Round 1 of the Democrat debate.

[Androidpk]

T-minus 17 minutes.

[Carsyn]

Hope to hell Bernie can close the gap some. And I'm eager to learn something about the other three. I'm a fairly hardcore Democrat, but I don't believe I can vote for her in the primary... the general -maybe-...

[Candor]

Announcer: Ladies and Gentlemen, the Democratic Candidates...

Whatshisname,
Whatshisname,
Whatshisname,
Mr Bernie Sanders,
And Her Royal Highness, Madame Hillary Clinton!

[Androidpk]

I'm sure he will. His polling numbers have been fantastic, he's drawing gigantic crowds all over the country and he raised a substantial amount of money this past quarter, just $2 million less than Hillary I believe. And thats with only 7 donor events compared to her 40+. He also has more individual donors than Obama had in 2008.

[Androidpk]

Announcer: Ladies and Gentlemen, the Democratic Candidates...

Whatshisname,
Whatshisname,
Whatshisname,
Socialist commie Bernie Sanders,
And the next president of the United States of America, Her Royal Highness, Madame Hillary Clinton!

Fixed

[ClydeR]

Trump will be live Tweeting the whole thing!



http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/rmi08a/trump-clinton-debate_tweet_zpskhitekmv.jpg

In other Trump news, he is hosting SNL (http://deadline.com/2015/10/donald-trump-saturday-night-live-host-november-7-1201579269/) on November 7.

[Carsyn]

Well I like Webb more than Chafee already. His opening was ten times better.

[Androidpk]

LOL @ Hillary flip flopping while she's flip flopping.

[Carsyn]

Wow Hillary ripped Bernie a new one on guns. I kinda like his moderate stance. Don't take my guns Hillary!

[Androidpk]

That was an incredibly weak rip.

[Kronius]

O'Malley's gun control law isn't worth the paper its written on. It has done nothing but made it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain firearms. Fuck that guy.

[ClydeR]

Was Clinton this good at debating in 2008, or does she just look good in comparison to the other four on the stage tonight?

[Warriorbird]

Well I like Webb more than Chafee already. His opening was ten times better.

Webb's by far my favorite Democratic candidate. He won't win.

[Tgo01]

It was quite amazing watching each and every one of those dumb fuckers running for president not understand the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act."

All of them but Bernie were like "HURR DURR! Gun makers aren't held accountable for anything! HURR DURR! They have special protection that no other business enjoys! HURR DURR! It's all Bernie's fault!"

I kept waiting for Sanders to say "Look, dumbfucks, that's not how the law works, you fucking simpletons." But instead he just went off on some stupid ass tangent so I can only surmise that he has no idea what the law is either so he didn't bother to clarify the details of it.

Here's a hint you dumb fucks: The "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act" does NOT make a gun maker immune to lawsuits.

My God. I've never seen so much fucking pandering in my life. Oh wait, that wasn't until one of the nobodies said "HURR DURR! Yes, I believe in 'common sense' gun control laws."

Seriously. WHO THE FUCK TAKES SOMEONE LIKE THAT EVEN REMOTELY SERIOUSLY? Oh right, their stupid base who are so stupid they probably need a government employee to tie their shoes for them in the morning.

Referring to a very controversial and highly debated topic as "common sense" is insulting to every human being's intelligence, but that's sort of the point isn't it? Democrats like to think their position is so superior and makes so much fucking sense that it's in fact "common sense" so they have already won the argument just by uttering those words.

Republican: Well here are my views.
Democrat: Yeah well, here are my views. My views are "common sense."
Republican: Well, that's great. I would love to debate this topic with y...
Democrat: Didn't you hear me, you fucking redneck who doesn't care about innocent people being murdered? My argument is "common sense"!!!!!

[Whirlin]

http://www.theonion.com/article/bernie-sanders-repeatedly-scolded-attempting-union-51537?utm_campaign=default&utm_medium=ShareTools&utm_source=facebook

[Tgo01]

I was pretty impressed with the tough questioning that I did see though. I thought for sure the questions would be like "What's your favorite color?" but that one guy was really taking them to tasks, even being like "Hey, you didn't even come close to answering my question, try again."

[Androidpk]

I was pretty impressed with the tough questioning that I did see though. I thought for sure the questions would be like "What's your favorite color?" but that one guy was really taking them to tasks, even being like "Hey, you didn't even come close to answering my question, try again."

Yeah, kudos to Cooper for not tossing softballs.

[Tgo01]

What a stupid ass question is "Do black lives matter, or do all lives matter?"

How is that even a fucking question?

Wow. I was actually somewhat impressed with this debate up until this stupid ass question passed the vetting process.

Talk about pandering.

[Androidpk]

http://www.theonion.com/article/bernie-sanders-repeatedly-scolded-attempting-union-51537?utm_campaign=default&utm_medium=ShareTools&utm_source=facebook

Awesome

[Taernath]

Webb's a pretty cool dude so far.


What a stupid ass question is "Do black lives matter, or do all lives matter?"

How is that even a fucking question?

Wow. I was actually somewhat impressed with this debate up until this stupid ass question passed the vetting process.

Talk about pandering.

Right? It's a softball question. Say 'all lives matter' and watch your run for president go down in racist flames!

[SashaFierce]

Webb: "I hope I get that much time." x10000000000000

lol

[Androidpk]

I'm liking Sanders and Webb. Not really feeling O'Malley and the other guy.

[Tgo01]

Every Democrat candidate platform:

Rich are evil
Tax rich more
Make everything free
Whites are racist so trust a white to close the racial divide

This debate right here is why I can't be a Democrat. It's so fucking pathetic and full of fucking pandering, it makes me sick. Literally. I'm heading to the toilet right now.

[Whirlin]

Every Democrat candidate platform:

Rich are evil
Tax rich more
Make everything free
Whites are racist so trust a white to close the racial divide

This debate right here is why I can't be a Democrat. It's so fucking pathetic and full of fucking pandering, it makes me sick. Literally. I'm heading to the toilet right now.
Glad you didn't watch the Republican debates then.

[Taernath]

I'm liking Sanders and Webb. Not really feeling O'Malley and the other guy.

Chafee, the Richard Dawkins lookalike?

Sanders is holding his own but hasn't dropped too many mics yet.

Clinton is a good speaker but goddamn is she smug.

[Tgo01]

Glad you didn't watch the Republican debates then.

I don't recall any Republican candidate saying all rich are evil and they were going to pull money out of their ass to make everything "free" but I suppose I might have missed that.

[Androidpk]

Yeah, Chafee, nice guy but seems too soft and not very presidential.

[Tgo01]

Did this dipshit just admit that he voted for something that he didn't really understand?

"It was my first week! 90 other people voted for it anyways! My dog ate my homework! I was sick! My wife left me! My cat was in the hospital!"

My God. Just nominate Hillary already, you all are pathetic.

[Taernath]

Never heard of Chafee before this and that's how I'll remember him now.

[Androidpk]

Never heard of Chafee before this and that's how I'll remember him now.

Who?

[Taernath]

Who?

The guy who looks like Dawkins and votes based on what everyone else is doing.

[drauz]

My God. Just nominate Hillary already, you all are pathetic.

Just nominate Trump already.

[ClydeR]

Clinton's performance in this debate may persuade Biden not to run.

[Tgo01]

Just nominate Trump already.

I actually support Ben Carson but I'm sure you'd never support him because you're a racist.

[Parkbandit]

I'm glad Hillary keeps reminding us in almost every response that she's a woman. I keep forgetting.

[Tgo01]

I'm glad Hillary keeps reminding us in almost every response that she's a woman. I keep forgetting.

She's a granddaughter AND a grandmother!

I swear my eyes were about to roll right outta my head when I heard that stupid shit.

[Taernath]

I like how on the 'how would your presidency be different from Obama's' question, Clinton seemed about to stop after saying that she is a woman, until Cooper pushed her further.

[Tgo01]

Did this dipshit just thank Facebook for sponsoring this debate after the entire debate consisted of saying how large companies are bad and are ruining the political process?

Too fucking funny.

Oh wait, he's the same guy who said "Well 90 other people voted for it so I did too! I'm a leader!"

[Androidpk]

I'm glad Hillary keeps reminding us in almost every response that she's a woman. I keep forgetting.

Do I need to remind you?

[drauz]

I actually support Ben Carson but I'm sure you'd never support him because you're a racist.

He's a young earth creationist, that's why I wouldn't support him.

[Tgo01]

He's a young earth creationist, that's why I wouldn't support him.

You spelled "He's black" wrong.

Fucking racist.

[Whirlin]

You spelled "He's black" wrong.

Fucking racist.
You're just jumping on his bandwagon so you can accuse people of being racist, cause you're always accused of being racist for hating Obama... racist.

[Geijon Khyree]

It was quite amazing watching each and every one of those dumb fuckers running for president not understand the "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act."

All of them but Bernie were like "HURR DURR! Gun makers aren't held accountable for anything! HURR DURR! They have special protection that no other business enjoys! HURR DURR! It's all Bernie's fault!"

I kept waiting for Sanders to say "Look, dumbfucks, that's not how the law works, you fucking simpletons." But instead he just went off on some stupid ass tangent so I can only surmise that he has no idea what the law is either so he didn't bother to clarify the details of it.

Here's a hint you dumb fucks: The "Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act" does NOT make a gun maker immune to lawsuits.

My God. I've never seen so much fucking pandering in my life. Oh wait, that wasn't until one of the nobodies said "HURR DURR! Yes, I believe in 'common sense' gun control laws."

Seriously. WHO THE FUCK TAKES SOMEONE LIKE THAT EVEN REMOTELY SERIOUSLY? Oh right, their stupid base who are so stupid they probably need a government employee to tie their shoes for them in the morning.

Referring to a very controversial and highly debated topic as "common sense" is insulting to every human being's intelligence, but that's sort of the point isn't it? Democrats like to think their position is so superior and makes so much fucking sense that it's in fact "common sense" so they have already won the argument just by uttering those words.

Republican: Well here are my views.
Democrat: Yeah well, here are my views. My views are "common sense."
Republican: Well, that's great. I would love to debate this topic with y...
Democrat: Didn't you hear me, you fucking redneck who doesn't care about innocent people being murdered? My argument is "common sense"!!!!! .

[Tgo01]

You're just jumping on his bandwagon so you can accuse people of being racist, cause you're always accused of being racist for hating Obama... racist.

That's only part of the reason I support him!

Besides, since when is it racist to use a black person to further one's own goals and ambitions? Racist.

[Tgo01]

.

Is that a "QFT" period, or a "WTF" period?

[drauz]

You spelled "He's black" wrong.

Fucking racist.

Oh yeah, well your face is racist!

[Shaps]

Where is the outrage for the millions of whites that were enslaved during the Barbary, Ottoman, Arab, and other slave trades! Reparations!

Whites deserve protected status and equal rights based upon the inhumane treatment of their ancestors!!

You're all a bunch of racists for not supporting equal rights and restitution!

[Shaps]

That's only part of the reason I support him!

Besides, since when is it racist to use a black person to further one's own goals and ambitions? Racist.

Apparently when you just want to harvest your crop. DUH. (It's a joke people, don't get all worked up)

[Androidpk]

Bernie won the debate with this bit


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOOfwN0iYxM

[Shaps]

Sadly I had hopes to hear something new. Literally, all I heard was... Everything should be free! You rich people pay for it!

As if 10% of the population, paying 75+% of the Federal taxes already is not enough. This is not about fair at this point, this is about selling socialism. Unfortunately, no one looks at history and realizes Socialism does not work.

If I was rich (which I'm not by any stretch of the imagination) and one of the people on stage got elected tonight.. I would just sell out.. liquidate everything, get it solvent into your bank account.. and stop working. Why bother. Your kids college will be paid for. Your healthcare will be paid for. You won't have to pay anything in taxes. And use your millions+ that you've earned (as if you keep working, that million+ a year you earn - you may keep 35 cents on the dollar of it), to relax.

[Androidpk]

Socialism doesn't work? Better tell that to the Nordic states!

[Shaps]

One of the craziest things I did hear tonight though.. was Clinton admitting what she did with the emails was wrong (by admitting "no the investigation or President Obamas comments on it" are not partisan based, etc. etc.)... Bernie Sanders defending her... pretty much saying the American people don't care about the integrity of the candidate, only what they're saying... and the crowd clapping.

He pretty much, and Hillary too, are literally saying to the American people... to NOT consider a persons character or integrity at all... only listen to what they say. Astounding really.

[Shaps]

Socialism doesn't work? Better tell that to the Nordic states!

They are immensly smaller than the US. They are also not world leaders. They are not a Super Power. They are not the most robust economic model ever created. They are not the most upwardly mobile friendly society with regards to personal development and potential.

What they are.. is protected by the hateful, evil, capitalistic US.. through multiple funding streams, military, political, and economic support.

Actually most of Europe is assisted by the US.

Want to take that away? Want to follow the model everyone else follows without someone to back us up? Because no one, and I mean no one.. will come to our aid when we collapse.. or god forbid ever attacked/invaded.

[Androidpk]

Funny guy as usual, shaps.

[Nephelem]

Socialism works ok if you limit immigration. Try moving to Norway or Switzerland without a degree, job, and substantial income. We will become more socialist while allowing an endless influx. Cause we rock at combining the worst of both capitalism and socialism.

[Androidpk]

One of the craziest things I did hear tonight though.. was Clinton admitting what she did with the emails was wrong (by admitting "no the investigation or President Obamas comments on it" are not partisan based, etc. etc.)... Bernie Sanders defending her... pretty much saying the American people don't care about the integrity of the candidate, only what they're saying... and the crowd clapping.

He pretty much, and Hillary too, are literally saying to the American people... to NOT consider a persons character or integrity at all... only listen to what they say. Astounding really.

No, that isn't what he meant by that. It was all about focusing on the issues that are really important: the economy, foreign policy and climate change.

[Androidpk]

I don't really think it matters as a form of socialism already exists within the US and as certain technologies continue to mature we'll move even further towards it. 3D printing/engineering, mass use of robotics and artificial intelligence systems.. think about all the job types that will be lost in the coming decades.

[Shaps]

No, that isn't what he meant by that. It was all about focusing on the issues that are really important: the economy, foreign policy and climate change.

You do realize.. you just proved my point. So in your opinion.. a persons integrity and character does not matter when electing a President. Got ya.

[Androidpk]

People want to hear about the issues at hand, not some Fox news drama.

[Tgo01]

I also didn't like Sanders' pandering about Clinton's emails, but it was more because just like fucking Hillary, he was telling us what should be important to Americans.

That's how Hillary initially defended herself on the email scandal, by downplaying it and claiming only the media cares about it, but as her polls numbers showed Americans care about it also.

Politicians need to stop fucking telling voters what they should and should not care about. How someone who is running for president possibly handled classified information is important. It's not like we're focusing on her fucking hair color or something.

[Shaps]

What's sad. If she were any other normal government worker.. she'd be in jail and fined out the ass already.

That is what is so astounding. The blantant double standard, just because of her name. You would think Democrats, who always claim they "are for the middle class working people!" and to "make the elites pay!".. would be more ashamed of her actions and demand equality of the law. But... we get the opposite sadly.

[Thondalar]

What's sad. If she were any other normal government worker.. she'd be in jail and fined out the ass already.

Unless she worked for the IRS.

[Thondalar]

Funny guy as usual, shaps.

Off-hand dismissal of facts as usual, pk.

[Shaps]

Unless she worked for the IRS.

Good point.. contempt of Congressional Inquiry and just plead the fifth.. you're fine.

[Shaps]

"shut up you dumb bitch"

A nice reputation comment I got. Seems they (as they could be a man or woman)..

1. hates women (from the bitch reference)

2. lacks intelligence (from the shut up comment.. probably because he/she is confused and offended that their heroes are liars and cheats.. and they can't think of anything to say in their defense)

3. is unimaginative (from the dumb comment.. as there are plenty more offensive things to say about someone)

Please try again nameless admirer!

[Warriorbird]

Every Democrat candidate platform:

Rich are evil
Tax rich more
Make everything free
Whites are racist so trust a white to close the racial divide

This debate right here is why I can't be a Democrat. It's so fucking pathetic and full of fucking pandering, it makes me sick. Literally. I'm heading to the toilet right now.

This'd be edgy and interesting if it wasn't almost entirely disconnected from say, the entire Webb/O'Malley candidacies (not that either will win).

[Parkbandit]

I like how on the 'how would your presidency be different from Obama's' question, Clinton seemed about to stop after saying that she is a woman, until Cooper pushed her further.

Seriously.

"Of course it would be different, because I'm a woman!"

[Parkbandit]

Bernie won the debate with this bit


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOOfwN0iYxM

This is just another reason why he won't beat her... because he doesn't want to.

[Wrathbringer]

Only the lazy, immoral and unintelligent vote democrap. LOL @ anyone who actually wasted hours of their lives watching these idiots.

[Wrathbringer]

This'd be edgy and interesting if it wasn't almost entirely disconnected from say, the entire Webb/O'Malley candidacies (not that either will win).

Shut up already.

[Parkbandit]

This debate right here is why I can't be a Democrat. It's so fucking pathetic and full of fucking pandering, it makes me sick. Literally. I'm heading to the toilet right now.

Let's be honest... Republicans do the same exact things. If you aren't a Bible carrying, NRA supporting, vowing to lower taxes, etc... don't bother running.

[Androidpk]

Off-hand dismissal of facts as usual, pk.

Facts.. lol

[Taernath]

Seriously.

"Of course it would be different, because I'm a woman!"

How about her 'I'm proud the republicans are my enemies' answer?

They're half of the government and you have to work with them later on, maybe you shouldn't antagonize them.

[Androidpk]

How about her 'I'm proud the republicans are my enemies' answer?

They're half of the government and you have to work with them later on, maybe you shouldn't antagonize them.

Seriously. Partisan politics has worked so well for this country.

[Taernath]

I knew I saw this in a panning shot.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRPZjLoWEAA9S4B.jpg:large

[Tsk Tsk]

I thought it was a great debate.

Webb was entertaining as hell and I was sad Anderson kept cutting him off. His highlight was that he casually mentioned he'd killed a guy when asked what enemy he was most proud of. I think he has the most odds of attracting republican votes with most of his views as coming across as conservative. He reminded me of Red Forman. He didn't handle a lot of questions very well and potential is there but I don't see him making the cut.

Bernie, oh Bernie. The man of big ideas but his biggest problem, that Webb addressed, is that they're easier said than done. Even if he's elected I don't think he'd be able to accomplish what he thinks and he hasn't laid out anything I'd consider a solid workable plan. Breaking up the banks is one thing but saying he's going to get at the top 1% by increasing payroll taxes, well, I don't think that's going to get at as much money as he thinks. You'd have to get at the money that's already theirs, the 1%'s and I don't think he can. He also needs to come up with some new things to say as he just kept bringing everything back to how corrupt and terrible America is and how he's going to solve everything with taking money from the 1%.

Hiliary, as much as I'm surprised to be saying won this debate. That woman is a hell of a wordsmith and regardless of a few comments in this thread so far, I really don't feel like she played the woman card too much. I think twice? Either way, it'd be dumb for her not to bring it up and drum up some excitement as electing something 'different' that clearly worked for Obama. The thing that bugged me the most about her though was that she always had that smug/amused look on her face like, "Aw, wasn't that a cute question?". She is a strong debater and never lost her cool. She had experience and knew how to answer every question with the right words and support.

O'Malley I think gained the most steam from this debate since I don't feel many knew who he was yet was a great debater. His biggest problem will come from being Governor of Maryland but leaving it in shambles. He had a lot of great answers but his track record says, "I can't get shit done." even though the entire debate he kept saying he already did everything talked about in the debate. He also kind of fell into a common problem Bernie has and putting himself on repeat about the "plan for a clean electric grid by 2050" we get it, bro. He was rather smug about gun control and tackling the NRA and he DID do something about it, problem is it didn't work for Maryland.

Chaffee, well this guy was just happy to be there. Haha. Not wasting any more time on that guy.

All in all, I thought it was honestly a great debate. We were able to see clear differences between candidates and they were able to disagree with each other without going at each others throats. They were much more poised than the republican debates I've watched and honestly didn't spend the majority of the time just republican bashing. Hell, I think Trump was brought up maybe once. That appeals to me.

[Tsk Tsk]

I knew I saw this in a panning shot.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRPZjLoWEAA9S4B.jpg:large

I knew I saw a wizard in the audience!

[Androidpk]

All in all, I thought it was honestly a great debate. We were able to see clear differences between candidates and they were able to disagree with each other without going at each others throats. They were much more poised than the republican debates I've watched and honestly didn't spend the majority of the time just republican bashing. Hell, I think Trump was brought up maybe once. That appeals to me.

It was definitely better than the clown circus performance of the GOP debates.

[Warriorbird]

Shut up already.

Is it the sound of whining? Of course.

[Thondalar]

Facts.. lol

See? pro.

[Tgo01]

Let's be honest... Republicans do the same exact things. If you aren't a Bible carrying, NRA supporting, vowing to lower taxes, etc... don't bother running.

Republicans do indeed pander but they usually don't make it so obvious.

True, most of the Republican field are Christian but they've always been Christian. Ben Carson was even baptized twice, both at a very young age. It's not like he suddenly become religious a few years ago in order to make it in politics, unlike Obama.

Trump also doesn't even talk about his religion all that much and he's still polling the highest from what I've seen.

I'm also pretty sure Carly doesn't talk much about religion and she's been rising a lot lately.

Also talking about lowering taxes is a legitimate political principal. To be fair so is talking about raising taxes. However Democrats are all too eager to talk about raising taxes while also talking about how evil the rich are, how the rich are ruining this country, how the rich aren't "paying their fair share", and even talking about specific rich people in order to tear them down. That is all 100% pure pandering.

I'm surprised the candidates last night didn't literally refer to the rich as "evil" but they might as well have. How many times does Sander specifically mention Donald Trump and the Koch Brothers? How many times last night did the candidates mention the rich, and "fair share", and yadda yadda.

Same thing happened last night with their kerfuffle over gun control. Yes, it's a perfectly valid political position to want to implement more gun control measures, but it was much more than that. It was "common sense" this, making up total bullshit about how gun companies can't be sued, and using the shootings to further their own agenda.

Then you have Clinton flip flopping so much that she was flip flopping while she was flip flopping. Pandering to her own pandering.

I mean shit, they were still talking about Bush last night. They are still pulling the Bush card 8 years later.

[Parkbandit]

Republicans do indeed pander but they usually don't make it so obvious.

LOL please tell me you're just trolling.


True, most of the Republican field are Christian but they've always been Christian. Ben Carson was even baptized twice, both at a very young age. It's not like he suddenly become religious a few years ago in order to make it in politics, unlike Obama.

Trump also doesn't even talk about his religion all that much and he's still polling the highest from what I've seen.

Trump did and is doing the exact same thing Obama did... except the part where he was going to church prior to the election.


I'm also pretty sure Carly doesn't talk much about religion and she's been rising a lot lately.

She does.


Also talking about lowering taxes is a legitimate political principal. To be fair so is talking about raising taxes. However Democrats are all too eager to talk about raising taxes while also talking about how evil the rich are, how the rich are ruining this country, how the rich aren't "paying their fair share", and even talking about specific rich people in order to tear them down. That is all 100% pure pandering.

Raising taxes is just as legitimate as lowering taxes. They both pander.


I'm surprised the candidates last night didn't literally refer to the rich as "evil" but they might as well have. How many times does Sander specifically mention Donald Trump and the Koch Brothers? How many times last night did the candidates mention the rich, and "fair share", and yadda yadda.

Same thing happened last night with their kerfuffle over gun control. Yes, it's a perfectly valid political position to want to implement more gun control measures, but it was much more than that. It was "common sense" this, making up total bullshit about how gun companies can't be sued, and using the shootings to further their own agenda.

Then you have Clinton flip flopping so much that she was flip flopping while she was flip flopping. Pandering to her own pandering.

I don't see the difference between the Republicans pandering to the NRA or the Democrats pandering to the anti-gun crowd.


I mean shit, they were still talking about Bush last night. They are still pulling the Bush card 8 years later.

I did laugh at that last night. My favorite was Clinton saying that the economy is always better with a Democrat in the White House.

Lol, wut?

[Buckwheet]

I don't subscribe to the economy under a president thing. But its not Hilary's. It has been written about several times like here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/02/1127055/-Which-party-is-best-for-the-economy-It-s-not-even-close#

There are lots of pretty graphs that people can use to argue just about anything. The most popular from my republican friends is that policy takes years to come around so the growth rates up to a democrat are based on the policies of a republican or two before them. The dems will tell you that its the policies they inact while in office taking immediate effect.

Who is right? I have no idea. But the main point I am trying to make is this this isn't something new she is just regurgitating it.

[Euler]

It is a fact that the disparity of wealth is worse now between citizens than ever has been in the history of the country. The pay gap between a CEO and the guy sweeping the CEO's floor is absurd. Not saying that the CEO shouldn't earn more, of course she should, but the gap is unprecedented.

Also, socialism is really good. I would never move back to the states if I could help it. The only time i would ever tell you socialism sucks is to keep you from coming here and ruining it.










Also, you assumed CEO was going to be a man. Sexist.

[Parkbandit]

It is a fact that the disparity of wealth is worse now between citizens than ever has been in the history of the country. The pay gap between a CEO and the guy sweeping the CEO's floor is absurd. Not saying that the CEO shouldn't earn more, of course she should, but the gap is unprecedented.

Also, socialism is really good. I would never move back to the states if I could help it. The only time i would ever tell you socialism sucks is to keep you from coming here and ruining it.

Also, you assumed CEO was going to be a man. Sexist.

I agree.. Socialism is a great system.... right up to the point you run out of those evil rich bastards' money.. then the whole system goes to shit.

[Tgo01]

Trump did and is doing the exact same thing Obama did... except the part where he was going to church prior to the election.

I'm not a huge fan of Trump.


Raising taxes is just as legitimate as lowering taxes. They both pander.

Yes, raising taxes and lowering taxes are legitimate political positions. I don't feel having a particular opinion necessarily means one is pandering.

To me pandering isn't saying "We need to raise taxes in order to blah blah blah." To me pandering is saying things like the rich need to pay their fair share, the rich are making this country worse, almost all new wealth is going to the mega rich (an outright lie by Sanders), naming specific rich people as examples of ruining this country, and shit like that.

A comparable Republican pandering on this position would be to say the poor are ruining this country and to name specific poor people as examples. I don't recall a Republican ever calling out a specific poor family and saying "This person is ruining this country." Republicans usually say they want to create new jobs to help poor people out of being, y'know, poor.

I think an example of pandering was Romney's 47% thing and I even gave Romney a lot of shit for that comment.


I don't see the difference between the Republicans pandering to the NRA or the Democrats pandering to the anti-gun crowd.

Being in favor of self defense and defending the second amendment isn't necessarily pandering, neither is suggesting additional gun control laws. When the Democrats went into pandering territory last night was when they all blasted the NRA, that's like the typical liberal rant these days, to say the NRA is the face of all evil. Fuck, Michael Moore even did one of his stupid documentaries on the NRA.

I think an example of Republican pandering would be to say shit like "The Democrats want to take your guns!" Come to think of it though I can't think of an example off the top of my head of a Republican actually saying shit like this. Not saying they haven't, just can't think of an example. This seems more like an invention of Democrats to belittle Republicans by sarcastically claiming they think Democrats want to take their guns.

[Parkbandit]

I'm not a huge fan of Trump.

He's pandering to the Religious right.


Yes, raising taxes and lowering taxes are legitimate political positions. I don't feel having a particular opinion necessarily means one is pandering.

To me pandering isn't saying "We need to raise taxes in order to blah blah blah." To me pandering is saying things like the rich need to pay their fair share, the rich are making this country worse, almost all new wealth is going to the mega rich (an outright lie by Sanders), naming specific rich people as examples of ruining this country, and shit like that.

A comparable Republican pandering on this position would be to say the poor are ruining this country and to name specific poor people as examples. I don't recall a Republican ever calling out a specific poor family and saying "This person is ruining this country." Republicans usually say they want to create new jobs to help poor people out of being, y'know, poor.

I think an example of pandering was Romney's 47% thing and I even gave Romney a lot of shit for that comment.

Being in favor of self defense and defending the second amendment isn't necessarily pandering, neither is suggesting additional gun control laws. When the Democrats went into pandering territory last night was when they all blasted the NRA, that's like the typical liberal rant these days, to say the NRA is the face of all evil. Fuck, Michael Moore even did one of his stupid documentaries on the NRA.

I think an example of Republican pandering would be to say shit like "The Democrats want to take your guns!" Come to think of it though I can't think of an example off the top of my head of a Republican actually saying shit like this. Not saying they haven't, just can't think of an example. This seems more like an invention of Democrats to belittle Republicans by sarcastically claiming they think Democrats want to take their guns.

Pandering is the "act of expressing one's views in accordance with the likes of a group to which one is attempting to appeal. The term is most notably associated with politics" You don't have to have a specific "evil" target when you pander.

Both parties pander to specific groups.. especially in the primaries. They both go hard to the edge of their constituency to gain that nomination, then mosey on back towards the middle to gain the almighty "Independent" voter.

[Androidpk]

Tgo your trolling is more apparent than a Wrathbringer shart.

[Androidpk]

Regardless of my feelings for the candidates it is truly disgusting how far CNN is willing to bend the narrative in Hillary's favor. Both CNN and Facebook had a poll up asking who won the debate and Sanders was hovering around 80% until earlier today when CNN took down the polls and put up an article declaring Hillary the clear winner. American journalism has truly fallen to a new low.

[Taernath]

Clinton News Network.

I don't know if you can say anyone really 'won', as they had different things they were aiming for. Webb got his name out. Sanders wasn't interrupted by a black lives matter protester. Clinton was able to smugly dodge every difficult question. The other two didn't spontaneously combust.

[Viekn]

Regardless of my feelings for the candidates it is truly disgusting how far CNN is willing to bend the narrative in Hillary's favor. Both CNN and Facebook had a poll up asking who won the debate and Sanders was hovering around 80% until earlier today when CNN took down the polls and put up an article declaring Hillary the clear winner. American journalism has truly fallen to a new low.

I noticed this as well and thought it was pretty shitty how obviously in favor of Hilary they were with their headlines. It's a shame of how skeptical we now have to be of major news outlets.

A bit off the topic and not a scientific method of course, but the way I try to decide who I like for a leadership position is this (this applies to both Dems and Repubs, but using Dems as an example in this case): If I were in a college course and the professor paired up each student with another classmate, who would I rather work with? In the case of Hilary vs. Sanders, it'd be Sanders 100%. I feel like Hilary would allow me to do all the work, lie to me and tell me our presentation was a week later than it actually was, then present the info as her own and throw me under the bus for not being there to help her.

To me, that's how world leaders will see them as well. And that's important.

[Androidpk]

Well CNN is owned by Time Warner and Time Warner "donates" a shit-ton of money to Hillary.

By the way here us the US CNN headline versus the international headline.

http://i.imgur.com/kGGvf6v.jpg

[Kembal]

I don't like watching primary debates, either Democratic or Republican. It is a bunch of pandering to the party's base...PB nailed that. The general election debates are more illuminating.

I don't know if anyone won the debate (I didn't watch live, just been reading and watched a couple of clips), but I know who lost: Biden. He's not coming in now, after Clinton reset her narrative.

[Parkbandit]

Clinton News Network.

I don't know if you can say anyone really 'won', as they had different things they were aiming for. Webb got his name out. Sanders wasn't interrupted by a black lives matter protester. Clinton was able to smugly dodge every difficult question. The other two didn't spontaneously combust.

Clinton News Network or not.. Sanders gave her the win on a silver platter.

Chaffe honestly looked retarded.

O'Malley did nothing to make him stand out.. he's toast.

Webb, the most "normal" guy on the stage looked like an absolute fish out of water next to those crazy 4... so he's done.

All Hail The Queen.

[Androidpk]

I don't think he gave her the win at all. Sanders leadvin Google search results throughout the debate and when he made that e-mail comment it skyrocketed. He also got more new Twitter followers than the rest of the candidates combined. And he raised a cool million dollars afterwards.

[Tgo01]

Yeah I called this Hillary's win like on page 2 of the comments here. Because she did.

That one dipshit said he voted for the Patriot Act because everyone else was voting for it anyways.

That one idiot was sounding like a crybaby "Wahh! I need more time!" Seriously, I only caught some of the debate and he mentioned something about time like 3 times. And his answer to the question of which enemy he has made during his political career he was most proud of was stupid. The guy who threw a grenade at him during a war? What? It's great that you want to remind everyone you are a veteran and served during a war and all but that has nothing to do with your political career.

And the other guy was so forgettable that I don't even remember much about his answers other than his rant about the NRA and Sanders' stance on gun control.

The debate was basically between Sanders and Hillary and Sanders often sounded like a senile, old cranky man while Hillary managed to keep her composure during the whole debate. Also the other three dipshits spent more time attacking Sanders and each other rather than attacking Hillary. It's like they forgot who is in the lead at the moment, or maybe they remember and are trying to score brownie points with Hillary now by knocking out her closest competitor.

That one guy was even asked about his comments about how Hillary's email scandal was important but seemed to want to back away from the question because the crowd in the room obviously wanted to give Hillary a pass on her emails.

[Shaps]

Really great points made by all over the past day. Enjoying reading everyones thoughts on the debate last night.

-I agree the news networks (print and media) seem to all have a political leaning now. Both Liberal and Conservative. I'm trying to think of a simple fact based news organization. I tend to read alot of foreign news, and that always seems more direct than ours.

-I definitely think Hillary won the debate. Her delivery was, for the most part, excellent. But only for her talking points. She fumbled badly when faced with a follow up question most of the time, or deflected or outright said "No" to answering a real question. The rest.. yea.

-At this point in our history... and the way our political system is... I want the most honest candidate to prevail. One that will implement the laws on the books, regardless of who or what party it effects. One that will actually adhere to the fundamental separation of powers and their implementation to achieve the changes they believe in. If there were someone like that, regardless Democrat or Republican... that is who I would vote for. Unfortunately, a person with those qualities would never survive the process to make it all the way to the Office.

[Viekn]

So to PB's, PK's, TGO's and Shaps' points above...

I think it appears like Sanders gave her the win because he's not "eloquent or polished" like Hilary is. But I think in reality that's what makes him a better candidate. He doesn't come off as pandering because whether he knows how to pander or not, I just don't think he gives a fuck. And I respect that about a person; although to a lot of people it comes off as "oh, he didn't win because he didn't sound as smooth as Hilary". But one could argue that also hurts is electability; which is unfortunate.


-At this point in our history... and the way our political system is... I want the most honest candidate to prevail. One that will implement the laws on the books, regardless of who or what party it effects. One that will actually adhere to the fundamental separation of powers and their implementation to achieve the changes they believe in. If there were someone like that, regardless Democrat or Republican... that is who I would vote for. Unfortunately, a person with those qualities would never survive the process to make it all the way to the Office.

I really agree with this, and ignoring delivery, staring at the camera, overall appearance, etc, here is who I think reflects this stance the most...(in no particular order)

Sanders
Cruz
Carson
Rand
Chrisite

Close runners up
Rubio
Kasich

[Androidpk]

I enjoyed when Hillary was asked about her vote for the Iraq war and her response was Obama trusted her enough to be Secretary of State. Being associated with his administration's foreign policy is not what I would count as a good thing.

[Androidpk]

Basing who won off of how smooth of a talker they were is ludicrous. We don't need a snake oil salesman. We need a leader with foresight. Someone that is aheadvofthe curve, especially when it really matters. Yes some of you are complaining that the the candidates brought up GWB last night but they had every right to do so considering what a huge disaster the Iraq war was and how it continues to resonate throughout the Middle East.

[Kembal]

I enjoyed when Hillary was asked about her vote for the Iraq war and her response was Obama trusted her enough to be Secretary of State. Being associated with his administration's foreign policy is not what I would count as a good thing.

For your average Democratic primary voter, it would be. The only thing that all of these candidates are going to oppose of Obama's is anything free trade related, because the party has lost its mind and thinks free trade is inherently bad.

[Kembal]

Clinton News Network or not.. Sanders gave her the win on a silver platter.

Chaffe honestly looked retarded.

O'Malley did nothing to make him stand out.. he's toast.

Webb, the most "normal" guy on the stage looked like an absolute fish out of water next to those crazy 4... so he's done.

All Hail The Queen.

O'Malley's running for VP. I don't think he'll get it.

[Androidpk]

For your average Democratic primary voter, it would be. The only thing that all of these candidates are going to oppose of Obama's is anything free trade related, because the party has lost its mind and thinks free trade is inherently bad.

Libya? Disaster.
Syria? Disaster.
Iraq? Disaster.
Russian relations? Disaster.

[ClydeR]

If I were in a college course and the professor paired up each student with another classmate, who would I rather work with? In the case of Hilary vs. Sanders, it'd be Sanders 100%. I feel like Hilary would allow me to do all the work, lie to me and tell me our presentation was a week later than it actually was, then present the info as her own and throw me under the bus for not being there to help her.

No, Clinton would do all the work herself and wouldn't let you touch anything because your incompetence might jeopardize her perfect 4.0 GPA. She might -- might -- let you view the final work product if you promise not to breathe on it. Just stay out of her way and consider yourself lucky. You'll definitely get an A, but when you think back on it in the future you will feel shame. If Sanders is your partner, he'll make you do half the work and he'll ask your opinion every step of the way. You won't get an A, because Clinton and her partner will get the only A, but you'll have fun and learn something. Do you want an A, or do you want to have fun and learn something?

[ClydeR]

This debate should be sobering to those Republicans who are giddy at the prospect of nominating a weak debater, like Ben Carson or Jeb Bush. The Republican candidates capable of debating Clinton are Trump, Fiorina, Rubio and, possibly, Christie.

[Viekn]

No, Clinton would do all the work herself and wouldn't let you touch anything because your incompetence might jeopardize her perfect 4.0 GPA. She might -- might -- let you view the final work product if you promise not to breathe on it. Just stay out of her way and consider yourself lucky. You'll definitely get an A, but when you think back on it in the future you will feel shame. If Sanders is your partner, he'll make you do half the work and he'll ask your opinion every step of the way. You won't get an A, because Clinton and her partner will get the only A, but you'll have fun and learn something. Do you want an A, or do you want to have fun and learn something?

I want to have fun and learn something. Fuck the establishment with their "A's" and "B's".


The Republican candidates capable of debating Clinton are Trump, Fiorina, Rubio and, possibly, Christie.

As much as I don't think our next president should come down to only a debate winner, I would actually like to see a debate with only these people.

[Latrinsorm]

That's how Hillary initially defended herself on the email scandal, by downplaying it and claiming only the media cares about it, but as her polls numbers showed Americans care about it also.But Bernie also says they don't matter and his poll numbers are up. Riddle me that one, Terrence!
Where is the outrage for the millions of whites that were enslaved during the Barbary, Ottoman, Arab, and other slave trades! Reparations!You are free to (try and) become a citizen of the Arab country of your choice and campaign for reparations, you're SOL with the Ottomans though and the Barbary pirates were never a political unit. The United States should be held responsible only for the United States slave trade, no?
As if 10% of the population, paying 75+% of the Federal taxes already is not enough. This is not about fair at this point, this is about selling socialism. Unfortunately, no one looks at history and realizes Socialism does not work.Would it interest you to learn that in the 1950s and early 60s the rich were taxed at rates over twice (http://eml.berkeley.edu//~saez/piketty-saezJEP07taxprog.pdf) as high as today (page 13), and that we enjoyed higher real GDP growth under that tax regime than any before or since? Please note that I am not commenting on "high taxes = socialism", merely pointing out the fact that "high taxes = good" accurately describes American history of the past century or so.
There are lots of pretty graphs that people can use to argue just about anything. The most popular from my republican friends is that policy takes years to come around so the growth rates up to a democrat are based on the policies of a republican or two before them. The dems will tell you that its the policies they inact while in office taking immediate effect. Who is right? I have no idea.This is something I've been meaning to look into so here goes. In the following table, 0 years signifies that the real GDP growth of for example 2009 is attributed to Obama, 1 year makes 2009 Bush, 2 years makes 2010 Bush, and so on. Gap is given in Democrat average - Republican average, and values are taken from 1948 to present.


years gap
0 1.35
1 0.77
2 -0.12
3 0.63
4 1.04
5 0.69
6 0.43
7 0.14
8 -0.50
You can make of that what you will.

[ClydeR]

This is something I've been meaning to look into so here goes. In the following table, 0 years signifies that the real GDP growth of for example 2009 is attributed to Obama, 1 year makes 2009 Bush, 2 years makes 2010 Bush, and so on. Gap is given in Democrat average - Republican average, and values are taken from 1948 to present.


years gap
0 1.35
1 0.77
2 -0.12
3 0.63
4 1.04
5 0.69
6 0.43
7 0.14
8 -0.50
You can make of that what you will.

There's only 8 years. How can it be 1948 to the present? And what are these averages of? Average GDP growth for members of a particular political party? You need to elaborate.

[Androidpk]

Are you seriously having a conversation with yourself, Latrin? Seek (more) mental health assistance immediately.

[Taernath]

This debate should be sobering to those Republicans who are giddy at the prospect of nominating a weak debater, like Ben Carson or Jeb Bush. The Republican candidates capable of debating Clinton are Trump, Fiorina, Rubio and, possibly, Christie.

Only Fiorina or Rubio have a chance in a debate.

[Viekn]

Only Fiorina or Rubio have a chance in a debate.

Why not Christie?

[Androidpk]

I don't think any of the republicans have a shot.

[Taernath]

Why not Christie?

I haven't seen anything noteworthy of him in the past debates. He doesn't seem presidential, but kind of a blowhard, like Trump-lite.

[Androidpk]

One another thing, Hillary straight up lied with her statement on Edward Snowden. She said he could have been a whistleblower and gone that route, even though she KNOWS he being a national security contractor, wasn't afforded any such protections.

[Androidpk]

Courtesy of Chris Matthews

http://i.imgur.com/pmGYpD1.jpg

[Parkbandit]

I don't think he gave her the win at all. Sanders leadvin Google search results throughout the debate and when he made that e-mail comment it skyrocketed. He also got more new Twitter followers than the rest of the candidates combined. And he raised a cool million dollars afterwards.

He gave it to her. On a silver platter.

Politics is war... and he's woefully unprepared or woefully unwilling to engage.

[Androidpk]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/14/hillary-clinton/clinton-says-nsa-leaker-snowden-failed-use-whistle/

[Parkbandit]

Really great points made by all over the past day. Enjoying reading everyones thoughts on the debate last night.

-I agree the news networks (print and media) seem to all have a political leaning now. Both Liberal and Conservative. I'm trying to think of a simple fact based news organization. I tend to read alot of foreign news, and that always seems more direct than ours.

-I definitely think Hillary won the debate. Her delivery was, for the most part, excellent. But only for her talking points. She fumbled badly when faced with a follow up question most of the time, or deflected or outright said "No" to answering a real question. The rest.. yea.

-At this point in our history... and the way our political system is... I want the most honest candidate to prevail. One that will implement the laws on the books, regardless of who or what party it effects. One that will actually adhere to the fundamental separation of powers and their implementation to achieve the changes they believe in. If there were someone like that, regardless Democrat or Republican... that is who I would vote for. Unfortunately, a person with those qualities would never survive the process to make it all the way to the Office.

I don't think she was actually as good as you are making it sound... but more that the other 4 were just that bad.

[Parkbandit]

So to PB's, PK's, TGO's and Shaps' points above...

I think it appears like Sanders gave her the win because he's not "eloquent or polished" like Hilary is. But I think in reality that's what makes him a better candidate. He doesn't come off as pandering because whether he knows how to pander or not, I just don't think he gives a fuck. And I respect that about a person; although to a lot of people it comes off as "oh, he didn't win because he didn't sound as smooth as Hilary". But one could argue that also hurts is electability; which is unfortunate.



I really agree with this, and ignoring delivery, staring at the camera, overall appearance, etc, here is who I think reflects this stance the most...(in no particular order)

Sanders
Cruz
Carson
Rand
Chrisite

Close runners up
Rubio
Kasich

I don't disagree with you. I think Sanders was probably the most honest politician on that stage... and Hillary the most dishonest.

Hillary will still easily win.

[Parkbandit]

O'Malley's running for VP. I don't think he'll get it.

No way. One of the biggest knocks on this group is that they are all white. The VP will either be African American or Hispanic American. Hillary will focus group it to death.

[Androidpk]

He gave it to her. On a silver platter.

Politics is war... and he's woefully unprepared or woefully unwilling to engage.

http://i.imgur.com/pmGYpD1.jpg

[Atlanteax]

http://media.cagle.com/139/2015/10/14/170046_600.jpg

Webb seems to be the most qualified Democrat candidate.

[Parkbandit]

Libya? Disaster.

What? Gaddafi is gone! WIN!!



Syria? Disaster.
What?? RED LINE = WIN!


Iraq? Disaster.

WHAT!? BUSH'S FAULT and they knew the surge wouldn't work. WIN!



Russian relations? Disaster.

WHAT!? Remember the reset? Win!!

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/53f72aa169bedd284d6da163-960/ap090306017956.jpg

[Parkbandit]

http://i.imgur.com/pmGYpD1.jpg

Oh, I forgot that Twitter and Facebook and Google determines who wins the nomination.

Good to know.

[Androidpk]

Oh, I forgot that Twitter and Facebook and Google determines who wins the nomination.

Good to know.

It's far more relevant that what pundits have to say.

[Wrathbringer]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/14/hillary-clinton/clinton-says-nsa-leaker-snowden-failed-use-whistle/

Snowden should "face the music" but she should get pass after pass after pass, and she obviously has no clue (shocker) about whistleblower protections. Got it.

[Kembal]

No way. One of the biggest knocks on this group is that they are all white. The VP will either be African American or Hispanic American. Hillary will focus group it to death.

Agreed. If Rubio gets the nomination, it'll be a Hispanic, knowing the Clinton team. My guess would be Julian Castro, HUD Secretary. (coincidentally, she's picking up his endorsement today...I guess he's a superdelegate for some reason? Kind of strange.)

[Kembal]

Libya? Disaster.
Syria? Disaster.
Iraq? Disaster.
Russian relations? Disaster.

Your average Democratic primary voter will likely not blame Obama for anything except Libya. (Let's be clear, this isn't my own personal opinion.) Just saying that Clinton loses nothing by tying herself to Obama during the primary.

[Parkbandit]

It's far more relevant that what pundits have to say.

If they were "more relevant", Ron Paul would have been elected President.

[Warriorbird]

Agreed. If Rubio gets the nomination, it'll be a Hispanic, knowing the Clinton team. My guess would be Julian Castro, HUD Secretary. (coincidentally, she's picking up his endorsement today...I guess he's a superdelegate for some reason? Kind of strange.)

I think it might even be Castro if somebody else gets the nom. Hispanic votes are the ultimate battle.

[Androidpk]

Your average Democratic primary voter will likely not blame Obama for anything except Libya. (Let's be clear, this isn't my own personal opinion.) Just saying that Clinton loses nothing by tying herself to Obama during the primary.

Ultimately you are correct. I dount the average democrat even realizes what happened and what continues to happen in Libya. Which is why it is a real tragedy that the media in general have turned from the fourth column of government to political party propaganda mouthpieces.

Cash is king in the land of the blind.

[Latrinsorm]

Cash is king in the land of the blind.So now you're picking on a one-eyed man? Real nice, Andy. Real nice.

[~Rocktar~]

Ultimately you are correct. I dount the average democrat even realizes what happened and what continues to happen in Libya. Which is why it is a real tragedy that the media in general have turned from the fourth column of government to political party propaganda mouthpieces.

Cash is king in the land of the blind.

This is nothing new. The mainstream media has been in the back pocket of Liberal/Socialists since before Stalin. Walter Duranty anyone?

[Androidpk]

This is nothing new. The mainstream media has been in the back pocket of Liberal/Socialists since before Stalin. Walter Duranty anyone?

You're mistaken if you don't think conservatives have a hand in the cookie jar as well.

[~Rocktar~]

You're mistaken if you don't think conservatives have a hand in the cookie jar as well.

There is a difference in having an hand in the jar and owning the jar, the store, the cookie factory and the field where the wheat for the cookie flour is grown.

[Androidpk]

There is a difference in having an hand in the jar and owning the jar, the store, the cookie factory and the field where the wheat for the cookie flour is grown.

The end result is influence and miney, thus political ideology isn't really the issueat hand.

[TheRoseLady]

If they were "more relevant", Ron Paul would have been elected President.

I came on to snag a few of my recipes from the filing cabinet and KNEW that you would be here in the political threads. :lol:

I am pleasantly surprised though to see Warriorbird and Latrinsorm still posting. ClydeR not so much. :howudoing:

[Latrinsorm]

To be fair, though, two of those are the same person.

(Myself and Parkbandit.)

[Androidpk]

Latrin and ClydeR are the same person.

[Latrinsorm]

That would mean Parkbandit and ClydeR are the same person. Are you suffering from double secret psychosis or something?

[TheRoseLady]

LMAO

:heart:

[Warriorbird]

I came on to snag a few of my recipes from the filing cabinet and KNEW that you would be here in the political threads. :lol:

I am pleasantly surprised though to see Warriorbird and Latrinsorm still posting. ClydeR not so much. :howudoing:

:D Heya!

[TheRoseLady]

Clearly not the right place to ask this, but how do you give Rep again?

[Latrinsorm]

The six pointed star icon at the bottom of the post, to the right of "Blog this Post". Also, we have blogs now! Mine is the best. (Astray's is okay too.)

[Androidpk]

Lincoln Chafee has dropped out of the race.

[Velfi]

Who?

[Velfi]

Little political joke there for you. I made one of similar size also.

[Androidpk]

I laughed.

[Warriorbird]

Lincoln Chafee has dropped out of the race.

His 10 donors will be very disappointed.

[Androidpk]

Oh yeah, Webb dropped out on Tuesday. Didn't even notice.

[Androidpk]

His 10 donors will be very disappointed.

Heh, Lincoln Chaffee's biggest campaign donor was Lincoln Chaffee.

[Warriorbird]

Oh yeah, Webb dropped out on Tuesday. Didn't even notice.

I suspect it will be Sanders and Clinton fairly soon. The Republican Benghazi hearings have actually empowered Clinton with primary voters.

[Androidpk]

O'Malley has less than a $1 million in campaign funds so he won't be around much longer.

[Candor]

I suspect it will be Sanders and Clinton fairly soon. The Republican Benghazi hearings have actually empowered Clinton with primary voters.

Sanders doesn't have a chance unless Clinton does something really stupid.

[Androidpk]

Sanders doesn't have a chance unless Clinton does something really stupid.

People said Hillary was inevitable in 2008.

[Taernath]

People said Hillary was inevitable in 2008.

'Murica is a few years behind the curve in a lot of categories evil European socialist countries excel at. Bernie could be inevitable, but the average voter might still be a few years off from being able to accept a socialist democrat in office. Bernie's in his 70's and probably doesn't have enough gas to run again, and as far as I know there isn't anyone around to replace him.

[Androidpk]

'Murica is a few years behind the curve in a lot of categories evil European socialist countries excel at. Bernie could be inevitable, but the average voter might still be a few years off from being able to accept a socialist democrat in office. Bernie's in his 70's and probably doesn't have enough gas to run again, and as far as I know there isn't anyone around to replace him.

Someone really smart once said..


Nothing is inevitable. Everything is eventual.

[~Rocktar~]

'Murica is a few years behind the curve in a lot of categories evil European socialist countries excel at. Bernie could be inevitable, but the average voter might still be a few years off from being able to accept a socialist democrat in office. Bernie's in his 70's and probably doesn't have enough gas to run again, and as far as I know there isn't anyone around to replace him.

Like Denmark?


7654

[Taernath]

I, too, formulate opinions based on infographs from facebook commentators.

[~Rocktar~]

I, too, formulate opinions based on infographs from facebook commentators.

Here is a similar meme on Snopes being fact cheecked and pretty much the taxation is spot on. Just because it's a meme doesn't make it untrue.

[Taernath]

In any case, I'm glad I have you to formulate my arguments for me. It saves me time which could be better spent trolling lnet.

[Androidpk]

We must protect unchecked capitalism at all cost!

[Warriorbird]

Here is a similar meme on Snopes being fact cheecked and pretty much the taxation is spot on. Just because it's a meme doesn't make it untrue.

Or true in this case. Doing business in Denmark has a bunch of issues but nobody actually pays 68% in taxes.

[~Rocktar~]

Or true in this case. Doing business in Denmark has a bunch of issues but nobody actually pays 68% in taxes.

Tax plus VAT plus additional fees is pretty damn close. Just like in the US most people pay around 48-50% or more of their income in taxs and fees. And since the Supreme Court decided that health insurance can be regulated like a tax, I would argue that it is now closer to 60-70% tax or so.

[Latrinsorm]

Tax plus VAT plus additional fees is pretty damn close. Just like in the US most people pay around 48-50% or more of their income in taxs and fees. And since the Supreme Court decided that health insurance can be regulated like a tax, I would argue that it is now closer to 60-70% tax or so.Most people pay taxes! Three cheers for Obama for ending the welfare state! Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!

[~Rocktar~]

Most people pay taxes! Three cheers for Obama for ending the welfare state! Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!

Troll harder.

[Thondalar]

Most people pay taxes! Three cheers for Obama for ending the welfare state! Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah!

We're actually at a point now where most people don't pay taxes, except for like...general sales tax...

The future is bright, I'm sure.



Edit: before all the bullshit comes in, you know what I'm saying. I think back to when I was broke and first married with a kid....I paid taxes out of my paycheck every two weeks, but I got all of it back plus an "earned income credit" for my kid...so yes, I paid during the year, but I got back every dime I paid in plus a few K at the end of the year that came from....other taxpayers? I hated it, and moved past that as quickly as possible...I was also getting about $400 per month in food stamps and free medicaid for my kid during this time...I could very well be living very comfortably to this day on that largess, but I'm not built like that...I used it as intended, for about a year or so, and got the fuck off it as quickly as possible.

[Latrinsorm]

We're actually at a point now where most people don't pay taxes, except for like...general sales tax...Tell it to ~Rocktar~, man!
Edit: before all the bullshit comes in, you know what I'm saying. I think back to when I was broke and first married with a kid....I paid taxes out of my paycheck every two weeks, but I got all of it back plus an "earned income credit" for my kid...so yes, I paid during the year, but I got back every dime I paid in plus a few K at the end of the year that came from....other taxpayers? I hated it, and moved past that as quickly as possible...I was also getting about $400 per month in food stamps and free medicaid for my kid during this time...I could very well be living very comfortably to this day on that largess, but I'm not built like that...I used it as intended, for about a year or so, and got the fuck off it as quickly as possible.As a fellow person who has been broke in their life (and I'm childless!) I find it extremely hard to believe all of these statements at the same time. I certainly would have liked 8k a year, yes, but would have that made me "very comfortable"? No.

[Thondalar]

As a fellow person who has been broke in their life (and I'm childless!) I find it extremely hard to believe all of these statements at the same time. I certainly would have liked 8k a year, yes, but would have that made me "very comfortable"? No.

Comfortable is quite the relative term. I can't assume what would make you comfortable, so in this case I'm using it to mean the three basics...shelter, food, clothing...along with cable TV, phone/internet, and a reasonable entertainment budget. That 8k is on top of whatever money you make at your job, and doesn't include free healthcare, which will obviously vary depending on individual need, but could easily tack on another grand or two annually just from average preventive care.

If you want more than that out of life, you need to do the things necessary to improve your situation. I think it is completely unreasonable to expect society, or government, to provide anything more than that for you.

[Thondalar]

wtf...totally KILLED that...I'm guessing no response from anyone, even Latrin, in 2 days should be my victory, but...I guess I just want to rub it in.

[Androidpk]

What are your thoughts on basic universal income? It seems to me that something like that will eventually be necessary.

[Thondalar]

What are your thoughts on basic universal income? It seems to me that something like that will eventually be necessary.

You talking to me? I'm assuming you're talking to me, even though you didn't do that neat little quote thing most people do when directly responding to someone...

My thoughts on "basic universal income"....first thought is...that's even a concept? Like...that's a real thing to consider? Someone somewhere came up with that in good faith?

I can only assume Marxist thought...the guy who never had a real job his entire life, never had any experience in finance, or government, or reality..."but he said a lot of nice things that would be nice!?:!?!"

You don't get paid unless you perform some sort of function that has some intrinsic value, be it a service or product. That isn't Marxism, or Capitalism, or Communism, or any other ism...that's just reality. How your specific product relates to the overall economy will most likely fall in to one of those categories, but at the core of it, you have to perform some sort of function in order to get paid. Period Dot.

All these Marxist and Communist wannabes have zero concept of how an economy actually works...

The terrible truth about your..."universal income"...and Marxism in general, is that it only works for a society of healthy people. Communism fails because there is no "safety net" for under achievers...and yes, I get that I'm combining "philosophies" here, but...the beginning and end results are the same, in this case. You want to believe that your Utopia of "fairness" will mean unfettered happiness for all involved...

When has that EVER been the case? Name one time. Capitalism, with all of its terrible downfalls, has created more wealthy, happy people...most likely you, most definitely me...than any other system ever attempted by any Nation or government on this planet since the beginning of time. To devalue that based on some misguided sense of...what? Jealousy because a small fraction are able to become stupid wealthy? You're willing to completely ignore the general wealth attained by everyone just because you're jealous of a handful that managed to make an obscene amount of money? Really?

Time to do some evaluations, man. I'd also suggest picking up a history book. Might put things in to perspective.

[Androidpk]

Well when you consider the direction technology is moving.. it isn't really a philosophical idea but just straight reality. Robotics, advanced AI, 3D printing on a mass scale, free sources of energy.

Communism and jealousy.. :lol:

[Warriorbird]

You talking to me? I'm assuming you're talking to me, even though you didn't do that neat little quote thing most people do when directly responding to someone...

My thoughts on "basic universal income"....first thought is...that's even a concept? Like...that's a real thing to consider? Someone somewhere came up with that in good faith?

I can only assume Marxist thought...the guy who never had a real job his entire life, never had any experience in finance, or government, or reality..."but he said a lot of nice things that would be nice!?:!?!"

You don't get paid unless you perform some sort of function that has some intrinsic value, be it a service or product. That isn't Marxism, or Capitalism, or Communism, or any other ism...that's just reality. How your specific product relates to the overall economy will most likely fall in to one of those categories, but at the core of it, you have to perform some sort of function in order to get paid. Period Dot.

All these Marxist and Communist wannabes have zero concept of how an economy actually works...

The terrible truth about your..."universal income"...and Marxism in general, is that it only works for a society of healthy people. Communism fails because there is no "safety net" for under achievers...and yes, I get that I'm combining "philosophies" here, but...the beginning and end results are the same, in this case. You want to believe that your Utopia of "fairness" will mean unfettered happiness for all involved...

When has that EVER been the case? Name one time. Capitalism, with all of its terrible downfalls, has created more wealthy, happy people...most likely you, most definitely me...than any other system ever attempted by any Nation or government on this planet since the beginning of time. To devalue that based on some misguided sense of...what? Jealousy because a small fraction are able to become stupid wealthy? You're willing to completely ignore the general wealth attained by everyone just because you're jealous of a handful that managed to make an obscene amount of money? Really?

Time to do some evaluations, man. I'd also suggest picking up a history book. Might put things in to perspective.

At least two Libertarians support it.

http://www.conallboyle.com/BasicIncomeNewEcon/MurrayReview.pdf

http://www.cato-unbound.org/2014/08/04/matt-zwolinski/pragmatic-libertarian-case-basic-income-guarantee

[Latrinsorm]

My thoughts on "basic universal income"....first thought is...that's even a concept? Like...that's a real thing to consider? Someone somewhere came up with that in good faith?It's already a concept. The government calls it a poverty line, you call it a comfortable income, other people call it basic universal income. Don't get hung up on the term.
You don't get paid unless you perform some sort of function that has some intrinsic valueHumans have intrinsic value simply by existing. It's really hard to make a system of government without this ground state assumption. You can get really creative with the definition of "human", obviously, but every government has decided that at least some people are intrinsically valuable. Hence laws against murder, hence the concept of rights, and so on.
Capitalism, with all of its terrible downfalls, has created more wealthy, happy people...most likely you, most definitely me...than any other system ever attempted by any Nation or government on this planet since the beginning of time.You get the humor in your saying this when you personally derived tens of thousands of dollars from socialism, right?

[Parkbandit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_yxGsWHx9o