If ya ain't cheatin, ya ain't tryin!

[subzero]

Fuckin Patriots.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000491524/article/key-takeaways-from-the-wells-report

The Wells report was released on Wednesday, and included a mountain of information regarding the Patriots' involvement with the treatment of footballs before the AFC Championship.

We have heard from NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, Patriots owner Robert Kraft, and many players from around the league since the report came out. We will have to wait for potential discipline for Tom Brady and/or the Patriots organization.

In the meantime, you could peruse all 243 pages of the Wells Report. Since most humans don't have time to read through it all, we've gone through and chosen some of the key passages:

» "It is more probable than not that New England Patriots personnel participated in violations of the Playing Rules and were involved in a deliberate effort to circumvent the rules."]

» The Wells Report concludes "it is more probable than not that Jim McNally (the Officials Locker Room attendant for the Patriots) and John Jastremski (an equipment assistant for the Patriots) participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots game balls after the balls were examined by the referee."

» "It is more probable than not that Tom Brady (the quarterback for the Patriots) was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls."

» The kicking ball was a different matter: The Wells Report concludes "that there was no deliberate attempt by the Patriots to introduce to the playing field a non-approved kicking ball during the AFC Championship Game."

» "No other Patriots personnel participated in or had knowledge of the violation of the Playing Rules or the deliberate effort to circumvent the rules described in this Report."

» The Wells Report found no evidence "there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots ownership, Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick or any other Patriots coach in the matters investigated. We also do not believe there was any wrongdoing or knowledge of wrongdoing by Patriots Head Equipment Manager Dave Schoenfeld."

» Patriots counsel rejected second interview with McNally despite five written requests to do so.

» McNally took two bags of game balls from Officials Locker Room before start of AFC Championship without receiving permission of referee Walt Anderson. Anderson says that had never happened before in his career.

» Video evidence from pregame of AFC Championship shows McNally detouring to bathroom with two bags of game balls after taking them from officials' dressing room. He remained in bathroom for 1 minute, 40 seconds and then took both bags to field.

» McNally was interviewed by NFL Security after AFC Championship Game. During that interview he never mentioned taking balls into bathroom. Initially, he stated he walked directly to field.

» The Colts notified NFL before AFC Championship Game that they suspected Patriots might be deflating game balls.

» At halftime of AFC Championship Game, two alternate game officials tested 11 Patriots game balls and four Colts game balls.

» The Patriots ball intercepted by the Colts was not among the eleven Patriots balls tested. Each official used a separate air pressure gauge provided by referee Anderson that Anderson had brought with him to the game, one of which also had been used by Anderson for his pre-game inspection. Each of the 11 Patriots balls tested at halftime measured below the minimum 12.5 psi level established by the Playing Rules on both gauges. Each of the four Colts balls tested measured within the permissible 12.5 to 13.5 psi range on at least one of the gauges. The measurements were recorded in writing by Richard Farley, an NFL security official who has been assigned to the Patriots and Gillette Stadium for approximately twelve years. Only four Colts balls were tested because the officials were running out of time before the start of the second half.

» All 11 Patriots balls were inflated back to permissible pressure level. The four Colts balls were not because they were within permissible level.

» Tom Brady appeared for a requested interview and answered questions voluntarily, he declined to make available any documents or electronic information (including text messages and emails) that investigators requested.

» Richard Farley, security rep for the Patriots and the NFL said he has never been in a situation before the AFC Championship Game where the game balls could not be located.

» McNally claimed he stopped in the restroom and used a urinal. Indicated he has used that bathroom near the field entrance while in possession of the game balls "many times." That bathroom has no urinal.

» Colts general manager Ryan Grigson notified after interception that ball was under the psi. He notified NFL officials Troy Vincent and Mike Kensil. Both were already notified about the situation and were headed to the field. Kensil and Vincent had already decided to collect all of the game balls and test them.

» Brady claimed during his interview that he did not know McNally's name or his game-day responsibilities. McNally received two autographed footballs and an autographed jersey from Brady on January 10, 2015. Jastremski received various items of value from Brady during the years including cash tips (common practice), gift cards, memorabilia, etc.

» Tom Brady and Patriots coach Bill Belichick spoke about the issue before a team meeting on January 22. Brady denied knowledge or involvement. Both then addressed team during meeting with Belichick saying there "was not one shred of truth" to the allegations.

[elcidcannon]

the text messages between the equipment manager and locker room assistant are pretty damning. it's pretty obvious brady knew it was going on. fuck 'em.

[Androidpk]

"It is more than probable.."

Yeah that sounds real reassuring.

[Archigeek]

"It is more than probable.."

Yeah that sounds real reassuring.

That is a strange turn of phrase that doesn't really tell you anything.

[Ker_Thwap]

That is a strange turn of phrase that doesn't really tell you anything.

I got the impression that the NFL didn't want to admit that they had crappy oversight rules.

I have no intention of reading the report, but on talk radio yesterday, I heard the bulk of the text messages from the locker room guys. They were pretty much like two guys clowning around about a co-worker. There was nothing remotely damning. Brady was going to hook one of them up with some footballs and some shoes.

The only thing that made Brady look like a stiff is that he didn't know one of the guys names who was helping him out. I'm terrible with names myself, and there were plenty of remote coworkers I'd nod politely to over the years, but never really knew their name. At some point you can't really ask what their name is, because you've been nodding politely all those years.

All in all, just more terrible logic and bad science.

[RichardCranium]

I'm more surprised that Goodell wasn't able to give them a slap on the wrist and destroy the evidence. Bad science maybe, but there's history here.

[Archigeek]

Hard to get damning proof when they decline to participate in the investigation isn't it? I will admit I didn't read the report, but there seemed to be a lot of refusal to participate. To me, that's the most damning part of all of it.

Honestly, I'm surprised they use different balls for each team. That just makes no sense to me. It's a football game: use one ball for the whole game or until it gets smooshed or something.

[Androidpk]

Honestly, I'm surprised they use different balls for each team. That just makes no sense to me. It's a football game: use one ball for the whole game or until it gets smooshed or something.

+1

[elcidcannon]

Hard to get damning proof when they decline to participate in the investigation isn't it? I will admit I didn't read the report, but there seemed to be a lot of refusal to participate. To me, that's the most damning part of all of it.

That, and somehow they were able to get text messages between the two. References to over-inflating balls to make Brady unhappy, and one referring to himself as the "deflator." Nothing that specifically says "I deflated footballs for Tom Brady," but its easy enough to read between the lines.

[Androidpk]

That, and somehow they were able to get text messages between the two. References to over-inflating balls to make Brady unhappy, and one referring to himself as the "deflator." Nothing that specifically says "I deflated footballs for Tom Brady," but its easy enough to read between the lines.

The football is allowed a certain range of psi and quarterbacks have different preferences. Brady being anal about it doesn't mean he conspired to have the weight decreased to below the allowed amount.

[Methais]

If it turns out they were cheating, when are people going to learn to stop using text messages to communicate doing bad things?

[Warriorbird]

If it turns out they were cheating, when are people going to learn to stop using text messages to communicate doing bad things?

Never. People are stupid.

[subzero]

"It is more than probable.."

Yeah that sounds real reassuring.


That is a strange turn of phrase that doesn't really tell you anything.


They're known cheaters... 11 of the goddamn balls tested at half-time were deflated. None of the Colts balls were, though, so scratch the cold weather theory, eh?

Thankfully we don't live in Latrin-world, so there were no cameras in the bathroom where the two ball bags were taken which means we won't ever have video evidence of someone deflating balls. Sometimes you just have to fill in the gap yourself. Ball-boy took balls to place no cameras are present, all (Patriots) balls tested on field are under-inflated. Maybe something else happened along the way, but what are the odds?

The report also seems to uncover more than one person in the organization lying about various things, so... yeah. They probably irdidn't do it, fine upstanding people they are and all. From snowplows to deflated balls...

[subzero]

The football is allowed a certain range of psi and quarterbacks have different preferences. Brady being anal about it doesn't mean he conspired to have the weight decreased to below the allowed amount.

Yet they all were. Maybe it was the center or Gronk?

[Androidpk]

They're known cheaters only to people who have a hard on towards hating them.

[subzero]

They're known cheaters only to people who have a hard on towards hating them.

Really? So the NFL didn't penalize them for "Spygate"?

[Androidpk]

Really? So the NFL didn't penalize them for "Spygate"?

If you're going to use Spygate as an example you may as well label every single team as cheaters.

[Wesley]

https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/qVY-GU5_viXMYLv-Osd1OU2OYiU=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3332326/Screen_Shot_2015-01-23_at_9.25.08_AM.0.png

[Androidpk]

Look at all those red commies!

[Latrinsorm]

Thankfully we don't live in Latrin-world, so there were no cameras in the bathroom where the two ball bags were taken which means we won't ever have video evidence of someone deflating balls.This is a manifest contradiction. Psychosis!!!
If you're going to use Spygate as an example you may as well label every single team as cheaters.How many teams were fined $500,000 for on-field behavior?

[Androidpk]

This is a manifest contradiction. Psychosis!!!How many teams were fined $500,000 for on-field behavior?


How many teams should have been fined?

[Wesley]

How many teams were fined $500,000 for on-field behavior?

Does James Harrison count as a team? I'm going to go with James Harrison. That man just loved to hit people, regardless of the consequences.

[Latrinsorm]

How many teams should have been fined?Two.

The Patriots and the Broncos.

They are cheaters. They were caught. Show a little self-respect and own up to it.

[Androidpk]

Two.

The Patriots and the Broncos.

They are cheaters. They were caught. Show a little self-respect and own up to it.

So the teams that admitted to doing the same but weren't actually caught don't deserve equal punishment?

[Latrinsorm]

Source.

[subzero]

This is a manifest contradiction. Psychosis!!!

Nope. I'm good with such evidence not existing and using logic to fill in a tiny little gap in the scenario.

[Androidpk]

Source.

Www.google.com

[Gelston]

If you cheat and succeed, you’re savvy. Just before the last Super Bowl, Bill Belichick gathered his football players and said: “Let’s win this one for real. Just this one time. Let’s not cheat.” You know what happened? They lost.

Even if you feel all eyes are upon you, you cannot give up on cheating or else you can lose the biggest game of your lives.

(Praise Cartman)

[elcidcannon]

Www.google.com

https://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&site=&source=hp&btnG=Search&q=teams+that+admitted+to+doing+the+same+but+weren% 27t+actually+caught

Didn't help, still looking for the source.

[subzero]

If you cheat and succeed, you’re savvy. Just before the last Super Bowl, Bill Belichick gathered his football players and said: “Let’s win this one for real. Just this one time. Let’s not cheat.” You know what happened? They lost.

Even if you feel all eyes are upon you, you cannot give up on cheating or else you can lose the biggest game of your lives.

(Praise Cartman)

Praise be to Cartman!

[Ker_Thwap]

They're known cheaters... 11 of the goddamn balls tested at half-time were deflated. None of the Colts balls were, though, so scratch the cold weather theory, eh?

Thankfully we don't live in Latrin-world, so there were no cameras in the bathroom where the two ball bags were taken which means we won't ever have video evidence of someone deflating balls. Sometimes you just have to fill in the gap yourself. Ball-boy took balls to place no cameras are present, all (Patriots) balls tested on field are under-inflated. Maybe something else happened along the way, but what are the odds?

The report also seems to uncover more than one person in the organization lying about various things, so... yeah. They probably irdidn't do it, fine upstanding people they are and all. From snowplows to deflated balls...

I fully believe they got the balls to the lowest acceptable pressure. There are many ways this can be accomplished legally within the current framework of rules.

Spygate? That was about Belichick making the league look frickin stupid, and they retaliated hard. Surely, as a football fan you already know the details.

Stop listening to Shannon Sharpe.

[Archigeek]

All I can really say is that I have to give props to the ball boy for being able to deflate 11 balls in a bathroom in 90 seconds. That's pretty impressive if that's what really happened. Somehow I think either the time frame is inaccurate, or there were 5 other guys waiting in the bathroom, ready to deflate balls as soon as he came in. I think the league has done a really shitty job of investigating here. They don't want their champions to have egg on their collective faces, because it would make the entire league look bad.

[Ker_Thwap]

All I can really say is that I have to give props to the ball boy for being able to deflate 11 balls in a bathroom in 90 seconds. That's pretty impressive if that's what really happened. Somehow I think either the time frame is inaccurate, or there were 5 other guys waiting in the bathroom, ready to deflate balls as soon as he came in. I think the league has done a really shitty job of investigating here. They don't want their champions to have egg on their collective faces, because it would make the entire league look bad.

I'm not unwilling to believe that they'd cheat. But rushing through it in 90 seconds seems super sloppy and inefficient. With a bit of practice, you could get pretty good at timing it so you let more or less the same amount of each ball. I'd assume the balls are all piled in a mesh bag, so you could just leave them in the bag, but that means you'd be risking deflating one or two balls twice by mistake, and missing one or two balls. I'd think that if you're that picky about the pressure, you'd want them to be very consistent. I'm unwilling to believe that they'd cheat so sloppily. I'd expect better execution than that.

As for not wanting to make the champion look bad, I don't get that impression at all. I get the impression that they tried to hard to find something against the Patriots, so as not to make themselves look bad. The "independent" investigator was paid by the league, and the "science" source was Exponent Consulting.

If anyone cares, here's a link. (http://thornography.weei.com/sports/boston/2015/05/07/everything-wrong-with-the-wells-report/)

[JackWhisper]

Not for nothing, because I don't care about this conversation, but there are small instruments you can attach to an inflation needle that will inflate/deflate an exact amount that you set. No guesswork needed. That would save them quite a bit of time, and allow them to be precise about getting to each ball.

[Archigeek]

I'm not unwilling to believe that they'd cheat. But rushing through it in 90 seconds seems super sloppy and inefficient. With a bit of practice, you could get pretty good at timing it so you let more or less the same amount of each ball. I'd assume the balls are all piled in a mesh bag, so you could just leave them in the bag, but that means you'd be risking deflating one or two balls twice by mistake, and missing one or two balls. I'd think that if you're that picky about the pressure, you'd want them to be very consistent. I'm unwilling to believe that they'd cheat so sloppily. I'd expect better execution than that.

As for not wanting to make the champion look bad, I don't get that impression at all. I get the impression that they tried to hard to find something against the Patriots, so as not to make themselves look bad. The "independent" investigator was paid by the league, and the "science" source was Exponent Consulting.

If anyone cares, here's a link. (http://thornography.weei.com/sports/boston/2015/05/07/everything-wrong-with-the-wells-report/)

When people refuse to participate, and you don't have the balls (see what I did there) to make them participate, then what value does your investigation have? There were too many people who refused to do more than one interview, etc. The league should have the teeth to compel people to participate or face consequences.

As for sloppiness, it's clear that the balls were all deflated where the opponents balls were not, and they were all deflated the same amount, and below the allowable level of inflation. So either there was a very well practiced system in place, (which is even more damning), or they were doing it somewhere other than the bathroom that hasn't been discovered.

I still contend that they should use 1 ball for the whole game, for both teams. Having different balls for each team makes no sense to me.

[JackWhisper]

I still contend that they should use 1 ball for the whole game, for both teams. Having different balls for each team makes no sense to me.

This.

[Ker_Thwap]

When people refuse to participate, and you don't have the balls (see what I did there) to make them participate, then what value does your investigation have? There were too many people who refused to do more than one interview, etc. The league should have the teeth to compel people to participate or face consequences.

As for sloppiness, it's clear that the balls were all deflated where the opponents balls were not, and they were all deflated the same amount, and below the allowable level of inflation. So either there was a very well practiced system in place, (which is even more damning), or they were doing it somewhere other than the bathroom that hasn't been discovered.

I still contend that they should use 1 ball for the whole game, for both teams. Having different balls for each team makes no sense to me.

Incorrect. 8 balls were within legal limits given standard gas/temperature equations. 3 balls were a bit low. 1 ball, which left custody, was quite low.

Edit, it seems weird that three balls only would be tampered with.

[Androidpk]

I don't like any of my balls being tampered with.

[Archigeek]

Incorrect. 8 balls were within legal limits given standard gas/temperature equations. 3 balls were a bit low. 1 ball, which left custody, was quite low.

Edit, it seems weird that three balls only would be tampered with.


The Patriots ball intercepted by the Colts was not among the eleven Patriots balls tested. Each official used a separate air pressure gauge provided by referee Anderson that Anderson had brought with him to the game, one of which also had been used by Anderson for his pre-game inspection. Each of the 11 Patriots balls tested at halftime measured below the minimum 12.5 psi level established by the Playing Rules on both gauges. Each of the four Colts balls tested measured within the permissible 12.5 to 13.5 psi range on at least one of the gauges. The measurements were recorded in writing by Richard Farley, an NFL security official who has been assigned to the Patriots and Gillette Stadium for approximately twelve years. Only four Colts balls were tested because the officials were running out of time before the start of the second half.

Each of the 11 Patriot's balls tested at halftime measured below the minimum 12.5 psi level established by the Playing Rules on both gauges.

[Ker_Thwap]

The rules state the balls must be at 12.5 psi one hour before the game. The rules don't say that the balls must remain at 12.5 psi on a cold field at halftime. The rules don't say the balls must remain at a certain pressure and disobey the rules of physics.

[subzero]

I fully believe they got the balls to the lowest acceptable pressure. There are many ways this can be accomplished legally within the current framework of rules.

Spygate? That was about Belichick making the league look frickin stupid, and they retaliated hard. Surely, as a football fan you already know the details.

Stop listening to Shannon Sharpe.

Ok, Teddy!

https://twitter.com/ESPNNFL/status/596702413333094400/photo/1

[Candor]

The rules state the balls must be at 12.5 psi one hour before the game. The rules don't say that the balls must remain at 12.5 psi on a cold field at halftime. The rules don't say the balls must remain at a certain pressure and disobey the rules of physics.

That.

[Latrinsorm]

The rules state the balls must be at 12.5 psi one hour before the game. The rules don't say that the balls must remain at 12.5 psi on a cold field at halftime. The rules don't say the balls must remain at a certain pressure and disobey the rules of physics.They still don't say that. Unlike a certain robo-American, I am happy to provide a source for my claim. Rule 2, Section 1 (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf):

"The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind."

Period. If you know the field is going to be cold, don't go to the absolute edge of the acceptable range before going outside. Not hard.

[Androidpk]

Robo is a racial slur against androids. I am insulted.

[SHAFT]

4 game suspension for Brady, loss of draft picks, million $ fine for pats. Wow.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1163/tom-brady

[Kembal]

Wow indeed. The NFL just dropped the hammer on the Pats. 4 games suspension for Brady and no 1st round draft pick? Ouch.

[Parkbandit]

Once the Players Union appeals this, it'll get put down to 1 or 2 games.. which I think is appropriate.

[Androidpk]

4 game suspension for Brady, loss of draft picks, million $ fine for pats. Wow.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/1163/tom-brady

That is some bullshit right there.

[Ardwen]

Hey its okay Suh was a Clean athlete last year when they refused to consider his past offenses last year

[Androidpk]

Here is my prediction. Brady is going to sue the NFL for defamation of character and penalty and fines will be overturned.

[Warriorbird]

If the Patriots were a college team I suspect they would have lost two seasons (one before and one now). They will do it again.

[Gelston]

My prediction is that the Patriots will be booted from the NFL, have horrible seasons in Canadian Leagues, try their luck in the Eureopean to no aval, and then turn into a soccer team and buttfuck eachother all day.

[Fallen]

Gelston...have a Snickers.

http://www.adweek.com/files/imagecache/node-blog/blogs/danny-trejo-snickers-hed-2015.png

[Ker_Thwap]

Here is my prediction. Brady is going to sue the NFL for defamation of character and penalty and fines will be overturned.

I'm thinking he'll sue for something real, like millions in lost wages, something related to employers can't demand personal cell phone records, or some such thing... or, he'll just retire, tell the NFL to pound sand, become a Mass Senator, then the president, and order a drone strike on Goodell.

[subzero]

Here is my prediction. Brady is going to sue the NFL for defamation of character and penalty and fines will be overturned.

Ain't gonna happen. Truth is an absolute defense against defamation.

[Androidpk]

Ain't gonna happen. Truth is an absolute defense against defamation.

Truth trumps opinion.

[Androidpk]

Five biggest issues with evidence against Patriots in Wells report.

http://nesn.com/2015/05/five-biggest-issues-with-evidence-against-patriots-in-wells-report/ (http://nesn.com/2015/05/five-biggest-issues-with-evidence-against-patriots-in-wells-report/)

[Androidpk]

Well that was fast, Belichick signs a new quarterback..

http://i.imgur.com/pkNwCor.jpg

[subzero]

Well that was fast, Belichick signs a new quarterback..

http://i.imgur.com/pkNwCor.jpg

The NFL should retire #13. It belongs to one man. The man.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0812/nfl_g_marino2_260.jpg

[Androidpk]

The NFL should retire #13. It belongs to one man. The man.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0812/nfl_g_marino2_260.jpg

How many rings did Marino win?

[Gelston]

How many rings did Marino win?

How many Ace Ventura movies was Brady in?

[SHAFT]

The NFL should retire #13. It belongs to one man. The man.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0812/nfl_g_marino2_260.jpg

He's no Steve young.

[subzero]

How many rings did Marino win?

It's a team sport. Individually, he revolutionized the game. Without Marino, there would be no Brady.


How many Ace Ventura movies was Brady in?

How many movies at all? Marino is a legit movie star!

[Drektor]

Brady is in Ted 2.

[Parkbandit]

The penalty is a combination of what Brady did and how he handled the investigation. He didn't cooperate and wouldn't turn over his electronic records.

It'll be arbitrated down to 2 games.

[Androidpk]

The penalty is a combination of what Brady did and how he handled the investigation. He didn't cooperate and wouldn't turn over his electronic records.

It'll be arbitrated down to 2 games.

You mean he sat down with investigators for a full day answering questions? He'll be playing on opening day guaranteed.

[elcidcannon]

and wouldn't turn over his electronic records.

I think that's the key. He didn't fully cooperate. I don't blame him though...I wouldn't want to turn over my phone and shit either.

[Androidpk]

I think that's the key. He didn't fully cooperate. I don't blame him though...I wouldn't want to turn over my phone and shit either.

Which is why an independent investigation is going to overturn this garbage.

[Ker_Thwap]

To expand on the gauge controversy even more. The report made a big deal out of pumping up Walt Anderson, perhaps deservedly so, he's been around the league a long time and is well respected.

The investigators asked Walt Anderson which gauge he used. He said "to the best of my knowledge it was the this one" He went on to describe characteristics of the gauge used, as the brand and the length of the hose. Realizing that wouldn't fit with scientific conclusion they wanted, they asked him again, could he have been mistaken and used the other gauge. He responded, "it's possible."

So, from the words of a trusted, well respected gentleman, they decided to run the tests as if Walt had used the second gauge. Every other thing Walt says is gospel, but they don't believe him about what gauge he recalls using? Pure witch hunt material right there.

Such bad science overall. They bring the balls inside, and don't give them time to warm up, which as any male can tell you will cause shrinkage.

I already mentioned, employers have no right to personal cell phone records. If you were Brady and your contacts list probably includes, the pope, the queen, world leaders and half of Hollywood, would you really trust some "independent" reviewer with your shit? Who knows what search algorithm they'll use. They ended up with a text to one of the guy's mothers for fucks sake, and chose to include it in the public report.

All they have is, three balls were low, and a year ago a locker room attendant called himself "the deflator" a year ago. He could have been the pre-game deflator for all anyone knows. There's no pattern of continued activity. There's sure as hell no proper scientific method or statistical significance that says anything happened that broke a rule.

The NFL rules are indeed the problem. It seems like the problem is that the pre-game ritual, of a ref can consist of squeezing a ball, and saying that one seems a bit soft, pump a random amount of air into it. A truly independent investigator would have picked up on the NFLs flaws as well the Patriots flaws, and not worked it like a one sided witch hunt.

Yeah, I'm obviously a Patriots fan boy, but I think I'm more offended by the affront to science and logic.

[Ker_Thwap]

Which is why an independent investigation is going to overturn this garbage.

The independent arbitrator hired by the league? Don't count on it. Unless Brady can choose the arbitrator himself, I don't see him allowing this "independent" crap to favor the NFL twice.

[Androidpk]

>Such bad science overall. They bring the balls inside, and don't give them time to warm up, which as any male can tell you will cause shrinkage.

The Colt's balls were inside long enough to warm up before they were tested.

[SHAFT]

The penalty is a combination of what Brady did and how he handled the investigation. He didn't cooperate and wouldn't turn over his electronic records.

It'll be arbitrated down to 2 games.

Yeah, 2 games sounds about right. Although Brady should just apologize and take the 4 game suspension. It would help repair his reputation and image if he acknowledged the situation.

[Androidpk]

Yeah, 2 games sounds about right. Although Brady should just apologize and take the 4 game suspension. It would help repair his reputation and image if he acknowledged the situation.

Apologize for what exactly?

[Ker_Thwap]

Yeah, 2 games sounds about right. Although Brady should just apologize and take the 4 game suspension. It would help repair his reputation and image if he acknowledged the situation.

Eh, I'd have more respect for him if he walked from the NFL, and went to play for a few seasons in the CFL because he loves the game. He moved to Mass, and has made a point of stating this is my home on several occasions. I suspect his plans involve running for public office after he retires on the strength of his unblemished football career. He's not going to admit to cheating. I could be wrong, but doubt it.

[elcidcannon]

If you were Brady and your contacts list probably includes, the pope, the queen, world leaders and half of Hollywood, would you really trust some "independent" reviewer with your shit?

Not the mention the pics of Giselle!

[Atlanteax]

This is just like the NCAA's way overzealous punishment of Penn State.

Many players prefer slightly deflated balls anyhow, so if anything, it should be a Patriot fine for failure to be discreet about it.

The biggest hypocrisy is going this ridiculously heavy but hey, that one player who punched-out his GF in the elevator did nothing morally wrong.

[Astray]

Beating a woman? Fine and a suspension.

Cheat? OH YOU ARE FUCKING GONE MISTER HOW DARE YOU DO SOMETHING SO HORRENDOUS AND OUTRAGEOUS

[Androidpk]

Goodell should just resign for being a colossal fuck head.

[Whirlin]

The penalty is a combination of what Brady did and how he handled the investigation. He didn't cooperate and wouldn't turn over his electronic records.

It'll be arbitrated down to 2 games.

2 seems much more reasonable. Otherwise the message they're conveying is that potentially deflating footballs with no concrete evidence is worse than beating your wife on video twice.

Brady did to 4 interviews with the investigators, and denied the request for a fifth one, as it was beginning to be invasive. They should have had all the information they needed in the first four sessions.

I'm also not sure what new magical information would be provided if he turned over his cell phone... not like cell phones are the source of truth for electronic communications. I can pretty easilly delete texts/e-mails from my local devices. If they were looking for records from the cell phone provider/etc.. that would make more sense, but I didn't see it written that way anywhere.

Here in MA, they've been calling the NFL the new WWE. The four game suspension puts the fifth game with the Colts, which appears to be a pure clear ratings move. A four game suspension would also end Brandy's first home game win streak, which I think he's #4 in the NFL on streak, or something like that. So, that just makes it an extra dick move.

In 2014, the Colts and Falcons both allegedly piped in additional crowd noise to further their venue's reputation for being stupidly loud. From my super quick googling, I haven't seen either further investigated.

[SHAFT]

The integrity of the game is probably more important than domestic abuse to the NFL. It's their livelihood. If people begin to think that the games aren't being played at an honest level, you can lose fans. Which is what happened with baseball and the NBA. One for steroids the other for referees altering the outcome of games due to gambling.

Domestic violence won't ruin your sport, but cheating can. This is why they came down hard on Brady and the pats.

Also, the patriots were just recently involved in another cheating scandal in 2007. Perhaps you pats fans remember spygate? That probably had something to do with the penalty too.

Whirlin, the Falcons were fined and docked draft picks for the crowd noise. It's the Atlanta Falcons, which no one cares about. That's why you aren't hearing about it.

[Astray]

The integrity of the game is probably more important than domestic abuse to the NFL. It's their livelihood. If people begin to think that the games aren't being played at an honest level, you can lose fans. Which is what happened with baseball and the NBA. One for steroids the other for referees altering the outcome of games due to gambling.

Domestic violence won't ruin your sport, but cheating can. This is why they came down hard on Brady and the pats.

Also, the patriots were just recently involved in another cheating scandal in 2007. Perhaps you pats fans remember spygate? That probably had something to do with the penalty too.

I'm disgusted that you're correct.

[Ker_Thwap]

The secondary penalty to spygate was worse, as every uneducated troll now brings it up like it's some kind of big important cheating thing.

They got penalized, not for filming, but for filming in the wrong spot. That's it, the wrong spot. They could have stayed back 5 feet, used the telephoto lens, and been legal. So, why did the Patriots push that envelope? Let me tell you.

In prior years, the Dolphins were filming the hell out of the Patriots, and were the only team at the time consistently beating them. The Patriots went to the league and said, "Hey, can we stop this shit?" The league said, deal with it, we aren't penalizing the Dolphins. Belichick said fine, I'll deal with it, and he put blaze orange vests on camera personnel and sent them out in public to make a nuisance of themselves. The NFL lost it's shit, and hammered the Patriots. So, it wasn't about cheating, and trying to get an advantage. It was about sending a big middle finger to the league.

This is Belichick's style. He asked for permission to wear a suit on the sidelines like Landry and all the prior classy coaches, and the NFL said, "Nope, gotta wear our logo gear!" So, he said fine, I'll wear your crappy gear, and the sleeveless hoody was born. The sleeveless hoody is Belichick's figurative middle finger to the NFL, not a fashion decision.

So seriously, anyone who brings up Spygate as cheating is showing their ass.

[Parkbandit]

You mean he sat down with investigators for a full day answering questions? He'll be playing on opening day guaranteed.

I'll take that wager.

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, 2 games sounds about right. Although Brady should just apologize and take the 4 game suspension. It would help repair his reputation and image if he acknowledged the situation.

I don't think it will or did tarnish his image all that much. Had he just been upfront about it from the beginning like "Hey, my preference is to have the inflation on the low side, but still within the rules set forth by the NFL. My equipment managers know this.. and as such keep the footballs on the low side of the rules. I have never, ever, told our equipment managers to go below that guideline and if they took anything I said as instructions from me to cheat, then I apologize for that miscommunication. The perfect ball to be is right around 11.5 psi, not below." this would probably have blown over. I don't think it's a big deal to be honest.. and clearly didn't decide the outcome of the game.

He will be a first ballot Hall of Famer and to the people who believe he should have an asterisk by his records.. they are dumb as fuck.

[Parkbandit]

This is just like the NCAA's way overzealous punishment of Penn State.

Many players prefer slightly deflated balls anyhow, so if anything, it should be a Patriot fine for failure to be discreet about it.

The biggest hypocrisy is going this ridiculously heavy but hey, that one player who punched-out his GF in the elevator did nothing morally wrong.

That's the rub though.. I think Goodell had to bring this level of punishment down. If he did 2 games and a half a million on the Patriots, people would be clamoring "Favoritism" because Goodell and Craft are friends.

He went hard, knowing it would be arbitrated down.

[Ker_Thwap]

I don't think it will or did tarnish his image all that much. Had he just been upfront about it from the beginning like "Hey, my preference is to have the inflation on the low side, but still within the rules set forth by the NFL. My equipment managers know this.. and as such keep the footballs on the low side of the rules. I have never, ever, told our equipment managers to go below that guideline and if they took anything I said as instructions from me to cheat, then I apologize for that miscommunication. The perfect ball to be is right around 11.5 psi, not below." this would probably have blown over. I don't think it's a big deal to be honest.. and clearly didn't decide the outcome of the game.

He will be a first ballot Hall of Famer and to the people who believe he should have an asterisk by his records.. they are dumb as fuck.

He probably said something similar to the NFL. The problem with how you phrased it, is that it looks like he's throwing the equipment guys under the bus. Even I'd lose a lot of respect for him if he did that to a couple of low wage employees.

[Ker_Thwap]

That's the rub though.. I think Goodell had to bring this level of punishment down. If he did 2 games and a half a million on the Patriots, people would be clamoring "Favoritism" because Goodell and Craft are friends.

He went hard, knowing it would be arbitrated down.

I don't think the team can arbitrate anything. Which means the fine, and the loss of draft pick are set in stone. They can maybe take it to actual court, but I doubt that would happen. I could be wrong, I'm too lazy to actually fact check this.

Brady has rights with the union, and can do a lot more legally.

[Parkbandit]

He probably said something similar to the NFL. The problem with how you phrased it, is that it looks like he's throwing the equipment guys under the bus. Even I'd lose a lot of respect for him if he did that to a couple of low wage employees.

Let's be honest.. Brady knew the equipment guys were under inflating the balls. Do you believe that they would simply take it upon themselves to under inflate balls because.. well, just because?

Brady hasn't handled this situation very well.

[Parkbandit]

I don't think the team can arbitrate anything. Which means the fine, and the loss of draft pick are set in stone. They can maybe take it to actual court, but I doubt that would happen. I could be wrong, I'm too lazy to actually fact check this.

Brady has rights with the union, and can do a lot more legally.

1 million to the Patriots is couch change. They don't give a shit about that. They are more interested in having their star player on the field.. which is what I was talking about being arbitrated.

[Androidpk]

I'll take that wager.

Okay.

[Ker_Thwap]

Yeah, no one cares about the million bucks. The 32nd draft pick hurts a bit. :)

There's still no proof Brady said "underinflate." He probably gave the equipment guys crap because they watched while a ref pumped a ball arbitrarily to 16.

Maybe he said, "do something about it next time!" (like yell at the ref inflating the ball)

Maybe he said, "taking a fucking needle after the ref screws us, and lower it back down to something reasonable."

Maybe he said, "stop in the bathroom and lower them all to 12.4 psi exactly, and I'll pay for your kid's tuition"

We just don't know.

[Parkbandit]

Okay.

Terms?

[Androidpk]

Terms?

Pretty straightforward, either he is suspended and doesn't play or he plays. If the suspension goes away but he doesn't play for another reason, health or otherwise, it doesn't count.

[Ker_Thwap]

Pretty straightforward, either he is suspended and doesn't play or he plays. If the suspension goes away but he doesn't play for another reason, health or otherwise, it doesn't count.

Loser gets a 3x3" tattoo on their forehead, winner's choice of theme... or maybe bet a few silvers.

[subzero]

Let's be honest.. Brady knew the equipment guys were under inflating the balls. Do you believe that they would simply take it upon themselves to under inflate balls because.. well, just because?



PK does.


1 million to the Patriots is couch change. They don't give a shit about that. They are more interested in having their star player on the field.. which is what I was talking about being arbitrated.

And there's some complete fucking moron who started a Go Fund Me account to pay the fine for them...

[Parkbandit]

Pretty straightforward, either he is suspended and doesn't play or he plays. If the suspension goes away but he doesn't play for another reason, health or otherwise, it doesn't count.

So you say he will not be suspended for any games this year. I say he will be suspended at least 1 game this coming year.

Winner decides the loser's avatar for a month?

[Androidpk]

So you say he will not be suspended for any games this year. I say he will be suspended at least 1 game this coming year.

Winner decides the loser's avatar for a month?

I'm saying he'll be playing on opening day of the regular season. Avatars, yes, within reason.

[Parkbandit]

I'm saying he'll be playing on opening day of the regular season. Avatars, yes, within reason.

What happens if this isn't solved by the time the season starts.. he plays the first couple of games and then he gets suspended for like the 3rd game?

I'm saying he will serve at least a 1 game suspension for his role in "Deflategate". You are saying he will get no game suspension. I'm fine with those type of terms.

And the avatar can't be against the terms of this forum (nudity, personal information, etc..)

[Whirlin]

Avatar duration?

[Parkbandit]

Avatar duration?



Winner decides the loser's avatar for a month?.

[Whirlin]

.

What are you going to change pk's avatar into?

[Androidpk]

What happens if this isn't solved by the time the season starts.. he plays the first couple of games and then he gets suspended for like the 3rd game?

I'm saying he will serve at least a 1 game suspension for his role in "Deflategate". You are saying he will get no game suspension. I'm fine with those type of terms.

And the avatar can't be against the terms of this forum (nudity, personal information, etc..)

He is already suspended.

[subzero]

Heh... "Tom Brady's 4-game suspension costs him $1,882,352 in salary. Patriots' fine is $1M. So team actually makes $882K...but still loses plenty." -Adam Schefter.

[Ker_Thwap]

Heard some funny ideas on the radio, about what might happen if Kraft decides to go full nuclear against the NFL.

- No banner ceremony/ no rings ceremony until Brady is in uniform. Won't that annoy whoever has the broadcast rights to that game.
- Put the entire team in #12 jerseys, and take the resulting penalties.
- Send out 10 men for the opening snap.
- #12 stickers on all the helmets.
- Play a video message from Brady to the team/fans. Keep it on repeat throughout the entire two home games.

Edit: counting problems

[Ker_Thwap]

Heh... "Tom Brady's 4-game suspension costs him $1,882,352 in salary. Patriots' fine is $1M. So team actually makes $882K...but still loses plenty." -Adam Schefter.

Wonder how it counts against the cap?

[Parkbandit]

He is already suspended.

I'm not going to play bullshit word games. The wager is simple:

I believe that due to Deflategate, Tom Brady will not play at least one game this season.

You believe that Tom Brady will play all games, despite being implicated in Deflategate.

If I'm right, you will change your avatar with one of my choosing.

If you're right, I will change my avatar with one of your choosing.

It's really this simple.

Accept or decline?

[Ker_Thwap]

I'm not going to play bullshit word games. The wager is simple:

I believe that due to Deflategate, Tom Brady will not play at least one game this season.

You believe that Tom Brady will play all games, despite being implicated in Deflategate.

If I'm right, you will change your avatar with one of my choosing.

If you're right, I will change my avatar with one of your choosing.

It's really this simple.

Accept or decline?

Shit just got real, avatars are on the line!

[subzero]

Wonder how it counts against the cap?

I'm not sure if they get cap relief or not for suspensions. Probably wouldn't be much if they did.

[elcidcannon]

I'm not sure if they get cap relief or not for suspensions. Probably wouldn't be much if they did.

I highly highly doubt it. The Carolina Panthers got absolutely fucked with Greg Hardy's suspension last year. He was on the commissioner's exempt list so was still getting paid. Cost the team about $12m with no salary cap relief.

[Ker_Thwap]

I highly highly doubt it. The Carolina Panthers got absolutely fucked with Greg Hardy's suspension last year. He was on the commissioner's exempt list so was still getting paid. Cost the team about $12m with no salary cap relief.

That's exempt list though, and they had to pay him. Googled a bit, the new policy is no relief. However, I think that unpaid salary rolls into the following years calculations at least.

[Androidpk]

You mean he sat down with investigators for a full day answering questions? He'll be playing on opening day guaranteed.

No bullshit wordplay here. Either he starts or he doesn't.

[Parkbandit]

No bullshit wordplay here. Either he starts or he doesn't.

So, if he is suspended for game 5 and 6 due to his role in Deflategate.. what then?

[Ker_Thwap]

So, if he is suspended for game 5 and 6 due to his role in Deflategate.. what then?

Looks like he's only committing to a game 1 bet. I initially thought he had the stupid position, but it's reasonable that they'll let him play game 1, so as not to let the Patriots sabotage the banner ceremony with shenanigans. One of you will have to bend to make this bet happen!

I need to go check on what bets Vegas is offering. Not that I gamble, only out of curiosity.

[Parkbandit]

Looks like he's only committing to a game 1 bet. I initially thought he had the stupid position, but it's reasonable that they'll let him play game 1, so as not to let the Patriots sabotage the banner ceremony with shenanigans. One of you will have to bend to make this bet happen!

I need to go check on what bets Vegas is offering. Not that I gamble, only out of curiosity.

I'm simply saying that Brady will have at least 1 game he cannot play due to his role in Deflategate.

It's that simple.

[Androidpk]

So, if he is suspended for game 5 and 6 due to his role in Deflategate.. what then?

You're joking right? Why would they pick and choose what games he is suspended for? His suspension is already in effect and will be for the first 4 games unless it gets overturned. Brady appealing won't lift his suspension..

[elcidcannon]

You're joking right? Why would they pick and choose what games he is suspended for? His suspension is already in effect and will be for the first 4 games unless it gets overturned. Brady appealing won't lift his suspension..

PB is just trying to cover his bases if, for instance, the appeal process allows Brady to play while the appeal is active and a decision is not made until after the first 4 games of the season.

Your semantics leave some "loopholes" that PB is just trying to close in case he loses the bet.

[Archigeek]

You're joking right? Why would they pick and choose what games he is suspended for? His suspension is already in effect and will be for the first 4 games unless it gets overturned. Brady appealing won't lift his suspension..

If it gets appealed, it's very likely that the appeal won't be resolved by the start of the season, in which case he starts the season and gets suspended later. Happens all the time.

Personally I don't think he'll appeal, because it would lead to a discovery phase, where he and otheres would be compelled to cooperate.

[Androidpk]

PB is just trying to cover his bases if, for instance, the appeal process allows Brady to play while the appeal is active and a decision is not made until after the first 4 games of the season.

Your semantics leave some "loopholes" that PB is just trying to close in case he loses the bet.

What semantics!?? I was crystal clear when I said I guarantee he'll be playing opening day. PB said, "I'll take you up on that."

[elcidcannon]

What semantics!?? I was crystal clear when I said I guarantee he'll be playing opening day. PB said, "I'll take you up on that."

Sure; however, it's plausible that Brady will play on opening day but also be suspended during subsequent game/s (most likely due to the appeal process)

PB thinks he will miss some amount of playing time, at some point in the season, due to "his role in Deflategate."

[Ker_Thwap]

Sure; however, it's plausible that Brady will play on opening day but also be suspended during subsequent game/s (most likely due to the appeal process)

PB thinks he will miss some amount of playing time, at some point in the season, due to "his role in Deflategate."

I think we need a Venn diagram.

[Ker_Thwap]

I just saw my first picture of Ted Wells. Based on his mustache alone, it's more probable than not that he's a child molester.

[elcidcannon]

I think we need a Venn diagram.

I know right? Just trying to moderate lol

[Ker_Thwap]

7412 I rest my case.

[Androidpk]

I get what PB is getting at but he said he would take me up on my statement. If he doesn't want to do that anymore then fine, no skin off my back.

[Ker_Thwap]

7413

[Ker_Thwap]

Brady hired an anti trust attorney, scorched earth time.

[Androidpk]

Brady hired an anti trust attorney, scorched earth time.

Nice. Kessler is the Harvey Specter of sports lawsuits.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm thinking he'll sue for something real, like millions in lost wages, something related to employers can't demand personal cell phone records, or some such thing... or, he'll just retire, tell the NFL to pound sand, become a Mass Senator, then the president, and order a drone strike on Goodell.I am on record as being absolutely correct about the Patriots being cheaters, but I also support this outcome non-fatally.
In 2014, the Colts and Falcons both allegedly piped in additional crowd noise to further their venue's reputation for being stupidly loud. From my super quick googling, I haven't seen either further investigated.The Falcons were caught and fined $350k plus a fifth round draft pick. You haven't heard about it because the Falcons said "okay" and moved on with their lives, like grown-ups, instead of screaming and crying and whining for months. That's what really bugs me about the Patriots. Not that they cheat, not that they cheat so ineptly that they get caught, but that they cheat so ineptly and then do the "who me??? how dare you accuse me!!!" routine. Be a better cheat or a better man.

[Androidpk]

Latrin, the Patriots will confess to cheating when you admit to also being ClydeR. The clock is ticking.

[SHAFT]

Brady hired an anti trust attorney, scorched earth time.

Alright! I was hoping this story would carry on throughout the off season! Nice

[subzero]

You haven't heard about it because the Falcons said "okay" and moved on with their lives, like grown-ups, instead of screaming and crying and whining for months. That's what really bugs me about the Patriots.

It's almost like a Patriots' tradition... right up there with cheating.

http://cbssports.com/images/blogs/tom-brady-tuck-play-anniversary-raiders.jpg


Alright! I was hoping this story would carry on throughout the off season! Nice

Was gonna rep for the avatar, but I was told by the meanie-head forum-ghost that I couldn't.

...and because it's kinda funny:

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fphoto%2F2015%2F0512%2Fnfl_e_brady11_1296x 729.jpg&w=267

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/12874836/new-york-jets-fans-use-billboards-take-shot-new-england-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady

[RichardCranium]

It's hilarious the amount of excuses Patriots fans are coming up with now that they've been found, once again, cheating. However they beat their chest the most when the Saints were penalized for "Bountygate" with no definitive proof, all so Goodell could show his hardline stance on player safety in the midst of a legal battle with former NFL players.

[Ker_Thwap]

It's hilarious the amount of excuses Patriots fans are coming up with now that they've been found, once again, cheating. However they beat their chest the most when the Saints were penalized for "Bountygate" with no definitive proof, all so Goodell could show his hardline stance on player safety in the midst of a legal battle with former NFL players.

Williams was dirty as hell, he got ratted out by former players, they even had the guy on fricking tape on a documentary.

[Parkbandit]

I get what PB is getting at but he said he would take me up on my statement. If he doesn't want to do that anymore then fine, no skin off my back.

Has any player ever gone through arbitration to get his penalty reduced that played the first game but ended up being suspended for another game later on during the year, after arbitration is over?

The first game has nothing to do with this. Arbitration could last months and go into the season.. and when it's all over Brady could be suspended for his role in this stupidity.

I clearly believe that Brady will be suspended for at least one game after arbitration. You clearly believe that Brady is innocent and will serve no suspension.

I thought that was the bet.. given that I've spelled this out a number of times now. The first game honestly means shit in the scope of arbitration.

If you want this bet, I'm all in. If you want to play semantic bullshit that has nothing to do with this, then I'd say go find another sucker to try and swindle.

[Ker_Thwap]

Has any player ever gone through arbitration to get his penalty reduced that played the first game but ended up being suspended for another game later on during the year, after arbitration is over?

The first game has nothing to do with this. Arbitration could last months and go into the season.. and when it's all over Brady could be suspended for his role in this stupidity.

I clearly believe that Brady will be suspended for at least one game after arbitration. You clearly believe that Brady is innocent and will serve no suspension.

I thought that was the bet.. given that I've spelled this out a number of times now. The first game honestly means shit in the scope of arbitration.

If you want this bet, I'm all in. If you want to play semantic bullshit that has nothing to do with this, then I'd say go find another sucker to try and swindle.

Sorry dude, pk said he'd be playing on opening day. You waffled first. He said nothing about eventual suspensions, he said opening day, with no strings attached. You said "I'll take that bet" then you started waffling. Never go full John Kerry.

[Gelston]

The penalty is a combination of what Brady did and how he handled the investigation. He didn't cooperate and wouldn't turn over his electronic records.

It'll be arbitrated down to 2 games.

And PB said this first, before Pk said his opening game thing.

[Parkbandit]

Sorry dude, pk said he'd be playing on opening day. You waffled first. He said nothing about eventual suspensions, he said opening day, with no strings attached. You said "I'll take that bet" then you started waffling. Never go full John Kerry.

Clarifying isn't waffling. The spirit of the bet has nothing to do with which games Tom Brady will or will not be suspended for.. it has to do with what penalty will be eventually arbitrated down to Tom Brady for his role in Deflategate. I contend that Brady will eventually miss at least one game. Pk contends he will miss none.

Clarification is required when dealing with people like pk.. because he will find just enough wiggle room to proclaim that he is right. Much like the "I was never permabanned" is the same as "I did nothing wrong".

I expected this from him.. so it's no big deal. It's also the main reason why I didn't make this a monetary wager.

[Androidpk]

It's hilarious the amount of excuses Patriots fans are coming up with now that they've been found, once again, cheating. However they beat their chest the most when the Saints were penalized for "Bountygate" with no definitive proof, all so Goodell could show his hardline stance on player safety in the midst of a legal battle with former NFL players.

It is more than probable that you are an idiot.

[Androidpk]

Has any player ever gone through arbitration to get his penalty reduced that played the first game but ended up being suspended for another game later on during the year, after arbitration is over?

The first game has nothing to do with this. Arbitration could last months and go into the season.. and when it's all over Brady could be suspended for his role in this stupidity.

I clearly believe that Brady will be suspended for at least one game after arbitration. You clearly believe that Brady is innocent and will serve no suspension.

I thought that was the bet.. given that I've spelled this out a number of times now. The first game honestly means shit in the scope of arbitration.

If you want this bet, I'm all in. If you want to play semantic bullshit that has nothing to do with this, then I'd say go find another sucker to try and swindle.


Find another sucker? Is this planet Bizarro now? I was crystal clear with my statement. Opening day. You said you would take me up on it. Now you want out and you're trying to spin it into making me look like an ass? Stop being a little bitch.

[Gelston]

http://www.headingfortheexits.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/tom-brady.jpg

[Ker_Thwap]

And PB said this first, before Pk said his opening game thing.

Did PK immediately say, I'll take that bet? No, no he didn't.

[Ker_Thwap]

Clarifying isn't waffling. The spirit of the bet has nothing to do with which games Tom Brady will or will not be suspended for.. it has to do with what penalty will be eventually arbitrated down to Tom Brady for his role in Deflategate. I contend that Brady will eventually miss at least one game. Pk contends he will miss none.

Clarification is required when dealing with people like pk.. because he will find just enough wiggle room to proclaim that he is right. Much like the "I was never permabanned" is the same as "I did nothing wrong".

I expected this from him.. so it's no big deal. It's also the main reason why I didn't make this a monetary wager.

Logic 101 here. Pk does not content that he'll miss none. He'll play opening day does not equal he'll miss none. You may have tried to clarify what you meant, but that what he meant was clearly "will play opening day."

Seriously, you're the one trying to set up the sucker bet here. "Will play opening day" is a pretty low odds bet to start with, and you want to negotiate it down to any suspension at all during any game of the season? Take the bet, or don't, but don't blame your weird logic on anyone else.

[Gelston]

Logic 101 here. Pk does not content that he'll miss none. He'll play opening day does not equal he'll miss none. You may have tried to clarify what you meant, but that what he meant was clearly "will play opening day."

Seriously, you're the one trying to set up the sucker bet here. "Will play opening day" is a pretty low odds bet to start with, and you want to negotiate it down to any suspension at all during any game of the season? Take the bet, or don't, but don't blame your weird logic on anyone else.

I think it is pretty obvious that Pb is saying that Brady will miss a game due to the current happenings. This is why the terms are set up prior. Stop being a fucking bitch, Thwap.

[Ker_Thwap]

I think it is pretty obvious that Pb is saying that Brady will miss a game due to the current happenings. This is why the terms are set up prior. Stop being a fucking bitch, Thwap.

Yes, it's very obvious that PB is saying that Brady will miss a game. Pk responded saying "he'll play opening day." Two completely different opinions, correct? Yes, the answer is correct. Pk did not say, you're wrong, and I challenge you to an internet duel at high noon, he just spouted off an opinion.

At this point PB jumped on pk's opinion and challenged it. Therefore, the bet should necessarily be on the veracity of pk's opinion.

Stop being wrong.

[Atlanteax]

1) PK says Brady will play *all* the games in the season (ie not miss any) ... vs PB saying Brady will miss at least one

2) PK says Brady will play Game 1 (which would imply that PB believes Brady will miss Game 1, if takes it)

PB is framing the bet as #1, seems like PK wants #2

[Gelston]

Yes, it's very obvious that PB is saying that Brady will miss a game. Pk responded saying "he'll play opening day." Two completely different opinions, correct? Yes, the answer is correct. Pk did not say, you're wrong, and I challenge you to an internet duel at high noon, he just spouted off an opinion.

At this point PB jumped on pk's opinion and challenged it. Therefore, the bet should necessarily be on the veracity of pk's opinion.

Stop being wrong.

Stop being a bitch.

[RichardCranium]

Williams was dirty as hell, he got ratted out by former players, they even had the guy on fricking tape on a documentary.Link?

[RichardCranium]

It is more than probable that you are an idiot.Do you have any reasons to give for this assumption?

[Ker_Thwap]

Link?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bountygate

[Parkbandit]

Logic 101 here. Pk does not content that he'll miss none. He'll play opening day does not equal he'll miss none. You may have tried to clarify what you meant, but that what he meant was clearly "will play opening day."

Logic is clearly not your strong suit. Here's his previous post before "opening day":


Here is my prediction. Brady is going to sue the NFL for defamation of character and penalty and fines will be overturned.

So, clearly PK believes that Brady will get no penalty and the Patriots will get no fine. We're talking about Deflategate and how his 4 game suspension FOR HIS ROLE IN DEFLATEGATE will be overturned.

We're not talking about injuries.. we're not talking about if he will be the starter or will someone beat him out.. we're not talking about him being traded and becoming a bench warmer. We're talking about how Brady will be punished.

Do you believe, after arbitration, that Brady will still be suspended for at least a game?

PB: Yes
PK: No


Seriously, you're the one trying to set up the sucker bet here. "Will play opening day" is a pretty low odds bet to start with, and you want to negotiate it down to any suspension at all during any game of the season? Take the bet, or don't, but don't blame your weird logic on anyone else.

I clarified the wager to be about what we are actually talking about.. Brady and his penalty. There are many examples of arbitration lasting for months, which would bring us right into the season.

So, let's say by tomorrow, Brady appeals. Lawyers get together and discuss an independent arbitrator (or not.. Goodell's choice in this case) and it's dragged on for 4 months. This brings us to game #3. Brady plays the first 2 games.. he loses his arbitration and has to serve the original 4 game suspension starting week 3 through week 7. He played opening game... but clearly in the context of the discussion I'm right and PK is wrong.

It's ok though.. I'm fine with dropping the entire thing. I didn't expect PK to live up to his obligation, which is why I offered something he could actually afford.

[Ker_Thwap]

Logic is clearly not your strong suit. Here's his previous post before "opening day":



So, clearly PK believes that Brady will get no penalty and the Patriots will get no fine. We're talking about Deflategate and how his 4 game suspension FOR HIS ROLE IN DEFLATEGATE will be overturned.

We're not talking about injuries.. we're not talking about if he will be the starter or will someone beat him out.. we're not talking about him being traded and becoming a bench warmer. We're talking about how Brady will be punished.

Do you believe, after arbitration, that Brady will still be suspended for at least a game?

PB: Yes
PK: No



I clarified the wager to be about what we are actually talking about.. Brady and his penalty. There are many examples of arbitration lasting for months, which would bring us right into the season.

So, let's say by tomorrow, Brady appeals. Lawyers get together and discuss an independent arbitrator (or not.. Goodell's choice in this case) and it's dragged on for 4 months. This brings us to game #3. Brady plays the first 2 games.. he loses his arbitration and has to serve the original 4 game suspension starting week 3 through week 7. He played opening game... but clearly in the context of the discussion I'm right and PK is wrong.

It's ok though.. I'm fine with dropping the entire thing. I didn't expect PK to live up to his obligation, which is why I offered something he could actually afford.

You suck at basic communication. He never offered a bet. You suggested a bet based on his specific post that you actually quoted. What he said before has no meaning towards the bet. You were both talking about different bets, you were thinking general, he was thinking specific. We get it, you got confused, no biggy.

[Androidpk]

Again, planet fucking Bizarro.

[subzero]

Letter of the law vs spirit of the law. If Proto believes there will be no penalty for Brady, what fucking difference does it make about game one? Obviously PB believes there will be at least one game missed, but it might not be the first game of the season because of the arbitration process (which has nothing to do with the 'spirit' of this wager; no penalty vs penalty).

If someone expects there to be no penalty, why get hung up on the first game? He'll be there for all of them, so accounting for a potential suspension being delayed by the arbitration process should have zero effect on the expected outcome. If you're right, he'll be there from one to sixteen and you win. If you're wrong, you lose.

[Androidpk]

Letter of the law vs spirit of the law. If Proto believes there will be no penalty for Brady, what fucking difference does it make about game one? Obviously PB believes there will be at least one game missed, but it might not be the first game of the season because of the arbitration process (which has nothing to do with the 'spirit' of this wager; no penalty vs penalty).

If someone expects there to be no penalty, why get hung up on the first game? He'll be there for all of them, so accounting for a potential suspension being delayed by the arbitration process should have zero effect on the expected outcome. If you're right, he'll be there from one to sixteen and you win. If you're wrong, you lose.

Why get hung up on the first game? Because that was my statement. Brady will play the first game. Then PB said I'll take you up on that. It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal!

[Methais]

https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/11265022_927272710652751_7398883411205875804_n.jpg ?oh=be8d2c75527a5ae9d878754fb4d08d04&oe=55C80247

In other news:
https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11041702_10153010772377535_7752822573417765056_n.j pg?oh=c18cdbcb634e41be2c36183bd8f42d8d&oe=560349AC

[Parkbandit]

Why get hung up on the first game? Because that was my statement. Brady will play the first game. Then PB said I'll take you up on that. It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal!

Ok.

Quick question: Do you believe that Tom Brady will be suspended for any games after it is all said and done?

[Androidpk]

http://i.imgur.com/aFjQYPH.jpg

[Androidpk]

Ok.

Quick question: Do you believe that Tom Brady will be suspended for any games after it is all said and done?

I've already stated, on the first page of this thread, that the penalties will be overturned.

[Ker_Thwap]

All penalties? You're high!

[Androidpk]

All penalties? You're high!

All. And no, I am completely sober :(

[Parkbandit]

You suck at basic communication. He never offered a bet. You suggested a bet based on his specific post that you actually quoted. What he said before has no meaning towards the bet. You were both talking about different bets, you were thinking general, he was thinking specific. We get it, you got confused, no biggy.

I'm fine that this is your take away from an entire conversation.

Sometimes special people get confused when we're talking about a subject with big words in it like Suspension and Arbitration and are forced to focus on the smaller words that they are more familiar with like Day and Play.

Here little fella, have a cookie:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-94XK-zMZLFI/Tk5ekLtwDgI/AAAAAAAADs4/dEjtNbQsvXc/s400/Cookie.gif

[Atlanteax]

Ok.

Quick question: Do you believe that Tom Brady will be suspended for any games after it is all said and done?


I've already stated, on the first page of this thread, that the penalties will be overturned.

Okay, so there we have it:

Parkbandit = Brady will miss at least one game due to 'Deflate-gate' suspension
Androidpk = Brady will *not* miss a game due to 'Deflate-gate' suspension

[Parkbandit]

I've already stated, on the first page of this thread, that the penalties will be overturned.

Fantastic.

So, would you care to make a wager on this? I believe that Tom Brady will be suspended at least one game as a result of his role in "Deflategate".

[Kithus]

It's more probably than not that the two of you are taking this shit way too seriously.

[Ker_Thwap]

Letter of the law vs spirit of the law. If Proto believes there will be no penalty for Brady, what fucking difference does it make about game one? Obviously PB believes there will be at least one game missed, but it might not be the first game of the season because of the arbitration process (which has nothing to do with the 'spirit' of this wager; no penalty vs penalty).

If someone expects there to be no penalty, why get hung up on the first game? He'll be there for all of them, so accounting for a potential suspension being delayed by the arbitration process should have zero effect on the expected outcome. If you're right, he'll be there from one to sixteen and you win. If you're wrong, you lose.

It's about ethics in betting. :saint2: You can believe something, but not be confident enough want to bet on it. When someone offers you a bet with better odds, a normal human would then take that bet with better odds that has been offered.

[Ker_Thwap]

It's more probably than not that the two of you are taking this shit way too seriously.

Avatars are are stake, I say avatars!

[Androidpk]

Fantastic.

So, would you care to make a wager on this? I believe that Tom Brady will be suspended at least one game as a result of his role in "Deflategate".

No, not with you. Your personal attacks were completely unnecessary so I have no interest in making any sort of wager with you now.

However if anyone else wants to take me up on that, suspension or no suspension, for avatars, I am game.

[Parkbandit]

No, not with you. Your personal attacks were completely unnecessary so I have no interest in making any sort of wager with you now.

However if anyone else wants to take me up on that, suspension or no suspension, for avatars, I am game.

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/2091-nooooooo.jpg

http://www.feelingoodtees.com/Assets/ProductImages/PS_0483W_STUPID_KNEW.jpg

[Ker_Thwap]

Adam Schefter has a source saying that it's going down to zero.

http://nesn.com/2015/05/adam-schefter-source-predicts-tom-bradys-suspension-will-be-overturned/

[Androidpk]

Believe me, my feelings are far from hurt.

[RichardCranium]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bountygate

Cute. But there was was zero definitive proof. The New Orleans Saints were dead last in the league in penalties and ejections.

[RichardCranium]

It is more than probable that you are an idiot.

Again, can you offer any compelling arguments for your opinion?

[Ker_Thwap]

Cute. But there was was zero definitive proof. The New Orleans Saints were dead last in the league in penalties and ejections.

See the thing is, I fully believe that someone in the Patriots organization was doing something wrong. I believe someone in the Saints organization was doing something wrong.

In both cases, I think the league punishment was a shotgun approach, that sprayed the innocent along with the guilty. In point of fact, a whole bunch of Saints and ex Saints were later exonerated. It's not really as black and white as you seem to be proposing.

[Thondalar]

Cute. But there was was zero definitive proof. The New Orleans Saints were dead last in the league in penalties and ejections.

So they indefinitely suspended a Defensive Coordinator, suspended a head coach for a year, fined the team half a million dollars, and stripped draft picks with no definitive proof?

I thought there was an audio tape of Williams telling his players to injure people?

[Thondalar]

See the thing is, I fully believe that someone in the Patriots organization was doing something wrong. I believe someone in the Saints organization was doing something wrong.

In both cases, I think the league punishment was a shotgun approach, that sprayed the innocent along with the guilty. In point of fact, a whole bunch of Saints and ex Saints were later exonerated. It's not really as black and white as you seem to be proposing.

Eh, the Players' Association got them all off the hook. Not the same as not being guilty. I mean, you have half the league, retired players, even supposed targets of these bounties coming out saying "yeah, there are bounties in the NFL, but it's no big deal, everyone does it", and then you have Vilma and a few other Saints swearing under oath that no such thing exists...I dunno, just struck me as kinda odd.

[Astray]

I thought there was an audio tape of Williams telling his players to injure people?

Remember when a coach could tell his players he wants them to destroy the other team? When he'd tell them that he wants to make widows of their wives?

Gone are the good ol' days.

[Thondalar]

Remember when a coach could tell his players he wants them to destroy the other team? When he'd tell them that he wants to make widows of their wives?

Gone are the good ol' days.

That's a little different from telling your players to specifically target trouble areas, like Williams telling his players to focus on a guy with a history of concussions, or go after the knees of a guy that's had knee surgery. Surely you can understand the difference.

[RichardCranium]

That's a little different from telling your players to specifically target trouble areas, like Williams telling his players to focus on a guy with a history of concussions, or go after the knees of a guy that's had knee surgery. Surely you can understand the difference.

Coaches say that shit all the time in pre-game motivational speeches. There is zero evidence that the players transferred the words of that speech onto the field of play. None whatsoever.

[subzero]

Good lord, all this betting nonsense isn't even worthy of a pic, so... /facepalm

[Astray]

That's a little different from telling your players to specifically target trouble areas, like Williams telling his players to focus on a guy with a history of concussions, or go after the knees of a guy that's had knee surgery. Surely you can understand the difference.

The concussion thing I can understand as being fucked. That's a guys brain your players are trying to damage. The knee surgery thing is scummy too but sometimes shit happens and I'm no professional ref or anything but I'd imagine it'd be hard to call.

I can tell the difference between the two, I'm more referring to how someone can cry about the examples I gave as being indirectly telling people to cause injuries.

[RichardCranium]

The concussion thing I can understand as being fucked. That's a guys brain your players are trying to damage. The knee surgery thing is scummy too but sometimes shit happens and I'm no professional ref or anything but I'd imagine it'd be hard to call.

I can tell the difference between the two, I'm more referring to how someone can cry about the examples I gave as being indirectly telling people to cause injuries.

I take it you aren't familiar with locker room coachspeak.

[subzero]

Coaches say that shit all the time in pre-game motivational speeches. There is zero evidence that the players transferred the words of that speech onto the field of play. None whatsoever.

I think there are two mentalities here. The first being along the lines of, "Hit'em so fucking hard (within the permitted limits) they not only don't want to play, but they can't because you might have hurt'em" while the other is specifically looking to injure or re-injure another player. The former I don't believe has the intent to really injure someone. You can hurt people and knock them out of a game without breaking a leg or blowing out a knee. It's more of a beat-their-asses mentality opposed to let's-cripple-them.

[Astray]

I take it you aren't familiar with locker room coachspeak.

Not entirely. I was never really into sports. I tried out and always got passed over because I'm a skinny guy.

[subzero]

Not entirely. I was never really into sports. I tried out and always got passed over because I'm a skinny guy.

Don't lie, nigga! You tried to roll a D20 to see if you'd catch the ball and they hauled you off the field with quickness.

[Astray]

Don't lie, nigga! You tried to roll a D20 to see if you'd catch the ball and they hauled you off the field with quickness.

More like I would get hit so hard I'd literally go flying.

[Thondalar]

The concussion thing I can understand as being fucked. That's a guys brain your players are trying to damage. The knee surgery thing is scummy too but sometimes shit happens and I'm no professional ref or anything but I'd imagine it'd be hard to call.

I can tell the difference between the two, I'm more referring to how someone can cry about the examples I gave as being indirectly telling people to cause injuries.

Football is a violent sport. Even in Pop Warner the coaches tell you to demolish the other guys...but it's a generalization. Williams specifically targeted specific injuries to specific players.

[Ker_Thwap]

Coaches say that shit all the time in pre-game motivational speeches. There is zero evidence that the players transferred the words of that speech onto the field of play. None whatsoever.

If you want to suggest that your team was too incompetent to make the hits, uhmm fine?

[RichardCranium]

I think there are two mentalities here. The first being along the lines of, "Hit'em so fucking hard (within the permitted limits) they not only don't want to play, but they can't because you might have hurt'em" while the other is specifically looking to injure or re-injure another player. The former I don't believe has the intent to really injure someone. You can hurt people and knock them out of a game without breaking a leg or blowing out a knee. It's more of a beat-their-asses mentality opposed to let's-cripple-them.

Hoever, there is zero proof that the Saints took to heart the coaches speech and went out and intentionally injured anyone. Again, they were dead last in both penalties and personal fouls that year, all the way through the Superbowl.

[JackWhisper]

Football is a violent sport. Even in Pop Warner the coaches tell you to demolish the other guys...but it's a generalization. Williams specifically targeted specific injuries to specific players.

That made me laugh, because when I was in high school I played yard football one weekend and I tackled a kid, Jerry.

He got up and someone was like AH! JERRY"S BLEEDING FROM HIS BACK!

Damn Adam, how hard did you hit him?!

I hit him so hard I popped some of his backne, apparently.

SO funny.

[RichardCranium]

If you want to suggest that your team was too incompetent to make the hits, uhmm fine?

So now your argument is that they were too incompetent to intentionally hurt an opposing player? That's interesting.

Does your argument also apply to the (now twice) cheating Patriots? Because it's just as fucking ridiculous.

[Ker_Thwap]

Hoever, there is zero proof that the Saints took to heart the coaches speech and went out and intentionally injured anyone. Again, they were dead last in both penalties and personal fouls that year, all the way through the Superbowl.

...and Brady completed more yards after they randomly added air to the ball. These are both very low standards of proof. So, you think he's a guilty cheater, and your Saints are saints? Be consistent.

It's all football, it's all good.

[Thondalar]

Coaches say that shit all the time in pre-game motivational speeches. There is zero evidence that the players transferred the words of that speech onto the field of play. None whatsoever.

I played football from the age of 9 through my first year of college. I never once had a coach tell me to focus on an opposing player's ACL (as Williams did Crabtree on tape), never once had a coach tell me to focus on knocking out a player with a history of concussion (as Williams did [receiver] Kyle Williams on tape), never once had a coach tell me he would pay me for hitting a QB in the head (as Williams did Smith on tape).

I understand fully that the NFL is on a different level, but I don't see that being normal. Neither did the NFL, apparently.

[Ker_Thwap]

So now your argument is that they were too incompetent to intentionally hurt an opposing player? That's interesting.

Does your argument also apply to the (now twice) cheating Patriots? Because it's just as fucking ridiculous.

No, apparently that's your argument, not mine. I get it, my team are dirty cheaters, your team are paragons of honor defending the virtue of Italian virgins. Got it.

Edit: Italian virgins.
7416

[JackWhisper]

No, apparently that's your argument, not mine. I get it, my team are dirty cheaters, your team are paragons of honor defending the virtue of Italian virgins. Got it.

Edit: Italian virgins.
7416

Heath Ledger approves from the grave, Thwap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XILi5K8nSc

[subzero]

Hoever, there is zero proof that the Saints took to heart the coaches speech and went out and intentionally injured anyone. Again, they were dead last in both penalties and personal fouls that year, all the way through the Superbowl.

I wasn't really getting into that aspect. Just pointing out that there's a difference between saying, "Let's go kill these fuckers" and "#32 has a busted ankle, hit that every time you can. Kick it, knee it, land on it, whatever is needed". I'm not familiar enough with the Saints thing to say one way or another what they were told and subsequently took from it.

[Ker_Thwap]

Heath Ledger approves from the grave, Thwap.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XILi5K8nSc

My DVD of this movie died. I've been delaying replacing it, thinking I should convert everything to some sort of digital storage system. Figure eventually CDs will go the way of the VCR.

[Thondalar]

My DVD of this movie died. I've been delaying replacing it, thinking I should convert everything to some sort of digital storage system. Figure eventually CDs will go the way of the VCR.

Great movie. Heath Ledger...man, what a great talent. So sad.

[Latrinsorm]

He'll be playing on opening day guaranteed.
The first game has nothing to do with this.:lol:

[Ker_Thwap]

http://wellsreportcontext.com/mackinnons-scientific-conclusion/

[Parkbandit]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/14/tom-brady-files-appeal-four-game-suspension/kkGA5Iz9AVhWkLq7D9HkOO/story.html

Brady appeals.

[Ker_Thwap]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/14/tom-brady-files-appeal-four-game-suspension/kkGA5Iz9AVhWkLq7D9HkOO/story.html

Brady appeals.

Only the very first step. The NFL gets to choose the arbitrator, I don't think anyone trusts them to choose someone neutral at this point.

[Ker_Thwap]

Oh, and just for fun. http://yourteamcheats.com/ Someone clearly has too much time on their hands.

[Archigeek]

Thought this article was interesting, particularly considering it was a Boston Globe article:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/13/patriots-were-punished-for-cover/4KCNOBJBG32HBS8QtBNOvM/story.html#

[Androidpk]

Sloppy journalism.

[Ker_Thwap]

Thought this article was interesting, particularly considering it was a Boston Globe article:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/13/patriots-were-punished-for-cover/4KCNOBJBG32HBS8QtBNOvM/story.html#

Local sports talk radio is full of this stuff too. The same hosts are flip flopping opinions daily, trying to stir up ratings by spinning the info. in every which way. It's a good day to sell advertising.

One thing that I heard today, that this article seems to get wrong is the whole "refused second interview" deal. Apparently, they had the phone records before the first interview.

[Androidpk]

Yellow journalism makes me nauseous.

[subzero]

Yellow journalism makes me nauseous.

Wat you have agains Asian journaris?

[Androidpk]

Wat you have agains Asian journaris?

Their writing is sroppy.

[Ker_Thwap]

Wat you have agains Asian journaris?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yellow_Kid

The more you know...

[Androidpk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yellow_Kid

The more you know...

The Yellow King reigns supreme.

[Archigeek]

Local sports talk radio is full of this stuff too. The same hosts are flip flopping opinions daily, trying to stir up ratings by spinning the info. in every which way. It's a good day to sell advertising.

One thing that I heard today, that this article seems to get wrong is the whole "refused second interview" deal. Apparently, they had the phone records before the first interview.

I was just surprised to see the criticism of the Patriots by a Boston paper. I just assumed they were all pro-Patriots like the New England radio station site you linked to earlier. I'm sure local media is mostly on full on Patriots patriotism. I would imagine that sells better locally.

[Ker_Thwap]

I was just surprised to see the criticism of the Patriots by a Boston paper. I just assumed they were all pro-Patriots like the New England radio station site you linked to earlier. I'm sure local media is mostly on full on Patriots patriotism. I would imagine that sells better locally.

Nah, alternate sources in Boston are busy mocking their competitors for being homers. One host has Steeler roots, another is a Cleveland fan, it's the Howard Stern shock jock theory, where they just wind the listeners up. Even within stations the morning show might mock the afternoon show, it's all pretty cut throat. Most are jaded professionals who care more about having a story, than what the story is. Then they'll all reverse positions the next day and stir up some more advertising.

[subzero]

Do they really expect people to believe that the guy was referred to as, "The Deflator" because he was losing/wanted to lose weight? This isn't a murder trial where they have to be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

[Androidpk]

Do they really expect people to believe that the guy was referred to as, "The Deflator" because he was losing/wanted to lose weight? This isn't a murder trial where they have to be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

He's a witch! Buuuurn him!!!1

[subzero]

He's a witch! Buuuurn him!!!1

Look at it like this. The "punishment" is actually putting money in the Patriots'/Kraft's pocket. Four game suspension saves them ~1.88M, -1M for the 'fine', and they're already up ~880k. Add in the lack of having to pay next year's first rounder and they're up even more cash!

edit: We should burn the idiot that started the Go Fund Me to pay the billionaire's fine levied against his billion dollar (just a guess, but gotta be close) NFL franchise that pays for itself with Brady's suspension.

[Androidpk]

Look at it like this. The "punishment" is actually putting money in the Patriots'/Kraft's pocket. Four game suspension saves them ~1.88M, -1M for the 'fine', and they're already up ~880k. Add in the lack of having to pay next year's first rounder and they're up even more cash!

How much weed have you smoked in the last 10 years?

[subzero]

How much weed have you smoked in the last 10 years?

Way more than enough to be psychotic. Still doesn't change the numbers.

[Androidpk]

Way more than enough to be psychotic. Still doesn't change the numbers.


You could be schizophrenic. I'm worried for you now.

[Wesley]

I think this thread's followed its natural progression long enough for me to bring up something only loosely related: Exactly when and why the fuck did we start accepting them adding "gate" to the end of every sports issue? It's stupid enough that we tolerate it in politics. There is a legal separation of sports and state mandated in the US Constitution. If I may quote verbatim from the Magna Carta: "You can't add bullshit buzzwords to the end of football scandals to drum up extra hits on the internet. It's dumb."

[Androidpk]

Buzzwords = clicks

Clicks = $$$

[SHAFT]

Look at it like this. The "punishment" is actually putting money in the Patriots'/Kraft's pocket. Four game suspension saves them ~1.88M, -1M for the 'fine', and they're already up ~880k. Add in the lack of having to pay next year's first rounder and they're up even more cash!

edit: We should burn the idiot that started the Go Fund Me to pay the billionaire's fine levied against his billion dollar (just a guess, but gotta be close) NFL franchise that pays for itself with Brady's suspension.

The patriots don't care about the money and they'll likely be 2-2 when Brady comes back. Which is fine.

This deflate-gate shit is a massive smear on their golden boys reputation. It's like finding out captain America cheats on his taxes. Tom Brady a cheater? Get out.

[Androidpk]

The patriots don't care about the money and they'll likely be 2-2 when Brady comes back. Which is fine.

This deflate-gate shit is a massive smear on their golden boys reputation. It's like finding out captain America cheats on his taxes. Tom Brady a cheater? Get out.

Nah, only twats who already have a massive hard on of hate for the Pats will care one bit and their opinion counts for shit. Besides, Brady won't miss any games.

[drauz]

7419

[Archigeek]

The patriots don't care about the money and they'll likely be 2-2 when Brady comes back. Which is fine.

This deflate-gate shit is a massive smear on their golden boys reputation. It's like finding out captain America cheats on his taxes. Tom Brady a cheater? Get out.

You mean like Adrian Peterson a child beater? No way.

[subzero]

The patriots don't care about the money

Of course they don't. Like I said in the edit, Kraft is worth billions and the club is probably worth around a billion, too. Just tryin to make the best out of a bad situation for Pats fans!

[subzero]

You mean like Adrian Peterson a child beater? No way.

Let's ask Darren Sharper!

[Ardwen]

Gooddell as arbitrator, this is going to wind up in court. Anything to keep the FL in the news in the offseason. Unless of course anyone thinks Gooddell is neutral of course.

[Ker_Thwap]

The "deflator" line is weird. In context, it was sent from McNally (the fat one) to Jastremski (the skinny one) at halftime of the Green Bay game, after McNally saw Jastremski appear on the TV screen. It read "deflate and give somebody that jacket."

What the hell does that mean? According to the Pats, it's a joke. Jastremski, much like our Androidpk, is a scrawny ass young man. Apparently, in some gyms, pumping up muscles is called inflating. McNally, the fat old guy, calls himself the inflator, because he easily puts on weight. There's even a text in which Jastremski calls him a "Dorito dink." Likewise, McNally calls Jastremski, the deflator because he's a scrawny ass kid and incapable of being an inflator. So, basically, fat guy is just giving shit to skinny guy.

My conjecture: "Give the jacket to someone" might be part of his on field duties to hand out those cold weather jackets to the players, or maybe about selling for profit the official jacket that he was wearing? (There are other text clues that these two, were all about stealing/snagging game gear and selling it whenever possible.) Who the hell knows, it's a weird statement. Maybe he was drunk at halftime and thought it was a hilarious statement? Maybe it was deflate the football (at half time?) and give the jacket to someone? It's still really weird.

Back to the report: The Wells report made a point that McNally, often responded to texts at a much later time, and out of order. Why is this necessary to put into a report? Because seemingly, they really, really wanted to use this text out of context and give it a sinister context. This is completely fucked up in my opinion. There were context clues, so they made an excuse to flat out ignore them.

Do I buy either explanation entirely? It seems more probable that a fat guy is giving a young guy shit for being scrawny, and is telling him to profit from the official gear jacket that appeared on TV. The context makes little sense for deflating footballs, at halftime, on national TV. It kind of makes sense from the context of a drunk old guy giving shit to his friend.

Look at it this way, I call Pk a stoner all the time on these boards, does anyone believe that I'm suggesting that he actually buries infidels up to their neck and stones them? Context matters.

[Parkbandit]

Only the very first step. The NFL gets to choose the arbitrator, I don't think anyone trusts them to choose someone neutral at this point.

http://media3.giphy.com/media/iKkUkjlcxCizu/giphy.gif

[Ker_Thwap]

Look at it like this. The "punishment" is actually putting money in the Patriots'/Kraft's pocket. Four game suspension saves them ~1.88M, -1M for the 'fine', and they're already up ~880k. Add in the lack of having to pay next year's first rounder and they're up even more cash!

edit: We should burn the idiot that started the Go Fund Me to pay the billionaire's fine levied against his billion dollar (just a guess, but gotta be close) NFL franchise that pays for itself with Brady's suspension.

Like you said, the million is chump change to them. They actually lose a great deal more if it ever gets to the point where advertisers don't want to be associated with them because of repeated smear campaigns from the league. If your main advertiser goes from Bank of America to McNally's Weight Loss Center of Concord NH, then the franchise won't be worth a billion for long.

Edit: The Gofundme guy is offering moral support to his team. It's feel good slacktivism at it's finest, and we all know how I feel about slacktivism.

[Androidpk]

I'm not scrawny, fatty. 6'0, 170 lbs (+/-)

[Ker_Thwap]

I'm not scrawny, fatty. 6'0, 170 lbs (+/-)

I'm not... aerodynamic.

[Atlanteax]

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/05/14/tom-brady-files-appeal-four-game-suspension/kkGA5Iz9AVhWkLq7D9HkOO/story.html

Brady appeals.

Goodell is a joke.

*He* wrote the resolutions (apparently) and now appointed himself as the arbitrator... ooohh-kay.

[Ker_Thwap]

Goodell is a joke.

*He* wrote the resolutions (apparently) and now appointed himself as the arbitrator... ooohh-kay.

In this case he really is an idiot. By having Vincent hand down the initial penalty, he's put himself in a no win situation. If he reverses the penalty, it's because he's Kraft's buddy, if he keeps the penalties, it's because he ordered the hit to start with. Did he really think there wouldn't be an appeal?

Edit: Maybe there's something I'm missing. Can Brady simply reject the arbitration and go directly to court now? Is this a way of helping it get settled before the season starts?

[Archigeek]

Was anyone else shocked by the level of compensation Goodell gets? Holy shit.

I agree that he's a fool to not hand this off. A wealthy fool, but still it isn't good for him or the league to pretend he should be arbitrating at all. This only guarantees it will end up in court, unless there are reasons that the Patriots don't want it to go to court.

[Parkbandit]

Was anyone else shocked by the level of compensation Goodell gets? Holy shit.

It's a multi-billion company and is easily the most popular professional sport in the US.

So no, I'm not shocked at all.


I agree that he's a fool to not hand this off. A wealthy fool, but still it isn't good for him or the league to pretend he should be arbitrating at all. This only guarantees it will end up in court, unless there are reasons that the Patriots don't want it to go to court.

He's not acting as the actual arbitrator in this case, since he's not impartial. It's his choice whether or not this gets arbitrated and he's taken it upon himself to hear the counter argument.

[Latrinsorm]

The "deflator" line is weird. In context, it was sent from McNally (the fat one) to Jastremski (the skinny one) at halftime of the Green Bay game, after McNally saw Jastremski appear on the TV screen. It read "deflate and give somebody that jacket."

What the hell does that mean? According to the Pats, it's a joke. Jastremski, much like our Androidpk, is a scrawny ass young man. Apparently, in some gyms, pumping up muscles is called inflating. McNally, the fat old guy, calls himself the inflator, because he easily puts on weight. There's even a text in which Jastremski calls him a "Dorito dink." Likewise, McNally calls Jastremski, the deflator because he's a scrawny ass kid and incapable of being an inflator. So, basically, fat guy is just giving shit to skinny guy.

My conjecture: "Give the jacket to someone" might be part of his on field duties to hand out those cold weather jackets to the players, or maybe about selling for profit the official jacket that he was wearing? (There are other text clues that these two, were all about stealing/snagging game gear and selling it whenever possible.) Who the hell knows, it's a weird statement. Maybe he was drunk at halftime and thought it was a hilarious statement? Maybe it was deflate the football (at half time?) and give the jacket to someone? It's still really weird.

Back to the report: The Wells report made a point that McNally, often responded to texts at a much later time, and out of order. Why is this necessary to put into a report? Because seemingly, they really, really wanted to use this text out of context and give it a sinister context. This is completely fucked up in my opinion. There were context clues, so they made an excuse to flat out ignore them.

Do I buy either explanation entirely? It seems more probable that a fat guy is giving a young guy shit for being scrawny, and is telling him to profit from the official gear jacket that appeared on TV. The context makes little sense for deflating footballs, at halftime, on national TV. It kind of makes sense from the context of a drunk old guy giving shit to his friend.

Look at it this way, I call Pk a stoner all the time on these boards, does anyone believe that I'm suggesting that he actually buries infidels up to their neck and stones them? Context matters.Some additional context: balls being at lower than legal pressure, as if they had been... deflated.

[Ker_Thwap]

Some additional context: balls being at lower than legal pressure, as if they had been... deflated.

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[Androidpk]

When your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Don't you have cherry pie to be eating?

[Androidpk]

http://i.imgur.com/gZPx37W.jpg

[subzero]

I wonder what they got away with when they won the first two. Other than having to have a rule made for them to specifically contradict the traditional fumble rule, of course.

[Parkbandit]

I've already stated, on the first page of this thread, that the penalties will be overturned.


All penalties? You're high!


All. And no, I am completely sober :(

Wrong. Kraft isn't even going to appeal.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12913741/robert-kraft-says-new-england-patriots-appeal-deflategate-punishment

[Wrathbringer]

I wonder what they got away with when they won the first two. Other than having to have a rule made for them to specifically contradict the traditional fumble rule, of course.

They filmed other team's practices, for one.

[Ker_Thwap]

They filmed other team's practices, for one.

Citation needed.

[subzero]

Wrong. Kraft isn't even going to appeal.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12913741/robert-kraft-says-new-england-patriots-appeal-deflategate-punishment

Brady and the Player's Association are still going to appeal, so it's still possible his suspension is reduced. They say the team's decision not to appeal won't affect Brady's appeal, but you've got to think it makes it more difficult for him to get off the hook.


They filmed other team's practices, for one.

I figured that was a given.

[Parkbandit]

Brady and the Player's Association are still going to appeal, so it's still possible his suspension is reduced. They say the team's decision not to appeal won't affect Brady's appeal, but you've got to think it makes it more difficult for him to get off the hook.


They are appealing Brady's penalty, not the New England Patriot's penalty. Kraft isn't going to appeal that ruling.

So "all the penalties will be overturned" is incorrect.

[SHAFT]

Brady will miss some games. I wouldn't be shocked if goodell sticks with the original 4 games. It's pretty obvious to anyone who isn't biased Brady is lying. 4 games sounds right for trying to bs the NFL.

[Parkbandit]

Brady will miss some games. I wouldn't be shocked if goodell sticks with the original 4 games. It's pretty obvious to anyone who isn't biased Brady is lying. 4 games sounds right for trying to bs the NFL.

This was all self inflicted. He could have easily gotten out ahead of this and no one would give a crap about it.

[subzero]

So "all the penalties will be overturned" is incorrect.

Indeed. I wasn't really getting into all of that, though. We all know what Proto flosses with and trying to reason with him in irregard to the Patriots/Brady is futile.

[Ker_Thwap]

This was all self inflicted. He could have easily gotten out ahead of this and no one would give a crap about it.

I suspect Brady was setting up a career in Politics after his NFL career. It's the only possible reason to move from sunny California to ugly Massachusetts. So basically, he'd have had to sell out a lot more than his NFL reputation, and admit to cheating.

Even if it's a bullshit jaywalking violation, it would reflect badly on his integrity. Especially if he didn't commit the violation to start with. If his political stance ends up being about anti NSA privacy rights, then turning over his phone because his employer illegally demanded it wouldn't help much either.

It's just a theory of course, but I still expect Brady to sue the hell out of the NFL for every bit of compensation he's entitled to.