If ya ain't cheatin, ya ain't tryin!

[elcidcannon]

I've been out of this thread for a while and am too lazy to read back.

Did the bet whether or not Brady would face suspension ever get finalized?

[subzero]

I suspect Brady was setting up a career in Politics after his NFL career. It's the only possible reason to move from sunny California to ugly Massachusetts. So basically, he'd have had to sell out a lot more than his NFL reputation, and admit to cheating.

Even if it's a bullshit jaywalking violation, it would reflect badly on his integrity. Especially if he didn't commit the violation to start with. If his political stance ends up being about anti NSA privacy rights, then turning over his phone because his employer illegally demanded it wouldn't help much either.

It's just a theory of course, but I still expect Brady to sue the hell out of the NFL for every bit of compensation he's entitled to.

Lying, doing one thing while promoting another, breaking laws... this is counter to politics how, exactly?


I've been out of this thread for a while and am too lazy to read back.

Did the bet whether or not Brady would face suspension ever get finalized?

Heh, no. The avatar stakes were too high and the wager itself far too complicated for an agreement to be made.

[Ker_Thwap]

I've been out of this thread for a while and am too lazy to read back.

Did the bet whether or not Brady would face suspension ever get finalized?

Nope. They were mean to each other and it all fell apart.

[Ker_Thwap]

Lying, doing one thing while promoting another, breaking laws... this is counter to politics how, exactly?

Yeah, pretty much. I'm sure he'd still get elected as a Mass politician, but his national ratings among the non sports fans dropped from 80% positive to Bill O'Reilly negative.

[Parkbandit]

I suspect Brady was setting up a career in Politics after his NFL career. It's the only possible reason to move from sunny California to ugly Massachusetts. So basically, he'd have had to sell out a lot more than his NFL reputation, and admit to cheating.

Even if it's a bullshit jaywalking violation, it would reflect badly on his integrity. Especially if he didn't commit the violation to start with. If his political stance ends up being about anti NSA privacy rights, then turning over his phone because his employer illegally demanded it wouldn't help much either.

It's just a theory of course, but I still expect Brady to sue the hell out of the NFL for every bit of compensation he's entitled to.

Thing is: He didn't have to admit to cheating. "I like the balls inflated to the lowest amount within the rules. I would never tell someone to under inflate a ball, just keep it on the lower side of the scale."

I honestly don't think he would or did cheat.. he just likes the football a little under inflated. And it's not like it's a competitive advantage at all.

[Wrathbringer]

Thing is: He didn't have to admit to cheating. "I like the balls inflated to the lowest amount within the rules. I would never tell someone to under inflate a ball, just keep it on the lower side of the scale."

I honestly don't think he would or did cheat.. he just likes the football a little under inflated. And it's not like it's a competitive advantage at all.

Michael Strahan disagrees. Says it's easier to catch, hold onto, and can be thrown harder if under inflated. Also said any player would notice an under inflated ball if they picked it up. I dunno, but makes sense to me.

[Ker_Thwap]

Thing is: He didn't have to admit to cheating. "I like the balls inflated to the lowest amount within the rules. I would never tell someone to under inflate a ball, just keep it on the lower side of the scale."

I honestly don't think he would or did cheat.. he just likes the football a little under inflated. And it's not like it's a competitive advantage at all.

He made an initial statement, to the effect of this is all silly, I didn't cheat. You want him to phrase it a certain way? How would that change anything?

[Whirlin]

Right after deflategate started, didn't Aaron Rodgers come out and say that all quarterbacks have a ball preference, and then say that he actually likes his footballs slightly overinflated?

[elcidcannon]

Right after deflategate started, didn't Aaron Rodgers come out and say that all quarterbacks have a ball preference, and then say that he actually likes his footballs slightly overinflated?

I remember hearing something like that.

[Androidpk]

Right after deflategate started, didn't Aaron Rodgers come out and say that all quarterbacks have a ball preference, and then say that he actually likes his footballs slightly overinflated?

Yes, he did.

[Parkbandit]

He made an initial statement, to the effect of this is all silly, I didn't cheat. You want him to phrase it a certain way? How would that change anything?

If I have to explain it to you.. you probably still wouldn't understand.

Suffice to say, there is a difference between what he said and how he acted.. and what he could have said and how he could have acted.

[Parkbandit]

Here is my prediction. Brady is going to sue the NFL for defamation of character and penalty and fines will be overturned.

Strike 1


You mean he sat down with investigators for a full day answering questions? He'll be playing on opening day guaranteed.

Strike 2


Which is why an independent investigation is going to overturn this garbage.

Big ol' wiffer.

[Atlanteax]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13331590/tom-brady-4-game-suspension-upheld-roger-goodell


In announcing the decision, Goodell cited new information that on or shortly before March 6, Brady directed that the cellphone he had used for the prior four months be destroyed. The NFL said in the statement that Brady destroyed the phone even though he was aware that investigators had requested access to text messages and other electronic information that had been stored on the phone.

According to the NFL, Brady exchanged nearly 10,000 text messages, none of which can now be retrieved. The NFL also said in its statement that the destruction of the cellphone was not disclosed until June 18, almost four months after investigators first sought information from him.

Goodell said in the statement that Brady "went beyond a mere failure to cooperate in the investigation and supported a finding that he had sought to hide evidence of his own participation in the scheme." Based on Ted Wells' report and the evidence presented at that hearing, Goodell also said that Brady was aware of, and took steps to support, the actions of other team employees to deflate game footballs below the levels allowed under NFL rules.

Brady is expected to challenge the decision in federal court and seek an injunction that will allow him to play while his case works its way through the courts. The sides had engaged in settlement talks but couldn't find common ground, which wasn't a surprise.

Brady, according to sources, remains adamant that he will not accept a suspension and that any punishment must specify that it's for failing to cooperate with an NFL investigation and not for breaking rules with footballs.

(more content

Okay, if he *deliberately* destroyed evidence to hide/cover any involvement he had, I shift towards that he deserves the 4-games suspension vs it being a Goddell-railroad.

Looks like Brady is hung up on not being defined as a cheater (the insistence that he did not break the rules with underinflated footballs).

[subzero]

After reading the appeal report, it looks like Brady would have served himself better had he just accepted his punishment/guilt the first time around. I'm not surprised, but I'm sure there has to be at least someone around here who thought thrashing around in the web of lies would have bettered his case.

[Ker_Thwap]

A phone is relevant as evidence? Any pertinent information would be held by the carrier, not on the physical phone. This is more bad science bull from the NFL.

[subzero]

A phone is relevant as evidence? Any pertinent information would be held by the carrier, not on the physical phone. This is more bad science bull from the NFL.

You mean the 10k text messages that were requested from the carrier and which were said, by the carrier, to be unavailable? Yeah, destroying the phone on the day of the interview in which information on that phone is going to be requested... don't be retarded. If you can truly take all of the things in the reports and not see what happened, you're wearing some serious Bradian Sand Goggles and I suggest removing them before surgery is required.

[Ker_Thwap]

You mean the 10k text messages that were requested from the carrier and which were said, by the carrier, to be unavailable? Yeah, destroying the phone on the day of the interview in which information on that phone is going to be requested... don't be retarded. If you can truly take all of the things in the reports and not see what happened, you're wearing some serious Bradian Sand Goggles and I suggest removing them before surgery is required.

Does YOUR employer have the right to YOUR private phone information? Let's say if they wanted to know if you parked in your bosses parking space?

Doesn't matter if it's 100K text messages. Wouldn't Brady have to allow the carrier to turn over the messages? It's private information, I know that I'd tell my employer to get fucked. Maybe you're a little pussy and would just say sure thing boss, scan through my personal information for your little witch hunt?

[Ardwen]

Largest problem with the whole thing is they only precedent for a refused cell phone was in the Brett Favre case, Favre broke an actual law, and was fined a whole 50k, I think going from 50k to 4 games is beyond extreme. The court case is going to be interesting.

[Latrinsorm]

Does YOUR employer have the right to YOUR private phone information? Let's say if they wanted to know if you parked in your bosses parking space? Doesn't matter if it's 100K text messages. Wouldn't Brady have to allow the carrier to turn over the messages? It's private information, I know that I'd tell my employer to get fucked. Maybe you're a little pussy and would just say sure thing boss, scan through my personal information for your little witch hunt?You have moved the goalposts in two subtle but crucial ways.

First, no one has claimed Goodell had the right to Brady's phone or text messages. You are demanding that subzero defend a point he never made.

Second, Brady did not merely decline to provide the information, he went out of his way to destroy it, then didn't choose to mention that he had over the months he was asked for it.

Consider if your wife was being questioned in connection to a crime you were alleged to have commit. As your wife her testimony would be privileged anyway and so she doesn't testify: that's not that suspicious. If you (instruct your assistant to) murder her after the police question her, that's pretty suspicious.

[Ker_Thwap]

You have moved the goalposts in two subtle but crucial ways.

First, no one has claimed Goodell had the right to Brady's phone or text messages. You are demanding that subzero defend a point he never made.

Second, Brady did not merely decline to provide the information, he went out of his way to destroy it, then didn't choose to mention that he had over the months he was asked for it.

Consider if your wife was being questioned in connection to a crime you were alleged to have commit. As your wife her testimony would be privileged anyway and so she doesn't testify: that's not that suspicious. If you (instruct your assistant to) murder her after the police question her, that's pretty suspicious.

Fuck you, because you debate like an ass. Goodell had no right, that's the point. It's flat out illegal for employers to demand private cell data as a condition of employment.

It's his phone, he can do what he wants with it, at any point in time at all.

Consider, that your analogy is pathetic. You're talking about a legal venue, not an employer employee relationship.

Consider this is your annual notice that I'm not debating with your shitty debating self.

[RSR]

You mad bro?

[Ker_Thwap]

You mad bro?

I just lost 10 pounds, I want a damned cupcake, now!

[subzero]

Does YOUR employer have the right to YOUR private phone information?

Nope. They have no right to such a thing. I don't work under the NFL's CBA, though. I'm not sure what obligations he might have had there, if any, to work with the league. The league has taken the stance that Brady did not fully cooperate with their investigation and the 'new' evidence that he had his phone destroyed further strengthens that position; he did more than 'not fully cooperate', he fucking destroyed evidence. Derp.

However, if I had nothing to hide by revealing pertinent messages, I'd probably be inclined to do so if I were in Brady's shoes. He quite obviously is trying to keep his reputation nice and pristine, so destroying a phone with potential evidence in an effort to hide said evidence looks like an extremely poor move on his part.


Let's say if they wanted to know if you parked in your bosses parking space?

Phones have nothing to do with where one parks. They do, however, contain text messages between individuals. Messages that, in this instance, would obviously not have helped Brady's case. What other reason is there to have the phone destroyed? I know, I know... it's all a part of his regular handling of phones when he gets a new one. The timing of it all was just puuuuure coincidence.


Doesn't matter if it's 100K text messages. Wouldn't Brady have to allow the carrier to turn over the messages? It's private information,

http://i.imgur.com/85G2cN8.jpg

Check out that last sentence for me, if you will.


I know that I'd tell my employer to get fucked. Maybe you're a little pussy and would just say sure thing boss, scan through my personal information for your little witch hunt?

If I were an innocent Tom Brady intent on proving my innocence and maintaining my reputation, I'd probably be inclined to provide the information needed to do so. If they failed to keep my information secure, they'd have a shitstorm on their hands, especially in light of...

http://i.imgur.com/Pxo9juC.jpg

"He did so despite the very substantial protections offered by the investigators to maintain the privacy of his personal information."

If I'm Michael Jackson, I go to court and fight child molestation charges levied against me in order to prove my innocence rather than pay out millions of dollars to keep things out of court. Some actions make you look really guilty, don't they?

[subzero]

Fuck you, because you debate like an ass. Goodell had no right, that's the point. It's flat out illegal for employers to demand private cell data as a condition of employment.

You seem to believe this phone thing was the only piece of evidence against Brady in all of this. Remove the sand goggles, please. You look ridiculous. Also, he's not being fired. He's not the NFL's Pete Rose.


It's his phone, he can do what he wants with it, at any point in time at all.

You could probably say the same thing about Goodell and the NFL. The League belongs to the team owners and they can do whatever they want with it. They, along with the NFLPA, have given control of the league to a commissioner (Goodell). This commissioner has decided that Brady has "engaged in conduct detrimental to the integrity of, and public confidence in, the game of professional football."

[Latrinsorm]

Fuck you, because you debate like an ass.Ah, the Aristotle Gambit. A fine (albeit hoary) bit of opening rhetoric.
Goodell had no right, that's the point. It's flat out illegal for employers to demand private cell data as a condition of employment. It's his phone, he can do what he wants with it, at any point in time at all.Brady was not suspended for failing to provide the data, he was suspended for cheating at foot-ball. The NFL gave him the option of exonerating himself with said cell phone data, Brady destroyed it and hid that he did so. That he had the right to do so is irrelevant, which is why nobody but you brought it up.
Consider, that your analogy is pathetic. You're talking about a legal venue, not an employer employee relationship. Consider this is your annual notice that I'm not debating with your shitty debating self.I'm a teacher, not a debater. If you do not want to learn, that is your prerogative. :)

[Ker_Thwap]

Nope. They have no right to such a thing. I don't work under the NFL's CBA, though. I'm not sure what obligations he might have had there, if any, to work with the league. The league has taken the stance that Brady did not fully cooperate with their investigation and the 'new' evidence that he had his phone destroyed further strengthens that position; he did more than 'not fully cooperate', he fucking destroyed evidence. Derp.

However, if I had nothing to hide by revealing pertinent messages, I'd probably be inclined to do so if I were in Brady's shoes. He quite obviously is trying to keep his reputation nice and pristine, so destroying a phone with potential evidence in an effort to hide said evidence looks like an extremely poor move on his part.



Phones have nothing to do with where one parks. They do, however, contain text messages between individuals. Messages that, in this instance, would obviously not have helped Brady's case. What other reason is there to have the phone destroyed? I know, I know... it's all a part of his regular handling of phones when he gets a new one. The timing of it all was just puuuuure coincidence.



http://i.imgur.com/85G2cN8.jpg

Check out that last sentence for me, if you will.



If I were an innocent Tom Brady intent on proving my innocence and maintaining my reputation, I'd probably be inclined to provide the information needed to do so. If they failed to keep my information secure, they'd have a shitstorm on their hands, especially in light of...

http://i.imgur.com/Pxo9juC.jpg

"He did so despite the very substantial protections offered by the investigators to maintain the privacy of his personal information."

If I'm Michael Jackson, I go to court and fight child molestation charges levied against me in order to prove my innocence rather than pay out millions of dollars to keep things out of court. Some actions make you look really guilty, don't they?

Your employer asks for something that's illegal for them to demand. Several sources have said that the NFL contract does not require one to sign over that particular right. Game over, right there. He's decided he's not going to give the data, they have zero legal right to the data, it is therefore irrelevant what he does with the data that he's already decided the NFL will never get.

Your boss was told that you parked in his spot, he wants to know if you're involved in a conspiracy with the janitor to park in his spot. Of course it makes no sense. Nor does Goodell's witch hunt to determine if Brady is involved in a conspiracy. That's the point of my analogy, neither particularly makes sense.

So, do you give up your phone? You're rich enough to retire, you don't actually need the job. The phone may contain nude pics of your wife, it might contain texts to another potential employer, it might contain silly comments to your daughter. Do you?

[Ker_Thwap]

You seem to believe this phone thing was the only piece of evidence against Brady in all of this. Remove the sand goggles, please. You look ridiculous. Also, he's not being fired. He's not the NFL's Pete Rose.



You could probably say the same thing about Goodell and the NFL. The League belongs to the team owners and they can do whatever they want with it. They, along with the NFLPA, have given control of the league to a commissioner (Goodell). This commissioner has decided that Brady has "engaged in conduct detrimental to the integrity of, and public confidence in, the game of professional football."

... and yet, they took care to further slander him with the irrelevant phone destroyed announcement. Knowing that certain people will mindlessly pounce on that tidbit to support their agenda, despite it's complete and total irrelevance.

[Latrinsorm]

... and yet, they took care to further slander him with the irrelevant phone destroyed announcement. Knowing that certain people will mindlessly pounce on that tidbit to support their agenda, despite it complete and total irrelevance.Truth is an absolute defense against slander. Irrelevance is irrelevant. :D

[Ker_Thwap]

Truth is an absolute defense against slander. Irrelevance is irrelevant. :D

Why do you hate the fourth amendment?

[SHAFT]

Largest problem with the whole thing is they only precedent for a refused cell phone was in the Brett Favre case, Favre broke an actual law, and was fined a whole 50k, I think going from 50k to 4 games is beyond extreme. The court case is going to be interesting.

Brady's incident jeopardizes the integrity of the game. Favre not so much. He just exposed his little Favre to the world.

[Ker_Thwap]

Brady's incident jeopardizes the integrity of the game. Favre not so much. He just exposed his little Favre to the world.

He did sexually harass a team employee. I guess you're cool with that as a league integrity issue?

[subzero]

Your employer asks for something that's illegal for them to demand.

Asking for and demanding are different things, but I'll say again, his electronic information was not the sole piece of condemning evidence. When you take the scattered puzzle pieces and begin to put them together, even with some missing piece here and there, you still end up with a picture clear enough to understand. I mean, if that puzzle is an image of a ship and there's a piece or two missing from the sail, you aren't going to argue that it's not an image of a ship, are you?


Several sources have said that the NFL contract does not require one to sign over that particular right. Game over, right there. He's decided he's not going to give the data, they have zero legal right to the data, it is therefore irrelevant what he does with the data that he's already decided the NFL will never get.

No one said they had a right to any of it. That's why it was requested and not demanded. If they had a right to that information, it would have been demanded and he'd have been forced to comply. Iririrregardless of rights, as Latrin said, you start shooting witnesses and you start to look guilty.


Goodell's witch hunt to determine if Brady is involved in a conspiracy. That's the point of my analogy, neither particularly makes sense.

I guess we're discounting "the deflator", "not going to espn... yet", the lack of extensive communication between Brady and the two equipment guys prior to this situation that then turned into Brady having multiple conversations with these people at much greater length than any prior communications, breaking protocol (you know, when dude took the balls into a restroom after leaving the officials... where he had access to the restrooms located in the area), the undisputed fact that these people would not do something to the balls that Brady didn't want done, etc etc. Yeah, you're right. This is a witch hunt for sure. Why would anyone think habitual line-toers, and occasionally busted cheaters, would have anything to hide here? Total witch hunt. The league and Goodell clearly hate Brady because of all the good he does the league.


The phone may contain nude pics of your wife,

Pretty sure you can find those on the internet.


it might contain texts to another potential employer,

Yeah, I'd probably want to hide things that proved people were 'tampering'.


it might contain silly comments to your daughter. Do you?

Sounds like something I'd want to keep hidden, for sure. Best to destroy the phone. It's not like I'm concerned at all about my reputation and/or legacy.

[subzero]

... and yet, they took care to further slander him with the irrelevant phone destroyed announcement. Knowing that certain people will mindlessly pounce on that tidbit to support their agenda, despite it's complete and total irrelevance.

I'd say that destroying evidence, whether anyone has a right to it or not, is pretty goddamn relevant.

[subzero]

Truth is an absolute defense against slander. Irrelevance is irrelevant. :D

You forgot an iririregardless!

"Iririregardless, irrelevance is irrelevant." That's how it should have went down.

[Ker_Thwap]

I'd say that destroying evidence, whether anyone has a right to it or not, is pretty goddamn relevant.

It's not evidence that the league is legally entitled to. How about his house, should he have allowed them access to his home office? Checking account statements? After all, he might have paid the equipment guys to murder someone too.

Thus, it's not evidence. It's just his phone.

As far as the rest of the evidence they do have. Let's start with football, gauges and science. Let's talk about zero evidence that Brady ever said deflate them below the required minimum or that anyone tampered with them after the official pre-game testing. Your ship, it's made out of a bit of driftwood and twine.

[SHAFT]

He did sexually harass a team employee. I guess you're cool with that as a league integrity issue?

No. Favre "harassing" a team employee had nothing to do with the integrity of the game. People will stop watching games if they feel cheating is occurring. No one gives a fuck about Favre sending nude shots to a no-name team employee.

Anyways, it's Brett Favre. Brett Favre is so loved he could've been the one who beheaded Nicole Simpson and no one would care.

[Whirlin]

He did sexually harass a team employee. I guess you're cool with that as a league integrity issue?
Probably sexting with Wilfork's wife... why else is she always on her phone?

[Ker_Thwap]

No. Favre "harassing" a team employee had nothing to do with the integrity of the game. People will stop watching games if they feel cheating is occurring. No one gives a fuck about Favre sending nude shots to a no-name team employee.

Anyways, it's Brett Favre. Brett Favre is so loved he could've been the one who beheaded Nicole Simpson and no one would care.

That's pretty much what it comes down to, the guy is loved so he can get away with a slap on the wrist for screwing with an actual human. No one is buying the integrity of the game bull. No one believes the league has integrity, no one believes the relative air pressure even matters. It's all a big publicity stunt.

[Ker_Thwap]

Probably sexting with Wilfork's wife... why else is she always on her phone?

That's hot.

[SHAFT]

The league is all about the shield. Anything that can potentially damage the NFL brand is to be met with with harsh and swift measures. That's why they penalize and fine people so harshly for late hits, head shots, and low hits to quarterbacks. The NFL is deeply concerned about concussion stuff, QB injuries, and cheating.

Is the NFL concerned with domestic violence? Yes. Only for PR's though. Roger Goodell doesn't care about Greg hardy smacking his girlfriend around, or ray rice going Mike Tyson on his then-fiancée. They only care about the public outcry, because it can damage the brand.

[subzero]

It's not evidence that the league is legally entitled to. How about his house, should he have allowed them access to his home office? Checking account statements? After all, he might have paid the equipment guys to murder someone too.

Thus, it's not evidence. It's just his phone.

You've got a special definition for evidence, apparently. To the rest of the world, who has a 'right' to any 'evidence' does not determine if something is evidence or not.


As far as the rest of the evidence they do have. Let's start with football, gauges and science. Let's talk about zero evidence that Brady ever said deflate them below the required minimum or that anyone tampered with them after the official pre-game testing. Your ship, it's made out of a bit of driftwood and twine.

Right, he never said to do it. And no one would do anything to the balls that Brady did not want done. Do you disagree with that statement?

Now, let's fast forward to where the Patriots balls were under-inflated when tested at halftime and the Colts balls were not. Science! The Patriots use different air that leaked from the ball while the air the Colts used stayed in the ball. Amazing! Go ahead and tell me how the people who determined weather conditions alone could not have caused such a significant loss of air (ya know, in one team's balls and not the other since they were playing in different parts of the country... oh... no. Same stadium. My bad) in the balls are wrong and their 'science' is flawed, professor.

[Ker_Thwap]

You've got a special definition for evidence, apparently. To the rest of the world, who has a 'right' to any 'evidence' does not determine if something is evidence or not.



Right, he never said to do it. And no one would do anything to the balls that Brady did not want done. Do you disagree with that statement?

Now, let's fast forward to where the Patriots balls were under-inflated when tested at halftime and the Colts balls were not. Science! The Patriots use different air that leaked from the ball while the air the Colts used stayed in the ball. Amazing! Go ahead and tell me how the people who determined weather conditions alone could not have caused such a significant loss of air (ya know, in one team's balls and not the other since they were playing in different parts of the country... oh... no. Same stadium. My bad) in the balls are wrong and their 'science' is flawed, professor.

If something is illegal, they can't demand for it as evidence. Legal evidence in a judicial trial differs from legal evidence in a employer/employee investigation.

The science has been proven. Measured air pressure is dependent on the actual pressure, the accuracy of the gauges, and the temperature. If you take one ball, let it get good and cold, bring it into a warm room and immediately test the pressure, it will be one number. If you test that same ball ten minutes later, the pressure reading will have gone up. The Patriots footballs were tested immediately, the Colts footballs were tested later, almost as an afterthought. Go apologize to your high school science teacher.

The only way the NFL could make the numbers work as cheating was to ignore their own trusted official and by simply assuming the worst possible combination of gauges were used.

I suspect if Tom were actually involved, he'd demand absolute perfection, and want all the footballs to be inflated to the exact same specifications. Because nothing would be more annoying to have one inflated low, and the next one inflated high. Consistency matters.

The NFL science is bullshit, but it's their league. Speaking of it being their league, the NFL hadn't once requested the cell phone of any other player accused of anything. What does that tell you about this being a Goodell witch hunt?

I can't tell if you're trolling me, or if you really are this stupid. I'm getting to the point where I'm going to have to assign you into the "Someone on the internet is wrong!" category, and start ignoring you.

[subzero]

If something is illegal, they can't demand for it as evidence. Legal evidence in a judicial trial differs from legal evidence in a employer/employee investigation.

The science has been proven. Measured air pressure is dependent on the actual pressure, the accuracy of the gauges, and the temperature. If you take one ball, let it get good and cold, bring it into a warm room and immediately test the pressure, it will be one number. If you test that same ball ten minutes later, the pressure reading will have gone up. The Patriots footballs were tested immediately, the Colts footballs were tested later, almost as an afterthought. Go apologize to your high school science teacher.

The only way the NFL could make the numbers work as cheating was to ignore their own trusted official and by simply assuming the worst possible combination of gauges were used.

I suspect if Tom were actually involved, he'd demand absolute perfection, and want all the footballs to be inflated to the exact same specifications. Because nothing would be more annoying to have one inflated low, and the next one inflated high. Consistency matters.

The NFL science is bullshit, but it's their league. Speaking of it being their league, the NFL hadn't once requested the cell phone of any other player accused of anything. What does that tell you about this being a Goodell witch hunt?

I can't tell if you're trolling me, or if you really are this stupid. I'm getting to the point where I'm going to have to assign you into the "Someone on the internet is wrong!" category, and start ignoring you.

They've never requested anyone's phone because previous instances of cheaters being caught did not involve a group of people scrambling to communicate and get things sorted out in order to cover up their actions. It'll be interesting to see how you try to defend this when it's shot down again, this time in federal court.

[Ker_Thwap]

They've never requested anyone's phone because previous instances of cheaters being caught did not involve a group of people scrambling to communicate and get things sorted out in order to cover up their actions. It'll be interesting to see how you try to defend this when it's shot down again, this time in federal court.

I LOL at you. Yeah, I'm sure no one else has ever scrambled to try to get their stories straight before, and I'm sure you know this. I'm sure the Saints weren't all scrambling to contact each other during the bounty gate deal.

The courts will be interesting. The NFL has taken the incredibly rare step of filing in court for a judge to uphold it's arbitration ruling BEFORE the union even protested the ruling. The NFLPA has filed with Judge Doty, who's been NFLPA friendly before.

The courts will rule, exclusively on union/labor/employment issues, not about the original guilt or innocence. It's going to be boring stuff, like why is an unprecedented penalty being imposed for an equipment issue, such as stickum on towels for example, vs. the ball pressure penalized with a 4 game suspension for a player vs. a $10,000 fine that was later overuled. It will be about allowing the NFL to have months to conduct an investigation, yet limiting the NFLPA exactly four hours to cross examine the many witnesses.

It won't be about issues such as Ted Wells, saying "I don't want the actual device" and the NFL saying, "but, but, the device was destroyed, I know we didn't want the device, but it was still destroyed!"

[Latrinsorm]

Why do you hate the fourth amendment?What does the Fourth Amendment have to do with slander?
If something is illegal, they can't demand for it as evidence. Legal evidence in a judicial trial differs from legal evidence in a employer/employee investigation.That's good, because the NFL didn't demand it.
The science has been proven. Measured air pressure is dependent on the actual pressure, the accuracy of the gauges, and the temperature. If you take one ball, let it get good and cold, bring it into a warm room and immediately test the pressure, it will be one number. If you test that same ball ten minutes later, the pressure reading will have gone up. The Patriots footballs were tested immediately, the Colts footballs were tested later, almost as an afterthought. Go apologize to your high school science teacher.I encourage you to ask your high school science teacher about Newton's Law of Cooling.

[Ker_Thwap]

What does the Fourth Amendment have to do with slander?That's good, because the NFL didn't demand it.I encourage you to ask your high school science teacher about Newton's Law of Cooling.

Glad to see you've finally admitted you're wrong.

[Latrinsorm]

I reiterated what I have said since the beginning; I was right then, I'm right now. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Atlanteax]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13570716/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-wins-appeal-nfl-deflategate

Tom Brady won vs Goofell

No Suspension

[subzero]

Yeah, that's awesome. Brady didn't know he faced a four game suspension for cheating, so he shouldn't be suspended. /facepalm

Kinda makes me wonder if I were to invent some sort of new crime if I could be prosecuted since I didn't have any idea what the repercussions would be.

[Androidpk]

Yeah, that's awesome. Brady didn't know he faced a four game suspension for cheating, so he shouldn't be suspended. /facepalm

Kinda makes me wonder if I were to invent some sort of new crime if I could be prosecuted since I didn't have any idea what the repercussions would be.

Riggity riggity wrecked, biii​iii​ttch!

[subzero]

Riggity riggity wrecked, biii​iii​ttch!

Look, OJ got off on some stupid technicality, too. We all know he killed his wife and Goldman. Just like we all know the Patriots are still cheaters and haven't won a championship without some sort of cheating scandal for quite some time.

[subzero]

"close off your anus every once and a while"

No. I enjoy allowing the dook to flow freely.

[Androidpk]

Look, OJ got off on some stupid technicality, too. We all know he killed his wife and Goldman. Just like we all know the Patriots are still cheaters and haven't won a championship without some sort of cheating scandal for quite some time.

Stop being a puffy vagina.

In other news the NFL is appealing the ruling, naturally, but they won't be seeking an injunction. Brady will be playing on opening day.

Just like I said he would.

[subzero]

Stop being a puffy vagina.

It is my belief that it is more probable than not that you believe I care about this more than I truly do. I thought it was pretty funny, in a sad sort of way, that they lifted his suspension because he didn't know he could be suspended for cheating. In regard to penalties, the rules say something along the lines of, "Including, but not limited to, a fine of $25,000." Does this mean that the phrase, "including, but not limited to" has no meaning in the judicial system? All penalties must be precisely spelled out?


In other news the NFL is appealing the ruling, naturally, but they won't be seeking an injunction. Brady will be playing on opening day.

Just like I said he would.

I'm slightly surprised they're going to appeal rather than just let it rest, but then again, they almost had to.

[Parkbandit]

LOL.

I figured you would show up in this thread, after you slinked out of it 2 months ago when the original ruling came down.

Grats.

[Androidpk]

It is my belief that it is more probable than not that you believe I care about this more than I truly do. I thought it was pretty funny, in a sad sort of way, that they lifted his suspension because he didn't know he could be suspended for cheating. In regard to penalties, the rules say something along the lines of, "Including, but not limited to, a fine of $25,000." Does this mean that the phrase, "including, but not limited to" has no meaning in the judicial system? All penalties must be precisely spelled out?



I'm slightly surprised they're going to appeal rather than just let it rest, but then again, they almost had to.

You keep mentioning that as if that was the only reason. Go read the Judge's ruling.

[Androidpk]

LOL.

I figured you would show up in this thread, after you slinked out of it 2 months ago when the original ruling came down.

Grats.

Uh huh

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?95949-If-ya-ain-t-cheatin-ya-ain-t-tryin!&p=1795009#post1795009

Strike!

[subzero]

You keep mentioning that as if that was the only reason. Go read the Judge's ruling.

Yeah, they didn't get to interview Pash and for some reason Goodell didn't allow them access to some files. He did screw up with denying the files and if Pash was so irrelevant, I'm not sure why they didn't allow him to be interviewed. It's a lot more interesting if we leave those things out.

[Androidpk]

http://i.imgur.com/2ggiymE.gif

[subzero]

Why are you showing us a gif that proves even his own team doesn't like him? Look how hard he's trying to keep that smile goin as people blow right by him!

[Parkbandit]

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/11990645_10153273132173020_5870545427316670559_n.j pg?oh=cdfbed4e4cb079057b3de52a6ad416c7&oe=567E60C2

[subzero]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Parkbandit again.

Stupid rep system... it needs some sort of reset timer.

[subzero]

The New England Patriots recently requested the reinstatement of the two staffers that were suspended in the wake of the team's deflated ball scandal following last season's AFC Championship. On Wednesday, the team got the news they were looking for.
Every game, all season

"Last week, the New England Patriots requested the reinstatement of both John Jastremski and Jim McNally. The Patriots have satisfied the league's requirements for reinstatement and the league has granted permission for the employees to return," the team said in a statement.

The NFL is appealing the nullification of Tom Brady's four game suspension, so we're not through with this story yet. But it appears that Jastremski and McNally's part of the story is now over. NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported Sunday that Troy Vincent, NFL Executive VP of Football Operations, formally requested to meet with Jastremski and McNally before reinstating them.

Rapoport reported Wednesday that Jastremski is now prohibited from handling footballs and McNally is barred from being a locker room attendant for officials or handling equipment.

Both men were cited in the Wells Report. Their texts and appearance on surveillance video were prominent in the Wells Report's findings.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

I refuse to believe there is a person from Boston who can but doesn't spell his name Yastrzemski.

[subzero]

Well, it's a little late, but it appears a judge with some sense actually found his way onto the scene...


The U.S. Court of Appeals handed down a decision on Monday morning that will reinstate the four-game suspension of New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady for his connection to deflated footballs used in the AFC Championship Game back in Jan. 2015.

Brady's suspension was nullified by U.S. District Judge Richard Berman back in September, just a week before the Patriots' first game of the 2015 regular season.

In a 33-page decision, the second circuit court's decision can be boiled down to the following statement:

"We hold that the commissioner properly exercised his broad discretion under the collective bargaining agreement and that his procedural rulings were properly grounded in that agreement and did not deprive Brady of fundamental fairness. Accordingly, we reverse the judgement of the district court and remand with instructions to confirm the award."


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655649/article/tom-bradys-fourgame-suspension-reinstated

[Keller]

I thought for sure this would be a Jesse Epstein thread.


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