US declassifies documents revealing Israel's nuclear weapon program

[Androidpk]

Woah, didn't see this one happening. US/Israel relations really have tanked.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/193175

[Wrathbringer]

Woah, didn't see this one happening. US/Israel relations really have tanked.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/193175

This administration has exhibited an extreme amount of retardation in 7 short years. Anyone who voted for obummer should have their voting privileges revoked. I.e., gays, women and minorities. They're obviously bad at this kind of thing.

[Atlanteax]

It has been known that Israel has nukes.

[Latrinsorm]

Yeah, but...

"US journalist Grant Smith petitioned to have the report published based on the Freedom of Information Act. Initially the Pentagon took its time answering, leading Smith to sue, and a District Court judge to order the Pentagon to respond to the request."

Check it out for yourself (http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/12/31/dod-fights-request-for-report-on-israels-nuclear-needs.htm). Note the part where the DoD said they were talking the release over with Israel in December of 2014.

[Androidpk]

Yeah, but...

"US journalist Grant Smith petitioned to have the report published based on the Freedom of Information Act. Initially the Pentagon took its time answering, leading Smith to sue, and a District Court judge to order the Pentagon to respond to the request."

Check it out for yourself (http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/12/31/dod-fights-request-for-report-on-israels-nuclear-needs.htm). Note the part where the DoD said they were talking the release over with Israel in December of 2014.


But how can we blame Obama?

[Wrathbringer]

But how can we blame Obama?

Hey, it happened on his watch, right?

[Tgo01]

Yeah, but...

"US journalist Grant Smith petitioned to have the report published based on the Freedom of Information Act. Initially the Pentagon took its time answering, leading Smith to sue, and a District Court judge to order the Pentagon to respond to the request."

Check it out for yourself (http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/12/31/dod-fights-request-for-report-on-israels-nuclear-needs.htm). Note the part where the DoD said they were talking the release over with Israel in December of 2014.

Obama has made it a pastime to ignore judges and FOIA requests, surely he could have continued the effort here.

[Wrathbringer]

Yeah, but...

"US journalist Grant Smith petitioned to have the report published based on the Freedom of Information Act. Initially the Pentagon took its time answering, leading Smith to sue, and a District Court judge to order the Pentagon to respond to the request."

Check it out for yourself (http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/12/31/dod-fights-request-for-report-on-israels-nuclear-needs.htm). Note the part where the DoD said they were talking the release over with Israel in December of 2014.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKsoXHYICqU

[Latrinsorm]

Let's see your list, Terry!

[Tgo01]

Let's see your list, Terry!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2015/03/18/ap-obama-administration-sets-new-record-for-denying-records/


Leak investigations, seizing phone records, using FOIA-dodging private e-mail addresses: The Obama administration routinely makes a mockery of its long-ago pledge to establish itself as the most transparent administration in U.S. history. Now comes another blow, via the Associated Press.

A piece by the wire service’s Ted Bridis reports that the administration “more often than ever censored government files or outright denied access to them under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act,” writes Bridis. And it has achieved this dubious milepost for the second consecutive year, according to the AP. Some key stats from the piece:

• In about a third of instances, the government conceded that initial decisions to withhold or censor documents were “improper under the law — but only when it was challenged.”

• The backlog of unanswered requests at year’s end went up 55 percent to 200,000-plus.

• “The government more than ever censored materials it turned over or fully denied access to them, in 250,581 cases or 39 percent of all requests.”

And then there’s the juicy part of the story, which needs no abridgment:

In emails that AP obtained from the National Archives and Records Administration about who pays for Michelle Obama’s expensive dresses, the agency blacked-out a sentence under part of the law intended to shield personal, private information, such as Social Security numbers, phone numbers or home addresses. But it failed to censor the same passage on a subsequent page.

The sentence: “We live in constant fear of upsetting the WH (White House).”

[Latrinsorm]

These materials were censored. Your argument is a bird.

[Archigeek]

250,000 requests and they only processed 50,000. I wonder how many employees it takes to process 50,000 requests in a year.

Also, blame him for what? What's the problem with releasing this info?

[Androidpk]

I think it is about time they admitted this information.

[Tgo01]

I think it is about time they admitted this information.

Yes because you have made it abundantly clear that you hate Israel for some reason.

http://www.ezilon.com/maps/images/asia/Israel-physical-map.gif

Point to where Israel made you touch it. It was on Elal, wasn't it?

[Androidpk]

Yeah, I hate Israel so much that the last two girls I dated are Jewish.

:jerkit:

[Tgo01]

Yeah, I hate Israel so much that the last two girls I dated are Jewish.

:jerkit:

Is that like you can't be racist because you have black friends?

[JackWhisper]

Jewish people only come from Israel?

Ya don't say...

[Androidpk]

Is that like you can't be racist because you have black friends?

I do have black friends, and friends that are gay and lesbian. I don't hate anyone so the fact that you think I hate Israel is a joke.

[Wrathbringer]

I do have black friends, and friends that are gay and lesbian.

Yes, but how many of those are not Back?

[Tgo01]

I don't hate anyone so the fact that you think I hate Israel is a joke.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/549/301/119.jpg

[Androidpk]

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/549/301/119.jpg


Don't you ever get tired of being a pathetic troll?

[Tgo01]

Don't you ever get tired of being a pathetic troll?

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001283833/jesus_haha_no_answer_1_xlarge.jpeg

[Archigeek]

I still don't get the concern. How many decades has the world known Israel had nukes? And this report is from the 80's? The only thing I find remarkable about this is that they developed them so quickly, which of course has no bearing on whether or not we should declassify a 30 year old report that doesn't really seem to reveal anything that was unknown. Unless I'm missing something, this doesn't really mean anything.

[Tgo01]

I still don't get the concern. How many decades has the world known Israel had nukes? And this report is from the 80's? The only thing I find remarkable about this is that they developed them so quickly, which of course has no bearing on whether or not we should declassify a 30 year old report that doesn't really seem to reveal anything that was unknown. Unless I'm missing something, this doesn't really mean anything.

It's not so much that Obama declassified this information, it's that Obama declassified it because he's acting like a child. Yet again.

They even kept aspects of the report regarding other countries like Italy classified. Why is that?

It's fine if you think Israel deserved this or whatever, but let's not pretend for one second this isn't all about Obama throwing a temper tantrum.

[Wrathbringer]

It's not so much that Obama declassified this information, it's that Obama declassified it because he's acting like a child. Yet again.

They even kept aspects of the report regarding other countries like Italy classified. Why is that?

It's fine if you think Israel deserved this or whatever, but let's not pretend for one second this isn't all about Obama throwing a temper tantrum.

Truth

[Warriorbird]

Highly important to the Breitbart and WorldNetDaily crowd.

[crb]

Only an idiot would look at this and not see it as having an obvious appearance of spite, due to the known animosity, culminating recently, between Obama and Netanjewhu (I'm not even trying, I know my limits). Maybe that is why people call him Bebe, even those we know can't be his good friends, because shit is easier to spell?

So your conclusions are as follows:

1. Obama is a spiteful child.
2. Obama is in such a bubble he doesn't realize how things look.

We have prior evidence of both, see his general behavior during many debates and his juvenile needling in many of his speeches (or see what he did to Jeri Ryan, yes that Jeri Ryan) for 1. But then we also have evidence of 2. I mean, this guy recently proposed taxing 529 college saving plans. He thought that would go over well.

Both ya, it has to be one of those two conclusions. It is either spite, or bad politics/international relations.

[Androidpk]

Only an idiot would look at this and not see it as having an obvious appearance of spite, due to the known animosity, culminating recently, between Obama and Netanjewhu (I'm not even trying, I know my limits). Maybe that is why people call him Bebe, even those we know can't be his good friends, because shit is easier to spell?

So your conclusions are as follows:

1. Obama is a spiteful child.
2. Obama is in such a bubble he doesn't realize how things look.

We have prior evidence of both, see his general behavior during many debates and his juvenile needling in many of his speeches (or see what he did to Jeri Ryan, yes that Jeri Ryan) for 1. But then we also have evidence of 2. I mean, this guy recently proposed taxing 529 college saving plans. He thought that would go over well.

Both ya, it has to be one of those two conclusions. It is either spite, or bad politics/international relations.


Would you consider the GOP letter to Iran to be a childish, spiteful action?

[Tgo01]

Would you consider the GOP letter to Iran to be a childish, spiteful action?

Probably but the two aren't even on the same level. Is this like you comparing different amendments in the constitution again? You really need to work on your analogies.

[Androidpk]

Probably but the two aren't even on the same level. Is this like you comparing different amendments in the constitution again? You really need to work on your analogies.

Stop being willfully stupid.

[Latrinsorm]

It's not so much that Obama declassified this information, it's that Obama declassified it because he's acting like a child. Yet again. They even kept aspects of the report regarding other countries like Italy classified. Why is that? All those countries are in NATO.
It's fine if you think Israel deserved this or whatever, but let's not pretend for one second this isn't all about Obama throwing a temper tantrum.Obama knew three and a half years ago that he would have beef with the Prime Minster of Israel, forced some journalist to file a FOIA request, forced the DoD to delay response to it, forced the same journalist to file a lawsuit, forced the judge hearing it to both rule in the journalist's favor AND grant the government a delay, and calculated every time period such that the end would coincide with said Prime Minister making a speech in front of Congress? That's what you're going with?
Both ya, it has to be one of those two conclusions. It is either spite, or bad politics/international relations.Or it's the law.

[Wrathbringer]

All those countries are in NATO.Obama knew three and a half years ago that he would have beef with the Prime Minster of Israel, forced some journalist to file a FOIA request, forced the DoD to delay response to it, forced the same journalist to file a lawsuit, forced the judge hearing it to both rule in the journalist's favor AND grant the government a delay, and calculated every time period such that the end would coincide with said Prime Minister making a speech in front of Congress? That's what you're going with?Or it's the law.

Obama IS the law. He is the law personified, the law made flesh, come down to dwell among men.

[Androidpk]

So apparently Obama is both inept and brilliant.

[Wrathbringer]

The documents could have been lost in emails on crashed servers or something like with any other number of scandals in the past 7 years, but they weren't. That, in and of itself, is suspicious.

[Tgo01]

All those countries are in NATO.

http://www.tildee.com/uploads/12-02-2013/40BA5C28-E00B-4856-BD70-783AE7382765.jpg

That's me searching for your point but coming up empty handed.


Obama knew three and a half years ago that he would have beef with the Prime Minster of Israel, forced some journalist to file a FOIA request, forced the DoD to delay response to it, forced the same journalist to file a lawsuit, forced the judge hearing it to both rule in the journalist's favor AND grant the government a delay, and calculated every time period such that the end would coincide with said Prime Minister making a speech in front of Congress? That's what you're going with?

You think I'm giving Obama entirely too much credit, I would never do such a thing. I think the timing just happened to be perfect and Obama said "Fuck that Jewish asshole. I'll show him. I know pk at least will have my back."


Or it's the law.

It's the law to process almost every single FOIA request, why is this one suddenly so special that it has to be released because "it's the law"? Again, it's fine if you want to run with this theory, Latrin, but let's stop pretending this didn't happen because Obama is a child trapped in a man's body who knew how to manipulate a bunch of morons into voting for him.

Twice.

[crb]

Would you consider the GOP letter to Iran to be a childish, spiteful action?

No. The GOP sent that letter to Iran because they don't like Iran, they don't trust Iran, and Iran is not our friend, its not personal. You can disagree with them, they can be wrong, but it isn't childish or spiteful.

Obama has a well documented personal animosity towards Bebe.

So even if it was just innocent and whatever, doing it now, looks really bad, and they should have at least realized that.

[crb]

Or it's the law.

Obama follow the law? You're adorable. They should put you on a poster hanging from a tree limb with your big adorable eyes.

[Androidpk]

No. The GOP sent that letter to Iran because they don't like Iran, they don't trust Iran, and Iran is not our friend, its not personal. You can disagree with them, they can be wrong, but it isn't childish or spiteful.

Obama has a well documented personal animosity towards Bebe.

So even if it was just innocent and whatever, doing it now, looks really bad, and they should have at least realized that.

And yet if the parties were reversed I'm pretty sure your opinion would as well. Gotta love partisan blinders.

[waywardgs]

Um... was there a country in the world that didn't already know israel had nukes?

[waywardgs]

And Netanyahu's nickname is Bibi, not Bebe. Baby.

[Tgo01]

Yeah, I hate Israel so much that the last two girls I dated are Jewish.

:jerkit:

I just realized something...isn't Msconstrew Jewish? Cause if you're counting her you're sort of proving my point about how you treat Jewish people...

[waywardgs]

No. The GOP sent that letter to Iran because they don't like Iran, they don't trust Iran, and Iran is not our friend, its not personal. You can disagree with them, they can be wrong, but it isn't childish or spiteful.

Obama has a well documented personal animosity towards Bebe.

So even if it was just innocent and whatever, doing it now, looks really bad, and they should have at least realized that.

THIS is cute.

[Parkbandit]

I just realized something...isn't Msconstrew Jewish? Cause if you're counting her you're sort of proving my point about how you treat Jewish people...

lol

[Parkbandit]

No. The GOP sent that letter to Iran because they don't like Iran, they don't trust Iran, and Iran is not our friend, its not personal. You can disagree with them, they can be wrong, but it isn't childish or spiteful.

Obama has a well documented personal animosity towards Bebe.

So even if it was just innocent and whatever, doing it now, looks really bad, and they should have at least realized that.

While I agree with you on the report being released.. I think you can easily view the GOP letter to Iran as being spiteful.

I love the Liberal outrage over it though....

http://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/070404/070404_assad_hmed_330a.grid-6x2.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

That's me searching for your point but coming up empty handed.Israel isn't in NATO. Sorry, I thought that was clear from context.
You think I'm giving Obama entirely too much credit, I would never do such a thing. I think the timing just happened to be perfect and Obama said "Fuck that Jewish asshole. I'll show him. I know pk at least will have my back."

It's the law to process almost every single FOIA request, why is this one suddenly so special that it has to be released because "it's the law"? Again, it's fine if you want to run with this theory, Latrin, but let's stop pretending this didn't happen because Obama is a child trapped in a man's body who knew how to manipulate a bunch of morons into voting for him.This one is so special because a federal judge ruled that it had to be released, and it's "suddenly" so because the judge ruled the report had to be released by February 12th (https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/4668014/SMITH_v_DEPARTMENT_OF_DEFENSE), which it was (http://rt.com/usa/232203-us-israel-nuclear-weapon/). Makes you wonder why it's a story now, a month and a half after the release, eh?
Obama follow the law? You're adorable. They should put you on a poster hanging from a tree limb with your big adorable eyes.I do feel like my eyes are my best feature, come to think of it.

[Tgo01]

Israel isn't in NATO. Sorry, I thought that was clear from context.

Why does that matter?


This one is so special because a federal judge ruled that it had to be released, and it's "suddenly" so because the judge ruled the report had to be released by February 12th (https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/case/4668014/SMITH_v_DEPARTMENT_OF_DEFENSE), which it was (http://rt.com/usa/232203-us-israel-nuclear-weapon/). Makes you wonder why it's a story now, a month and a half after the release, eh?

The government couldn't appeal it? The government couldn't redact everything but one line like they did for our NATO allies in the same report? Obama couldn't have just ignored the order like he does everything else?

[Latrinsorm]

Why does that matter?The FOIA's "subject of interest" was Israel. Mr. Smith could have requested information on the NATO countries too, but he didn't.
The government couldn't appeal it?It had exhausted its appeals, delays, and the patience of the Court.
The government couldn't redact everything but one line like they did for our NATO allies in the same report?No, for the reason stated in point one.
Obama couldn't have just ignored the order like he does everything else?Oh, Terry. You're embarrassed you're the dog wagged by the tail, and you're lashing out. Embrace the feeling, don't run from it. Maybe next time someone tries to gin you up into a frenzy you'll think twice.

[waywardgs]

Why does that matter?



The government couldn't appeal it? The government couldn't redact everything but one line like they did for our NATO allies in the same report? Obama couldn't have just ignored the order like he does everything else?

How is it that you believe Obama is personally handling foia requests and suits?

[Tgo01]

The FOIA's "subject of interest" was Israel. Mr. Smith could have requested information on the NATO countries too, but he didn't.

Visual representation of Latrin's argument:

http://www.negotiationlawblog.com/uploads/image/iStock_000005831123XSmall%5b1%5d(1).jpg


It had exhausted its appeals, delays, and the patience of the Court.

I'm sure it exhausted the patience of the court but I'm pretty sure the government hadn't exhausted its appeals. Try again.


No, for the reason stated in point one.

Oh come on Latrin, it's like you have zero knowledge on the subject. There have been countless examples of the government releasing FOIA documents where entire paragraphs and pages are redacted and the government cited national security or some other shit. I can only assume at this point you are trolling to sit there and tell everyone that the government had to release the document and they couldn't redact anything at all because some judge said so. Didn't Obama recently say an entire office/wing of the White House no longer had to comply with FOIA requests? Surely some judge in DC is gonna say that's bullshit and Obama is going to start fulfilling those requests again, right?


How is it that you believe Obama is personally handling foia requests and suits?

I'm sure he's briefed on the important ones, don't you? I would say declassifying this document is pretty important. I'm also sure Obama has some sway in the Pentagon, don't you?

[Tgo01]

And just in case Latrin needs proof that the government redacts entire documents here is a good example:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130117/07260121714/justice-department-complies-with-foia-request-gps-tracking-memos-hands-aclu-111-fully-redacted-pages.shtml

111 pages of black ink in compliance with the FOIA request.

"But this time it's different!!!"

The cry of the liberal pretending to be a Republican.

[Latrinsorm]

Visual representation of Latrin's argument:He requested information on Israel and got it. He didn't request information on NATO countries and didn't get it. Seems pretty straightforward, no?
I'm sure it exhausted the patience of the court but I'm pretty sure the government hadn't exhausted its appeals. Try again.I gave you the complete court proceedings. You can be pretty sure all you want, or you can read what the judge said in her own words.
Oh come on Latrin, it's like you have zero knowledge on the subject. There have been countless examples of the government releasing FOIA documents where entire paragraphs and pages are redacted and the government cited national security or some other shit. I can only assume at this point you are trolling to sit there and tell everyone that the government had to release the document and they couldn't redact anything at all because some judge said so. Didn't Obama recently say an entire office/wing of the White House no longer had to comply with FOIA requests? Surely some judge in DC is gonna say that's bullshit and Obama is going to start fulfilling those requests again, right?I didn't say the government couldn't redact anything at all. I said the government specifically couldn't redact the information regarding Israel's nuclear program. Why doesn't it fall under one of the FOIA exemptions when the Office of Administration does? I don't know, I'm not a legal expert... that's why we have judges. If you read the whole story about the President's recent statements on non compliance, it turns out that matter already went to court and was ruled in the government's favor, so it's not a great comparison to this story where the opposite occurred.

[Latrinsorm]

And just in case Latrin needs proof that the government redacts entire documents here is a good example:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130117/07260121714/justice-department-complies-with-foia-request-gps-tracking-memos-hands-aclu-111-fully-redacted-pages.shtml

111 pages of black ink in compliance with the FOIA request.

"But this time it's different!!!"

The cry of the liberal pretending to be a Republican.And the ACLU sued, and the judge ruled that that redaction was legal (https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/jones_memo_opinion_0.pdf) under exemptions 5 and 7E. Israel's nuclear program is not a technique or procedure of law enforcement, and it is not subject to attorney - work product privilege, so your comparison is not valid.

[waywardgs]

You should send him some more black markers. He probably just ran out or something.

[Tgo01]

Alright Latrin. I'll let you keep your lunch money this time because I have already sufficiently schooled you and you are now jumping through more hoops than lions at a Ringling Brothers performance and quite frankly I can't keep up with it all anymore.

[waywardgs]

And the ACLU sued, and the judge ruled that that redaction was legal (https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/assets/jones_memo_opinion_0.pdf) under exemptions 5 and 7E. Israel's nuclear program is not a technique or procedure of law enforcement, and it is not subject to attorney - work product privilege, so your comparison is not valid.

When are you going to learn that facts and what actually happened don't have anything to do with any of tgo's arguments?

[Tgo01]

When are you going to learn that facts and what actually happened don't have anything to do with any of tgo's arguments?

You mean like when Latrin said the government can't redact and I showed him a 100+ page document that was entirely redacted? Okay.

I have actually been pretty consistent in my arguments. The only one who has been changing his argument with every new post is Latrin.

[Tgo01]

I gave you the complete court proceedings. You can be pretty sure all you want, or you can read what the judge said in her own words.

Oh what the hell, one more.

You mean the link you provided where on Jan 8th the judge told the government they had until Feb 12th to inform the court whether or not they intended to withhold the document pursuant to 10 U.S.C. § 130c (link here for what that is by the way (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/130c)) (which by the way is exactly what I've been saying the government could do the entire time) then when the Feb 12th deadline came the judge said the parties must submit a joint status report indicating whether or not further litigation is needed then on Feb 26th the case was dismissed due to "Joint Stipulation of Settlement and Voluntary Dismissal filed by the parties."

So, in your very own link, you prove that the government could have fought this in court citing an exemption that deals with "certain sensitive information of foreign governments and international organizations" but chose not to.

We will never know whether or not the government would have won the case but it sure does seem strange that the government decided not to even fight it.

Is this sort of like your example of 96% of whites were against interracial marriage and your link turned out being 96% of Americans were against interracial marriage? :/

I'm beginning to think you just link shit and tell everyone what it says in the hopes that no one will actually click the link and challenge you on it. How long have you been getting away with this? :/

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/tzzmnndvl/Jumpingthroughhoops.png

[Latrinsorm]

You mean like when Latrin said the government can't redact and I showed him a 100+ page document that was entirely redacted? Okay.Like Andy confusing Amendments with each other, you are confused about the circumstances under which an FOIA request can and cannot result in a redacted document, and to what degree.
So, in your very own link, you prove that the government could have fought this in court citing an exemption that deals with "certain sensitive information of foreign governments and international organizations" but chose not to.When it comes to laws you've got to read the whole thing, Terry. You can't just assume this counts as "sensitive information of foreign governments", that term is explicitly defined in subsection (b) and this situation doesn't fit it. As said in the first article I linked, the DoD contacted Israel for their take on the matter. Obviously this was to see if Israel wanted to exercise (b)(3)(a). Just as obviously, they didn't, and so the information came out.
Is this sort of like your example of 96% of whites were against interracial marriage and your link turned out being 96% of Americans were against interracial marriage? :/I retracted that statement, if you'll recall. :)
I'm beginning to think you just link shit and tell everyone what it says in the hopes that no one will actually click the link and challenge you on it. How long have you been getting away with this? :/I am always of the hope that people will read what I (and they!) link, but I am also always prepared to explain to them the ways they haven't. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!

[Tgo01]

You can't just assume this counts as "sensitive information of foreign governments"

You're right:


that's why we have judges.



As said in the first article I linked, the DoD contacted Israel for their take on the matter. Obviously this was to see if Israel wanted to exercise (b)(3)(a). Just as obviously, they didn't, and so the information came out.

As the Latrin Argument turns. First you said the judge ruled that this FOIA request didn't fall under this exception now you're saying it's just "obvious" and we have to take your word for it.

Do you take anyone else's argument at face value, Mr. Show Me The Proof?

[Wrathbringer]

I like turdles.

[Parkbandit]

I'm sure he's briefed on the important ones, don't you? I would say declassifying this document is pretty important. I'm also sure Obama has some sway in the Pentagon, don't you?

In his defense... Obama rarely attends his security briefings.. so I'm not sure how many FIOA request briefings he would go to. Golf balls don't put themselves in the hole, you know.

He's a spiteful little man with paper thin skin though, so he probably attends the "How can we fuck with people on your shit list" briefings without missing a single one.

[Parkbandit]

Alright Latrin. I'll let you keep your lunch money this time because I have already sufficiently schooled you and you are now jumping through more hoops than lions at a Ringling Brothers performance and quite frankly I can't keep up with it all anymore.

It's adorable that you even bother to try.

[Tgo01]

It's adorable that you even bother to try.

One of these days I'll learn my lesson :(

[Wrathbringer]

Guys, I think I said I like turdles...

[Androidpk]

You should send him some more black markers. He probably just ran out or something.


Why they gotta be black??

[Latrinsorm]

You're right:

As the Latrin Argument turns. First you said the judge ruled that this FOIA request didn't fall under this exception now you're saying it's just "obvious" and we have to take your word for it.

Do you take anyone else's argument at face value, Mr. Show Me The Proof?I said the opposite of... pretty much all of that. :D I'll go through it again for the sake of clarity.

A. Mr. Smith's FOIA was about Israel.
B. As such, several FOIA exemptions couldn't possibly apply. Among them:
5 and 7E (those that led to the redaction of your 111 page document),
2 (those that allow the Office of Administration to avoid FOIA compliance)
C. The separate law 3s130c (FOIA is 5s552) also does not apply because Israel, when asked, did not object in writing to the disclosure.

What I said "first" and "now" are separate and equally correct.

.

Now, you have put a lot of effort in a (vain) attempt to catch me in some form of self-contradiction. Have you put any effort as of yet into wondering why a report released on February 12th only became news on March 25th? Or how the President somehow knew that Netanyahu would make a speech on March 3rd that offended him, and orchestrated the declassification of said report three weeks earlier?

[Tgo01]

I said the opposite of... pretty much all of that. :D I'll go through it again for the sake of clarity.

A. Mr. Smith's FOIA was about Israel.
B. As such, several FOIA exemptions couldn't possibly apply. Among them:
5 and 7E (those that led to the redaction of your 111 page document),
2 (those that allow the Office of Administration to avoid FOIA compliance)
C. The separate law 3s130c (FOIA is 5s552) also does not apply because Israel, when asked, did not object in writing to the disclosure.

Wait,didn't you say, and I quote:


This one is so special because a federal judge ruled that it had to be released

I could have sworn the link you provided stated quite clearly and in plain English that the judge asked the government if they wanted to deny the FOIA request on the basis of that particular exception and the government either said no or didn't answer by the deadline. That's not so much the judge said it had to be released as it is the government not even fighting it.

Didn't you also backup this argument by saying, and again I quote:


I said the government specifically couldn't redact the information regarding Israel's nuclear program.

Thus indicating that the judge had specifically denied any exception the government tried to claim when in fact the government never even tried to argue that?

Did you then not try to claim the government had no leg to stand on because:


Obviously this was to see if Israel wanted to exercise (b)(3)(a). Just as obviously, they didn't, and so the information came out.

And now you're trying to claim your arguments have been the same since the beginning when in the beginning you were telling us the judge ruled against the government and that they couldn't redact anything and now you're saying the government didn't even try to fight it because "obviously" they would have lost/Israel didn't want to fight it?

As I said a little while ago; my argument has been the exact same from the beginning: the government could have released the report and redacted everything like they've done plenty of times before in the past and if the person wasn't happy with the result they could have sued then the government could have fought in court and kept appealing it and as is most often the case when the government cites national security concerns they win.

Your argument has changed so many times I can't even tell which way is up anymore.

"The report had to be released because a judge said so."
"The government couldn't redact anything because a judge said so."
"Well yeah the government was allowed to redact that information because XYZ."
"The government ran out of appeals and the judge made her ruling."
"Well okay, true, the judge did give the government a chance to fight against releasing the documents but they would have lost anyways because it's just obvious."
"Trust me, I haven't changed my argument at all. I've been saying the same thing since the beginning."

[Androidpk]

Latrin has been saying the same thing all along.

[Tgo01]

Latrin has been saying the same thing all along.

You mean like where he said a federal judge ruled it had to be released and nothing could be redacted in regards to Israel's nuclear program then provided a link which stated the judge asked the government if they were planning on withholding the records based on an exception to the FOIA law and the government ended up not taking advantage of said exception and now Latrin is saying the reason is because the government wouldn't have won that argument and not because the judge ruled that it didn't pertain to this particular FOIA request?

I just want to make sure we're all on the same page here.

[Androidpk]

You mean like where he said a federal judge ruled it had to be released and nothing could be redacted in regards to Israel's nuclear program then provided a link which stated the judge asked the government if they were planning on withholding the records based on an exception to the FOIA law and the government ended up not taking advantage of said exception and now Latrin is saying the reason is because the government wouldn't have won that argument and not because the judge ruled that it didn't pertain to this particular FOIA request?

I just want to make sure we're all on the same page here.

Did you eat crayons and lead paint chips as a kid?

[Tgo01]

Did you eat crayons and lead paint chips as a kid?

http://aceimges.com/wp-content/uploads/funny-baby-crying-9.jpg

[Androidpk]

You know tgo has nothing when he has to resort to pictures.

[Tgo01]

You know tgo has nothing when he has to resort to pictures.

You expected a real reply in response to asking if I ate paint chips as a child?

The audacity is strong with this one!

[Latrinsorm]

I could have sworn the link you provided stated quite clearly and in plain English that the judge asked the government if they wanted to deny the FOIA request on the basis of that particular exception and the government either said no or didn't answer by the deadline. That's not so much the judge said it had to be released as it is the government not even fighting it.When I say "FOIA exemption" I'm referring to those exemptions stated in the FOIA. You're using it to mean any circumstance by which the government doesn't have to comply with FOIA. I'm not saying one of us is right or wrong, I'm just explaining to you how you're misunderstanding what I said.
Thus indicating that the judge had specifically denied any exception the government tried to claim when in fact the government never even tried to argue that?The US government did not have standing to invoke the other law in this case. They did pursue that avenue by contacting the government that could (Israel), and Israel chose not to.
And now you're trying to claim your arguments have been the same since the beginning when in the beginning you were telling us the judge ruled against the government and that they couldn't redact anything and now you're saying the government didn't even try to fight it because "obviously" they would have lost/Israel didn't want to fight it?I am successfully claiming my arguments have been the same since the beginning. I said in the very first post (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?95099-US-declassifies-documents-revealing-Israel-s-nuclear-weapon-program&p=1760440#post1760440) I made in this thread "Note the part where the DoD said they were talking the release over with Israel in December of 2014." :)
As I said a little while ago; my argument has been the exact same from the beginning: the government could have released the report and redacted everything like they've done plenty of times before in the past and if the person wasn't happy with the result they could have sued then the government could have fought in court and kept appealing it and as is most often the case when the government cites national security concerns they win.The government never cited national security concerns in this case. That's the first exemption listed in the FOIA, and it doesn't apply here.

Any chance you're going to review the timeline now?

[Androidpk]

You expected a real reply in response to asking if I ate paint chips as a child?

The audacity is strong with this one!

Oh I never expect a real answer from you, just more mindless and ignorant drivel.

[Tgo01]

The US government did not have standing to invoke the other law in this case. They did pursue that avenue by contacting the government that could (Israel), and Israel chose not to.

Where exactly are you getting this shit from that Israel had to request the information not be made public? Is this another case of you reading something in a link and hoping no one calls you out on it?

I'm assuming it's this part from the link which I provided earlier:


The foreign government or international organization requests, in writing, that the information be withheld.

Perhaps you missed the line directly above this line:


That any of the following conditions are met:

And if you read the whole section...


(3) That any of the following conditions are met:
(A) The foreign government or international organization requests, in writing, that the information be withheld.
(B) The information was provided or made available to the United States Government on the condition that it not be released to the public.
(C) The information is an item of information, or is in a category of information, that the national security official concerned has specified in regulations prescribed under subsection (g) as being information the release of which would have an adverse effect on the ability of the United States Government to obtain the same or similar information in the future.

You are (correctly) arguing A. What you are (incorrectly) doing is assuming that all of those conditions had to be met. The government could have argued B and C without Israel's consent and the government might have had a real case with C. Again, we'll never know now because the Obama administration just said "Fuck it."


Oh I never expect a real answer from you, just more mindless and ignorant drivel.

This coming from the man who just a couple of minutes ago asked if I ate paint chips as a child.

[waywardgs]

No one has yet to explain why it's even an issue. Everyone on the planet already knew israel has nuclear weapons. It's not like anyone let the cat out of the bag. If I see someone with purple hair, and I say Hey, that person has purple hair, would people all freak out and scream I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU TOLD EVERYONE THAT PERSON HAS PURPLE HAIR!!!

edit: I'll make the analogy more relevant. The person with purple hair was also wearing a hat.

[Tgo01]

No one has yet to explain why it's even an issue. Everyone on the planet already knew israel has nuclear weapons. It's not like anyone let the cat out of the bag. If I see someone with purple hair, and I say Hey, that person has purple hair, would people all freak out and scream I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU TOLD EVERYONE THAT PERSON HAS PURPLE HAIR!!!

edit: I'll make the analogy more relevant. The person with purple hair was also wearing a hat.

Like I said, for me it's not so much this document was unclassified, it's that it's so mind boggingly obvious Obama opted to release it when he did because he's a man child.

Even Latrin, whom you said earlier was bringing all the facts to this discussion, provided a link showing the government didn't even attempt to fight this.

[waywardgs]

Like I said, for me it's not so much this document was unclassified, it's that it's so mind boggingly obvious Obama opted to release it when he did because he's a man child.

Even Latrin, whom you said earlier was bringing all the facts to this discussion, provided a link showing the government didn't even attempt to fight this.

So your primary concern is that Obama isn't kissing enough Israeli ass?

[Tgo01]

So your primary concern is that Obama isn't kissing enough Israeli ass?

Finally you get it.

[Androidpk]

Like I said, for me it's not so much this document was unclassified, it's that it's so mind boggingly obvious Obama opted to release it when he did because he's a man child.

Even Latrin, whom you said earlier was bringing all the facts to this discussion, provided a link showing the government didn't even attempt to fight this.

Why would they fight it? If Obama truly wanted to do something spiteful there are plenty more things he could have done than just announce the incredibly obvious.

[Tgo01]

Why would they fight it? If Obama truly wanted to do something spiteful there are plenty more things he could have done than just announce the incredibly obvious.

Don't worry, I'm sure Obama is gonna do more.

[waywardgs]

Finally you get it.

The bags of cash we ship over there aren't enough?

[Tgo01]

The bags of cash we ship over there aren't enough?

No.

[Androidpk]

Don't worry, I'm sure Obama is gonna do more.

Let's hope so.

[waywardgs]

No.

So your ideal situation is what... just let Israel dictate American foreign policy in perpetuity?


Hell, why even have a government of our own, we can just let Bibi run this joint!

[Tgo01]

So your ideal situation is what... just let Israel dictate American foreign policy in perpetuity?


Hell, why even have a government of our own, we can just let Bibi run this joint!

You make more and more sense with each post.

But seriously I just don't see the point in going out of our way to piss off a long time and close ally.

[Androidpk]

So your ideal situation is what... just let Israel dictate American foreign policy in perpetuity?


Hell, why even have a government of our own, we can just let Bibi run this joint!

According to some statements Bibi has made before he already thinks he runs this country.

[waywardgs]

You make more and more sense with each post.

But seriously I just don't see the point in going out of our way to piss off a long time and close ally.

That's a two way street, buddy.

[Tgo01]

That's a two way street, buddy.

What has Israel done?

[Warriorbird]

What has Israel done?

Hilarious.

[waywardgs]

What has Israel done?

Uhhhhhhhhh


really?

[Androidpk]

You make more and more sense with each post.

But seriously I just don't see the point in going out of our way to piss off a long time and close ally.

So you think it's okay for countries to have secret nuclear weapons programs? All the while condemning other countries who do the same?

[Tgo01]

We have entered the passive aggressive zone!!

[Androidpk]

We have entered the passive aggressive zone!!

So that's a yes?

[Latrinsorm]

You are (correctly) arguing A. What you are (incorrectly) doing is assuming that all of those conditions had to be met. The government could have argued B and C without Israel's consent and the government might have had a real case with C. Again, we'll never know now because the Obama administration just said "Fuck it."We know that our government obtained the information on its own, so B and C don't apply. That leaves only A. I did not explicitly say this in the same way I did not explicitly explain how every exemption in the FOIA didn't apply.
Like I said, for me it's not so much this document was unclassified, it's that it's so mind boggingly obvious Obama opted to release it when he did because he's a man child.It's pretty incredible that you'll dig through every subsection of a law to try and catch me out, but you absolutely refuse to recognize that February 12th came before March 3rd. Obama could not possibly have released this report in response to Netanyahu's speech because the speech hadn't happened yet. Cause must precede effect.
But seriously I just don't see the point in going out of our way to piss off a long time and close ally.I'm not sure those words mean what you think they mean.

[Tgo01]

We know that our government obtained the information on its own, so B and C don't apply.

A) C doesn't specify that it only includes information other countries gave to the US government.
B) How do you know everything in the report the US got on its own? I just skimmed a little bit of the first 70 pages or so and a lot of the information in there sounds like they got it directly from Israel.



It's pretty incredible that you'll dig through every subsection of a law to try and catch me out, but you absolutely refuse to recognize that February 12th came before March 3rd. Obama could not possibly have released this report in response to Netanyahu's speech because the speech hadn't happened yet. Cause must precede effect.

Have you seriously forgotten the big brouhaha this speech caused months before the speech actually happened?

Boehner invited Netanyahu on Jan 8th and Netanyahu originally chose the date of Feb 9th to give the speech.

And you talk about the lengths I'm going through. You've been jumping through hoops for 10 pages now.

[Androidpk]

“We did inform the Israeli government of our planned release of the documents and they did not object,” US Army Col. Steven Warren, director of Pentagon press operations, confirmed to The Jerusalem Post.

Looks like Israel didn't care they were releasing this information.

[Latrinsorm]

A) C doesn't specify that it only includes information other countries gave to the US government.
B) How do you know everything in the report the US got on its own? I just skimmed a little bit of the first 70 pages or so and a lot of the information in there sounds like they got it directly from Israel.Of course we got information on Israel's nuclear program from Israel. Where else would we get it from, Kenya? The relevant question is whether we got it or it was provided to us, and it's the former.
Have you seriously forgotten the big brouhaha this speech caused months before the speech actually happened? Boehner invited Netanyahu on Jan 8th and Netanyahu originally chose the date of Feb 9th to give the speech. And you talk about the lengths I'm going through. You've been jumping through hoops for 10 pages now.It does take a lot of effort to explain all the ways you are wrong, yes. I'm not sure how that counts as a mark against me, but disirregardless: I do remember the big brouhaha between the President and Mr. Boehner. I don't remember any criticism from the President levied towards the Prime Minister.

The bottom line is this. Nobody cared about the report being declassified when it happened. Israel has never once protested it. The Prime Minister didn't once mention it in his speech before Congress. It's a story now because certain people are patronizing your bias against the President, and you eat it up with a spoon.

[Tgo01]

I don't remember any criticism from the President levied towards the Prime Minister.

HAHA. Alright, Latrin, it's been fun but you are shoving your head so far in the sand now I'm not sure there is any hope to bring you back to reality.

Obama didn't levy any criticism towards Netanyahu. HA! I gotta laugh again.

Like Obama didn't say before the speech that he refused to meet with Netanyahu when he was in town, or that Obama didn't purposefully send the lowest ranking official to that one Israeli-US meeting in the history of the meeting, or Obama didn't assure that Biden would be "busy" the day of the speech and wouldn't be able to attend.

[Androidpk]

HAHA. Alright, Latrin, it's been fun but you are shoving your head so far in the sand now I'm not sure there is any hope to bring you back to reality.



Such irony.

[Tgo01]

Such irony.

You mean how I have been 100% right in everything in this thread and you have chosen to take the side of someone who has been shown time and time again to be completely wrong and is just literally making shit up on the spot just because they happen to be taking the anti-Israel side in this argument?

That's not irony, pk, it's what we've all come to expect from you :D

[Androidpk]

You mean how I have been 100% right in everything in this thread and you have chosen to take the side of someone who has been shown time and time again to be completely wrong and is just literally making shit up on the spot just because they happen to be taking the anti-Israel side in this argument?

That's not irony, pk, it's what we've all come to expect from you :D

Nope.

[Gelston]

The fact of the matter is that all of you are raging plantosexuals who sit around pottery barn sucking off fig trees.

[Tgo01]

The fact of the matter is that all of you are raging plantosexuals who sit around pottery barn sucking off fig trees.

What you got against fig trees?

[Gelston]

What you got against fig trees?

Nothing. I think you people should stop sexually violating them.

[Latrinsorm]

HAHA. Alright, Latrin, it's been fun but you are shoving your head so far in the sand now I'm not sure there is any hope to bring you back to reality.

Obama didn't levy any criticism towards Netanyahu. HA! I gotta laugh again.

Like Obama didn't say before the speech that he refused to meet with Netanyahu when he was in town, or that Obama didn't purposefully send the lowest ranking official to that one Israeli-US meeting in the history of the meeting, or Obama didn't assure that Biden would be "busy" the day of the speech and wouldn't be able to attend.In what way are any of those criticisms?

[waywardgs]

In what way are any of those criticisms?

They're INSULTS, Latrin, from a vehemently anti-semetic muslim terrorist communist president who would have led the holocaust himself had be been born at the appropriate time.

[Androidpk]

They're INSULTS, Latrin, from a vehemently anti-semetic muslim terrorist communist president who would have led the holocaust himself had be been born at the appropriate time.

Can you prove Hitler wasn't a shill for Obama, sent back in time?

[waywardgs]

Can you prove Hitler wasn't a shill for Obama, sent back in time?

No, but tgo can prove he was.

[Tgo01]

In what way are any of those criticisms?

It shows there was tension between Obama and Netanyahu before Netanyahu's speech.

But you knew that and this is yet another exercise in mental gymnastics for you which is why we are done here, Latrin :)

You have been bested by me, Tgo01, it's time to pack it in and call it a day.

[Androidpk]

It shows there was tension between Obama and Netanyahu before Netanyahu's speech.

But you knew that and this is yet another exercise in mental gymnastics for you which is why we are done here, Latrin :)

You have been bested by me, Tgo01, it's time to pack it in and call it a day.


https://rorygregg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shifting_goals2.jpg?w=300&h=240

[Tgo01]

https://rorygregg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shifting_goals2.jpg?w=300&h=240

I agree pk, Latrin has been shifting goal posts since this thread started, which is why I said this discussion is over.

[Androidpk]

I agree pk, Latrin has been shifting goal posts since this thread started, which is why I said this discussion is over.

Latrin in has actually been on point the entire time, shockingly. You're the one jumping through hoops here.

[Tgo01]

Latrin in has actually been on point the entire time, shockingly. You're the one jumping through hoops here.

My point all along, from the very beginning even, page fucking one for Christ's sake, was the government could have fought this in court and at the very least delayed its release. I have even proved this would have been possible time and time again with links and examples of the government doing just this sort of thing before in the past.

NOTHING Latrin or anyone has has shown has proved otherwise. NOTHING.

Latrin's final argument now is "Well this couldn't have had anything to do with Netanyahu's speech because this happened before Netanyahu's speech."

When I pointed out the growing animosity between Obama and Netanyahu happened months before Netanyahu's speech his fallback was "How are any of those things criticisms?"

And you're saying he's been on point this entire time?

pk pk pk.

I had high hopes for you at one time, pk, but it's apparent now. You have fallen for the dark side.

[Archigeek]

I still haven't heard any compelling reason why this should bother anyone. Maybe some Israelis? But I don't hear them complaining, nor do I think we should base our decisions on their complaints if they did disagree with the release. We are after all a sovereign nation. The only one I hear squawking is TGO.

[Latrinsorm]

They're INSULTS, Latrin, from a vehemently anti-semetic muslim terrorist communist president who would have led the holocaust himself had be been born at the appropriate time.And he probably would have denied it even as he led it!!!
It shows there was tension between Obama and Netanyahu before Netanyahu's speech.There has been "tension" between Obama and Netanyahu since at least 2009. Obama didn't even Jedi mind trick the journalist into filing his FOIA request until 2012. Claiming that (the announcement of) this particular event was the motivating factor for declassification just makes no sense when Obama openly criticized Israel in the past and didn't do so this time.
Latrin in has actually been on point the entire time,:D
shockingly.:C

[Androidpk]

My point all along, from the very beginning even, page fucking one for Christ's sake, was the government could have fought this in court and at the very least delayed its release. I have even proved this would have been possible time and time again with links and examples of the government doing just this sort of thing before in the past.

NOTHING Latrin or anyone has has shown has proved otherwise. NOTHING.

Latrin's final argument now is "Well this couldn't have had anything to do with Netanyahu's speech because this happened before Netanyahu's speech."

When I pointed out the growing animosity between Obama and Netanyahu happened months before Netanyahu's speech his fallback was "How are any of those things criticisms?"

And you're saying he's been on point this entire time?

pk pk pk.

I had high hopes for you at one time, pk, but it's apparent now. You have fallen for the dark side.

The Israeli government could have stopped its release too and they chose not to. Your entire argument is groundless.

[Latrinsorm]

My point all along, from the very beginning even, page fucking one for Christ's sake, was the government could have fought this in court and at the very least delayed its release. I have even proved this would have been possible time and time again with links and examples of the government doing just this sort of thing before in the past.You proved that you don't understand the FOIA by referring (repeatedly) to exemptions that don't apply here.
Latrin's final argument now is "Well this couldn't have had anything to do with Netanyahu's speech because this happened before Netanyahu's speech." When I pointed out the growing animosity between Obama and Netanyahu happened months before Netanyahu's speech his fallback was "How are any of those things criticisms?"When I said Obama hadn't criticized Netanyahu, you said he did, so I asked you to back it up, and you didn't. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Tgo01]

I still haven't heard any compelling reason why this should bother anyone. Maybe some Israelis? But I don't hear them complaining, nor do I think we should base our decisions on their complaints if they did disagree with the release. We are after all a sovereign nation. The only one I hear squawking is TGO.

If his was no big deal then it makes you wonder why the U.S. government chose to ignore this FOIA request for 3 years then suddenly gave up the fight around the time tensions were running high about this whole speech thing.

[waywardgs]

If his was no big deal then it makes you wonder why the U.S. government chose to ignore this FOIA request for 3 years then suddenly gave up the fight around the time tensions were running high about this whole speech thing.

I really don't think you have a clear understanding of how the government works. There's Obama, see, and he's busy doing president stuff, and golfing, or whatever he does, and then there's another 2.7 MILLION federal employees doing other stuff at the same time. It's not just Obama, answering foia reqs, redacting docs, delivering mail, trying to ruin PB's life, etc... It's just too much for one man, even Obama, no matter how amazingly efficient you happen to think he is.

[Androidpk]

I really don't think you have a clear understanding of how the government works. There's Obama, see, and he's busy doing president stuff, and golfing, or whatever he does, and then there's another 2.7 MILLION federal employees doing other stuff at the same time. It's not just Obama, answering foia reqs, redacting docs, delivering mail, trying to ruin PB's life, etc... It's just too much for one man, even Obama, no matter how amazingly efficient you happen to think he is.


It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! Obama stole fizzy lifting drinks! He bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day, sir!

[Kembal]

TGO, if Israel didn't even object to the declassification, why are you objecting?

[waywardgs]

TGO, if Israel didn't even object to the declassification, why are you objecting?

Isn't it obvious? Israel is just FULL of anti-semites.

[Tgo01]

I really don't think you have a clear understanding of how the government works. There's Obama, see, and he's busy doing president stuff, and golfing, or whatever he does, and then there's another 2.7 MILLION federal employees doing other stuff at the same time. It's not just Obama, answering foia reqs, redacting docs, delivering mail, trying to ruin PB's life, etc... It's just too much for one man, even Obama, no matter how amazingly efficient you happen to think he is.

Dude, get off it. You are only deluding yourself if you think Obama can't stick his nose into things like this. Have I ever said Obama was sitting in the oval office responding to FOIA requests and going to court and arguing against it? No. Does this mean it's not at all possible that Obama didn't set the tone as to how this FOIA should be handled? Of course not. Stop it.

Just like Obama doesn't personally go to court to argue on behalf of laws but he sets the tone for how these laws should be defended, or in the case of DOMA, not defended against.


TGO, if Israel didn't even object to the declassification, why are you objecting?


Isn't it obvious? Israel is just FULL of anti-semites.

Geezus you guys. Watching Latrin talk in circles was bad enough, this is reaching ludicrous levels of absurd now.

Wasn't I catching shit just a few pages ago for supposedly thinking Israel should dictate how our government is run and now you guys are like "But if Israel didn't object why are you objecting?"

Either you guys don't give a flying fuck what Israel thinks or you do, you don't get to use Israel's involvement or lack thereof only when it suits your argument.

Also what information do we have that Israel didn't object? What pk posted earlier about some colonel saying Israel didn't object?

Just stop guys, stop. You have lost this argument so bad it's actually getting painful now. Just because you all keep jerking each other off with your wrongness doesn't suddenly make you right.

[Androidpk]

Dude, get off it. You are only deluding yourself if you think Obama can't stick his nose into things like this. Have I ever said Obama was sitting in the oval office responding to FOIA requests and going to court and arguing against it? No. Does this mean it's not at all possible that Obama didn't set the tone as to how this FOIA should be handled? Of course not. Stop it.

Just like Obama doesn't personally go to court to argue on behalf of laws but he sets the tone for how these laws should be defended, or in the case of DOMA, not defended against.





Geezus you guys. Watching Latrin talk in circles was bad enough, this is reaching ludicrous levels of absurd now.

Wasn't I catching shit just a few pages ago for supposedly thinking Israel should dictate how our government is run and now you guys are like "But if Israel didn't object why are you objecting?"

Either you guys don't give a flying fuck what Israel thinks or you do, you don't get to use Israel's involvement or lack thereof only when it suits your argument.

Also what information do we have that Israel didn't object? What pk posted earlier about some colonel saying Israel didn't object?

Just stop guys, stop. You have lost this argument so bad it's actually getting painful now. Just because you all keep jerking each other off with your wrongness doesn't suddenly make you right.

Wow, dude.. just wow.

[Tgo01]

Wow, dude.. just wow.

I know, pretty powerful stuff. Keep reaching for the stars and someday you can make sense too.

[Androidpk]

I know, pretty powerful stuff. Keep reaching for the stars and someday you can make sense too.

Nah, dude, you're just straight up delusional.

[Tgo01]

Nah, dude, you're just straight up delusional.

Gotta love someone who just insults others and doesn't bring a single piece of relevant information to a discussion then calls someone else delusional.

It's why we keep you around, pk. We need the comedic relief.

[Androidpk]

Gotta love someone who just insults others and doesn't bring a single piece of relevant information to a discussion then calls someone else delusional.

It's why we keep you around, pk. We need the comedic relief.

And who is we? You and your mom?

It's also funny how you think you've contributed anything to this thread. People have asked you straight and simple questions and all you've done is wildly dance around the subject and cry that everyone is jumping through hoops and not making any sense to you.

[Tgo01]

It's also funny how you think you've contributed anything to this thread. People have asked you straight and simple questions and all you've done is wildly dance around the subject and cry that everyone is jumping through hoops and not making any sense to you.

I have actually answered every relevant question asked of me. What have you done other than ask if I ate paint chips as a child?

But hey, I'm willing to continue arguing this, let's go back to the very beginning and I'll try to make this simple for anyone who actually wishes to have an adult discussion about this:

Fact: Someone issued a FOIA request for this document.
Fact: The US government ignored the request for close to 3 years.
Fact: Said person sued to get the courts to make government respond to the request.
Fact: Judge said government had to respond to the request.
Fact: Judge asked if the government wished to cite an exception to the FOIA request.
Fact: The government has successfully argued exceptions to FOIA requests before in the past and have gotten away with instances like releasing over 100 pages of blank paper and found to be perfectly legal.
Fact: Government chose not to fight this in court and decided to just release the information.
Fact: This releasing of information was right in the middle of liberal crying about Netanyahu's upcoming speech.

If anyone wishes to argue why they think the government decided to just "coincidentally" stop fighting this right in the middle of Obama and other Democrats crying about what a racist Netanyahu was then I would be happy to hear it.

Here's a few hints so we can avoid another 10 pages of childish insults directed towards me:

"Israel didn't object" is not a valid response.
"Israel doesn't dictate US policy" is not a valid response.
"What's the big deal anyways?" is not a valid response.
"The government didn't have a case" is not a valid response; as your hero Latrin stated earlier "that's why we have judges."
"The speech happened after this release" is not a valid response because as I have already demonstrated Obama was already showing his disapproval of Netanyahu's speech weeks before Netanyahu gave his speech. Also not valid because Latrin himself said there was already tension between Obama and Netanyahu going back to at least 2009.

[Androidpk]

Ahh, so something is only valid if it aligns with your point of view. Go away already.

[Tgo01]

Ahh, so something is only valid if it aligns with your point of view. Go away already.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention; being an absolute child is not a valid response. It was easy to forget to include this one because it mostly only pertains to you pk and you're so forgettable :)

But to answer your childish question, they aren't a valid response because they have absolutely zero to do with what I'm saying.

It's like me asking what the best kind of cookie is and you responding with banana then going batshit insane like you usually do when I give you a funny look.

[Androidpk]

You're the one accusing Obama of going out of his way to upset an ally of the US.. yet Israel wasn't upset at all. The only one acting like a butthurt child is yourself.

[Tgo01]

You're the one accusing Obama of going out of his way to upset an ally of the US.. yet Israel wasn't upset at all. The only one acting like a butthurt child is yourself.


Oh yeah I forgot to mention; being an absolute child is not a valid response.


"Israel didn't object" is not a valid response.

Since you apparently need a reminder.

[Androidpk]

I refuse to acknowledge that Israel isn't upset about this and agreed to have the document released.

.

[Tgo01]

.


"Israel didn't object" is not a valid response.

Let me know when you're ready to act like an adult, pk.

[Androidpk]

Let me know when you're ready to act like an adult, pk.

Let me know when you decide to stop being an annoying troll.

[Tgo01]

Let me know when you decide to stop being an annoying troll.


Oh yeah I forgot to mention; being an absolute child is not a valid response.

.

[Warriorbird]

I have actually answered every relevant question asked of me. What have you done other than ask if I ate paint chips as a child?

But hey, I'm willing to continue arguing this, let's go back to the very beginning and I'll try to make this simple for anyone who actually wishes to have an adult discussion about this:

Fact: Someone issued a FOIA request for this document.
Fact: The US government ignored the request for close to 3 years.
Fact: Said person sued to get the courts to make government respond to the request.
Fact: Judge said government had to respond to the request.
Fact: Judge asked if the government wished to cite an exception to the FOIA request.
Fact: The government has successfully argued exceptions to FOIA requests before in the past and have gotten away with instances like releasing over 100 pages of blank paper and found to be perfectly legal.
Fact: Government chose not to fight this in court and decided to just release the information.
Fact: This releasing of information was right in the middle of liberal crying about Netanyahu's upcoming speech.

If anyone wishes to argue why they think the government decided to just "coincidentally" stop fighting this right in the middle of Obama and other Democrats crying about what a racist Netanyahu was then I would be happy to hear it.

Here's a few hints so we can avoid another 10 pages of childish insults directed towards me:

"Israel didn't object" is not a valid response.
"Israel doesn't dictate US policy" is not a valid response.
"What's the big deal anyways?" is not a valid response.
"The government didn't have a case" is not a valid response; as your hero Latrin stated earlier "that's why we have judges."
"The speech happened after this release" is not a valid response because as I have already demonstrated Obama was already showing his disapproval of Netanyahu's speech weeks before Netanyahu gave his speech. Also not valid because Latrin himself said there was already tension between Obama and Netanyahu going back to at least 2009.

I'm glad to know Israel dictates US policy. Thank you for helping us all out.

[Tgo01]

I'm glad to know Israel dictates US policy. Thank you for helping us all out.

See, this is why we've had 10 pages of utter nonsense and bullshit. You guys aren't even attempting to respond to the question I have posed. Heck, you aren't even mentioning the question I have posed. Just one strawman and bullshit "Here's a link that says A but it really says B!" post after another.

[waywardgs]

Ok. Can you explain how this is upsetting to Israel?

In fact, as an aside, someone please tell me how the veneer of secrecy surrounding their nuclear program was some kind of massive benefit to begin with. Why not just say Hell yeah we have nukes, watch it fuckers!

[Tgo01]

Ok. Can you explain how this is upsetting to Israel?


"Israel didn't object" is not a valid response.
"What's the big deal anyways?" is not a valid response.


In fact, as an aside, someone please tell me how the veneer of secrecy surrounding their nuclear program was some kind of massive benefit to begin with. Why not just say Hell yeah we have nukes, watch it fuckers!

I have no idea, the US doesn't dictate Israeli policy. OH SNAP!

[Warriorbird]

See, this is why we've had 10 pages of utter nonsense and bullshit. You guys aren't even attempting to respond to the question I have posed. Heck, you aren't even mentioning the question I have posed. Just one strawman and bullshit "Here's a link that says A but it really says B!" post after another.

The thing is your line isn't even convincing trolling because you're just hilariously wrong. It reads like one of those "Must protect the Holy Land!" evangelical types when you aren't.

[Androidpk]

You guys aren't even attempting to respond to the question I have posed.

Sorry, your question isn't valid.

[Tgo01]

The thing is your line isn't even convincing trolling because you're just hilariously wrong. It reads like one of those "Must protect the Holy Land!" evangelical types when you aren't.


Oh yeah I forgot to mention; being an absolute child is not a valid response.

I can do this all day, people.


Sorry, your question isn't valid.

That's great if you think that, you are most certainly entitled to believe so. Just don't see the point in attacking me or challenging my position if you think my position is invalid to begin with. Unless, of course, you're just a child.

[Warriorbird]

I can do this all day, people.

You're correct. Being a child is not a valid response. If you're gonna troll at least make it entertaining.

[Tgo01]

You're correct. Being a child is not a valid response. If you're gonna troll at least make it entertaining.


Oh yeah I forgot to mention; being an absolute child is not a valid response.

So no one is brave enough to actually address my question/point huh?

Figures.

Democrats! The lot of ya!

[waywardgs]

I have no idea, the US doesn't dictate Israeli policy. OH SNAP!

"Israel didn't object" is not a valid response.
"What's the big deal anyways?" is not a valid response.

is not a response to my question.

[Warriorbird]

So no one is brave enough to actually address my question/point huh?

Figures.

Democrats! The lot of ya!

You don't have one. You're just coming across like a complete nutcase ad infinitum and then you dip out of rationality completely if anybody else says anything.

I blame marijuana.

[Tgo01]

"Israel didn't object" is not a valid response.
"What's the big deal anyways?" is not a valid response.

is not a response to my question.

Because I have never said it was upsetting to Israel. Sorry if you were just asking an open ended question and you weren't directing it towards me but it sure sounded like you were directing it towards me.

[waywardgs]

So no one is brave enough to actually address my question/point huh?

Figures.

Democrats! The lot of ya!

Yeah, at this point I'm not sure what your point is.

me: Why is this upsetting to israel?
you: I have no idea, the US doesn't dictate Israeli policy. OH SNAP!

...

You just have a gut feeling that they're tearing their hair out over it and it's some huge slight... ok.

[waywardgs]

Because I have never said it was upsetting to Israel. Sorry if you were just asking an open ended question and you weren't directing it towards me but it sure sounded like you were directing it towards me.

Then why are YOU upset about it?

[Tgo01]

Then why are YOU upset about it?

Who do you care if I'm upset about this or not? How does that affect what I am saying in the slightest bit?

More and more strawman bullshit arguments.

[Androidpk]

Because I have never said it was upsetting to Israel.




But seriously I just don't see the point in going out of our way to piss off a long time and close ally.

Oookay.

[waywardgs]

Who do you care if I'm upset about this or not? How does that affect what I am saying in the slightest bit?

More and more strawman bullshit arguments.

wait what? Your whole argument has been that this was some big FUCK YOU to israel in response to bibi's congressional speech... And now you're saying it's... not?

[Tgo01]

Oookay.

I didn't say Obama was very good at his job. Have I ever given Obama credit for anything?


wait what? Your whole argument has been that this was some big FUCK YOU to israel in response to bibi's congressional speech... And now you're saying it's... not?

My goodness, can anyone in this thread read? Anyone at all? Obama attempting to piss of Israel and Israel not showing any signs of being pissed off aren't mutually exclusive.

See this is why I didn't want to deviate away from my original argument because you guys aren't interested in arguing against my point at all, you're just looking for deflection and bullshit strawmen arguments because you ain't got shit. None of y'all.

[Gelston]

I didn't say Obama was very good at his job. Have I ever given Obama credit for anything?



My goodness, can anyone in this thread read? Anyone at all? Obama attempting to piss of Israel and Israel not showing any signs of being pissed off are not the same thing.

See this is why I didn't want to deviate away from my original argument because you guys aren't interested in arguing against my point at all, you're just looking for deflection and bullshit strawmen arguments because you ain't got shit. None of y'all.

Everyone should flush their shit down the toilet.

[Androidpk]

I think tgo is having some kind of mental meltdown.

[waywardgs]

I didn't say Obama was very good at his job. Have I ever given Obama credit for anything?



My goodness, can anyone in this thread read? Anyone at all? Obama attempting to piss of Israel and Israel not showing any signs of being pissed off are not the same thing.

See this is why I didn't want to deviate away from my original argument because you guys aren't interested in arguing against my point at all, you're just looking for deflection and bullshit strawmen arguments because you ain't got shit. None of y'all.

Holy crap, dude. I'm addressing your very words. If that's "strawman" to you... I just.. I can't. I can't even.

[waywardgs]

I'm going to starbucks. That's where people who "can't even" go.

[Tgo01]

Holy crap, dude. I'm addressing your very words. If that's "strawman" to you... I just.. I can't. I can't even.

No, you're twisting my words and yes, that's the very definition of strawman.

[Androidpk]

Everyone should flush their shit down the toilet.

What is that in your avatar. Turret?

[waywardgs]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ruJBKFrRCk

[Kembal]

I didn't say Obama was very good at his job. Have I ever given Obama credit for anything?



My goodness, can anyone in this thread read? Anyone at all? Obama attempting to piss of Israel and Israel not showing any signs of being pissed off aren't mutually exclusive.

See this is why I didn't want to deviate away from my original argument because you guys aren't interested in arguing against my point at all, you're just looking for deflection and bullshit strawmen arguments because you ain't got shit. None of y'all.

I've posted exactly once in this thread, and that was to ask you a question.

Your line of reasoning, as I understand it, is that the government chose not to fight the FOIA request because Obama felt like declassifying Israel's nuclear program out of spite.

If this is the case, then why didn't this become an issue in the Israeli election? The left of center parties ((and some of the far right ones, for that matter) could have gone after Netanyahu, showing how he was endangering Israel's security by pissing off the President of the US. Considering that his platform was completely based on how only he could protect Israel's security, it would've been a massive wound for his campaign. Israelis consider the US-Israel relationship vitally important to their country's security, and any major fissures in that get them concerned. Certainly Obama was rooting for any result that would've knocked Netanyahu out of power, and people who worked on his campaign were advising the left of center Zionist Union slate. All the dots connect for it to be used against Netanyahu.

But it wasn't an issue at all. Doesn't that tell you something?

[Tgo01]

But it wasn't an issue at all. Doesn't that tell you something?

It tells me you fall in line lockstep with everything Obama shoves down your throat.

Seriously, I have no idea how to respond to your post in a polite and civil manner because it's stupid. Your proof for why this wasn't released out of spite on Obama's part is because...it wasn't an issue in the Israeli prime minister election? Really? Something that was 100% out of Netanyahu's control? Oh, right, if you listen to the other ditto heads in this thread Israel could have stopped this because these people fail to even be able to read and comprehend simple English and just make up shit they read in a link.

[waywardgs]

Uh-oh, Tgo's getting mad now...

[Tgo01]

Uh-oh, Tgo's getting mad now...

I'm sure your friends will be along shortly to circle jerk to this post of yours.

[Wrathbringer]

I'm sure your friends will be along shortly to circle jerk to this post of yours.

Hi guys. What? Am I early?

[Kembal]

It tells me you fall in line lockstep with everything Obama shoves down your throat.

Seriously, I have no idea how to respond to your post in a polite and civil manner because it's stupid. Your proof for why this wasn't released out of spite on Obama's part is because...it wasn't an issue in the Israeli prime minister election? Really? Something that was 100% out of Netanyahu's control? Oh, right, if you listen to the other ditto heads in this thread Israel could have stopped this because these people fail to even be able to read and comprehend simple English and just make up shit they read in a link.

<facepalm>

Tgo, if Obama was going to declassify the program out of spite, why wouldn't he take it one step further and use it actually against Netanyahu in the election? It's not like Netanyahu wasn't trying to politically damage Obama with that speech and torpedo a major US foreign policy initiative...Obama could have easily done this in response, but then why wouldn't he use this to actually damage Netanyahu in the election in an attempt to knock him out of power?

This has nothing to do with anything in Netanyahu's control. It has everything to do with your supposed explanation as to why this occurred.

[Wrathbringer]

<facepalm>

Tgo, if Obama was going to declassify the program out of spite, why wouldn't he take it one step further and use it actually against Netanyahu in the election? It's not like Netanyahu wasn't trying to politically damage Obama with that speech and torpedo a major US foreign policy initiative...Obama could have easily done this in response, but then why wouldn't he use this to actually damage Netanyahu in the election in an attempt to knock him out of power?

This has nothing to do with anything in Netanyahu's control. It has everything to do with your supposed explanation as to why this occurred.

You're wrong, just so you know. I don't feel like explaining it.

[Tgo01]

<facepalm>

Tgo, if Obama was going to declassify the program out of spite, why wouldn't he take it one step further and use it actually against Netanyahu in the election? It's not like Netanyahu wasn't trying to politically damage Obama with that speech and torpedo a major US foreign policy initiative...Obama could have easily done this in response, but then why wouldn't he use this to actually damage Netanyahu in the election in an attempt to knock him out of power?

This has nothing to do with anything in Netanyahu's control. It has everything to do with your supposed explanation as to why this occurred.

I'm really not sure I understand what you're getting at. What do you think Obama could have done to torpedo Netanyahu's reelection in regards to this?

Also like I said before; I have never once accused Obama of being good at what he does.

[Kembal]

I'm really not sure I understand what you're getting at. What do you think Obama could have done to torpedo Netanyahu's reelection in regards to this?

Also like I said before; I have never once accused Obama of being good at what he does.

It is a fact of Israeli politics that Israeli voters hold the relationship between the US-Israel as critically important to Israel's security. They have been known to punish politicians in the past who have jeopardized the relationship in some form, and this goes across the Israeli political spectrum. If Netanyahu has pissed off the President of the United States so badly that he's willing to declassify Israel's secret nuclear program, I think that would qualify as "jeopardizing of the relationship". Add in the fact that Netanyahu was basically running on a security platform, and it seems like a perfect opportunity to attack his supposed strength.

I'm not one to say that Obama has been competent in governance either (I've posted that a few times). But considering all the actions he was taking to isolate Netanyahu before the election (refusing to meet him before the speech and instructing other Cabinet members to do the same), it doesn't seem like a stretch to say that if Obama was acting out of spite in regards to the declassification (an inherently political act), he would also take it a step forward and make sure the action was used in a political manner against Netanyahu to try and block his re-election.

The fact that it never came up tells me the declassification wasn't a political action.

[Tgo01]

It is a fact of Israeli politics that Israeli voters hold the relationship between the US-Israel as critically important to Israel's security. They have been known to punish politicians in the past who have jeopardized the relationship in some form, and this goes across the Israeli political spectrum. If Netanyahu has pissed off the President of the United States so badly that he's willing to declassify Israel's secret nuclear program, I think that would qualify as "jeopardizing of the relationship". Add in the fact that Netanyahu was basically running on a security platform, and it seems like a perfect opportunity to attack his supposed strength.

And again...this goes back to my first post that you <facepalm>'ed, why would this come up in Israeli politics? You really think any political leader in Israel is going to say Obama is acting like a spiteful child if what you say is true? It's like you're arguing against yourself in a single paragraph. That's really an awesome feat, I must admit.


if Obama was acting out of spite in regards to the declassification (an inherently political act), he would also take it a step forward and make sure the action was used in a political manner against Netanyahu to try and block his re-election.

Okay this is twice you have said this without further elaborating. How was Obama going to make sure this was used against Netanyahu? Like literally contact the opposition in Israel and make sure they mentioned it? Contacted newspapers in Israel and made sure they ran an ad about it? Seriously now, what would Obama have done without making it obvious that he was acting like a petty child? I will give Obama credit for one thing; he's not quite stupid enough to admit when he's acting like a man child.


The fact that it never came up tells me the declassification wasn't a political action.

My turn to <facepalm>.

[Kembal]

And again...this goes back to my first post that you <facepalm>'ed, why would this come up in Israeli politics? You really think any political leader in Israel is going to say Obama is acting like a spiteful child if what you say is true? It's like you're arguing against yourself in a single paragraph. That's really an awesome feat, I must admit.



Okay this is twice you have said this without further elaborating. How was Obama going to make sure this was used against Netanyahu? Like literally contact the opposition in Israel and make sure they mentioned it? Contacted newspapers in Israel and made sure they ran an ad about it? Seriously now, what would Obama have done without making it obvious that he was acting like a petty child? I will give Obama credit for one thing; he's not quite stupid enough to admit when he's acting like a man child.



My turn to <facepalm>.

Alright, man, we can go around and around (I'd point out again that Obama's campaign staff was advising the Zionist Union slate, for example), but you seem dead-set on this, so keep on marinating in it while you keep script hunting on Plane 4 of the Rift.

[Tgo01]

Alright, man, we can go around and around (I'd point out again that Obama's campaign staff was advising the Zionist Union slate, for example), but you seem dead-set on this, so keep on marinating in it while you keep script hunting on Plane 4 of the Rift.

Go around and around on what? You have literally said nothing. I have asked you for clarification twice now and you have said shit.

I made my initial claim way back on page one and provided past examples, cited laws, and explained my position in detail when asked questions. You have said "Obama could have done more therefore I win" and are now getting pissy because I have asked you for clarification on such a claim?

Also cute jab about script hunting on Plane 4 of the Rift, my characters have been sitting at a table for well over an hour in game. Talk about grown ass men acting like children.

I also think it's beyond adorable that you admit Obama was advising the opposition in Israel yet think it's out of the realm of possibility that he declassified this report out of spite. Are you sure you're arguing the correct side in this?

[waywardgs]

I think Kembal's point is that if this were intended to destabilize netanyahu's administration out of spite, it would have been released before the election. Your explanation is that obama is just bad at being spiteful, or something. Everyone else's is that this wasn't an attempt to undermine netanyahu by a spiteful obama.

[Tgo01]

I think Kembal's point is that if this were intended to destabilize netanyahu's administration out of spite, it would have been released before the election.

It was released before the election :/

Also I never said this was an attempt to undermine Netanyahu, more strawmen. I just said Obama did this out of spite. I don't think Obama gives two fucks who he's fucking over when he fucks people over, he just fucks people over who piss him off.

[waywardgs]

It was released before the election :/

Also I never said this was an attempt to undermine Netanyahu, more strawmen. I just said Obama did this out of spite. I don't think Obama gives two fucks who he's fucking over when he fucks people over, he just fucks people over who piss him off.

Ah, fair enough.

I still think it's a stretch to say this is an example of a spiteful obama, but whatever. Carry on.

[Tgo01]

I still think it's a stretch to say this is an example of a spiteful obama, but whatever. Carry on.

Why not? You even have Kembal here admitting that Obama was advising the opposition in Israel.

I mean holy fuck, that's the first I'm hearing of this. That is like 1,000,000 times worse than what he did in regards to declassifying this report. Why is it so hard to believe Obama would be this petty when he's apparently shown himself to be capable of being even pettier?

[waywardgs]

Why not? You even have Kembal here admitting that Obama was advising the opposition in Israel.

I mean holy fuck, that's the first I'm hearing of this. That is like 1,000,000 times worse than what he did in regards to declassifying this report. Why is it so hard to believe Obama would be this petty when he's apparently shown himself to be capable of being even pettier?

Netanyahu is doing the same thing for the republicans, but he's not spiteful, right?

[Kembal]

Go around and around on what? You have literally said nothing. I have asked you for clarification twice now and you have said shit.

I made my initial claim way back on page one and provided past examples, cited laws, and explained my position in detail when asked questions. You have said "Obama could have done more therefore I win" and are now getting pissy because I have asked you for clarification on such a claim?

Also cute jab about script hunting on Plane 4 of the Rift, my characters have been sitting at a table for well over an hour in game. Talk about grown ass men acting like children.

I also think it's beyond adorable that you admit Obama was advising the opposition in Israel yet think it's out of the realm of possibility that he declassified this report out of spite. Are you sure you're arguing the correct side in this?

Um, if it's not obvious, I'm not in game right now and haven't been in today at all. You know who my Rift-hunting character is, and I see your characters on Plane 4 when I'm hunting there. That's all that jab was.

Look, there's no question that Obama dislikes Netanyahu. Netanyahu's been lying to him for 5 years about pursuing a two state solution, and is actively trying to torpedo the negotiations with Iran. I just don't buy that Obama spitefully declassified Israel's nuclear program and then chose to not do anything with the action to actually fuck over Netanyahu.

[Tgo01]

Netanyahu is doing the same thing for the republicans, but he's not spiteful, right?

You just keep on helping me prove my point that Obama did this out of spite.


Um, if it's not obvious, I'm not in game right now and haven't been in today at all.

Why would this be obvious to me? I don't even know who you are in game, much less would I be concerned about if you're posting on a message board while also in game.


You know who my Rift-hunting character is, and I see your characters on Plane 4 when I'm hunting there. That's all that jab was.

I honestly have no idea who your character is. I know very few people's characters in game based on their PC handle.

[Kembal]

Why not? You even have Kembal here admitting that Obama was advising the opposition in Israel.

I mean holy fuck, that's the first I'm hearing of this. That is like 1,000,000 times worse than what he did in regards to declassifying this report. Why is it so hard to believe Obama would be this petty when he's apparently shown himself to be capable of being even pettier?

And Israel's ambassador to the US is doing the exact same thing in advising the Republicans. Hell, he's a Republican political operative!

Couple of articles for you:

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/03/israel-netanyahu-coalition-palestine-negotiations-herzog.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/netanyahu-feeling-squeezed-in-rightwing-coalition

The Obama administration has had it with Netanyahu. That said, declassifying Israel's nuclear arsenal as a spiteful action to undermine Netanyahu? Unlikely...that's one of those things you can't take back. The Obama administration, if nothing else, would not take such an action for short-term political gain.

What I've been posing to you is the counterfactual in which they would do so. And from there, it logically follows that they'd try to make it an issue in the election to knock off Netanyahu. Otherwise, they gain nothing.

[Kembal]

You just keep on helping me prove my point that Obama did this out of spite.



Why would this be obvious to me? I don't even know who you are in game, much less would I be concerned about if you're posting on a message board while also in game.



I honestly have no idea who your character is. I know very few people's characters in game based on their PC handle.

PC handle = character.

[Androidpk]

Even Wrathbringer's trolling is better than tgo's.

[Latrinsorm]

Fact: Judge asked if the government wished to cite an exception to the FOIA request.
Fact: The government has successfully argued exceptions to FOIA requests before in the past and have gotten away with instances like releasing over 100 pages of blank paper and found to be perfectly legal.
Fact: Government chose not to fight this in court and decided to just release the information.You keep getting this confused, even after I've explained it to you like a million times (h/t Thondalar). The 111 page case is legal because two specific exemptions in the FOIA allowed for it. Neither those specific exemptions nor any others in FOIA applied in this case. There is another law that could have allowed for redaction, but it also did not apply because Israel did not object. The executive branch did not "choose" anything except to abide by the law. When it was legal to redact, they did. When it wasn't, they didn't. You gloss over this distinction because it fundamentally undermines your argument, but doing so only makes your argument look worse.
And again...this goes back to my first post that you <facepalm>'ed, why would this come up in Israeli politics? You really think any political leader in Israel is going to say Obama is acting like a spiteful child if what you say is true? It's like you're arguing against yourself in a single paragraph. That's really an awesome feat, I must admit.They would say Netanyahu was acting like a spiteful child, prompting a disciplinary response from Obama. I mean, duh. Are you sure you follow politics?

[Androidpk]

Tgo doesn't even vote, let alone actually understand politics and government.

[Wrathbringer]

Even Wrathbringer's trolling is better than tgo's.

I don't know if mine is better, I just think it doesn't last nearly as long and so it's less painful overall. Tgo's trolling stamina is second only to latrinsorm.

[Archigeek]

I don't know if mine is better, I just think it doesn't last nearly as long and so it's less painful overall. Tgo's trolling stamina is second only to latrinsorm.

I'm convinced that he thinks that whomever posts the most in the thread wins.

[Tgo01]

I'm convinced that he thinks that whomever posts the most in the thread wins.

Not my fault so much wrong needs to be corrected.

[Back]

Wow. Three days worth of Tg calling Obama petty (Tgo did not vote in the last election) for something he may or may have not been involved in. Who are the jerks here? Netanyahu? Boehner? Republicans?

[Warriorbird]

Wow. Three days worth of Tg calling Obama petty (Tgo did not vote in the last election) for something he may or may have not been involved in. Who are the jerks here? Netanyahu? Boehner? Republicans?

I'm pretty sure Tgo01 cares more than any of the above.

[Back]

I'm pretty sure Tgo01 cares more than any of the above.

Without any of the above posting here I am sure you are correct.

[Wrathbringer]

Without any of the above posting here I am sure you are correct.

Well, the cat's out of the bag, I guess. Hello, all. I'm John Boehner and I care more than tgo. I'd appreciate your vote at any given time that I may choose to run for anything. 'Murica. Wrong again, Back.

[Back]

Well, the cat's out of the bag, I guess. Hello, all. I'm John Boehner and I care more than tgo. I'd appreciate your vote at any given time that I may choose to run for anything. 'Murica.


Thanks for the laughs.

[Tgo01]

I'm pretty sure Tgo01 cares more than any of the above.

Makes one wonder why you care so much that I care. That's how this game works, right? You're involved in this thread means you care more about this than anyone else in the world?

[Tgo01]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/white-house-tweet-netanyahu-bomb_n_7028692.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=WorldPost


The White House Twitter account took a less-than-subtle dig at Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Wednesday afternoon, amid a continuing public spat between the U.S. and Israeli governments over nuclear negotiations with Iran.

The White House tweet, presented in the guise of an explainer on the framework agreement that Iran and world powers reached last week, contained a choice graphic of a cartoon bomb.

As many were quick to note, the tweet's bomb is almost the exact visual that Netanyahu used while delivering a speech on Iran's nuclear program to the United Nations General Assembly in September 2012.

Netanyahu drew a red line on his prop while urging the international community to stop Iran before it reached a final stage of nuclear enrichment.

The American bomb tweet comes amid a heated debate between proponents of the Iran deal and detractors. Following the announcement on Thursday that a framework agreement had been reached, the nations negotiating with Iran andmany nuclear experts vocally supported the deal, while some hardliners in Iran and in the U.S. voiced opposition.

Israel, which views the framework agreement as too soft on Iran, has been lobbying hard against it, with appearances by Netanyahu on American talk shows and analysts pointing out what they see as the deal's shortcomings. The Obama administration, on the other hand, has been touting the nuclear agreement as a success and is urging lawmakers to support a final deal that would block Iran from building nuclear weapons by diplomatic means.

What was that again about Obama not acting like a man child? This is something I would expect from someone serving on a high school student body council, not the freaking president of the US.

Thanks for voting for this man twice. The white guilt is real!

[Latrinsorm]

What was that again about Obama not acting like a man child? This is something I would expect from someone serving on a high school student body council, not the freaking president of the US.You're comparing a tweet to a court order. You get that, right?

[Tgo01]

You're comparing a tweet to a court order. You get that, right?

I didn't realize I was comparing anything at all.

Latrinsorm, King of the Strawmen!

[Warriorbird]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/white-house-tweet-netanyahu-bomb_n_7028692.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=WorldPost



What was that again about Obama not acting like a man child? This is something I would expect from someone serving on a high school student body council, not the freaking president of the US.

Thanks for voting for this man twice. The white guilt is real!

Please explain to me how this shows Netanyahu as mature.

[Tgo01]

Please explain to me how this shows Netanyahu as mature.

I didn't say Netanyahu was mature, I said Obama was a man child. You even quoted the post of mine where I didn't mention Netanyahu once and I specifically referred to Obama as a man child. I...don't know how I could have made my post anymore clear :/

[Androidpk]

Trolling Netanyahu = acting like a man-child?

[Tgo01]

Trolling Netanyahu = acting like a man-child?

Oh I get it! It's okay because he's Jewish! HAHAHAHAHA. No.

[Archigeek]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/08/white-house-tweet-netanyahu-bomb_n_7028692.html?utm_hp_ref=world&ir=WorldPost



What was that again about Obama not acting like a man child? This is something I would expect from someone serving on a high school student body council, not the freaking president of the US.

Thanks for voting for this man twice. The white guilt is real!

Funny stuff. Love the bomb pic dig. I don't have much respect for the Israeli government anymore, they cost us a fortune and don't seem to really want to make the hard choices that will be required to solve the situation with Palestine.

[Androidpk]

Trolling Netanyahu = acting like a man-child?

[Tgo01]

I don't have much respect for the Obama administration anymore, they cost us a fortune and don't seem to really want to make the hard choices that will be required to solve the situation with Palestine.

Just sayin'...

[Warriorbird]

I didn't say Netanyahu was mature, I said Obama was a man child. You even quoted the post of mine where I didn't mention Netanyahu once and I specifically referred to Obama as a man child. I...don't know how I could have made my post anymore clear :/

Oh that's funny. I was reading the article and ignoring your raving. I understand that you only go after Obama because he's a liberal because of your guilt over all your liberal positions.

[Archigeek]

Just sayin'...

Grow up and own your position or move on.

[Tgo01]

Oh that's funny. I was reading the article and ignoring your raving.

WB flat out admits he doesn't read posts and just responds with what he thinks the person said...I never thought I'd see the day :O


Grow up and own your position or move on.

Uh, I did own my position. What the hell are you going on about? Taking lessons from WB there?

[Androidpk]

Funny stuff. Love the bomb pic dig. I don't have much respect for the Israeli government anymore, they cost us a fortune and don't seem to really want to make the hard choices that will be required to solve the situation with Palestine.

I'm guessing those hard choices involve not using their veto at the UN?

[Archigeek]

WB flat out admits he doesn't read posts and just responds with what he thinks the person said...I never thought I'd see the day :O



Uh, I did own my position. What the hell are you going on about? Taking lessons from WB there?

Altering a quote from someone without noting that you've altered it is owning your position? All you ever do is carpet bomb threads with crap. Keep it up.

[Tgo01]

Altering a quote from someone without noting that you've altered it is owning your position? All you ever do is carpet bomb threads with crap. Keep it up.

I just found it funny you give Israel shit when the Obama administration has done the exact same things but worse, yet you love one of those two and hate the other.

Stop being so sensitive.

[Warriorbird]

WB flat out admits he doesn't read posts and just responds with what he thinks the person said...I never thought I'd see the day :O



Uh, I did own my position. What the hell are you going on about? Taking lessons from WB there?

No no no. I read the article. You attacking the Obama administration for something and then not holding Israel accountable is readily apparent to anyone.

[Tgo01]

No no no. I read the article. You attacking the Obama administration for something and then not holding Israel accountable is readily apparent to anyone.

You not reading people's posts and making up what they said was apparent a long time ago. It's just awesome to see you admit it...and continue to admit it! :O

[Warriorbird]

You not reading people's posts and making up what they said was apparent a long time ago. It's just awesome to see you admit it...and continue to admit it! :O

There was no making up what you said. I simply responded to the article. The rest was chaff, like your entire crusade here.

[Tgo01]

There was no making up what you said. I simply responded to the article. The rest was chaff, like your entire crusade here.

What you did was the equivalent of me saying raspberries are the worst fruit ever and then you asking me to explain why I think grapes are good.

In other words it made no sense. You make no sense. No one but me makes sense.

/mic

[Warriorbird]

What you did was the equivalent of me saying raspberries are the worst fruit ever and then you asking me to explain why I think grapes are good.

In other words it made no sense. You make no sense. No one but me makes sense.

/mic

No buddy. We had two grapes. Both weren't ripe. You shouted out about the one being unripe while completely ignoring the other. You've ignored it in every aspect for ages though.

[Tgo01]

No buddy. We had two grapes. Both weren't ripe. You shouted out about the one being unripe while completely ignoring the other. You've ignored it in every aspect for ages though.

This is where I now use your own arguing technique and ask you to explain how Obama is acting mature in this situation, right?

Okay, so I will.

And you think Obama is mature?!?!?

[Warriorbird]

This is where I now use your own arguing technique and ask you to explain how Obama is acting mature in this situation, right?

Okay, so I will.

And you think Obama is mature?!?!?

A schoolyard is a schoolyard. He held back for years, then he gave in to Netanyahu's provocations. I'd have much preferred he told him to go away years ago. I fault them both.

[Atlanteax]

I didn't realize I was comparing anything at all.

Latrinsorm, King of the Strawmen!

No no, WB is king.

[Warriorbird]

No no, WB is king.

Atlanteax: "I'm not obsessed with WB! Really!"