Democrats and Israel

[Tgo01]

When did it become "cool" for American politicians to openly snub and mock Israel? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/20/white-house-netanyahu-speech_n_6723898.html)


WASHINGTON (AP) — In what is becoming an increasingly nasty grudge match, the White House is mulling ways to undercut Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's upcoming trip to Washington and blunt his message that a potential nuclear deal with Iran is bad for Israel and the world.

There are limits. Administration officials have discarded the idea of President Barack Obama himself giving an Iran-related address to rebut the two speeches Netanyahu is to deliver during his early March visit. But other options remain on the table.

Among them: a presidential interview with a prominent journalist known for coverage of the rift between Obama and Netanyahu, multiple Sunday show television appearances by senior national security aides and a pointed snub of America's leading pro-Israel lobby, which is holding its annual meeting while Netanyahu is in Washington, according to the officials.

The administration has already ruled out meetings between Netanyahu and Obama, saying it would be inappropriate for the two to meet so close to Israel's March 17 elections. But the White House is now doubling down on a cold-shoulder strategy, including dispatching Cabinet members out of the country and sending a lower-ranking official than normal to represent the administration at the annual policy conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the officials said.

Vice President Joe Biden will be away, his absence behind Netanyahu conspicuous in coverage of the speech to Congress. Other options were described by officials, who spoke only on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss internal deliberations.

Netanyahu's plan for a March 3 address to a joint meeting of Congress has further strained already tense ties between the U.S. and Israel. Congressional Republicans orchestrated Netanyahu's visit without consulting the White House or State Department, a move the Obama administration blasted as a break in diplomatic protocol. Some Democratic lawmakers say they will boycott the speech.

U.S. officials believe Netanyahu's trip to Washington is aimed primarily at derailing a nuclear deal with Iran, Obama's signature foreign policy objective. While Netanyahu has long been skeptical of the negotiations, his opposition has increased over what he sees as Obama's willingness to make concessions that would leave Iran on the brink of being able to build a nuclear weapon. His opposition has intensified as negotiations go into overdrive with an end-of-March deadline for a framework deal.

"I think this is a bad agreement that is dangerous for the state of Israel, and not just for it," Netanyahu said Thursday.

The difference of opinion over the deal has become unusually rancorous.

The White House and State Department have both publicly accused Israeli officials of leaking "cherry-picked" details of the negotiations to try to discredit the administration. And, in extraordinary admissions this week, the administration acknowledged that the U.S. is withholding sensitive details of the talks from Israel, its main Middle East ally, to prevent such leaks.

The rebukes have only emboldened the leader of Israel, whose country Iran has threatened to annihilate. He has a double-barrel attack on the Iran talks ready for when he arrives in Washington. Not only will he address Congress, he will also deliver similar remarks at the AIPAC conference, an event to which administrations past and present have traditionally sent top foreign policy officials.

But maybe not this year.

An AIPAC official said Friday that the group has not yet received any reply to its invitation for senior administration figures to attend the meeting that starts March 1. The official stressed that last-minute RSVPs are not unusual, but the White House has been signaling for some time that a Cabinet-level guest may not coming.

Instead, the administration is toying with the idea of sending newly installed Deputy Secretary of State Antony Blinken to speak to the conference, according to officials familiar with internal discussions on the matter. But it's possible Treasury Secretary Jack Lew could attend.

Biden and Secretary of State John Kerry, who have both previously addressed AIPAC, will be out of the country on foreign travel that appears to have been arranged to make them unavailable to speak. Biden will be visiting Uruguay and Guatemala on a trip that was announced after Netanyahu's speech was scheduled, while the State Department announced abruptly this week that Kerry will be traveling to as-yet-determined destinations for the duration of the AIPAC conference.

Obama spoke to AIPAC in 2012, while he was in the midst of his re-election campaign.

I really don't get it. I thought Israel was one of our closest allies. What are Obama and the Democrats hoping to accomplish from snubbing them like this?

[Androidpk]

When did it become cool? When Netanyahu bypassed the White House to make a speech in front of Congress.

[Tgo01]

When did it become cool? When Netanyahu bypassed the White House to make a speech in front of Congress.

So Obama has reduced the office of POTUS to that of a little child throwing a tantrum?

[Warriorbird]

When Republicans forgot that Israel has a political process and somehow took "support Israel" as "support highly conservative Israel when it uses bombings to warn people about bombings."

[Androidpk]

So Obama has reduced the office of POTUS to that of a little child throwing a tantrum?

Not at all.

[ClydeR]

A full page ad run in the NYT..

http://www.niacouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/NIAC-NYT-Ad-full.png

[Tgo01]

A full page ad run in the NYT..

http://www.niacouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/NIAC-NYT-Ad-full.png

Wow that really puts things into perspective.

Let me try that:

Who is more likely to have our back if shit gets real?

A) A long time and very close ally.
B) A backwards ass country who has repeatedly threatened us, called for the destruction of their neighboring countries, constantly tries to provoke shit and stones women to death for possessing a cell phone.

[Jarvan]

The diplomatic "Victory" with Iran assumes that Iran DOESN'T want a nuclear weapon.

Yeah.. lets trust Iran, they seem SOOOO trust worthy.

(About as Trustworthy as PK with your GS account info)

[waywardgs]

Defrosting relations with Iran is the smart move. They dislike Isis nearly as much as we do, and are willing and able to do something about it.

[Androidpk]

Defrosting relations with Iran is the smart move. They dislike Isis nearly as much as we do, and are willing and able to do something about it.

You are clearly an anti-semite.

[Tgo01]

Defrosting relations with Iran is the smart move. They dislike Isis nearly as much as we do, and are willing and able to do something about it.

I could be wrong but I think Israel probably hates ISIS more than anyone.

[Androidpk]

I could be wrong but I think Israel probably hates ISIS more than anyone.

Source?

[Jarvan]

Defrosting relations with Iran is the smart move. They dislike Isis nearly as much as we do, and are willing and able to do something about it.

Actually, they like ISIS. It gives them a chance to try to power grab. Also, they want the same thing as ISIS. THEY just want to be the ones in power at the end.

We will see Iran have nukes before Obama is out of office. Course he will blame that on Bush.

[Androidpk]

Actually, they like ISIS. It gives them a chance to try to power grab. Also, they want the same thing as ISIS. THEY just want to be the ones in power at the end.

We will see Iran have nukes before Obama is out of office. Course he will blame that on Bush.

They like ISIS, huh? Is that why Iranian Guard are fighting them and getting killed? It's all for show?

[Tgo01]

Source?

My brain.

[Androidpk]

My brain.

Link.

[Jarvan]

They like ISIS, huh? Is that why Iranian Guard are fighting them and getting killed? It's all for show?

Where are the guard fighting? Which country around there has the least to worry about ISIS? Iran isn't fighting ISIS out of the kindness of their hearts. THEY want the power, the land, and the people behind THEM. Not ISIS. So yeah, I will say that Iran is probably glad there is an ISIS, and they like the fact that they can fight them.

[Tgo01]

Link.

My brain

http://sourcefed.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/human-brain.jpg

> your brain

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Flickr_-_cyclonebill_-_Spejl%C3%A6g.jpg

[Androidpk]

Where are the guard fighting? Which country around there has the least to worry about ISIS? Iran isn't fighting ISIS out of the kindness of their hearts. THEY want the power, the land, and the people behind THEM. Not ISIS. So yeah, I will say that Iran is probably glad there is an ISIS, and they like the fact that they can fight them.

The Guard are fighting in Iraq. Israel has the least to worry. You're saying Iran isn't concerned about Sunni extremists? What, all of a sudden Iran loves Sunnis now? Wow.

[Tgo01]

The Guard are fighting in Iraq. Israel has the least to worry. You're saying Iran isn't concerned about Sunni extremists? What, all of a sudden Iran loves Sunnis now? Wow.

Israel has the least to worry about a crazy Islamic group that beheads Christians and burns fellow Muslims alive and is hell bent on taking over the Middle East?

Wat?

[Warriorbird]

Israel has the least to worry about a crazy Islamic group that beheads Christians and burns fellow Muslims alive and is hell bent on taking over the Middle East?

Wat?

It helps to study a bit of geography. I know kids miss that a lot these days.

[Androidpk]

Israel has the least to worry about a crazy Islamic group that beheads Christians and burns fellow Muslims alive and is hell bent on taking over the Middle East?

Wat?

Compared to other countries in that immediate region? Yes. Have they been attacked? Have they had millions of refugees pour across their borders?

[waywardgs]

Where are the guard fighting? Which country around there has the least to worry about ISIS? Iran isn't fighting ISIS out of the kindness of their hearts. THEY want the power, the land, and the people behind THEM. Not ISIS. So yeah, I will say that Iran is probably glad there is an ISIS, and they like the fact that they can fight them.

Hahahaha

[Tgo01]

It helps to study a bit of geography. I know kids miss that a lot these days.

http://www.solveisraelsproblems.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Tiny-Israel-on-the-Map-575x310.gif

What am I misunderstanding? :/


Have they been attacked? Have they had millions of refugees pour across their borders?

So because they haven't yet been attacked means they have nothing to worry about? ISIS is going after the easy pickings at the moment. I think that hardly proves Israel has the least to worry about.

Also of course they don't have millions of refugees pouring across their borders; refugees know Israel will just shoot them all if they attempt to cross.

[Androidpk]

http://www.solveisraelsproblems.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Tiny-Israel-on-the-Map-575x310.gif

What am I misunderstanding? :/



So because they haven't yet been attacked means they have nothing to worry about? ISIS is going after the easy pickings at the moment. I think that hardly proves Israel has the least to worry about.

Also of course they don't have millions of refugees pouring across their borders; refugees know Israel will just shoot them all if they attempt to cross.

I didn't say Israel has nothing to worry about. That isn't what was asked. The question was who has the least amount to worry. Out of all the militaries in that region it is Israel's who is the most capable.

[Warriorbird]

http://www.solveisraelsproblems.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Tiny-Israel-on-the-Map-575x310.gif

What am I misunderstanding? :/


Now compare that map to where ISIS is located.

[Tgo01]

Now compare that map to where ISIS is located.

http://www.solveisraelsproblems.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Tiny-Israel-on-the-Map-575x310.gif

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/17/24C8100000000578-0-image-a-31_1421494877281.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-l5SeGWB4teE/VL_KTPMCPVI/AAAAAAAAAZk/JZGDQFrQvnk/s1600/1.gif

So they're like a hop, skip, and a jump away? I'm really not understanding what you're getting at. You're acting as if Israel is on the other side of the world.

[JackWhisper]

Everyone here... +1 for Map-posting skills. Carry on.

[Warriorbird]

http://www.solveisraelsproblems.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Tiny-Israel-on-the-Map-575x310.gif

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/01/17/24C8100000000578-0-image-a-31_1421494877281.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-l5SeGWB4teE/VL_KTPMCPVI/AAAAAAAAAZk/JZGDQFrQvnk/s1600/1.gif

So they're like a hop, skip, and a jump away? I'm really not understanding what you're getting at. You're acting as if Israel is on the other side of the world.

And you're acting like they're right next door when they're literally countries away. They have bigger issues.

[Tgo01]

And you're acting like they're right next door when they're literally countries away. They have bigger issues.

Syria borders Israel :/

[Androidpk]

Syria borders Israel :/

So what country in that region has less to worry about than Israel?

[Warriorbird]

Syria borders Israel :/

Note ISIS controlled areas versus not. Then stop "defending" Israel like that Britney fan.

[JackWhisper]

So what country in that region has less to worry about than Israel?

Ones not bordering Syria. Duh!

[Jarvan]

The Guard are fighting in Iraq. Israel has the least to worry. You're saying Iran isn't concerned about Sunni extremists? What, all of a sudden Iran loves Sunnis now? Wow.

I am saying Iran loves ISIS like Clinton would Love to run against Rick Santorum. Are you really that stupid that you don't realize that ISIS is one of the best things to happen for Iran? Iran has already been working on basically taking over Iraq. Yes, they hate Suuni's. Sudam was Suuni. They hated Sudam. ~WE~ refuse to put boots on the ground.. so guess who the Shiite (who are in the majority in Iraq) saviors are.... wait for it... wait for it...

Iran. The fact that Iran's national Guard is INSIDE Iraq doesn't really worry anyone on here? Iran's Military has nothing to worry about with ISIS. ISIS is not really a threat to Iran, except for the fact that ~IRAN~ want's to be the power in that region. Do you really not comprehend that? Iran LOVES the fact that Obama is pretty much taking a hands off approach to ISIS. Now he is also going to pretty much Give them Nukes.

Obama may as well just hand Iran, Iraq AND Syria.

[Tgo01]

Note ISIS controlled areas versus not. Then stop "defending" Israel like that Britney fan.

So...ISIS controls almost half a country that literally borders Israel...yet ISIS is "literally countries" away from Israel? :/


Ones not bordering Syria. Duh!

/thread

[Warriorbird]

I am saying Iran loves ISIS like Clinton would Love to run against Rick Santorum. Are you really that stupid that you don't realize that ISIS is one of the best things to happen for Iran? Iran has already been working on basically taking over Iraq. Yes, they hate Suuni's. Sudam was Suuni. They hated Sudam. ~WE~ refuse to put boots on the ground.. so guess who the Shiite (who are in the majority in Iraq) saviors are.... wait for it... wait for it...

Iran. The fact that Iran's national Guard is INSIDE Iraq doesn't really worry anyone on here? Iran's Military has nothing to worry about with ISIS. ISIS is not really a threat to Iran, except for the fact that ~IRAN~ want's to be the power in that region. Do you really not comprehend that? Iran LOVES the fact that Obama is pretty much taking a hands off approach to ISIS. Now he is also going to pretty much Give them Nukes.

Obama may as well just hand Iran, Iraq AND Syria.

And again we have the conservative "Intervening is good! Intervening is bad!" dichotomy.

[Androidpk]

I am saying Iran loves ISIS like Clinton would Love to run against Rick Santorum. Are you really that stupid that you don't realize that ISIS is one of the best things to happen for Iran? Iran has already been working on basically taking over Iraq. Yes, they hate Suuni's. Sudam was Suuni. They hated Sudam. ~WE~ refuse to put boots on the ground.. so guess who the Shiite (who are in the majority in Iraq) saviors are.... wait for it... wait for it...

Iran. The fact that Iran's national Guard is INSIDE Iraq doesn't really worry anyone on here? Iran's Military has nothing to worry about with ISIS. ISIS is not really a threat to Iran, except for the fact that ~IRAN~ want's to be the power in that region. Do you really not comprehend that? Iran LOVES the fact that Obama is pretty much taking a hands off approach to ISIS. Now he is also going to pretty much Give them Nukes.

Obama may as well just hand Iran, Iraq AND Syria.

So you're an expert on Middle Eastern affairs, huh?

[JackWhisper]

So...ISIS controls almost half a country that literally borders Israel...yet ISIS is "literally countries" away from Israel? :/



/thread


TGO. This is me posting right next to you. But, in actuality, we are PAGES away from each other.

[Warriorbird]

So...ISIS controls almost half a country that literally borders Israel...yet ISIS is "literally countries" away from Israel? :/



/thread

And where is the concentration of the Syrian government's power. Where indeed is the capital of Syria?

[Androidpk]

And where is the concentration of the Syrian government's power. Where indeed is the capital of Syria?

Even if that wasn't true Israel has that border on complete lockdown. It would be suicide for ISIS to attack there.

[Tgo01]

TGO. This is me posting right next to you. But, in actuality, we are PAGES away from each other.

It's just like magic!


And where is the concentration of the Syrian government's power. Where indeed is the capital of Syria?

I don't think that changes the fact that ISIS isn't literally countries away from Israel.


Even if that wasn't true Israel has that border on complete lockdown. It would be suicide for ISIS to attack there.

You know you're talking about a group of people that invented suicide bombers, right?

[Androidpk]

So tgo, which country in that region has less to worry about?

[Parkbandit]

And you're acting like they're right next door when they're literally countries away. They have bigger issues.

It helps to study a bit of geography. I know kids miss that a lot these days.

[Warriorbird]

I don't think that changes the fact that ISIS isn't literally countries away from Israel.


I sure hope it highlights that the ones who have the most to worry about ARE Syria.

Then again, you seem to be doing the "Must defend Israel for the end times!" bullshit so maybe you're on the same page with ISIS.

[Tgo01]

I sure hope it highlights that the ones who have the most to worry about ARE Syria.

I don't think I said Israel has the most to worry about; I disagreed they have the least to worry about.


Then again, you seem to be doing the "Must defend Israel for the end times!" bullshit so maybe you're on the same page with ISIS.

???

[Wrathbringer]

I like turdles.

[Warriorbird]

I don't think I said Israel has the most to worry about; I disagreed they have the least to worry about.



???

So should the countries where ISIS is actually in be a priority, or Israel?

You obsess with Israel when they're capable of handling most of their own issues.

[Tgo01]

So should the countries where ISIS is actually in be a priority, or Israel?

A priority for who, exactly?


You obsess with Israel when they're capable of handling most of their own issues.

I thought that's what allies did?

[Androidpk]

I disagreed they have the least to worry about.



You keep saying that yet you won't tell us what country in that region you think has less to worry about than Israel.

[Warriorbird]

A priority for who, exactly?



I thought that's what allies did?

A priority for who is indeed the question. We made the shitty Iraq situation. That's on us. We made ISIS through sheer idiocy. If we can throw Iran at it, that's better.

We can certainly judge the actions taken by our allies. They can certainly do stupid nonsense. Hell, look at France.

[Tgo01]

You keep saying that yet you won't tell us what country in that region you think has less to worry about than Israel.

Oman, they are literally countries away from ISIS.


A priority for who is indeed the question.

So what's the answer?


We made the shitty Iraq situation. That's on us. We made ISIS through sheer idiocy. If we can throw Iran at it, that's better.

If Iran were to get involved with ISIS, do you think any part of that will to get involved will have anything at all to do with us?


We can certainly judge the actions taken by our allies. They can certainly do stupid nonsense. Hell, look at France.

Sure our allies can do stupid shit. I don't think that means we should take the side of a country that is the human equivalent of a lunatic over the side of our allies though.

[Warriorbird]

Oman, they are literally countries away from ISIS.



So what's the answer?



If Iran were to get involved with ISIS, do you think any part of that will to get involved will have anything at all to do with us?



Sure our allies can do stupid shit. I don't think that means we should take the side of a country that is the human equivalent of a lunatic over the side of our allies though.

I already gave you the answer but you're too dim to see it. I'm sorry.

Let's also see if you've ever heard of the whole difference between Sunni and Shiite, or if you remember who started out our allies in the region before we fucked that up.

[Androidpk]

Oman, they are literally countries away from ISIS.



So what's the answer?



If Iran were to get involved with ISIS, do you think any part of that will to get involved will have anything at all to do with us?



Sure our allies can do stupid shit. I don't think that means we should take the side of a country that is the human equivalent of a lunatic over the side of our allies though.



http://www.animated-gifs.eu/leisure-circus-clowns/0215.gif

[Tgo01]

So should the countries where ISIS is actually in be a priority, or Israel?


A priority for who, exactly?


A priority for who is indeed the question.


So what's the answer?


I already gave you the answer but you're too dim to see it. I'm sorry.

Is this another thing I don't understand like geography? :/

[Warriorbird]

Is this another thing I don't understand like geography? :/

The answer is we gleefully pit one enemy against another, Tsa'ah.

Let's see if you can abuse the multiquote feature more in your "MUST PROTECT ISRAEL BECAUSE THAT IS OUR ONLY GEOPOLITICAL CONCERN!" rampage.

It'll go right along with the telling everyone about the horrors of marijuana edibles when they've already been restricted and everybody thinks they should be.

I used to think you were smarter than this. What happened? Did you quit the ritalin?

[Tgo01]

The answer is we gleefully pit one enemy against another, Tsa'ah.

And how are we doing that with this nuclear treaty or whatever Obama is doing? You really think Iran is going to start attacking ISIS because of this deal? What about our past relations with Iran would lead you to believe they would so much as spit on us if we were on fire, much less get into a war for us?


Let's see if you can abuse the multiquote feature more in your "MUST PROTECT ISRAEL BECAUSE THAT IS OUR ONLY GEOPOLITICAL CONCERN!" rampage.

I wouldn't say they are our only geopolitical concern. I would say they are 100 times more important than Iran though.


It'll go right along with the telling everyone about the horrors of marijuana edibles when they've already been restricted and everybody thinks they should be.

Everyone thinks they should be? You sure about that?


I used to think you were smarter than this. What happened? Did you quit the ritalin?

What on Earth are you talking about?

[Androidpk]

The answer is we gleefully pit one enemy against another, Tsa'ah.

Let's see if you can abuse the multiquote feature more in your "MUST PROTECT ISRAEL BECAUSE THAT IS OUR ONLY GEOPOLITICAL CONCERN!" rampage.

It'll go right along with the telling everyone about the horrors of marijuana edibles when they've already been restricted and everybody thinks they should be.

I used to think you were smarter than this. What happened? Did you quit the ritalin?

Are you just now noticing his hard on for Israel?

[Androidpk]

And how are we doing that with this nuclear treaty or whatever Obama is doing? You really think Iran is going to start attacking ISIS because of this deal? What about our past relations with Iran would lead you to believe they would so much as spit on us if we were on fire, much less get into a war for us?



I wouldn't say they are our only geopolitical concern. I would say they are 100 times more important than Iran though.



Everyone thinks they should be? You sure about that?



What on Earth are you talking about?

Iran is already fighting ISIS..

[Warriorbird]

Iran is already fighting ISIS..

I do think he missed that. And no, I didn't just now notice his Israel obsession. It only just now got insane and spasmodic however.

[Tgo01]

Iran is already fighting ISIS..

Is that as a favor to us or in any way because of us?

[waywardgs]

Is that as a favor to us or in any way because of us?

What difference does it make? It benefits us to encourage it.

[waywardgs]

The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and all that.

[Tgo01]

What difference does it make? It benefits us to encourage it.

Because WB seems to think Iran is going to do anything for us or because of us. I just don't buy it. If Iran is already attacking ISIS out of their own volition then why do we need to cozy up to them?

Is this like awarding the class bully a gold star for going one day without beating anyone up while sending the straight A student to the principal's office for gasping while said bully received the gold star?

[Androidpk]

Because WB seems to think Iran is going to do anything for us or because of us. I just don't buy it. If Iran is already attacking ISIS out of their own volition then why do we need to cozy up to them?

Is this like awarding the class bully a gold star for going one day without beating anyone up while sending the straight A student to the principal's office for gasping while said bully received the gold star?

Yeah. Diplomacy is so terrible.

[waywardgs]

Because WB seems to think Iran is going to do anything for us or because of us. I just don't buy it. If Iran is already attacking ISIS out of their own volition then why do we need to cozy up to them?

Is this like awarding the class bully a gold star for going one day without beating anyone up while sending the straight A student to the principal's office for gasping while said bully received the gold star?

Our major beef with iran is a hostage situation that happened 35 years ago. It's time to gtf over it.

[Tgo01]

Yeah. Diplomacy is so terrible.

Wait, so being good at diplomacy means pissing off a long time and close ally?


Our major beef with iran is a hostage situation that happened 35 years ago. It's time to gtf over it.

That's our only beef with Iran? :/

[Androidpk]

Wait, so being good at diplomacy means pissing off a long time and close ally?



That's our only beef with Iran? :/

So we shouldn't engage with Iran because it upsets one of the political parties in Israel? You think a foreign country should dictate US foreign policy?

[Tgo01]

So we shouldn't engage with Iran because it upsets one of the political parties in Israel?


Yeah. Diplomacy is so terrible.

I love it when pk argues with himself.

[Androidpk]

I love it when pk argues with himself.

I love it when tgo desperately tries to deflect.

[Warriorbird]

Wait, so being good at diplomacy means pissing off a long time and close ally?

They were already going to treat Obama like shit because of your party. What exactly does he have to lose?

[Tgo01]

They were already going to treat Obama like shit because of your party. What exactly does he have to lose?

So being good at diplomacy means acting like a child throwing a tantrum because they are being meanie heads?

I'm learning all sorts of awesome stuff today: Israel is countries away from Syria, how to be good at diplomacy.

[Warriorbird]

So being good at diplomacy means acting like a child throwing a tantrum because they are being meanie heads?

I'm learning all sorts of awesome stuff today: Israel is countries away from Syria, how to be good at diplomacy.

No, moron. Using one enemy against another is being good at diplomacy.

Just because Israel bought the establishment wing of the Republican Party (courtesy of Adelson and that super genius Citizens United decision) doesn't mean everybody else got bought.

[Tgo01]

No, moron. Using one enemy against another is being good at diplomacy.

And again, what on God's green Earth makes you think Iran is going to do anything for us, especially fight ISIS for us? Just saying it doesn't make it so :/


Just because Israel bought the establishment wing of the Republican Party (courtesy of Adelson and that super genius Citizens United decision) doesn't mean everybody else got bought.

Oh okay. Israel has apparently only been a close ally since the past couple of years.

Regardless; even if Obama wanted to ignore Israel's concerns in favor of "closer" relations with Iran (HAHAHAHAHA) does he really have to go the extra mile to snub Israel as was demonstrated in the original post in this thread?

[Androidpk]

So being good at diplomacy means acting like a child throwing a tantrum because they are being meanie heads?

I'm learning all sorts of awesome stuff today: Israel is countries away from Syria, how to be good at diplomacy.

I must have missed something. Who is throwing a tantrum?

[Tgo01]

I must have missed something. Who is throwing a tantrum?

Did you not read the original post in this thread?

[Androidpk]

Did you not read the original post in this thread?

I did. No where does it say anything about the White House throwing a tantrum. You should try to time down your hyperbole just a little bit. Stop being so sensational.

[Warriorbird]

And again, what on God's green Earth makes you think Iran is going to do anything for us, especially fight ISIS for us? Just saying it doesn't make it so :/



Oh okay. Israel has apparently only been a close ally since the past couple of years.

Regardless; even if Obama wanted to ignore Israel's concerns in favor of "closer" relations with Iran (HAHAHAHAHA) does he really have to go the extra mile to snub Israel as was demonstrated in the original post in this thread?

Incentives. What's the one thing Iran wants most on the world stage?

Netanyahu acting like an ass to Obama for years and campaigning for Republicans isn't likely to somehow lead to friendliness. Obama has had two campaigns against him funded by Israel. Obama's finally got it through his thick skull how pointless it is to work with conservatives.

[Tgo01]

I did. No where does it say anything about the White House throwing a tantrum. You should try to time down your hyperbole just a little bit. Stop being so sensational.

You really need your news spoon fed to you this much that you literally can't arrive to your own conclusions unless a news article specifically tells you what to think? :/

[Tgo01]

Incentives. What's the one thing Iran wants most on the world stage?

You think Iran is going to fight ISIS for us for some sort of incentives? How much marijuana candy have you eaten in the past few hours?


Netanyahu acting like an ass to Obama for years and campaigning for Republicans isn't likely to somehow lead to friendliness. Obama has had two campaigns against him funded by Israel. Obama's finally got it through his thick skull how pointless it is to work with conservatives.

So Obama's poor wittle feelings are more important than our relations with Israel?

[Warriorbird]

You really need your news spoon fed to you this much that you literally can't arrive to your own conclusions unless a news article specifically tells you what to think? :/

I got it. We're supposed to agree with your interpretations of the news even more when you've shown how rational you are lately.


You think Iran is going to fight ISIS for us for some sort of incentives? How much marijuana candy have you eaten in the past few hours?



So Obama's poor wittle feelings are more important than our relations with Israel?

Sanctions matter, whether you understand them or not.

Are you going to go out of your way to help somebody who campaigned against you? Sure, we'll help if they get attacked directly. We'll likely help with intelligence work like Stuxnet. It doesn't exactly motivate somebody though. It isn't about "feelings."

[Androidpk]

You really need your news spoon fed to you this much that you literally can't arrive to your own conclusions unless a news article specifically tells you what to think? :/

Oh I can arrive at my own conclusions, of which I derive from facts, not emotion like you.

[Tgo01]

I got it. We're supposed to agree with your interpretations of the news even more when you've shown how rational you are lately.

Hey you can disagree with my interpretations all you want. I just hope you have something more to say than "But the article didn't specifically say Obama was throwing a tantrum! If it ain't in print, it didn't happen!"


Oh I can arrive at my own conclusions, of which I derive from facts, not emotion like you.

Like Obama not sending a high ranking official to that meeting as has been customary for years now is because Obama's feelings were hurt, right?

Oh wait, that was more awesome "diplomacy" at work?

[Warriorbird]

Hey you can disagree with my interpretations all you want. I just hope you have something more to say than "But the article didn't specifically say Obama was throwing a tantrum! If it ain't in print, it didn't happen!"

Maybe just maybe there might've been some other aspects of the article you didn't focus on when you were derping out and getting in your feelings.

[Jarvan]

So you're an expert on Middle Eastern affairs, huh?

Nope. never claimed to be an expert. Hell, I haven't even said I read books about it...

Btw.. I know this woman, she is cute and rich.. can you give me some pointers? I like her stuff in GS.

[waywardgs]

You think Iran is going to fight ISIS for us for some sort of incentives? How much marijuana candy have you eaten in the past few hours?


Iran is already fighting ISIS. What's wrong with encouraging that? Besides, I don't see Israel doing shit about it.

[Androidpk]

Hey you can disagree with my interpretations all you want. I just hope you have something more to say than "But the article didn't specifically say Obama was throwing a tantrum! If it ain't in print, it didn't happen!"



Like Obama not sending a high ranking official to that meeting as has been customary for years now is because Obama's feelings were hurt, right?

Oh wait, that was more awesome "diplomacy" at work?

Is it also customary for the speaker of the house to bypass the executive branch when dealing with foreign heads of state? That's democracy?

[Androidpk]

Nope. never claimed to be an expert. Hell, I haven't even said I read books about it...

Btw.. I know this woman, she is cute and rich.. can you give me some pointers? I like her stuff in GS.

Bribe her with your dresses. Maybe you'll even be able to get her to come to your birthday party.

[JackWhisper]

Btw.. I know this woman, she is cute and rich.. can you give me some pointers? I like her stuff in GS.

:lol:

[Tgo01]

Hey guys, look! This is actually specifically mentioned in the article:


But the White House is now doubling down on a cold-shoulder strategy

Another word for "tantrum" is anger.
A synonym for anger is "displeasure".

A synonym for "cold-shoulder" is "disapproval."
A synonym for "disapproval" is "displeasure."

BAM! It's now right there in black and white. That's not even a whole 7 degrees of separation. Granted the border between Syria and Israel are closer than my linking cold-shoulder and tantrum but hey!

[JackWhisper]

Damnit TGO. Now I'm stuck on 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon.

[Warriorbird]

Hey guys, look! This is actually specifically mentioned in the article:



Another word for "tantrum" is anger.
A synonym for anger is "displeasure".

A synonym for "cold-shoulder" is "disapproval."
A synonym for "disapproval" is "displeasure."

BAM! It's now right there in black and white. That's not even a whole 7 degrees of separation. Granted the border between Syria and Israel are closer than my linking cold-shoulder and tantrum but hey!

How's about you do a bit more reading in the article. Why exactly might Obama not be feeling super kindly?

[Gelston]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/3f38915a833328f5965d1d5bc9a5e0e7/tumblr_mlpx4l4dVF1qmuyt5o1_500.jpg

[Tgo01]

How's about you do a bit more reading in the article. Why exactly might Obama not be feeling super kindly?

Because Obama's feelings were hurt?

[waywardgs]

Hey guys, look! This is actually specifically mentioned in the article:



Another word for "tantrum" is anger.
A synonym for anger is "displeasure".

A synonym for "cold-shoulder" is "disapproval."
A synonym for "disapproval" is "displeasure."

BAM! It's now right there in black and white. That's not even a whole 7 degrees of separation. Granted the border between Syria and Israel are closer than my linking cold-shoulder and tantrum but hey!

cold shoulder-disregard-apathy-stoicism-patience-tolerance!

[Tgo01]

Damnit TGO. Now I'm stuck on 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon.

Muhahahahaha!


cold shoulder-disregard-apathy-stoicism-patience-tolerance!

It only took me 4 synonyms to link "cold-shoulder" with "tantrum" therefore you fail.

[waywardgs]

Muhahahahaha!



It only took me 4 synonyms to link "cold-shoulder" with "tantrum" therefore you fail.

Within the 7. WITHIN THE 7!!!

[Jarvan]

Our major beef with iran is a hostage situation that happened 35 years ago. It's time to gtf over it.

Yep. You win the Moron award in this thread. Thought PK had it, but you stole it from him.

[Androidpk]

cold shoulder-disregard-apathy-stoicism-patience-tolerance!

/thread.

[Tgo01]

Within the 7. WITHIN THE 7!!!

...you suck :(

[Jarvan]

Incentives. What's the one thing Iran wants most on the world stage?

Netanyahu acting like an ass to Obama for years and campaigning for Republicans isn't likely to somehow lead to friendliness. Obama has had two campaigns against him funded by Israel. Obama's finally got it through his thick skull how pointless it is to work with conservatives.

Hard to say.. Complete and utter destruction of Israel.. or an Islamic Caliphate they are in charge of.

Not sure either of those are good for us or Israel.

As to Israel in the pocket of Republicans....

Hmm...

Which way do more American Jews vote?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html

Also.. Which future presidential candidate's husband pardoned 4 Jewish criminals in New York.. where oddly enough his wife had just ran and won?

Yep.. the Jewish vote is firmly in the Republican side.

[waywardgs]

Yep. You win the Moron award in this thread. Thought PK had it, but you stole it from him.

Oh good you're back. I was getting bored. Let's here some more genius ideas, Jarvy!

[Warriorbird]

Hard to say.. Complete and utter destruction of Israel.. or an Islamic Caliphate they are in charge of.

Not sure either of those are good for us or Israel.

As to Israel in the pocket of Republicans....

Hmm...

Which way do more American Jews vote?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/jewvote.html

Also.. Which future presidential candidate's husband pardoned 4 Jewish criminals in New York.. where oddly enough his wife had just ran and won?

Yep.. the Jewish vote is firmly in the Republican side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Adelson

[Jarvan]

Oh.. and why would Israel even try to side with Republicans against Obama in his elections?


'2008

On Israel's 60th birthday, Ahmadinejad said:
“ Those who think they can revive the stinking corpse of the usurping and fake Israeli regime by throwing a birthday party are seriously mistaken. Today the reason for the Zionist regime's existence is questioned, and this regime is on its way to annihilation."[14] ”

Ahmadinejad also stated that Israel has reached the end like a dead rat after being slapped by the Lebanese. Later, he said: The Zionist regime is dying, and The criminals imagine that by holding celebrations (...) they can save the Zionist regime from death. Ahmadinejad also stated that They should know that regional nations hate this fake and criminal regime and if the smallest and briefest chance is given to regional nations they will destroy (it).[15]

In his address to the 2008 United Nations General Assembly, Ahmadinejad said that today the Zionist regime is on a definite slope to collapse"


"CHICAGO, Oct. 31 — Senator Barack Obama says he would “engage in aggressive personal diplomacy” with Iran if elected president and would offer economic inducements and a possible promise not to seek “regime change” if Iran stopped meddling in Iraq and cooperated on terrorism and nuclear issues. "

"Making clear that he planned to talk to Iran without preconditions, Mr. Obama emphasized further that “changes in behavior” by Iran could possibly be rewarded with membership in the World Trade Organization, other economic benefits and security guarantees. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/02/us/politics/02obama.html?

Yeah.. you know.. I ALWAYS support someone that is willing to deal with NO PRECONDITIONS with someone that wants to utterly wipe me and my people out.

So yeah... if I was Israel, I would have tried to not get him elected either.

I mean.. Clinton was kind tough on Iran. Obama on the other hand... Well.. I think his diplomatic strategy seems like.. kill them with kindness. Except no killing.

[Jarvan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_Adelson

Your point?

Obama received Millions in donations from foreign countries. Like I said in my post above... Obama wanted to deal with Iran with no preconditions, and wanted to help them basically join the "adults".

Meanwhile.. Iran wants to kill every last Jew.

So yeah.. I can't see ANY reason why Israel wouldn't support Obama.

[Warriorbird]

Your point?

Obama received Millions in donations from foreign countries. Like I said in my post above... Obama wanted to deal with Iran with no preconditions, and wanted to help them basically join the "adults".

Meanwhile.. Iran wants to kill every last Jew.

So yeah.. I can't see ANY reason why Israel wouldn't support Obama.

Calm your paranoid anti Obama ranting for a moment.

It doesn't matter to Obama that he got millions in donations from other countries (though he's probably thankful to Citizens United too).

Why would Adelson and Netanyahu make him particularly want to go out of the way for them?

[Jarvan]

Here is a hypothetical situation which I don't really think is all that unlikely.

We sign this deal with Iran. They Pinky Promise not to try for nukes. meanwhile they will fight ISIS on the ground out of the kindness of their hearts.

Year or two later, Iran has a few hundred thousand troops in Iraq fighting ISIS. They Beat ISIS and don't want to leave.. cause.. well.. they are already there.

If I ran has no nukes, we and the world could fairly easily tell them to get out.

If Iran has nukes.. now they own Iraq.

That's if Iraq.. whom nearly half of the population is Shiite, doesn't just invite them in to ensure stability.

[Androidpk]

If Israel is so dead set against Iran having nukes maybe they should give up their own nuclear weapons.

[Jarvan]

Calm your paranoid anti Obama ranting for a moment.

It doesn't matter to Obama that he got millions in donations from other countries (though he's probably thankful to Citizens United too).

Why would Adelson and Netanyahu make him particularly want to go out of the way for them?

So.. because Netanyahu and Adelson didn't give him money, he is willing to give Iran nearly anything they want out of spite?

See... I don't think you see how things work. Israel bet against Obama from the start because he was fucking nuts when it came to Iran. Why would Adelson and Netanyahu root FOR the guy that wants to be friends with the people that want to wipe them off the earth?

See.. you are basing everything on what happened AFTER Obama said where he stood on Iran. Not the fact that HE SAID IT FIRST.

[Gelston]

If Israel is so dead set against Iran having nukes maybe they should give up their own nuclear weapons.

I don't see how that relates at all. That is like saying "If the US is so deadset on North Korea or Iran not having nukes, maybe we should give up ours."

[Jarvan]

If Israel is so dead set against Iran having nukes maybe they should give up their own nuclear weapons.

Technically speaking, Israel has never confirmed they have nukes. They have always stated they would "Never be the first to introduce nuclear weapons into the Middle East". Also.. Israel never signed the NPT.

Also.. that's like saying. If America is so dead set against Iran not having nukes, they should give up their own nukes.

Iran did sign the NPT by the way.


ON TOP OF THAT.

Israel has never said that Iran should not be allowed to exist, and should be wiped from the face of the world.

Thank you.. try again.

[Androidpk]

Technically speaking, Israel has never confirmed they have nukes. They have always stated they would "Never be the first to introduce nuclear weapons into the Middle East". Also.. Israel never signed the NPT.

Also.. that's like saying. If America is so dead set against Iran not having nukes, they should give up their own nukes.

Iran did sign the NPT by the way.


ON TOP OF THAT.

Israel has never said that Iran should not be allowed to exist, and should be wiped from the face of the world.

Thank you.. try again.

World's worst kept secret.

[Tgo01]

If Israel is so dead set against Iran having nukes maybe they should give up their own nuclear weapons.

Yeah what Gelston and Jarvan said.

[Androidpk]

I don't see how that relates at all. That is like saying "If the US is so deadset on North Korea or Iran not having nukes, maybe we should give up ours."

Funny, I didn't know the US and Korea were in the same geographical region.

[Gelston]

Hell, they very well might not have them, and could just be purposely vague on the subject so local nations aren't quite sure and don't want to start shit.

[Gelston]

Funny, I didn't know the US and Korea were in the same geographical region.

Funny, I didn't know ICBMs stuck in one geographical region.

[Androidpk]

Yeah what Gelston and Jarvan said.

Uh huh. Because the US hadn't been reducing its nuclear weapons in order to get Russia to do the same, right?

[Tgo01]

Funny, I didn't know the US and Korea were in the same geographical region.

http://rorygregg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shifting_goals2.jpg


Uh huh. Because the US hadn't been reducing its nuclear weapons in order to get Russia to do the same, right?

Did the US get rid of their nuclear weapons then ask Russia to do the same?

[Androidpk]

Funny, I didn't know ICBMs stuck in one geographical region.

Irrelevant.

[Gelston]

Uh huh. Because the US hadn't been reducing its nuclear weapons in order to get Russia to do the same, right?

Yeah, we reduced from 10s of thousands to thousands. Lets go ahead and reduce to like, 100. Really, I don't know why you'd need more.

It is a pointless gesture, because we still have enough to end the world anyways.

[Tgo01]

Irrelevant.

http://rorygregg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shifting_goals2.jpg

[Androidpk]

http://rorygregg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shifting_goals2.jpg



Did the US get rid of their nuclear weapons then ask Russia to do the same?


That isn't shifting anything. Israel has nukes. Other countries in that region want them because of that.

[Gelston]

Irrelevant.

It is just as relevant as what you originally said was.

Nukes are a worldwide deal, not a small geographical area thing.

[Androidpk]

It is just as relevant as what you originally said was.

Nukes are a worldwide deal, not a small geographical area thing.

Naturally, I won't deny that.

[Gelston]

The shifting of goals was suddenly saying it matters because Iran and Israel are in the same "geographical region."

The US has a lot of nukes yet I'm pretty sure they're the only country in the Western hemisphere to possess them. Surely everyone must want them!

Beware the nuclear armed Mexico.

[Tgo01]

Beware the nuclear armed Mexico.

Sorry I deleted that post because I realized that technically Russia is in both the Western and Eastern hemispheres.

Was going to play it safe and just say North and South America. Because reasons.

[Androidpk]

You guys are just being straight up stupid now. Enjoy your circle jerk.

[Gelston]

You guys are just being straight up stupid now. Enjoy your circle jerk.

Personal attacks now huh?

You've been stupid since the start, but I guess you've already been bukkaked enough.

[Tgo01]

You guys are just being straight up stupid now. Enjoy your circle jerk.

What? We're just going by what you said.

First you said Israel should give up their nukes before they tell Iran to stop wanting nukes, we told you that's silly reasoning.

Then you said it's different with the US and North Korea because Israel and Iran are in the same geopolitical region, we told you that's silly because nukes tend not to stay in geopolitical regions.

Then you said it's different because Israel has them therefore their neighbors would want them and yet none of the US' immediate neighbors have them.

Then you said it's different because you said so and that's that.

[Androidpk]

Funny, I didn't know the US was at odds with either Canada or Mexico. International politics, how do they work!?

[Tgo01]

Funny, I didn't know the US was at odds with either Canada or Mexico. International politics, how do they work!?

http://rorygregg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shifting_goals2.jpg

[Androidpk]

http://rorygregg.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shifting_goals2.jpg

It's okay, tgo, someday you'll be able to hold your own in an intellectual conversation. Maybe you can go to college with jarvan.

[Jarvan]

Funny, I didn't know the US was at odds with either Canada or Mexico. International politics, how do they work!?

Last time I checked... neither Mexico nor Canada has sworn to wipe us off the face of the planet.


Here is a funny tidbit.

If the Ukraine hadn't given back the 5,000 Nukes it had on hand when it left the USSR... do you think Putin would be invading it right now?

It's pretty much agreed that the US or Russia will never really fire off it's nukes. I don't know if Iran feels the same way, but I doubt it.

Not to mention.. Iran's nukes would NOT stay in Iran. They are a know sponsor of Terrorism. How long till at the least a Dirty bomb would be used, and they would claim. "We had nothing to do with it".

[Jarvan]

It's okay, tgo, someday you'll be able to hold your own in an intellectual conversation. Maybe you can go to college with jarvan.

How would you ever know if someone was even having one? Don't you have to have an intellect to even determine that PK?

Oh wait.. you read some books once.

[Androidpk]

How would you ever know if someone was even having one? Don't you have to have an intellect to even determine that PK?

Oh wait.. you read some books once.

Unlike you I have real world experience as well as a college education.

[Warriorbird]

So.. because Netanyahu and Adelson didn't give him money, he is willing to give Iran nearly anything they want out of spite?

See... I don't think you see how things work. Israel bet against Obama from the start because he was fucking nuts when it came to Iran. Why would Adelson and Netanyahu root FOR the guy that wants to be friends with the people that want to wipe them off the earth?

See.. you are basing everything on what happened AFTER Obama said where he stood on Iran. Not the fact that HE SAID IT FIRST.

If by "fucking nuts" you mean Obama not saying "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran." then it appears we've just got a failure to communicate.

[Latrinsorm]

Your point? Obama received Millions in donations from foreign countries. Like I said in my post above... Obama wanted to deal with Iran with no preconditions, and wanted to help them basically join the "adults". Meanwhile.. Iran wants to kill every last Jew. So yeah.. I can't see ANY reason why Israel wouldn't support Obama.Iran wants no such thing. There are tens of thousands of Jews living peacefully in Iran. They even have an MP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siamak_Moreh_Sedgh), a ten-to-one over-representation of their percentage of the population. There are even Jews who work for Iran (http://www.jta.org/2014/01/28/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/israeli-neturei-karta-member-sentenced-for-spying-for-iran) to bring about the downfall of Israel. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism at all is incorrect. Equating it with genocidal desires is just as wrong.

To take a swing at Iran and miss so badly... that was bad, and you should feel bad.

[Parkbandit]

Oh good you're back. I was getting bored. Let's here some more genius ideas, Jarvy!

Irony...

[ClydeR]

Iran wants no such thing. There are tens of thousands of Jews living peacefully in Iran. They even have an MP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siamak_Moreh_Sedgh), a ten-to-one over-representation of their percentage of the population. There are even Jews who work for Iran (http://www.jta.org/2014/01/28/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/israeli-neturei-karta-member-sentenced-for-spying-for-iran) to bring about the downfall of Israel. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism at all is incorrect. Equating it with genocidal desires is just as wrong.

There are Jews in Iran, but they don't have equal rights. Iran reserves some seats in parliament for religious minorities, but Jews may not hold high office in Iran. Yes yes, I know that's not the same as genocide.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2015/02/19/387265766/irans-jews-its-our-home-and-we-plan-to-stay

[Jarvan]

If by "fucking nuts" you mean Obama not saying "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran." then it appears we've just got a failure to communicate.

If the Enemy of my Enemy is my friend... then the Friend (Obama) of my Enemy (Iran) is my Enemy.

No.. he was fucking nuts when he said flat out he will sit down with Iran, with no Preconditions. Hell, McCain didn't even call for Bomb bomb bomb bomb. Frankly.. I haven't heard one Person here call for Bomb them. So the failure is yours.

I am sorry.. the but the fact that you honestly think that it's ok for THE PRESIDENT to slight our biggest ally in the middle east because they didn't want him to be President because of his views and opinions... just really shows how partisan you really are. It's really kinda petty of him, and you.

[Jarvan]

Iran wants no such thing. There are tens of thousands of Jews living peacefully in Iran. They even have an MP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siamak_Moreh_Sedgh), a ten-to-one over-representation of their percentage of the population. There are even Jews who work for Iran (http://www.jta.org/2014/01/28/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/israeli-neturei-karta-member-sentenced-for-spying-for-iran) to bring about the downfall of Israel. Equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism at all is incorrect. Equating it with genocidal desires is just as wrong.

To take a swing at Iran and miss so badly... that was bad, and you should feel bad.

Hitler kept some Jews around as well. But yeah.. he wasn't trying to wipe them out or anything.

[Androidpk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

[Jarvan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_nYg

I notice how it JUST happens to cut off before he gives his actual reply. Go figure.

[Androidpk]

Right, he was only joking. Totally not a hawk.

[Tgo01]

I think a little lesson on civics is in order here for certain members of this board:

Who is a current US Senator and who was a US Senator in 2007:

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/M000303.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Hassan_Rouhani.jpg

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/mahmadinejad/images/mahmoud_ahmadinejad1.jpg

[waywardgs]

Irony...

Did you have anything useful to add?

Nevermind. Thinking you might DOES make me a moron.

Here, I'll help you out so we can get it out of the way a little quicker this time… "You're a homeless retarded gay bla bla bla my insulation company bla bla bla kegerator bla bla bla you're a useless idiot bla bla bla."

[waywardgs]

If the Enemy of my Enemy is my friend... then the Friend (Obama) of my Enemy (Iran) is my Enemy.

No.. he was fucking nuts when he said flat out he will sit down with Iran, with no Preconditions. Hell, McCain didn't even call for Bomb bomb bomb bomb. Frankly.. I haven't heard one Person here call for Bomb them. So the failure is yours.

I am sorry.. the but the fact that you honestly think that it's ok for THE PRESIDENT to slight our biggest ally in the middle east because they didn't want him to be President because of his views and opinions... just really shows how partisan you really are. It's really kinda petty of him, and you.

Can you come up with a better solution than encouraging a country we don't like too much (IRAN) fight a group we REALLY don't like (ISIS) in exchange for a few diplomatic peanuts?

Did you want to handle this by going in with servicemen again?

And no, your magical jack bauer dickshrivel virus isn't an option.

[Androidpk]

Did you have anything useful to add?

Nevermind. Thinking you might DOES make me a moron.

Here, I'll help you out so we can get it out of the way a little quicker this time… "You're a homeless retarded gay bla bla bla my insulation company bla bla bla kegerator bla bla bla you're a useless idiot bla bla bla."

You forgot the, "my life is wonderful and yours sucks!" part.

[Tgo01]

Can you come up with a better solution than encouraging a country we don't like too much (IRAN) fight a group we REALLY don't like (ISIS) in exchange for a few diplomatic peanuts?

Did you want to handle this by going in with servicemen again?

And no, your magical jack bauer dickshrivel virus isn't an option.

I really don't understand why people think it's necessary for Obama to go out of his way to piss Israel off in order to appease Iran. And appease Iran to do what, exactly?

I mean, sure, okay, fine. Obama insists this nuclear plan is best for the US and so screw Israel? Okay. Sounds good. But does Obama have to go out of his way to give Israel the "cold-shoulder"? Is pissing off an ally of ours for...what exactly I'm not sure yet, really the best for our nation? Or is it what's best for Obama's ego?

[waywardgs]

You forgot the, "my life is wonderful and yours sucks!" part.

That was implied by him owning a kegerator.

[waywardgs]

I really don't understand why people think it's necessary for Obama to go out of his way to piss Israel off in order to appease Iran. And appease Iran to do what, exactly?

I mean, sure, okay, fine. Obama insists this nuclear plan is best for the US and so screw Israel? Okay. Sounds good. But does Obama have to go out of his way to give Israel the "cold-shoulder"? Is pissing off an ally of ours for...what exactly I'm not sure yet, really the best for our nation? Or is it what's best for Obama's ego?

I'm not even talking about this diplomatic tiff between israel and the administration. I think it's stupid. I'm more interested in how we plan on handling isis.

[Tgo01]

I'm not even talking about this diplomatic tiff between israel and the administration. I think it's stupid. I'm more interested in how we plan on handling isis.

Finally we're getting somewhere. Obama sucks! waywardgs agrees!

[waywardgs]

Finally we're getting somewhere. Obama sucks! waywardgs agrees!

Where does that get is exactly? No one has yet to actually respond to the question I keep asking. Why is it bad to encourage Iran to fight our battle with Isis for us?

"because it hurts irael's feelings" isn't a good answer. fyi.

[Tgo01]

Where does that get is exactly? No one has yet to actually respond to the question I keep asking. Why is it bad to encourage Iran to fight our battle with Isis for us?

I don't think it's bad to get anyone to fight ISIS. I think the bad part comes in pissing off an ally in order to do so...assuming that's even what Obama's ultimate goal is.

Personally I think we should be doing more. Obviously the air strikes aren't doing shit in the grand scheme of things.

[Warriorbird]

I don't think it's bad to get anyone to fight ISIS. I think the bad part comes in pissing off an ally in order to do so...assuming that's even what Obama's ultimate goal is.

Personally I think we should be doing more. Obviously the air strikes aren't doing shit in the grand scheme of things.

Israel's been treating Obama badly for a long time. This isn't new.

[waywardgs]

I don't think it's bad to get anyone to fight ISIS. I think the bad part comes in pissing off an ally in order to do so...assuming that's even what Obama's ultimate goal is.

Personally I think we should be doing more. Obviously the air strikes aren't doing shit in the grand scheme of things.

The fact is there AREN'T many good options. I don't think we want to send our military back on the ground in Iraq. If Israel gets its panties in a bunch about us talking to iran, well, so be it. Lesser of two evils.

[Androidpk]

Obviously the air strikes aren't doing shit in the grand scheme of things.

Kobane disagrees.

[Tgo01]

"because it hurts irael's feelings" isn't a good answer. fyi.

It's an awesome answer.


Israel's been treating Obama badly for a long time. This isn't new.

What is more important: Obama's poor feelings or the best interests of the US?


The fact is there AREN'T many good options. I don't think we want to send our military back on the ground in Iraq.

Why are we assuming pissing off Israel in order to secure some nuclear deal with Iran is a good option to defeat ISIS? Can someone link these two together for me because I can't help but feel some people are doing some awe-inspiring mental gymnastics in this respect.

[Androidpk]

As the saying goes sometimes you have to break an egg to make an omelette. Look at Turkey. Turkey is a close ally of the US yet we had to step on their toes in regards to the fight against ISIS.

[Warriorbird]

What is more important: Obama's poor feelings or the best interests of the US?

Just because a particular political party thinks things are in the "best interests" of the US doesn't mean everybody agrees.

You're a troll that's so twisted up that you follow the opposite party because the Democrats aren't "Democrat" enough.

You can't expect every politician to think like you, much less agree. You never even paid any attention to the opposite side listed in your own initial post. That's how thick your siege mentality is.

[waywardgs]

It's an awesome answer.



What is more important: Obama's poor feelings or the best interests of the US?



Why are we assuming pissing off Israel in order to secure some nuclear deal with Iran is a good option to defeat ISIS? Can someone link these two together for me because I can't help but feel some people are doing some awe-inspiring mental gymnastics in this respect.

It's about opening relations with Iran. Starting a dialogue, defrosting the relationship, whatever you want to call it. I'm sorry Israel is gonna get butthurt, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. We've got bigger fish to fry than the emotional stability of a country who's existence we basically fund. They'll be ok, I promise. Our fucking stupid war in iraq created a terrorist state. We now have to deal with that somehow. I still have yet to hear you or jarvan talk about a different solution. The syrian kurds? Please. I appreciate their efforts, but they're not up to the task.

[Tgo01]

Kobane disagrees.

You mean how we kept bombing ISIS fighters yet they still managed to take over half of the city at one point and it took 4 months of additional ground support to keep pouring into the city before they finally forced ISIS to flee from the city?

Oh yeah. That's some awesome evidence of US air strikes working.


As the saying goes sometimes you have to break an egg to make an omelette. Look at Turkey. Turkey is a close ally of the US yet we had to step on their toes in regards to the fight against ISIS.

A) I don't think Turkey is anywhere as close of an ally as Israel.
B) Did we go out of our way to snub them or did we just do things they didn't agree with?


Just because a particular political party thinks things are in the "best interests" of the US doesn't mean everybody agrees.

You're right, WB. Obviously going out of our way to piss of an ally is a good thing. Why stop there? I'm sure Iran would love it if we broke all diplomatic and trade ties with the UK. I bet Iran would even really get serious about ISIS if we did so! Let's do it! We must defeat ISIS via Iran!

[Androidpk]

It's about opening relations with Iran. Starting a dialogue, defrosting the relationship, whatever you want to call it. I'm sorry Israel is gonna get butthurt, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. We've got bigger fish to fry than the emotional stability of a country who's existence we basically fund. They'll be ok, I promise. Our fucking stupid war in iraq created a terrorist state. We now have to deal with that somehow. I still have yet to hear you or jarvan talk about a different solution. The syrian kurds? Please. I appreciate their efforts, but they're not up to the task.

I have to disagree with you on that last part. The YPG and YPJ have been very successful in their fight against ISIS in Syria. Granted they can't do it alone but they are without a doubt solid allies.

[waywardgs]

I have to disagree with you on that last part. The YPG and YPJ have been very successful in their fight against ISIS in Syria. Granted they can't do it alone but they are without a doubt solid allies.

They're fighting a two front war. That's not easy for any military, let alone what amounts to a group of rebels. They've had successes, but isis needs more attention.

[Warriorbird]

You're right, WB. Obviously going out of our way to piss of an ally is a good thing. Why stop there? I'm sure Iran would love it if we broke all diplomatic and trade ties with the UK. I bet Iran would even really get serious about ISIS if we did so! Let's do it! We must defeat ISIS via Iran!

Outside of "Must protect Israel for the endtimes!" land that you inhabit with the conservative Christians Israel's fully capable of doing questionable stuff. A liberal President is not automatically obligated to do everything they want us to do, much like a conservative President would not be obligated to do everything that, say a socialist President of Mexico would want.

I understand this is shocking to you. You and a number of conservatives just want Obama to invade so you can then bitch about that. Thankfully not everybody feels that way.

[Androidpk]

They've had the biggest victory in this war so far. Kobane was a huge loss for ISIS.

[Tgo01]

I still have yet to hear you or jarvan talk about a different solution. The syrian kurds? Please. I appreciate their efforts, but they're not up to the task.

And Iran is up to the task? :/


A liberal President is not automatically obligated to do everything they want us to do

It's a good thing I never said that.

[Warriorbird]

It's a good thing I never said that.

But, wait for it, you had a temper tantrum in which you implied it.

[waywardgs]

And Iran is up to the task? :/



It's a good thing I never said that.

Iran has a huge military. Half of the supplies we drop for the kurds end up in Isis hands. Again- what do YOU propose?

[Tgo01]

But, wait for it, you had a temper tantrum in which you implied it.

Pretty sure I only implied what I said which was not that Obama should do whatever Israel wanted us to do.

Here. Just so we're on the same page let's see what my original post in this thread said:


When did it become "cool" for American politicians to openly snub and mock Israel? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/20/white-house-netanyahu-speech_n_6723898.html)



I really don't get it. I thought Israel was one of our closest allies. What are Obama and the Democrats hoping to accomplish from snubbing them like this?

Notice I never even implied that Obama should do whatever Israel wants him to do.


Iran has a huge military. Half of the supplies we drop for the birds end up in Isis hands. Again- what do YOU propose?

So does Syria. If the best we can come up with is to piss off Israel and get Iran to fight ISIS then we might as well just throw in the towel now.

[Warriorbird]

Pretty sure I only implied what I said which was not that Obama should do whatever Israel wanted us to do.

Here. Just so we're on the same page let's see what my original post in this thread said.

Oh, Tgo01. The very act of declaring this "openly snubbing and mocking Israel." is saying that Obama should do whatever Israel wants us to do.

Next come the spasmodic posts and now you're going to act like you didn't really mean it.

[Androidpk]

Tgo's proposal is to troll them to death.

[waywardgs]

Pretty sure I only implied what I said which was not that Obama should do whatever Israel wanted us to do.

Here. Just so we're on the same page let's see what my original post in this thread said:



Notice I never even implied that Obama should do whatever Israel wants him to do.



So does Syria. If the best we can come up with is to piss off Israel and get Iran to fight ISIS then we might as well just throw in the towel now.

Assad? He's busy killing everyone in his own country. I think he's up to about a quarter million. Great guy.

[Tgo01]

Oh, Tgo01. The very act of declaring this "openly snubbing and mocking Israel." is saying that Obama should do whatever Israel wants us to do.

Next come the spasmodic posts and now you're going to act like you didn't really mean it.

And you accuse me of not reading the story I linked. You really read that story and all you got was "Oh Obama just isn't giving into Israel's demands"? I have no need to claim I didn't mean what I said because I have always said what I meant. I'm used to you creating a caricature of myself and my arguments in your head because it's easier to argue against what you made up I said then to argue with what I really said, but this is weird even for you :/


Assad? He's busy killing everyone in his own country. I think he's up to about a quarter million. Great guy.

I didn't claim he was a great guy. I just said he had a large military too, complete with fighter jets and tanks and artillery. Last I heard the battle against ISIS is going swimmingly for him.

[waywardgs]

And you accuse me of not reading the story I linked. You really read that story and all you got was "Oh Obama just isn't giving into Israel's demands"? I have no need to claim I didn't mean what I said because I have always said what I meant. I'm used to you creating a caricature of myself and my arguments in your head because it's easier to argue against what you made up I said then to argue with what I really said, but this is weird even for you :/



I didn't claim he was a great guy. I just said he had a large military too, complete with fighter jets and tanks and artillery. Last I heard the battle against ISIS is going swimmingly for him.

So your plan is to stop supporting the rebels and help out Assad? Really?

[Tgo01]

So your plan is to stop supporting the rebels and help out Assad? Really?

Holy shit! I can't keep up with these straw men arguments! One at a time! Let me deal with WB's first then I'll see what I can do about dealing with yours.

http://blogs.herald.com/.a/6a00d83451587d69e2015431efc8f6970c-pi

The straw man army is coming!

[waywardgs]

Holy shit! I can't keep up with these straw men arguments! One at a time! Let me deal with WB's first then I'll see what I can do about dealing with yours.

http://blogs.herald.com/.a/6a00d83451587d69e2015431efc8f6970c-pi

The straw man army is coming!

Lol. I'm starting to wonder whether you have any idea what the hell is going on over there.

[Androidpk]

And you accuse me of not reading the story I linked. You really read that story and all you got was "Oh Obama just isn't giving into Israel's demands"? I have no need to claim I didn't mean what I said because I have always said what I meant. I'm used to you creating a caricature of myself and my arguments in your head because it's easier to argue against what you made up I said then to argue with what I really said, but this is weird even for you :/



I didn't claim he was a great guy. I just said he had a large military too, complete with fighter jets and tanks and artillery. Last I heard the battle against ISIS is going swimmingly for him.

Swimmingly? Their military is barely holding together. Their air force is in disarray.

[Androidpk]

Lol. I'm starting to wonder whether you have any idea what the hell is going on over there.

He doesn't.

[Tgo01]

Lol. I'm starting to wonder whether you have any idea what the hell is going on over there.


Swimmingly? Their military is barely holding together. Their air force is in disarray.

Yes, that was my point.

I questioned Iran's ability to deal with ISIS.
waywardgs' response was Iran can because they have a large military.
I said Syria also has(had?) a large military and sarcastically said they were doing great against ISIS to drive my point home.
This somehow led people to believe I was for supporting Syria in the fight against ISIS? :/

[Warriorbird]

And you accuse me of not reading the story I linked. You really read that story and all you got was "Oh Obama just isn't giving into Israel's demands"? I have no need to claim I didn't mean what I said because I have always said what I meant. I'm used to you creating a caricature of myself and my arguments in your head because it's easier to argue against what you made up I said then to argue with what I really said, but this is weird even for you :/


Sort of like you caricatured Obama and his arguments? Let's give you a refresher course.

1. To begin with this is an "ally" coming here to undercut American policy.
2. This is a visit planned not with the Whitehouse, but with Congressional Republicans.
3. Netanyahu's leaked details in an attempt to disrupt American diplomacy.

There's maybe a few things in there that you wanted to gloss over and not pay attention to in the course of "Obama should do whatever Israel wants us to do." like characterizing all three of those things as "Obama being a baby."

I guess you mainly wanted to pretend that stuff didn't exist.

[waywardgs]

Ok... So what would you do? I've asked like forty thousand times. One more time oughta do it! (I'm a hopeless optimist.)

[Androidpk]

Yes, that was my point.

I questioned Iran's ability to deal with ISIS.
waywardgs' response was Iran can because they have a large military.
I said Syria also has(had?) a large military and sarcastically said they were doing great against ISIS to drive my point home.
This somehow led people to believe I was for supporting Syria in the fight against ISIS? :/


http://i.imgur.com/8dZZTx6.gif

[Warriorbird]

Ok... So what would you do? I've asked like forty thousand times. One more time oughta do it! (I'm a hopeless optimist.)

He's never gonna answer. Party of No up in heee-yah.

[Tgo01]

Ok... So what would you do? I've asked like forty thousand times. One more time oughta do it! (I'm a hopeless optimist.)

I don't have all the answers. I'm just questioning if this is the best course of action and so far it seems everyone's answer boils down to "it's better than nothing."

Not sure I agree with that assessment.

[Androidpk]

I don't have all the answers. I'm just questioning if this is the best course of action and so far it seems everyone's answer boils down to "it's better than nothing."

Not sure I agree with that assessment.

And your only reason against it is because it offends some politicians in Israel.

[Tgo01]

And your only reason against it is because it offends some politicians in Israel.

And your only reason for supporting pissing off our ally is because...it's better than nothing?

[Androidpk]

And your only reason for supporting pissing off our ally is because...it's better than nothing?

I already answered why.

[Astray]

http://i.imgur.com/2Fa8P.gif

[Jarvan]

Right, he was only joking. Totally not a hawk.

So you are saying that politicians don't make jokes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iikaqAsCKno

I guess it doesn't mater tho, cause you will just say it's what McCain REALLY thought. Seeing as your inside his mind.... AND you pick and choose which parts to play. (Well, someone did)

[Jarvan]

It's about opening relations with Iran. Starting a dialogue, defrosting the relationship, whatever you want to call it. I'm sorry Israel is gonna get butthurt, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. We've got bigger fish to fry than the emotional stability of a country who's existence we basically fund. They'll be ok, I promise. Our fucking stupid war in iraq created a terrorist state. We now have to deal with that somehow. I still have yet to hear you or jarvan talk about a different solution. The syrian kurds? Please. I appreciate their efforts, but they're not up to the task.

Sorry, I was sleeping. I'll answer your question, and throw one back at you.

First.. our leaving Iraq when we did, and not helping Syria when we could have, helped influence the creation of a Terrorist state. It's always funny when people say how stupid the war in Iraq was. There may not have been WMD's, tho with recent news that is debatable, specially since some keep moving the WMD goal post. (I meant nukes, there had to have been nukes, sarin gas missiles don't count cause they can only kill hundreds of thousands of people) but there was still an evil dictator whose people were crying out for freedom. Of course.. Maybe YOU and the Dems would prefer Suddam still in power. Frankly, I say good riddance.

How to deal with ISIS. There are only 4 options as far as I can see. 1)We get our allies in the area to deal with them. 2)We get Iran to deal with them. 3)We deal with them ourselves. 4)We say fuck it and ignore it.

Seems to me that Obama's strategy to a degree has been all 4.

1 is really the best choice in a way. Problem is.. just like you, most of the countries over there don't care till it's their ass on the line. Yeah yeah.. they may do some airstrikes, but they don't want to put their people in harm's way. It's not like ISIS is in THEIR country. The Kurds are a good force, and likely would be willing to really help. Except for the fact that there is little in it for them. If we really got behind the kurds and they defeated ISIS, they would still be in the super minority of their country.. they want their own country, but unless we are willing to carve up Iraq, it won't happen. The really really sad part? Most Iraqies don't think of themselves as Iraqies, they think of themselves as Suuni, Shiite and Kurd.

2 is not so good for a number of reasons. Once again.. does anyone seriously think IRAN will spend tens of millions, if not billions fighting ISIS, then just up and walk away? Ok, we defeated them in Iraq and Syria.. here are your countries back.

3 you don't like because you don't want us to put our troops in harm's way again. Yeah, it's not a great idea most of the time, and it's a hard choice. But out of all the militaries in the world, who do you think is most capable of dealing with a threat of this nature? It's a shitty option to a degree.. but frankly the only way to stabilize the region is to create a state that can survive on it's own. Right now, that leaves two options. Iran, or Iraq. Which would YOU prefer to be the region super power?

4 is what I think a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum really wish we could do. Just say, "Fuck it, let's leave them alone since they hate it when we interfere". Sadly... it won't work. ~WE~ and that's the world we, not a US we, has interfered in their area once, that is all it took. Doesn't matter what we do at this point, some of the people there will hate us till they or we die.

4 will likely create the same place as 2, 1 would be optimal, but it would take Saudi Arabia to really get on board. They are more worried about themselves, then stopping ISIS.

3 is the most likely to end the conflict in a reasonable time, and keep Iraq out of Iran's hands. But it's also the one with the most push back because we don't want any more of our people to die.

Specifically why it is bad to let Iran deal with ISIS... it gives Iran control of Iraq and Syria. Would YOU like to see Iran, Iraq, and Syria all under the power of Iran? Wait... maybe you would.

Now to my question to you.

What good is a nuclear Iran in the region. Because that's what Obama is giving them really. What good is snubbing our greatest ally in the area so we can appease one of our greatest enemies. And yes, Iran is an enemy. I wouldn't call someone who trained and armed militants to kill our soldiers, a friend.

The lesser of two evils is doing it ourselves.

[Parkbandit]

Did you have anything useful to add?

Nevermind. Thinking you might DOES make me a moron.

Here, I'll help you out so we can get it out of the way a little quicker this time… "You're a homeless retarded gay bla bla bla my insulation company bla bla bla kegerator bla bla bla you're a useless idiot bla bla bla."

Irony x 100

[Parkbandit]

You forgot the, "my life is wonderful and yours sucks!" part.

I spend less that 80% of my life on the Internet in the bedroom someone let's me use while I complain that I can't find a job that I like or get paid well... so in our case, it's 100% accurate.

[Parkbandit]

Where does that get is exactly? No one has yet to actually respond to the question I keep asking. Why is it bad to encourage Iran to fight our battle with Isis for us?

"because it hurts irael's feelings" isn't a good answer. fyi.

....

Jesus....

To address your "point" though.. no one has made the counter argument you are making.

My personal feelings: We should actually start bombing them. Not this pussy footing bullshit we're currently doing, I mean bomb the shit out of them.

[Parkbandit]

Israel's been treating Obama badly for a long time. This isn't new.

It's funny, because you honestly believe it's Israel's fault about the frosty relations.

[Parkbandit]

It's a good thing I never said that.

That's never stopped WB from saying you have or will someday... he's a mind reader.

[Androidpk]

Sorry, I was sleeping. I'll answer your question, and throw one back at you.

First.. our leaving Iraq when we did, and not helping Syria when we could have, helped influence the creation of a Terrorist state. It's always funny when people say how stupid the war in Iraq was. There may not have been WMD's, tho with recent news that is debatable, specially since some keep moving the WMD goal post. (I meant nukes, there had to have been nukes, sarin gas missiles don't count cause they can only kill hundreds of thousands of people) but there was still an evil dictator whose people were crying out for freedom. Of course.. Maybe YOU and the Dems would prefer Suddam still in power. Frankly, I say good riddance.

How to deal with ISIS. There are only 4 options as far as I can see. 1)We get our allies in the area to deal with them. 2)We get Iran to deal with them. 3)We deal with them ourselves. 4)We say fuck it and ignore it.

Seems to me that Obama's strategy to a degree has been all 4.

1 is really the best choice in a way. Problem is.. just like you, most of the countries over there don't care till it's their ass on the line. Yeah yeah.. they may do some airstrikes, but they don't want to put their people in harm's way. It's not like ISIS is in THEIR country. The Kurds are a good force, and likely would be willing to really help. Except for the fact that there is little in it for them. If we really got behind the kurds and they defeated ISIS, they would still be in the super minority of their country.. they want their own country, but unless we are willing to carve up Iraq, it won't happen. The really really sad part? Most Iraqies don't think of themselves as Iraqies, they think of themselves as Suuni, Shiite and Kurd.

2 is not so good for a number of reasons. Once again.. does anyone seriously think IRAN will spend tens of millions, if not billions fighting ISIS, then just up and walk away? Ok, we defeated them in Iraq and Syria.. here are your countries back.

3 you don't like because you don't want us to put our troops in harm's way again. Yeah, it's not a great idea most of the time, and it's a hard choice. But out of all the militaries in the world, who do you think is most capable of dealing with a threat of this nature? It's a shitty option to a degree.. but frankly the only way to stabilize the region is to create a state that can survive on it's own. Right now, that leaves two options. Iran, or Iraq. Which would YOU prefer to be the region super power?

4 is what I think a lot of people on both sides of the political spectrum really wish we could do. Just say, "Fuck it, let's leave them alone since they hate it when we interfere". Sadly... it won't work. ~WE~ and that's the world we, not a US we, has interfered in their area once, that is all it took. Doesn't matter what we do at this point, some of the people there will hate us till they or we die.

4 will likely create the same place as 2, 1 would be optimal, but it would take Saudi Arabia to really get on board. They are more worried about themselves, then stopping ISIS.

3 is the most likely to end the conflict in a reasonable time, and keep Iraq out of Iran's hands. But it's also the one with the most push back because we don't want any more of our people to die.

Specifically why it is bad to let Iran deal with ISIS... it gives Iran control of Iraq and Syria. Would YOU like to see Iran, Iraq, and Syria all under the power of Iran? Wait... maybe you would.

Now to my question to you.

What good is a nuclear Iran in the region. Because that's what Obama is giving them really. What good is snubbing our greatest ally in the area so we can appease one of our greatest enemies. And yes, Iran is an enemy. I wouldn't call someone who trained and armed militants to kill our soldiers, a friend.

The lesser of two evils is doing it ourselves.

Pure fucking gold, especially that first bit. Sure thousands of Americans may have been killed, a trillion dollars wasted, and the region thrust into total chaos.. but we killed a bad guy!

[Androidpk]

I spend less that 80% of my life on the Internet in the bedroom someone let's me use while I complain that I can't find a job that I like or get paid well... so in our case, it's 100% accurate.

Oh I'm sure. That's why you lead with the most posts here by like 10,000. Irony indeed.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/105/fat_man.jpg

[Parkbandit]

Oh I'm sure. That's why you lead with the most posts here by like 10,000. Irony indeed.



Simple math for a simpleton like you:

January 2003 to today = about 4430 days.

38604/4430 = 9 posts per day.

Granted, it probably takes you hours to do that, in my case, 9 posts can be done in a matter of minutes.

Minutes per day = less time than 80% of the day.

Dude, you have nothing to stand on. You're far better off pretending we don't know what a creepy predator you are.

[Androidpk]

Simple math for a simpleton like you:

January 2003 to today = about 4430 days.

38604/4430 = 9 posts per day.

Granted, it probably takes you hours to do that, in my case, 9 posts can be done in a matter of minutes.

Minutes per day = less time than 80% of the day.

Dude, you have nothing to stand on. You're far better off pretending we don't know what a creepy predator you are.

Dance, puppet.

[Taernath]

Dance, puppet.

https://nancydrewjourney.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/ndtcotdpbkcvr.jpg

[Androidpk]

https://nancydrewjourney.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/ndtcotdpbkcvr.jpg


Is that Drizzsdt in the background??

[Parkbandit]

Is that Drizzsdt in the background??

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Ben-Wyatt-I-Dont-Get-It-At-All.gif

[Warriorbird]

It's funny, because you honestly believe it's Israel's fault about the frosty relations.

So you don't think politics has anything to do with it? Riiight.

[Parkbandit]

So you don't think politics has anything to do with it? Riiight.

What? Where did I say politics didn't have anything to do with it? It's two countries regarding their government. It's ALL about politics.

I'm just amused by you honestly believing it's Israel's fault for starting this "fight".

[Warriorbird]

What? Where did I say politics didn't have anything to do with it? It's two countries regarding their government. It's ALL about politics.

I'm just amused by you honestly believing it's Israel's fault for starting this "fight".

Partisan politics. Yet it's "Obama's fault." Riight.

[Parkbandit]

Partisan politics. Yet it's "Obama's fault." Riight.

You are on a roll today!

Let's play a little game.. you post examples of things Netanyahu says that you believe led to the strained relations with the Obama Administration... and I'll post examples of things Obama has said that led to strained relations with Israel.

You go first.

[Warriorbird]

You are on a roll today!

Let's play a little game.. you post examples of things Netanyahu says that you believe led to the strained relations with the Obama Administration... and I'll post examples of things Obama has said that led to strained relations with Israel.

You go first.

Well gosh. Obviously you're now back to claiming that it's somehow "Obama's fault" and not partisan politics. You really convinced me. I especially like how this trip was organized by Congressional Republicans.

[Parkbandit]

Well gosh. Obviously you're now back to claiming that it's somehow "Obama's fault" and not partisan politics. You really convinced me. I especially like how this trip was organized by Congressional Republicans.

As my father used to say "It takes two to tango".. I don't think it's Obama's fault.. but he certainly exasperated the situation by some of his rhetoric.

[Methais]

So Obama has reduced the office of POTUS to that of a little child throwing a tantrum?

Where have you been for the past 6 years?

[Jarvan]

Pure fucking gold, especially that first bit. Sure thousands of Americans may have been killed, a trillion dollars wasted, and the region thrust into total chaos.. but we killed a bad guy!

The region is only in chaos because we left to soon, and we never did anything to help Syria. ISIS started in Syria after the civil war, they didn't come to Iraq till after our troops left. If our troops hadn't left, do you think ISIS and their 10k fighters (at the time) would have taken any land in Iraq?

Since you love questions... What should we have done about Iraq and Suddam?

[Warriorbird]

The region is only in chaos because we left to soon, and we never did anything to help Syria. ISIS started in Syria after the civil war, they didn't come to Iraq till after our troops left. If our troops hadn't left, do you think ISIS and their 10k fighters (at the time) would have taken any land in Iraq?

Since you love questions... What should we have done about Iraq and Suddam?

Priceless.

[Parkbandit]

Priceless.

How so?

[Jarvan]

Priceless.

Are you implying that if we had kept say.. 20-30k troops there, ISIS would have invaded and taken over half of Iraq anyway?

Or are you referring to the instability in Syria... or the stuff that happened in Egypt? Maybe you can figure a way to blame those two on us and Bush, but I don't think most people could.

[Jarvan]

How so?

It's the.. "I can't really find a fault in what you said so I will say something stupid and hope it sounds good".

[Warriorbird]

Are you implying that if we had kept say.. 20-30k troops there, ISIS would have invaded and taken over half of Iraq anyway?

Or are you referring to the instability in Syria... or the stuff that happened in Egypt? Maybe you can figure a way to blame those two on us and Bush, but I don't think most people could.

It's just more "let's have it both ways!" foreign policy nonsense from a conservative. If Obama still had troops there you'd whine about it. You're just gonna whine regardless.

[Parkbandit]

It's just more "let's have it both ways!" foreign policy nonsense from a conservative. If Obama still had troops there you'd whine about it. You're just gonna whine regardless.

WB knows what people would have said on various timelines.

Jesus...

[Warriorbird]

WB knows what people would have said on various timelines.

Jesus...

When all you do is whine about Obama it's not very difficult.

[Parkbandit]

When all you do is whine about Obama it's not very difficult.

All I do?

We need to raise the WB ALert Level to Yellow. Hyperbole + stupidity.

Stick to just creating people's viewpoints for them. That's Green... or normal.

[Androidpk]

Sounds like Jarvan favors Desert Storm 3. Wonder if he's not going to enlist again.

[Warriorbird]

All I do?

We need to raise the WB ALert Level to Yellow. Hyperbole + stupidity.

Stick to just creating people's viewpoints for them. That's Green... or normal.

Hyperbole? You and Jarvan are doing it right now. It'd be real funny to run a regression on who writes Obama most on this board.

[Parkbandit]

Hyperbole?

You do realize what "hyperbole" means, right?

I even pointed out where you went wrong.. with the "All you do" line.


You and Jarvan are doing it right now.

Actually, I am correcting your stupidity in stating it's all Israel's fault.


It'd be real funny to run a regression on who writes Obama most on this board.

That would prove it! I don't think you understand what running a regression means.

[Wrathbringer]

Hyperbole? You and Jarvan are doing it right now. It'd be real funny to run a regression on who writes Obama most on this board.

My money is on tgo.

[Androidpk]

Did you have anything useful to add?

Nevermind. Thinking you might DOES make me a moron.

Here, I'll help you out so we can get it out of the way a little quicker this time… "You're a homeless retarded gay bla bla bla my insulation company bla bla bla kegerator bla bla bla you're a useless idiot bla bla bla."


Spot on.

[Warriorbird]

My money is on tgo.

It's quite possible. Parkbandit's got more endurance and dedication though.

[Tisket]

It's quite possible. Parkbandit's got more endurance and dedication though.

And you are just as dedicated and determined to defend Obama. Don't you ever weary of defending the indefensible?

[Androidpk]

It's quite possible. Parkbandit's got more endurance and dedication though.

He also has 20,000 more posts than tgo.

[Tisket]

Because of his sig, PB is currently the only poster who I recognize immediately without avatars turned on.

Leave him alone!

[Androidpk]

Because of his sig, PB is currently the only poster who I recognize immediately without avatars turned on.

Leave him alone!

5 more days!

[Warriorbird]

And you are just as dedicated and determined to defend Obama. Don't you ever weary of defending the indefensible?

Psh. I freely bash Obama related to privacy, education, and the sheer stupidity of destroying his own mandate by negotiating with people who would never ever have good faith. He had an opportunity to make an excellent healthcare plan and he didn't take it.

I credited Bush when he tried to do good on immigration.

I don't go after members of a party no matter where they fall on a particular issue.


He also has 20,000 more posts than tgo.

It does tend to raise Obama counts.

[Jarvan]

It's just more "let's have it both ways!" foreign policy nonsense from a conservative. If Obama still had troops there you'd whine about it. You're just gonna whine regardless.

Not really. I have said Obama did a good job when I agreed with things he did.

There have been times I have even posted saying it.

I didn't really post here when Bush was around, but he did a lot I didn't like either.

Both Bush and Obama are responsible for our leaving of Iraq. And as Pk says it.. Desert Storm 3. Does anyone really think the ISIS problem can or will be resolved without US troops?

[Androidpk]

Will you be joining the military to go fight ISIS, jarvan? Or are you content with letting others die in your place?

[Androidpk]

So apparently a ton of new secret cables are being released and one in particular talks about how Mossad (Israels intelligence agency) told allies that they came to the conclusion that Iran is not trying to make nuclear weapons. Despite that Netanyahu is still crying out wolf.

[Tisket]

Will you be joining the military to go fight ISIS, jarvan? Or are you content with letting others die in your place?

Don't be retarded. Or are you actually espousing that only people in the military can hold an opinion about the necessity of military action?

[Androidpk]

Don't be retarded. Or are you actually espousing that only people in the military can hold an opinion about the necessity of military action?

I'm just wondering if he's willing to put his money where his mouth is. It's easy to clamor for war when you don't have to fight it.

[JackWhisper]

I'm just wondering if he's willing to put his money where his mouth is. It's easy to clamor for war when you don't have to fight it.

The stupid in here just went to eleven.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o

[Wrathbringer]

The stupid in here just went to eleven.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o

Why? Because you arrived?

[Androidpk]

Why? Because you arrived?


^

[Tisket]

I'm just wondering if he's willing to put his money where his mouth is. It's easy to clamor for war when you don't have to fight it.

I was googling for something entirely unrelated a few weeks ago and I found the text to a speech given over 30 years ago by the Defense Secretary of the time, Caspar Weinberger. It's long but really a good read: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/military/force/weinberger.html

Not sharing the link as an argument for or against anything, just doing so because it's a great read.

[Parkbandit]

Psh. I freely bash Obama related to privacy, education, and the sheer stupidity of destroying his own mandate by negotiating with people who would never ever have good faith. He had an opportunity to make an excellent healthcare plan and he didn't take it.

I credited Bush when he tried to do good on immigration.

I don't go after members of a party no matter where they fall on a particular issue.


We need a category for fiction on this message board.

[Jarvan]

Will you be joining the military to go fight ISIS, jarvan? Or are you content with letting others die in your place?

I actually joined the Army in 2000. After 3 months I was medically discharged because of my heart. I didn't want to leave, I was made to leave.

How about you, have you ever joined?

Also, being 39, even if I wanted to I do not believe I meet the age requirements anymore.

[Tgo01]

Will you be joining the military to go fight ISIS, jarvan? Or are you content with letting others die in your place?

You = stupid.


So apparently a ton of new secret cables are being released and one in particular talks about how Mossad (Israels intelligence agency) told allies that they came to the conclusion that Iran is not trying to make nuclear weapons. Despite that Netanyahu is still crying out wolf.

This is what I found on the subject:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/23/leaked-spy-cables-netanyahu-iran-bomb-mossad


Behind the scenes, Mossad took a different view. In a report shared with South African spies on 22 October 2012 – but likely written earlier – it conceded that Iran was “working to close gaps in areas that appear legitimate, such as enrichment reactors, which will reduce the time required to produce weapons from the time the instruction is actually given”.

But the report also states that Iran “does not appear to be ready” to enrich uranium to the higher levels necessary for nuclear weapons. To build a bomb requires enrichment to 90%. Mossad estimated that Iran then had “about 100kg of material enriched to 20%” (which was later diluted or converted under the terms of the 2013 Geneva agreement). Iran has always said it is developing a nuclear programme for civilian energy purposes.

It doesn't say Mossad came to the conclusion that Iran is not trying to make nuclear weapons; it even says what they are currently working on would make it easier for them to produce nuclear weapons in the future.

The only thing you could say Mossad and Netanyahu disagreed on was how close Iran was to building a nuclear weapon. It also states it doesn't know exactly when Mossad arrived to that conclusion in relation to Netanyahu's statements regarding when Iran would have a bomb.

This is the problem with relying on news sources to tell you what to think, pk. I hope you learned something in this thread.

[Parkbandit]

So apparently a ton of new secret cables are being released and one in particular talks about how Mossad (Israels intelligence agency) told allies that they came to the conclusion that Iran is not trying to make nuclear weapons. Despite that Netanyahu is still crying out wolf.

What are all the nuclear centrifuges for?

[Jarvan]

You = stupid.



This is what I found on the subject:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/23/leaked-spy-cables-netanyahu-iran-bomb-mossad



It doesn't say Mossad came to the conclusion that Iran is not trying to make nuclear weapons; it even says what they are currently working on would make it easier for them to produce nuclear weapons in the future.

The only thing you could say Mossad and Netanyahu disagreed on was how close Iran was to building a nuclear weapon. It also states it doesn't know exactly when Mossad arrived to that conclusion in relation to Netanyahu's statements regarding when Iran would have a bomb.

This is the problem with relying on news sources to tell you what to think, pk. I hope you learned something in this thread.

I seriously doubt PK has learned anything.

[Jarvan]

What are all the nuclear centrifuges for?

The funny part... we offered them a deal where we would lift sanctions, if they just got their nuclear material per-enriched from Russia, and dismantled their facilities.

They said no. There is only two reasons to enrich your own. Self sufficiency and to make weapons.

Guess which one is more likely.

[Androidpk]

I actually joined the Army in 2000. After 3 months I was medically discharged because of my heart. I didn't want to leave, I was made to leave.

How about you, have you ever joined?

Also, being 39, even if I wanted to I do not believe I meet the age requirements anymore.

Yes, I did join. Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom.

[Androidpk]

You = stupid.



This is what I found on the subject:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/23/leaked-spy-cables-netanyahu-iran-bomb-mossad



It doesn't say Mossad came to the conclusion that Iran is not trying to make nuclear weapons; it even says what they are currently working on would make it easier for them to produce nuclear weapons in the future.

The only thing you could say Mossad and Netanyahu disagreed on was how close Iran was to building a nuclear weapon. It also states it doesn't know exactly when Mossad arrived to that conclusion in relation to Netanyahu's statements regarding when Iran would have a bomb.

This is the problem with relying on news sources to tell you what to think, pk. I hope you learned something in this thread.

Irony.

[Tgo01]

Irony.

Irony? You mean how I read a news article and arrived at my own conclusion yet you disagreed with my conclusion based on the fact that the article never specifically used the words I did?

The ironic part is you calling my post ironic, right?

Also nice job on deflecting there ;)

[Androidpk]

It was you calling someone else stupid.

[Jarvan]

Yes, I did join. Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom.

Well, at least we know the answer to TGO's question. You are not capable of learning, since you obviously never learned Honor while in the Military.

[Tgo01]

It was you calling someone else stupid.

Tell us again how the leaked cables said Mossad came to the conclusion that Iran was not trying to make nuclear weapons.