Alright you whiners

[Tgo01]

Had a chat with a GM tonight who very politely asked me if I would consider removing the greeting part of my scripts. It wasn't a demand on the GM's part; more of a polite request.

Just wanted to let you all know the number of compliments I have received for this part of my script far outweighed the complaints I have received so once again the whiners get their way.

Whine away little children, whine away! Maybe if you keep up with the whining you can drive away all customers you don't like. Just think of it! Your very own GS echo chamber :O

[Gelston]

Awwwww. No AFK RP!

[Tgo01]

Awwwww. No AFK RP!

Nope :(

[Fallen]

Weird. I wonder who bitched.

[waywardgs]

Snitches get stitches.

[Allereli]

Weird. I wonder who bitched.

someone who hunts in that area and tried to interact with him and got a whole bunch of stock nonsense responses I imagine.

[Tgo01]

someone who hunts in that area and tried to interact with him and got a whole bunch of stock nonsense responses I imagine.

That would be quite impossible since I haven't yet setup my reactive script yet so any stock nonsense response they would have gotten would have been from me.

[Dhuul2]

That thread on the officials was ridiculous. Why did they let it go on so long?

[Tenlaar]

someone who hunts in that area and tried to interact with him and got a whole bunch of stock nonsense responses I imagine.

More likely somebody who, like you, makes a lot of false assumptions.

[Tgo01]

That thread on the officials was ridiculous. Why did they let it go on so long?

If I had to wager a guess it's because Solomon was encouraging the conversation to continue.

[Wrathbringer]

Had a chat with a GM tonight who very politely asked me if I would consider removing the greeting part of my scripts. It wasn't a demand on the GM's part; more of a polite request.

Just wanted to let you all know the number of compliments I have received for this part of my script far outweighed the complaints I have received so once again the whiners get their way.

Whine away little children, whine away! Maybe if you keep up with the whining you can drive away all customers you don't like. Just think of it! Your very own GS echo chamber :O

I consider this a win. Thank you for realizing that your behavior in game is retarded and making the change.

[Taernath]

How far along did you get in your script? Can you still RP with it? I was going to reactivate for it. :(

[Viekn]

Had a chat with a GM tonight who very politely asked me if I would consider removing the greeting part of my scripts. It wasn't a demand on the GM's part; more of a polite request.

Just wanted to let you all know the number of compliments I have received for this part of my script far outweighed the complaints I have received so once again the whiners get their way.

Whine away little children, whine away! Maybe if you keep up with the whining you can drive away all customers you don't like. Just think of it! Your very own GS echo chamber :O

Would you mind posting what the script said?

[Allereli]

More likely somebody who, like you, makes a lot of false assumptions.

nope, wasn't me.


That would be quite impossible since I haven't yet setup my reactive script yet so any stock nonsense response they would have gotten would have been from me.

so the script would walk in, say some random shit, and move on while people were trying to respond? that's even worse.

[Hightower]

There's no point in arguing about it, Allereli. His self-righteous victimhood overrides all logic. He honestly believes he added these lines to his script in order to appease the folks who were reporting him for non-interaction and he doesn't understand why taking his petty grievance with them into the game is obnoxious.

Frankly, tgo, I wish you'd just shut the fuck up already and go back to quietly scripting. You bring your problems with GMs and other players on yourself with your behavior.

~Taverkin

[ThatDamnTep]

There's no point in arguing about it, Allereli. His self-righteous victimhood overrides all logic. He honestly believes he added these lines to his script in order to appease the folks who were reporting him for non-interaction and he doesn't understand why taking his petty grievance with them into the game is obnoxious.

Frankly, tgo, I wish you'd just shut the fuck up already and go back to quietly scripting. You bring your problems with GMs and other players on yourself with your behavior.

~Taverkin

Aren't you the one who brought it up in the first fucking place? He made some adjustments in an attempt to appease some people and got some interaction out of it. Seems like a net win to me. One of my characters is in an area with one of his and you know what, he got me. I was interested enough to strike up some conversation because of it. The honest truth is that in the last five weeks that I've been back I've had more in game intereaction with Tgo01's character because of his script than with anyone else.

[Kithus]

If I had to wager a guess it's because Solomon was encouraging the conversation to continue.

This is likely exactly why it continued as long as it did. What was Aulis or any of the board mods supposed to do in this case, remove his posts? That thread was a train wreck on both sides. I think less of both Solomon and TG after reading it.

[Sorcasaurus]

This is likely exactly why it continued as long as it did. What was Aulis or any of the board mods supposed to do in this case, remove his posts? That thread was a train wreck on both sides. I think less of both Solomon and TG after reading it.

They could have gone this route:
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/64/64d0d40114ca8f3947fd6f2166ff8d8751e6c8fa5a5149eb7f 6be7b015fc33c0.jpg

[caelric]

This is likely exactly why it continued as long as it did. What was Aulis or any of the board mods supposed to do in this case, remove his posts? That thread was a train wreck on both sides. I think less of both Solomon and TG after reading it.

I honestly can't comprehend how it would be possible to think any less of Solomon. I mean, how could anyone think any good of him at all at this point is beyond me.

[Androidpk]

I wouldn't be surprised if no player complained and it was just someone at Simu reading these boards.

[Methais]

They could have gone this route:
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/64/64d0d40114ca8f3947fd6f2166ff8d8751e6c8fa5a5149eb7f 6be7b015fc33c0.jpg

The Biff-800. Nice.

Tgo your should have asked him if they were receiving complaints.

I suggest we flood them with roleplay nominates.

[Tgo01]

I consider this a win. Thank you for realizing that your behavior in game is retarded and making the change.

This coming from the guy who whined that people didn't interact with one another more...


How far along did you get in your script? Can you still RP with it? I was going to reactivate for it. :(

I'm still working on my roleplaying script and my script that responds to verbs and messages towards your character :p

This was a different script that would say a random phrase or a random verb towards another person when my character passed them while hunting.


Would you mind posting what the script said?

"bow", "salute", "greet", "act Rolls Pins all over the place.", "say ::#{player_name} Careful out there, I think the critters are swarming.", "act clutches his leg before wandering off, muttering something about taking an arrow to the knee.", "say ::#{player_name} Careful, adventurer!", "whistle", "whisper #{player_name} It's dangerous to go alone! Take this.", "act drops to the ground, rolls forward, then jumps to his feet before moving out of sight.", "act mutters something about only finding smooth stones lately.", "act stops for a moment to clean the blood off his weapon.", "act glances down at his feet before moving on, apparently worried about tripping over something.", "say ::#{player_name} I hope your hunt goes well, friend.", "say ::#{player_name} Things are not as they seem tonight.", "say ::#{player_name} May Andelas lend you strength in your battles.", "say ::#{player_name} Please do not anger Charl tonight, my clothes cannot withstand another storm.", "say ::#{player_name} I hope Lumnis imparts much wisdom upon you tonight.", "say ::#{player_name} So Cholen and a halfing walk into a bar...", "say ::#{player_name} Eonak will see you to victory!", "say ::#{player_name} Stay safe and may Imaera watch over you.", "say ::#{player_name} Kai grants you strength today.", "wave"


so the script would walk in, say some random shit, and move on while people were trying to respond? that's even worse.

You have no idea what was even going on yet you knew you hated it because it was me. You sure sound reasonable.


There's no point in arguing about it, Allereli. His self-righteous victimhood overrides all logic.

Talk about irony! My goodness. I think my characters have said a total of 10 things to you over the course of the past week or so and the first thing you do is rush to the official forums to whine about me "making a mockery" of the game? And you say I'm acting like a victim? Perhaps my script gave my characters a life of their own and I didn't realize it; where exactly did my characters touch you?


He honestly believes he added these lines to his script in order to appease the folks who were reporting him for non-interaction

I don't give a shit about people who report me. I put them in the script to appease people who whined that scripters rush through an area like a zombie without even acknowledging other players.


and he doesn't understand why taking his petty grievance with them into the game is obnoxious.

Uh? You really think I did this to annoy the people who were bothered by scripters not acknowledging their presence in a hunting area? If that was the case wouldn't I have had my characters do the exact same verb over and over again each and every time I passed someone in a hunting area?


Frankly, tgo, I wish you'd just shut the fuck up already and go back to quietly scripting. You bring your problems with GMs and other players on yourself with your behavior.

I was "quietly scripting.' You are the one who brought this up because my characters dared to say something nice to your character. Believe me. Lesson learned :p


This is likely exactly why it continued as long as it did. What was Aulis or any of the board mods supposed to do in this case, remove his posts? That thread was a train wreck on both sides. I think less of both Solomon and TG after reading it.

Hey you take that back!

[Kithus]

I honestly can't comprehend how it would be possible to think any less of Solomon. I mean, how could anyone think any good of him at all at this point is beyond me.

http://watchplayread.com/wpr-interview-with-eric-latham-producer-for-gemstone-iv/

That's how bud. He obviously is a gamer and cares about the game. Does he always make the best choices? Nope but I don't think he deliberately fucks it up either. He made Wyrom APM so can we give him credit for that at least?

[Tenlaar]

I really enjoy how the people railing against TG can't even keep basic facts straight, like how he isn't one of the people who has been getting script checked all the time.

[Allereli]

You have no idea what was even going on yet you knew you hated it because it was me. You sure sound reasonable.

some of the messaging was shared on LNET, it was really dumb, it wasn't funny, you're not funny, and I'm not the one who complained about you, and I never reported you. It doesn't matter really since you won't send those emails after multiple requests, you're really pushing the HMC line.

[Androidpk]

I really enjoy how the people railing against TG can't even keep basic facts straight, like how he isn't one of the people who has been getting script checked all the time.

I can't take you serious since you still have a broken link image for an avatar.

[Tgo01]

http://watchplayread.com/wpr-interview-with-eric-latham-producer-for-gemstone-iv/


As I mentioned before, the absolute, hands down, time-proven, best way we get new players is by word of mouth. We’ve tried just about every advertising option available over the course of the past two decades and the fact of the matter is, none of them are cost effective. The amount it costs to buy the ad or expose the link is overwhelmingly higher than the revenue generated by the folks who sign up. For example, if we spent $10k on an ad for GemStone, we’d need roughly 650 folks to sign up for at least one month just to break even and from experience, that’s just not something that happens. I’d love to be back in a situation like we were in when we were featured on AOL and had thousands of new players giving the game a shot per month, but even the concept of something like AOL is a thing of the past. Now even though we have no plans for a Superbowl commercial or a full-page spread in USA Today, we’re certainly getting new players and we’re also regularly getting old players coming back so it’s not like we’re going anywhere any time soon! We’re also always looking for new ways to get the word out. One of my current projects is to look into implementing the capability of sending out “highlights” of your character’s accomplishments through social media outlets like Twitter or Facebook. Finding new ways for our community to get the word out is always something I’m thinking about.

So the guy basically admits they don't have an advertising budget and they rely on current players to bring in new players and bring back old players.

[Tgo01]

Tgo your should have asked him if they were receiving complaints.

He claims they were but he used the word "jarred" which is the word someone on the officials used to describe this. Makes me wonder if it was just one complaint, if Simu (Solomon) made the decision based on the thread or if people read the thread and just started reporting me even though they had no idea what was going on.


I really enjoy how the people railing against TG can't even keep basic facts straight, like how he isn't one of the people who has been getting script checked all the time.

Yup. Once again they are lumping all scripters into the same guy.


some of the messaging was shared on LNET, it was really dumb, it wasn't funny, you're not funny

Well heck, I've gotten some private messages and some rep comments stating they thought some of the comments were funny. How about that, funny is subjective.

I also like how apparently people have talked about this script several times on lnet...almost as if the purpose of my script was successful yet people still felt the need to whine and complain because they "didn't think it was funny."


It doesn't matter really since you won't send those emails after multiple requests, you're really pushing the HMC line.

Well that would just prove all sorts of shit if they are going to ban me for being HMC because I won't send over those emails.

[gs4-PauperSid]

I've received the fly-by "act Rolls pins all over the place", "careful out there, critters are swarming!" and " It's dangerous to go it alone! Take this! (casts silveries on me).

I can say, it was amusing and jarring. But I just accept that character is scripting the hell outta things for necrojuice. I've seen him die often enough that the script must not be perfect (else that's when he's *not* scripting? Hrmmm....) I've even been occasionally rescued, unstunned etc in the past so its not necessarily pure afk scripting. That said, I can unequivocally say I didn't whine to gm's, officials, etc.

All my characters are roughly the same age, and spread out amongst the towns, so I progress rather slowly through various hunting areas spending time on each of them. I figure he'll age out of areas where I hunt rather quickly anyhow, compared to my rates of advancement.

It was funny to see the scripting go from auto-robot movement to auto-robot movement with an "rp-script" attempt from developing the idea on the boards here to seeing it happen in game. Who would have of thought I'd run across it? Heh. It was just jarring, because of the insta-fly by conversation with no chance of responding (to what might look like a bot, if you wanted to.)

At this point I figure it's just a gauntlet to be picked up to practice ones scripting abilities for shits and grins.

-J

[Androidpk]

HMC? Harvard Management Company? Honda Motor Company? His Majestys Cunt?

[Sorcasaurus]

Yup. Once again they are lumping all scripters into the same guy.


http://0364551.netsolhost.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/iamsparty.jpg

[Wrathbringer]

HMC? Harvard Management Company? Honda Motor Company? His Majestys Cunt?

Google said it was high maintenance chick. I d say tgo is pushing that line, sure.

[Androidpk]

Google said it was high maintenance chick. I d say tgo is pushing that line, sure.

That was my next guess :(

[Methais]

http://watchplayread.com/wpr-interview-with-eric-latham-producer-for-gemstone-iv/

That's how bud. He obviously is a gamer and cares about the game. Does he always make the best choices? Nope but I don't think he deliberately fucks it up either. He made Wyrom APM so can we give him credit for that at least?

I'm guessing no, but did they ever do anything with this?


One of my current projects is to look into implementing the capability of sending out “highlights” of your character’s accomplishments through social media outlets like Twitter or Facebook. Finding new ways for our community to get the word out is always something I’m thinking about.

Also, Wyrom requested a Wyrom in a suit pic on the officials after the dog in suit avatar movement began over there.

Ladies and gentlemen and cunts and assholes and trannies, I present to you:

http://i.imgur.com/jlFhA0T.jpg

[Kithus]

I'm assuming he meant the Simu definition of High Maintenance Customer. One who's business is costing them too many resources to be worth their subscription fee or who's actions are making others miserable even if they aren't necessarily breaking policy.

[Tisket]

Well heck, I've gotten some private messages and some rep comments stating they thought some of the comments were funny. How about that, funny is subjective.

I also like how apparently people have talked about this script several times on lnet...almost as if the purpose of my script was successful yet people still felt the need to whine and complain because they "didn't think it was funny."

Why is it that it's almost always someone with no sense of humor who sets themselves up as the humor police? Often they are someone who I wouldn't trust to find their own asses with both hands, a map, and a flashlight. Yet they'd have you believe they speak for everyone when they say something is funny or not. Just makes me roll my eyes.

[Allereli]

I've received the fly-by "act Rolls pins all over the place", "careful out there, critters are swarming!" and " It's dangerous to go it alone! Take this! (casts silveries on me).

I can say, it was amusing and jarring.

but not funny? would it still be amusing if multiple people were doing it? That's my concern, when not just TGO is doing it but anyone with access to the repo,

[Soulance]

so the script would walk in, say some random shit, and move on while people were trying to respond? that's even worse.
How often in R/L do you walk by someone and just say "hello" if you even say that at all. Do you strike up a conversation with everyone you pass by?

Sorry Allereli, I'm not meaning to just point this at you as there are plenty of others who are doing the complaining. There are complaints that there is no interaction and people are robot like. Then the complaints turn to someone being too active when the first issue is addressed. So then what is the real problem? I suppise it is just that we can't make everyone happy...or something like that.

[Allereli]

How often in R/L do you walk by someone and just say "hello" if you even say that at all. Do you strike up a conversation with everyone you pass by?

Sorry Allereli, I'm not meaning to just point this at you as there are plenty of others who are doing the complaining. There are complaints that there is no interaction and people are robot like. Then the complaints turn to someone being too active when the first issue is addressed. So then what is the real problem? I suppise it is just that we can't make everyone happy...or something like that.

If it stuck to hello and a wave it would be more reasonable, but it didn't do that, the things it was saying were "jarring." People were trying to respond to it and it just moved on like the robot it is.

[Tenlaar]

How often in R/L do you walk by someone and just say "hello" if you even say that at all. Do you strike up a conversation with everyone you pass by?

Sorry Allereli, I'm not meaning to just point this at you as there are plenty of others who are doing the complaining. There are complaints that there is no interaction and people are robot like. Then the complaints turn to someone being too active when the first issue is addressed. So then what is the real problem? I suppise it is just that we can't make everyone happy...or something like that.

Don't you see, it only counts if it's done not only exactly how, but exactly why they want as well.

[Soulance]

If it stuck to hello and a wave it would be more reasonable, but it didn't do that, the things it was saying were "jarring." People were trying to respond to it and it just moved on like the robot it is.
And I get it a little with not having a chance to say "hey" back so that makes sense.

[Allereli]

Don't you see, it only counts if it's done not only exactly how, but exactly why they want as well.

GS is a community of players with norms for behavior that are decided by the GMs in the interest of keeping up a certain level of roleplay, which is pretty low. It is not a democracy where things are voted on or an anarchy where you get to do whatever you want. You talk about it like you have certain rights in game provided for by the Constitution, you don't.

[Methais]

I'm gonna make a whole set of macros now with stuff from Tgo's script and use them excessively this weekend while I'm in the Landing.

[Soulance]

I'm gonna make a whole set of macros now with stuff from Tgo's script and use them excessively this weekend while I'm in the Landing.
Man! I got banned at the worst time. I'm missing all this good stuff.

[diethx]

How is it "jarring" to see someone wish you well on a hunt or give you the blessing of some deity? Is this a serious complaint?

[Soulance]

This is likely exactly why it continued as long as it did. What was Aulis or any of the board mods supposed to do in this case, remove his posts? That thread was a train wreck on both sides. I think less of both Solomon and TG after reading it.
I was mostly just following along with the posts but then had to finally say something about Solomon. It really appeared he was just trying to have it posted so all of the "townsfolk with pitchforks" could pounce on tgo. I had thought they'd been handling it quite well until I saw what he was up to...prodding that tgo called out ALL GMs which never happened and then making those final comments. Figures, then they close the thread.

[Tenlaar]

GS is a community of players with norms for behavior that are decided by the GMs in the interest of keeping up a certain level of roleplay, which is pretty low.
Yet it isn't the GMs who seem to be the ones with a problem, but rather a group of players like yourself who have decided that something which is not against any rules is unacceptable so a series of bitch fits should be thrown until the GMs come down on another paying customer for, again, not breaking any rules.


It is not a democracy where things are voted on or an anarchy where you get to do whatever you want.
Then why weren't things left at "he's not breaking any rules?"


You talk about it like you have certain rights in game provided for by the Constitution, you don't.
I talk about it like the subscription cost should include the right not to be harassed by other customers because I don't pretend to be a dwarf the same way they pretend to be an elf.

[Soulance]

How is it "jarring" to see someone wish you well on a hunt or give you the blessing of some deity? Is this a serious complaint?
Becaude, scripting or not, most people run past and say nothing while hunting. So to have someone stop and react is always quite a change to me. I'm always surprised, even if it's just a smile or wink. Almost never happens.

[Kithus]

I was mostly just following along with the posts but then had to finally say something about Solomon. It really appeared he was just trying to have it posted so all of the "townsfolk with pitchforks" could pounce on tgo. I had thought they'd been handling it quite well until I saw what he was up to...prodding that tgo called out ALL GMs which never happened and then making those final comments. Figures, then they close the thread.

I work for a bank. If someone were to say to a news station that an employee at our bank had mishandled their funds we would immediately want to know whom they were referring to because it reflects badly on the bank as a whole. If that person decided they did not want to tell us because "I don't want to get them in trouble" we would probably want to make damn sure that it was made obvious to the public at large that we had done everything in our power to investigate this matter. That we wanted to address the problem the customer brought up but the customer was unwilling or unable to provide evidence to back up their claim. Like it or not, improper actions by one GM reflect poorly on the staff as a whole, especially if those actions are not dealt with. Solomon went overboard making his point but it was a valid point.

[Wrathbringer]

Becaude, scripting or not, most people run past and say nothing while hunting. So to have someone stop and react is always quite a change to me. I'm always surprised, even if it's just a smile or wink. Almost never happens.

I do it all the time, but then again, I'm at the keyboard to respond back if they reciprocate.

[Allereli]

I talk about it like the subscription cost should include the right not to be harassed by other customers because I don't pretend to be a dwarf the same way they pretend to be an elf.

it's not a single-player game. the subscription cost buys you access to the gaming environment. if you feel harassed by other players/GMs because of over-reporting, and it has been spelled out to you what bothers the people reporting (acting like a bot almost all the time), then you have a choice to make.

[Soulance]

I do it all the time, but then again, I'm at the keyboard to respond back if they reciprocate.
Well, when I'm welcomed back in a year I'll come hunt by you.;) I do see it from time to time, don't get me wrong. Especially in smaller areas where it's hard not to see the other person multiple times. Just saying most of the time people are focused on hunting whether they're scripting or not.

I do try to stop to see if they want spells or try to go back if I pass and see them stunned. I'd like to learn how to auto-unstun someone though. By the time I call it up they're already good.

[Wrathbringer]

it's not a single-player game. the subscription cost buys you access to the gaming environment. if you feel harassed by other players/GMs because of over-reporting, and it has been spelled out to you what bothers the people reporting (acting like a bot almost all the time), then you have a choice to make.

It really is this simple.

[Wrathbringer]

Well, when I'm welcomed back in a year I'll come hunt by you.;) I do see it from time to time, don't get me wrong. Especially in smaller areas where it's hard not to see the other person multiple times. Just saying most of the time people are focused on hunting whether they're scripting or not.

I do try to stop to see if they want spells or try to go back if I pass and see them stunned. I'd like to learn how to auto-unstun someone though. By the time I call it up they're already good.

Plot to develop roaming unstunning bot reported.

[Soulance]

It really is this simple.
Not exactly. Because what bothers you doesn't bother me. But we're both subscribers to the gaming environment.

[Soulance]

Plot to develop roaming unstunning bot reported.
Sweet, as soon as I am allowed back I'll run around just unstunning people and see how fast I can get banned again. Maybe 120 days this time?

[Latrinsorm]

Yet it isn't the GMs who seem to be the ones with a problem, but rather a group of players like yourself who have decided that something which is not against any rules is unacceptable so a series of bitch fits should be thrown until the GMs come down on another paying customer for, again, not breaking any rules.

Then why weren't things left at "he's not breaking any rules?"

I talk about it like the subscription cost should include the right not to be harassed by other customers because I don't pretend to be a dwarf the same way they pretend to be an elf.Disruptive behavior is against the rules. That no two people agree on what constitutes "disruptive" is why we have GMs in the first place. If a GM agrees that you are being harassed, the customer in question will get in trouble. If a GM agrees that you are being disruptive, you will get in trouble. That's it. There's nothing new here, just people unused to the authorities not siding with them.

[Wrathbringer]

Not exactly. Because what bothers you doesn't bother me. But we're both subscribers to the gaming environment.

Irrelevant. As she said, if it's bothering enough people enough to report, then he has a choice to make. Change the behavior, or get used to getting checked and don't complain about it. Simple.

[Wrathbringer]

Sweet, as soon as I am allowed back I'll run around just unstunning people and see how fast I can get banned again. Maybe 120 days this time?

ha! I'm mostly just trolling tgo in this thread, but I do believe that Allereli and Latrinsorm are all over the right side of this argument.

[Jhynnifer]

How is it "jarring" to see someone wish you well on a hunt or give you the blessing of some deity? Is this a serious complaint?

Of course it is, they beat the ever-loving shit out of the AFK scripting dead horse and now they've managed to breath new life into it by putting this brand new spin on it. Hurray.

[Tgo01]

Is this a serious complaint?

Sadly, yes. There was quite a heated discussion about it on the officials yesterday.

Here is the log I had with the GM. Apparently the complaint was that my character would say something then walk away right afterwards. Since people like to compare this to real life I wonder what people would consider more awkward...someone walking past you in the store and saying "Good morning" then they kept walking or someone walking up to you in the store, stopping in front of you, said "Good morning" then stood there until you answered. Honestly I think the latter would freak me out.



You feel yourself being pulled away...

* says, "Hey there."

* grins.

You say, "Hiya."

* says, "You haven't done anything wrong, so don't think you have."

You render a sharp hand salute.

You say, "I was wondering."

* chuckles.

* says, "People are complaining about the talking bit written into your scripts."

* says, "I never check accounts."

* says, "Or who is who."

* says, "But I'm guessing you are TG dude."

You say, "You are correct"

* grins.

* says, "Honestly, if you are attentive, I don't care about what you script."

* says, "But people are complaining about the talking."

* says, "Anyway to cut thato ut."

* asks, "Out?"

* says, "Sorry."

You sigh.

You say, "Fine."

You say, "I thought it was cute."

* says, "The new talking in the script."

You say, "But okay."

* says, "Me too actually."

* chuckles.

* says, "I think it's awesome, i think they are jarred by the talk, and then the walking away in a millisecond."

You nod.

You say, "Some people gotta complain about everything I suppose."

* says, "Without a doubt."

You say, "Now they'll complain that I DON'T talk."

>You say, "Just you watch."

* laughs!

* says, "I'm sure."

* says, "Like I said, I don't care what you script when you are attentive and ready to roxck."

You say, "Been decades since a GM has interacted with me other than a script check so I just assumed."

* says, "I hear ya."

* says, "I really do."

You say, "Kind of like now, this is basically about my scripting."

You grin.

* says, "I can't speak for anyone else, but I know you're there."

* shrugs.

You say, "We just need to get everyone to realize that now..."

You exclaim, "I'll write a script to make them see it!"

* says, "I honestly don't think that anyone is really dying to bust an AFK scripter."

* laughs!

* nods to you.

* says, "Hey, before I became a GM, I used LICH for everything."

* says, "My wrists thank me."

You laugh out loud!

* says, "It's brutal."

* nods.

You say, "Especially when you run 31 accounts like me."

* says, "I totally get it."

* laughs!

You say, "Okay I'm exaggerating slightly."

* chuckles.

* asks, "How many do you run?"

You say, "7."

* says, "I could never do more than two."

* asks, "Really?"

* says, "Wow."

You nod.

* laughs!

* says, "That's pretty badass."

* chuckles.

You say, "I try."

* says, "Cause you always seem to be on top of it."

* says, "Anyway."

* says, "If you can cut the talk out, that would probably be for the best."

You say, "Alright."

You say, "Don't want to rock the boat too much I suppose."

* says, "Really appreciate it."

* says, "Eh, sometimes there's too many people sitting in the middle."

* winks and flashes a sly grin.

You nod enthusiastically!

You exclaim, "You get me!"

You nod enthusiastically!

* says, "I really do."

* says, "Thanks fore listening."

* turns towards you and renders you a sharp hand salute.

You say, "Of course."

You render a sharp hand salute.

* says, "Be safe and have a great night."

* waves.

I think the GM was cool about it though which is why I agreed to remove the greeting part of my script. Really sounded like the GM was in a tough spot between people complaining about the silliest of things and asking someone to stop doing something the GM felt wasn't an issue.

[Silvean]

Scripted allusions to Zelda and Skyrim are a bit much. None of this is RP. Roleplaying takes more thoughtfulness than these communication snippets. It seems obvious that the whole enterprise was intended to poke fun at both the afk scripting debacle and RP in general. There's a sort of gleeful exuberance to TG's posts that make me think he's almost always joking.

I won't pass judgment on whether or not he's funny. I'm very funny and don't want to set an unfair standard. I am also good looking.

[Tgo01]

I work for a bank. If someone were to say to a news station that an employee at our bank had mishandled their funds we would immediately want to know whom they were referring to because it reflects badly on the bank as a whole.

This is not even close to the same thing. A bank mishandling someone's funds is very serious considering the entire purpose of a bank is to properly handle someone's funds.

I can also guarantee you if your bank had total control over what people said to this news station that they would have censored what the person said and swept the whole thing under the rug, which is exactly what Solomon could have done if he really felt my comment was making the entire staff look bad.

I don't want to hear this shit that Solomon really just cares about the integrity of the staff and how he handles things because if that were the case he would be over on these forums constantly challenging what people say. But since he has never done this (at least not on an account he admits to being his) then his entire statement is bullshit.

[Tgo01]

Scripted allusions to Zelda and Skyrim are a bit much.

I thought they were funny. If that were people's complaints I would have just removed them. Funnily enough those were usually the ones people liked the most.


Roleplaying takes more thoughtfulness than these communication snippets.

It was never meant to be full blown roleplaying. Just my characters acknowledging other characters in an in character manner; hence why I used references to in game Gods.


It seems obvious that the whole enterprise was intended to poke fun at both the afk scripting debacle and RP in general.

No.


There's a sort of gleeful exuberance to TG's posts that make me think he's almost always joking.

Yes.


I won't pass judgment on whether or not he's funny. I'm very funny and don't want to set an unfair standard. I am also good looking.

Please ask again later.

[Luscinia]

I do see it from time to time, don't get me wrong. Especially in smaller areas where it's hard not to see the other person multiple times.

Personally I tend to say hello to random characters in the field a bit less these days because many are running hunting scripts and it's not worth the mutual effort (for me to start a conversation and for them to pause whatever they're doing to reply in any detail). They could even take it the wrong way and assume I'm only trying to interact as an afk check.

[Trouble]

"bow", "salute", "greet", "act Rolls Pins all over the place.", "say ::#{player_name} Careful out there, I think the critters are swarming.", "act clutches his leg before wandering off, muttering something about taking an arrow to the knee.", "say ::#{player_name} Careful, adventurer!", "whistle", "whisper #{player_name} It's dangerous to go alone! Take this.", "act drops to the ground, rolls forward, then jumps to his feet before moving out of sight.", "act mutters something about only finding smooth stones lately.", "act stops for a moment to clean the blood off his weapon.", "act glances down at his feet before moving on, apparently worried about tripping over something.", "say ::#{player_name} I hope your hunt goes well, friend.", "say ::#{player_name} Things are not as they seem tonight.", "say ::#{player_name} May Andelas lend you strength in your battles.", "say ::#{player_name} Please do not anger Charl tonight, my clothes cannot withstand another storm.", "say ::#{player_name} I hope Lumnis imparts much wisdom upon you tonight.", "say ::#{player_name} So Cholen and a halfing walk into a bar...", "say ::#{player_name} Eonak will see you to victory!", "say ::#{player_name} Stay safe and may Imaera watch over you.", "say ::#{player_name} Kai grants you strength today.", "wave"

Ah ok, I saw that from a couple of people in the Rift and wondered if they had these random things on hotkeys. Cool script! Great job!

[zzentar]

Tgo, I seldom hunt plane 4, but when I did not too long ago, I met one of your bots. I am obviously not a hater of scripts, but your script made me think it was either, a GM character or a quest type thing. Doesn't really matter, what your character did by saying, 'Be careful out there, they are swarming'. Is distract me from hunting. You can say you scripts are harmless but many cant live, especially when trying to chase your character to find out what you meant, especially if they are young and new to the area.
~Zz

[Wrathbringer]

Sadly, yes. There was quite a heated discussion about it on the officials yesterday.

Aw, and I missed it? AFK a few belatedly trolling you on the officials.

[Tenlaar]

it's not a single-player game.
No, no it's not. You should repeat that to yourself every morning and think about what it could mean for you. Pro tip, if it's "they have to play how I want" then you are doing it wrong.


the subscription cost buys you access to the gaming environment.
No shit, really?


if you feel harassed by other players/GMs because of over-reporting, and it has been spelled out to you what bothers the people reporting (acting like a bot almost all the time), then you have a choice to make.

Yeah, apparently the choice of whether to continue paying for a game that allows some players to harass the GMs enough to get them to harass players who aren't breaking any rules. Because it would be way too fucking simple for people to stop being so damned offended because somebody wants to play the game without talking to them.

[Allereli]

No, no it's not. You should repeat that to yourself every morning and think about what it could mean for you. Pro tip, if it's "they have to play how I want" then you are doing it wrong.

Plenty of people play differently than I do and I have zero issue with them. I have an issue with this specific form of playing because they set up an entirely separate instance of the game for people to play in using this "way" of playing because it was deemed too disruptive to the existing instance.


Yeah, apparently the choice of whether to continue paying for a game that allows some players to harass the GMs enough to get them to harass players who aren't breaking any rules. Because it would be way too fucking simple for people to stop being so damned offended because somebody wants to play the game without talking to them.

they're not harassing GMs. players were explicitly told to report when they saw someone who appeared to be AFK scripting. While there are people who over report and report to get others in trouble as a personal vendetta, that is a separate issue from what is happening here.

[zzentar]

No, no it's not. You should repeat that to yourself every morning and think about what it could mean for you. Pro tip, if it's "they have to play how I want" then you are doing it wrong.


No shit, really?



Yeah, apparently the choice of whether to continue paying for a game that allows some players to harass the GMs enough to get them to harass players who aren't breaking any rules. Because it would be way too fucking simple for people to stop being so damned offended because somebody wants to play the game without talking to them.

I remember people getting permanently banned for saying, I am quitting. Free coin share at the boulder. be here in 5 minutes. then cast meteors or open void.

you decide how you want to play, GMs will regulate and the player population will, as a whole, get the GMs to do what is best for the population.
~Zz

[Tisket]

I think the GM was cool about it though which is why I agreed to remove the greeting part of my script. Really sounded like the GM was in a tough spot between people complaining about the silliest of things and asking someone to stop doing something the GM felt wasn't an issue.

He/she was cool. You should have left the name in so we could all say nice things about him/her! Why do you want to cockblock us??

[diethx]

Even the GM said he knows Tgo isn't AFK... so what's the problem?

[Wrathbringer]

Thread closed. Opportunity missed. I guess I'll just have to wait for tomorrow's afk scripting thread on the officials. :(

[Tisket]

Wonder how long it will be before Candor tries to claim he was the GM in that discussion with TG.

[ThatDamnTep]

Tgo, I seldom hunt plane 4, but when I did not too long ago, I met one of your bots. I am obviously not a hater of scripts, but your script made me think it was either, a GM character or a quest type thing. Doesn't really matter, what your character did by saying, 'Be careful out there, they are swarming'. Is distract me from hunting. You can say you scripts are harmless but many cant live, especially when trying to chase your character to find out what you meant, especially if they are young and new to the area.
~Zz

Has anyone tried sending him a thought using our lovely IC ESP communication? No chasing required.

[Tgo01]

Cool script! Great job!

Why thank ya.


Doesn't really matter, what your character did by saying, 'Be careful out there, they are swarming'. Is distract me from hunting.

I could have removed that one. But to be fair my character said they thought the critters were swarming :p


You can say you scripts are harmless but many cant live, especially when trying to chase your character to find out what you meant, especially if they are young and new to the area.

I don't understand why someone would chase my character down to ask what he meant by he thought the critters were swarming.


Aw, and I missed it? AFK a few belatedly trolling you on the officials.

Too late, the thread has been closed by the GMs and posts are being pulled. Unless of course you're the troll king himself, Krakii, then your posts get to stay.


they're not harassing GMs. players were explicitly told to report when they saw someone who appeared to be AFK scripting. While there are people who over report and report to get others in trouble as a personal vendetta, that is a separate issue from what is happening here.

Except as you can clearly see from my log with the GM they were not receiving complaints because people thought I was afk scripting. The complaints specifically mentioned it being "jarring."

So yes. People harassed the GMs to harass a player who was not breaking a single rule and of which 99.99% of their playing time they never even saw said player's characters.

[Wrathbringer]

Why thank ya.



I could have removed that one. But to be fair my character said they thought the critters were swarming :p



I don't understand why someone would chase my character down to ask what he meant by he thought the critters were swarming.



Too late, the thread has been closed by the GMs and posts are being pulled. Unless of course you're the troll king himself, Krakii, then your posts get to stay.



Except as you can clearly see from my log with the GM they were not receiving complaints because people thought I was afk scripting. The complaints specifically mentioned it being "jarring."

So yes. People harassed the GMs to harass a player who was not breaking a single rule and of which 99.99% of their playing time they never even saw said player's characters.

Please change your posting habits, as the intervals between each make them rather "jarring" to me. This activity has been reported.

[Allereli]

Except as you can clearly see from my log with the GM they were not receiving complaints because people thought I was afk scripting. The complaints specifically mentioned it being "jarring."

yes, for that one day, because you had changed your script and now you were an even more annoying bot. and what about the other dozens? ten? 5? times you were checked that you complained about?

[Tenlaar]

I have an issue with this specific form of playing because they set up an entirely separate instance of the game for people to play in using this "way" of playing because it was deemed too disruptive to the existing instance.

This is patently false and your issue is based on a lie, then. Shattered was not made as a place for scripters to go because they don't belong in prime. It was made as a place for no rules, no enforced RP play.


they're not harassing GMs. players were explicitly told to report when they saw someone who appeared to be AFK scripting. While there are people who over report and report to get others in trouble as a personal vendetta, that is a separate issue from what is happening here.



* says, "You haven't done anything wrong, so don't think you have."

* says, "People are complaining about the talking bit written into your scripts."

* says, "Honestly, if you are attentive, I don't care about what you script."

* says, "But people are complaining about the talking."

* says, "I think it's awesome, i think they are jarred by the talk, and then the walking away in a millisecond."

* says, "Like I said, I don't care what you script when you are attentive and ready to roxck."
Sure as hell looks like the GMs are being forced to ask TG to stop doing things that they don't deem disruptive or against any rules by a group of players raising a stink.

[Tenlaar]

yes, for that one day, because you had changed your script and now you were an even more annoying bot. and what about the other dozens? ten? 5? times you were checked that you complained about?

Dude. Seriously. At least fucking pay attention to what you throw bitch fits about.

[Tgo01]

He/she was cool. You should have left the name in so we could all say nice things about him/her! Why do you want to cockblock us??

lol

I just figured the people who sent the complaints might not take too kindly to the GM basically saying I see nothing wrong with what you are doing, I know you're not afk, but people be crazy, ya dig?

I know the people who sent the complaints want to see something more along the lines of "You done fucked up this time Tgo01! We have you dead to rights! HHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH!"


Even the GM said he knows Tgo isn't AFK... so what's the problem?

You have would have to ask Taverkin. Three times he said I was "making a mockery" of the game without ever elaborating on what exactly he meant by that.


Has anyone tried sending him a thought using our lovely IC ESP communication? No chasing required.

That's just crazy talk!


Please change your posting habits, as the intervals between each make them rather "jarring" to me. This activity has been reported.

This too!

[zzentar]

I think you all misunderstand me,
there are scripts that are distracting till you get used to them.
whisper masks are a great example.

I have stopped doing one of the things that made me smile
because someone reported me for screen scroll.

I used to do ambush spellage at TSC and give everyone spells.
But once the community says its a distraction, you just have to stop.

~Zz

[Tgo01]

yes, for that one day, because you had changed your script and now you were an even more annoying bot. and what about the other dozens? ten? 5? times you were checked that you complained about?

For that one day? Would you be at all interested to know I have been running these scripts for at least a week now? But they only suddenly became a problem recently, apparently.

And I would love for you to point out where I have ever complained about being script checked or the frequency to which I have been script checked.

I have complained about exactly 3 script checks and the complaints weren't so much the checks themselves but the lecture I received afterwards. That happened months ago and the lectures have since stopped.


Dude. Seriously. At least fucking pay attention to what you throw bitch fits about.

^


I used to do ambush spellage at TSC and give everyone spells.
But once the community says its a distraction, you just have to stop.

People actually complained about you spelling people up in TSC? Goodness gracious.

[Allereli]

Dude. Seriously. At least fucking pay attention to what you throw bitch fits about.

what are you whining about now? there has been some speculation that TGO overstates how much he has been checked.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Discussions%20with%20Simutronics/The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly%20(general%20complai nts)/view/9838


TGO01, you're the only one who has made all these responses as if they are directed to you. They aren't. You're just not the center of this debate. You don't even get checked that often. You're arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Androidpk]

Why thank ya.



I could have removed that one. But to be fair my character said they thought the critters were swarming :p



I don't understand why someone would chase my character down to ask what he meant by he thought the critters were swarming.



Too late, the thread has been closed by the GMs and posts are being pulled. Unless of course you're the troll king himself, Krakii, then your posts get to stay.



Except as you can clearly see from my log with the GM they were not receiving complaints because people thought I was afk scripting. The complaints specifically mentioned it being "jarring."

So yes. People harassed the GMs to harass a player who was not breaking a single rule and of which 99.99% of their playing time they never even saw said player's characters.

You poor victim. Everyone is mean and picking on Tgo when he's just trying to afk-script for silvers to sell.

[Tgo01]

what are you whining about now? there has been some speculation that TGO overstates how much he has been checked.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Discussions%20with%20Simutronics/The%20Bad,%20and%20the%20Ugly%20(general%20complai nts)/view/9838

Wait...first you say I whined about how often I got checked now you're saying I don't get checked that often?

Oh. Right. I was "overstating" how often I got checked even though that quote from Wyrom doesn't say that.


You poor victim. Everyone is mean and picking on Tgo when he's just trying to afk-script for silvers to sell.

Finally someone gets it!

Hey wait a minute.

[Allereli]

This is patently false and your issue is based on a lie, then. Shattered was not made as a place for scripters to go because they don't belong in prime. It was made as a place for no rules, no enforced RP play.

so if someone has said he doesn't want to develop his character, doesn't want to RP, don't want to respond to other players, doesn't want to follow any rules, where should he play?

[zzentar]

I'd like to summarize my views on this thread and the huge Officials thread on same subject:

There are less than a dozen truly awesome ruby coders and TGo is definitely in that group,
Instead of doing your afk scripting in private as most have done
you decided to shove scripting in the GMs face, (oh and all the players that got those odd msgs while they were hunting.).
I never want a player to leave, we don't have enough anymore, but please, try to think of the whole, not just the self.
~Zz

[Buckwheet]

so if someone has said he doesn't want to develop his character, doesn't want to RP, don't want to respond to other players, doesn't want to follow any rules, where should he play?

Wherever they want to spend their money.


I'd like to summarize my views on this thread and the huge Officials thread on same subject:

There are less than a dozen truly awesome ruby coders and TGo is definitely in that group,
Instead of doing your afk scripting in private as most have done
you decided to shove scripting in the GMs face, (oh and all the players that got those odd msgs while they were hunting.).
I never want a player to leave, we don't have enough anymore, but please, try to think of the whole, not just the self.
~Zz


99% of the time I scripted in private and people still bitched about it and I still would get script checked. So that argument doesn't hold water.

[zzentar]

I script a ton of stuff, selling gems. moving items from container to container, ect ect. I dont script anything but utilities. I think I made a thread here for one liners
I dont get script checked because I dont script hunt

[Allereli]

Wherever they want to spend their money.

not everything is about money. this is one of them that's not.


99% of the time I scripted in private and people still bitched about it and I still would get script checked. So that argument doesn't hold water.

how do you know someone complained? I believe it's been said that GMs when doing independent script checks do go and look at tables.

[Buckwheet]

not everything is about money. this is one of them that's not.



how do you know someone complained? I believe it's been said that GMs when doing independent script checks do go and look at tables.

They said they typically DO NOT go looking for people and MOST of the time it is because someone complained.

It isn't about the money. You asked where they should go play. I said, wherever they want to spend their money. If someone wants to go spend money on WoW and cuss in chat and harass players and are willing to pay for that, who am I to tell them to go play somewhere else?

[Tenlaar]

so if someone has said he doesn't want to develop his character, doesn't want to RP, don't want to respond to other players, doesn't want to follow any rules, where should he play?

See, this is the problem. You do not seem to be able to separate the first three from the bolded fourth. They are not the same. What rules is he breaking? What rules does he not want to follow? If he was breaking rules I'm pretty sure his GM interaction would not have started with "you're not breaking any rules." And if he's not breaking rules, he should play wherever he damn well pleases.

A bunch of players have decided that not talking to them is breaking rules. No, wait, talking to them is breaking rules. Talking to them but not in the right way is breaking rules? Yeah, I think it's that one, until somebody decides to change what they are complaining about yet again.

[zzentar]

not everything is about money. this is one of them that's not.



how do you know someone complained? I believe it's been said that GMs when doing independent script checks do go and look at tables.

They looked at tables as soon as people made scripts for fletching, I forgot his name but he gave me my only 'official warning' 10 years ago because I didnt understand the game and kept screaming at the Col assasin to come out and fight.

If you think tables, far away nodes are th way to make you invis, you are sadly mistaken. Gms look for it, why not try something new and just try to make some friends?
I have made great friends here. I want to make more.
~Zz

[Allereli]

If someone wants to go spend money on WoW and cuss in chat and harass players and are willing to pay for that, who am I to tell them to go play somewhere else?

are you another WoW player? I've never played WoW, so I don't know how it works, so I really don't know how to respond.

[Wrathbringer]

Too late, the thread has been closed by the GMs and posts are being pulled. Unless of course you're the troll king himself, Krakii, then your posts get to stay.

Just posted mine. We'll see how long it lasts!

"I just want to say I agree with everyone except tgo01 and that I disagreed with everything he posted. Sorry, I missed this discussion and it was tearing me up inside that I didn't get to comment. Thanks for understanding."

[Tenlaar]

Just posted mine. We'll see how long it lasts!

"I just want to say I agree with everyone except tgo01 and that I disagreed with everything he posted. Sorry, I missed this discussion and it was tearing me up inside that I didn't get to comment. Thanks for understanding."

But I agreed with TG. Which means you didn't agree with him but you agreed with me and I agreed with him so you agreed with him.

BOOM, LAWYERED!

[Allereli]

What rules is he breaking? What rules does he not want to follow? If he was breaking rules I'm pretty sure his GM interaction would not have started with "you're not breaking any rules." And if he's not breaking rules, he should play wherever he damn well pleases.

A bunch of players have decided that not talking to them is breaking rules. No, wait, talking to them is breaking rules. Talking to them but not in the right way is breaking rules? Yeah, I think it's that one, until somebody decides to change what they are complaining about yet again.

the disruptive rule. the excessive scripting rule. he's running 7 characters around at the same time doing this? (feel free to clarify) you don't think that can be considered disruptive? when you act like a bot, don't respond like a bot, shouldn't you expect to be treated like a bot?

[Wrathbringer]

It only lasted 12 minutes. :(

[Tgo01]

the disruptive rule. the excessive scripting rule. he's running 7 characters around at the same time doing this? (feel free to clarify) you don't think that can be considered disruptive?

No. Only two of them hunt the same area, the rest are on their own.


when you act like a bot, don't respond like a bot, shouldn't you expect to be treated like a bot?

But wait..I was responding...people just didn't like the initial interaction because it was scripted. This is getting all kinds of confusing now :(

"We want you to acknowledge our presence! But not with scripts! And after you're done acknowledging our presence we want you to sit there in a very dangerous hunting ground long enough for us to respond! And that response better not be scripted, dagnabbit!"


It only lasted 12 minutes. :(

Your name is not Krakii, noob.

[Methais]

* says, "But I'm guessing you are TG dude."

I'm confused. Did someone report all like "OMG TG DUDES IS BEING ANNOYING!!!!!!!" or did this whole conversation stem from just the forum uproar? Otherwise why would the GM be like "I'm guessing you're TG dude."?

[Silvean]

If someone wants to go spend money on WoW and cuss in chat and harass players and are willing to pay for that, who am I to tell them to go play somewhere else?

Are you serious? I guess the best answer is that you have no reason to tell them to play somewhere else. If you have a stake in the WoW community, however, then you would have a reason. Blizzard and the people they have dedicated to policing WoW to ensure a certain kind of community and vision for the game have a reason and a responsibility in this regard. Same as the GMs in their enforcement of policy and exercise of their discretion in policing Gemstone.

Let me just take this magic moment to make a couple observations about the PC. (1.) I don't read a lot of online message boards but I am continually amused by how much you people fucking hate each other. (2.) This place is the mother church of people casually rambling off extremist positions as if they're the most normal thing in the world.

[Tgo01]

I'm confused. Did someone report all like "OMG TG DUDES IS BEING ANNOYING!!!!!!!" or did this whole conversation stem from just the forum uproar? Otherwise why would the GM be like "I'm guessing you're TG dude."?

I'm thinking you're exactly right; either the complaints came from reading the forum or the GM response was because of the forum itself.

[Allereli]

But wait..I was responding...people just didn't like the initial interaction because it was scripted. This is getting all kinds of confusing now :(

I know it's not confusing to you. you're doing a great job getting the attention you so obviously crave.

[Tgo01]

I know it's not confusing to you. you're doing a great job getting the attention you so obviously crave.

You can read me like a book...a blind chick reading a book, that is.

I have been mostly quiet on the officials for the better part of...well the better part of a couple of decades, actually. I got involved recently only because what was being discussed pertained to me, then got more involved when it specifically pertained to me (this conversation.)

I have kept to myself in game for quite a while now actually. It was only very recently, based on people whining that scripters rushed through hunting areas without acknowledging other people, that I started to interact with people more in game.

I don't attend any events. I never get any work done by GMs. Other than yesterday I haven't received a script check in months. If you want to look at this logically, I am perhaps one of Simu's better customers; I give them more money than the average player and require almost 0% additional maintenance other than what the base game provides.

[Wrathbringer]

You can read me like a book...a blind chick reading a book, that is.

I have been mostly quiet on the officials for the better part of...well the better part of a couple of decades, actually. I got involved recently only because what was being discussed pertained to me, then got more involved when it specifically pertained to me (this conversation.)

I have kept to myself in game for quite a while now actually. It was only very recently, based on people whining that scripters rushed through hunting areas without acknowledging other people, that I started to interact with people more in game.

I don't attend any events. I never get any work done by GMs. Other than yesterday I haven't received a script check in months. If you want to look at this logically, I am perhaps one of Simu's better customers; I give them more money than the average player and require almost 0% additional maintenance other than what the base game provides.

Blind people can read, you know. Why do you hate blind people, you sightist?

[Allereli]

yes, I'm a braille expert.

[Silvean]

yes, I'm a braille expert.

Did you say grail expert?

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080526120146/indianajones/images/8/8c/Henry.gif

[Buckwheet]

Are you serious? I guess the best answer is that you have no reason to tell them to play somewhere else. If you have a stake in the WoW community, however, then you would have a reason. Blizzard and the people they have dedicated to policing WoW to ensure a certain kind of community and vision for the game have a reason and a responsibility in this regard. Same as the GMs in their enforcement of policy and exercise of their discretion in policing Gemstone.

Let me just take this magic moment to make a couple observations about the PC. (1.) I don't read a lot of online message boards but I am continually amused by how much you people fucking hate each other. (2.) This place is the mother church of people casually rambling off extremist positions as if they're the most normal thing in the world.

Yes I am serious. I don't have a stake in the WoW community. I login, I do my dailies, I run with friends and I PvP. So remind me again why I should spend any considerable amount of time worrying about the guy saying shit on general? I don't.

[Tgo01]

Yes I am serious. I don't have a stake in the WoW community. I login, I do my dailies, I run with friends and I PvP. So remind me again why I should spend any considerable amount of time worrying about the guy saying shit on general? I don't.

Just as long as you don't randomly say hi to people you pass by while doing dailies.

[Silvean]

Yes I am serious. I don't have a stake in the WoW community. I login, I do my dailies, I run with friends and I PvP. So remind me again why I should spend any considerable amount of time worrying about the guy saying shit on general? I don't.

That's fine. But you concede that other players and especially the company running the game have valid concerns in this regard?

[Buckwheet]

That's fine. But you concede that other players and especially the company running the game have valid concerns in this regard?

Have you ever played WoW or any popular MMO dealing with large populations? There is no community and for the most part players don't give a shit. Blizzard isn't going to go after a guy randomly saying Hey, you stole my purples FUCK YOU! in chat. They have bigger things to take care of.

[Silvean]

Have you ever played WoW or any popular MMO dealing with large populations? There is no community and for the most part players don't give a shit. Blizzard isn't going to go after a guy randomly saying Hey, you stole my purples FUCK YOU! in chat. They have bigger things to take care of.

All the time. I was thinking more of people spewing hate speech or something in general chat. Blizzard does police that sort of thing to some extent. Unless someone was being particularly loathsome, I'm in the group of players who don't give a shit but stuff like that still needs to be reportable and policed.

My point is that being a "paying customer" doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want. Gemstone has a much tighter sense of community and stricter vision of what the game should be as reflected in policy. It gets policed more closely. It ought to be. I feel like I've said it four or five times in the last month: you can't overemphasize the customer/business model of Gemstone at the expense of the player/gamemaster model.

[Buckwheet]

All the time. I was thinking more of people spewing hate speech or something in general chat. Blizzard does police that sort of thing to some extent. Unless someone was being particularly loathsome, I'm in the group of players who don't give a shit but stuff like that still needs to be reportable and policed.

My point is that being a "paying customer" doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want. Gemstone has a much tighter sense of community and stricter vision of what the game should be as reflected in policy. It gets policed more closely. It ought to be. I feel like I've said it four or five times in the last month: you can't overemphasize the customer/business model of Gemstone at the expense of the player/gamemaster model.

How does any of this relate to my answer I gave for where someone should go play. If people realized things weren't for them, they would self moderation. I said, if you have $15, and you happen to be like the player type Allereli suggested, you are free to go play...anywhere you want to spend your money on. She wanted people to say Shattered. Go play...

Diablo 3, WoW, or any other game you want. Jesus.

[Silvean]

How does any of this relate to my answer I gave for where someone should go play. If people realized things weren't for them, they would self moderation. I said, if you have $15, and you happen to be like the player type Allereli suggested, you are free to go play...anywhere you want to spend your money on. She wanted people to say Shattered. Go play...

Diablo 3, WoW, or any other game you want. Jesus.

I think I misread your response then.

1. Allereli was suggesting that someone who doesn't want to play by Gemstone prime's rules should player in Shattered.

2. You responded that they should go play wherever they want to spend their money.

3. I read this as saying that they should be able to play wherever they spend their money, i.e. they should be able to play how they want if they are paying.

4. You evidently meant that "If they can't play Gemstone by its rules and standards, they can play any number of games besides Shattered."

Yes. That is true. They could also have a picnic with teddy bears.

[Latrinsorm]

I have been mostly quiet on the officials for the better part of...well the better part of a couple of decades, actually.False, the better parts of the decades were when Bush was President.
Have you ever played WoW or any popular MMO dealing with large populations? There is no community and for the most part players don't give a shit. Blizzard isn't going to go after a guy randomly saying Hey, you stole my purples FUCK YOU! in chat. They have bigger things to take care of.I'm not sure why a large population game is relevant to GS, but as a matter of fact I have observed good community in two MMOs and it is the reason I left another. I have not played WoW and it is often used as a reverse exemplar: "the community in this game is great, I come from WoW and it's awful there!", so maybe your experience being limited to that game has colored your perceptions of the genre as a whole? I don't know, but your depiction of MMOs in general is off.
How does any of this relate to my answer I gave for where someone should go play. If people realized things weren't for them, they would self moderation. I said, if you have $15, and you happen to be like the player type Allereli suggested, you are free to go play...anywhere you want to spend your money on. She wanted people to say Shattered. Go play...

Diablo 3, WoW, or any other game you want. Jesus.This is a naive way of looking at things, and is again the whole reason we have GMs as authority figures in GS.

[zzentar]

How does any of this relate to my answer I gave for where someone should go play. If people realized things weren't for them, they would self moderation. I said, if you have $15, and you happen to be like the player type Allereli suggested, you are free to go play...anywhere you want to spend your money on. She wanted people to say Shattered. Go play...

Diablo 3, WoW, or any other game you want. Jesus.

OR!!! They could go Kitsun!!! Get your brother, family, chained slaves in the basements to spam the server so you get 20ish of 100 tickets, (from memory, so excuse mistakes) Yea we have a ton of people that cheat, we have a ton of people that scam and we have afk hunters. We all lose when people do this but they all seem to go away. Just dont buy from them and they have no reason to be here
~Zz

[Warriorbird]

False, the better parts of the decades were when Bush was President.

You heard it first here. Tgo01 is George Bush.

[Allereli]

3. I read this as saying that they should be able to play wherever they spend their money, i.e. they should be able to play how they want if they are paying.

ditto. and teddy bears are awesome for picnics.

[Latrinsorm]

You heard it first here. Tgo01 is George Bush.This only stands to reason if George Bush posted on the officials, and you and I both know that only George H. W. Bush frequented them with any frequency. Stop trolling!!!

[Tgo01]

This is a naive way of looking at things, and is again the whole reason we have GMs as authority figures in GS.

Yes, GMs are authority figures. This means at times they have to pull people aside, slap them upside the head and say, "Seriously dude?! WTF?!"

They basically do this after they approve a name that has been bad named; people who bad name that name in the future get an automatic response stating "We investigated this name already, leave us alone."

Sometimes being an authority figure means making hard, but correct, choices. It doesn't mean you cave in to the demands of a small vocal minority because they are the best whiners any online game has ever seen.

[Tgo01]

You heard it first here. Tgo01 is George Bush.

Well obviously.


This only stands to reason if George Bush posted on the officials, and you and I both know that only George H. W. Bush frequented them with any frequency. Stop trolling!!!

Curses!

[Methais]

so if someone has said he doesn't want to develop his character

Not against the rules.


doesn't want to RP

Not against the rules.


don't want to respond to other players

Not against the rules.


doesn't want to follow any rules

I guess this is against the rules.

[Androidpk]

ditto. and teddy bears are awesome for picnics.

I hope you mean teddy grahams.

[Allereli]

I hope you mean teddy grahams.

nope


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrvkHAxnjzI

[Androidpk]

I want to see Smashing Pumpkins cover that song.

[Soulance]

I want to see Smashing Pumpkins cover that song.
I don't want to see the Smashing Pumpkins cover anything.

[Methais]

I don't want to see the Smashing Pumpkins cover anything.

I'm pretty sure their singer covers nose when he sings, if that counts.

[Hightower]

How often in R/L do you walk by someone and just say "hello" if you even say that at all. Do you strike up a conversation with everyone you pass by?

Sorry Allereli, I'm not meaning to just point this at you as there are plenty of others who are doing the complaining. There are complaints that there is no interaction and people are robot like. Then the complaints turn to someone being too active when the first issue is addressed. So then what is the real problem? I suppise it is just that we can't make everyone happy...or something like that.


I guess for me I just don't understand why it's difficult to understand that there is a difference between entering canned lines into a script and interaction. Is that really a distinction that you don't understand?Honestly, I'm thinking you folks who keep saying this must be joking? But we've had this argument before. We aren't changing any minds on either side. And I suppose it's possible that neither side is truly capable of understanding the perspective of the other. I really don't get how this form of scripting is "interaction" to you.

[Tgo01]

I'm pretty sure their singer covers nose when he sings, if that counts.

No...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOG3eus4ZSo

Well okay maybe...

[Wrathbringer]

Yes, GMs are authority figures. This means at times they have to pull people aside, slap them upside the head and say, "Seriously dude?! WTF?!"

They basically do this after they approve a name that has been bad named; people who bad name that name in the future get an automatic response stating "We investigated this name already, leave us alone."

Sometimes being an authority figure means making hard, but correct, choices. It doesn't mean you cave in to the demands of a small vocal minority because they are the best whiners any online game has ever seen.

Recently had a mule char named Phlatewlance. No one ever badnamed. :(

[Androidpk]

I don't want to see the Smashing Pumpkins cover anything.

Original material only?

[subzero]

I believe what we can conclude from this thread is that afk-scripting and second-hand afk-scripting cause psychosis. Therefore, you should all cancel immediately.

[Tgo01]

I guess for me I just don't understand why it's difficult to understand that there is a difference between entering canned lines into a script and interaction. Is that really a distinction that you don't understand?

I see the difference. What I don't understand is how this rose to the level of actually getting a GM involved and said GM asking me to stop running said script.

Nothing else changing in my gaming habits; I still hunted the same areas, I still helped people who were stunned or prone or dead, I still hunted in the exact same fashion. The only difference was whenever I came across someone I would greet them in some form; it only did this to each character once unless I restarted the script for some reason.

I wasn't seeking out people I knew were annoyed by the script (I didn't even know anyone was truly annoyed with the script until yesterday), I wasn't doing the same greet (like waving) each and every time I ran by a character.

My comment in the earlier afk scripting discussion turned out to be quite prophetic I suppose. I said something about how ludicrous it would be for me to watch someone play the game then note everything they did and said that annoyed me then reported them to the GMs because they were annoying me and expecting the GMs to actually do something about it. Pretty sure some people even mocked me for making such a comparison and hey, look at that, that's exactly what happened.

[Nahkaev]

some of you have no sense of humor whatsoever.

what a sad existence

[Gelston]

Did you say grail expert?

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080526120146/indianajones/images/8/8c/Henry.gif

I laughed too much at this.

[Soulance]

Original material only?
No, all material. I'm a Chicago-ian and really don't like when they link him with Chicago. I'd rather listen to the "most annoying sound" from Dumb and Dumber.

[Soulance]

Recently had a mule char named Phlatewlance. No one ever badnamed. :(
Reported for not being repoeted! Well, when I get back at least.

[Haldrik]

Frankly, Taverkin, I wish you'd just shut the fuck up already

~Taverkin

FTFY

[Wrathbringer]

No, all material. I'm a Chicago-ian and really don't like when they link him with Chicago. I'd rather listen to the "most annoying sound" from Dumb and Dumber.

So you're saying Jim Carrey wasn't impersonating the pumpkins lead singer in that scene?

[Soulance]

So you're saying Jim Carrey wasn't impersonating the pumpkins lead singer in that scene?
Hmmmmm, you could be on to something... Still, Carrey sounded better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAWoP1kncRE

[Haldrik]

Jesus, this fucking sense of entitlement of some players to force other players to play how think think the game should be played. And then spamming GMs about it.

Dragonrealms went through this phase for awhile and the GMS told those players to SHUT THE FUCK UP. People don't have to react and have absolutely ZERO obligation to react/reply/respond to any players, ONLY GMS script checks (clearly). And the RP is much better over there.


Seriously, SHUT THE FUCK UP.

[Jeril]

I guess for me I just don't understand why it's difficult to understand that there is a difference between entering canned lines into a script and interaction. Is that really a distinction that you don't understand?Honestly, I'm thinking you folks who keep saying this must be joking? But we've had this argument before. We aren't changing any minds on either side. And I suppose it's possible that neither side is truly capable of understanding the perspective of the other. I really don't get how this form of scripting is "interaction" to you.

"Canned" responses are how most people react to certain things. Like when someone asks us how we are ect. You can also find many forms of these "canned" responses by all the best role players because a character acting consistently is one of the keys to being a good role player. The problem idiots have with him is that he is scripting. If someone ran around doing the same thing without scripting no one would be complaining.

[Wrathbringer]

"Canned" responses are how most people react to certain things. Like when someone asks us how we are ect. You can also find many forms of these "canned" responses by all the best role players because a character acting consistently is one of the keys to being a good role player. The problem idiots have with him is that he is scripting. If someone ran around doing the same thing without scripting no one would be complaining.

I still would be.

[Archigeek]

"Canned" responses are how most people react to certain things. Like when someone asks us how we are ect. You can also find many forms of these "canned" responses by all the best role players because a character acting consistently is one of the keys to being a good role player. The problem idiots have with him is that he is scripting. If someone ran around doing the same thing without scripting no one would be complaining.

I think you're not quite understanding. It wouldn't be the same if someone was really initiating RP, because if someone wasn't scripting, they'd wait around for an answer when they initiated RP. It's retarded and annoying. He says something, maybe casts 401 at you, and bolts off in usual script-speed fashion, before you can say so much as thank you. After a half dozen times I just ignored it. Thank God I haven't hunted in the same area where he's run that script, as if I had that repeatedly it would really start to give me a headache.

[Soulance]

because if someone wasn't scripting, they'd wait around for an answer when they initiated RP.
Not true- generalizing. I can get where you're annoyed with it, but others have stated they have enjoyed the experience.

[Wrathbringer]

I think you're not quite understanding. It wouldn't be the same if someone was really initiating RP, because if someone wasn't scripting, they'd wait around for an answer when they initiated RP. It's retarded and annoying. He says something, maybe casts 401 at you, and bolts off in usual script-speed fashion, before you can say so much as thank you. After a half dozen times I just ignored it. Thank God I haven't hunted in the same area where he's run that script, as if I had that repeatedly it would really start to give me a headache.

In before STOP TRYING TO GET ME TO PLAY CORRECTLY I ENJOY PLAYING INCORRECTLY!!!!!1!111one!1eleventy 1

[Wrathbringer]

1!

[Soulance]

In before STOP TRYING TO GET ME TO PLAY CORRECTLY I ENJOY PLAYING INCORRECTLY!!!!!1!111one!1eleventy 1
Exactly, which, as a paying customer, he is allowed to do...as long as he's not afk...or scripting he's afk...or not playing how others want him to play afk...or listening to Smashing Pumpkins...

[Wrathbringer]

Exactly, which, as a paying customer, he is allowed to do...as long as he's not afk...or scripting he's afk...or not playing how others want him to play afk...or listening to Smashing Pumpkins...

Again, it's the disruptive caveat that is at issue here. Bot behavior is disruptive, apparently.

[Jeril]

I think you're not quite understanding. It wouldn't be the same if someone was really initiating RP, because if someone wasn't scripting, they'd wait around for an answer when they initiated RP. It's retarded and annoying. He says something, maybe casts 401 at you, and bolts off in usual script-speed fashion, before you can say so much as thank you. After a half dozen times I just ignored it. Thank God I haven't hunted in the same area where he's run that script, as if I had that repeatedly it would really start to give me a headache.

He stated he doesn't repeat unless he happened to restart the script. And I am completely understanding. I've often entered rooms, done something to someone and zipped off, whether I was hunting, in town, or wherever. I've also hung around and talked to people regardless of where I've been but not everyone is like that. I don't expect people to stop and talk while hunting. And hey, as other people have done you can think to him or track him down in between hunts if you wanted to. He isn't afk, and he does respond to people often enough when they bother.

[Archigeek]

He stated he doesn't repeat unless he happened to restart the script. And I am completely understanding. I've often entered rooms, done something to someone and zipped off, whether I was hunting, in town, or wherever. I've also hung around and talked to people regardless of where I've been but not everyone is like that. I don't expect people to stop and talk while hunting. And hey, as other people have done you can think to him or track him down in between hunts if you wanted to. He isn't afk, and he does respond to people often enough when they bother.

There's doing something and running off, and doing something at script speed that appears to be an initiation of RP... and then running off. If you (or I) pull someone up off the ground on plane 4 and keep going, no one is expecting any continued RP, or give a nudge or a wave. So I guess your experience is different than mine. Mine is that it's annoying.

[Jeril]

There's doing something and running off, and doing something at script speed that appears to be an initiation of RP... and then running off. If you (or I) pull someone up off the ground on plane 4 and keep going, no one is expecting any continued RP, or give a nudge or a wave. So I guess your experience is different than mine. Mine is that it's annoying.

Even if he slowed it down people would complain because they know he is scripting. It has nothing to do with the actions themselves. Which is my point. And is he just zipping in and out at script speed or did he build in a slight pause? I've been on Teras mostly so I haven't seen the script in action.

Also got this anon neg rep: Thread: Alright you whiners
don't encourage tgo

If you know anything, you know I will do what I want :P

[Archigeek]

Even if he slowed it down people would complain because they know he is scripting. It has nothing to do with the actions themselves. Which is my point. And is he just zipping in and out at script speed or did he build in a slight pause? I've been on Teras mostly so I haven't seen the script in action.

Lots of people script. I don't complain about many of them, but my personal experience was that it was annoying. What other people will complain about I can't speak to. As for only doing it once, I mostly ran into it passing through, which meant he did it most of the time I passed through. I don't much care though, so don't sweat it. You need a high tolerance for annoying things to play Gemstone.

[Back]

As much as Tgo01 loves to script I'm surprised he hasn't applied to be a development GM. I mean... why does he pay Simu so he can write scripts? Why not work for Simu and get some form of compensation for writing scripts while adding to the gaming world.

[Tgo01]

Lots of people script. I don't complain about many of them, but my personal experience was that it was annoying. What other people will complain about I can't speak to. As for only doing it once, I mostly ran into it passing through, which meant he did it most of the time I passed through. I don't much care though, so don't sweat it. You need a high tolerance for annoying things to play Gemstone.

It's not my script then; it only greeted each person once whether they were running through the room or I was running through the room. Unless you meant you saw my characters interacting with other people as you happened to be running through the room.

Someone left me a rep comment that I thought was funny and quite possibly true; they think some people were getting upset because my script addressed the player by name and there is a warning thingie in Bigshot that sounds off an alarm whenever the game sees your character's name so they speculated people were getting upset because they were running Bigshot and kept getting warnings. Wouldn't that just be the height of hypocrisy if that were the case.


As much as Tgo01 loves to script I'm surprised he hasn't applied to be a development GM. I mean... why does he pay Simu so he can write scripts? Why not work for Simu and get some form of compensation for writing scripts while adding to the gaming world.

After all the feathers I have ruffled I doubt we will ever see GSTGO01. Besides I would miss my favorite forum too much.

[Ysamine]

I keep hearing the arguments on both sides and it's clear that their are stark differences on both sides. It seems like the side who thinks "I don't have to interact, I only have to be responsive to the game environment' argument. On the surface sounds like a valid argument. However, consider that responding to the game environment includes responding to other players. Players are very much part of the game environment.

Perhaps that is where the divide lies. Group A does not consider other players as part of the game environment and Group B does. At one time Kaedra was running a script that basically made bread for me every time she saw my character. While her intent was to be helpful, the moment she automated it, I no longer cared for her bread even though it was better than mine. The interaction between our chars became very artificial. In the end I ask that she not run that script because I thought it made her look too robotic. I don't know if she does that still or not and I'm not faulting her for writing such a script. When everyone wants your bread it's easy to think the best way to deal with it is just make sure you never forget it.

Sometimes TGO even when we script things we know are helpful or the nice thing to do, it still misses the mark.

[Tenlaar]

However, consider that responding to the game environment includes responding to other players. Players are very much part of the game environment.

Perhaps that is where the divide lies. Group A does not consider other players as part of the game environment and Group B does.

It doesn't matter what Group A or Group B think. It has been clearly stated many times that players are not the game environment that you have to be responsive to.

[Tgo01]

Sometimes TGO even when we script things we know are helpful or the nice thing to do, it still misses the mark.

And you asked Kaedra not to run that script with you. Honestly when I was visited by the GM last night I was in the middle of updating my script to ignore people who have expressed a problem with my script...the only character of which I am aware of was Taverkin and that's only because he complained about it on the forums and I knew which character was his. Up until I read his message I had no idea anyone actually had a problem with my script because no one bothered to talk to me about it. Someone did tell me once that people were talking about it on lnet with mixed feelings; some people liked the script and some people were wondering why I hadn't been banned yet.

Instead of coming to me personally and saying "This is annoying me, please don't include me in your script" they went straight to the forums/GMs to get me to stop running the script altogether. Surely you can see the stark differences between your request of Kaedra to stop including you in her script and people demanding GMs to get me to stop running my script for everyone.

[Tgo01]

It doesn't matter what Group A or Group B think. It has been clearly stated many times that players are not the game environment that you have to be responsive to.

Exactly. In fact recently someone complained on the forums about one of my characters because he rested in a spot he did and my character never responded to him. He took this to mean I was afk scripting even though the only thing he ever saw my character do was enter the room, spell himself up, and leave the room; none of which is against the rules even if I were afk scripting.

Honestly a lot of times he was talking to me I really was afk and after a while I thought it was kind of like a running gag to see him and his friends always try to interact with my character whenever he entered the room and my character never spoke back.

I think it's the wrong direction to take the game to force people to talk to other people.

[Laviticas]

I have a half-krol character that won't speak anything but krolvin and will not acknowledge any race that has elven blood. So now the RP snobs are going after other forms of RP. To be honest that sounds exactly what we are dealing with, RP snobs who frankly for the most part suck at RP or cockblock any one who is not in their little snob group.

[Archigeek]

It's not my script then; it only greeted each person once whether they were running through the room or I was running through the room. Unless you meant you saw my characters interacting with other people as you happened to be running through the room.

Someone left me a rep comment that I thought was funny and quite possibly true; they think some people were getting upset because my script addressed the player by name and there is a warning thingie in Bigshot that sounds off an alarm whenever the game sees your character's name so they speculated people were getting upset because they were running Bigshot and kept getting warnings. Wouldn't that just be the height of hypocrisy if that were the case.

By passing through, I mean on my way to another area, not hunting the same area. Like I said though, it's not that big a deal to me so don't sweat it. It's a minor thing. I'm more annoyed by your need to post 300 times a day than by your script. And yes, it would be irony if not hypocrisy if people scripting were annoyed because your script was setting off a Bigshot warning.

Of all the scripts I've seen, the most annoying is when someone runs a script to pick up all the loot during an invasion, when they're in a group of a dozen people, loads up and leaves, then comes back and does it again. But really, that's just bad manners. It's not the script's fault that someone doesn't have the decency to turn it off in that situation.

[prance1520]

I've never seen the script in action, but all I can picture in my head is the scene from Airplane where Leslie Nielson keeps coming into the cockpit and saying "I just wanna tell you both: good luck. We're all counting on you."

[Gelston]

And now the hunter who become the hunted becomes the hunter... Again.

[Haldrik]

Hmm, setting off big shot and other afk scripters alarms. Sounds like something Taverkin would do.

[Haldrik]

Thread: Alright you whiners
i know you have zero obligation to wipe your sharty crack, but there is something to be said for common courtesy.

Lol. You people are fucking stupid. Not interacting is in itself RP. Not having "common courtesy" is fucking rp. Instead of being whiney bitches and apparently trying to force "common courtesy" on people, you just fucking RP the situation. Someone rude? Blast them in the face. Ignoring you? Tackle. Use your fucking imaginations you dumb fucks.

And fuck you Taverkin you shart spewing neg repper. You shit cycle so much your ass must be bleeding 24/7.

[Candor]

Thread: Alright you whiners
i know you have zero obligation to wipe your sharty crack, but there is something to be said for common courtesy.

Lol. You people are fucking stupid. Not interacting is in itself RP. Not having "common courtesy" is fucking rp. Instead of being whiney bitches and apparently trying to force "common courtesy" on people, you just fucking RP the situation. Someone rude? Blast them in the face. Ignoring you? Tackle. Use your fucking imaginations you dumb fucks.

And fuck you Taverkin you shart spewing neg repper. You shit cycle so much your ass must be bleeding 24/7.

Give it a rest please. The world does not revolve around you.

[JackWhisper]

Yeah. Be careful, or Candor will tattle on you to the person the world DOES revolve around.

Nominations?

[JackWhisper]

And, for the record, I find TGO's script hilarious. And this is coming from a guy who leveled a character from zero to 82 *then I quit, went to college* using the ACT verb to "write sentences in sand" because of a horrific troll invasion that murdered his family and ate his tongue. RP snobs bashed me constantly. Fuck them, TGO. I say rock the boat.

[Soulance]

I keep hearing the arguments on both sides and it's clear that their are stark differences on both sides. It seems like the side who thinks "I don't have to interact, I only have to be responsive to the game environment' argument. On the surface sounds like a valid argument. However, consider that responding to the game environment includes responding to other players. Players are very much part of the game environment.
It also can seem like Group A wants to play a character how they want to play a character. Group B wants the person to play their character the way Group B wants them to play their character. "You can only play our game if you play it they way I like you to play it." - is how it comes off at times.

[Soulance]

It's not my script then; it only greeted each person once whether they were running through the room or I was running through the room. Unless you meant you saw my characters interacting with other people as you happened to be running through the room.


I think it's the wrong direction to take the game to force people to talk to other people.
And when people complained Tgo/scripters are robots and don't have conversations or interact, he made interactions which then became annoying to others and was asked to stop. Did we go to extremes on each side of the pendulum? Perhaps. Maybe it will fall into the middle someday.

What really makes me laugh is that all of this started because Tgo said he didn't appreciate how he was scolded when replying to a script check which he passed almost immediately if that was true. Yet here we are, some
"1!111one!1eleventy 1...1!" posts later talking about scripters. Fun times.

[Soulance]

Shart shart shart all day long. Shart shart while you cry a little song.
This one is my favorite so far. Well done Shart-Repper, well done!

[Wrathbringer]

This one is my favorite so far. Well done Shart-Repper, well done!

That wasn't me, just so you know. Apparently I started a trend. A new age is upon us!

[Neovik1]

New greeting for your script: beep boop bop bop beep boop. Then stare at them awkwardly for 12 seconds and then March off.

[Atlanteax]

As much as Tgo01 loves to script I'm surprised he hasn't applied to be a development GM. I mean... why does he pay Simu so he can write scripts? Why not work for Simu and get some form of compensation for writing scripts while adding to the gaming world.

SIMU only hires perpetual brown-nosers of questionable skill (there has been the rare exceptions).
Talented players with skills that would genuinely contribute to game development are passed over, because they would make the existing SGMs (and higher) appear relatively incompetent.

[Kithus]

SIMU only hires perpetual brown-nosers of questionable skill (there has been the rare exceptions).
Talented players with skills that would genuinely contribute to game development are passed over, because they would make the existing SGMs (and higher) appear relatively incompetent.

Or... he just hasn't applied. This is a really offensive over-generalization of the present Dev team. There are some very talented people there who have worked hard to make our game better.

[Soulance]

That wasn't me, just so you know. Apparently I started a trend. A new age is upon us!
Awwww, just a copycat sharter. That's too bad, I wanted real sharts.

[Wrathbringer]

Awwww, just a copycat sharter. That's too bad, I wanted real sharts.

Yeah, the copycat shart reps aren't worth nearly what the authentic ones are on the open market. People want the real thing.

[Silvean]

Are RP snobs a major problem? I know I am not one and if I've run up against any, I didn't give it much thought.

[Buckwheet]

Are RP snobs a major problem? I know I am not one and if I've run up against any, I didn't give it much thought.

Depends. The old Solhaven crew was obnoxious as crap. Some of the players in Vaalor are also pretty annoying.

[Ysamine]

It doesn't matter what Group A or Group B think. It has been clearly stated many times that players are not the game environment that you have to be responsive to.

Actually, GM Wyrom responded to as post that asked the question about whether or not players were part of the game environment. His response was "You are."

I'd say that was a pretty clear answer.

If you could show me where it was clearly stated that other players are not the environment, I'd like to read it. I've never seen anything that suggested this was the case.

[Buckwheet]

Can't you just warn interact everyone and then you don't have to interact with them? That by its nature would mean you don't have to respond to players.

[Kithus]

Actually, GM Wyrom responded to as post that asked the question about whether or not players were part of the game environment. His response was "You are."

I'd say that was a pretty clear answer.

If you could show me where it was clearly stated that other players are not the environment, I'd like to read it. I've never seen anything that suggested this was the case.

This strikes me as wrong. I am asking for clarification on the officials.

[Ysamine]

If you want to look up the post for yourself its post 10317 in The Bad and The Ugly (complaints folder) on the official folder. I didn't make it up.

I'm more interested to see where it has ever been stated that other players were not considered part of the environment.

[Methais]

I guess for me I just don't understand why it's difficult to understand that there is a difference between entering canned lines into a script and interaction. Is that really a distinction that you don't understand?Honestly, I'm thinking you folks who keep saying this must be joking? But we've had this argument before. We aren't changing any minds on either side. And I suppose it's possible that neither side is truly capable of understanding the perspective of the other. I really don't get how this form of scripting is "interaction" to you.

I have like 10 pages of more arguing to read in this thread, but I'm genuinely curious...why do TGO's canned lines bother you so much?

[Gelston]

If you want to look up the post for yourself its post 10317 in The Bad and The Ugly (complaints folder) on the official folder. I didn't make it up.

I'm more interested to see where it has ever been stated that other players were not considered part of the environment.

You will not get a warning for refusing to interact with players. I don't care what you think.

[Methais]

I think you're not quite understanding. It wouldn't be the same if someone was really initiating RP, because if someone wasn't scripting, they'd wait around for an answer when they initiated RP. It's retarded and annoying. He says something, maybe casts 401 at you, and bolts off in usual script-speed fashion, before you can say so much as thank you. After a half dozen times I just ignored it. Thank God I haven't hunted in the same area where he's run that script, as if I had that repeatedly it would really start to give me a headache.

I've done similar things plenty of times. Though it's usually me screaming or shrieking at someone before running off instead of a one liner.

No complaints yet. Maybe a few "wtf is wrong with that guy?" but no complaints that I'm aware of, at least not to any GMs.

I'll also run into a room, rapid fire disk the entire room which scrolls the fuck out of things if there are a lot of people there, and then ran off.

People don't seem to mind that of course since it benefits them. Unless they already have a disk, then they'd probably bitch about screen scroll.

Dicks.



If you (or I) pull someone up off the ground on plane 4 and keep going, no one is expecting any continued RP, or give a nudge or a wave.

If I pull someone up they'd better spend the next 5 minutes thanking me or I'm reporting them.


or listening to Smashing Pumpkins...

They really need to update policy to include this.

Someone make a thread on the officials.


If you know anything, you know I will do what I want :P

Just ask poor little Billy!


After all the feathers I have ruffled I doubt we will ever see GSTGO01. Besides I would miss my favorite forum too much.

Just make another account and use this for your avatar and say it's you:

http://platechina20.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/rock-hard-abs-2-475.jpg


Surely you can see the stark differences between your request of Kaedra to stop including you in her script and people demanding GMs to get me to stop running my script for everyone.

I'm officially requesting that you run that script with me. I'm on the mainland this weekend too, so if I see you in the rift and your script doesn't speak to me, I'm reporting you for not doing what I say.


Exactly. In fact recently someone complained on the forums about one of my characters because he rested in a spot he did and my character never responded to him. He took this to mean I was afk scripting even though the only thing he ever saw my character do was enter the room, spell himself up, and leave the room; none of which is against the rules even if I were afk scripting.

Honestly a lot of times he was talking to me I really was afk and after a while I thought it was kind of like a running gag to see him and his friends always try to interact with my character whenever he entered the room and my character never spoke back.

I think it's the wrong direction to take the game to force people to talk to other people.

Make a script that whenever someone speaks to you, you respond with some shit like,

TG DUDE yells, "Could you repeat that please, sonny? I'M A BIT HARD OF HEARING!"

(TG DUDE cups his hand around his ear in a futile attempt to hear better.)

Since it says futile attempt, that justifies you never hearing them and you should get RPAs.


I've never seen the script in action, but all I can picture in my head is the scene from Airplane where Leslie Nielson keeps coming into the cockpit and saying "I just wanna tell you both: good luck. We're all counting on you."

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/20/db/d5/20dbd53a24e23b5bd93426b6ea1eac90.jpg

[Soulance]

This strikes me as wrong. I am asking for clarification on the officials.
Did they remove it? Shows up on my browser but then says "Cannot find this post."

[Methais]

You know now that I think about it, most of the people whining about this are probably this person:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrtSvCPaygs

[Ysamine]

You will not get a warning for refusing to interact with players. I don't care what you think.

No, but not reacting to the environment created by other players might create the impression that you are AFK, even if you aren't.

Look I don't go around reporting every person I see scripting. I use scripts too.

Are you saying only something for which you can be warned is the bar for whether or not you are responsive to the environment?

[Kithus]

Are you saying only something for which you can be warned is the bar for whether or not you are responsive to the environment?

I think the concern is a combination of Wyrom saying players are "part of the game environment" and Policy 18 stating we have to be responsive to the "game environment." While I do not believe Wyrom meant to suggest we have to be responsive to players it leaves a really nasty grey area in Policy 18 that I'm not comfortable with.

[Gelston]

No, but not reacting to the environment created by other players might create the impression that you are AFK, even if you aren't.

Look I don't go around reporting every person I see scripting. I use scripts too.

Are you saying only something for which you can be warned is the bar for whether or not you are responsive to the environment?

That is never in doubt, because I imagine it is probably players reporting people who they think are AFK scripting that cause the most script checks. Still, it is failure to respond to script checks, not failure to respond to other players, that matters.

[Sorcasaurus]

Are you saying only something for which you can be warned is the bar for whether or not you are responsive to the environment?

Yes, that is a fairly sound definition of a rule/policy. A line that if you cross, can carry official consequences.

People seem to be confusing manners with policy. Is it nice if we all react to one another? Some people think so, but it's not a requirement of any policy.

[Hightower]

I think the concern is a combination of Wyrom saying players are "part of the game environment" and Policy 18 stating we have to be responsive to the "game environment." While I do not believe Wyrom meant to suggest we have to be responsive to players it leaves a really nasty grey area in Policy 18 that I'm not comfortable with.

Players can't script check you and they aren't part of the script checking process. All he's doing is restating the obvious: That if you appear to other players to be a bot, a team of bots, or especially a team of bots making a poor attempt to appear to be something other than a team of bots, you're likely to draw the sort of attention you don't want. There's nothing gray about it. He's fine with coming after you for that, whether you pass every check or not. And the more you get reported, the more they will focus on you and check you.

That may not be a policy we can all agree with, but I don't think it's very gray. He's coming after you. He wants you to cease the behavior or drive you out of town.

~Taverkin

[Buckwheet]

Players can't script check you and they aren't part of the script checking process. All he's doing is restating the obvious: That if you appear to other players to be a bot, a team of bots, or especially a team of bots making a poor attempt to appear to be something other than a team of bots, you're likely to draw the sort of attention you don't want. There's nothing gray about it. He's fine with coming after you for that, whether you pass every check or not. And the more you get reported, the more they will focus on you and check you.

That may not be a policy we can all agree with, but I don't think it's very gray. He's coming after you. He wants you to cease the behavior or drive you out of town.

~Taverkin

People should talk to you non-stop and when you leave/walk away report you for not interacting!

[subzero]

This one is my favorite so far. Well done Shart-Repper, well done!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=injwk69a8xA

[Atlanteax]

SIMU only hires perpetual brown-nosers of questionable skill (there has been the rare exceptions).
Talented players with skills that would genuinely contribute to game development are passed over, because they would make the existing SGMs (and higher) appear relatively incompetent.


Or... he just hasn't applied. This is a really offensive over-generalization of the present Dev team. There are some very talented people there who have worked hard to make our game better.

Like I said, there has been the exception.

But you apparently vastly underestimated how much 'politics' there are with the development of the game, as it tends to take up absurd majority of bandwidth, with an underwhelming amount of actual development occurring.

[Back]

SIMU only hires perpetual brown-nosers of questionable skill (there has been the rare exceptions).
Talented players with skills that would genuinely contribute to game development are passed over, because they would make the existing SGMs (and higher) appear relatively incompetent.

Jesus. Got an axe to grind? Did Simu break up with you by sleeping with someone else? You sound like a jealous ex.

[Buckwheet]

Jesus. Got an axe to grind? Did Simu break up with you by sleeping with someone else? You sound like a jealous ex.

That is a pretty common thread around Gemstone in general. The sleeping with GMs or other people. I mean how many times has this come up? Welcome to Gemstone.

[Methais]

Actually, GM Wyrom responded to as post that asked the question about whether or not players were part of the game environment. His response was "You are."

I'd say that was a pretty clear answer.

If you could show me where it was clearly stated that other players are not the environment, I'd like to read it. I've never seen anything that suggested this was the case.

Helga is part of the environment too, but nobody is required to respond to her.

The only people you're required to respond to is a GM that's script checking you.

If people were required to respond to other players, people would be banned just for being afk while at Jolly Donuts taking a 2 hour shit.


Can't you just warn interact everyone and then you don't have to interact with them? That by its nature would mean you don't have to respond to players.

http://www.gameinformer.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer-Discussions-Components-Files/31/4503.end_2D00_of_2D00_thread_5F00_do_2D00_not_2D00 _post_2D00_more.jpg

[Tenlaar]

If you want to look up the post for yourself its post 10317 in The Bad and The Ugly (complaints folder) on the official folder. I didn't make it up.

I'm more interested to see where it has ever been stated that other players were not considered part of the environment.

Wyrom's statement goes against literally every single NIR post on the subject I have ever seen. Including a post earlier on the very same day he posted it...




Reply Reply
If you suspect someone is AFK scripting all you need to do is report. It is up to the GM to determine if they are AFK, not the players. You also should not repeatedly locate/follow/harass the person you think is AFK. That just causes more issued for the GM to have to deal with. Report and go on your merry way.

You will not hear what the outcome was, sorry. A GM will never discuss another player/character with you. You just need to trust that we determined the person was AFK and followed policy or they were not and they are doing what they should. It may not be what YOU want them to do, but if they are responsive to us, then they are good.

~ Valyrka ~
Ta'Illistim
Elves
Dark Elves
Sylvans
Half Elves

[Ysamine]

Not closed, but good try.

I'm still waiting for someone to point me to where 'clearly states' that our characters are not part of the game environment.

[Latrinsorm]

Yes, GMs are authority figures. This means at times they have to pull people aside, slap them upside the head and say, "Seriously dude?! WTF?!"

They basically do this after they approve a name that has been bad named; people who bad name that name in the future get an automatic response stating "We investigated this name already, leave us alone."

Sometimes being an authority figure means making hard, but correct, choices. It doesn't mean you cave in to the demands of a small vocal minority because they are the best whiners any online game has ever seen.We are agreed: GMs shouldn't kowtow to the small, vocal minority of unresponsive scripters.
Even if he slowed it down people would complain because they know he is scripting. It has nothing to do with the actions themselves.Based on what? I've read every Tgo post and I don't even know who his characters are. It is more plausible that there are more people who actually find his actions annoying than people who are stalking his whole life.

[Tenlaar]

I'm still waiting for someone to point me to where 'clearly states' that our characters are not part of the game environment.



You will not hear what the outcome was, sorry. A GM will never discuss another player/character with you. You just need to trust that we determined the person was AFK and followed policy or they were not and they are doing what they should. It may not be what YOU want them to do, but if they are responsive to us, then they are good.

~ Valyrka ~

There you go.

[Atlanteax]

SIMU only hires perpetual brown-nosers of questionable skill (there has been the rare exceptions).
Talented players with skills that would genuinely contribute to game development are passed over, because they would make the existing SGMs (and higher) appear relatively incompetent.


Jesus. Got an axe to grind? Did Simu break up with you by sleeping with someone else? You sound like a jealous ex.

Or rather, it is the truth behind the curtain.

[Kithus]

Unfortunately APM Wyrom outranks Valyrka. If he says PCs are part of the "Game Environment" and Policy 18 states we have to be responsive to the "Game Environment" then technically we are required by policy to be responsive to PCs. I doubt that was his intention but let's get it cleared up before whatever GM TG imagines has a hard-on for him uses it against him. ;)

[Ysamine]

There you go.

That statement is in reference to script checks, of which also point to the reason you would report is because another player is unresponsive to your character.

Look dude, just spend 1/4 as much time playing the game as you do scripting it. There is a big difference between playing and watching. The sad part is you don't even see yourself as missing out on anything.

*every use of the word 'you' here is meant the in the most generic sense possible.

[Methais]

Unfortunately APM Wyrom outranks Valyrka. If he says PCs are part of the "Game Environment" and Policy 18 states we have to be responsive to the "Game Environment" then technically we are required by policy to be responsive to PCs. I doubt that was his intention but let's get it cleared up before whatever GM TG imagines has a hard-on for him uses it against him. ;)

If that were the case, the entire GS population would be 0 because everybody would be banned sooner or later.

[Sorcasaurus]

Or rather, it is the truth behind the curtain.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-N1g0JS8WWEY/UUHNDJ0hhYI/AAAAAAAABpg/6bGD349HL9c/s1600/Oz+the+Great+and+Powerful.JPG

[Sorcasaurus]

Unfortunately APM Wyrom outranks Valyrka. If he says PCs are part of the "Game Environment" and Policy 18 states we have to be responsive to the "Game Environment" then technically we are required by policy to be responsive to PCs. I doubt that was his intention but let's get it cleared up before whatever GM TG imagines has a hard-on for him uses it against him. ;)

Non action can be a chosen response.

[Methais]

That statement is in reference to script checks, of which also point to the reason you would report is because another player is unresponsive to your character.

Nobody is required to be responsive to other players in any situation. If that results in the other person thinking that person is afk scripting and they get reported and they pass the GM's script check, that person is free to keep being unresponsive to other players all they want.

If players were required to be responsive to other players, then you could technically do shit like...

[Town Square Central]
Fat empaths everywhere. And a well.
Obvious exists: north, south, east, west, northeast, northwest, southwest, southeast

Speaking to Fat Empath, you ask, "Can you heal me?"

(empath is unresponsive because they're afk snorting coke)

>REPORT OMG I'M IN TSC ASKING THIS FAT EMPATH FOR HEALING AND THEY'RE IGNORING ME PLEASE DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know why you're not understanding this concept, unless you're just purposefully being obtuse and playing semantics for the sole purpose of playing semantics.

[Tenlaar]

I don't know why you're not understanding this concept, unless you're just purposefully being obtuse and playing semantics for the sole purpose of playing semantics.


Look dude, just spend 1/4 as much time playing the game as you do scripting it. There is a big difference between playing and watching. The sad part is you don't even see yourself as missing out on anything.

They are clearly another one of those "you're playing my game wrong" people.

[Ysamine]

Nobody is required to be responsive to other players in any situation. If that results in the other person thinking that person is afk scripting and they get reported and they pass the GM's script check, that person is free to keep being unresponsive to other players all they want.

If players were required to be responsive to other players, then you could technically do shit like...

[Town Square Central]
Fat empaths everywhere. And a well.
Obvious exists: north, south, east, west, northeast, northwest, southwest, southeast

Speaking to Fat Empath, you ask, "Can you heal me?"

(empath is unresponvie)

>REPORT OMG I'M IN TSC ASKING THIS FAT EMPATH FOR HEALING AND THEY'RE IGNORING ME PLEASE DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know why you're not understanding this concept, unless you're just purposefully being obtuse and playing semantics for the sole purpose of playing semantics.

The sad truth is that this is what is happening probably looks more like this:

There are 12 people sitting in TC and someone walks in and says, "Is there anyone healing?" and not a single one responds in any way. Player 1 grabs player 2 and runs off. Player 3 heals a scar by casting, Players 4,5 and 6 chew herbs off the bench. Player 7, 8, and 9 are spelling up and the rest are just standing there.

Five minutes later the player reports "WTF, Town Square is full of zombies. Does anyone even play anymore?"

[Buckwheet]

The sad truth is that this is what is happening probably looks more like this:

There are 12 people sitting in TC and someone walks in and says, "Is there anyone healing?" and not a single one responds in any way. Player 1 grabs player 2 and runs off. Player 3 heals a scar by casting, Players 4,5 and 6 chew herbs off the bench. Player 7, 8, and 9 are spelling up and the rest are just standing there.

Five minutes later the player reports "WTF, Town Square is full of zombies. Does anyone even play anymore?"

I don't see anything wrong with that scenario. The one player you indicated as being a possible healer might not like touching people so they chose not to heal anyone else, and they also might be blind and deaf and only use their nose to smell the beasts they are currently hunting. Sounds plausible to me.

[Tgo01]

Actually, GM Wyrom responded to as post that asked the question about whether or not players were part of the game environment. His response was "You are."

I'd say that was a pretty clear answer.

I think you're misunderstanding Wyrom's post. I think Wyrom didn't want to give the impression that players aren't important to the game and that they don't affect story lines and quests and RP and such, which is exactly what the person who asked the question mentioned, so Wyrom said that players are indeed part of the game environment. He did not mean they are part of the game environment that players have to respond to.

Here is a log I had with another GM where she clearly stated I (and I'm assuming everyone else) are under no obligation to interact with other players:


Also here: GameMaster Kynlee
Obvious paths: north, south

Kynlee says, "I just want to make sure, beyond any doubt, that you know that your scripting is seen as very disruptive by other players."

You say, "Okay."

Also here: GameMaster Kynlee

Kynlee says, "We get reports of poaching, screen scroll, disruptive movements on pretty much a daily basis."

Kynlee says, "If others are in the area, please just be aware."
You nod.

You say, "I don't poach."

Kynlee says, "You have."

You say, "Unless they're hiding without a disk."

You say, "Then there's not much I can od."

Kynlee says, "We've watched people try and talk to you, and you just go on."

Kynlee shrugs.

You ask, "I don't have to talk to anyone do I?"

Kynlee asks, "If you poach their kill and call you on it?"

Kynlee says, "No, but it'd be the nice thing to do."

Kynlee says, "It at least lets them know you're not afk."

Kynlee says, "But that's up to you."

You turn towards Kynlee and render a sharp salute with your black orase staff.

Kynlee waves.
You wave.

[Kithus]

I think you're misunderstanding Wyrom's post. I think Wyrom didn't want to give the impression that players aren't important to the game and that they don't affect story lines and quests and RP and such, which is exactly what the person who asked the question mentioned, so Wyrom said that players are indeed part of the game environment. He did not mean they are part of the game environment that players have to respond to.

Here is a log I had with another GM where she clearly stated I (and I'm assuming everyone else) are under no obligation to interact with other players:

You're absolutely right TG but a vindictive GM could use that statement from the APM against you unless he clarifies it!

[Methais]

The sad truth is that this is what is happening probably looks more like this:

There are 12 people sitting in TC and someone walks in and says, "Is there anyone healing?" and not a single one responds in any way. Player 1 grabs player 2 and runs off. Player 3 heals a scar by casting, Players 4,5 and 6 chew herbs off the bench. Player 7, 8, and 9 are spelling up and the rest are just standing there.

Five minutes later the player reports "WTF, Town Square is full of zombies. Does anyone even play anymore?"

What policy is being broken in that situation, and who is breaking it, and what are they doing/not doing that breaks said policy though?


I don't see anything wrong with that scenario. The one player you indicated as being a possible healer might not like touching people so they chose not to heal anyone else, and they also might be blind and deaf and only use their nose to smell the beasts they are currently hunting. Sounds plausible to me.

Healing down with a script isn't against any rules anyway, afk or not, since it doesn't grant you any exp/money/skills, etc.


Kynlee log about people whining about Tgo's scripts

Go the extra mile. Have a wizard (or yours if you have one, since all MA crews have one) stack 4 hours of rapid fire on your pures and go script hunting with that.

[Kalishar]

What policy is being broken in that situation, and who is breaking it, and what are they doing/not doing that breaks said policy though?

The policy of ME FIRST (or else!) that many people have, particularly a few posters in this thread.

[RichardCranium]

Are RP snobs a major problem? I know I am not one and if I've run up against any, I didn't give it much thought.

You were actually the one who turned me on to consistent roleplay during a chance encounter in the crypts. You guided me around and explained the history of Bandur Etrevion. I want to say that was back in the late 90s.

[Ysamine]

Kynlee nailed it right here:

Kynlee says, "It at least lets them know you're not afk."

This alone would be enough prevent someone from actually reporting you for being AFK when you are not. It is really so hard to grasp why interaction with your fellow players while not required should not be ignored outright?

[Methais]

Kynlee nailed it right here:

Kynlee says, "It at least lets them know you're not afk."

This alone would be enough prevent someone from actually reporting you for being AFK when you are not. It is really so hard to grasp why interaction with your fellow players while not required should not be ignored outright?

Nobody is denying that. It's actually been said a few times in this thread already. But it still doesn't mean that there's some rule saying you have to be responsive to other players.

[Buckwheet]

Those scenarios played out over and over again are probably the biggest contributor to a lack of player attrition. ~ Ysamine (Yes, I sign my rep)

What does that have to do with anything related to the topic? I think you meant...a contributor TO player attrition not a lack of because of a lack of would mean nobody is leaving because of it. So yes I tend to agree with you!

That being said, you know what else contributes to attrition? The cost of the sub and lack of development. So what? We aren't having a discussion around why Gemstone is bleeding customers.

[Ysamine]

I never said there was a rule. I only said that the divide among the poster here seemed to fall along that line.

[Tenlaar]

I never said there was a rule.

You kind of tried to, though.

[Hightower]

I agree 100% that we are under no obligation to respond to or communicate with other players. But also recognize that players can usually tell who is botting and who is not and Wyrom seems to be of the opinion that it wouldn't be such a bad thing to give botters a tougher time. The players in this sense are his eyes and ears. They REPORT, the GMs investigate. I can understand how you would feel that you're being targeted in that sense (you are!), but claiming that this amounts to "forcing" anyone to respond to other players is nonsensical. What they're trying to force you to do is to stop botting by making it no longer worth your while to do so. I think that's what Wyrom's clarifications on policy and enforcement have been all about.

~Taverkin

[Kithus]

You kind of tried to, though.

No, to be fair I twisted what she said to relate to Policy 18. All she's said is that PCs are part of the game environment.

[Ysamine]

What does that have to do with anything related to the topic? I think you meant...a contributor TO player attrition not a lack of because of a lack of would mean nobody is leaving because of it. So yes I tend to agree with you!

That being said, you know what else contributes to attrition? The cost of the sub and lack of development. So what? We aren't having a discussion around why Gemstone is bleeding customers.

Thanks for correcting me on that. You are right, I meant to say this type of attitude is what drives players away. Things that drive other players away is definitely in line with the discussion we were having here.

[subzero]

Look dude, just spend 1/4 as much time playing the game as you do scripting it. There is a big difference between playing and watching.


You people are amazing. What difference is it to you if he 'watches' or 'plays'? Let me make it easy and answer that for you... it makes zero difference how he's doing whatever he's doing. You badass, leet rp people seem to have a huge issue getting over this little thing we call OOC knowledge when it comes to scripters. You've got a horribly feeble mind if you can't work past that.

I don't understand how any of you assholes that are able to immerse yourselves so much into the game that X or Y is 'jarring' and ruining your game experience are so capable of claiming that deep immersion yet you're too feeble to either ignore something you don't like or, I dunno, maybe just keep the OOC knowledge out of it and you can run along assuming that person you just encountered was/is crazy, just got their bell rung, etc.

NOOOOPE! Let's not do any of that. Let's be like a bunch of little kids and go tattle to the teacher cause Johnny is running around in a circle over there and it's really fucking up your train of thought.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m71v9qmeB30


The sad part is you don't even see yourself as missing out on anything.

Ya know, I think the real sad part is that some of you seem to think that everyone should do as you do and should get the same exact thing from the game that you do. How can you tell someone else they're 'missing out' on something? Maybe they don't give a shit about whatever you feel they're missing out on. This will undoubtedly be a real shock to you, but we're not all in things for the same reason.

[Latrinsorm]

You people are amazing. What difference is it to you if he 'watches' or 'plays'? Let me make it easy and answer that for you... it makes zero difference how he's doing whatever he's doing. You badass, leet rp people seem to have a huge issue getting over this little thing we call OOC knowledge when it comes to scripters. You've got a horribly feeble mind if you can't work past that.

I don't understand how any of you assholes that are able to immerse yourselves so much into the game that X or Y is 'jarring' and ruining your game experience are so capable of claiming that deep immersion yet you're too feeble to either ignore something you don't like or, I dunno, maybe just keep the OOC knowledge out of it and you can run along assuming that person you just encountered was/is crazy, just got their bell rung, etc.

NOOOOPE! Let's not do any of that. Let's be like a bunch of little kids and go tattle to the teacher cause Johnny is running around in a circle over there and it's really fucking up your train of thought.It is telling that people of your ilk have to resort to disparaging the other side.

[Tgo01]

Based on what?

Based on several people flat out saying they have a problem with me running scripts.

I've been playing this game (not this GS game, this game of trying to appease the whiners) for a while now. People said I was moving through areas too fast so I slowed my characters down; heck I even really slowed my Rogue down by having him sneak through each room which resulted in a 1 second RT per room and saving the poor sensibilities of others by not having to see him move through each room. Then they started complaining that my characters acted like mindless zombies so I was like...well fuck slowing my characters down, they are still bitching, but I figured I could at least make it look like my characters aren't mindless zombies so I added random greetings to my scripts. People bitched about that and even went as far as to say my scripts were "making a mockery" of the game.

People have bitched that my character was sitting in a node minding his own business.


It is more plausible that there are more people who actually find his actions annoying than people who are stalking his whole life.

No, I actually think it is more to do with stalking.

I'll be perfectly honest; I think part of the reason Taverkin started this big stink was because he felt I had duped him. He was one of the many people who responded to my random greetings; either by finding me later in game, thinking to me on the thoughtnet or chatting to me via lich. I replied to him (not a script, an actual response from lil' ol' me :O) like I always did to people who responded to my random greetings. I think he then found out by reading my posts on here that the random greetings were all part of a script and that I was the one behind the characters and that angered him. He practically even admitted as much as the official forums:


Alright, we've talked AFK/inattenative and automated scripting to death, but this is a new development to me. It's bad enough we have folks who are running multiple accounts on automated scripts expressly for the purpose of gathering silver to sell for cash. But now you're working "roleplay" into your scripts? That's crossing another line with me. I know you think you're terribly clever (and even joke about this on the unofficials!), but you're making a mockery of the game.

What I'm talking about are bots on scripts, quickly running through the room and firing off IC speech to other players. Not cool. I don't care if your butt is in the chair or not.

~Taverkin


Not to pick nits tgo, but "interaction" takes two. When I stop and talk to you, then wait for a response, that is interacting.

As someone else mentioned, interacting with an automated system - even if it responds - is not the sort of interaction most of us are interested in.

I don't care if it's strictly against policy or not. As I said, I think it makes a mockery of the game. Even worse because of the multi - account botting for cash.

There is no talKing your way around this.

Taverkin

So actually, yes, yes I do believe this is a case of someone who had a problem with this once they found out it was me and not so much that they found the actions themselves annoying.

[Tgo01]

Go the extra mile. Have a wizard (or yours if you have one, since all MA crews have one) stack 4 hours of rapid fire on your pures and go script hunting with that.

That's actually not a bad idea. Sure would make my hunts go faster at least.


Kynlee nailed it right here:

Kynlee says, "It at least lets them know you're not afk."

This alone would be enough prevent someone from actually reporting you for being AFK when you are not. It is really so hard to grasp why interaction with your fellow players while not required should not be ignored outright?

Now you're conflating two different issues.

[Methais]

I never said there was a rule. I only said that the divide among the poster here seemed to fall along that line.

Not really. The only time I ignore people is if I'm afk, and if I'm afk I'm either hidden or invisible, which means I never ignore anybody unless they're talking to me on lnet while I'm afk.

I also don't script hunt.


Those scenarios played out over and over again are probably the biggest contributor to a lack of player attrition. ~ Ysamine (Yes, I sign my rep)

In addition to what Buckwheet said (sub costs, lack of dev), another huge reason has been the playerbase being spread out way too much, which started with EN's release and the RR boot removal. The population was still significantly higher then than it is now, but having it take forever to travel anywhere that isn't between Landing/Icemule/Solhaven is still a heavy contributor.

It's kind of similar to the way that spreading everyone out so much ruined player locksmiths. Most people go to the NPC locksmith now because there aren't enough lockpickers, especially at cap, (this is even worse on Teras because it's the most secluded area in the game with its 10 hour boat schedules and all) and rogues don't train in picking nearly as much anymore because there's not enough people to keep them with a steady supply of boxes like there used to be in the East Tower days, which results in less interaction, which results in more people getting bored with the game and quitting.

It's like an endless cycle of fail.

[subzero]

It is telling that people of your ilk have to resort to disparaging the other side.

I'd try a good firm pimp-slap if it weren't for these internet tubes separating all of us.

[Latrinsorm]

Based on several people flat out saying they have a problem with me running scripts.Several out of how many? You can't assume an entire population agrees with the statements of a few. I mean you can, because you're a Republican, but it's not empirically sound.

[Wrathbringer]

That's actually not a bad idea. Sure would make my hunts go faster at least.



Now you're conflating two different issues.

Why don't you just go to shattered?

[Ysamine]

You people are amazing. What difference is it to you if he 'watches' or 'plays'? Let me make it easy and answer that for you... it makes zero difference how he's doing whatever he's doing. You badass, leet rp people seem to have a huge issue getting over this little thing we call OOC knowledge when it comes to scripters. You've got a horribly feeble mind if you can't work past that.

I don't understand how any of you assholes that are able to immerse yourselves so much into the game that X or Y is 'jarring' and ruining your game experience are so capable of claiming that deep immersion yet you're too feeble to either ignore something you don't like or, I dunno, maybe just keep the OOC knowledge out of it and you can run along assuming that person you just encountered was/is crazy, just got their bell rung, etc.

NOOOOPE! Let's not do any of that. Let's be like a bunch of little kids and go tattle to the teacher cause Johnny is running around in a circle over there and it's really fucking up your train of thought.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m71v9qmeB30



Ya know, I think the real sad part is that some of you seem to think that everyone should do as you do and should get the same exact thing from the game that you do. How can you tell someone else they're 'missing out' on something? Maybe they don't give a shit about whatever you feel they're missing out on. This will undoubtedly be a real shock to you, but we're not all in things for the same reason.

Um...thanks for contributing?

Also since odds are you don't know or play with any of my characters on a consistent basis, any assumptions you might make about my RP leetness (or weakness as the case may be) are just that..assumptions.

The only point I really wanted to make is that in general its a bad idea to be non-responsive to other players. Further, this is not just bad for the player being ignored, it's bad for the game overall.

[Soulance]

Several out of how many? You can't assume an entire population agrees with the statements of a few. I mean you can, because you're a Republican, but it's not empirically sound.
You are sounding a bit like Solomon on the Officials here. He said several, not all which seems to be where you're trying to point this.
And it's the ones that count most, the vocal several. I would bet MOST people in game don't even pay attention and have no idea any of this is even going on.

[Latrinsorm]

You are sounding a bit like Solomon on the Officials here. He said several, not all which seems to be where you're trying to point this.
And it's the ones that count most, the vocal several. I would bet MOST people in game don't even pay attention and have no idea any of this is even going on.Are you referring to the scripters or the people complaining about them?

[Ysamine]

From the officials:

Okay, let me clear that up.

Are players part of the game environment? Yes.

Are you required to be responsive to the game environment? Yes.

Do you have to respond to another player after they interact with you? No.

So what gives? Well, responsive don't mean reactive to every bit of stimuli in the game. But let me paint you a scenario.

Edward is out hunting and runs by Tellah. Tellah shouts at Edward, "You spoony bard!" But Edward just runs by. Tellah reports that Edward may be AFK scripting.

Edward doesn't have to respond to Tellah, but he increases his chances to have a GameMaster investigate his behaviors by not responding to Tellah. Edward's response to Tellah is ignoring him, but now he has to pass a scripting check. We generally start out in character, just so it's not jarring. But then the check usually progresses to being out of character when we feel Edward might just hate everything in Elanthia.

If you want to play a character that is hard to get along with, isn't reactive to the environment, and generally doesn't like other players, you're probably going to have a hard time in GemStone IV. Because it's a multi-user game. Not a co-op. Not quite an MMO. But definitely multiple players in a game world. Players are part of our environment.

But let's paint that another way.

Edward is out hunting and runs by Tellah. Tellah shouts at Edward, "You spoony bard!" But Edward shrugs and tells Tellah he's a half-wit wizard. By reacting to Tellah, Edward most likely won't be reported by Tellah, and the entire situation is avoided.

A player's accusation alone is not going to get you a warning.

Does that help?


~Wyrom, APM

[Hightower]

You people are amazing. What difference is it to you if he 'watches' or 'plays'? Let me make it easy and answer that for you... it makes zero difference how he's doing whatever he's doing. You badass, leet rp people seem to have a huge issue getting over this little thing we call OOC knowledge when it comes to scripters. You've got a horribly feeble mind if you can't work past that.

I don't understand how any of you assholes that are able to immerse yourselves so much into the game that X or Y is 'jarring' and ruining your game experience are so capable of claiming that deep immersion yet you're too feeble to either ignore something you don't like or, I dunno, maybe just keep the OOC knowledge out of it and you can run along assuming that person you just encountered was/is crazy, just got their bell rung, etc.

NOOOOPE! Let's not do any of that. Let's be like a bunch of little kids and go tattle to the teacher cause Johnny is running around in a circle over there and it's really fucking up your train of thought.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m71v9qmeB30



Ya know, I think the real sad part is that some of you seem to think that everyone should do as you do and should get the same exact thing from the game that you do. How can you tell someone else they're 'missing out' on something? Maybe they don't give a shit about whatever you feel they're missing out on. This will undoubtedly be a real shock to you, but we're not all in things for the same reason.


I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally the botting is mostly a problem for the precedent it sets and the fact that, TGO aside, most of the folks who are botting are doing so AFK. Lately we've added the distinction "inattentive" when discussing the issue, and I feel that's relevant because, obviously, if you aren't required to put any input into the game chances are the more you continue to play this way the less you'll be paying attention. At that point you might as well be AFK because you aren't really playing the game. In that sense it's "ill-gotten" gains, and that I do feel is a legitimate problem particularly as it relates to the silver-for-cash trade.

That perspective has nothing to do with my immersion, which for myself is not contingent much at all on what other players are doing but rather what I am doing. I do think, however, that I'm a little unusual in that sense. I believe in strict separation of IC and OOC, character and player. What I know and feel as a player doesn't bleed over to my character. Having said that, I can completely understand the perspective that it's difficult - and even pointless! - to immerse oneself in a character when the rest of the world isn't really there to interact with. For me it's the precedent, and therefore I agree with Wyrom's stronger stance on this issue. For others the problem is more immediate - they perceive that we're already there and the world is increasingly full of zombie characters they're unable to interact with. That absolutely would kill immersion for me...nobody wants to play by themselves!

~Taverkin

[Laviticas]

Are RP snobs a major problem? I know I am not one and if I've run up against any, I didn't give it much thought.

I'll give an example of how they are a problem.

About a year ago a few folks and I put together a player ran story line. Turned out it was attracting a good number of folks, to the point it was starting to pull people away from the Cross in to Shadows. It was obvious that it caused some butt hurt among the elite RP'rs, after a 2nd event we held that attracted 20+ characters on a Friday night the detractors came out of the woodwork. First was the character that played off being a noob, doing stat checks and locates with lnet, a month later they are pulled into CITS storyline. Then came the third even, we had 40+ on a friday night, then the blanket RPA's started happening, mind you not a single RPA had been given for the work individuals were making on a player ran story (I thought this was to be encouraged). during that third event one of these elite RP'rs was blurting out OOC comments to be disruptive, then later that night another one of these elite RP'rs killed one of the characters in the story, no challenge warning, no interaction, just pop out of invisibility, cast, put up sanct then hand out interact warning against one of the others in the story.

Every one of these people were later rewarded by being given a part in the CITS story line. I spent the next three months being constantly located, when I had enough I put in a report. The GM agreed it was harassment but would do nothing about it, I was expected to find out who was doing the locating, well fuck me I'm a square how the fuck can I check to see who is locating me. Thats when I said fuck it, the community is not worth my time, took my COBOL programming knowledge (Dinosaur shit I know) learned some Ruby and went full automation. I just didn't give a fuck about the RP anymore, and that's saying alot, I used to be anti-scripting as well.

[Methais]

Several out of how many? You can't assume an entire population agrees with the statements of a few, because you're not a Democrat, but it's not empirically sound.

Fixed.


Why don't you just go to shartered?

Also fixed.

[Haldrik]

Why don't you just go to shattered?

Why don't you go to platinum? Fucking inbreed.

[Kithus]

Why don't you go to platinum? Fucking inbreed.

Fuck you. You are not sending him to shart all over my instance.

[Haldrik]

If you want to play a character that is hard to get along with, isn't reactive to the environment, and generally doesn't like other players, you're probably going to have a hard time in GemStone IV. Because it's a multi-user game. Not a co-op. Not quite an MMO. But definitely multiple players in a game world. Players are part of our environment.



Wyorm is going to kill the game. If he wants an "RP" game, then he needs to change the mechanics of the game.

More people play for mechanics then RP. Or, for "mechanics with a side of RP." Not, "RP ONLY or you will get AFK script checked." lol. Being locked out gives me so much extra clarity.

[Wrathbringer]

Why don't you go to platinum? Fucking inbreed.

Why don't you go to dictionary.com?

[Kithus]

Wyorm is going to kill the game. If he wants an "RP" game, then he needs to change the mechanics of the game.

More people play for mechanics then RP. Or, for "mechanics with a side of RP." Not, "RP ONLY or you will get AFK script checked." lol. Being locked out gives me so much extra clarity.

Yes, the best APM Gemstone has ever had is going to ruin the game... It's so clear now... Can you get a lil dumber?

[Wrathbringer]

Yes, the best APM Gemstone has ever had is going to ruin the game... It's so clear now... Can you get a lil dumber?

I'm weighing in with "doubtful."

[Sorcasaurus]

Yes, the best APM Gemstone has ever had is going to ruin the game... It's so clear now... Can you get a lil dumber?

The current APM is making progress in changing the environment in the game. Whether it's the best APM ever, or if the changes are good, is subjective and likely divided by a line very close to the one already in this thread.

If his changes reduce a small player base even more, as much as you may agree with them, was it really for the best?