Ray Rice suspended a whole 2 games for domestic violence

[Tgo01]

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/09/08/video-of-ray-rice-punching-then-fiancee-in-casino-elevator-surfa/20958908/?icid=maing-grid7|maing15|dl1|sec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D526251


BALTIMORE (AP) - The NFL says the league never saw until Monday a video that appears to show Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice striking his then-fiancee in February.

The grainy video, released by TMZ Sports, apparently shows Rice and Janay Palmer in an elevator at an Atlantic City casino. Each hits the other before Rice knocks Palmer off her feet and into a railing.

An earlier TMZ video showed Rice dragging Palmer, now his wife, from the elevator at the Revel casino, which closed Sept. 2.

The NFL suspended Rice for two games in July for domestic violence.

"We requested from law enforcement any and all information about the incident, including the video from inside the elevator," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said. "That video was not made available to us and no one in our office has seen it until today."

Likewise, the Ravens said they had not seen it until now. Senior vice president Kevin Byrne said the team had no comment.

Rice's lawyer, Michael Diamondstein, would not comment to The Associated Press.

The 27-year-old Rice was charged with felony aggravated assault in the case, but in May he was accepted into a pretrial intervention program that allowed him to avoid jail time and could lead to the charge being purged from his record.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell drew criticism for not being tough enough. In a letter to all 32 NFL owners in August, he wrote, "My disciplinary decision led the public to question our sincerity, our commitment, and whether we understood the toll that domestic violence inflicts on so many families. I take responsibility both for the decision and for ensuring that our actions in the future properly reflect our values."

"I didn't get it right," he added. "Simply put, we have to do better. And we will."

First-time offenders now face a six game suspension.

Rice began his suspension Sunday, when the Ravens opened their season with a 23-16 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals. He will also miss Thursday night's game against Pittsburgh. According to the terms of his suspension, Rice can't be with the team and must work out alone.

Rice hasn't spoken often to the media since his arrest, but on July 31 called his actions "inexcusable" and said this is "something I have to live with the rest of my life."

He added: "I know that's not who I am as a man. That's not who my mom raised me to be. If anybody knows me, they know I was raised by a single parent, and that was my mother. I let her down, I let my wife down, I let my daughter down. I let my wife's parents down. I let the whole Baltimore community down. I let my teammates down. I let so many people down because of 30 seconds of my life that I know I can't take back."

It's a good thing he didn't refer to anyone as "Redskin" or people might have actually taken this seriously.

[Ker_Thwap]

Investigate the Atlantic City prosecutor. The Raven's should get a 15 yard illegal blow to the head penalty every single play Ray Rice is involved with. Suspend from the NFL for life.

I don't want to hear any whining about the Redskins, or the weed, or any other little trivial thing that takes attention away from this.

[Gompers]

If it comes out that they are lying about seeing the video, the NFL is gonna have 99 problems - this bitch being one of them.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Baltimore hired the guy who tortured and killed helpless animals for fun. The NFL doesn't care about anything but dollar bills ya'll. These athletes are not role models, they are animals conditioned to play a game and nothing else. Neither Baltimore or the NFL care about anything except money and how to get more of it. They'll punish him if public outcry is enough, but only when it actually affects their bottom line.

Have any of you who are so upset about him beating his wife so concerned you've stopped watching football? I didn't think so.

[Androidpk]

2 games for beating a woman

Season ban for marijuana usage..


lulz, some fucked up priorities right there

[Wrathbringer]

2 games for beating a woman

Season ban for marijuana usage..


lulz, some fucked up priorities right there

Everyone knows that marijuana is a performance enhancing drug. This guy just got in a fight with chick. He's not the first, but everyone is acting like he is. No one ever cared before. Must be a slow news day.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Everyone knows that marijuana is a performance enhancing drug. This guy just got in a fight with chick. He's not the first, but everyone is acting like he is. No one ever cared before. Must be a slow news day.

Not a whole lot of folks who beat their wife knock them completely unconscious on video though. I wouldn't put that in the "just got in a fight" category...

[Androidpk]

Performance enhancing.. :lol:

[Tgo01]

Have any of you who are so upset about him beating his wife so concerned you've stopped watching football? I didn't think so.

I have. But to be fair in the past 10 years I think I've seen all of one football game.

[Allereli]

Everyone knows that marijuana is a performance enhancing drug.

knowing how I was on weed, I always feel athletes who test positive for it should get an extra award

[Androidpk]

knowing how I was on weed, I always feel athletes who test positive for it should get an extra award

Seriously.

Steroids - pop and lock

Weed - flop and couch lock

[Alashir]

His contract has been terminated

[waywardgs]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/09/08/ravens-cut-ray-rice-in-wake-of-latest-domestic-violence-video/?hpid=z1

[Tgo01]

Now that's how it's done.

[Latrinsorm]

Not a whole lot of folks who beat their wife knock them completely unconscious on video though. I wouldn't put that in the "just got in a fight" category...Just sayin'...
2 games for beating a woman

Season ban for marijuana usage..


lulz, some fucked up priorities right thereIt (and most apparent NFL hypocrisies) makes more sense when you remember the NFL is a primarily white organization governing primarily black players for a primarily white audience.

[AnticorRifling]

2 games for beating a woman

Season ban for marijuana usage..


lulz, some fucked up priorities right there

We get it, you love weed.

Also, would the punishment be the same had he been hitting a man and not a woman?

[Atlanteax]

Another news link of same update:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11489134/baltimore-ravens-cut-ray-rice-new-video-surfaces

Cut & suspended indefinitely by the league...
I'm wondering if the NFLPA gave an "okay" behind the scenes

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Just sayin'...It (and most apparent NFL hypocrisies) makes more sense when you remember the NFL is a primarily white organization governing primarily black players for a primarily white audience.

Come out and say what you mean. Are you saying it's racism is why he wasn't dealt a harsher penalty or am I reading too much into your innuendo? What about the prosecutor - I thought black men were unfairly charged/convicted per your comments in the town that no one remembers already? Or do you need caveats to that claim - something like black men who are not athletes maybe?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

We get it, you love weed.

Also, would the punishment be the same had he been hitting a man and not a woman?

Would the man he knocked out apologize later and then marry him? Hard to say...

[Wrathbringer]

Would the man he knocked out apologize later and then marry him? Hard to say...

Depends on how hard he got hit.

[Androidpk]

We get it, you love weed.

Also, would the punishment be the same had he been hitting a man and not a woman?

My like or dislike for it is irrelevant.

[Ker_Thwap]

I wonder if the NFL tipped the Ravens about the suspension, so they could cut him first and save face. After the story broke initially, they did everything but throw him a parade, talking about what wonderful guy he was, and how they were supporting him despite his mistake.

All that remains now is for Atlantic City to pile on and prosecute him.

[Wrathbringer]

I wonder if the NFL tipped the Ravens about the suspension, so they could cut him first and save face. After the story broke initially, they did everything but throw him a parade, talking about what wonderful guy he was, and how they were supporting him despite his mistake.

All that remains now is for Atlantic City to pile on and prosecute him.

If al davis were still around he'd be blowing up rice' s agent about now. Wouldn't put it past Jerry Jones either

[Latrinsorm]

Come out and say what you mean. Are you saying it's racism is why he wasn't dealt a harsher penalty or am I reading too much into your innuendo? What about the prosecutor - I thought black men were unfairly charged/convicted per your comments in the town that no one remembers already? Or do you need caveats to that claim - something like black men who are not athletes maybe?White people are more likely to use drugs per capita than black people, but the stereotype (latent or otherwise) is the opposite. Therefore the NFL has to over-react to drug use to appease that anxiety. It's the same story as the team dress codes - do you think it's a coincidence that (primarily white) head coaches can bum around in hooded sweatshirts and (primarily black) players have to be in a suit and tie? Ironically minorities are more likely to be subjected to domestic violence per capita than white people, but as above the facts are irrelevant. There's no stereotype, so there's no anxiety, so the punishment is a slap on the wrist. It's just words on a page... until people can see the video for themselves, then it's a problem.

As to your other questions, you guys really overestimate me sometimes. All I said was about the NFL, I have no idea how the prosecutor got into it.

[Ker_Thwap]

If al davis were still around he'd be blowing up rice' s agent about now. Wouldn't put it past Jerry Jones either

Yeah, any team really. Even my beloved Belichick would spin it as a last chance, let him hang out with the really nice Kraft family and try to learn how to do things the right way kind of deal. If the ban is ever lifted, I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in getting him, depending on whatever waiver/priority rules apply of course.

[Wrathbringer]

Yeah, any team really. Even my beloved Belichick would spin it as a last chance, let him hang out with the really nice Kraft family and try to learn how to do things the right way kind of deal. If the ban is ever lifted, I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in getting him, depending on whatever waiver/priority rules apply of course.

Oh they banned him?

[Ker_Thwap]

It's the same story as the team dress codes - do you think it's a coincidence that (primarily white) head coaches can bum around in hooded sweatshirts and (primarily black) players have to be in a suit and tie?

The only NFL dress code for players is for during the games. The only rule for coaches is that they wear official NFL gear. This is why Bill Belichick wears the hoodie. He requested permission to wear a suit on the sidelines, so he could look as awesome as Tom Landry. The NFL said no suits, only official gear. In protest he wears the shabby hoodie, because it's an official NFL gear shabby hoodie.

Why doesn't everyone know this?!

[Ker_Thwap]

Oh they banned him?

Indefinite suspension, scroll up for some links.

[Wrathbringer]

The only NFL dress code for players is for during the games. The only rule for coaches is that they wear official NFL gear. This is why Bill Belichick wears the hoodie. He requested permission to wear a suit on the sidelines, so he could look as awesome as Tom Landry. The NFL said no suits, only official gear. In protest he wears the shabby hoodie, because it's an official NFL gear shabby hoodie.

Why doesn't everyone know this?!

This was news to me as well.

[Candor]

Have any of you who are so upset about him beating his wife so concerned you've stopped watching football? I didn't think so.

Admittedly this incident by itself is unlikely to affect the Raven's bottom line. But the public does have a limit to its tolerance (vast as it is) - the Ravens better be aware of this fact or future Rice issues are going to cause problems.

[Astray]

Scumbag. Of course he avoids any real penalty. I'm absolutely certain someone was given tickets to some games before he even got picked up.

Damn shame.

[Latrinsorm]

The only NFL dress code for players is for during the games. The only rule for coaches is that they wear official NFL gear. This is why Bill Belichick wears the hoodie. He requested permission to wear a suit on the sidelines, so he could look as awesome as Tom Landry. The NFL said no suits, only official gear. In protest he wears the shabby hoodie, because it's an official NFL gear shabby hoodie.

Why doesn't everyone know this?!The first part is true but I didn't say NFL dress code, I said team dress codes. :)

[Ker_Thwap]

The first part is true but I didn't say NFL dress code, I said team dress codes. :)

Technically, you didn't even say that. You phrased it as a useless ambiguous question. Coincidence?

[Latrinsorm]

Technically, you didn't even say that. You phrased it as a useless ambiguous question. Coincidence?Technically, I said "It's the same story as the team dress codes". You inferred the opposite of what was explicitly written so as to put me in a bad light. Do you suppose that's a coincidence? :D

[Gelston]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but the new penalties for domestic violence are: 1st incident- 6 game suspension. 2nd incident- indefinite suspension.

[Ker_Thwap]

Technically, I said "It's the same story as the team dress codes". You inferred the opposite of what was explicitly written so as to put me in a bad light. Do you suppose that's a coincidence? :D

I'm not the one who chose to use a dash.

[Tgo01]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but the new penalties for domestic violence are: 1st incident- 6 game suspension. 2nd incident- indefinite suspension.

Going with an "indefinite" suspension seems like such a cowardly way to go about it. Why not 1st incident 6 game suspension (although I think a whole season's worth makes more sense) and 2nd incident is you're banned for life.

Start holding people accountable, gosh dangit.

[Candor]

BALTIMORE (AP) -- Ray Rice was let go by the Baltimore Ravens on Monday and suspended indefinitely by the NFL after a video was released that appears to show the running back striking his then-fiancee in February.

[Gompers]

I bet the sob will be taking it out on her soon for "getting him kicked out of the NFL"

[Wrathbringer]

I bet the sob will be taking it out on her soon for "getting him kicked out of the NFL"

In before WB it was because he's black.

[Gelston]

Going with an "indefinite" suspension seems like such a cowardly way to go about it. Why not 1st incident 6 game suspension (although I think a whole season's worth makes more sense) and 2nd incident is you're banned for life.

Start holding people accountable, gosh dangit.

Shut up Latrin.

[Ardwen]

Assuming the NFL isn't lying about never seeing the tape, I think he got indefinite because he lied to them about what happened in the elevator to earn the longer suspension, only reason I can think of.

[Valthissa]

So it look like the new new rule is 6 games for the first offense unless there is a video.

I wonder if his then fiancee would have made a different choice if she knew there was no football in his future?

[Gelston]

So it look like the new new rule is 6 months for the first offense unless there is a video.

I wonder if his then fiancee would have made a different choice if she knew there was no football in his future?

Not 6 months, 6 games.

[Tgo01]

Shut up Latrin.

Never!

[Aiska]

The NFLPA will step in and he'll be in a Browns uniform next season.

[Gelston]

The NFLPA will step in and he'll be in a Browns uniform next season.

I doubt the NFLPA wants to be associated with supporting domestic violence.

[SHAFT]

You'd think he'd get a 2nd chance at some point in the future, but the fact that he lied to the commissioner and to the team makes me wonder if he will. It's up to Goodell to reinstate him.

[Aiska]

I doubt the NFLPA wants to be associated with supporting domestic violence.

It was as much a joke as it was a prediction.

[Maviur]

Ray Lewis talking bout Ray Rice on ESP NFL Monday Night....Back in the day Murder was fine or whatever the hell he did and pleaded guilty to.

[SHAFT]

Ray Lewis talking bout Ray Rice on ESP NFL Monday Night....Back in the day Murder was fine or whatever the hell he did and pleaded guilty to.

Yeah, always bothered me about Ray Lewis. He's so full of shit. When he starts to speak I have to turn the channel or leave the room. He's the worst.

[Androidpk]

Aiska has jokes.

[Parkbandit]

You'd think he'd get a 2nd chance at some point in the future, but the fact that he lied to the commissioner and to the team makes me wonder if he will. It's up to Goodell to reinstate him.

Ray Lewis got a second chance.. and he "allegedly" killed 2 people.

Wait.. it was a black on black crime... no big deal.

[Latrinsorm]

Ray Lewis talking bout Ray Rice on ESP NFL Monday Night....Back in the day Murder was fine or whatever the hell he did and pleaded guilty to.He was indicted on murder and ag-assault, he plead guilty to misdemeanor obstruction of justice.

[SHAFT]

Ray Lewis got a second chance.. and he "allegedly" killed 2 people.

Wait.. it was a black on black crime... no big deal.

Different time with a different commissioner.

[RichardCranium]

Ray Lewis pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice. Not quite the same.

[Maviur]

What was Ray Rice convicted of? Beside being on camera.


Edit to ask: Has Rice even been to court yet? and he was already convicted and banned by the NFL.

[Gelston]

What was Ray Rice convicted of? Beside being on camera.

You realize with that video the DA can indict the living shit out of him for assault right? This isn't over, due to that video, he is probably going to jail.

[RSR]

You realize with that video the DA can indict the living shit out of him for assault right? This isn't over, due to that video, he is probably going to jail.

You realize that there's a little thing called double jeopardy right? He's highly unlikely to face further charges after agreeing to a plea deal already.

[Androidpk]

Prosecutors aren't bringing him to trial. Case closed.

[Gelston]

You realize that there's a little thing called double jeopardy right? He's highly unlikely to face further charges after agreeing to a plea deal already.

Drunk is I. He still lost the court of public opinion. She could (and should) sue the ever living hell out of him.

[Androidpk]

Drunk is I. He still lost the court of opinion. She could (and should) sue the ever living hell out of him.

She married him 3 days afterwards. I doubt she is going to do anything.

[Gelston]

She married him 3 days afterwards. I doubt she is going to do anything.

She married him before he was indefinitely suspended.

[Tgo01]

As far as I can tell he never accepted a plea deal, he was instead entered into some sort of "pre-trial intervention program" that allows for the charges to be dropped against him entirely. I'm assuming this still precludes him from being tried for the crime assuming he keeps his nose clean during the program.

I've never heard of such a program. I mean really, what is this shit? People can just totally avoid prosecution for crimes now?

I think the inmates are running the prison these days.

[Warriorbird]

As far as I can tell he never accepted a plea deal, he was instead entered into some sort of "pre-trial intervention program" that allows for the charges to be dropped against him entirely. I'm assuming this still precludes him from being tried for the crime assuming he keeps his nose clean during the program.

I've never heard of such a program. I mean really, what is this shit? People can just totally avoid prosecution for crimes now?

I think the inmates are running the prison these days.

It helps if you're rich.

[Gelston]

As far as I can tell he never accepted a plea deal, he was instead entered into some sort of "pre-trial intervention program" that allows for the charges to be dropped against him entirely. I'm assuming this still precludes him from being tried for the crime assuming he keeps his nose clean during the program.

I've never heard of such a program. I mean really, what is this shit? People can just totally avoid prosecution for crimes now?

I think the inmates are running the prison these days.

Doesn't prevent civil. See OJ Simpson.

[Androidpk]

It helps if you're rich.

Affluenza is a serious condition.

[Gelston]

Affluenza is a serious condition.

Gets you out of quadruple homicide. I hope that judge wasn't or doesn't get reelected. That was fucking bullshit.

[Androidpk]

I would have given him a life sentence.

[Gelston]

I would have given him a life sentence.

I'd have sentenced him to be hanged on Sunday.

[Androidpk]

Heres hoping the multiple civil court cases drain his family dry.

[Gelston]

Heres hoping the multiple civil court cases drain his family dry.

Not his family, but it'd be nice to see him working in a Denny's or something.

[Androidpk]

His mom and dad are a real piece of work as well. The dad was caught impersonating a police officer just recently.

[Gelston]

I have only three reasons I would ever lay hands on a woman. Kick me hard enough in the balls? Yeah you know what that does to a man.

Have a deadly weapon? Yeah, I am going to fight to live.

Professional female fighter? Probably still beat my ass.

[Androidpk]

I have only three reasons I would ever lay hands on a woman. Kick me hard enough in the balls? Yeah you know what that does to a man.

Have a deadly weapon? Yeah, I am going to fight to live.

Professional female fighter? Probably still beat my ass.

What about your feet?

[Gelston]

What about your feet?
Um, what about them? Sure, can't hit a woman but you can kick them. Naw though. I wouldn't.

[Androidpk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPgk3euKd9g

[Gelston]

We used to hit each other in the balls all the time in the Marines too. While in formation at that. I should add on if the woman's intent was to further attack me after the striking of my testicles.

[Androidpk]

And thus the saga of why Gelston can't have kids.

[Parkbandit]

My wife saw the video and said "What kind of dumb fool is she, getting in his face and trying to hit him?"

[Gnome Rage]

My wife saw the video and said "What kind of dumb fool is she, getting in his face and trying to hit him?"

I still don't understand why he had to hit her. A dude as big as him could easily restrain her rather than punch her in the face....

[Sorcasaurus]

I'm surprised at the national outcry to have Ray banned from everything for life and to be reduced to poverty.

We have a legal system, and playing in the NFL should be treated like any other job. He will be brought to court (Likely both criminal and civil charges) and he has currently lost his job. I see no reason why, if he's able, he shouldn't be allowed to play again after "Doing his time" both legally and with the league. A civil settlement is none of my business, but his wife is certainly able to pursue that avenue and, seemingly, win with ease if she wishes.

[Tgo01]

I'm surprised at the national outcry to have Ray banned from everything for life and to be reduced to poverty.

We have a legal system, and playing in the NFL should be treated like any other job. He will be brought to court (Likely both criminal and civil charges) and he has currently lost his job. I see no reason why, if he's able, he shouldn't be allowed to play again after "Doing his time" both legally and with the league. A civil settlement is none of my business, but his wife is certainly able to pursue that avenue and, seemingly, win with ease if she wishes.

I disagree; his job makes him a nationally recognized figure and a role model to a lot of people, that should entail extra scrutiny in his life.

Also I've worked at a couple of places where people were let go from their job for being charged with a crime, much less with a video of the crime floating around the internet.

[Ker_Thwap]

I'm surprised at the national outcry to have Ray banned from everything for life and to be reduced to poverty.

We have a legal system, and playing in the NFL should be treated like any other job. He will be brought to court (Likely both criminal and civil charges) and he has currently lost his job. I see no reason why, if he's able, he shouldn't be allowed to play again after "Doing his time" both legally and with the league. A civil settlement is none of my business, but his wife is certainly able to pursue that avenue and, seemingly, win with ease if she wishes.

For me, it's because he's in the entertainment business. When I'm escaping into my entertainment fix, I don't want to be reminded of domestic violence every time I see his number on the field. Same deal with Mel Gibson, I don't want to be reminded of hateful losers on my TV screen when I'm trying to relax.

[Parkbandit]

I still don't understand why he had to hit her. A dude as big as him could easily restrain her rather than punch her in the face....

He is a morally weak person who has no problem punching a woman square in the face. I was brought up differently... "don't ever lay a hand on a woman".

But it's funny how we are all about giving women equality over everything.. Equal Pay! Equal Opportunity! Equal Representation! Equal, Equal, Equal!!

If Ray Rice had cold cocked another man.. would the outrage be there for him to lose his job indefinitely? I doubt it.

[Parkbandit]

I disagree; his job makes him a nationally recognized figure and a role model to a lot of people, that should entail extra scrutiny in his life.

Also I've worked at a couple of places where people were let go from their job for being charged with a crime, much less with a video of the crime floating around the internet.

I agree.. I think the NFL has every right to uphold it's employees to whatever level they wish to.. to protect the product.

[Ker_Thwap]

He is a morally weak person who has no problem punching a woman square in the face. I was brought up differently... "don't ever lay a hand on a woman".

But it's funny how we are all about giving women equality over everything.. Equal Pay! Equal Opportunity! Equal Representation! Equal, Equal, Equal!!

If Ray Rice had cold cocked another man.. would the outrage be there for him to lose his job indefinitely? I doubt it.

This is where domestic abuse differs from "normal" violence. If the man hit his life partner/boyfriend/whatever then yes, it would have been equally as bad. Had it been a bar fight with both parties swinging wildly, then no it wouldn't have been as bad.

It takes a certain kind of human to commit violence against someone who is passionately in love with you. A hateful kind of control freak, "know your place, get up off the dirt and come back to worship me because you're worthless and can't do better than me" kind of vermin.

[Warriorbird]

I agree.. I think the NFL has every right to uphold it's employees to whatever level they wish to.. to protect the product.

Exactly this.

[Parkbandit]

This is where domestic abuse differs from "normal" violence. If the man hit his life partner/boyfriend/whatever then yes, it would have been equally as bad. Had it been a bar fight with both parties swinging wildly, then no it wouldn't have been as bad.

It takes a certain kind of human to commit violence against someone who is passionately in love with you. A hateful kind of control freak, "know your place, get up off the dirt and come back to worship me because you're worthless and can't do better than me" kind of vermin.

So, if this was just a random woman, there would be no outrage? I doubt it.

This has less to do with domestic violence and more to do with a "man" punching a woman in the face and knocking her out cold.

[Sorcasaurus]

I'm not sure what I said disagrees with any of your responses. My reply was on the premise:

I'm surprised at the national outcry to have Ray banned from everything for life and to be reduced to poverty.

The dialog I've heard around this from radio/tv/coworkers/friends has been surprisingly close to "Lock him up and throw away the key". I was simply saying let's allow the legal system and the NFL to punish him according to the laws/rules in place. As of now, those laws/rules are not a lifetime ban and poverty.



I disagree; his job makes him a nationally recognized figure and a role model to a lot of people, that should entail extra scrutiny in his life.

Also I've worked at a couple of places where people were let go from their job for being charged with a crime, much less with a video of the crime floating around the internet.

I didn't say he shouldn't be fired. I said he should be allowed the opportunity to work after serving his punishment. Not a lifetime ban that people seem to be calling for. Whether or not a team actually picks him up is entirely up to them. The Ravens certainly make their stance clear. Sponsors have also cut the cord as quickly as possible. There's a difference between allowing him to pursue work, and him actually getting it.

At the very least he has hurt his own personal brand, and any potential employer now has to weigh that against the possible benefits of employing him.

[Hydra]

So, if this was just a random woman, there would be no outrage? I doubt it.

This has less to do with domestic violence and more to do with a "man" punching a woman in the face and knocking her out cold.
I agree. This isn't about a woman being abused, or about a man abusing his partner. It's about a man abusing a woman. If it was just about a woman being attacked people would have lost their shit when Chamique Holdsclaw attacked her GF.

Again with the "Tell me who the perp/victim is so I can decide if I care" mentality of our society.

[Tgo01]

I'm not sure what I said disagrees with any of your responses. My reply was on the premise:


The dialog I've heard around this from radio/tv/coworkers/friends has been surprisingly close to "Lock him up and throw away the key". I was simply saying let's allow the legal system and the NFL to punish him according to the laws/rules in place. As of now, those laws/rules are not a lifetime ban and poverty.




I didn't say he shouldn't be fired. I said he should be allowed the opportunity to work after serving his punishment. Not a lifetime ban that people seem to be calling for. Whether or not a team actually picks him up is entirely up to them. The Ravens certainly make their stance clear. Sponsors have also cut the cord as quickly as possible. There's a difference between allowing him to pursue work, and him actually getting it.

At the very least he has hurt his own personal brand, and any potential employer now has to weigh that against the possible benefits of employing him.

And I disagree that he should be allowed to play again. Maybe the next guy who wants to punch his girlfriend/wife/partner/whatever will think twice about it if it means his life could be ruined even if the courts decides to turn a blind eye.

[Wrathbringer]

And I disagree that he should be allowed to play again. Maybe the next guy who wants to punch his girlfriend/wife/partner/whatever will think twice about it if it means his life could be ruined even if the courts decides to turn a blind eye.

Unlikely. I would imagine no one who does this kind of thing stops to think about anything before punching someone or it wouldn't happen. If anyone did, it would have almost certainly been someone like Rice with a lot to lose. It happens in the heat of the moment. I'm sure Rice didn't sit down, think about context, the consequences of his actions, and then decide to hit her anyway. Check the video to see, though, just in case. It was probably roid rage.

[Tgo01]

Unlikely. No one, especially someone in Rice's position, stops to think about anything before punching someone. It happens in the heat of the moment. I'm sure Rice didn't sit down, think about context, the consequences of his actions, and then decide to hit her anyway. Check the video to see, though, just in case.

Sucks to be him then. It's never even crossed my mind to just punch someone in the face because I was angry. Perhaps some mandatory preemptive anger management classes are in order.

[Sorcasaurus]

And I disagree that he should be allowed to play again. Maybe the next guy who wants to punch his girlfriend/wife/partner/whatever will think twice about it if it means his life could be ruined even if the courts decides to turn a blind eye.

You and I don't agree, and luckily we don't have to. Unfortunately for you, the NFL's policy doesn't agree with you either.

Rice IS currently on indefinite suspension though, so at least the policy doesn't remove your preferred course of action from being possible. :wink2:

[Sorcasaurus]

It was probably roid rage.

This is my guess. I've known people who went on "Roid cycles" and the change in their behavior is extremely noticeable. Does it excuse it? No. It just satisfies the always present "What the hell were they thinking" around events like this

[Tgo01]

You and I don't agree, and luckily we don't have to. Unfortunately for you, the NFL's policy doesn't agree with you either.

Rice IS currently on indefinite suspension though, so at least the policy doesn't remove your preferred course of action from being possible. :wink2:

Yeah, just like Vick I'm sure he'll put on a uniform again someday.

Sad how people are willing to so easily forgive and forget when it comes to sports figures.

[Sorcasaurus]

Yeah, just like Vick I'm sure he'll put on a uniform again someday.

Sad how people are willing to so easily forgive and forget when it comes to sports figures.

I feel this way about everyone, not just sports stars.

I am surprised by the Ravens though. Having had a murderer on their team previously, and erecting a statue to him (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/09/baltimore-ravens-unveil-ray-lewis-statue), I didn't think this would ruffle their feathers. Maybe they cut him for not finishing the job?

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, just like Vick I'm sure he'll put on a uniform again someday.

Sad how people are willing to so easily forgive and forget when it comes to sports figures.

Do you believe we should never forgive people for their "sins"? THAT'S NOT VERY CHRISTIAN OF YOU!

Actually.. it is very Christian of you...

[Parkbandit]

I feel this way about everyone, not just sports stars.

I am surprised by the Ravens though. Having had a murderer on their team previously, and erecting a statue to him (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/09/baltimore-ravens-unveil-ray-lewis-statue), I didn't think this would ruffle their feathers. Maybe they cut him for not finishing the job?

In Ray Lewis' defense.. he didn't necessarily wield the knife.. he probably just held them down as they were getting stabbed.

[Wrathbringer]

Do you believe we should never forgive people for their "sins"? THAT'S NOT VERY CHRISTIAN OF YOU!

Actually.. it is very Christian of you...

heh sad but true.

[Tenlaar]

Am I taking crazy pills, or does it look like she tried to throw an elbow at his face before he hit her?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I wish he'd get run over by a Greyhound bus.


“It’s a tough situation,” Vick told the Daily News Monday. “It’s very sensitive. I think we all got to realize as professional athletes that we are professionals. And we have to be able to maintain our poise in all situations, on and off the field. There’s just no room for that.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/mike-vick-room-ray-rice-article-1.1933011#ixzz3Cq3D2N7V

[Wrathbringer]

Sucks to be him then. It's never even crossed my mind to just punch someone in the face because I was angry. Perhaps some mandatory preemptive anger management classes are in order.

I clarified my original post to which you responded. I don't excuse this, but certainly crimes of passion (and roid rage) do happen, and are committed by people fully aware of the consequences so I'm not sure making an example of Rice is going to prevent any future incidences, that's all.

[Thondalar]

I feel this way about everyone, not just sports stars.

I am surprised by the Ravens though. Having had a murderer on their team previously, and erecting a statue to him (http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/09/baltimore-ravens-unveil-ray-lewis-statue), I didn't think this would ruffle their feathers. Maybe they cut him for not finishing the job?

Ray Lewis was never convicted of anything, nor was his "crime" caught on camera.

[Wrathbringer]

Ray Lewis was never convicted of anything, nor was his "crime" caught on camera.

in before Latrinsorm bolded quote "just sayin..."

[Androidpk]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/janay-rice-response-instagram_n_5790160.html

[Tgo01]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/janay-rice-response-instagram_n_5790160.html

So she likes the spotlight when it's positive but hates it when it's negative. Poor thing :(

The thing that upsets me about this sort of shit being swept under the rug is it's unfair to the players who don't do shit like this, the players who don't beat up women, rape, murder, steal cop cars, kill animals, etc. We all view them as "equals" on the field but they're not equals; one is a good (or just decent) person and one is scum. The thing is these types of stories usually gives the scum even more publicity. There is more of a "story" for these players. Look at Vick and his whole "come back from being a piece of shit" story.

Stop idolizing scum. Seems like a pretty good message that should have been drilled into our heads hundreds of years ago but unfortunately we as a society don't work like that yet.

[Androidpk]

So she likes the spotlight when it's positive but hates it when it's negative. Poor thing :(

The thing that upsets me about this sort of shit being swept under the rug is it's unfair to the players who don't do shit like this, the players who don't beat up women, rape, murder, steal cop cars, kill animals, etc. We all view them as "equals" on the field but they're not equals; one is a good (or just decent) person and one is scum. The thing is these types of stories usually gives the scum even more publicity. There is more of a "story" for these players. Look at Vick and his whole "come back from being a piece of shit" story.

Stop idolizing scum. Seems like a pretty good message that should have been drilled into our heads hundreds of years ago but unfortunately we as a society don't work like that yet.

Are you truly upset about it though?

[Tenlaar]

The comments after that article are really sad. They are full of people basically saying that the woman is unable to make her own decisions, she needs to do this, she needs to do that, she needs professional help, she should be forcibly removed from him against her will, just ridiculous stuff. And anybody who tries to say something like "hey, you know, you guys are making insane logical leaps based off of absolutely no actual knowledge of the people or their relationship" is immediately pounced on by a bunch of people saying things like "oh look, another man who beats women."

[Androidpk]

The comments after that article are really sad. They are full of people basically saying that the woman is unable to make her own decisions, she needs to do this, she needs to do that, she needs professional help, she should be forcibly removed from him against her will, just ridiculous stuff. And anybody who tries to say something like "hey, you know, you guys are making insane logical leaps based off of absolutely no actual knowledge of the people or their relationship" is immediately pounced on by a bunch of people saying things like "oh look, another man who beats women."

The majority of commenters on HP are literally the stupidest people in the world.

[Tenlaar]

It doesn't seem like they just live on HP, it's like that in the comments of any article of any publication. People are just so fucking stupid now, ugh.

I forgot to mention the amount of comments basically saying the woman is a prostitute and she's ok with taking a beating every now and then so she can spend his money, and that's the only reason she has stayed with him. I want to punch every single one of them into the handrail of an elevator.

[Jeril]

The comments after that article are really sad. They are full of people basically saying that the woman is unable to make her own decisions, she needs to do this, she needs to do that, she needs professional help, she should be forcibly removed from him against her will, just ridiculous stuff. And anybody who tries to say something like "hey, you know, you guys are making insane logical leaps based off of absolutely no actual knowledge of the people or their relationship" is immediately pounced on by a bunch of people saying things like "oh look, another man who beats women."


It doesn't seem like they just live on HP, it's like that in the comments of any article of any publication. People are just so fucking stupid now, ugh.

I forgot to mention the amount of comments basically saying the woman is a prostitute and she's ok with taking a beating every now and then so she can spend his money, and that's the only reason she has stayed with him. I want to punch every single one of them into the handrail of an elevator.

This says a lot of what I was thinking. People rushing to judgments and their own conclusions without knowing everything. Do we even know for a fact that him hitting her on that video wasn't a one time thing, or is he just being labeled a wife beater for one moment of extreme stupidity?

[Tenlaar]

As far as I can tell she started a physical altercation, he hit her ONCE, they were BOTH taken away in cuffs, and now he is a horrible abuser for life who doesn't deserve anything good ever for the rest of his miserable life and she is a battered prostitute who is unable to make rational adult decisions like whether or not to offer somebody forgiveness and a second chance.

Oh, and anybody who doesn't agree is also a horrible abuser of women, so be careful what you say!

[Tgo01]

Are you truly upset about it though?

Yes. Can't you see my serious upset face?

[Wrathbringer]

The comments after that article are really sad. They are full of people basically saying that the woman is unable to make her own decisions, she needs to do this, she needs to do that, she needs professional help, she should be forcibly removed from him against her will, just ridiculous stuff. And anybody who tries to say something like "hey, you know, you guys are making insane logical leaps based off of absolutely no actual knowledge of the people or their relationship" is immediately pounced on by a bunch of people saying things like "oh look, another man who beats women."

Sounds like PC.

[JackWhisper]

BTW to a couple people that commented about the video and how it looks potentially ambiguous of her actions.... here's what happened.

They got in the elevator.
He stepped to her.
He spit in her face.
She raised her elbow to him.
He hit her and backed up.
She came at him.
He bashed her in the head.

Not self defense.

[Tgo01]

And anybody who tries to say something like "hey, you know, you guys are making insane logical leaps based off of absolutely no actual knowledge of the people or their relationship" is immediately pounced on by a bunch of people saying things like "oh look, another man who beats women."

Not that I think you're a wife beater but that is a pretty stupid cop out.

We don't need more knowledge about their relationship or anything like that; it's not normal to punch your partner/whatever so hard in the face that you knock them out. This is not normal. It doesn't matter if she's "okay" with it. It's not normal. If she really finds nothing wrong with this behavior then she is even more abused than we are aware of. Either that or she really is a gold digger so puts up with it so she can live a nice lifestyle.

Those are the only two possibilities.

[Thondalar]

BTW to a couple people that commented about the video and how it looks potentially ambiguous of her actions.... here's what happened.

They got in the elevator.
He stepped to her.
He spit in her face.
She raised her elbow to him.
He hit her and backed up.
She came at him.
He bashed her in the head.

Not self defense.

That's what it looks like to you. Not saying it was self defense, but when I watch it it sure seems like she's goading the shit out of him.

[Tenlaar]

If she really finds nothing wrong with this behavior then she is even more abused than we are aware of. Either that or she really is a gold digger so puts up with it so she can live a nice lifestyle.

Those are the only two possibilities.

And there we go, she's either too abused to make decisions or a prostitute.

[Tenlaar]

That's what it looks like to you. Not saying it was self defense, but when I watch it it sure seems like she's goading the shit out of him.

Not to mention that the first thing that happens is her backhanding him on the chin as she's walking to the elevator.

[Tgo01]

That's what it looks like to you. Not saying it was self defense, but when I watch it it sure seems like she's goading the shit out of him.

No I think JackWhisper is 100% correct. It looks like she's just pushing the elevator button and he leans in to do something; I can't tell if it's spitting in her face or saying something to her but she definitely reacts to something he did/said, she turns around and looks pissed, he punched her, it looks as if she tried to slap his arm away after she had already been punched, he backs up and she walks towards him obviously pissed off, he punches he hard enough to knock her out.

That is exactly what happened. I'm not even sure where everyone is getting the idea that she punched him first. I'm assuming this is more just idolizing a piece of human scum again.

[Tgo01]

And there we go, she's either too abused to make decisions or a prostitute.

I'm sorry you hate the truth Tenlaar, but it's true. There is no third possibility.

[AnticorRifling]

That's what it looks like to you. Not saying it was self defense, but when I watch it it sure seems like she's goading the shit out of him.

Goading isn't cause for self defense.

[Wrathbringer]

And there we go, she's either too abused to make decisions or a prostitute.

Hasn't anyone considered the possibility that she's just stupid? She is a woman, after all. It's not that far a jump.

[Thondalar]

I'm assuming this is more just idolizing a piece of human scum again.

I don't idolize professional athletes. Even if I did, I'm a Giants fan, so it'd probably be someone from that team. As I said before, I'm not saying it was self defense, I'm not excusing his actions...I'm simply saying there's obviously more involved than just him suddenly deciding to whoop the shit out of her for no apparent reason.

[Tgo01]

Not to mention that the first thing that happens is her backhanding him on the chin as she's walking to the elevator.

I didn't even pay attention to the part prior to the elevator, I thought all of the good stuff happened in the elevator. Okay so I watched this part again and yet again he obviously does/says something to make her react. Maybe this is what JackWhisper is referring to because here it definitely looks like he spit in her face which caused her to hit him.

But yes. Let's stick with the narrative that she brought this on herself and she's not in an emotional/physical abusive relationship because she decided to stay with him :yes2:

[Tenlaar]

I'm sorry you hate the truth Tenlaar, but it's true. There is no third possibility.

They were having trouble and on a night of drinking they got into a fight. She came at him suddenly, he swung and accidentally knocked her into the rail. They both recognize that they each had fault in the situation, and they made an effort to work through their problems.

Is that not allowed? Are people in your judgey judgeland full of judgement not allowed to forgive each other and move on with their lives?

[Candor]

Ray Rice has been paid $22 million of his current $35 million dollar contract. Excuse me if I can't feel sorry for this girlfriend/wife beater.

[Candor]

They were having trouble and on a night of drinking they got into a fight. She came at him suddenly, he swung and accidentally knocked her into the rail. They both recognize that they each had fault in the situation, and they made an effort to work through their problems.

Is that not allowed? Are people in your judgey judgeland full of judgement not allowed to forgive each other and move on with their lives?

No it's not allowed. He committed a felony (maybe more than one). Tough beans.

[Tgo01]

She came at him suddenly

"Suddenly"? Where the fuck are you getting this from? Your ass? How cavernous is that thing?


he swung and accidentally knocked her into the rail.

Accidentally? I really have nothing to say in response to this.


They both recognize that they each had fault in the situation, and they made an effort to work through their problems.

Oh, the woman recognized her role in getting hit so hard she was knocked unconscious? That makes everything okay then.


Is that not allowed?

It really shouldn't be allowed to punch your partner for any reason. Reading your posts I'm starting to see why others think you believe otherwise though.

[JackWhisper]

Tenlaar, tell me. In your time of ever accidentally knocking anyone into anything, do you full on lean your arm back to cock more power, and throw your shoulder into it? I'm just saying; if I'm putting my shoulder into it, someone's going to be sporting a very very nice shiner.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

This says a lot of what I was thinking. People rushing to judgments and their own conclusions without knowing everything. Do we even know for a fact that him hitting her on that video wasn't a one time thing, or is he just being labeled a wife beater for one moment of extreme stupidity?

Are you suggesting that hitting a spouse/gf must be done more than once to be labeled as wife beater/spousal abuse?

[Tenlaar]

Are you even watching the video, Terrence? She swings at him before they even get in the elevator, and then while they're inside she clearly steps towards him in a "I'm about to swing on you" posture. Her hitting the rail was the accidental part.

I'm not saying it's her fault, I'm saying it's both of their damned faults. I don't know what world you live in where women never start fights but that does not jive with my life experiences with drunk females.

[Wrathbringer]

"Suddenly"? Where the fuck are you getting this from? Your ass? How cavernous is that thing?



Accidentally? I really have nothing to say in response to this.



Oh, the woman recognized her role in getting hit so hard she was knocked unconscious? That makes everything okay then.



It really shouldn't be allowed to punch your partner for any reason. Reading your posts I'm starting to see why others think you believe otherwise though.

Is it still legal to beat your wife on Sunday on the courthouse steps in North Carolina? If so, perhaps the right lawyer could get Rice his job back. The law agrees that the beating is okay, it's just a question of where and when it occurred. Someone get me his agent on the phone.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Are you even watching the video, Terrence? She swings at him before they even get in the elevator, and then while they're inside she clearly steps towards him in a "I'm about to swing on you" posture. Her hitting the rail was the accidental part.

I'm not saying it's her fault, I'm saying it's both of their damned faults. I don't know what world you live in where women never start fights but that does not jive with my life experiences with drunk females.

I don't know what kind of women you hang out with, but I've never seen a woman start a fight, drunk or not.

[JackWhisper]

Fat Alabama Bulldykes.

The FAB gals.

[Tenlaar]

Are you suggesting that hitting a spouse/gf must be done more than once to be labeled as wife beater/spousal abuse?

I won't suggest, I'll come right out and say that when two people mutually get into a fight it is not wife beating/abuse.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I won't suggest, I'll come right out and say that when two people mutually get into a fight it is not wife beating/abuse.

Ok.
Subject A beats subject B. B does not fight back = abuse.
Subject A beats subject B. B fights back = not abuse.

Is that what you are saying?

[Tenlaar]

I don't know what kind of women you hang out with, but I've never seen a woman start a fight, drunk or not.

Look at that, different people have different experiences in life. Shocking.

I've seen a handful of drunk women start swinging on their boyfriends, full on closed fist style.

[Tgo01]

Are you even watching the video, Terrence? She swings at him before they even get in the elevator

Are you watching the video? Going by the video I linked in the first post look at the 7 second mark, right before she viciously came at him for no reason. It sure as hell looks like he spit in her face, if nothing else he said something to her to make her go off. I'm assuming if he said something it wasn't "Hello Sweetie!"


and then while they're inside she clearly steps towards him in a "I'm about to swing on you" posture.

Are you just totally ignoring the fact that after she turns to face him he hit her and before she turned to face him he clearly leaned toward her and did/said something again? Are we just totally ignoring everything he did except for the final knockout blow?


Her hitting the rail was the accidental part.

Then maybe the poor guy should stop hitting his wife so hard that she falls back and hits her head on things.


I'm not saying it's her fault, I'm saying it's both of their damned faults. I don't know what world you live in where women never start fights but that does not jive with my life experiences with drunk females.

You're placing blame on her period. This is exactly what women in abusive relationships are told; it's either all their fault or it's partially their fault. "I'm sorry, baby, sometimes you just make me so angry that I punch you! Please take me back, it won't happen again."

[Tenlaar]

Ok.
Subject A beats subject B. B does not fight back = abuse.
Subject A beats subject B. B fights back = not abuse.

Is that what you are saying?

You need to remove "beat", because there was no beating here. Beating is not hitting somebody really hard once and then not hitting them any more when they drop. Referring to it as a beating is an attempt to portray it as a one sided event when, in reality, it was not. It was a really short fight between two people.

[Tgo01]

Look at that, different people have different experiences in life. Shocking.

I've seen a handful of drunk women start swinging on their boyfriends, full on closed fist style.

Who cares? This man is a physically fit athlete. He should know better, even if we're going to go into this bullshit that the woman in this scenario "started it."

If a 3 year old child starts swinging at you are you going to punch the little shit in the face as hard as you can because he "started it"? No! At least I hope not. Because you are a much bigger person and you can do a lot more damage to that person than they can do to you.

[Tenlaar]

Are you just totally ignoring the fact that before she turns to face him he had already hit her and before she turned to face him he clearly leaned and did/said something again? Are we just totally ignoring everything he did except for the final knockout blow?
I'm not, but you sure seem to be ignoring the fact that she had already hit him before they even stepped into the elevator.


You're placing blame on her period. This is exactly what women in abusive relationships are told; it's either all their fault or it's partially their fault. "I'm sorry, baby, sometimes you just make me so angry that I punch you! Please take me back, it won't happen again."

I would like you to go ahead and flat out state that women are never, under any circumstances, ever allowed to share in the blame for a fight between a man and a woman. Please, please go ahead and state that flat out so we can move on from there and talk about how fucking stupid it is.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You need to remove "beat", because there was no beating here. Beating is not hitting somebody really hard once and then not hitting them any more when they drop. Referring to it as a beating is an attempt to portray it as a one sided event when, in reality, it was not. It was a really short fight between two people.

Please rewrite it with the correct verb for me?

[Tenlaar]

If a 3 year old child starts swinging at you are you going to punch the little shit in the face as hard as you can because he "started it"?

Bullshit argument, a 3 year old and a fully grown woman are not equivalent. If a 5'3, 110 pound grown ass adult starts swinging at you are you going to stand there and take it because they are so much smaller than you?

[Tgo01]

I'm not, but you sure seem to be ignoring the fact that she had already hit him before they even stepped into the elevator.

You said she "came at him suddenly." He clearly spit in her face or said something to her before she hit him; that is not her "coming at him suddenly."


I would like you to go ahead and flat out state that women are never, under any circumstances, ever allowed to share in the blame for a fight between a man and a woman. Please, please go ahead and state that flat out so we can move on from there and talk about how fucking stupid it is.

You say Suppa Hobbit Mage is being unfair by saying Rice beat his wife because beating someone entails something worse than punching them once then you sit here and say the two of them were "fighting."

This was clearly a one sided fight. He had no marks, bruises or anything of the sort. She was punched in the face, TWICE, once so hard she was knocked unconscious. She shares no part of the blame in receiving this kind of physical attack. None. Stop.

[Tenlaar]

Ok.
Subject A beats subject B. B does not fight back = abuse.
Subject A and subject B get into a fight. B gets rocked and is not struck again from the point that the fight ends = not abuse.

Is that what you are saying?

That is what I am saying.

[AnticorRifling]

Tenlaar, tell me. In your time of ever accidentally knocking anyone into anything, do you full on lean your arm back to cock more power, and throw your shoulder into it? I'm just saying; if I'm putting my shoulder into it, someone's going to be sporting a very very nice shiner.

Unless the intent of the punch was to knock the target into the railing then that portion is an accident. "I meant to hit them, I didn't expect them, as a result of the hit, to bounce off of X as a result" I think that's what he's saying maybe?

[Johnny Five]

See, what he did wrong was to just hire a female body guard. The body guard could have punched her in the face while he just sat there and LOOKIE he'd still be playing football.

[Tgo01]

Bullshit argument, a 3 year old and a fully grown woman are not equivalent. If a 5'3, 110 pound grown ass adult starts swinging at you are you going to stand there and take it because they are so much smaller than you?

How is this a bullshit argument? In either case the bigger person has 150+ pounds on the smaller person. As you pointed out yourself she smacked him in the chin. That is the only physical contact I can see in the video coming from the wife. Rice hit her twice.

If Rice was in fear of his life from his wife then the pussy should just quit football anyways.

[AnticorRifling]

Bullshit argument, a 3 year old and a fully grown woman are not equivalent. If a 5'3, 110 pound grown ass adult starts swinging at you are you going to stand there and take it because they are so much smaller than you?

Yes. Unless I feel they can do real damage I'll sit there and take it.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Yes. Unless I feel they can do real damage I'll sit there and take it.

I'm not tough like you. I'd probably leave or restrain them.

[Tgo01]

I'm not tough like you. I'd probably leave or restrain them.

That was actually going to be exactly my follow up argument if Tenlaar pushed it. Rice got into the cramped and private elevator after his wife hit him in the chin. He could have easily stayed away from her until she or he cooled down. He followed her into the elevator. He apparently instigated the shit outside and inside of the elevator. He could have just not followed her in there.

Even after he followed her in there he could have tried to restrain her, or as Anticor pointed out just take it. She didn't even swing at him in the elevator, Tenlaar is just assuming she was going to and Rice preemptively knocked her out.

[Johnny Five]

Don't swing a closed fist if you can't take a closed fist.
End of today's lesson.

I also don't punch people bigger than me. :(

[Atlanteax]

Tenlaar must have had experience hitting women and does not want to feel guilty about it.

[Jeril]

Are you suggesting that hitting a spouse/gf must be done more than once to be labeled as wife beater/spousal abuse?

I think in order give someone a label as such they'd have to do it more then once, yes. Calling someone a wife beater or spousal abuser implies a pattern, not a one time ordeal. Was him hitting her the right thing to do? No way in hell, but to make him out to be some super villain is just stupid in my eyes. Now if this wasn't the first time he has done this or he does it again, hang him out to dry.

[Tenlaar]

Tenlaar must have had experience hitting women and does not want to feel guilty about it.

Of course, the only reason I could possibly come to the conclusion that men and women get into fights sometimes is because I go around beating women at every chance I get. It couldn't have anything to do with first hand experiences involving women starting fist fights with men.

I have never had to hit a woman yet, but you know what? If one starts swinging at me like a man there is a really good chance she will get rocked in the grill like a man. And if you want to try to pass some moral judgement on me for my unwillingness to let somebody hit me you can fuck right off.

[JackWhisper]

The stupid in this is anyone thinking that she did anything other than be a mouthy bitch. That's MY assumption. I know she's not innocent.

That doesn't make hitting a woman okay. At all. I don't care if she said your dick was 2 inches big and your illegal immigrant gardener was giving it to her better. Doesn't make hitting a woman okay.

What makes it REALLY not okay, is he *TRIED* to hit her. He didn't just casually swat at her. He fucking launched on her. If you watch the video closely, he clearly sets his stance once he backs up. He PLANNED to fuck her up if she came at him. That's why he backed up.

And who the fuck can't take a pat slap on the cheek? That's an insult, sure, but grow a sack. She's drunk, you're drunk. That doesn't mean deck her hard enough to knock her brain loose.

[Tgo01]

I have never had to hit a woman yet, but you know what? If one starts swinging at me like a man there is a really good chance she will get rocked in the grill like a man. And if you want to try to pass some moral judgement on me for my unwillingness to let somebody hit me you can fuck right off.

Fair enough.

What if the woman just looks at you with a pissed off look on her face? You going to punch her hard in the face, just in case?

[Wrathbringer]

Fair enough.

What if the woman just looks at you with a pissed off look on her face? You going to punch her hard in the face, just in case?

Absolutely. Also, what do you tell a woman with two black eyes?

[JackWhisper]

Nothing. You told her twice already.

[Sorcasaurus]

It's not self defense, it's defense of property. Being a woman, she was illegally withholding herself and her obedience from him.

[Wrathbringer]

Nothing. You told her twice already.

What? That's horrible. You tell them to seek help and that it will get better. Geez.

[Tenlaar]

What if the woman just looks at you with a pissed off look on her face? You going to punch her hard in the face, just in case?

No I wouldn't. But that is not what I see on the video, so also no to the point you are trying to make there.

[waywardgs]

Is tenlarr for real? Or is this just trolling?

[Androidpk]

Fair enough.

What if the woman just looks at you with a pissed off look on her face? You going to punch her hard in the face, just in case?

Preemptive strikes are a valid military tactic.

[JackWhisper]

Not for Obama.

[Androidpk]

Only because it conflicts with tee time.

[JackWhisper]

Red rep
You need to do a pre-emptive strike on your crack with some tp.

I laughed at the poop rep.

[Latrinsorm]

I agree. This isn't about a woman being abused, or about a man abusing his partner. It's about a man abusing a woman. If it was just about a woman being attacked people would have lost their shit when Chamique Holdsclaw attacked her GF.

Again with the "Tell me who the perp/victim is so I can decide if I care" mentality of our society.Chamique Holdsclaw hadn't played in the WNBA for 2 years when she committed her crime. Clamoring for her to lose the job she didn't have wouldn't make much sense, would it? Or even a lifetime ban from the league she'd already retired from... twice?

And strictly speaking, "people" should have lost their shit in proportion to how popular the WNBA is relative to the NFL, because people can't lose their shit if they never even hear the prompt to do so. If we go by attendance, that works out to 8,306 * 34 * (12/2) / 67,604 * 16 * (32/2) = 10% as much. If we go by TV ratings, the highest rated WNBA game got a 0.6 while the highest rated NFL game got a 9.9, so that works out to 6%. If we go by how many people identify the league as their favorite, it's at most 0.5/36 = 1.4%.

Long story short (too late) I think you have been manipulated into believing the events are equivalent in order to curry your favor. You could be a huge WNBA fan and this has been really bothering you, I guess, but I doubt it.
Preemptive strikes are a valid military tactic.I don't think fiancees are what's implied by "rules of engagement".

[Astray]

Christ Almighty that video... that should be enough to bury his career and put him in ass-rape prison.

Reiterate my statement, complete scumbag.

[Tenlaar]

Is tenlarr for real? Or is this just trolling?

Every time somebody has a differing opinion it has to be trolling! Otherwise you would have to do thinking and stuff.

[JackWhisper]

No, Tenlaar. It's not that they think you're being so incredulous, it must be trolling.


They just don't see how you could look at a video where a 250+ pound FOOTBALL PLAYER, conditioned to put a hurt on men my size, and your size, fistbumps the temple of his buck ten bitch fiancée at full speed, and you try to blame her.

They're just wondering how you justify it. Because it's never okay for that to happen. Ever.

[waywardgs]

No, Tenlaar. It's not that they think you're being so incredulous, it must be trolling.


They just don't see how you could look at a video where a 250+ pound FOOTBALL PLAYER, conditioned to put a hurt on men my size, and your size, fistbumps the temple of his buck ten bitch fiancée at full speed, and you try to blame her.

They're just wondering how you justify it. Because it's never okay for that to happen. Ever.

^

[Tenlaar]

And then I say "Show me where I said it was her fault, I have maintained the entire time that they were both at fault."

Also the idea that a woman should never be struck under any circumstances is stupid.

[Parkbandit]

Are you suggesting that hitting a spouse/gf must be done more than once to be labeled as wife beater/spousal abuse?

If it happens more than once, you either didn't hit her hard enough or she is really difficult to train.

Too soon?

[Parkbandit]

And then I say "Show me where I said it was her fault, I have maintained the entire time that they were both at fault."

Also the idea that a woman should never be struck under any circumstances is stupid.

I disagree.. but I'm one of those non-PC types that believes that women can't do everything a man can do.. especially take a punch.

Example: I don't believe we should lower our standards just so women can serve in combat positions.

[Tenlaar]

I disagree.. but I'm one of those non-PC types that believes that women can't do everything a man can do.. especially take a punch.

Well I don't believe women in general can take a punch like a man either, but that is unrelated to whether or not punching one was justified.

[Taernath]

In this situation, based on the very little I've seen, the punching doesn't seem to be justified.

There are situations where I would feel justified punching a woman, though only as a last resort.

[Tgo01]

"Show me where I said it was her fault, I have maintained the entire time that they were both at fault."

Like, right there and stuff, dude.

You're assigning her 50% of the blame for getting punched in the face then getting punched again in the face so hard it knocked her out.

You should be assigning her 0% of the blame.

Unless his wife is coming at him with a weapon he should never hit her. This has nothing to do with her being a woman and you never hit a woman. This has to do with their size and the fact they are in a supposedly loving relationship. He is at least twice her size, not to mention the average women has around 20% body fat whereas a male athlete has around 6% body fat, so not only is he twice her size but his body is made up of a lot more muscle than she is.

He could have easily killed her by punching her like that. He needs to understand his strength in relation to her size. I would say the same thing if this was a homosexual relationship and he hit a dude the same relative size as her.

If they were both football players then I wouldn't be so hard on him. I would still think he's a piece of shit though

[Tenlaar]

Like, right there and stuff, dude...You should be assigning her 0% of the blame...

Blaming them both is not the same as blaming her. You think she should be assigned 0% of the blame, I disagree because she appears to be antagonistic as well and actually started the physical aspect of the conflict.

The rest of what you said is just weird and kind of nonsensical to me. Should we start charging guys who lift weights with attempted murder if they punch an out of shape guy? Mr. Muscles clearly has a big advantage over Mr. Jiggles, he could have killed him with that punch!

Or what if I, at 6'3 and about 250 pounds, punched a guy who is 5'2 and 110 pounds? What if I punched Prince. Do I have an obligation in your eyes not to react to a threat because I can crush him under a boot?

[Tgo01]

Do I have an obligation in your eyes not to react to a threat because I can crush him under a boot?

The problem here is you used the word threat. Rice was never in any danger for his life in this scenario. Not once. Not even when his wife mercilessly hit him on the chin. So yes, if we substituted Prince for the woman and it played out the exact same way then I still think Rice should not have done what he did and I would still be assigning him 100% of the blame for the punches he threw.

Also all I said was I wouldn't be as hard on him if the person he punched was built like he was, I didn't comment on whether or not a crime was committed because regardless of each person's size a crime was indeed committed.

[Ker_Thwap]

Like, right there and stuff, dude.

You're assigning her 50% of the blame for getting punched in the face then getting punched again in the face so hard it knocked her out.

You should be assigning her 0% of the blame.

Unless his wife is coming at him with a weapon he should never hit her. This has nothing to do with her being a woman and you never hit a woman. This has to do with their size and the fact they are in a supposedly loving relationship. He is at least twice her size, not to mention the average women has around 20% body fat whereas a male athlete has around 6% body fat, so not only is he twice her size but his body is made up of a lot more muscle than she is.

He could have easily killed her by punching her like that. He needs to understand his strength in relation to her size. I would say the same thing if this was a homosexual relationship and he hit a dude the same relative size as her.

If they were both football players then I wouldn't be so hard on him. I would still think he's a piece of shit though

Without being there myself, I can assign her from 0 to 100% of the blame for starting a verbal argument, or even a little slap fight that might lead to some awesome makeup sex. However, I'll assign her 0% blame for the escalation and his decision to punch her as hard as he could in the head. I never got the impression that she was really trying to damage him.

I'm less concerned with what sex anyone was, the relative weight classes, that sort of thing. I'm concerned that one party suddenly used potentially lethal force against someone who apparently had strong feelings for him, as a means of domination, control, or whatever other kind of selfish thoughts were going through his head.

[JackWhisper]

Tell me more about this awesome makeup sex.... slowly....

[Ker_Thwap]

Tell me more about this awesome makeup sex.... slowly....

Dear Penthouse Forums,

I can't believe this happened to me, but I assure you it's a true story...

[Latrinsorm]

Blaming them both is not the same as blaming her. You think she should be assigned 0% of the blame, I disagree because she appears to be antagonistic as well and actually started the physical aspect of the conflict.

The rest of what you said is just weird and kind of nonsensical to me. Should we start charging guys who lift weights with attempted murder if they punch an out of shape guy? Mr. Muscles clearly has a big advantage over Mr. Jiggles, he could have killed him with that punch!

Or what if I, at 6'3 and about 250 pounds, punched a guy who is 5'2 and 110 pounds? What if I punched Prince. Do I have an obligation in your eyes not to react to a threat because I can crush him under a boot?It's funny you ask, because at least one NFL player has been charged with attempted murder (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9424219/ausar-walcott-cleveland-browns-rookie-arrested-tuesday-charged-attempted-murder) for punching someone in the head.

[Astray]

In this situation, based on the very little I've seen, the punching doesn't seem to be justified.

There are situations where I would feel justified punching a woman, though only as a last resort.

Where'd you watch the video?

[JackWhisper]

I watched it on Youtube. Like twelve different links, since obviously people didn't feel the need to consolidate the footage, and I wanted to see the entire thing.

[Tgo01]

It's funny you ask, because at least one NFL player has been charged with attempted murder (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9424219/ausar-walcott-cleveland-browns-rookie-arrested-tuesday-charged-attempted-murder) for punching someone in the head.


Walcott is one of 28 NFL players arrested since this year's Super Bowl on Feb. 3

Cheesus. You're good at stats and stuff Latrin; is this the typical arrest rate for the nation as a whole? Assuming we only look at people at least 18 years of age?

What about compared to other sports?

[Astray]

Well, it all boils down to both of them being aggressive, her swinging first, missing and then he hits her hard enough to make her slip. Then her head smacks into the side of the elevator and she's knocked out cold.

Real winner right there. I'd feel for her far more if she hadn't married him so she wouldn't have to testify. She'll wind up dead or in a coma at some point in the future.

[JackWhisper]

Basketball is dangerous, at least in other countries. EG: That guy who knocked the referee's eyeball out *by punching* for a call he didn't agree with.
Soccer is dangerous, especially in Europe. EG x2: The European soccer/clothing model who didn't like what a fan had to say, and jump kicked him spikes out in the face. The Manchester United fan base that rioted the last few years. Multiple deaths. OH YEAH AND in Mexico an entire town lynched a guy from a neighboring town after him and his team beat their team. That was on the news a while back. I went WTF over that. And I mean lynched. They drug the guy behind horses, beat him half to death, then strung him up to die. Just... speechless right there.
Baseball doesn't have much to go on, though there's quite a lot of public fighting from baseball stars. Nothing outstandingly world-watch worthy lately. Anyone got anything?
Football......yeaaaaaaaahhh..... USA sort of takes the cake with the stupidity of the violent tendencies in our playerbase with this sport.

Any other sports worth considering?

[JackWhisper]

So bear with me, I want to know what the PC thinks of this.

In law, Double Jeopardy prevents you from getting in trouble twice for the same crime.

The casino in question has stated today, on multiple news outlets, that they gave the *ENTIRE* video to the NFL *Goodell*.

The Ravens team has stated that it only saw the events *OUTSIDE* the elevator *AFTERWARDS*.

The NFL *Goodell*, in an effort to quash any bad publicity, got Rice a 2 game suspension as punishment for the entire incident. They KNEW what happened fully and upfront. The Ravens did NOT.

Now that the entire video has surfaced out of the NFL's control, they are punishing Rice *AGAIN* for the same thing.

Does anyone else think this is horseshit, or what?

Disregard the entire incident. He's a douche, yes. He did something unacceptable. But is it not complete hypocrisy, Goodell trying to save face by crucifying Rice now that it got out, when he tried to cover it up earlier? I mean come on. I can't be the only one who thinks this is bullshit, and a raw deal for Rice. Rice fucked up, sure, but that's just horrid on Goodell's part.

[Taernath]

I don't think double jeopardy applies to situations between non-state actors. The NFL isn't presiding over a criminal trial, nor are the Ravens.

[Tgo01]

Goodell sounds like an asshole that needs to be ousted as well.

Put me in charge. I can fuck up every day and make a fortune doing it.

[g++]

I don't think double jeopardy applies to situations between non-state actors. The NFL isn't presiding over a criminal trial, nor are the Ravens.

Interesting thing about it is that the prosecutor and judge who gave him pbj 100% did see the video but no one cares that the justice system is fucked up, everyone is enraged that a sports organization made a mistake. Kind of backward ain't it?

[Androidpk]

The NFL is full of great guys.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/jerry-jones-sued-sexual-harrassment_n_5794038.html

[Taernath]

The NFL is full of great guys.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/jerry-jones-sued-sexual-harrassment_n_5794038.html

Sorry, I was distracted by the 'woman caught publicly masturbating' side article. It even begins with "A Florida woman is being fingered for lewd and lascivious behavior after allegedly..."

[Candor]

In this country, individuals don't levy charges against another individual. That task is performed by the state. Whether Ray Rice has committed a crime is ultimately up to the courts, not the person he is accused of abusing. That's how our legal system works.

Duh.

[Thondalar]

It's funny you ask, because at least one NFL player has been charged with attempted murder (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9424219/ausar-walcott-cleveland-browns-rookie-arrested-tuesday-charged-attempted-murder) for punching someone in the head.

You don't think the outcome of this "fight" has more to do with the charges than the fact he punched someone, on it's own? Is every person who punches someone else arrested for attempted murder? The victim, in this case, is in critical condition...not sending instagrams.

[Hydra]

Chamique Holdsclaw hadn't played in the WNBA for 2 years when she committed her crime. Clamoring for her to lose the job she didn't have wouldn't make much sense, would it? Or even a lifetime ban from the league she'd already retired from... twice?

And strictly speaking, "people" should have lost their shit in proportion to how popular the WNBA is relative to the NFL, because people can't lose their shit if they never even hear the prompt to do so. If we go by attendance, that works out to 8,306 * 34 * (12/2) / 67,604 * 16 * (32/2) = 10% as much. If we go by TV ratings, the highest rated WNBA game got a 0.6 while the highest rated NFL game got a 9.9, so that works out to 6%. If we go by how many people identify the league as their favorite, it's at most 0.5/36 = 1.4%.

Long story short (too late) I think you have been manipulated into believing the events are equivalent in order to curry your favor. You could be a huge WNBA fan and this has been really bothering you, I guess, but I doubt it.

I was pointing out that a public figure chasing a woman down with a car, baseball bat, and firearm received little attention even though she was a "legendary athlete" her sport. I wouldn't expect it to be as everywhere as the Ray Rice video. I could ramble on, but lack of coffee has stifled my ability to communicate eloquently. http://sportsdroppingsusa.blogspot.com/2013/03/the-curious-case-of-chamique.html

[m444w]

I think in order give someone a label as such they'd have to do it more then once, yes. Calling someone a wife beater or spousal abuser implies a pattern, not a one time ordeal. Was him hitting her the right thing to do? No way in hell, but to make him out to be some super villain is just stupid in my eyes. Now if this wasn't the first time he has done this or he does it again, hang him out to dry.
Yeah. If you only rape a woman once you're not a raper.... oh...

You hit your wif once, you're a wife beater. That's how it works. This isn't baseball, you don't get three strikes.

[Atlanteax]

And then I say "Show me where I said it was her fault, I have maintained the entire time that they were both at fault."

Also the idea that a woman should never be struck under any circumstances is stupid.

Tenlaar and Floyd Mayweather are best buds.

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/11498043/nfl-overreacted-ray-rice-floyd-mayweather-says


"I think there's a lot worse things that go on in other people's households, also," Mayweather said. "It's just not caught on video, if that's safe to say."

...

[RichardCranium]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?75870-Bus-Driver-Uppercut&highlight=bus+driver+uppercut

Weird...


I would have hit her too.

Okay maybe not. Maybe though.

[Atlanteax]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?75870-Bus-Driver-Uppercut&highlight=bus+driver+uppercut

Weird...

From same thread:


Nice form.

[Wrathbringer]

Yeah. If you only rape a woman once you're not a raper.... oh...

You hit your wif once, you're a wife beater. That's how it works. This isn't baseball, you don't get three strikes.

a raper, huh? lol

[RichardCranium]

If you're the best at Mario Kart it means you're the best racist.

[Androidpk]

If you're the best at Mario Kart it means you're the best racist.

I'm not very good at racing but I'm good at debating. I consider myself a master debater.

[Wrathbringer]

If you're the best at Mario Kart it means you're the best racist.

I like to think I'm a pretty good racist. Probably not the best by any means but pretty good.

[Ker_Thwap]

Interesting thing about it is that the prosecutor and judge who gave him pbj 100% did see the video but no one cares that the justice system is fucked up, everyone is enraged that a sports organization made a mistake. Kind of backward ain't it?

Pfft, first words out of my mouth were calling for an investigation of the prosecutor's office.

[Jeril]

Yeah. If you only rape a woman once you're not a raper.... oh...

You hit your wif once, you're a wife beater. That's how it works. This isn't baseball, you don't get three strikes.

There is a huge difference between raping a woman and hitting a woman, trying to equate the two seems rather silly to me. Why most of you people seem to be losing your minds over this is almost beyond me.

Thread: Ray Rice suspended a whole 2 games for domestic violence
you just lost mad respect with this chauvinistic simpleton's view of man v woman abuse that plagues our world

Considering how we don't know the full story of everything between Rice and his wife I think the overreaction of he hit a woman, crucify him, is a bit extreme. And if any of you have paid one bit of attention I haven't condoned his actions nor have I said he shouldn't be punished, but destroying the man is taking things a bit too far. Quite a few seem to act like him hitting her is the worst thing in the world when there are far worse things he could do without the use of force. I'm not the one who is trying to make this a simple issue and is it really that scary of a thing to sign your rep?

[Tgo01]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?75870-Bus-Driver-Uppercut&highlight=bus+driver+uppercut

Weird...

In my defense in the same thread I also said:


From what I've read she punched him, spit in his face and placed her hands around his throat first. If all of that is true then I think the man showed great restraint. The minute anyone puts their hands around my throat they are getting thrown off my bus, if they are a gamestop employee the bus will still be in motion when I eject them.

Besides wasn't that bus drive like 70 or something?

[Ker_Thwap]

There is a huge difference between raping a woman and hitting a woman, trying to equate the two seems rather silly to me. Why most of you people seem to be losing your minds over this is almost beyond me.

Thread: Ray Rice suspended a whole 2 games for domestic violence
you just lost mad respect with this chauvinistic simpleton's view of man v woman abuse that plagues our world

Considering how we don't know the full story of everything between Rice and his wife I think the overreaction of he hit a woman, crucify him, is a bit extreme. And if any of you have paid one bit of attention I haven't condoned his actions nor have I said he shouldn't be punished, but destroying the man is taking things a bit too far. Quite a few seem to act like him hitting her is the worst thing in the world when there are far worse things he could do without the use of force. I'm not the one who is trying to make this a simple issue and is it really that scary of a thing to sign your rep?

Can we all agree that while he may have had cause to defend himself, the escalation of violence into possible fatality causing brutality was wrong?

Why do people care about anonymous rep? Rep is like a Hallmark greeting card. When you care enough to send a canned response. When you care enough to babble about something without publicly taking a stand... Possibly the worst analogy ever? Maybe.

[Tenlaar]

Can we all agree that while he may have had cause to defend himself, the escalation of violence into possible fatality causing brutality was wrong?

No, because the real escalation of violence happened accidentally. Come on, brutality? FATALITY CAUSING BRUTALITY? He punched her. He didn't keep punching her, he didn't start kicking her.

I feel like most of you have lived in bubbles your whole lives or something. Have you never seen people get in fights? Fucking brutality, get a grip.

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/14300000/Jake-Gyllenhaal-in-Bubble-Boy-jake-gyllenhaal-14313814-853-480.jpg
http://img.pandawhale.com/post-38730-will-ferrell-I-feel-like-Im-ta-014j.gif

[Tgo01]

I feel like most of you have lived in bubbles your whole lives or something. Have you never seen people get in fights? Fucking brutality, get a grip.

I can honestly say I've never seen a man punch his girlfriend before, much less punch her so hard she was knocked out.

I'll continue living in my bubble.

[Ker_Thwap]

No, because the real escalation of violence happened accidentally. Come on, brutality? FATALITY CAUSING BRUTALITY? He punched her. He didn't keep punching her, he didn't start kicking her.

I feel like most of you have lived in bubbles your whole lives or something. Have you never seen people get in fights? Fucking brutality, get a grip.

http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/14300000/Jake-Gyllenhaal-in-Bubble-Boy-jake-gyllenhaal-14313814-853-480.jpg
http://img.pandawhale.com/post-38730-will-ferrell-I-feel-like-Im-ta-014j.gif

I got in a lot of fights when I was a kid. Once I got sufficiently muscular I realized that punching someone in the side of the head with a closed fist, could indeed kill them. At this point I stopped getting in fights for my own amusement.

Would I punch someone in the side of the head like that? Sure I would, if I were also willing to risk killing them to save my own skin.

[Jeril]

Can we all agree that while he may have had cause to defend himself, the escalation of violence into possible fatality causing brutality was wrong?

Why do people care about anonymous rep? Rep is like a Hallmark greeting card. When you care enough to send a canned response. When you care enough to babble about something without publicly taking a stand... Possibly the worst analogy ever? Maybe.

I don't think he had any just cause for hitting her, period. Now it has been said several times that both were drunk which would explain his horribly poor judgement but doesn't excuse it. And he should be punished, certainly. But to the degree that some on here and others seem to be clamoring for, certainly not. If it were up to me he'd get a good beating himself and we'd call it a day.

It has been brought up that he could have possibly killed her, do we know how he reacted to this information? There is a lot we don't know and many people have already decided that he wakes up every morning thinking, "Today is a good day to beat my wife."

[Latrinsorm]

Cheesus. You're good at stats and stuff Latrin; is this the typical arrest rate for the nation as a whole? Assuming we only look at people at least 18 years of age?

What about compared to other sports?Well, arrest rate is notoriously biased against black people so we'd expect the NFL to be above the national average on that basis alone. The NFL is also unique among pro leagues in having no or hardly any internationals, so we'd expect a domestic arrest rate to be highest for their league as well. I wouldn't feel comfortable running that analysis due to those confounding factors.
I was pointing out that a public figure chasing a woman down with a car, baseball bat, and firearm received little attention even though she was a "legendary athlete" her sport. I wouldn't expect it to be as everywhere as the Ray Rice video. I could ramble on, but lack of coffee has stifled my ability to communicate eloquently. http://sportsdroppingsusa.blogspot.c...-chamique.htmlI lived in Connecticut during the height of UConn hysteria, and I didn't even remember that Holdsclaw played at Tennessee. I also think it's fair to say I'm a basketball fanatic, and I couldn't have told you anything about her career beyond that she played basketball at some point. The author makes a more reasonable comp between women's basketball and men's lacrosse (although I would disagree even with that) but there's just no comparison between women's basketball and men's football. Even before this incident, the percentage of people who could name Ray Rice's team and position would obliterate the percentage of people who even knew Holdsclaw was an athlete.
You don't think the outcome of this "fight" has more to do with the charges than the fact he punched someone, on it's own? Is every person who punches someone else arrested for attempted murder? The victim, in this case, is in critical condition...not sending instagrams.The point of contention is whether a professional football player is so physically dominant that their punches are more dangerous (and therefore legally require more restraint) than "every person". Surely we can agree that not every person is capable of putting someone in a coma with one punch.
Considering how we don't know the full story of everything between Rice and his wife I think the overreaction of he hit a woman, crucify him, is a bit extreme. And if any of you have paid one bit of attention I haven't condoned his actions nor have I said he shouldn't be punished, but destroying the man is taking things a bit too far.Then again, the depiction of "you shouldn't have this particular and highly public job" as "crucifixion" is an overreaction too, no?
Now that the entire video has surfaced out of the NFL's control, they are punishing Rice *AGAIN* for the same thing.

Does anyone else think this is horseshit, or what?I think it's a given that the NFL and Goodell in particular are openly lying to us about what they cared to know before issuing the first punishment. They're scumbags, what else is new?

[Tgo01]

Well, arrest rate is notoriously biased against black people so we'd expect the NFL to be above the national average on that basis alone. The NFL is also unique among pro leagues in having no or hardly any internationals, so we'd expect a domestic arrest rate to be highest for their league as well. I wouldn't feel comfortable running that analysis due to those confounding factors.I lived in Connecticut during the height of UConn hysteria, and I didn't even remember that Holdsclaw played at Tennessee. I also think it's fair to say I'm a basketball fanatic, and I couldn't have told you anything about her career beyond that she played basketball at some point. The author makes a more reasonable comp between women's basketball and men's lacrosse (although I would disagree even with that) but there's just no comparison between women's basketball and men's football. Even before this incident, the percentage of people who could name Ray Rice's team and position would obliterate the percentage of people who even knew Holdsclaw was an athlete.The point of contention is whether a professional football player is so physically dominant that their punches are more dangerous (and therefore legally require more restraint) than "every person". Surely we can agree that not every person is capable of putting someone in a coma with one punch.Then again, the depiction of "you shouldn't have this particular and highly public job" as "crucifixion" is an overreaction too, no?I think it's a given that the NFL and Goodell in particular are openly lying to us about what they cared to know before issuing the first punishment. They're scumbags, what else is new?

What's the matter, Colonel Sanders? Chicken?

[Jeril]

Then again, the depiction of "you shouldn't have this particular and highly public job" as "crucifixion" is an overreaction too, no?

Except that isn't the only thing people have said.

[Latrinsorm]

Except that isn't the only thing people have said.I looked back in the thread for your "quite a few" and found no one advocating for a harsher sentence - zero people. If you have any citations I'll be glad to revise my statement.

[Astray]

I'd be advocating a harsher sentence if she wasn't actively protecting her goldmine of an abuser.

Said it once, she's going to be dead or in a coma at some point because of this scumbag.

[RichardCranium]

I'd be advocating a harsher sentence if she wasn't actively protecting her goldmine of an abuser.

Said it once, she's going to be dead or in a coma at some point because of this scumbag.

Do you own a jump to conclusions mat?

[Wrathbringer]

Well, arrest rate is notoriously biased against black people so we'd expect the NFL to be above the national average on that basis alone...

...or we could take the arrest data at face value and conclude that blacks commit more crimes, or are easier to catch, or perhaps both. That makes too much sense tho, right?

[Jeril]

I looked back in the thread for your "quite a few" and found no one advocating for a harsher sentence - zero people. If you have any citations I'll be glad to revise my statement.


Drunk is I. He still lost the court of public opinion. She could (and should) sue the ever living hell out of him.


Heres hoping the multiple civil court cases drain his family dry.


Christ Almighty that video... that should be enough to bury his career and put him in ass-rape prison.

Reiterate my statement, complete scumbag.

There are those quotes and I can also go through and quote everyone trying to vilify Rice if you want, which is a moral crucifixion.

[Androidpk]

There are those quotes and I can also go through and quote everyone trying to vilify Rice if you want, which is a moral crucifixion.


My quote is in regards to Ethan Couch, not Ray Rice.

[Ardwen]

Apparently a police source is refuting Gooddell's claim noone at the NFL saw the video, this is getting uglier

[Tgo01]

Congress probes NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Ray Rice case (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/09/10/roger-goodell-congress-letter-john-conyers-ray-rice/15394317/)


Twelve House of Representatives Judiciary Committee Democrats sent a letter to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell Wednesday demanding "the highest level of transparency" concerning how the league investigated the Ray Rice domestic violence incident.

Goodell made clear in interviews Tuesday night with USA TODAY Sports and CBS that he does not feel his job is in jeopardy.

But clearly his handling of the Rice domestic violence issue is not going away and is reminiscent of the heat Congress and the House have increased on Goodell over changing the offensive nature of the Washington Redskins team name.

In relation to the graphic Revel Casino elevator video showing Rice striking his then-fiance (now wife) Janay Palmer on Feb. 15, Wednesday's letter stamped with the official Congress of the United States House of Representative letterhead demanded that Goodell reveal more about the league's investigative efforts to obtain the video acquired and aired by the TMZ website.

The letter said domestic violence "unfortunately impacts every level of our society ... and our professional sports leagues are important economic and cultural institutions in the United States and we are interested in the manner in which these leagues handle incidence of domestic violence by their players, owners and other employees."

The Judiciary committee Democrats did not let Goodell off the hook despite his public comments Tuesday night, saying the league tried to reach out via law enforcement but was denied access to the elevator video.

"Thus for example, while we understand that you have stated in an interview yesterday on behalf of the NFL that, 'We assumed that there was a video, we asked for the video, we asked for anything that was pertinent, but we were never granted that opportunity,' to our knowledge the public has not been informed as to specifically how and in what context the request was made," the letter said. "And specifically how relevant law enforcement responded. Nor has there been a full explanation as to whether the video was requested of others, such as Mr. Rice's attorney or the casino where the incident occurred (and if not, why not), or whether any employees, agents, or consultants of the league or any of its teams outside of your office had access to the video prior to September 8. We therefore urge greater transparency and explanations on these matters."

The letter went on to praise Goodell for his "willingness to change the NFL's policies regarding issues of domestic violence," adding, "We also believe other major professional sports leagues should consider making their policies public and reviews transparent as well."

The letter concluded by saying the House Judiciary Committee Democrats look forward to working with the NFL and other major professional sports leagues "so that we can all participate in the effort to reduce incidents of domestic violence, increase transparency in their review and better respond to those cases that unfortunately do occur."

The letter was signed by chairman John Conyers and 11 other Democrats and also sent to the commissioners of the National Hockey League, Major League Soccer, Major League Baseball and the National Basketball Association.

FULL COPY OF CONGRESSIONAL LETTER TO ROGER GOODELL

Dear Commissioner Goodell:

We write concerning the important issue of domestic violence, which unfortunately impacts every level of our society, and which we must find ways to combat comprehensively. Our professional sports leagues are important economic and cultural institutions in the United States and we are interested in the manner in which these leagues handle incidents of domestic violence by their players, owners, and other employees. We believe that these high-profile professional leagues are, in many ways, in a position of public trust and should be at the forefront of handling such incidents appropriately.

With this year marking the 20th anniversary of the enactment of the Violence Against Women Act, we all recognize that this issue requires strengthened and sustained efforts by individuals, organizations, and government. Of course, we are particularly concerned about information that has come to light about the perpetration of domestic violence by one of the NFL's players, Ray Rice, against his then-fiancee, Janay Palmer, in an elevator at the Revel Casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey on February 15, 2014.

Given the important role the NFL and the other major professional sports leagues can play in shaping public perceptions concerning domestic violence, it would appear to be in the public interest to have the highest level of transparency associated with reviews of potential misconduct.

Thus for example, while we understand that you have stated in an interview yesterday on behalf of the NFL that, "We assumed that there was a video, we asked for the video, we asked for anything that was pertinent, but we were never granted that opportunity," to our knowledge the public has not been informed as to specifically how and in what context the request was made, and specifically how relevant law enforcement responded. Nor has there been a full explanation as to whether the video was requested of others, such as Mr. Rice's attorney or the casino where the incident occurred (and if not, why not), or whether any employees, agents, or consultants of the league or any of its teams outside of your office had access to the video prior to September 8. We therefore urge greater transparency and explanations of these matters.

We welcome your recent willingness to change the NFL's policies regarding issues of domestic violence, and we also believe other major professional sports leagues should consider making their policies public and reviews transparent as well. We look forward to working with you and all of the major professional sports leagues so that we can all participate in the effort to reduce incidents of domestic violence, increase transparency in their review, and better respond to those cases that unfortunately do occur.

Sincerely,

Rep. John Conyers Jr. (Mich.), House Judiciary Committee Ranking Member
Rep. Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.)
Rep. Luis Gutierrez (Ill.)
Rep. Zoe Lofgren (Calif.)
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (Texas)
Rep. Cedric L. Richmond (La.)
Rep. Henry C. "Hank" Johnson Jr. (Ga.)
Rep. Steve Cohen (Tenn.)
Rep. Judy Chu (Calif.)
Rep. Karen Bass (Calif.)
Rep. Suzan K. DelBene (Wash.)
Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (N.Y.)

cc: CC: The Honorable Bob Goodlatte, Chairman, House Committee on the Judiciary; Mr. Gary Bettman, Commissioner, National Hockey League; Mr. Don Garber, commissioner, Major League Soccer; Mr. Bud Selig, Commissioner, Major League Baseball; Mr. Adam Silver, Commissioner, National Basketball Association

Give me a break. While I agree Rice is a piece of shit and should be banned from the NFL, and for that matter any professional sports league, why are members of Congress giving the NFL shit over this? Maybe they should be focused on the prosecutor and judge who let the asshole off with basically a warning.

Oh right, elections are around the corner.

[SHAFT]

Apparently a police source is refuting Gooddell's claim noone at the NFL saw the video, this is getting uglier

This could very well be the end of gooddell.

[SHAFT]

Congress probes NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Ray Rice case (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/09/10/roger-goodell-congress-letter-john-conyers-ray-rice/15394317/)



Give me a break. While I agree Rice is a piece of shit and should be banned from the NFL, and for that matter any professional sports league, why are members of Congress giving the NFL shit over this? Maybe they should be focused on the prosecutor and judge who let the asshole off with basically a warning.

Oh right, elections are around the corner.

Remember when they got involved in the steroid issue in MLB?

[Tgo01]

Remember when they got involved in the steroid issue in MLB?

Honestly no, I don't usually pay attention to sports :/

[Wrathbringer]

Congress probes NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Ray Rice case (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2014/09/10/roger-goodell-congress-letter-john-conyers-ray-rice/15394317/)



Give me a break. While I agree Rice is a piece of shit and should be banned from the NFL, and for that matter any professional sports league, why are members of Congress giving the NFL shit over this? Maybe they should be focused on the prosecutor and judge who let the asshole off with basically a warning.

Oh right, elections are around the corner.

To be fair, they don't really have a lot to do while obummer is in charge. Your tax dollars at work.

[Wrathbringer]

Honestly no, I don't usually pay attention to sports :/

Or baseball.

[Tgo01]

Or baseball.

I see what you did there.

[Gompers]

If it comes out that they are lying about seeing the video, the NFL is gonna have 99 problems - this bitch being one of them.

RIP Goodell

[RichardCranium]

Fuck Roger Goodell. I hope he gets the ax.

[Tgo01]

RIP Goodell

Yeah. Sure looks like Goodell was trying to save his own ass by throwing Rice to the wolves.

They should both fry now.

[Latrinsorm]

This could very well be the end of gooddell.The irony is that he openly lied about the head trauma that crippled who knows how many hundreds of players with no repercussions, he openly lies about the head trauma that didn't even sway the fiancee from going through with the engagement and THAT's what's going to end his career.
There are those quotes and I can also go through and quote everyone trying to vilify Rice if you want, which is a moral crucifixion.I'll give you Astray, although how seriously you can take Gundam meister is up to you. Gelston was drunk (redundant), Andy opined on civil cases which I would say aren't covered by the verb "sentence".

[Gompers]

Yeah. Sure looks like Goodell was trying to save his own ass by throwing Rice to the wolves.


My money's on Goodell throwing a receptionist under the bus in the next 24 hours.

[Johnny Five]

Are donkey punches considered domestic abuse?

[Whirlin]

Are donkey punches considered domestic abuse?
It's how Jeril got suspended from Gemstone.

[Androidpk]

It's how Jeril got suspended from Gemstone.

Jeril forgot the loophole. Yell surprise before you punch them in the poophole.

[Astray]

Do you own a jump to conclusions mat?

Yes. It's trimmed in gold and the center is a giant fist.

[SHAFT]

My money's on Goodell throwing a receptionist under the bus in the next 24 hours.

Yeah, they're currently discussing who the fall guy will be.

[SHAFT]

I'm not the only person saying this or that has said it, but why do networks keep showing the video? The entire video is still being shown on espn. The entire world is railing against ray rice and domestic violence and television networks continue to show it. It's blatantly being used for ratings and to me it's nearly as bad as the original act! Especially after the victim in the video had come out against the showing of the video. I do not want to see that woman get socked in the face again espn. Fuck

[Wrathbringer]

I'm not the only person saying this or that has said it, but why do networks keep showing the video? The entire video is still being shown on espn. The entire world is railing against ray rice and domestic violence and television networks continue to show it. It's blatantly being used for ratings and to me it's nearly as bad as the original act! Especially after the victim in the video had come out against the showing of the video. I do not want to see that woman get socked in the face again espn. Fuck

So turn off the tv?

[Androidpk]

Ratings trump morality and ethics.

[SHAFT]

I feel bad for janay rice. She's being used for ratings. There are a lot of problems with America, but shit like this is a major one. Like PK said, ratings=money>morality, people, ethics. It is what it is.

[waywardgs]

There are those quotes and I can also go through and quote everyone trying to vilify Rice if you want, which is a moral crucifixion.

Trying to vilify Rice? He knocked his wife out cold. He vilified himself.

[waywardgs]

I'm not the only person saying this or that has said it, but why do networks keep showing the video? The entire video is still being shown on espn. The entire world is railing against ray rice and domestic violence and television networks continue to show it. It's blatantly being used for ratings and to me it's nearly as bad as the original act! Especially after the victim in the video had come out against the showing of the video. I do not want to see that woman get socked in the face again espn. Fuck

There is a culture of silence regarding spousal abuse and it's been that way for a long time. Play that video on repeat. This is not acceptable by any stretch.