Obama promises justice

[Dwaar]

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-promises-to-ensure--justice-is-done--for-michael-brown-173136668.html

Shame he doesn't care about the 30+ people killed every weekend in Chicago this much.

[Latrinsorm]

Chicago police don't kill 30+ unarmed people every weekend. It's like 10 or 15, tops.

[Tenlaar]

Nothing new here. He was also very concerned about Trayvon Martin being killed but didn't seem so worried about the, what, ten or fifteen thousand other people murdered in the US just while the Zimmerman trial was going on.

[Parkbandit]

Nothing new here. He was also very concerned about Trayvon Martin being killed but didn't seem so worried about the, what, ten or fifteen thousand other people murdered in the US just while the Zimmerman trial was going on.

In his defense.. Trayvon could have been like his son.

[Dwaar]

In his defense.. Trayvon could have been like his son.

Wait.. one of his daughters is really a boy??

Odd... because a white kid could be like his son too... considering he's half white.

[Warriorbird]

This whole "he doesn't care about it" claim is interesting. What magical goalpost shifting action could he have done to "care about" those people in your eyes?

[Dwaar]

This whole "he doesn't care about it" claim is interesting. What magical goalpost shifting action could he have done to "care about" those people in your eyes?

What magical goalpost shifting action could he do to "care about" this one individual?

[Methais]

Wait.. one of his daughters is really a boy??

Odd... because a white kid could be like his son too... considering he's half white.

How many times have you heard Obama referred to as the first half white president?

[Thondalar]

Nothing new here. He was also very concerned about Trayvon Martin being killed but didn't seem so worried about the, what, ten or fifteen thousand other people murdered in the US just while the Zimmerman trial was going on.

C'mon, man. You're an intelligent fellow. You can't honestly think it was anything other than publicity.

Wasn't Zimmerman acquitted by a jury of his peers? Where was Obama's outrage over that? I mean, he spoke out so publicly before the trial...seemed to me like Zimmerman was guilty as shit. But yet he was found not guilty...and he didn't even have OJ's lawyers!

[Tenlaar]

Oh I'm fully aware it was publicity. Believe me, I'm one of those rare people that would generally be lumped into the "liberal" group but is fully aware that Obama is nothing but another in a long line of liars who has no real interest in doing what is best for the American people.

I find it pretty disgusting that the only violence I've seen him have a press conference about or even make note of is when a black teenager has been killed by somebody who isn't also black. I wasn't kidding about the number of murders that occurred while the Zimmerman trial was going on, though I should actually drop the "ten to" part. It was closer to 15,000 and that shit is what he should have been making statements to the press about instead of focusing on a single person.

[Thondalar]

Oh I'm fully aware it was publicity. Believe me, I'm one of those rare people that would generally be lumped into the "liberal" group but is fully aware that Obama is nothing but another in a long line of liars who has no real interest in doing what is best for the American people.

I find it pretty disgusting that the only violence I've seen him have a press conference about or even make note of is when a black teenager has been killed by somebody who isn't also black. I wasn't kidding about the number of murders that occurred while the Zimmerman trial was going on, though I should actually drop the "ten to" part. It was closer to 15,000 and that shit is what he should have been making statements to the press about instead of focusing on a single person.

I'm actually glad to hear you express this sentiment, we're on the same page for at least this...however I would ask that you qualify your stats a bit...are you saying 15k murdered in general, or 15k murdered by gun...I'm really not trying to undermine your point here at all, because I think it's valid regardless of the stats...just trying to make sure we're on the same page.

[Dwaar]

Oh I'm fully aware it was publicity. Believe me, I'm one of those rare people that would generally be lumped into the "liberal" group but is fully aware that Obama is nothing but another in a long line of liars who has no real interest in doing what is best for the American people.

I find it pretty disgusting that the only violence I've seen him have a press conference about or even make note of is when a black teenager has been killed by somebody who isn't also black. I wasn't kidding about the number of murders that occurred while the Zimmerman trial was going on, though I should actually drop the "ten to" part. It was closer to 15,000 and that shit is what he should have been making statements to the press about instead of focusing on a single person.

Excellent points and refreshing to hear. Let me preface what I'm about to say with... I understand there is a difference for all races (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.) in culture, heritage, discrimination, etc. Sadly some people still base their perceptions on the skin color/ethnicity of someone... that being said...

I really hope we could look at people as just people. In this incident... a cop shot a teenager. I don't know the full facts, and at this time, no one really knows exactly what occurred. I try to look at the actions that occurred between two people... not what their color was.

The same goes for all of the violence that occurs, for example, in Chicago. Are they mostly black on black killings? They are. But I try not to consider it based on race. There are people just killing people. It is wrong. Regardless if it was white on white, white on black, black on white, black on black, etc. I think if we as a society just make it a baseline and try to focus on the "actions" that occur, and not what segment of "people" do it... we could go a long way.

If A occurs, then B will occur. Simple. Of course human nature will not allow us to ever get to this point, but I can hope.

Not sure if that makes sense like it does in my mind when I think about it, but hopefully the idea is expressed ok.

[Dwaar]

As a side note... to many people look for a reason, or an excuse, or a motive, or a way to explain why someone did something.

Why do people riot and vandalize after an event like this? Who cares /shrug. Should they be? Does their violent reaction to a tragedy make it okay for them to terrorize neighborhoods?

For example....

Why do people sexually abuse children? Who cares with regards to prosecuting them? I understand they need to be researched to look for indicators in order to hopefully identify others for apprehension, but when it comes to prosecuting them... who cares what their reasons were for doing it? Either abusing a child is wrong... or its not. I think it is... I hope most do... so take the emotion out of it... and make it simple....

You sexually abuse a child... you will be jailed for life. Who cares about the perpetrators reasons or excuses. Don't give them the time of day.

Now I'm just rambling...

[Parkbandit]

Oh I'm fully aware it was publicity. Believe me, I'm one of those rare people that would generally be lumped into the "liberal" group but is fully aware that Obama is nothing but another in a long line of liars who has no real interest in doing what is best for the American people.

You know.. I'm actually going to disagree with this. I honestly believe that Obama does have an interest in doing what is best for the American people.. the problem lies with the difference between what he believes is best and what many of us believe is best. Absolutely, he's a politician and therefore lies... just like any politician.


I find it pretty disgusting that the only violence I've seen him have a press conference about or even make note of is when a black teenager has been killed by somebody who isn't also black. I wasn't kidding about the number of murders that occurred while the Zimmerman trial was going on, though I should actually drop the "ten to" part. It was closer to 15,000 and that shit is what he should have been making statements to the press about instead of focusing on a single person.

The other 15,000 murders were unable to push an agenda... be it gun control or racism. In this respect, he doesn't really care about the situation.. but what he can gain FROM the situation.

[Whirlin]

Every politician is going to make statements to push their own agendas as a result of the occurrences in Ferguson. The game of politics is really who does it best, and what messages resounds most strongly with the people.



I actually need to give props to Rand Paul for actually having the balls to step up and call them out on their bullshit, I'm just dissapointed more haven't stepped up.

As I continue my google-fu, Props to the democratic senator of Missouri cursing out the governor:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/missouri-state-sen-angrily-tweets-fck-you-at-governor-over-ferguson/

[Parkbandit]

Every politician is going to make statements to push their own agendas as a result of the occurrences in Ferguson. The game of politics is really who does it best, and what messages resounds most strongly with the people.

I actually need to give props to Rand Paul for actually having the balls to step up and call them out on their bullshit, I'm just dissapointed more haven't stepped up.

His seems to have resounded the most so far. Obama, on the other hand, made his statement about the situation.. then went out to party and dance the night away.



As I continue my google-fu, Props to the democratic senator of Missouri cursing out the governor:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/missouri-state-sen-angrily-tweets-fck-you-at-governor-over-ferguson/

Props for swearing? I don't know either.. but she didn't come across as a very stable person.. especially given her elected position.

[Laviticas]

The officer that shot and killed this wannabe gangster6882

[Parkbandit]

The officer that shot and killed this wannabe gangster6882

No way.. the officer that killed that unarmed black teenager was white because he did it because he was a racist.

COVERUP!

[Atlanteax]

Well, the rabble rabble rage will just shift from "RACISTS KILLED A POOR INNOCENT BLACK KID!!" to "POLICE BRUTALITY KILLED A POOR INNOCENT BLACK KID!!" now...

[Parkbandit]

It's black on black crime.. nothing to see here.

Poor Sharpton.. that guy can't catch a break!

[Gelston]

I picture batman saying Justice when I see this thread title.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Side note - Obama was back on the golf course within 6 minutes of his statement to the press after he condemned the police for excessive force.

You can tell how much it affected him!

[Tenlaar]

I'm actually glad to hear you express this sentiment, we're on the same page for at least this...however I would ask that you qualify your stats a bit...are you saying 15k murdered in general, or 15k murdered by gun...I'm really not trying to undermine your point here at all, because I think it's valid regardless of the stats...just trying to make sure we're on the same page.

Murder and non-negligent manslaughter in general, not just limited to gun violence. A bit of imprecise extrapolation due to statistics being on a yearly basis and the trial lasting a little over 500 days but it illustrates the point well enough.

I also don't put more focus on the weapon used than the action or have a fear of guns (though I do have a fear of how some people feel about guns). I was shooting a Smith & Wesson 9mm just yesterday.

[Tgo01]

Side note - Obama was back on the golf course within 6 minutes of his statement to the press after he condemned the police for excessive force.

You can tell how much it affected him!

To be fair I heard he was slicing to the left more often than usual.

[Whirlin]

Side note - Obama was back on the golf course within 6 minutes of his statement to the press after he condemned the police for excessive force.

You can tell how much it affected him!

Would you rather have a president that takes everything hyperpersonally, and can't do anything else in the wake of any event ever?

[Tenlaar]

The same goes for all of the violence that occurs, for example, in Chicago. Are they mostly black on black killings? They are. But I try not to consider it based on race. There are people just killing people. It is wrong. Regardless if it was white on white, white on black, black on white, black on black, etc. I think if we as a society just make it a baseline and try to focus on the "actions" that occur, and not what segment of "people" do it... we could go a long way.

I really wish that racial descriptors had just never been invented. Can you imagine how different the world might be if humans had never started thinking of each other as anything other than "another human?" Ah, dreams.

And it's interesting (in a not good way) how the murder statistics kind of show how segregated the US still is. A lot of people want to talk about how prevalent black on black crime is yet don't seem to grasp that something like 85% of white murder victims are also murdered by other white people. People are generally murdered by people they know and all that.

[Tgo01]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f0mVn0HH6U

[JackWhisper]

Mothafuckas burnin' down Shanaynay's hair salon for the extensions! SHIT son!

[Parkbandit]

Fucking Uncle Toms piss me off...

[Atlanteax]

KID WAS A THIEF!!!!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"BUSH AND THE REST OF THE WHITEYS MADE HIM STEAL ... BURN EVERYTHING IN TOWN DOWN!!!"

(seems to 'explain' why Brown and the (black) officer was wrestling prior to the officer resorting to shooting)

[AnticorRifling]

KID WAS A THIEF!!!!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

"BUSH AND THE REST OF THE WHITEYS MADE HIM STEAL ... BURN EVERYTHING IN TOWN DOWN!!!"

(seems to 'explain' why Brown and the (black) officer was wrestling prior to the officer resorting to shooting)

Stealing, and the color of the officer's skin still do not make the shooting a correct action.

[JackWhisper]

Not to mention these cops keep trying to spin different bullshit on top of it to absolve the guy who shot this kid.

I call party foul. Cops are in the wrong the second they lied.

[AnticorRifling]

Not to mention these cops keep trying to spin different bullshit on top of it to absolve the guy who shot this kid.

I call party foul. Cops are in the wrong the second they lied.

Correct.

Mistakes happen, sure we get that but as an officer of the law part of the job is carrying the burden of extra consequences and penalties for your mistakes. This goes hand in hand with the extra liberties awarded to enforce the law. When you try and keep the liberties without the consequences for mistakes and wrongful actions you are no longer functioning as an efficient police officer or police force.

[Candor]

Stealing, and the color of the officer's skin still do not make the shooting a correct action.

True, but if the suspect attacked the officer and went for his weapon, that is a different scenario.

However from what I've seen reported, this incident is not passing the smell test. Certainly there must be a full investigation before making any decisions about the officer, but if he acted improperly, charges must be brought against him. If the police attempt to cover up anything, things are going to get nasty.

[Latrinsorm]

Excellent points and refreshing to hear. Let me preface what I'm about to say with... I understand there is a difference for all races (white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.) in culture, heritage, discrimination, etc. Sadly some people still base their perceptions on the skin color/ethnicity of someone... that being said...

I really hope we could look at people as just people. In this incident... a cop shot a teenager. I don't know the full facts, and at this time, no one really knows exactly what occurred. I try to look at the actions that occurred between two people... not what their color was.

The same goes for all of the violence that occurs, for example, in Chicago. Are they mostly black on black killings? They are. But I try not to consider it based on race. There are people just killing people. It is wrong. Regardless if it was white on white, white on black, black on white, black on black, etc. I think if we as a society just make it a baseline and try to focus on the "actions" that occur, and not what segment of "people" do it... we could go a long way.

If A occurs, then B will occur. Simple. Of course human nature will not allow us to ever get to this point, but I can hope.

Not sure if that makes sense like it does in my mind when I think about it, but hopefully the idea is expressed ok.You dismiss the discrimination, but allow me to remind you (some of) what exists today: racial wage gap, racial sentencing disparity, racial gap in police response. It's not black peoples' fault that they are disproportionately targeted, it's not their responsibility to fix it, and it's probably not even within their power as a minority in a republican system. You want the change, be the change. Campaign for police reform, campaign for judicial reform, campaign for economic reform, most of all campaign for serious and robust methods of tracking these phenomena. Otherwise you're watching a man get knee capped, offering to race him on a level playing field, and shaking your head in sad disappointment that he doesn't appreciate your fair and noble gesture. You wonder why he rolls his eyes?

[AnticorRifling]

True, but if the suspect attacked the officer and went for his weapon, that is a different scenario.

However from what I've seen reported, this incident is not passing the smell test. Certainly there must be a full investigation before making any decisions about the officer, but if he acted improperly, charges must be brought against him. If the police attempt to cover up anything, things are going to get nasty.

No time for investigations, too busy getting this blu ray player out of this shop that isn't related to the act.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Would you rather have a president that takes everything hyperpersonally, and can't do anything else in the wake of any event ever?

Actually, I'd prefer he not launch a federal investigation into a small town incident until the local authorities have had a minute to mess it up...

[Jeril]

You dismiss the discrimination, but allow me to remind you (some of) what exists today: racial wage gap, racial sentencing disparity, racial gap in police response. It's not black peoples' fault that they are disproportionately targeted, it's not their responsibility to fix it, and it's probably not even within their power as a minority in a republican system. You want the change, be the change. Campaign for police reform, campaign for judicial reform, campaign for economic reform, most of all campaign for serious and robust methods of tracking these phenomena. Otherwise you're watching a man get knee capped, offering to race him on a level playing field, and shaking your head in sad disappointment that he doesn't appreciate your fair and noble gesture. You wonder why he rolls his eyes?

How do you manage to miss education reform in your list making when it is the most important one?

[Latrinsorm]

How do you manage to miss education reform in your list making when it is the most important one?WB does this too, and it's baffling. How can anything be more important than innocent people getting murdered by police? You can't educate a corpse.

Putting that aside, allow me to remind you that I prefaced all my comments with "some of". Feel free to campaign to fix even more of the racial discrimination that exists today! I won't stop you! I respect your First Amendment rights, I'm not a Ferguson police officer.

[Jeril]

WB does this too, and it's baffling. How can anything be more important than innocent people getting murdered by police? You can't educate a corpse.

Putting that aside, allow me to remind you that I prefaced all my comments with "some of". Feel free to campaign to fix even more of the racial discrimination that exists today! I won't stop you! I respect your First Amendment rights, I'm not a Ferguson police officer.

Don't you think there would be less innocent people murdered by the cops if they had better education and training? And if people were better educated in general that there would be less opportunities for cops to be put into situations where they make the wrong choices? There are quite a few people who will push the red button even with all the reasons in the world not to, much easier to keep them away from the red button in the first place.

[Atlanteax]

Don't you think there would be less innocent people murdered by the cops if they had better education and training? And if people were better educated in general that there would be less opportunities for cops to be put into situations where they make the wrong choices? There are quite a few people who will push the red button even with all the reasons in the world not to, much easier to keep them away from the red button in the first place.

As WB will probably acknowledge, there are times that you just cannot teach stupid (of all race/color). So more education is not necessarily the answer, but more proactive parents are. If parents only pay lip-service to education, the kids' attitude in school will reflect that (indifference despite best efforts of teachers).

Incidentally, it is generally stupid people engaging in risky/foolish behavior that ends up in the news. TM should had known better, Zimmerman should had known better... both Brown and Cop should had known better (no attempted robbery & better handling of attempting to make an arrest).

[Jeril]

As WB will probably acknowledge, there are times that you just cannot teach stupid (of all race/color). So more education is not necessarily the answer, but more proactive parents are. If parents only pay lip-service to education, the kids' attitude in school will reflect that (indifference despite best efforts of teachers).

Incidentally, it is generally stupid people engaging in risky/foolish behavior that ends up in the news. TM should had known better, Zimmerman should had known better... both Brown and Cop should had known better (no attempted robbery & better handling of attempting to make an arrest).

I didn't say more education, I said better. If I feed you shit, feeding you more isn't really changing the situation but if I started feeding you pie instead, it is a different story.

[JackWhisper]

Jeril.... what's it matter what you feed him? It's all drugged.

[Latrinsorm]

Don't you think there would be less innocent people murdered by the cops if they had better education and training? And if people were better educated in general that there would be less opportunities for cops to be put into situations where they make the wrong choices? There are quite a few people who will push the red button even with all the reasons in the world not to, much easier to keep them away from the red button in the first place.No. If the police officer can know for sure you're not armed, he wouldn't shoot you. If he has to guess, he's eventually going to guess wrong no matter how well trained, and it's more likely he guesses wrong when society tells him to. The only road to safety is surveillance, and even that is only in the sense of the best of possible roads.

[Jeril]

No. If the police officer can know for sure you're not armed, he wouldn't shoot you. If he has to guess, he's eventually going to guess wrong no matter how well trained, and it's more likely he guesses wrong when society tells him to. The only road to safety is surveillance, and even that is only in the sense of the best of possible roads.

So, you aren't really interested in the betterment of people, just pushing your need for safety above all else on the rest of us, got it.

[Atlanteax]

No. If the police officer can know for sure you're not armed, he wouldn't shoot you. If he has to guess, he's eventually going to guess wrong no matter how well trained, and it's more likely he guesses wrong when society tells him to. The only road to safety is surveillance, and even that is only in the sense of the best of possible roads.

If they have to guess, I think they're trained to assume armed ?

[Latrinsorm]

So, you aren't really interested in the betterment of people, just pushing your need for safety above all else on the rest of us, got it.Not mine, Michael Brown's. After WB is done asking them, you can ask his family whether it would be coddling or nanny state for him to still be alive today.
If they have to guess, I think they're trained to assume armed ?And then innocent people get killed. That's no good.

[Dwaar]

You dismiss the discrimination, but allow me to remind you (some of) what exists today: racial wage gap, racial sentencing disparity, racial gap in police response. It's not black peoples' fault that they are disproportionately targeted, it's not their responsibility to fix it, and it's probably not even within their power as a minority in a republican system. You want the change, be the change. Campaign for police reform, campaign for judicial reform, campaign for economic reform, most of all campaign for serious and robust methods of tracking these phenomena. Otherwise you're watching a man get knee capped, offering to race him on a level playing field, and shaking your head in sad disappointment that he doesn't appreciate your fair and noble gesture. You wonder why he rolls his eyes?

I actually did mention discrimination... reread it.

As for your point... the fact that you make the statement... "it's not black peoples' fault they are targeted, it's not their responsibility to fix it, or it's not in their power".... really? Because I see and know plenty of black Americans that seem to do just fine in the US. So why are they able to do well, and other blacks aren't? Seems Eric Holder, Barack Obama, Jay-z, and others are doing okay. Or is the "white man republican system" keeping them down too?

You're defending, or as I'm reading implying, that a segment of society (blacks) have more right to act badly, or should be excused for rioting, looting, and burning down businesses... because it's not their responsibility. That is asinine.

I stated... look at the actions of a person. Forget their skin color, their heritage. If they steal, lie, rob, cheat, kill.... then prosecute them. Simple. This goes for those with and without money also. Money being the much larger issue than race these days in my opinion when it comes to prosecutorial disparities.

Now explain this to me.... how are the 10 most violent cities in the US... per Forbes http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/1-detroit/ ..... all ran by Democrats (liberals - apparently the champions of African Americans)... and predominately black, or large population concentrations of blacks (so by % they should hold a majority of the key positions in the city - if they're qualified of course)....

So using your logic.... if we populated a whole city... lets say.. Oakland... Only blacks are allowed in Oakland. Only blacks can run the city administration. Only a liberal black can be the mayor. Would that then solve the issue? STATISTICALLY speaking... would that city then have no problems? More problems? Less problems? Would it still be our "republican system" that explains anything that occurs inside that city?

Disregarding ANYONEs actions, based solely on their skin color is absurd in my viewpoint. We should be fair across the board, and judge people based on their actions. You wonder why I roll my eyes at you?

[Latrinsorm]

I actually did mention discrimination... reread it.Yes you mentioned it, and then you dismissed it. Had you not mentioned it all I would have used "ignore".
As for your point... the fact that you make the statement... "it's not black peoples' fault they are targeted, it's not their responsibility to fix it, or it's not in their power".... really? Because I see and know plenty of black Americans that seem to do just fine in the US. So why are they able to do well, and other blacks aren't? Seems Eric Holder, Barack Obama, Jay-z, and others are doing okay. Or is the "white man republican system" keeping them down too?Nobody hits everything they target. When you tell your boss "we're targeting 10% year over year growth in our rate of repressing minorities because we're white ha ha ha", does that mean you have already achieved that goal? Of course not.
You're defending, or as I'm reading implying, that a segment of society (blacks) have more right to act badly, or should be excused for rioting, looting, and burning down businesses... because it's not their responsibility. That is asinine.I'm doing neither of those.
Now explain this to me.... how are the 10 most violent cities in the US... per Forbes http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlj45jggj/1-detroit/ ..... all ran by Democrats (liberals - apparently the champions of African Americans)... and predominately black, or large population concentrations of blacks (so by % they should hold a majority of the key positions in the city - if they're qualified of course)....

So using your logic.... if we populated a whole city... lets say.. Oakland... Only blacks are allowed in Oakland. Only blacks can run the city administration. Only a liberal black can be the mayor. Would that then solve the issue? STATISTICALLY speaking... would that city then have no problems? More problems? Less problems? Would it still be our "republican system" that explains anything that occurs inside that city?Of course the past would still be relevant. All things take time to change.
Disregarding ANYONEs actions, based solely on their skin color is absurd in my viewpoint. We should be fair across the board, and judge people based on their actions. You wonder why I roll my eyes at you?I know very well why: because you are for whatever reason incapable of reading what I actually write. First interpreting the Fatimid Caliphate as a contemporary polity, now interpreting a criticism of racial discrimination as a license for any misbehavior. These aren't just leaps of logic, you've gone into hyperspace. At ludicrous speed.

[Tgo01]

Obama promises:

Just
Ice

Martini please.

[Latrinsorm]

You have failed to make a Vanilla Ice joke for the last time, Very Petty Officer Olivier.

[Wrathbringer]

You dismiss the discrimination, but allow me to remind you (some of) what exists today: racial wage gap, racial sentencing disparity, racial gap in police response. It's not black peoples' fault that they are disproportionately targeted, it's not their responsibility to fix it, and it's probably not even within their power as a minority in a republican system. You want the change, be the change. Campaign for police reform, campaign for judicial reform, campaign for economic reform, most of all campaign for serious and robust methods of tracking these phenomena. Otherwise you're watching a man get knee capped, offering to race him on a level playing field, and shaking your head in sad disappointment that he doesn't appreciate your fair and noble gesture. You wonder why he rolls his eyes?

Until we start actually holding these people accountable, why would they change? It IS their fault that they're poor, raised to be criminals and cluster together to create giant mega slums of crime and poverty where police are targets. Stop making excuses for them. Either they're equal or they're not. Pick a side.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Until we start actually holding these people accountable, why would they change?

Hold them accountable for what? Being poor? People who violate laws, sure. What should we hold the rest accountable for? Taking advantage of subsidies the government provides? Don't be upset with them, hold the government accountable for programs that have loopholes or simply don't work. I can go on, but really my point is we should provide charity/aid to those who cannot improve their existence (in my mind, these are the truly disabled), and the rest we should provide opportunity (more on this below). The problem comes on all the varying degrees of definition and opinion of what is disabled, what is opportunity.


It IS their fault that they're poor, raised to be criminals and cluster together to create giant mega slums of crime and poverty where police are targets. Stop making excuses for them. Either they're equal or they're not. Pick a side.

Dude... I'm fairly conservative, and I think that's an ignorant statement. If you think education and environment have no impact on a person's opportunity, you are crazy. The reason people get stuck in a situation is because change is harder than status quo. They call it breaking a cycle for a reason.

This isn't an excuse for letting environment/education prevent success - we can all think of someone from a poor environment who became successful - but it certainly has an impact. A person living in poor conditions would have to put forth MORE effort that someone who is in a better situation. That sucks for the poor conditions person, but it's true. The arguement I think you are making is "well they should all put forth more effort then", too which I don't disagree. But we (society) should also be doing what we can reasonably do to make that easier for them. I'm an advocate for giving a "hand up, not a hand out" via better schools/teachers (by ensuring curriculum and content is on par with more fortunate neighborhoods), better after school opportunities (YMCA, youth activities, church, whatever the community can muster, not so much government sponsored), ensuring public transportation is available, having visible and active law enforcement. To paraphrase a little, it takes a village.

I have a lot more thoughts on the topic but I'd suggest that your assumption that poor people are poor people because they don't try hard enough to change is coming from a position where you had every opportunity to do better or maintain, while theirs was likely more limited. There will always be people who do not try and for them I have little sympathy; I would suggest they are a very small minority and that the remaining folks deserve the opportunities we (most of us in the United States) have enjoyed.

[Laviticas]

Hold them accountable for what? Being poor? People who violate laws, sure. What should we hold the rest accountable for? Taking advantage of subsidies the government provides? Don't be upset with them, hold the government accountable for programs that have loopholes or simply don't work. I can go on, but really my point is we should provide charity/aid to those who cannot improve their existence (in my mind, these are the truly disabled), and the rest we should provide opportunity (more on this below). The problem comes on all the varying degrees of definition and opinion of what is disabled, what


Dude... I'm fairly conservative, and I think that's an ignorant statement. If you think education and environment have no impact on a person's opportunity, you are crazy. The reason people get stuck in a situation is because change is harder than status quo. They call it breaking a cycle for a reason.

This isn't an excuse for letting environment/education prevent success - we can all think of someone from a poor environment who became successful - but it certainly has an impact. A person living in poor conditions would have to put forth MORE effort that someone who is in a better situation. That sucks for the poor conditions person, but it's true. The arguement I think you are making is "well they should all put forth more effort then", too which I don't disagree. But we (society) should also be doing what we can reasonably do to make that easier for them. I'm an advocate for giving a "hand up, not a hand out" via better schools/teachers (by ensuring curriculum and content is on par with more fortunate neighborhoods), better after school opportunities (YMCA, youth activities, church, whatever the community can muster, not so much government sponsored), ensuring public transportation is available, having visible and active law enforcement. To paraphrase a little, it takes a village.

I have a lot more thoughts on the topic but I'd suggest that your assumption that poor people are poor people because they don't try hard enough to change is coming from a position where you had every opportunity to do better or maintain, while theirs was likely more limited. There will always be people who do not try and for them I have little sympathy; I would suggest they are a very small minority and that the remaining folks deserve the opportunities we (most of us in the United States) have enjoyed.

I'm fairly certain being poor makes it no more difficult to push a pen along an application? I have been whiteness to many in poverty work their way out through hard work and determination. The poor have easy access to student loans, healthcare, food assistance, housing assistance, I would argue to much assistance that has lead to a dependent lower and lower middle class. I would also argue that government policy has made it more difficult for the poor to creat their own business's, entrepreneurship is probably one of the greatest paths to wealth and regulation makes this much more difficult.

[Warriorbird]

I have been whiteness to many in poverty

Thread.

[Methais]

Thread.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m32p1iVZZJ1r25b3i.gif

[Wrathbringer]

I'm fairly certain being poor makes it no more difficult to push a pen along an application? I have been whiteness to many in poverty work their way out through hard work and determination. The poor have easy access to student loans, healthcare, food assistance, housing assistance, I would argue to much assistance that has lead to a dependent lower and lower middle class. I would also argue that government policy has made it more difficult for the poor to creat their own business's, entrepreneurship is probably one of the greatest paths to wealth and regulation makes this much more difficult.

Well said. Except for the "whiteness" thing. That was extremely well said.

[Laviticas]

Well said. Except for the "whiteness" thing. That was extremely well said.

iPhone and shit