Released Illegal Immigrant From Border Crisis Arrested For Murder Kidnapping

[Methais]

http://cdn.breitbart.com/mediaserver/Breitbart/Breitbart-Texas/2014/07/15/released-alien-mugshot.jpg

LUBBOCK, Texas—An illegal immigrant who was released by U.S. authorities with a Notice to Appear has been arrested for the alleged murder of a woman and kidnapping of children on U.S. soil. The alleged crimes occurred after the man was released.
The man, Pedro Alberto Monterroso-Navas, entered the U.S. illegally with children and turned himself in to U.S. Border Patrol agents. He was processed and released, as are all illegal immigrants who come as unaccompanied minors or incomplete family units from Central America. The alien is from Honduras.

The arrest was first reported by the Associated Press (AP), but Breitbart Texas has exclusively confirmed that the man was part of the Obama Administration’s catch and release policy for family groups from Central America.

A U.S. Border Patrol source who spoke with Breitbart Texas on the condition of anonymity provided Breitbart Texas with the alien registration number for the man, and the event number for the man’s apprehension. He was processed in the McAllen station of the U.S. Border Patrol. The alien’s registration number is 202027386. The event number for his apprehension is MCS14061487. The “MCS” designates the McAllen station, the “1406” designates that the man was apprehended in June of 2014. A separate Border Patrol source confirmed that the man was apprehended on June 26, 2014 with two children he claimed were his own. He told U.S. authorities he had family in Metairie, Louisiana.

The AP identified the illegal alien as a “suburban New Orleans man” who faces a second-degree murder charge after his girlfriend was found bludgeoned to death in a bathtub in Louisiana. The man was arrested in a Katy, Texas trailer park with three children. It is unclear if they are his or if they are the same children he used to get U.S. authorities to release him with a Notice to Appear.
The AP did not inform their readers that the man was an illegal alien.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/07/16/Exclusive-Released-Alien-from-Border-Crisis-Arrested-For-Alleged-Murder-Kidnapping-in-Texas

This guy has clearly been framed by the right wing racists that don't want the rest of you to know that these are good honest hardworking people that just want a better life for their children.

[Back]

Because all immigrants are like this guy.

[Warriorbird]

So what exactly is your proposed solution? Remember your party completely punted on this issue when they had the Presidency and Congress.

[Methais]

So what exactly is your proposed solution? Remember your party completely punted on this issue when they had the Presidency and Congress.

Dig a big moat at the border and fill it with alligators.

[Warriorbird]

Dig a big moat at the border and fill it with alligators.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7TUr047h7o&

[Candor]

Dig a big moat at the border and fill it with alligators.

But why just alligators? Piranha would be a good addition (providing that they don't go after the alligators...).

[Dwaar]

We need the SKYNET drones from the last Terminator movie on the border.

Oh, and massive, indiscriminate dropping of land mines.. 2 miles wide the whole length of the border.

After a few videos of groups of people getting blown up... I bet it would stop.

[Warriorbird]

We need the SKYNET drones from the last Terminator movie on the border.

Oh, and massive, indiscriminate dropping of land mines.. 2 miles wide the whole length of the border.

After a few videos of groups of people getting blown up... I bet it would stop.

We have Skynet in LA. Latrin will be tremendously excited with your planned universal surveillance.

[Back]

Yeah, lets blow up children seeking safety from violence from their own homes.

Children seeking safety.

Children.

[Tgo01]

Yeah, lets blow up children seeking safety from violence from their own homes.

Children seeking safety.

Children.

How many have you adopted?

[Latrinsorm]

How many have you adopted?"Your options are to liquefy thousands of children with land mines or adopt them."
"...can I go for door #3?"
"NO!"

[Back]

How many have you adopted?

You are going to blame me because I don't want children killed?

[Dwaar]

Yeah, lets blow up children seeking safety from violence from their own homes.
Children seeking safety.
Children.

Back... I was joking... Relax friend... breathe..

On a serious note though... there are millions of children across the world that are in horrible situations. Should we take them all in? Because if we do, we're going to wind up just like those places... flat broke, unable to care for our own citizens, and no longer able to help anyone around the world.... Just how things work.

The US has helped more people, given more money, given more blood, given more support, and given more aid to other people and Nations, than any Nation in the history of the world. Our generosity, if abused, will mean that everything that we do for people around the world will end.... and I'm not sure you want China, Russia, Iran, or some other people filling the void.

***As a note... this is the current membership of who sits on the UN Human Rights Council... http://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/HRC/Pages/CurrentMembers.aspx ... Look at some of those countries.... and they're on the Human Rights Council??? That is a scary thought for me.... and without a strong US (yes we have done some messed up stuff in history too, but that doesn't discount the amount of good things we do),.... people that think it's okay to put Nations like this on a Human Rights Council will be telling us what to do.

[Back]

Back... I was joking... Relax friend... breathe..

On a serious note though... there are millions of children across the world that are in horrible situations. Should we take them all in? Because if we do, we're going to wind up just like those places... flat broke, unable to care for our own citizens, and no longer able to help anyone around the world.... Just how things work.

The US has helped more people, given more money, given more blood, given more support, and given more aid to other people and Nations, than any Nation in the history of the world. Our generosity, if abused, will mean that everything that we do for people around the world will end.... and I'm not sure you want China, Russia, Iran, or some other people filling the void.

Yes to the bolded part. I did not need to read past the rest of your post to answer.

[Dwaar]

Yes to the bolded part. I did not need to read past the rest of your post to answer.

Then sadly you have no idea what trouble will result. You'd do good to read past it.

[Back]

Then sadly you have no idea what trouble will result. You'd do good to read past it.

Children.

Sadly you've lost any humanity you claimed you had with your manners.

[Dwaar]

Children.

Sadly you've lost any humanity you claimed you had with your manners.

You didn't read past it... so how do you know? Don't even try to claim you know me, or my humanity... Just because you FEEL like that is what we should do. What do you do for those kids? What have you done for people around the world? What huddled masses have you helped in your life? Please... don't even think to start.

[kutter]

The world is a shitty place and bad things happen, it sad but that is reality. If you want to make a difference, you do not give a man a fish.

[Dwaar]

So your only defense for your humanity is attacking his?

No... but if he wants to compare our lifetimes and who he has helped, and who I have... he would, or someone would, say that I'm acting all high and mighty again.

If anyone thinks a poor, broken and inefficient United States is the way to help people around the world... then I'm not sure what they are thinking.

**Edit.. if he's a Peace Corps worker, Borders Without Doctors, Red Cross worker... or some such thing (for more than just a college semester)... I'll rethink my position.

[Warriorbird]

No... but if he wants to compare our lifetimes and who he has helped, and who I have... he would, or someone would, say that I'm acting all high and mighty again.

If anyone thinks a poor, broken and inefficient United States is the way to help people around the world... then I'm not sure what they are thinking.

I didn't realize you were joking at first.

With that said, I find a tremendous lack of realistic options from the STOP ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION crowd.

I much prefer those with an idea to help these people become citizens through effort and cash.

[Latrinsorm]

The world is a shitty place and bad things happen, it sad but that is reality. If you want to make a difference, you do not give a man a fish.Do you give a child an antibiotic?

[Back]

No... but if he wants to compare our lifetimes and who he has helped, and who I have... he would, or someone would, say that I'm acting all high and mighty again.

If anyone thinks a poor, broken and inefficient United States is the way to help people around the world... then I'm not sure what they are thinking.

**Edit.. if he's a Peace Corps worker, Borders Without Doctors, Red Cross worker... or some such thing (for more than just a college semester)... I'll rethink my position.

I think you and a lot of ignorant people in this country don't know how good you have been taken care of then turn around and spout truly ignorant shit.

[kutter]

Do you give a child an antibiotic?

Latrin that is a silly comparison and you know it, but by that thought process we should bankrupt the country in order to help every person on the planet that needs it?

[Dwaar]

I didn't realize you were joking at first.
With that said, I find a tremendous lack of realistic options from the STOP ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION crowd.
I much prefer those with an idea to help these people become citizens through effort and cash.

There are realistic options.. just no one likes to hear them.

I am 100% FOR LEGAL IMMIGRATION. 100%.

I hate the term "comprehensive immigration reform"... because does anyone know exactly what that means when politicians say that? It's a talking point to get people riled up... people that don't read what is in a law they are trying to put into effect.

We have immigration laws. Those laws set forth a path to citizenship. Many people are now US citizens having gone through the process. So why should we just accept ILLEGAL immigrants?

I agree that the LEGAL immigration system could use some reforms, extra staffing, and extra funding... that does not mean in the interim, that we should just let whoever wants to come here, come illegally... in violation of our current laws.

[Latrinsorm]

Latrin that is a silly comparison and you know it, but by that thought process we should bankrupt the country in order to help every person on the planet that needs it?It's not a comparison at all, we're talking about illegal immigrant children receiving medical aid. Since you ask, what we should do is provide humane treatment to anyone in our country's custody. We can very easily do that without bankrupting the country. So-called President Obama is asking for $3b, right? That's a tenth of 1% of the budget. I think we'll be okay.

[Tgo01]

"Your options are to liquefy thousands of children with land mines or adopt them."
"...can I go for door #3?"
"NO!"

'Bout time you start making sense.


You are going to blame me because I don't want children killed?

I'm going to blame you because you want to use children as an emotional tool to further your political causes.

[Warriorbird]

There are realistic options.. just no one likes to hear them.

I am 100% FOR LEGAL IMMIGRATION. 100%.

I hate the term "comprehensive immigration reform"... because does anyone know exactly what that means when politicians say that? It's a talking point to get people riled up... people that don't read what is in a law they are trying to put into effect.

We have immigration laws. Those laws set forth a path to citizenship. Many people are now US citizens having gone through the process. So why should we just accept ILLEGAL immigrants?

I agree that the LEGAL immigration system could use some reforms, extra staffing, and extra funding... that does not mean in the interim, that we should just let whoever wants to come here, come illegally... in violation of our current laws.

Mexico isn't a first world nation and is insanely corrupt. I think we need to look slightly past your harped on LEGAL solutions.

[Dwaar]

I think you and a lot of ignorant people in this country don't know how good you have been taken care of then turn around and spout truly ignorant shit.

Okay Back... all manners aside... once again... and know... I like your naïveté. But FUCK YOU. You wanted to go there... fine...

Know how good this country has treated me? LOL... I know exactly what this country does for me, and for those around the world.

I am one of those that has gone around this world helping the most poor, destitute, and abused people in this world. From giving security, educational, and medical aid to numerous people in Africa. To building schools, repairing infrastructure, giving relief aid to those in the Baltics. To assisting in relief aid in South America. To doing way to much of everything in the Middle East.

I have given to this country for almost my entire adult life... and in giving to this country, given to aid and assistance to thousands around the world. What have you done?

Instead I get to do what I do... and come back to the States and have people like you claim to know me, or have any comprehension of what it really... and I mean REALLY takes to help others.

So please STFU before you claim to know me, or claim how ignorant I am.

Now I'll go back to being respectful in future posts.

**Edit... and by the way... I have LOVED every minute that I have given of my life to help others. I could not be more happy with the decisions I've made... and the true help that I have given. I only have the upmost respect for those that have done the same. I have the upmost respect for anyone that gives back to others... whether it's their local, state, national level... or in the international level.

So thank you to everyone on here, that has ever helped those less fortunate than them in some way. Your kindness and efforts are appreciated.

[Dwaar]

Mexico isn't a first world nation and is insanely corrupt. I think we need to look slightly past your harped on LEGAL solutions.

And what does Mexico's situation have to do with OUR laws?

The Congo is corrupt.... should we start just shipping all of their children here?

[Warriorbird]

And what does Mexico's situation have to do with OUR laws?

The Congo is corrupt.... should we start just shipping all of their children here?

If we have a corrupt lawless country on our border, maybe, just maybe, we can't expect the downtrodden people to spontaneously be able to fix it themselves and are therefore being shortsighted.

How many times have you helped people in countries that couldn't help themselves but America could?

You didn't tell them "Solve it yourselves!" did you?

[kutter]

I wonder how many of you that think we need to show more compassion and that there is not really an issue, live in a border state and deal with it on a daily basis. I remember going to visit friends and family years ago and I was talking about immigration and they had no idea that so many people were entering the country illegally, and make no mistake, they are not undocumented aliens, they are illegal aliens, which is what is so incredibly ironic. Most of them want to come here because our laws provide for a mostly orderly society where people can live in relative peace, but in order to do that they have to break the very laws they claim to want to come here for.

So you want to have a discussion about immigration reform, how about this, enforce the laws on the books and stem the tide, then we can have a discussion. When we stop the waves coming across then we can talk about what to do with who is here. If a boat is sinking you do not worry about how to build the next one, you plug the damn leak.

[Warriorbird]

I wonder how many of you that think we need to show more compassion and that there is not really an issue, live in a border state and deal with it on a daily basis. I remember going to visit friends and family years ago and I was talking about immigration and they had no idea that so many people were entering the country illegally, and make no mistake, they are not undocumented aliens, they are illegal aliens, which is what is so incredibly ironic. Most of them want to come here because our laws provide for a mostly orderly society where people can live in relative peace, but in order to do that they have to break the very laws they claim to want to come here for.

So you want to have a discussion about immigration reform, how about this, enforce the laws on the books and stem the tide, then we can have a discussion. When we stop the waves coming across then we can talk about what to do with who is here. If a boat is sinking you do not worry about how to build the next one, you plug the damn leak.

They weren't even enforced under Republican administrations. Special interests corrupt your entire party over this issue. We have no adequate way to stem the tide.

[Back]

Okay Back... all manners aside... once again... and know... I like your naïveté. But FUCK YOU. You wanted to go there... fine...

Know how good this country has treated me? LOL... I know exactly what this country does for me, and for those around the world.

I am one of those that has gone around this world helping the most poor, destitute, and abused people in this world. From giving security, educational, and medical aid to numerous people in Africa. To building schools, repairing infrastructure, giving relief aid to those in the Baltics. To assisting in relief aid in South America. To doing way to much of everything in the Middle East.

I have given to this country for almost my entire adult life... and in giving to this country, given to aid and assistance to thousands around the world. What have you done?

Instead I get to do what I do... and come back to the States and have people like you claim to know me, or have any comprehension of what it really... and I mean REALLY takes to help others.

So please STFU before you claim to know me, or claim how ignorant I am.

Now I'll go back to being respectful in future posts.

**Edit... and by the way... I have LOVED every minute that I have given of my life to help others. I could not be more happy with the decisions I've made... and the true help that I have given. I only have the upmost respect for those that have done the same. I have the upmost respect for anyone that gives back to others... whether it's their local, state, national level... or in the international level.

So thank you to everyone on here, that has ever helped those less fortunate than them in some way. Your kindness and efforts are appreciated.

All I am saying is these are children seeking something better. Why not accept them as our own and raise them to be ours? Certainly, as the best most richest county in the world we can do so?

[Dwaar]

If we have a corrupt lawless country on our border, maybe, just maybe, we can't expect the downtrodden people to spontaneously be able to fix it themselves and are therefore being shortsighted.
How many times have you helped people in countries that couldn't help themselves but America could?
You didn't tell them "Solve it yourselves!" did you?

You are right in all of your comments. I fully agree with everything you said.

There is a difference between helping those countries.. and our Nation helping them... and allowing people to illegally enter our country. I understand why people do it. I sympathize with why they do it. But we can not have an open border. There is a tipping point. We have our laws, and should expect people... you, me, others... to respect them.

We provide billions of dollars to Mexico and South America. We have wonderful aid organizations staffed with thousands of wonderful people that go into those countries and help. We provide military support and training to most of the Nations down there. We do as much as we can, but we can not do it all. And we can not take every suffering soul in the world and bring them to this country. Regardless of how my emotions break for their suffering, we can not take, nor help, everyone in the world.

There is nothing wrong with having a secure border, clearly defined regulations to become a citizen, and properly enforce those. That is not inhumane. That is not being mean. That is a right every Nation has.

I hate what these children go through, and I hate seeing them suffer. But there is a tipping point. There is also a process to enter the US.

With the current situation... I believe in medical screenings, fresh clothes, a cot, and three meals a day to the children and their adult chaperones. Then putting them on a plane... and sending them back to their host Nation and releasing them to their OWN Governments administrators.

[Warriorbird]

You are right in all of your comments. I fully agree with everything you said.

There is a difference between helping those countries.. and our Nation helping them... and allowing people to illegally enter our country. I understand why people do it. I sympathize with why they do it. But we can not have an open border. There is a tipping point. We have our laws, and should expect people... you, me, others... to respect them.

We provide billions of dollars to Mexico and South America. We have wonderful aid organizations staffed with thousands of wonderful people that go into those countries and help. We provide military support and training to most of the Nations down there. We do as much as we can, but we can not do it all. And we can not take every suffering soul in the world and bring them to this country. Regardless of how my emotions break for their suffering, we can not take, nor help, everyone in the world.

There is nothing wrong with having a secure border, clearly defined regulations to become a citizen, and properly enforce those. That is not inhumane. That is not being mean. That is a right every Nation has.

I hate what these children go through, and I hate seeing them suffer. But there is a tipping point. There is also a process to enter the US.

With the current situation... I believe in medical screenings, fresh clothes, a cot, and three meals a day to the children and their adult chaperones. Then putting them on a plane... and sending them back to their host Nation and releasing them to their OWN Governments administrators.

What happens when they come back?

[Tgo01]

Certainly, as the best most richest county in the world we can do so?

"These" children? As in these particular 50 thousand whatever children? Yes.

Every child in the world with a sob story? No.

It may sound harsh but it's reality.

[Dwaar]

All I am saying is these are children seeking something better. Why not accept them as our own and raise them to be ours? Certainly, as the best most richest county in the world we can do so?

Back,
On an emotional level... I fully agree with you. I wish we could. I truly hate to see people suffer... and I am so glad people like you are out there, to care and want the best for everyone... especially children.

But there is only so much we as a Nation can do. There will always be suffering. There is suffering in our own Nation. There are US children that are hurt and seeking something better. We, as the only superpower... wealthy, generous, and most of the time kind... do as much as we can. But if we allow our Nation to go bankrupt, or the rule of law to be diminished to such a point it no longer matter... then we will not be able to help ANYONE.

I would rather help who we can, than no one at all.

[Dwaar]

What happens when they come back?

Keep the birds flowing. Get about 50 C-130s or C-17s... put about 100 or so on each. And fly them back every weekend to whatever country.

Keeps our military pilots current on flight hours and training. Transport 10k-20k people or so, every weekend back to wherever they need to go.

[Warriorbird]

Keep the birds flowing. Get about 50 C-130s or C-17s... put about 100 or so on each. And fly them back every weekend to whatever country.

Keeps our military pilots current on flight hours and training. Transport 10k-20k people or so, every weekend back to wherever they need to go.

This is merely a drop in the bucket for what cost?

[Back]

Back,
On an emotional level... I fully agree with you. I wish we could. I truly hate to see people suffer... and I am so glad people like you are out there, to care and want the best for everyone... especially children.

But there is only so much we as a Nation can do. There will always be suffering. There is suffering in our own Nation. There are US children that are hurt and seeking something better. We, as the only superpower... wealthy, generous, and most of the time kind... do as much as we can. But if we allow our Nation to go bankrupt, or the rule of law to be diminished to such a point it no longer matter... then we will not be able to help ANYONE.

I would rather help who we can, than no one at all.

Look at laws that prop up bankers.

Our nation is nowhere near going bankrupt so I have no idea why you are so scarred. We enjoy the best of things. Some people who enjoy these things are upset that others want to enjoy them too. No one is from America more than the Americans.

[Dwaar]

This is merely a drop in the bucket for what cost?

That 3.7B President Obama wants... would keep it going for quite awhile. And definitely a lot less than what it costs us as a Nation to keep people here.

Also, pilots in the military are already required to do training flights to stay current which uses fuel/time. Everyone complains about the military budget.... I'm sure a portion of the cost could come from funding already built in. 2 birds... 1 stone.

[Dwaar]

Look at laws that prop up bankers.

Our nation is nowhere near going bankrupt so I have no idea why you are so scarred. We enjoy the best of things. Some people who enjoy these things are upset that others want to enjoy them too. No one is from America more than the Americans.

I haven't looked at the numbers in awhile.. but 17 trillion in debt... people estimate what? 85 trillion in unfunded liabilities.... so where is that going to come from again?

Unless you are for the Government taking everyone's 401k and savings to pay it off? And if you say a Nation would never try that... ask Greece.

And as a note... Mexico... South American countries... and the US... are all sovereign Nations... we are not one big America. And again... I have no problem with people coming here LEGALLY. Have you ever looked at what Mexico makes a person do to become a citizen? Try moving there and doing that, or hell, just try going to any other country illegally and see how you're treated.... compared to how we treat people.

[Back]

I haven't looked at the numbers in awhile.. but 17 trillion in debt.

And who is at fault?

Let me guess your answer. Not the banks.

[Methais]

Because all immigrants are like this guy.

Remember when your motto for more gun control was, "If it even saves just one life it's worth it!"?


Yes to the bolded part. I did not need to read past the rest of your post to answer.

Does this mean we can kick them back out once they become adults?

[Methais]

If we have a corrupt lawless country on our border, maybe, just maybe, we can't expect the downtrodden people to spontaneously be able to fix it themselves and are therefore being shortsighted.

I agree, we should invade Mexico and turn them into Spanish 'Murica.


What happens when they come back?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf5BEQBBiRU

[Warriorbird]

I agree, we should invade Mexico and turn them into Spanish 'Murica.

Clinton was dumb to turn down buying Mexico for the oil alone.

[Latrinsorm]

Clinton was dumb to turn down buying Mexico for the oil alone.No dollars for oil!

...wait...

[Jarvan]

Children.

Sadly you've lost any humanity you claimed you had with your manners.

Back. Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

We can not take in 1 BILLION Children just because you think it is the right thing, or because they are children.

I mean, seriously. Keep repeating -Children- Like it makes you feel any better at all about the fact that you have likely done ZERO for these children.

Zero.. as in nothing. Do you donate to feed the children worldwide? have you ever done the "adopt a child" program you see on TV? Paid for their meals?

Nope.. you do nothing. Then when waves and waves of "children" come to America not to flee their country.. because face it, their countries have ALWAYS been like this.. but because they are coming KNOWING that Obama won't do dick about it, THEN, and ONLY THEN, are you all about ... the Children.

Here is a solution for you Back since I know you LONG for a one world Government.

We should invade, take over, and Americanize EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY. If they are ALL Americans, then this is a none issue, right? I am SURE you could go for that one.

Until then, donate all your time, money, and clothes to "children" around the world that you are SOOOOOO dead set on helping...

yeah.. didn't think so.

[Jarvan]

All I am saying is these are children seeking something better. Why not accept them as our own and raise them to be ours? Certainly, as the best most richest county in the world we can do so?

How many have you adopted?

And why haven't you adopted any?

Seriously.. you want them here, you want to raise them "as our own", why won't you adopt any?

Are you that much of a cruel heartless person that you won't let a defenses child into your life Back?

What kind of Monster are you?

[Taernath]

How many have you adopted?


How many have you dropped off south of the border?

[Tgo01]

How many have you dropped off south of the border?

Four just yesterday.

[Taernath]

Four just yesterday.

You have the right to comment on the thread, then.

[Methais]

Zero.. as in nothing. Do you donate to feed the children worldwide? have you ever done the "adopt a child" program you see on TV? Paid for their meals?

I heard he gave a kid free water once at his restaurant.

[Jarvan]

How many have you dropped off south of the border?

Mexico won't let me in sadly. Apparently I am not stupid enough to vacation there.

[Jarvan]

I heard he gave a kid free water once at his restaurant.

You mean at the restaurant he leases, right?

[Candor]

Reality check: The United States cannot save the entire world.

[caelric]

Yeah, lets blow up children seeking safety from violence from their own homes.

Children seeking safety.

Children.

'Do it for the children'

Because that always turns out well.

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, lets blow up children seeking safety from violence from their own homes.

Children seeking safety.

Children.


You are going to blame me because I don't want children killed?


Children.

Sadly you've lost any humanity you claimed you had with your manners.


All I am saying is these are children seeking something better.

Sad part is: You don't even realize how you are being played.

Sucker.

[Parkbandit]

All I am saying is these are children seeking something better. Why not accept them as our own and raise them to be ours? Certainly, as the best most richest county in the world we can do so?

It is a good question Pack... how many have you personally adopted? You believe this strongly that we should just accept all children and raise them to be ours... but you are too good to actually do it?

[caelric]

It is a good question Pack... how many have you personally adopted? You believe this strongly that we should just accept all children and raise them to be ours... but you are too good to actually do it?

Pretty similiar to the one congressman who recently was quoted as saying we shoudl not send illegal alines back, but then was found to have bargained with DHS to not bring them to his state.

[Parkbandit]

Pretty similiar to the one congressman who recently was quoted as saying we shoudl not send illegal alines back, but then was found to have bargained with DHS to not bring them to his state.

I was going to say similar to Pack's gun control views after Sandy Hook, while owning an assault weapon himself.

[caelric]

I was going to say similar to Pack's gun control views after Sandy Hook, while owning an assault weapon himself.

It's pretty well established that many of the most vehement gun control advocates also own guns or have large security entourages that carry guns (Rosie O'Donnell, anyone?). So at this point, it's somewhat expected and not really notable that many that espouses gun control owns guns.

[Methais]

This is the part of the thread where Backlash does this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UUBBVvfBUcM/T1t8Zi673mI/AAAAAAAAA0c/uEdZ-PA4IpI/s1600/homer-simpson-bush-gif.gif

[Parkbandit]

This is the part of the thread where Backlash does this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UUBBVvfBUcM/T1t8Zi673mI/AAAAAAAAA0c/uEdZ-PA4IpI/s1600/homer-simpson-bush-gif.gif

I doubt it. That would require an understanding of the problem and realizing how naive his stance is. No, he will just respond with more "We need to save the children.. and by 'we' I don't mean me, I mean you guys do it"

[Kembal]

Pretty similiar to the one congressman who recently was quoted as saying we shoudl not send illegal alines back, but then was found to have bargained with DHS to not bring them to his state.

Gov. of Maryland, actually.

As to the original article, what was the government supposed to do? Federal law currently prohibits rapid deportation in that scenario. And that law was signed by Bush, so can't exactly blame Obama for that.

[Jarvan]

Gov. of Maryland, actually.

As to the original article, what was the government supposed to do? Federal law currently prohibits rapid deportation in that scenario. And that law was signed by Bush, so can't exactly blame Obama for that.

Well... Obama has a Pen and a Phone you know, he can do anything he wants.

[Kembal]

Well... Obama has a Pen and a Phone you know, he can do anything he wants.

While he has wide latitude in many cases in how he chooses to enforce various laws (good or bad), I'm fairly certain one of the things he doesn't have is the power to deport someone rapidly when federal law prohibits it.

That news article fails its readers by not providing that context.

[Jarvan]

While he has wide latitude in many cases in how he chooses to enforce various laws (good or bad), I'm fairly certain one of the things he doesn't have is the power to deport someone rapidly when federal law prohibits it.

That news article fails its readers by not providing that context.

Well, the constitution requires all Americans due rights under the law, and he felt he could disregard that.

So yes, I do think that Obama feels that if what he does is "good for the country" he would justify doing anything he wants with the stroke of a Pen. Frankly, I think the only reason he hasn't done more is just because he thinks in the long run, not doing it will help his party more as he can point to Republicans and say they kept stopping him.

[Parkbandit]

While he has wide latitude in many cases in how he chooses to enforce various laws (good or bad), I'm fairly certain one of the things he doesn't have is the power to deport someone rapidly when federal law prohibits it.

That news article fails its readers by not providing that context.

You believe that is what he wants to do? Why create the crisis in the first place?

And yes, he created this "crisis".

[Methais]

VIDEO: Obama Gives EBT Cards to Busloads of Illegals to Shop at Walmart

http://www.tpnn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Busload-of-illegals.jpg

On Sunday afternoon, a North Carolina woman was on her lunch break when she stumbled upon a disturbing scene. It was approximately 1:30 pm when Sylvia Locklear witnessed a strange sight in a Walmart parking lot in Concord, North Carolina. A school bus filled with adult illegal aliens was parked in the lot dropping the illegals off to shop at Walmart with EBT cards.

That’s right, taxpaying Americans around the country are struggling to make ends meet, but they are unknowingly having their pocketbooks raided by the government in the name of illegal aliens. Those who are participating in the illegal invasion of America are being rewarded with shopping sprees paid for by the American taxpayer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaJH5Me8TUc

http://www.tpnn.com/2014/07/16/video-obama-gives-ebt-cards-to-busloads-of-illegals-to-shop-at-walmart/

GO GO MEXICOBAMA!!!!1

[Back]

I doubt it. That would require an understanding of the problem and realizing how naive his stance is. No, he will just respond with more "We need to save the children.. and by 'we' I don't mean me, I mean you guys do it"

You guys make a good point about talking the talk and walking the walk so I made a donation to a group in AZ working to help this specific situation.

[Latrinsorm]

Obviously false. Everyone knows welfare abusers all have tricked out rims on their vehicles.

[Methais]

You guys make a good point about talking the talk and walking the walk so I made a donation to a group in AZ working to help this specific situation.

How much did you donate?

AND WHY DIDN'T YOU ADOPT ANYONE?!?

[Tgo01]

Obviously false. Everyone knows welfare abusers all have tricked out rims on their vehicles.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/86/86e8808a6d645297ca3fc43fa0928d5230ec78cc4916bc6ee4 b4ede5310b9ed0.jpg

[Back]

How much did you donate?

AND WHY DIDN'T YOU ADOPT ANYONE?!?

Not going into anymore detail except to say you guys were right that action is needed more than words.

And I'm not exactly the best role model for a kid.

[Methais]

And I'm not exactly the best role model for a kid.

But...children! If you would just think of the children you could become a great role model without having to send them $10!!!

EDIT: Speaking of action...

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4189960/bus-driver-uppercut-o.gif

[Jarvan]

You guys make a good point about talking the talk and walking the walk so I made a donation to a group in AZ working to help this specific situation.

In other words, YOU don't want to take care of these kids, you want other people to do it instead. You are such a great person.

[Warriorbird]

VIDEO: Obama Gives EBT Cards to Busloads of Illegals to Shop at Walmart

http://www.tpnn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Busload-of-illegals.jpg

On Sunday afternoon, a North Carolina woman was on her lunch break when she stumbled upon a disturbing scene. It was approximately 1:30 pm when Sylvia Locklear witnessed a strange sight in a Walmart parking lot in Concord, North Carolina. A school bus filled with adult illegal aliens was parked in the lot dropping the illegals off to shop at Walmart with EBT cards.

That’s right, taxpaying Americans around the country are struggling to make ends meet, but they are unknowingly having their pocketbooks raided by the government in the name of illegal aliens. Those who are participating in the illegal invasion of America are being rewarded with shopping sprees paid for by the American taxpayer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaJH5Me8TUc

http://www.tpnn.com/2014/07/16/video-obama-gives-ebt-cards-to-busloads-of-illegals-to-shop-at-walmart/

GO GO MEXICOBAMA!!!!1

This is like the most credible and trustworthy link ever. Thanks Obama!

[Wrathbringer]

In other words, YOU don't want to take care of these kids, you want other people to do it instead. You are such a great person.

He's a liberal. It's what they do.

[Methais]

This is like the most credible and trustworthy link ever. Thanks Obama!

I have no doubt that that school bus full of Mexicans that don't speak English is filled with hard working, non-food stamp using legal residents that are going grocery shopping with their paychecks that they've paid their fair share of taxes on.

[Warriorbird]

I have no doubt that that school bus full of Mexicans that don't speak English is filled with hard working, non-food stamp using legal residents that are going grocery shopping with their paychecks that they've paid their fair share of taxes on.

Obama totally gave them EBT cards to go to Walmart!

[Methais]

Obama totally gave them EBT cards to go to Walmart!

NO HE DIDN'T THAT'S TOTALLY UNHEARD OF AND COULD NEVER HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

[Vorpos]

Obama totally gave them EBT cards to go to Walmart!

That's the only reason they're still here. Do you really think they would still be here If they were starving? We don't need to spend money on a fence or all kinds of legal fees trying to deport them. I know this is probably a hard concept for a critical thinker to understand, but if you stop feeding them they will get the hint.

[Warriorbird]

That's the only reason they're still here. Do you really think they would still be here If they were starving? We don't need to spend money on a fence or all kinds of legal fees trying to deport them. I know this is probably a hard concept for a critical thinker to understand, but if you stop feeding them they will get the hint.

I love "critical thinking" as an insult. Walmart, ADM, and the construction industry donate to what party primarily? If you're worried about "stopping feeding them" that is. You could also take a look at drug laws which empower cartels who then do coyote work.

[Methais]

love "critical thinking" as an insult.

Just wait until Savants come out.

[Warriorbird]

Just wait until Savants come out.

Then it can be a weapon!

[Parkbandit]

You guys make a good point about talking the talk and walking the walk so I made a donation to a group in AZ working to help this specific situation.

That $2 will go a long way in helping feed 50,000 kids.

I think I can speak for the entire Americas when I say "Thank you, Pack".

[Warriorbird]

That $2 will go a long way in helping feed 50,000 kids.

I think I can speak for the entire Americas when I say "Thank you, Pack".

Better some people help than nobody helps. Even minimal amounts can matter. Heck, look at the last Presidential election.

[Jarvan]

Better some people help than nobody helps. Even minimal amounts can matter. Heck, look at the last Presidential election.

Meh.. I will believe that he got most of his money from small donations from unique people when he releases a list of his donations. Considering he takes CC donations over the internet, it's easy as pie for rich people around the world to flood him with "small" donations and exceed the cap.

On another note. I did the whole "dollar a day" pledge thing for a few years. That is until I found out that the one I gave to, only about 20 cents on the dollar made it to the kids.

[Back]

NO HE DIDN'T THAT'S TOTALLY UNHEARD OF AND COULD NEVER HAPPEN!!!!!!!!!!!!111111

Isn't Walmart the big winner here gobbling up all those tax dollar funded EBT cards? Thanks Obama!

[Warriorbird]

Meh.. I will believe that he got most of his money from small donations from unique people when he releases a list of his donations. Considering he takes CC donations over the internet, it's easy as pie for rich people around the world to flood him with "small" donations and exceed the cap.

On another note. I did the whole "dollar a day" pledge thing for a few years. That is until I found out that the one I gave to, only about 20 cents on the dollar made it to the kids.

It'll happen just as soon as the Super PACs list their donors.

Everybody should check what they donate to. That's just due diligence. Places exist that donate far more of that dollar.

[Dwaar]

Not going into anymore detail except to say you guys were right that action is needed more than words.

And I'm not exactly the best role model for a kid.

Very kind thing to do Back. Hopefully more across the US follow your example. I know many religious and civil organizations are doing all they can to assist the kids. I'm sure they're thankful for whatever support you could provide. Respect.

[Dwaar]

Isn't Walmart the big winner here gobbling up all those tax dollar funded EBT cards? Thanks Obama!

Hey! With all the EBT card action... WalMart can finally raise it's wages so they aren't treating their employees like slaves!

Win Win!

[Jarvan]

It'll happen just as soon as the Super PACs list their donors.

Everybody should check what they donate to. That's just due diligence. Places exist that donate far more of that dollar.

Yeah, I know there are ones that donate a larger portion. Hard to find honest ones tho. They are few and far between. "Administrative fees" always seem to take a huge chunk. Then you read about the President of the foundation getting paid millions a year to run it... and your like.. WTF?!?!?!?

It would never happen WB. 1) because anything under a certain amount doesn't need to be reported, so they use it as a way to bypass campaign laws. (and almost no politician wants to fix campaign finance laws) and 2) Super PAC's and direct presidential donations are two utterly different things. (Super PAC's don't have an upper limit for example)

[Kembal]

You believe that is what he wants to do? Why create the crisis in the first place?

And yes, he created this "crisis".

You know very well that I'll call him out for managerial incompetence if I see it, but in this case, the requested size of the supplemental (approx. $4 billion), and the fact that he's requested a change in law to allow for rapid deportation (which Congress appears ready to give him) makes me believe that in this case, he is actually hamstrung by current law.

Considering this crisis has torpedoed comprehensive immigration reform happening anytime before the 2014 election, I really doubt he wanted it. I know you'll come back and say "Dems don't want immigration solved so they can drive up Latino turnout against Republicans", but the data is starting to come back that the longer this doesn't get solved, the more disenfranchised Latino citizens feel, thus depressing their voter turnout. And that's very bad for Dems, in both the short term and long term.

[Jarvan]

Very kind thing to do Back. Hopefully more across the US follow your example. I know many religious and civil organizations are doing all they can to assist the kids. I'm sure they're thankful for whatever support you could provide. Respect.

I still say the best thing we can do for these kids is invade their country and slaughter all the evil people driving them out. Then send them back.

[Dwaar]

I still say the best thing we can do for these kids is invade their country and slaughter all the evil people driving them out. Then send them back.

I'm all with you on that. That would unfortunately require more military funding.... and putting guys on the ground (can't drone strike everyone). And most of the US wouldn't like that. But a good 6 month, full on military operation in some of these countries would make a world of difference.

Of course... the Rules of Engagement (ROE) would need to be weapons free for these cartels to understand we aren't joking around. Straight up raids and killing the cartel members. No due process or anything. And the US populous would never allow that.

Edit: But thinking about it... the cartels are so vicious... that would likely spark even more reprisals in the US to occur. So someone smarter than me might need to examine the situation in a more logical sense.

[Warriorbird]

I still say the best thing we can do for these kids is invade their country and slaughter all the evil people driving them out. Then send them back.

I don't get why both parties aren't suggesting "Hey guys. Mexico is resoundingly fucked up." Because it is.

[Dwaar]

I don't get why both parties aren't suggesting "Hey guys. Mexico is resoundingly fucked up." Because it is.

I think, just my opinion... it's because we are a compassionate Nation. We want the best for people. They're abusing the Political Correctness currently in our Nation, and the generosity of our caring citizens. And if both our major political parties said something like that, there would be a backlash from the more liberal leaning citizens... which in turn would cause the politicians to lose votes.

Sort of messed up, but what I think it is sadly.

[Kembal]

Edit: But thinking about it... the cartels are so vicious... that would likely spark even more reprisals in the US to occur. So someone smarter than me might need to examine the situation in a more logical sense.

This. Expecting US military power to solve all problems is a great way to create more problems.

[Dwaar]

This. Expecting US military power to solve all problems is a great way to create more problems.

Understand. Why I put that in there. I am for just killing them though. No pass go, no collect $200.

But we do need to find a balance that is more forceful somehow. Right now they know they can kill 10 people, get arrested, then just have a vacation in prison. That doesn't scare them to much.

[Wrathbringer]

This. Expecting US military power to solve all problems is a great way to create more problems.

He's a republican. It's what they do.

[Warriorbird]

But a good 6 month, full on military operation in some of these countries would make a world of difference.

Edit: But thinking about it... the cartels are so vicious... that would likely spark even more reprisals in the US to occur. So someone smarter than me might need to examine the situation in a more logical sense.

The problem is after that 6 months. We're less good at that bit. At least it isn't dominated by Islam or right near Communist countries though. We have a much better record at that.

[Latrinsorm]

The problem is after that 6 months. We're less good at that bit. At least it isn't dominated by Islam or right near Communist countries though. We have a much better record at that.Not so fast... has Enrique Nieto ever released his long form birth certificate?

[Warriorbird]

Not so fast... has Enrique Nieto ever released his long form birth certificate?

Ha ha ha. It's an interesting thought. I'm far more curious whether he'll ever admit to killing his wife. I tend to doubt it though.

[Parkbandit]

Better some people help than nobody helps. Even minimal amounts can matter. Heck, look at the last Presidential election.

I just laugh at people who continue to espouse the "FOR TEH CHILDREN!!" mantra and their answer is to go to a website and a couple of mouse clicks later, they are absolved of the self guilt they are feeling.

[Warriorbird]

I just laugh at people who continue to espouse the "FOR TEH CHILDREN!!" mantra and their answer is to go to a website and a couple of mouse clicks later, they are absolved of the self guilt they are feeling.

Those people certainly tend towards the ridiculous. Without them we'd have much less available charity. Paradox, that.

[Parkbandit]

I don't get why both parties aren't suggesting "Hey guys. Mexico is resoundingly fucked up." Because it is.

This "crisis" isn't because of what Mexico did, it's because of what we are doing and not doing. There is a reason why 50,000+ kids and mothers are coming across this year at record numbers... and I'll give you a hint: It's not because of how bad Mexico has suddenly become.. because Mexico has been bad for decades.

[Dwaar]

This "crisis" isn't because of what Mexico did, it's because of what we are doing and not doing. There is a reason why 50,000+ kids and mothers are coming across this year at record numbers... and I'll give you a hint: It's not because of how bad Mexico has suddenly become.. because Mexico has been bad for decades.

You know what I don't get... is how come Mexico has allowed itself to become what it is. It is so rich in natural resources, family, and faith.... yet they have allowed a cancer to spread throughout it at all levels.

It could be such a wonderful place, sad they are not able to pull it all together.

[Parkbandit]

Those people certainly tend towards the ridiculous. Without them we'd have much less available charity. Paradox, that.

No way. Those types tend to give very little.. just enough to say to themselves "Well, I did my part!" The real charitable contributions come from evil companies trying to get good publicity.

[Wrathbringer]

This "crisis" isn't because of what Mexico did, it's because of what we are doing and not doing. There is a reason why 50,000+ kids and mothers are coming across this year at record numbers... and I'll give you a hint: It's not because of how bad Mexico has suddenly become.. because Mexico has been bad for decades.

Democrats have to up registration somehow. You can't reasonably expect intelligent folks to buy that crap. Gotta import people who don't know the language then give them some cheese to get the numbers they need.

[Latrinsorm]

This "crisis" isn't because of what Mexico did, it's because of what we are doing and not doing. There is a reason why 50,000+ kids and mothers are coming across this year at record numbers... and I'll give you a hint: It's not because of how bad Mexico has suddenly become.. because Mexico has been bad for decades.The point of the "crisis" is that these children are from non-Mexico countries, and we have different laws governing their treatment. Have those countries suddenly become worse? Well, the murder rate in Honduras has doubled since 2006. That sounds worse to me.

[Warriorbird]

Democrats have to up registration somehow. You can't reasonably expect intelligent folks to buy that crap. Gotta import people who don't know the language then give them some cheese to get the numbers they need.

These children are totally being imported so that Democrats can get votes.

Illegal immigrants only come here for government benefits.

By George, I think he's got it!

[Parkbandit]

By George, I think he's got it!

I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO BLAME BUSH EVENTUALLY!

[Vorpos]

Better some people help than nobody helps. Even minimal amounts can matter. Heck, look at the last Presidential election.

I am sure plenty of people on here would be glad to help. We should take up a collection on here so we can send a bus load to your house.

[waywardgs]

No way. Those types tend to give very little.. just enough to say to themselves "Well, I did my part!" The real charitable contributions come from evil companies trying to get good publicity.

Wrong.

Americans gave $335.17 billion in 2013. This reflects a 4.4% increase from 2011.2

Corporate giving held steady in 2013 at $16.76 billion.2

Foundation giving increased in 2013 to $50.28 billion--a 5.7% increase from 2011.4

In 2013, the largest source of charitable giving came from individuals at $241.32 billion, or 72% of total giving; followed by foundations ($50.28 billion/15%), bequests ($26.81 billion/8%), and corporations ($16.76 billion/5%).2

http://www.nptrust.org/philanthropic-resources/charitable-giving-statistics/

[Warriorbird]

I am sure plenty of people on here would be glad to help. We should take up a collection on here so we can send a bus load to your house.

Here's the problem with Republicans. They just love the idea of deporting but just not paying for it. Obama's actually asking for help to deport people but I'm sure he'll draw serious Republican whining.

I'm sure if you shipped illegal immigrants to my place they'd find gainful employment in the local fruit picking industry (Apart from our vineyard because we sucker college students into doing most of ours for free. Far far cheaper than even illegal labor).


I KNEW YOU WERE GOING TO BLAME BUSH EVENTUALLY!

LOL. Bush is on my side on this one.

[ClydeR]

What does the word "exclusive" mean in this news article? Other media outlets reported the crime and the perpetrator's immigration status several days prior to the Breitbart article, like this (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2690881/Illegal-immigrant-run-three-children-police-say-murdered-25-year-old-girlfriend-left-body-bathtub.html) one from England. Is it "exclusive" because Breitbart reported his alien registration number?

[ClydeR]

The point of the "crisis" is that these children are from non-Mexico countries, and we have different laws governing their treatment. Have those countries suddenly become worse? Well, the murder rate in Honduras has doubled since 2006. That sounds worse to me.

Yes, more than half (http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2014/06/26/despite-white-house-claims-up-to-80-migrant-children-can-stay-as-refugees-or/?intcmp=related) of the children are from Honduras.

But it's a travesty that Mexico doesn't protect its southern border. That's why it's Mexico's fault.

[Methais]

You know what I don't get... is how come Mexico has allowed itself to become what it is. It is so rich in natural resources, family, and faith.... yet they have allowed a cancer to spread throughout it at all levels.

It could be such a wonderful place, sad they are not able to pull it all together.

Don't worry, the same will happen to us soon enough too, probably no later than when all these Mexicans have kids born here and they all start running for office and getting elected by other Mexicans.

Where do the rest of us illegally immigrate to then? Canada?

[Warriorbird]

You know what I don't get... is how come Mexico has allowed itself to become what it is. It is so rich in natural resources, family, and faith.... yet they have allowed a cancer to spread throughout it at all levels.

It could be such a wonderful place, sad they are not able to pull it all together.

Corrupted one party rule with cartels building power and building power and our drug laws.

[zzentar]

This has been proven false, these workers were legal temporary workers from a local farm.

I am just curious why we are giving food assistance to legal migrant workers. No politics involved here at all. serious question. Here is the link:

http://savingtherepublic.com/blog/2014/07/busload-illegals-nc-go-shopping-ebt-cards-walmart-debunked/#

~Zz

[Wrathbringer]

This has been proven false, these workers were legal temporary workers from a local farm.

I am just curious why we are giving food assistance to legal migrant workers. No politics involved here at all. serious question. Here is the link:

http://savingtherepublic.com/blog/2014/07/busload-illegals-nc-go-shopping-ebt-cards-walmart-debunked/#

~Zz

Hey, when you're printing all the money you need, why not, right?

[Jarvan]

This has been proven false, these workers were legal temporary workers from a local farm.

I am just curious why we are giving food assistance to legal migrant workers. No politics involved here at all. serious question. Here is the link:

http://savingtherepublic.com/blog/2014/07/busload-illegals-nc-go-shopping-ebt-cards-walmart-debunked/#

~Zz

Democrats have never met a person they didn't want to give money to.

Well.. other then the Koch brothers.

[Dwaar]

Don't worry, the same will happen to us soon enough too, probably no later than when all these Mexicans have kids born here and they all start running for office and getting elected by other Mexicans.

Where do the rest of us illegally immigrate to then? Canada?

I know we could never do it... but I always thought... with everyone coming to America (not everyone, but you know)... We tell Mexico... Okay... You can have all of the United States. You all like the U.S. so much... you can just have it all. Move every single person up here. Everything in America is yours.

Then we move every single American to Mexico. Would we then have to worry about our Northern border? And would people from other parts of the world still want to move to the United States?

[Parkbandit]

This has been proven false, these workers were legal temporary workers from a local farm.

I am just curious why we are giving food assistance to legal migrant workers. No politics involved here at all. serious question. Here is the link:

http://savingtherepublic.com/blog/2014/07/busload-illegals-nc-go-shopping-ebt-cards-walmart-debunked/#

~Zz

Call me skeptical.. but this single bus doesn't mean 50K mothers and children didn't enter the country illegally and are instead from a farm. Granted, even if this was true, it wouldn't be reported by most media because that would destroy the crafted "crisis" this Administration has created to push their idea of immigration reform.

[Methais]

Democrats have never met a person they didn't want to give someone else's money to.

Well.. other then the Koch brothers.

Fixed.

[Ashliana]

The arrest was first reported by the Associated Press (AP), but Breitbart Texas has exclusively confirmed that the man was part of the Obama Administration’s catch and release policy for family groups from Central America.

This guy has clearly been framed by the right wing racists that don't want the rest of you to know that these are good honest hardworking people that just want a better life for their children.

That's what you get for getting your information from Breitbart.

"The Obama Administration's catch and release policy"? Remind me again--who signed the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 into law, the source of this so-called "Obama administration policy"?

Could it have been everyone's favorite conservative, the one you guys like to pretend didn't hold office for eight disastrous years? Why, yes, it could have been! But no, clearly, it's that filthy brown person president and his personal policy to open the floodgates to the teeming, unwashed hispanic masses.

[Latrinsorm]

Hey! Obama's way more a dirty dark tan than a dirty brown. Much higher level of green.

[Dwaar]

Hey! Obama's way more a dirty dark tan than a dirty brown. Much higher level of green.

You left off that half of him is white.

Oh god.. this is so wrong... but what if Obama had Vitiligo, and after his first election it really kicked in.... effectively turning his outward appearance white.

I wonder what the % of African-Americans voting for him would have been in the second election. That would have been an interesting social experiment to see.

[Kembal]

This has been proven false, these workers were legal temporary workers from a local farm.

I am just curious why we are giving food assistance to legal migrant workers. No politics involved here at all. serious question. Here is the link:

http://savingtherepublic.com/blog/2014/07/busload-illegals-nc-go-shopping-ebt-cards-walmart-debunked/#

~Zz

http://www.independenttribune.com/news/farmer-migrant-workers-in-viral-video-are-legal/article_3e139d8e-0d2b-11e4-b6f8-001a4bcf6878.html

They didn't have government EBT cards. Probably have prepaid debit cards provided by their employer.

I like how this entire story was completely nothing, and a number of people blamed Obama without having enough facts.

[Jarvan]

That's what you get for getting your information from Breitbart.

"The Obama Administration's catch and release policy"? Remind me again--who signed the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act of 2008 into law, the source of this so-called "Obama administration policy"?

Could it have been everyone's favorite conservative, the one you guys like to pretend didn't hold office for eight disastrous years? Why, yes, it could have been! But no, clearly, it's that filthy brown person president and his personal policy to open the floodgates to the teeming, unwashed hispanic masses.

Fucking Racist.

[Jarvan]

Well.. it is not impacting my town.

http://m.wfmz.com/kidspeace-housing-children-who-illegally-crossed-into-us/27031974

Apparently they plan to ship some kids to my Area. I am a few thousand miles away from the Boarder. This really is the stupidest thing anyone could have thought of. Even back. I am SURE this will reduce the number of illegals... right?

[Back]

Where the responsibility seems to be held is in the arms of the people who have agitated the Central and Southern American countries.

[Jarvan]

Where the responsibility seems to be held is in the arms of the people who have agitated the Central and Southern American countries.

This is another one of the "Its' our Fault" things, isn't it Back?

I don't know.. but no one said those countries needed to have drug cartels, or criminal empires. Nor corrupt governments. Those things are not our fault. Our people may buy the drugs... but that does not mean that those countries need to supply them. If they didn't supply them in fact, our people wouldn't buy the drugs from them, maybe there would be less drug use?


BUT no.. I am SURE this is somehow going to be "America's Fault".

[Methais]

Where the responsibility seems to be held is in the arms of the people who have agitated the Central and Southern American countries.

You mean it has nothing to so with the fact that we leave our border open and give them handouts at the expense of our own taxpayers?

Golly.

[waywardgs]

This is another one of the "Its' our Fault" things, isn't it Back?

I don't know.. but no one said those countries needed to have drug cartels, or criminal empires. Nor corrupt governments. Those things are not our fault. Our people may buy the drugs... but that does not mean that those countries need to supply them. If they didn't supply them in fact, our people wouldn't buy the drugs from them, maybe there would be less drug use?


BUT no.. I am SURE this is somehow going to be "America's Fault".

Economics. You're a buddy of capitalism, right? If there's a demand, there's a supply. Supply won't ever stop simply because it's somehow immoral or destructive, no matter how much you wish it to during church service.

[Jarvan]

Economics. You're a buddy of capitalism, right? If there's a demand, there's a supply. Supply won't ever stop simply because it's somehow immoral or destructive, no matter how much you wish it to during church service.

But you are a Progressive Liberal that thinks the world should be different, are you not? Why do you have so much doubt in your fellow man?

[waywardgs]

But you are a Progressive Liberal that thinks the world should be different, are you not?

Wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up faster.


Why do you have so much doubt in your fellow man?

I don't have doubt in my fellow man. I know exactly what they'll do, because they do it over and over again. Some people will always want drugs, so there will always be a supply. Likewise, people will always want to look for a better life if one is available, traveling thousands of miles to find it. The question is only what to do about it.

[Latrinsorm]

I don't know.. but no one said those countries needed to have drug cartels, or criminal empires. Nor corrupt governments. Those things are not our fault.Not our fault, no.

Reagan's.
They didn't have government EBT cards. Probably have prepaid debit cards provided by their employer.

I like how this entire story was completely nothing, and a number of people blamed Obama without having enough facts.People should have just listened to me from the start. (What else is new?)

[Back]

This is another one of the "Its' our Fault" things, isn't it Back?

I don't know.. but no one said those countries needed to have drug cartels, or criminal empires. Nor corrupt governments. Those things are not our fault. Our people may buy the drugs... but that does not mean that those countries need to supply them. If they didn't supply them in fact, our people wouldn't buy the drugs from them, maybe there would be less drug use?


BUT no.. I am SURE this is somehow going to be "America's Fault".

You are a smart guy so I am sure you are aware of all the shenannigans the US has pulled with Central and South American governments for the sake of capitalism over the past 100 or more years. Not saying we own all of it but certainly are partially responsible for the face of it today.

[Warriorbird]

You are a smart guy so I am sure you are aware of all the shenannigans the US has pulled with Central and South American governments for the sake of capitalism over the past 100 or more years. Not saying we own all of it but certainly are partially responsible for the face of it today.

9 years away from 200 years.

[Jarvan]

Couple of things that seem like they should be here really...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/25/world/americas/administration-weighs-plan-to-move-processing-of-youths-seeking-entry-to-honduras-.html?_r=2

Obama plans to call "youths" in some Central American countries "refugees" so he can then directly fly them to the US and give them money. They don't fit the definition of Refugee, but that's ok, he will just change the Legal definition. He can do that you know. (Here is a Hint.. he can't)


http://time.com/3028637/obama-eyes-major-immigration-move/

Obama plans to just ignore the law, constitution, and congress by just swiping his mighty pen and giving most of the 12 million illegal aliens "work status". Basically giving them documents and de facto amnesty. I think Obama belongs to the Back theology of Immigration, the one where he thinks there are NO Borders,and everyone everywhere is really an American citizen, and we should just let them in.

I do love how these "Honest" and "unbiased" agencies report the news.

One calls them Migrants.. the other Undocumented workers.

Either way... if Obama does either thing, it really is a major expansion of his powers, and likely illegal.

Makes ya wonder.. maybe Obama did way to much Cocaine.. it rotted his brain.

[Tgo01]

http://time.com/3028637/obama-eyes-major-immigration-move/

They mentioned our "broken" system twice and how Obama wanted to "fix" our system three times yet not once did I see how they felt the system was broke. Exactly how is our immigration system broken?

I also loved the part claiming that enforcing our current immigration policy has "hobbled the economy."

[Jarvan]

They mentioned our "broken" system twice and how Obama wanted to "fix" our system three times yet not once did I see how they felt the system was broke. Exactly how is our immigration system broken?

I also loved the part claiming that enforcing our current immigration policy has "hobbled the economy."

It's broken because we are not letting every single person that wants in, in for free.

[Thondalar]

They mentioned our "broken" system twice and how Obama wanted to "fix" our system three times yet not once did I see how they felt the system was broke. Exactly how is our immigration system broken.

I've said this for the longest time. Everyone whines about having a "path to citizenship"...we already do. I've also brought up the fact that we have the highest legal immigrant population in the world. The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is the same as the difference between a successful business owner and a drug dealer that both grew up in the 'hood. One wants to work a little harder and follow the rules, and the other doesn't.

[Back]

I've said this for the longest time. Everyone whines about having a "path to citizenship"...we already do. I've also brought up the fact that we have the highest legal immigrant population in the world. The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is the same as the difference between a successful business owner and a drug dealer that both grew up in the 'hood. One wants to work a little harder and follow the rules, and the other doesn't.

Successful drug dealing is as much work as anything else. Lets not be snobby about it!

[Tgo01]

Successful drug dealing is as much work as anything else. Lets not be snobby about it!

It's hard to tell when Back is being facetious.

[Warriorbird]

I've said this for the longest time. Everyone whines about having a "path to citizenship"...we already do. I've also brought up the fact that we have the highest legal immigrant population in the world. The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is the same as the difference between a successful business owner and a drug dealer that both grew up in the 'hood. One wants to work a little harder and follow the rules, and the other doesn't.

If only this were accurate it would be comforting. It plays into the idea that Mexico is as stable and uncorrupt a government as ours.

[Latrinsorm]

I've said this for the longest time. Everyone whines about having a "path to citizenship"...we already do. I've also brought up the fact that we have the highest legal immigrant population in the world. The difference between legal and illegal immigrants is the same as the difference between a successful business owner and a drug dealer that both grew up in the 'hood. One wants to work a little harder and follow the rules, and the other doesn't.You aren't a little suspicious of metrics that use raw population when extolling our country?

[zzentar]

You aren't a little suspicious of metrics that use raw population when extolling our country? of data

What kind of data do you want to be used? I personally would trust unfiltered data vs. data that has been skewed or filtered to make a political point.
~Zz

[Thondalar]

If only this were accurate it would be comforting. It plays into the idea that Mexico is as stable and uncorrupt a government as ours.

It's completely accurate. Feel free to prove me wrong. Mexico's government is just more blatantly corrupt...not that that has anything to do with anything. I thought we were talking about a path to citizenship, not Mexico's cartel problem.


You aren't a little suspicious of metrics that use raw population when extolling our country?

Use any metric you'd like. We have more legal immigrants to the US annually than any other country in the world. We have a higher legal immigrant raw population and percentage of total population than any other country in the world. This nation was pretty much built on legal immigration.

The requirements to become a citizen are very clearly defined, and you can get instructions in any language you'd like.

[Latrinsorm]

of data

What kind of data do you want to be used? I personally would trust unfiltered data vs. data that has been skewed or filtered to make a political point.
~ZzSuppose I ask you who the better batter is: Pete Rose or Ted Williams? If you say Pete Rose because he has more raw hits you are, with all due respect, an idiot. Not using a filter can "skew" the data just as much as filtering it, thus insisting on unfiltered data is just anti-intellectualism.
Use any metric you'd like. We have more legal immigrants to the US annually than any other country in the world. We have a higher legal immigrant raw population and percentage of total population than any other country in the world. This nation was pretty much built on legal immigration.

The requirements to become a citizen are very clearly defined, and you can get instructions in any language you'd like.Okay, well, that's my point. We do have by far and away the highest raw number of immigrants, four times higher than #2... but we are nowhere near the highest %. Only looking at countries with mega populations, there are 16 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-born_population) higher than us.

[Stretch]

There's only one answer to this border crisis.

6834

[Thondalar]

Okay, well, that's my point. We do have by far and away the highest raw number of immigrants, four times higher than #2... but we are nowhere near the highest %. Only looking at countries with mega populations, there are 16 higher than us.

What do you consider a mega population? The only one on that list with a higher percentage than us that's even approaching the US's population is Canada, with a whopping 10% of our population. Almost all of the countries that have a much higher percentage than ours are middle eastern countries that import most of their workers on purpose.

Russia, Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy, Japan, China, Mexico, South Korea, Norway, Denmark...I could go on and on. Of all the "big name" countries, USA has the highest number of legal immigrants by raw number and by percentage of population.

Thanks for linking that nifty chart proving it, though.

[Warriorbird]

It's completely accurate. Feel free to prove me wrong. Mexico's government is just more blatantly corrupt...not that that has anything to do with anything. I thought we were talking about a path to citizenship, not Mexico's cartel problem.

You act as though it isn't about them trying to find a better life. They just pay the smaller of two bribes and you act like this means they're somehow terrible people. You fail to consider what they come from and that fact completely. In your mind they're evil ne'er do wells for wanting to be citizens and just having paid a smaller bribe.

[Thondalar]

You act as though it isn't about them trying to find a better life. They just pay the smaller of two bribes and you act like this means they're somehow terrible people. You fail to consider what they come from and that fact completely. In your mind they're evil ne'er do wells for wanting to be citizens and just having paid a smaller bribe.

Er...what? If they want to come here and have a better life they can follow the same path that 45 million other legal immigrants living in America today have managed to follow.

I've got no problem with immigrants at all...hell, most of them love America more than the average American.

[Warriorbird]

Er...what? If they want to come here and have a better life they can follow the same path that 45 million other legal immigrants living in America today have managed to follow.

I've got no problem with immigrants at all...hell, most of them love America more than the average American.

$50,000 bribe versus $30,000 bribe.

[Thondalar]

$50,000 bribe versus $30,000 bribe.

Sorry for being confused about what you're talking about, but what are you talking about?

[Warriorbird]

Sorry for being confused about what you're talking about, but what are you talking about?

On average you have to bribe a government official $50,000 to get one of the legal immigration slots versus paying a coyote $30,000. It's not somehow a mysteriously easy or simple matter to "go the way all the other immigrants do" with a system that corrupt.

[Back]

Are they immigrants or refugees? Serious difference.

[Thondalar]

On average you have to bribe a government official $50,000 to get one of the legal immigration slots versus paying a coyote $30,000.

Er...what? Where are you getting this from? There are hundreds of thousands of "slots" every year. You're telling me the entire system is based on bribery? Why hasn't 20/20 exposed this yet?!?!!


It's not somehow a mysteriously easy or simple matter to "go the way all the other immigrants do" with a system that corrupt

You're right, it's not mysterious at all, and it's not supposed to be "simple". Anything worth having is worth working for. Get a green card for 5 years and work for your citizenship.

What do you want to do, completely open the border? Just say fuck it, people can come and go as they please?

[Methais]

Are they immigrants or refugees? Serious difference.

Here's Back again, regurgitating the latest media buzzword.

[Warriorbird]

Er...what? Where are you getting this from? There are hundreds of thousands of "slots" every year. You're telling me the entire system is based on bribery? Why hasn't 20/20 exposed this yet?!?!!



You're right, it's not mysterious at all, and it's not supposed to be "simple". Anything worth having is worth working for. Get a green card for 5 years and work for your citizenship.

What do you want to do, completely open the border? Just say fuck it, people can come and go as they please?

The system IN MEXICO yes. It's a truly fascinating notion that they haven't.

[Tgo01]

I'm confused why WB thinks our laws should be based around the corruptness of other countries' laws/government.

USA: "We'll allow 1000 Mexicans a year to become US citizens."
Democrats: "But...but Mexico's government is corrupt!"
USA: "Oh...well that's different! Open that border!"

[waywardgs]

I'm confused why WB thinks our laws should be based around the corruptness of other countries' laws/government.

USA: "We'll allow 1000 Mexicans a year to become US citizens."
Democrats: "But...but Mexico's government is corrupt!"
USA: "Oh...well that's different! Open that border!"

I think WB just wants laws to be based on reality instead of wishes.

[Warriorbird]

I'm confused why WB thinks our laws should be based around the corruptness of other countries' laws/government.

USA: "We'll allow 1000 Mexicans a year to become US citizens."
Democrats: "But...but Mexico's government is corrupt!"
USA: "Oh...well that's different! Open that border!"

Maybe, just maybe, I think that if we're going to have a constant stream we should find some way to make them more useful and work to address the ridiculous corruption in our Southern neighbor country.

[Back]

Here's Back again, regurgitating the latest media buzzword.

Which media buzzword are you talking about? I'm so underground I wear my sunglasses at night.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6i03g8scS1rqdguo.gif

[Tgo01]

I think WB just wants laws to be based on reality instead of wishes.

It's cool. We already let illegal aliens dictate laws when they are in our country, we might as well go all the way and allow them to dictate our laws before they even enter our country.


Maybe, just maybe, I think that if we're going to have a constant stream we should find some way to make them more useful and work to address the ridiculous corruption in our Southern neighbor country.

Or...we beef up our border security.

[Warriorbird]

Or...we beef up our border security.

That's worked about as well as the War on Drugs.

[Tgo01]

That's worked about as well as the War on Drugs.

Democrat motto: If all else fails...LEGALIZE IT!

We haven't become immortal yet, why do we bother to continue to invest money into science and medicine? It really does boggle the mind.

[waywardgs]

It's cool. We already let illegal aliens dictate laws when they are in our country, we might as well go all the way and allow them to dictate our laws before they even enter our country.

Make all the laws you want. If national policy creates an environment that makes it beneficial to millions to break those laws, those laws will be broken.


Or...we beef up our border security.

With lasers.

[waywardgs]

Democrat motto: If all else fails...LEGALIZE IT!


And then tax the shit out of it and make tons of money. Sweet deal.

[Tgo01]

With lasers.

And tanks. The problem is we have become a nation of pansies. Why our great great great great grandfathers would have dropped a missile on someone trying to illegally cross our border. Now? Now we give them food and shelter and medicine and money and a job and a ballot and point them to the nearest Democratic politician's poster to familiarize themselves with.

[Warriorbird]

Democrat motto: If all else fails...LEGALIZE IT!

We haven't become immortal yet, why do we bother to continue to invest money into science and medicine? It really does boggle the mind.

So instead of exploiting a resource we spend more money not to exploit it. Genius!

[waywardgs]

And tanks. The problem is we have become a nation of pansies. Why our great great great great grandfathers would have dropped a missile on someone trying to illegally cross our border. Now? Now we give them food and shelter and medicine and money and a job and a ballot and point them to the nearest Democratic politician's poster to familiarize themselves with.

If you say so. I would rather not be known as a nation of murderers, and I don't think the founding fathers intended on integrating murder into our constitution. But that's just me, I'm a softy who believes murder is wrong.

[Tgo01]

So instead of exploiting a resource we spend more money not to exploit it. Genius!

You see with your eyes but not with your mind.

So what's the magic number, WB? What's the magic number of people we allow to stream across our border before we become so top heavy we sink into the ocean like Guam?

[waywardgs]

You see with your eyes but not with your mind.

So what's the magic number, WB? What's the magic number of people we allow to stream across our border before we become so top heavy we sink into the ocean like Guam?

We hit it years ago. It was like 100,000. The rest of you 299,900,000 need to gtfo.

[Warriorbird]

You see with your eyes but not with your mind.

So what's the magic number, WB? What's the magic number of people we allow to stream across our border before we become so top heavy we sink into the ocean like Guam?

The magic number is turning them all into productive citizens. Isn't that heartwarming?

[Tgo01]

If you say so. I would rather not be known as a nation of murderers, and I don't think the founding fathers intended on integrating murder into our constitution. But that's just me, I'm a softy who believes murder is wrong.

You're probably right. I'm sure when our founding fathers were making laws they didn't figure our nation would actually become a nation of laws.


The magic number is turning them all into productive citizens. Isn't that heartwarming?

Come on, WB. Don't avoid the question.

Unless your answer is you think the US can accept an infinite number of immigrants and nothing bad would ever happen. If so then just say it. SAY IT!

[Tgo01]

Another thing that confuses me about Democrat logic.

Okay. So. Wait. Okay, right. Illegal aliens only do the jobs that no American ever wants to do, right? That's the argument for why we need illegal aliens, right?

Okay. So we no longer have illegal aliens, we make everyone in our country a US citizen.

Right. So then. Who does all of those jobs that no American wants to do?

I just blew your mind. Have fun finding an illegal alien to clean up the mess.

[Warriorbird]

Another thing that confuses me about Democrat logic.

Okay. So. Wait. Okay, right. Illegal aliens only do the jobs that no American ever wants to do, right? That's the argument for why we need illegal aliens, right?

Okay. So we no longer have illegal aliens, we make everyone in our country a US citizen.

Right. So then. Who does all of those jobs that no American wants to do?

I just blew your mind. Have fun finding an illegal alien to clean up the mess.

I don't know about you but I'd love to have more citizens with a strong word ethic.

Your lame word games don't really have much importance compared to that.


Unless your answer is you think the US can accept an infinite number of immigrants and nothing bad would ever happen. If so then just say it. SAY IT!

Are you trying to engage in a different discussion? Yep!

[waywardgs]

Hey, I'd love to shut down the borders. We're too busy spending money on a boondoggle of a plane, various wars that not only make no sense but end up with the exact result we were trying to avoid, and bitching about gay marriage. So I'm not too optimistic that we can do anything but mitigate the disasters we make after they happen. It's what we do, evidently. And not very well.

[Back]

And tanks. The problem is we have become a nation of pansies.

A pansie is a bad thing?


Why our great great great great grandfathers would have dropped a missile on someone trying to illegally cross our border.

Except they didn't.


Now? Now we give them food and shelter and medicine and money and a job and a ballot and point them to the nearest Democratic politician's poster to familiarize themselves with.

So you agree that old timey days were brutal for people in need? Why do you think that compassion is solely an evil liberal trait?

[Jarvan]

Are they immigrants or refugees? Serious difference.


"A refugee is a person who is outside their home country because they have suffered (or feared) persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or because they are a member of a persecuted social category of persons or because they are fleeing a war. Such a person may be called an 'asylum seeker' until recognized by the state where they make a claim."

No.

[Jarvan]

Maybe, just maybe, I think that if we're going to have a constant stream we should find some way to make them more useful and work to address the ridiculous corruption in our Southern neighbor country.

We could always put them to work stopping other people from trying to enter illegally... say a head on a pike per half mile? Worked for Vlad the Impaler.

[Jarvan]

I don't know about you but I'd love to have more citizens with a strong word ethic.

Your lame word games don't really have much importance compared to that.



Are you trying to engage in a different discussion? Yep!

Not sure most of these Illegal aliens have a strong Word Ethic. But if they do, it's likely in Spanish.

[JackWhisper]

Black people have a strong Word Ethic too. It's in Ebonics, though. Don't discriminate!

http://tinyurl.com/knkhad3

[Jarvan]

Here is a simple solution.

Dig a mile wide trench across the border. Fill it will sharks, and gators. Maybe a few mines.

Allow anyone to try to cross it, and if they do, they are granted citizenship.

Then televise it, maybe pay per view. Income stream, and only the smartest or strongest get in!

I seriously do find it funny that nut job lefties think illegal immigration is PERFECTLY ok.

I also find it funny that WB thinks that just because other countries are even more corrupt then us, it's ok for them to violate our laws and borders.

I have to admit.. I am starting to agree with Back tho... we SHOULD make all the world US citizens... right after we invade and take over their country. Just consider them provinces, tax the fuck out of them, but don't allow them to really vote.

Then we institute a "Purge" like in the movie, and reduce the world's population by 75%. THEN we can afford to take care of the entire world, AND we will have wiped out hunger. Problems solved.

[JackWhisper]

That movie was seriously monotonous. And semi-bad. 4/10.

[Tgo01]

I don't know about you but I'd love to have more citizens with a strong word ethic.

Your lame word games don't really have much importance compared to that.

Word games? Do you have like a rolodex of counter arguments and you just pick one at random at hope it fits the situation? :/


Are you trying to engage in a different discussion? Yep!

No. This is very much what we have been talking about. You seem to be implying that we should just open the borders to anyone who wants to come in. Well there has to be a point where we can longer function as a country because there are too many people flooding in every day.

I also want to go back to what you said earlier...we should work on making illegal aliens productive members of society? The US already spends about 3.4 trillion dollars a year on education, welfare programs, medical care, social security blah blah blah, almost 50% of people pay no federal taxes and something like 20% actually make a profit off of federal taxes, 5% of the US population is on welfare, 15% are on foodstamps/living in poverty, 13% of Americans are either unemployed or underemployed...yet we're just going to take in tens of millions of more people and somehow make them "productive members of society."

Alright then. How many more wishes is your genie going to grant you?


Hey, I'd love to shut down the borders. We're too busy spending money on a boondoggle of a plane, various wars that not only make no sense but end up with the exact result we were trying to avoid, and bitching about gay marriage. So I'm not too optimistic that we can do anything but mitigate the disasters we make after they happen. It's what we do, evidently. And not very well.

Uh-huh...

[Jarvan]

Didn't you hear TG... Every Dollar of Welfare/Unemployment CREATES more wealth and jobs in America.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfP0iddR4lI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q06u0n9UfW0

Apparently Unemployment checks.. for every 1 dollar given, the US gets 2 back. Interesting... Also.. food stamps = more jobs as well. EVERY handout = more jobs to her.

So... 20+ more million illegals, would just mean 50+ million more jobs.. in fact, we should have a NEGATIVE unemployment at this rate. 20% of the country now getting foodstamps.. we should be having RECORD jobs gains every month.

Where are they?

[Demgar]

I still can't beleive people want to get into the US. I'm doing everything I can to stay out. Once America has her talons of "freedom" in you, they are very difficult to get out.

[Methais]

Which media buzzword are you talking about? I'm so underground I wear my sunglasses at night.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6i03g8scS1rqdguo.gif

Your post was one sentence long. Let's see how many guesses it takes for you.

And....go!

[Atlanteax]

These children are totally being imported so that Democrats can get votes.

Illegal immigrants only come here for government benefits.

You nailed it.

Now, taking in consideration of Back's concerns, we should also figure out a way to deport crack babies for adoption by foreign countries, as they will only end up on the welfare payroll at home.

[Parkbandit]

You act as though it isn't about them trying to find a better life. They just pay the smaller of two bribes and you act like this means they're somehow terrible people. You fail to consider what they come from and that fact completely. In your mind they're evil ne'er do wells for wanting to be citizens and just having paid a smaller bribe.

Let's pretend you are President Warriorbird. But instead of going through Congress, you have Obama like powers that enable you to make changes to anything you want.

What is your answer to the immigration problem (if you even believe it's a problem)? Tell us what the perfect solution would be in your mind.

This way, no evil meanie head Republicans will create your position for you. You have our full attention.

[Warriorbird]

Let's pretend you are President Warriorbird. But instead of going through Congress, you have Obama like powers that enable you to make changes to anything you want.

What is your answer to the immigration problem (if you even believe it's a problem)? Tell us what the perfect solution would be in your mind.

This way, no evil meanie head Republicans will create your position for you. You have our full attention.

You mean I have the ability to use executive orders like every other President? How outlandish!

I've answered this before, but you pretty clearly made that point to toss in some extra anti Obama derping.

I'd destabilize the Mexican cartels through marijuana legalization and an alteration of the legality of most harder drugs into rehab based sentences/fines for users. This would eliminate a lot of the pressure on the border through the mystical power of the free market.

I'd toss out some nasty fines on the major American institutions employing illegals (it is hilarious that Republicans think they come here solely for government benefits) and get upset Republicans and then I'd make a national id card and upset Democrats, enabling the far more efficient delivery of government services and simultaneously squelching Republican voter id whining.

Then I'd consider leaning on Mexico and Nieto's national sovereignty and suggesting that we'd turn them into a territory if he didn't stem the immigration problem and blatantly use that as a push to nab Mexico's national resources, Putin style. With an id card (with robust security measures) we could more adequately track the ones in America and work towards getting them to pay taxes over time to give them full citizenship rights. Since they would probably like all aspects of citizenship, they'd be motivated to push for it. We could throw a VAT on the ones who weren't citizens to put a tax based incentive on there as well.

I even have some supporters already.


It's different though.. Mexico poses no threat to anyone.. we could send Boy Scout Troop #11 into there and have them kick the entire Mexican Army's ass.. whereas Russia actually poses a threat to Ukraine.

[Parkbandit]

You mean I have the ability to use executive orders like every other President? How outlandish!

I've answered this before, but you pretty clearly made that point to toss in some extra anti Obama derping.

Like every other President? Next, you should say how few times Obama has used it compared to other Presidents.. because it's the same thing!

Keep marching to your pro-Obama derping.



I'd destabilize the Mexican cartels through marijuana legalization and an alteration of the legality of most harder drugs into rehab based sentences/fines for users. This would eliminate a lot of the pressure on the border through the mystical power of the free market.

I'd toss out some nasty fines on the major American institutions employing illegals (it is hilarious that Republicans think they come here solely for government benefits) and get upset Republicans and then I'd make a national id card and upset Democrats, enabling the far more efficient delivery of government services and simultaneously squelching Republican voter id whining.

Then I'd consider leaning on Mexico and Nieto's national sovereignty and suggesting that we'd turn them into a territory if he didn't stem the immigration problem and blatantly use that as a push to nab Mexico's national resources, Putin style. With an id card (with robust security measures) we could more adequately track the ones in America and work towards getting them to pay taxes over time to give them full citizenship rights. Since they would probably like all aspects of citizenship, they'd be motivated to push for it. We could throw a VAT on the ones who weren't citizens to put a tax based incentive on there as well.

I even have some supporters already.

I probably should have first had you identify the problem with the illegal immigration we are currently going through.. since none of this would address the amount of illegal people flooding into our country.

Do you believe we should have open borders to allow anyone into the country that wants to come?

[Thondalar]

I think WB just wants laws to be based on reality instead of wishes.

Ok, so, like I've asked a hundred times...what would you do? You, WB, anyone...what would you change about our current system? It's great to sit here and say it's broken, but how would you fix it?

[Methais]

Ok, so, like I've asked a hundred times...what would you do? You, WB, anyone...what would you change about our current system? It's great to sit here and say it's broken, but how would you fix it?

Put an impenetrable wall up, with multiple NES stations embedded into it, with a copy of Battletoads running on each one.

If they beat the motorcycle level on their first try, they can come through.

They only get to try once every 3 days, and once a month they'll be given the opportunity to beat Contra without the 30 lives cheat as an alternative.

[Thondalar]

I'd destabilize the Mexican cartels through marijuana legalization and an alteration of the legality of most harder drugs into rehab based sentences/fines for users. This would eliminate a lot of the pressure on the border through the mystical power of the free market.

I'd toss out some nasty fines on the major American institutions employing illegals (it is hilarious that Republicans think they come here solely for government benefits) and get upset Republicans and then I'd make a national id card and upset Democrats, enabling the far more efficient delivery of government services and simultaneously squelching Republican voter id whining.

Then I'd consider leaning on Mexico and Nieto's national sovereignty and suggesting that we'd turn them into a territory if he didn't stem the immigration problem and blatantly use that as a push to nab Mexico's national resources, Putin style. With an id card (with robust security measures) we could more adequately track the ones in America and work towards getting them to pay taxes over time to give them full citizenship rights. Since they would probably like all aspects of citizenship, they'd be motivated to push for it. We could throw a VAT on the ones who weren't citizens to put a tax based incentive on there as well.

I'm pretty cool with all of this, although I'd fully legalize all of the drugs. The problem is, while these things may have an affect on our immigration levels, they have nothing to do with our immigration policy. Apparently that's the big issue at hand. I'm of the belief that our current "path to citizenship" is intelligently planned, effective, and successful. Apparently a lot of people disagree with that assessment, so I'm looking for how they would change it.

This topic comes up at the bar sometimes, and my query is always "well, how would you fix it?" Average Joe A repeats something he heard somewhere, usually along the lines of "we need a clear path to citizenship!", totally oblivious to the fact that we already have one. I find this to be common with people on the left screaming for change...they're completely clueless about the system already in place. But by God, it needs to be changed!

[SHAFT]

Put an impenetrable wall up, with multiple NES stations embedded into it, with a copy of Battletoads running on each one.

If they beat the motorcycle level on their first try, they can come through.

They only get to try once every 3 days, and once a month they'll be given the opportunity to beat Contra without the 30 lives cheat as an alternative.

If they can beat ghost n goblins they win a new car!!!!

[Atlanteax]

Multiple Republicans trying to alter what I say and misunderstanding the point of citizenship? Pretty standard.

Because you *never EVAR* do that.

[JackWhisper]

Having firsthand experience with a friend having a seizure and nearly dying from their FIRST tab of Ecstacy, I say legalizing all drugs is just stupid. Sorry. Some drugs kill you. Some drugs make you do stupid shit like eat your own children's arms. Marijuana doesn't do that. Salvia does though! Heh.

[Thondalar]

Having firsthand experience with a friend having a seizure and nearly dying from their FIRST tab of Ecstacy, I say legalizing all drugs is just stupid. Sorry. Some drugs kill you. Some drugs make you do stupid shit like eat your own children's arms. Marijuana doesn't do that. Salvia does though! Heh.

Your friend managed to eat the X even with strict laws against it. You're under the incorrect assumption that just because something is legal, more people will do it. I'm under the assumption that less people will do it, because it will remove the "fuck you, authority!" mentality that causes a lot of people to do rebellious things in the first place.

As a side note, I had a friend eat shrimp for the first time and almost die. Ban shrimp!

[Warriorbird]

Like every other President? Next, you should say how few times Obama has used it compared to other Presidents.. because it's the same thing!

Keep marching to your pro-Obama derping.

Obama has used 183. In your magical thinking based worldview this somehow must be equivalent to FDR, TR, and Wilson, but the truth is this is even less than Bush. Perception here, reality here.


I probably should have first had you identify the problem with the illegal immigration we are currently going through.. since none of this would address the amount of illegal people flooding into our country.

Do you believe we should have open borders to allow anyone into the country that wants to come?

Turning them into a territory would render most of the situation moot if appropriately planned and backed up. Said immigration is not tracked. That's most of the "problem" though.


Because you *never EVAR* do that.

It totally strengthens your argument when you do things that you claim are bad when I do.

[Latrinsorm]

What do you consider a mega population?One million or higher. I was using mega in the strict sense, like mega death or mega man.
The only one on that list with a higher percentage than us that's even approaching the US's population is Canada, with a whopping 10% of our population. Almost all of the countries that have a much higher percentage than ours are middle eastern countries that import most of their workers on purpose.Why shouldn't that immigration count? You don't think we import workers on purpose?
Russia, Germany, France, England, Spain, Italy, Japan, China, Mexico, South Korea, Norway, Denmark...I could go on and on. Of all the "big name" countries, USA has the highest number of legal immigrants by raw number and by percentage of population.

Thanks for linking that nifty chart proving it, though.And in return, thank you for once again unequivocally demonstrating your bias.

1. You claim that population size is what makes a country count.
2. You list out a number of countries with lower % than ours, including Norway and Denmark.
3. Sweden, Switzerland, Australia, and Austria have a higher population than both, but you ignore them because they have a higher % than us.

Note how I didn't even have to point out how you backtracked on "We have a higher legal immigrant percentage of total population than any other country in the world." :)
I'm confused why WB thinks our laws should be based around the corruptness of other countries' laws/government.

USA: "We'll allow 1000 Mexicans a year to become US citizens."
Democrats: "But...but Mexico's government is corrupt!"
USA: "Oh...well that's different! Open that border!"Because their laws/government have consequences on our lives. I assume you agree that we should increase defense spending when another country declares war on us, yes? Same principle.
We could always put them to work stopping other people from trying to enter illegally... say a head on a pike per half mile? Worked for Vlad the Impaler.It worked in the sense that the rest of the Turks promptly invaded his country, annihilated his forces, and dethroned him. But maybe that just shows that heads alone don't cut it (so to speak). Maybe the smart play is to crucify people all along the roads, none of this "per half mile" wimpiness. That's how the Romans responded to the rebellion in Judea, and that's why absolutely (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitos_War) nothing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba%27s_revolt) happened afterwards.

[Methais]

Obama has used 183. In your magical thinking based worldview this somehow must be equivalent to FDR, TR, and Wilson, but the truth is this is even less than Bush. Perception here, reality here.

Wouldn't it make more sense to base that on the contents of the EOs instead of the quantity? Like...I doubt Bush or even any of the others mentioned just started throwing EOs out there when they didn't get their way with Congress, for example.

[Tgo01]

With 2.5 years to go, Obama is the 18th highest president in number of executive orders issued. Not bad for a president who claimed executive orders were unconstitutional and he vowed to never use them.


Make a semantic argument and get called on it.

Make an argument that totally ignores the point of making them citizens and get called on it.

You need a new rolodex of arguments :(

[Parkbandit]

Obama has used 183. In your magical thinking based worldview this somehow must be equivalent to FDR, TR, and Wilson, but the truth is this is even less than Bush. Perception here, reality here.

Woosh.


Turning them into a territory would render most of the situation moot if appropriately planned and backed up. Said immigration is not tracked. That's most of the "problem" though.

How do you figure?

What is the problem, as you see it? You didn't say whether or not you believe we should simply have an open border policy.




It totally strengthens your argument when you do things that you claim are bad when I do.

It makes you look like a raging hypocrite to complain when others do things you consistently do.

[Thondalar]

Why shouldn't that immigration count? You don't think we import workers on purpose?

Of course we do. We even have a lottery system for countries that have comparably small numbers of immigrants to our country from theirs. The point here is that these countries have extremely small populations, but very large businesses that require a lot of workers, which they have to give big incentives to get people to come there for work. The US does not fall into any of those categories.


And in return, thank you for once again unequivocally demonstrating your bias.

1. You claim that population size is what makes a country count.
2. You list out a number of countries with lower % than ours, including Norway and Denmark.
3. Sweden, Switzerland, Australia, and Austria have a higher population than both, but you ignore them because they have a higher % than us.

Note how I didn't even have to point out how you backtracked on "We have a higher legal immigrant percentage of total population than any other country in the world." :)

I hadn't backtracked on that yet, but I'll be glad to now. You're correct, Latrin, there are a handful of countries in the world that have a higher percentage than the US of total population that are immigrants. So what? The vast majority don't, and whether you want to admit it or not, the raw number does matter. Let's ignore this pointless exercise, and start over...

"The US has a higher raw population of legal immigrants than any other country in the world, and a higher percentage of immigrants as total population than the vast majority of other countries in the world, and the highest percentage of any country with a total population over 30 million."

If you're happy with the accuracy of that sentence, maybe we can get back to talking about the actual issue.

[Thondalar]

Turning them into a territory would render most of the situation moot if appropriately planned and backed up. Said immigration is not tracked. That's most of the "problem" though.

I'm sure annexing Mexico would have zero impact on our global image. Not that that matters, we're motherfuckin' 'Murica! You can't tell us what to do!

[Jarvan]

I'm sure annexing Mexico would have zero impact on our global image. Not that that matters, we're motherfuckin' 'Murica! You can't tell us what to do!

Well, Putin is doing it, and apparently the world doesn't care.

[JackWhisper]

Yeah but... who the hell actually WANTS Crimea? I mean come on, that's like giving Canada Detroit. It's just not cricket.

[Jarvan]

Yeah but... who the hell actually WANTS Crimea? I mean come on, that's like giving Canada Detroit. It's just not cricket.

Well, Russia needed it for their Navy. Besides, it was just a stepping stone for all the other pieces of Ukraine.

Just like Mexico would be for the rest of Central America.

[Latrinsorm]

Wouldn't it make more sense to base that on the contents of the EOs instead of the quantity? Like...I doubt Bush or even any of the others mentioned just started throwing EOs out there when they didn't get their way with Congress, for example.All of Obama's are awesome and all of Bush's are fascist. Duh.
I hadn't backtracked on that yet, but I'll be glad to now. You're correct, Latrin, there are a handful of countries in the world that have a higher percentage than the US of total population that are immigrants. So what?If you'll recall, all I initially asked was whether you were a little suspicious of raw metrics that extol America. As we have determined, the answer is that you should be. I respectfully submit that remembering this intercourse will be more useful than remembering the 1,000,000th time you disagreed with people about immigration. Obviously I never hoped to bend your mind about the latter, that is impossible.

[Thondalar]

If you'll recall, all I initially asked was whether you were a little suspicious of raw metrics that extol America. As we have determined, the answer is that you should be.

To answer that, an answer you already know, is that I'm suspicious of any metrics relating to anything. A healthy dose of suspicion is required for any logical conclusion, imo.


I respectfully submit that remembering this intercourse will be more useful than remembering the 1,000,000th time you disagreed with people about immigration. Obviously I never hoped to bend your mind about the latter, that is impossible.

I think, when the empirical evidence is considered in it's entirety, there is no way anyone could say that we have a terrible immigration policy that needs to be fundamentally changed. If you disagree, I'd love to hear why.

[Thondalar]

Well, Putin is doing it, and apparently the world doesn't care.

A couple things on this...for one, everyone knows Russia (and especially Putin), is a bunch of land-grabby Imperialists that want nothing more than to take over the world. If Russia annexes Crimea, the world goes "oh, well, shit...there's Russia doing that shit again". The US, on the other hand, has been doing everything they possibly can to diminish the "Imperialist US" tag that a lot of our global detractors have placed on us. For another, a lot of the most vocal countries in the EU that love to talk shit about us get most of their energy from Russia...so they're loathe to speak ill. If we had a better standing with Germany (thanks, Obama!) we might be able to get them in on some EU-wide sanctions, but that's unlikely.

Not saying it'll turn out the same, but it seems to me like the EU's position on Russia and Crimea/Ukraine seems eerily similar to Britain and France's position on Germany after Hitler took back the Rhineland..."Ok, well, it's technically German land anyway, so I guess you can have that...just nothing else!" Then later, when he took back Sudetenland...same thing. Chamberlain is all like "oh, well, ok...but only the areas that are more than 50% German..."

[Thondalar]

Appeasement never works. Just ask Charles the Bald.

[Latrinsorm]

To answer that, an answer you already know, is that I'm suspicious of any metrics relating to anything. A healthy dose of suspicion is required for any logical conclusion, imo.Yes, I know what you believe about yourself. The hope is that enough evidence to the contrary will make you reconsider that belief.
I think, when the empirical evidence is considered in it's entirety, there is no way anyone could say that we have a terrible immigration policy that needs to be fundamentally changed. If you disagree, I'd love to hear why.I know that when the empirical evidence is considered, nobody here has said that. This is another habit you could stand to break: the false dichotomy. There is middle ground between totally fine and terrible, and someone disagreeing with you may well support that middle ground over both extremes.

[Jarvan]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/28/illegal-immigrants-protest-outside-white-house-with-little-fear-repercussions/


"According to The Washington Times, illegal immigrant protesters also planned to demonstrate outside the White House on Monday afternoon, to call on immigration groups to boycott any administration meetings until illegal immigrants are included in those talks."

Cause you know... those that break the crimes should have a say in what happens to them, that's why we include criminals in discussions about mandatory jail times.

Frankly, I am kinda glad I will likely die fairly young, this world is going to shit.

[Candor]

Illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL immigrants. They are criminals, and need to be treated as such.

[Tgo01]

Illegal immigrants are ILLEGAL immigrants.

Hey that's undocumented worker, pal! They are just waiting for the paperwork to come through.

Right now I'm an undocumented Boobie Inspector. Totally legit.

[Methais]

Know what I don't get about these people...they want to come to the US "for a better life," but at the same time they want to turn the US into Mexico, the very place they're fleeing from "for a better life".

This lack of logic explains why they vote democrat.


Hey that's undocumented worker, pal! They are just waiting for the paperwork to come through.

Right now I'm an undocumented Boobie Inspector. Totally legit.

Back will be along soon to remind us that they're now called refugees.

[Tgo01]

Back will be along soon to remind us that they're now called refugees.

Ah shit, don't tell me we're the changing the term to refugees. At least undocumented worker implies they are here to work, refugee implies they are seeking aid from the government.

[Methais]

Ah shit, don't tell me we're the changing the term to refugees. At least undocumented worker implies they are here to work, refugee implies they are seeking aid from the government.

NO IT MEANS THE CARTELS ARE CHASING THEM WITH GUNS THAT THEY GOT FROM US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111

[Warriorbird]

NO IT MEANS THE CARTELS ARE CHASING THEM WITH GUNS THAT THEY GOT FROM US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111

I heard that drug cartels never had guns before Eric Holder and Fast and Furious. ZOMG!

[Atlanteax]

I heard that drug cartels never had guns before Eric Holder and Fast and Furious. ZOMG!

Before Eric Holder, there was a trickle of guns to them, since Eric Holder, there has been a flood. ZOMG!

[Tgo01]

I heard that drug cartels never had guns before Eric Holder and Fast and Furious. ZOMG!

To be fair I don't think it's all Obama's fault.

Like, 99%, tops.

[Methais]

I heard that drug cartels never had guns before Eric Holder and Fast and Furious. ZOMG!

OH SRY I WAS TALKING ABOUT GUNS THAT WERE ACQUIRED THROUGH STRAW PURCHASES AT GUN SHOWS WHAT IS THIS FAST AND FURIOUS YOU SPEAK OF I'M SURE THAT ONLY ACCOUNTS FOR .000000000001% OF THE GUNS!!!

[Johnny Five]

INB4 Back saying you are all racists and hate children and republicans are the spawn of Satan all the while he is going...

http://148bcec7bb334341cd98-2fb779bd12ec72d4612275342f2c9187.r31.cf1.rackcdn.c om/c08c5e1aa5b4d1ca804e4b7ff31e5985.gif
I LOVE OBAMA! HE DOES NO WRONG!

[Methais]

INB4 Back saying you are all racists and hate children and republicans are the spawn of Satan all the while he is going...

http://148bcec7bb334341cd98-2fb779bd12ec72d4612275342f2c9187.r31.cf1.rackcdn.c om/c08c5e1aa5b4d1ca804e4b7ff31e5985.gif
I LOVE OBAMA! HE DOES NO WRONG!

Need a scarf photoshop.

[Johnny Five]

Need a scarf photoshop.

My photoshop skills are mediocre at best.

[Methais]

http://i.imgur.com/2dWmprl.jpg

[Thondalar]

I know that when the empirical evidence is considered, nobody here has said that.

If we all agree that the system isn't broken, what are we arguing about?

[Latrinsorm]

If we all agree that the system isn't broken, what are we arguing about?There is middle ground between totally fine and broken, and someone disagreeing with you may well support that middle ground over both extremes.

[Atlanteax]

There is middle ground between totally fine and broken, and someone disagreeing with you may well support that middle ground over both extremes.

NO WAI

[Thondalar]

There is middle ground between totally fine and broken, and someone disagreeing with you may well support that middle ground over both extremes.

Ok, so what needs to be fixed?

[AnticorRifling]

Having done mission work building homes in Reynosa I still say we should assist in fixing the root cause, not just throwing the band-aid of "for the children we should let everyone come in without check or question". But then again we're damned and vilified if we help and we're damned and vilified if we don't.

[Latrinsorm]

Ok, so what needs to be fixed?Mainly surveillance. Any other fixes will be impotent without it anyway.

[Warriorbird]

Mainly surveillance. Any other fixes will be impotent without it anyway.

Soon we'll even have machines you can't trust, much less people.

[Thondalar]

Soon we'll even have machines you can't trust, much less people.

The machines will always depend on people running them...so the root issue will still be the same.

Until they become self-aware, of course.

[Thondalar]

Mainly surveillance. Any other fixes will be impotent without it anyway.


http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww179/wonkybiff/gifs/715keq.gif


apparently I fail not only at posting correctly-sized images, but gifs in their entirety. Anyway, best facepalm ever imo. And yes, because he's black.

[Warriorbird]

The machines will always depend on people running them...so the root issue will still be the same.

Until they become self-aware, of course.

Yeah. That's what I was referring to. Once that happens we can't trust them too.

[Latrinsorm]

The machines will always depend on people running them...so the root issue will still be the same.

Until they become self-aware, of course.People run cars, but cars are faster than people. People run MRIs, but MRIs are more reliable than our eyes. People run computers, but computers calculate sums more quickly and more reliably than people. People run cameras, but the photographic record is vastly more reliable than our memory.

Technology works. That's really all there is to it.

[Warriorbird]

People run cars, but cars are faster than people. People run MRIs, but MRIs are more reliable than our eyes. People run computers, but computers calculate sums more quickly and more reliably than people. People run cameras, but the photographic record is vastly more reliable than our memory.

Technology works. That's really all there is to it.

Have you ever watched a Russian dash cam video? It isn't the technology we mistrust.

[Latrinsorm]

Have you ever watched a Russian dash cam video? It isn't the technology we mistrust.So technology successfully reduces corruption in Russia (in RUSSIA), and you don't want more of it? They're at +16 places in the Corruptions Perceptions Index over the past two years! Give 'em ten times the cameras and they might beat the average!

[Warriorbird]

So technology successfully reduces corruption in Russia (in RUSSIA), and you don't want more of it? They're at +16 places in the Corruptions Perceptions Index over the past two years! Give 'em ten times the cameras and they might beat the average!

And when we reach the singularity we'll have technology that we can't trust or control too. Before that, we have people we can't control.

You might trust Putin. Maybe you looked into his eyes like Bush. I don't.

[JackWhisper]

Them dang Asians are quick at calculating sums on an abacus though. There's game shows where they compete against computers, calculators, all sorts of stuff. John Henry style!

[Latrinsorm]

And when we reach the singularity we'll have technology that we can't trust or control too. Before that, we have people we can't control.

You might trust Putin. Maybe you looked into his eyes like Bush. I don't.Let me see if I have this right: I point out how surveillance has successfully reduced government corruption, you dismiss me as trusting the government... that I am advocating surveillance of... and am criticizing as corrupt.