Who asks a person this?

[Dwaar]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/texas-man-had-perfect-response-160009918.html

So the counter guy says "equal rights for gay people!"

President says, "are you gay"?

-So

1. Does that not seem a little personal?
2. Are gay people the only ones that are able to believe in equal rights for gay people?

I wonder what would have happened if the guy said, "No I'm not gay"... I would have loved to have seen the Presidents face if that had been the response.

Not really a big deal... just seemed funny to me, because I personally would never ask a stranger their sexual orientation. But that is just me.

[Latrinsorm]

The President did. It's right in the article.

[Wrathbringer]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/texas-man-had-perfect-response-160009918.html

So the counter guy says "equal rights for gay people!"

President says, "are you gay"?

-So

1. Does that not seem a little personal?
2. Are gay people the only ones that are able to believe in equal rights for gay people?

I wonder what would have happened if the guy said, "No I'm not gay"... I would have loved to have seen the Presidents face if that had been the response.

Not really a big deal... just seemed funny to me, because I personally would never ask a stranger their sexual orientation. But that is just me.

He was probably just looking for some strange.

[Dwaar]

He was probably just looking for some strange.

Hey I'd hit it... save the stained t-shirt... then make millions selling the book and movie rights. Got to pay the bills you know.

[Keller]

I personally would never ask a stranger their sexual orientation. But that is just me.

My first question - how insecure do you have to be to not even be able to ask a stranger their sexual orientation?

My second question - Dwaar, are you gay?

[Tgo01]

The President did. It's right in the article.

Holy shit! He's right!

[Dwaar]

My first question - how insecure do you have to be to not even be able to ask a stranger their sexual orientation?

My second question - Dwaar, are you gay?

Insecure? It's called having manners. It's none of my business to ask a complete stranger who they prefer to have sex with. From your question though... I would assume you are an ignorant and poorly raised douchebag... but I wouldn't ask you what your childhood was like.

Also... what would it matter if I was? Or wasn't? If you're looking for a date though... just ask.

[JackWhisper]

My adopted sister is gay. I learned from a very early age that asking one's sexual orientation is an icebreaker, usually to feel out whether or not one is in a relationship. After going out with her to a club and watching her ask seven different women if they were gay, right off the bat, it felt kind of old hat. It's not rude. It's a question. It's only bad manners because of the closed way you were raised. And if you ask it disrespectfully. Can someone not be curious without offending someone to the core of their being? Come on. Grow some skin. Your veins are showing.

[Jeril]

My adopted sister is gay. I learned from a very early age that asking one's sexual orientation is an icebreaker, usually to feel out whether or not one is in a relationship. After going out with her to a club and watching her ask seven different women if they were gay, right off the bat, it felt kind of old hat. It's not rude. It's a question. It's only bad manners because of the closed way you were raised. And if you ask it disrespectfully. Can someone not be curious without offending someone to the core of their being? Come on. Grow some skin. Your veins are showing.

Two different situations there though Jack-O, a total stranger whom you've got no interest in and a total stranger you can possibly see yourself getting into.

[Dwaar]

My adopted sister is gay. I learned from a very early age that asking one's sexual orientation is an icebreaker, usually to feel out whether or not one is in a relationship. After going out with her to a club and watching her ask seven different women if they were gay, right off the bat, it felt kind of old hat. It's not rude. It's a question. It's only bad manners because of the closed way you were raised. And if you ask it disrespectfully. Can someone not be curious without offending someone to the core of their being? Come on. Grow some skin. Your veins are showing.

So because your sister just walks up to complete strangers and says "hey you gay?".. right off the bat? ... that should just be considered normal? That is just a lack of manners.

Walk up and just ask someone... "hey you straight".. "hey how much money you got".. "hey how big are your tits".. "hey how big is your dick".. "hey do you like being spanked in bed".. "hey can I pee on you after sex"..

The list could go on... just because people these days do it, doesn't mean they should. It's not about growing skin.. it's about being respectful of others and knowing that you are not the center of the universe... and just because you may want to know something, doesn't mean you should place others in that position of answering.

I like how you didn't mention how those women may have responded... or what their replies were... or suggest any care or concern for the position that your sister put them in. So sorry to say.. just in my opinion.. your sister is rude. But so many are selfish these days, or inconsiderate... I'm not even sure if there are any standards left.

[TheEschaton]

Asking someone their sexual orientation *shouldn't* be a shameful topic, and asking if someone is gay has only been shameful because the hetero-normative trend has dictated it as such. Would you find it shameful or overly personal if a gay person asked if you were straight? I wouldn't.

[Wrathbringer]

Insecure? It's called having manners. It's none of my business to ask a complete stranger who they prefer to have sex with. From your question though... I would assume you are an ignorant and poorly raised douchebag... but I wouldn't ask you what your childhood was like.

Also... what would it matter if I was? Or wasn't? If you're looking for a date though... just ask.

Have to agree. Both about the manners and Keller being an ignorant and poorly raised douchebag.

[Dwaar]

Asking someone their sexual orientation *shouldn't* be a shameful topic, and asking if someone is gay has only been shameful because the hetero-normative trend has dictated it as such. Would you find it shameful or overly personal if a gay person asked if you were straight? I wouldn't.

I never said you couldn't "ask someone their sexual orientation"... I said "you shouldn't walk up to a complete STRANGER and ask them who they like fucking"...

I swear people just like to read what they want to.

And yes... I would tell them to fuck off if they just walked up to me and asked me that. It's none of their business. I don't know them, they don't know me... and no conversation to get to know someone was done prior to asking me. I would do this for any number of questions or topics, if a complete STRANGER, asked me. (No this does not apply to simple things like "hey, having a good time at the party?" ---so don't go overboard with what I'm referring to.)

Again.. this applies to complete STRANGERS.

[Tgo01]

To be fair to Obama, the cashier is the one who started the gay conversation.

[Dwaar]

To be fair to Obama, the cashier is the one who started the gay conversation.

All he said was "equal rights for gay people"... so you totally ignored my second point...

Again... I don't care that it happened... I just find it odd that the Presidents first thought, idea, question... would be who the guy likes fucking. Just seems odd and immeasurably to personal of a question to ask a complete STRANGER.

He could have simply said.. "I fully agree with you and we're working to ensure that everyone is treated fairly" or something similar.... what does the guys sexual orientation have to do with the idea he was expressing?

[Tgo01]

what does the guys sexual orientation have to do with the idea he was expressing?

Nothing, but again to be fair it's nice to see people who are straight standing up for gay rights. Gays have been screaming for equal rights for decades so it's kind of boring now.

A straight person demanding equal rights, we can sell tickets!!

[Dwaar]

Nothing, but again to be fair it's nice to see people who are straight standing up for gay rights. Gays have been screaming for equal rights for decades so it's kind of boring now.
A straight person demanding equal rights, we can sell tickets!!

I agree with you that it's nice that people (doesn't matter straight or gay to me) are standing up for gay rights. Hopefully they just pass legislation to make civil unions legal across the whole Nation, regardless if it's man/man, man/woman, woman/woman. People should be able to love and start a family with who they want.

But, I was saying that the idea expressed - "equal rights for gay people" - is a good idea to express. It shouldn't matter one bit what the sexual orientation of the person expressing it is. Hence I found it odd, that the President would immediately ask that question.

[Dendum]

It isn't that odd. If someone had said "we need more money for the arts" and I said..hey are you an artist?...it it just one way the conversation can go. It only becomes odd if you find the question itself offensive.

...I suppose they could be a douce bag artist about it and say "What the hell does it matter if I am an artist or not EVERYONE AND ANYONE CAN SUPPORT FUNDING FOR THE ARTS RAAAAAR"

but that would be odd.

[Back]

When you meet the president and exclaim something like that in front of everyone I think you kinda put yourself out there for that kind of question from anyone really.

If someone asked if you were straight would you be offended? You of course don't have to answer and say "Thats personal".

[crb]

Personally, I'm with the manners, but for those of you who insist otherwise. Please visit your local grocery store and approach 10 random people, they have to be random. Say, just approach anyone wearing a red shirt. Ask them "Are you gay?" Please film this encounter as well. Just for shits and giggles switch to "Are you transgendered?" for those in the blue shirts. And see if you get any different sort of response, and yes, then to people in green, ask "Are you straight?"

It isn't, as Keller oddly said, about your insecurity as the question asker, you're not asking someone out on a date. It is about putting other people on the spot and maybe THEY'RE insecure, I mean, right, people sometimes get insecure about sexuality right? Thats totally a thing. And you're walking up to these people putting them on the spot. That isn't a polite way to begin a conversation.

This once again proves some people will support anything as long as it comes out of our mascot in chief's mouth.

[Taernath]

Personally, I'm with the manners, but for those of you who insist otherwise. Please visit your local grocery store and approach 10 random people, they have to be random.

Except in this case, that's not what happened. He didn't just walk up to somebody and ask them off the cuff if they were gay.

[Kembal]

The cashier did start the conversation. The president didn't ask it out of left field.

I'm going to say that a person that says "Equal rights for gay people" to the President is highly unlikely to be insecure about their orientation.

This is more making up an issue where there isn't one.

[Tgo01]

Although... Isn't this the same restaurant Obama cut in line at? And that one magazine declared Obama the first gay president...and the cashier is gay.. Ah ha! No wonder the cashier let Obama cut, the gays are in cahoots with one another!

[Jarvan]

All he said was "equal rights for gay people"... so you totally ignored my second point...

Again... I don't care that it happened... I just find it odd that the Presidents first thought, idea, question... would be who the guy likes fucking. Just seems odd and immeasurably to personal of a question to ask a complete STRANGER.

He could have simply said.. "I fully agree with you and we're working to ensure that everyone is treated fairly" or something similar.... what does the guys sexual orientation have to do with the idea he was expressing?

Is it good manners to ambush someone with a statement/question like that?

[waywardgs]

Although... Isn't this the same restaurant Obama cut in line at? And that one magazine declared Obama the first gay president...and the cashier is gay.. Ah ha! No wonder the cashier let Obama cut, the gays are in cahoots with one another!

Well... Yeah...

[Jarvan]

Personally, I'm with the manners, but for those of you who insist otherwise. Please visit your local grocery store and approach 10 random people, they have to be random. Say, just approach anyone wearing a red shirt. Ask them "Are you gay?" Please film this encounter as well. Just for shits and giggles switch to "Are you transgendered?" for those in the blue shirts. And see if you get any different sort of response, and yes, then to people in green, ask "Are you straight?"

It isn't, as Keller oddly said, about your insecurity as the question asker, you're not asking someone out on a date. It is about putting other people on the spot and maybe THEY'RE insecure, I mean, right, people sometimes get insecure about sexuality right? Thats totally a thing. And you're walking up to these people putting them on the spot. That isn't a polite way to begin a conversation.

This once again proves some people will support anything as long as it comes out of our mascot in chief's mouth.

Can I ask the RANDOM people that shout out "Equal rights for gays!" ?

[Stretch]

Well... Yeah...

I don't have an opinion on this thread, but your sig is great.

[Astray]

Only fags care about their rights. Know what I'm sayin' America?

[Tgo01]

Only fags care about their rights. Know what I'm sayin' America?

Da! Da! Welcome, comrade!

[Dwaar]

When you meet the president and exclaim something like that in front of everyone I think you kinda put yourself out there for that kind of question from anyone really.

If someone asked if you were straight would you be offended? You of course don't have to answer and say "Thats personal".

I actually replied to this... yes.. if some random person walked up to me and asked if I was straight... I would tell them it is none of their business.

[Warriorbird]

I actually replied to this... yes.. if some random person walked up to me and asked if I was straight... I would tell them it is none of their business.

It might be a little less out of place if you told them you supported straight rights first.

[Jarvan]

It might be a little less out of place if you told them you supported straight rights first.

Stop giving Dwaar headaches!!

[Dwaar]

The cashier did start the conversation. The president didn't ask it out of left field.

I'm going to say that a person that says "Equal rights for gay people" to the President is highly unlikely to be insecure about their orientation.

This is more making up an issue where there isn't one.

Again.. I'm not trying to make it an issue. I simply pointed out... that it seemed odd to me, in my opinion, in my view... a very odd response... "Are you gay?"... I mean really? That is your first question?

I never said the guy who yelled it was insecure about his orientation.. and he has no reason to be insecure about it..

I was trying to understand why the President would ask him that... right off the bat... as honestly 1. it shouldn't make a difference, and 2. I think the President could more properly support the idea without asking someone such a personal question. That's just me though I guess... as it seems many on here don't find it rude at all. Which actually sort of baffles me, but whatever I suppose.

[Dwaar]

It might be a little less out of place if you told them you supported straight rights first.

It shouldn't matter either way... and if someone shouted that out... more than likely they would be called a "bigot or homophobe" and made to feel horrible.

Again.. I don't get why anyone thinks asking such a personal question would be appropriate. Maybe the President could have said... oh I don't know... mmm... "I support your idea, what reforms would you like to see happen"?

That seems more Presidential, and personable, then... "Hey.... you like hairy balls and man meat?" .... because that is essential what he asked the guy.

But I'm some crazy I guess..

[Tgo01]

Obama only asked because he didn't want a gay man handling his meat.

[Dwaar]

Fine, fine... next time I see the President... I'm going to shout out... "Equal rights for black people!"... and if he doesn't respond automatically with... "Are you black?"... I'm going to be offended.

[Astray]

All jokes aside, a President resorting to a 'if you aren't gay you shouldn't be talking about it' type of attitude, which is what that response was, is pretty shameful. Then he gets a smart ass response and laughs it off. That's disheartening to see from any individual but it's particularly heavy hitting for the President to resort to it.

Oh well, we only got... two years left, right?

[Tgo01]

Fine, fine... next time I see the President... I'm going to shout out... "Equal rights for black people!"... and if he doesn't respond automatically with... "Are you black?"... I'm going to be offended.

Next time? How often do you see him? I've never seen a president :(

Darn lists!

[Jarvan]

This probably shocks backwolffbird, but frankly I don't think the President did anything wrong, rude, or even ill mannered. If anyone was ill mannered it was the cashier. But frankly, since the cashier is not only clearly an Obama supporter, but likely so far up Obama's ass that he could declare residency.. does it really fucking matter?

[Taernath]

Only fags care about their rights. Know what I'm sayin' America?

Whose rights have been violated?

[JackWhisper]

I laughed soon as I read people saying what the president should have said.

Not because they're wrong, but because they forgot to add in Uhhh.... Umm.... Hmmm... every third word. ROFL.

[caelric]

This probably shocks backwolffbird, but frankly I don't think the President did anything wrong, rude, or even ill mannered. If anyone was ill mannered it was the cashier. But frankly, since the cashier is not only clearly an Obama supporter, but likely so far up Obama's ass that he could declare residency.. does it really fucking matter?

Yeah, not a fan of Obama, either, but he did nothing wrong here. The cashier brought up the subject. Now, randomly walking around asking strangers their sexual orientation would be rude, but if someone brings up a related topic first, nothing rude at all.

Nor did Obama do anything wrong by cutting in line, as was mentioned in the article. He's the President, it's a security nightmare to have him stand in line, and he has better things to be doing anyhow than standing in line.

[Candor]

I fail to understand how this entire topic is worth talking about, let alone being newsworthy. If the President decides to wear a pink dress shirt, are we going to have a major news event over it?

Maybe I'm just more concerned about issues like the current events in the Middle East and the Federal deficit.

[Jarvan]

Yeah, not a fan of Obama, either, but he did nothing wrong here. The cashier brought up the subject. Now, randomly walking around asking strangers their sexual orientation would be rude, but if someone brings up a related topic first, nothing rude at all.

Nor did Obama do anything wrong by cutting in line, as was mentioned in the article. He's the President, it's a security nightmare to have him stand in line, and he has better things to be doing anyhow than standing in line.

I don't agree with the second part really... the longer he stands in line, the less he can fuck up our country more.

[caelric]

I don't agree with the second part really... the longer he stands in line, the less he can fuck up our country more.

That's because you disagree with his policies. Me too. Voted against him and I vehemently disagree with many of his policies. But he won the election (both the popular vote and the delegate vote) and as such is the duly elected President. So, let him do his job, which includes meeting with the public on occasion, but for damn sure doesn't include standing in line waiting for food.

Then vote him out (or his successor out) next election.

[Parkbandit]

Obama only asked because he didn't want a gay man handling his meat.

Are you so sure about that??

http://assets.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/no-slug/6e32637c28f848acaf225acfd6349548.jpg

[Parkbandit]

So, let him do his job, which includes meeting with the public on occasion, but for damn sure doesn't include standing in line waiting for food.


He was doing just that.. meeting people while he was in line. I think the entire event was fine from a Presidential standpoint.

We have so many things to criticize this President on.. standing in line or asking someone if they are gay aren't worth being distractions over.

[caelric]

No, I agree with you, it was more in response to folks complaining about him cutting to the front of the line.

[Ker_Thwap]

No, I agree with you, it was more in response to folks complaining about him cutting to the front of the line.

Line cutters are vermin. I don't care about the security nightmare, work something out in advance if you can, otherwise wait in line.

When I was in the high school band, returning from football games, we'd occasionally stop at a McDonalds with 250 kids. The director called days in advance, to make sure they could accommodate us. Usually they had two registers for us, and two registers for the normal patrons. It would be a giant dick move to just interrupt their normal flow of business otherwise.

As for Dwaar, come on, it wasn't random. Once they opened the topic/broke the ice then further discussion on the topic is a valid manners option.

[Tgo01]

he has better things to be doing anyhow than standing in line.

I dunno...standing in line or playing golf; they both seem equally unimportant.

[Allereli]

I dunno...standing in line or playing golf; they both seem equally unimportant.

clearing brush on a ranch for a FULL month every year for 8 years served us really well.

[Latrinsorm]

It shouldn't matter either way... and if someone shouted that out... more than likely they would be called a "bigot or homophobe" and made to feel horrible.

Again.. I don't get why anyone thinks asking such a personal question would be appropriate. Maybe the President could have said... oh I don't know... mmm... "I support your idea, what reforms would you like to see happen"?

That seems more Presidential, and personable, then... "Hey.... you like hairy balls and man meat?" .... because that is essential what he asked the guy.

But I'm some crazy I guess..Since you bring it up... yes, your overreaction to this story is crazy.

[Dwaar]

Since you bring it up... yes, your overreaction to this story is crazy.

So it's an overreaction because I consider asking a complete stranger if they're gay rude?

I'll be crazy then.

[Tgo01]

clearing brush on a ranch for a FULL month every year for 8 years served us really well.

Man, people still have Bush Derangement Syndrome? :/

[Latrinsorm]

So it's an overreaction because I consider asking a complete stranger if they're gay rude?

I'll be crazy then.Saying "that's a little rude, not a big deal though" as you did at first is not an overreaction. I disagree with it, but it's commensurate at least.

Going from there to "ignorant, poorly raised douchebag" and "I'm not even sure if there are any standards left." is a long journey, and one you have (justifiably) made alone.

[Dwaar]

Saying "that's a little rude, not a big deal though" as you did at first is not an overreaction. I disagree with it, but it's commensurate at least.

Going from there to "ignorant, poorly raised douchebag" and "I'm not even sure if there are any standards left." is a long journey, and one you have (justifiably) made alone.

And you are choosing to pick and choose comments to try and make a narrative.

In the grand scheme of things, is it a "big deal"... no.

Whether it's "a little rude" or "rude" is the same thing. It's my opinion asking a complete stranger their sexual orientation is rude.

As for the "ignorant, poorly raised douchebag" was my sarcasm after someone wanted to ask me if I was gay. They were being an ass in their reply, so I responded with a possible assumption that I could make based off their inquiry in a sarcastic way.

And yes... I'm not sure what standards are left... when people apparently think asking a complete stranger their sexual orientation is not considered rude. The way people are defending this topic, maybe I am out of touch, but I'm fine with that.

I consider it rude. I don't think that is overreacting. You think I am. I'm fine with that, because it's the standards of how I choose to live my life and respect others that I worry about.

[Whirlin]

Politicians always try to make social experiences seem personal to their targets (or victims).

It's navigating a minefield, where implying an individual to be homosexual when he/she is straight can still be considered insulting to a lot of people. It's always better to ask the question and obtain the information than make assumptions. Furthermore, upon determining the response, the politician can use that knowledge to make the subsequent statements and interactions appear more personalized through referencing that he/she is glad that he/she was able to help target/target's friend/family member/etc.

I think it's embarrassing that the teaparty is trying so hard to turn everything into a controversy.

[Dwaar]

Whirlin..
I don't think this is a controversy.. nor should it be one.. When I started this thread, I was simply trying to look at it from a human interaction perspective. Whether the President asked it or if it was someone else.

It seems from the responses, that people nowadays just consider it normal to ask a complete stranger... as their first question... "hey, who do you prefer men or women?". It seems I am falling behind the times.

I fully agree with you though to inquire about something is normal and helps anyone (not just politicians) interact with someone. I've given a few examples that I think a person (in this case the President) could have asked instead of "are you gay" right off the bat. I could fully see the question presenting itself if he had sat with the guy awhile to discuss what policies or reforms he would like to see in order to ensure equal rights for gay people.

Just seemed odd it was the first and only question asked, to address the issue.

[Whirlin]

Technically, the 'conversation' started with a guy yelling from behind a counter "Equal Rights for Gay People"...

It was doomed from the start.

[Ker_Thwap]

And you are choosing to pick and choose comments to try and make a narrative.

In the grand scheme of things, is it a "big deal"... no.

Whether it's "a little rude" or "rude" is the same thing. It's my opinion asking a complete stranger their sexual orientation is rude.

As for the "ignorant, poorly raised douchebag" was my sarcasm after someone wanted to ask me if I was gay. They were being an ass in their reply, so I responded with a possible assumption that I could make based off their inquiry in a sarcastic way.

And yes... I'm not sure what standards are left... when people apparently think asking a complete stranger their sexual orientation is not considered rude. The way people are defending this topic, maybe I am out of touch, but I'm fine with that.

I consider it rude. I don't think that is overreacting. You think I am. I'm fine with that, because it's the standards of how I choose to live my life and respect others that I worry about.

Here's an analogy for you: I was taught in the late 1960s that it's impolite to ask someone about their finances. If some stranger asked me how much I earned, I'd tell them none of their business. If they asked how much something cost me to buy, I'd consider their reason for asking, then answer or not. If they seemed to be fishing for hints regarding my relative wealth, I wouldn't answer. If they expressed interest because they perhaps wanted to buy something similar I'd answer.

If I blurted out "raise the minimum wage!" or "tax breaks for the middle class!" or "fuck the rich!" in front of an elected politician who just might be working on public financial matters... then I might fully expect that person to ask "Oh, what financial class do you identify with?" He now has a very good reason to inquire.

He asked "Are you gay?" If being gay is anything like being straight, then it's not all about the sexy bits. It's about the attraction, about the comfort, about how the chemicals in your brain fire off. It's a legitimate question. Maybe he wanted to know if the guy had a personal stake in the issue, or if he was just white knighting.

I don't think Miss Manners will agree with you, because you're fixating on a very narrow definition of what you believe to be polite, without considering what everyone else has told you. The details surrounding the questions do indeed matter.

[Dwaar]

Technically, the 'conversation' started with a guy yelling from behind a counter "Equal Rights for Gay People"...
It was doomed from the start.

I don't have an issue with the guy that yelled it... it's something he believes in and he expressed it.

I don't think it should have been doomed. But I asked this earlier... By asking, straight off... "are you gay"... what if the guy had said "No, I'm straight". Would that have any impact on the idea he was expressing? Does the persons sexual orientation bear any meaning towards the idea of equality for all? Would it diminish the value of what he was trying to express?

Again.. in the course of conversation, I could see the question arising if the person was gay or not. As a first response, it seems very odd to me. He simply could have said something to the effect of... "I fully agree with you and we are working hard to ensure that the laws cover and respect those who choose to love one another equally."

[Latrinsorm]

I don't have an issue with the guy that yelled it... it's something he believes in and he expressed it.

I don't think it should have been doomed. But I asked this earlier... By asking, straight off... "are you gay"... what if the guy had said "No, I'm straight". Would that have any impact on the idea he was expressing? Does the persons sexual orientation bear any meaning towards the idea of equality for all? Would it diminish the value of what he was trying to express?You phrase these as questions, but it sounds like you're assuming the President's answer would be "yes". What if the President was just asking? In the absence of evidence either way, why assume a dark motive?

[Dwaar]

You phrase these as questions, but it sounds like you're assuming the President's answer would be "yes". What if the President was just asking? In the absence of evidence either way, why assume a dark motive?

I wasn't trying to imply it would be a dark motive, or the President's answer would have been "yes". Again... I could see him asking that question in the course of a conversation. As they discussed the issue. I don't personally assume a dark motive... I just think I can agree with the statement, without needing to know a persons sexual orientation. Because the idea is good and something that we as a Nation can work on, regardless of the sexual orientation of the person supporting it.

I just think it's odd that it (such a personal question) was the very first question asked. Because 1. it's a personal issue and 2. it does nothing to show support for or against the statement made. The sexual orientation of the person that yelled "equality for gays" has no bearing on the merit of the statement. Hence I found it odd.

[Tgo01]

why assume a dark motive?

There is a 50/50 chance it would be a dark motive. He's just playing the odds.

[Dwaar]

To put it another way...

Does it matter if a person is a man... and supports equal rights for women?
Does it matter if a person is white... and supports equal rights for blacks?
Does it matter if a person is a US citizen... and supports reforming immigration laws?
Does it matter if a person is a Christian... and supports the Israeli State?
Does it matter if a person is straight... and supports same sex marriage?

Or... does it only matter that they are people... and support noble causes? Would any of the above have any bearing on their support for an issue? Or can we maybe just stop worrying about segmenting people into "groups" and respect everyone as people... and respect the causes that people work towards?

[Warriorbird]

To put it another way...

Does it matter if a person is a man... and supports equal rights for women?
Does it matter if a person is white... and supports equal rights for blacks?
Does it matter if a person is a US citizen... and supports reforming immigration laws?
Does it matter if a person is a Christian... and supports the Israeli State?
Does it matter if a person is straight... and supports same sex marriage?

Or... does it only matter that they are people... and support noble causes? Would any of the above have any bearing on their support for an issue? Or can we maybe just stop worrying about segmenting people into "groups" and respect everyone as people... and respect the causes that people work towards?

Obama does a little evil laugh every time manufactured controversies distract you from real ones.

[Back]

So basically this thread is about how much better of a person Dwaar thinks he is than President Obama.

[Jarvan]

I dunno...standing in line or playing golf; they both seem equally unimportant.

Hey, he also has a pen and a phone. And he isn't afraid to use them!

Not to mention all his photo ops.. for things that don't look bad that is.

[Dwaar]

So basically this thread is about how much better of a person Dwaar thinks he is than President Obama.

/sigh

It was a simple fucking question, because I think it's rude. Apparently you all think it isn't rude to just straight up someone a question so personal. Nothing to do with me vs. the President. It was just a question about simple fucking manners.... and it would appear that I'm somehow the crazy one for thinking it is rude.

In a roundabout way, you all have answered my question.. and the point I wanted to get some feedback on. Manners just don't seem to matter then, and hey ask whatever you want of someone. Because whether or not you stick your dick in a man or a woman, is the most important question to ask when it comes to "equal rights for gays".

[Dwaar]

Obama does a little evil laugh every time manufactured controversies distract you from real ones.

This was not a question about a "controversy". Stop trying to make it one.

It was about manners, or lack thereof.

[Warriorbird]

This was not a question about a "controversy". Stop trying to make it one.

It was about manners, or lack thereof.

Republican playbook. We should always be wise to the strategies our parties use especially when we're doing them.

[Allereli]

Man, people still have Bush Derangement Syndrome? :/

well "coincidentally" 9/11 happened very close to one of these vacations. I don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, but I believe the administration was too busy watching Bush clearing brush to pay attention. No, I'm not over 9/11.

[Tgo01]

well "coincidentally" 9/11 happened very close to one of these vacations. I don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, but I believe the administration was too busy watching Bush clearing brush to pay attention. No, I'm not over 9/11.

You don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy but you have a conspiracy theory for what happened.

The BDS is strong with this one!

[Allereli]

You don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy but you have a conspiracy theory for what happened.

the BDS is strong with this one!

conspiracy theory would make Bush implicit in what happened. I don't think he conspired with Bin Ladin. I believe his administration was on vacation in Texas when they should have been in Washington in the month preceding being more actively focused on running the country.

Obama takes a week for vacation and Republican scream bloody murder. What if Obama took a month off?

[Tgo01]

conspiracy theory would make Bush implicit in what happened. I don't think he conspired with Bin Ladin. I believe his administration was on vacation in Texas when they should have been in Washington in the month preceding being more actively focused on running the country.

You're either saying Bush was complicit in the attacks or he was incompetent and it cost thousands of Americans their lives that day. Either way that's a pretty bold statement considering you have zero to back it up with.


What if Obama took a month off?

Obama has been on vacation during his entire presidency.

[Allereli]

Obama has been on vacation during his entire presidency.

Bush was incompetent for 8 years and thousands of American (and allies), Iraqi and Afghan deaths resulted from it.

[Kembal]

You're either saying Bush was complicit in the attacks or he was incompetent and it cost thousands of Americans their lives that day. Either way that's a pretty bold statement considering you have zero to back it up with.


Uh, it has been documented that Bush was warned a month before 9/11 that Al-Qaeda was seeking to strike in the U.S. (obv. no information on targets or plan), but did nothing to step up security.

Bush was no shining example of managerial competence either.

[Tgo01]

Bush was incompetent for 8 years and thousands of American, Iraqi and Afghan deaths resulted from it.

Oh okay.

So you don't even think we should have went into Afghanistan?


Uh, it has been documented that Bush was warned a month before 9/11 that Al-Qaeda was seeking to strike in the U.S. (obv. no information on targets or plan), but did nothing to step up security.

Do you know how many thousands of threats the US government fields every year?

The hijacker pilots had already received their training and pilot licenses in the US before Bush was even in office. I guess we should blame Clinton for that lack of oversight.

[Warriorbird]

Oh okay.

So you don't even think we should have went into Afghanistan?



Do you know how many thousands of threats the US government fields every year?

The hijacker pilots had already received their training and pilot licenses in the US before Bush was even in office. I guess we should blame Clinton for that lack of oversight.

Must excuse Bush at all costs! Alert! Alert!

[Allereli]

Oh okay.

So you don't even think we should have went into Afghanistan?

Do you know how many thousands of threats the US government fields every year?

The hijacker pilots had already received their training and pilot licenses in the US before Bush was even in office. I guess we should blame Clinton for that lack of oversight.

We should blame Clinton and his administration for not taken Bin Ladin from Sudan when he was offered to us and also security issues before and after the first World Trade Center bombing.

Afghanistan is where empires go to die.

[Tgo01]

Must excuse Bush at all costs! Alert! Alert!

Must blame Bush for 9/11 attacks at all costs! Alert! Alert!

Come on, man. I don't even blame Obama for the 9/11 attacks in Libya. I just blame him for his bungling antics after the attacks.

[Tgo01]

Note that I'm not the one doing that. Your attempted defense is just to attack someone else rather than do what you should be doing.

I didn't say you were doing that. And your attempted defense at my attempted defense is something weird. What exactly are you getting at here?

In case you forgot I'm not the one who brought BDS in this thread.

[Tgo01]

Right, but without the intellectual chops to back it up. It's the rough equivalent of debating a 9-11 Truther by attacking Obama. You're that twisted up.

You speak in riddles, friend.

[Warriorbird]

You speak in riddles, friend.

Basically, rather than debate Bush's responsibility your immediate response is to attempt to blame Democrats.

[Tgo01]

Basically, rather than debate Bush's responsibility your immediate response is to attempt to blame Democrats.

That's silly.

Allereli basically accused Bush of manslaughter at best and murder at worst (with nothing to back up these statements) and instead of saying "You cray cray!" I'm supposed to, what now? Debate Bush's responsibility?

[Jarvan]

Bush was incompetent for 8 years and thousands of American (and allies), Iraqi and Afghan deaths resulted from it.


Uh, it has been documented that Bush was warned a month before 9/11 that Al-Qaeda was seeking to strike in the U.S. (obv. no information on targets or plan), but did nothing to step up security.

Bush was no shining example of managerial competence either.

And Clinton had 7 years to get Bin laden and Al-Qaeda and didn't. What's your point?

[Warriorbird]

I think blaming Bush for 9-11 is as foolish as blaming FDR for Pearl Harbor. Both certainly had warnings. That didn't mean that the nation is not prepared to deal with a great many threats at once or that we understand the exact timing and avenues and veracity of the warnings. I certainly don't fault Bush for having been on vacation. We get threats from people constantly.

Where I think Bush went wrong is in the follow through.

EDIT:

Whiney neg repper if you had any balls you'd say things in the open. You don't. Too bad.

[waywardgs]

I think blaming Bush for 9-11 is as foolish as blaming FDR for Pearl Harbor. Both certainly had warnings. That didn't mean that the nation is not prepared to deal with a great many threats at once or that we understand the exact timing and avenues and veracity of the warnings. I certainly don't fault Bush for having been on vacation. We get threats from people constantly.

Where I think Bush went wrong is in the follow through.

EDIT:

Whiney neg repper if you had any balls you'd say things in the open. You don't. Too bad.

Was it about farts or poop? Cause that guy's been everywhere lately.

[Warriorbird]

Was it about farts or poop? Cause that guy's been everywhere lately.

Those are just boring and I suspect a campaign to prop up auction folder rep. People who are afraid to actually debate politics get me pulling their card though.

[Parkbandit]

Bush was no shining example of managerial competence either.

He was a far better manager/leader than Obama is... but that's not quite setting the goal that high.

[Parkbandit]

I think blaming Bush for 9-11 is as foolish as blaming FDR for Pearl Harbor. Both certainly had warnings. That didn't mean that the nation is not prepared to deal with a great many threats at once or that we understand the exact timing and avenues and veracity of the warnings. I certainly don't fault Bush for having been on vacation. We get threats from people constantly.

Where I think Bush went wrong is in the follow through.


I don't disagree with any of that. Like I never took exception with Obama for the 9-11-12 attack in Benghazi, I just didn't appreciate the sloppy cover up immediately following it.

[Warriorbird]

I don't disagree with any of that. Like I never took exception with Obama for the 9-11-12 attack in Benghazi, I just didn't appreciate the sloppy cover up immediately following it.

A far more valid complaint than most that've been out over it.

[Latrinsorm]

I don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, but...This is one of those sentences that just never ends well.
Must excuse Bush at all costs! Alert! Alert!In President Bush's defense, he was unaware of my A+ #1 crime stopping stratagem (universal surveillance). What's Obummer's excuse?

[TheEschaton]

I don't have an issue with the guy that yelled it... it's something he believes in and he expressed it.

I don't think it should have been doomed. But I asked this earlier... By asking, straight off... "are you gay"... what if the guy had said "No, I'm straight". Would that have any impact on the idea he was expressing? Does the persons sexual orientation bear any meaning towards the idea of equality for all? Would it diminish the value of what he was trying to express?

Again.. in the course of conversation, I could see the question arising if the person was gay or not. As a first response, it seems very odd to me. He simply could have said something to the effect of... "I fully agree with you and we are working hard to ensure that the laws cover and respect those who choose to love one another equally."

It certainly changes how you respond to him, if you know what his perspective is. Everyone is colored by their perspective, to not take that into account is to be a bad leader in terms of relating to another human being. Sexual orientation is part of our identity, and isn't inherently shameful, but what it is is something that can be hard to ascertain by looking at a person. Only people who discriminate against gay people would be so naive to think there's a way to identify gay-ness visually, by their flamey-ness or something. I could say "Equality for brown people!" and someone can look at me, see I'm clearly brown, and relate to me on that issue. If I said "Equality for gay people!" you would look at me, not know if I'm straight or a big gay burly hairy bear, and be uncertain how to answer, even though the overall gist of the message ("I agree") will be the same. And yes, in the Civil Rights movement, how you addressed a black man fighting for Civil Rights was different than how you addressed a white man. To a white man, the movement was a bit more abstract, a rational analysis of the inequality that existed, and a righteous indignation that society could be so ignorant. A black man in the movement had all of that, but he also had water hoses and dogs turned on him, he had little girls in churches burned to death because they were the same color as him, they had burning crosses and white hoods to contend with. Why do you think there were very few white people in Malcolm X's movement? Because X's movement was an angry response to a personal experience that white people hadn't experienced. Whereas MLK's experience was based on a common, shared sense of Christian justice and idealism.



INB4 all the "I can tell you're gay by looking at you" comments.

[Warriorbird]

In President Bush's defense, he was unaware of my A+ #1 crime stopping stratagem (universal surveillance). What's Obummer's excuse?

He's working on making your dreams come true. Palantir has now successfully been implemented in an American city. We're all fucking doomed. Authority! Authority!

The best two Presidents for your goals you have ever voted for.

[Dwaar]

It certainly changes how you respond to him, if you know what his perspective is. Everyone is colored by their perspective, to not take that into account is to be a bad leader in terms of relating to another human being. Sexual orientation is part of our identity, and isn't inherently shameful, but what it is is something that can be hard to ascertain by looking at a person. Only people who discriminate against gay people would be so naive to think there's a way to identify gay-ness visually, by their flamey-ness or something. I could say "Equality for brown people!" and someone can look at me, see I'm clearly brown, and relate to me on that issue. If I said "Equality for gay people!" you would look at me, not know if I'm straight or a big gay burly hairy bear, and be uncertain how to answer, even though the overall gist of the message ("I agree") will be the same. And yes, in the Civil Rights movement, how you addressed a black man fighting for Civil Rights was different than how you addressed a white man. To a white man, the movement was a bit more abstract, a rational analysis of the inequality that existed, and a righteous indignation that society could be so ignorant. A black man in the movement had all of that, but he also had water hoses and dogs turned on him, he had little girls in churches burned to death because they were the same color as him, they had burning crosses and white hoods to contend with. Why do you think there were very few white people in Malcolm X's movement? Because X's movement was an angry response to a personal experience that white people hadn't experienced. Whereas MLK's experience was based on a common, shared sense of Christian justice and idealism.

INB4 all the "I can tell you're gay by looking at you" comments.

Excellent points and well stated. I understand what you are saying, and do agree with the majority of it. I do wish more of us looked at each other as people, and listened to their ideas, and regardless of their background... as long as they are being sincere in their beliefs... work from that framework. Will that ever happen, probably not. But I can hope.

To discuss the points, validity, and experiences of a person that, as an example, supports gay rights... is perfectly valid. Through conversation and getting to know a person before asking them such a personal question in my opinion, would be a better way to handle it.

This next part, is to try to illustrate my point... from your statements I take it you are African-American, black, Hispanic, or? Now if you were out and said "equality for brown people"... am I to assume that as I look at you, and recognize you are a person of color, that your experiences are the same as MLK's or Malcolm X? Should I assume you grew up being treated as they were? Whether it was Malcolm X's "angry response" or MLK's "sense of idealism"? Or maybe you didn't experience any of that in your own personal life, but recognizing the historical actions of many against people of color... you were there to support "equality for brown people"?

Or should I just say when I hear "equality for brown people" yelled by someone... "so you were beaten by the cops" or some such thing? I might ask that after speaking with you more and hearing your experiences, but not as my first and only question to you. Would that show any support for the idea you are trying to express? Or just seem rude to assume that you, and all people of color, are beaten by cops?

Hence, "equality for gays"... as I have said in this thread over and over... I would not think to ask a person if they were gay as my first question. As their sexuality is not the only qualifier for supporting the ideal they are expressing.

Thank you again for the insight and viewpoint. Much appreciated.

[Kembal]

He was a far better manager/leader than Obama is... but that's not quite setting the goal that high.

Going to disagree with you there. Invading Iraq for no reason whatsoever immediately knocks him lower.

[Atlanteax]

Going to disagree with you there. Invading Iraq for no reason whatsoever immediately knocks him lower.

The reason was to Westernize the Middle East, which is underway in Iraq despite the recent developments involving the ISIS.

[Warriorbird]

The reason was to Westernize the Middle East, which is underway in Iraq despite the recent developments involving the ISIS.

Vietnam 2

[Parkbandit]

Everyone is colored by their perspective,

Sounds racist.




INB4 all the "I can tell you're gay by looking at you" comments.

I've never actually looked at you, but I know you are gay. Lack of girlfriend, obsessive compulsion for tabards and transmogs in Wow, etc...

[Latrinsorm]

He's working on making your dreams come true. Palantir has now successfully been implemented in an American city. We're all fucking doomed. Authority! Authority!

The best two Presidents for your goals you have ever voted for.I only regret that I couldn't vote for FDR.

[Back]

/sigh

It was a simple fucking question, because I think it's rude. Apparently you all think it isn't rude to just straight up someone a question so personal. Nothing to do with me vs. the President. It was just a question about simple fucking manners.... and it would appear that I'm somehow the crazy one for thinking it is rude.

In a roundabout way, you all have answered my question.. and the point I wanted to get some feedback on. Manners just don't seem to matter then, and hey ask whatever you want of someone. Because whether or not you stick your dick in a man or a woman, is the most important question to ask when it comes to "equal rights for gays".

All I am getting from this is you think your shit doesn't stink. You blast the president for asking what you think is an ill-mannered question then turn around in one of your very next posts and haul off on someone calling them an ignorant poorly raised douchebag, which insults not only the target but that target's parents, for asking you two simple straight forward questions.

You're a complete joke.

[ClydeR]

well "coincidentally" 9/11 happened very close to one of these vacations. I don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, but I believe the administration was too busy watching Bush clearing brush to pay attention. No, I'm not over 9/11.


Of course it was a conspiracy. At least 19 hijackers secretly planned in advance to carry out an unlawful activity. That's the definition of conspiracy.

But perhaps you mean a conspiracy in which President Bush, Vice President Cheney or other US officials were involved.

[Parkbandit]

well "coincidentally" 9/11 happened very close to one of these vacations. I don't believe 9/11 was a conspiracy, but I believe the administration was too busy watching Bush clearing brush to pay attention. No, I'm not over 9/11.

Holy shit... There really are people out there like this?

Amazingly ignorant.

[waywardgs]

Holy shit... There really are people out there like this?

Amazingly ignorant.

Like truthers and climate change deniers. Crazy, right?!

[Dwaar]

All I am getting from this is you think your shit doesn't stink. You blast the president for asking what you think is an ill-mannered question then turn around in one of your very next posts and haul off on someone calling them an ignorant poorly raised douchebag, which insults not only the target but that target's parents, for asking you two simple straight forward questions.

You're a complete joke.

Back.. it's called sarcasm after someone chose to be an idiot, and ask me "are you gay"... just to be an ass. I also asked it in a rhetorical sense, as it is one opinion that could have been inferred from his post. So it was simply an observation, of one perception that people could have of him.

It would be like me inferring... from all of your posts... that you are gay. Are you gay? Are you hetero? Are you transgender? Do you like animals? Do you like being beaten with whips when you have sex?

Hope you don't consider those rude... I mean, from what people in this thread are saying, you should be cool with answering them all. I mean I should know who I'm talking to right? Your answers will inform me of the way I should interact with you right?

Bunch of horseshit.

I do plenty of fucked up things... but if you look at the direction some wanted to take this argument... well I don't think people have the right to be an ass, and not get replied to in kind. Additionally, I started this post with a simple question to see who would consider it rude to ask someone... that you have never spoken to.... that you do not know at all... that you have not even had a five minute conversation with.... "are you gay?".

[Warriorbird]

I only regret that I couldn't vote for FDR.

100% employment and the prelude to one of the greatest periods of economic growth in history. Definitely a win for you lot.

[Back]

Back.. it's called sarcasm after someone chose to be an idiot, and ask me "are you gay"... just to be an ass. I also asked it in a rhetorical sense, as it is one opinion that could have been inferred from his post. So it was simply an observation, of one perception that people could have of him.

It would be like me inferring... from all of your posts... that you are gay. Are you gay? Are you hetero? Are you transgender? Do you like animals? Do you like being beaten with whips when you have sex?

Hope you don't consider those rude... I mean, from what people in this thread are saying, you should be cool with answering them all. I mean I should know who I'm talking to right? Your answers will inform me of the way I should interact with you right?

Bunch of horseshit.

I do plenty of fucked up things... but if you look at the direction some wanted to take this argument... well I don't think people have the right to be an ass, and not get replied to in kind. Additionally, I started this post with a simple question to see who would consider it rude to ask someone... that you have never spoken to.... that you do not know at all... that you have not even had a five minute conversation with.... "are you gay?".

I've been asked if I was gay more than once in my life. It has given me pause, I will admit, but after that pause I have been comfortable with my answer. In retrospect I have understood why the people who have asked me that question asked it in the first place considering the conversations that we had been having beforehand.

I'm not offended by any of those questions you propose to ask because I am comfortable with all of my answers to those questions. I'll give you credit for being offended for the guy Obama asked if he was gay but really thats up to the guy he asked not you.

What appears to me to be the majority of posters in this thread are saying is that it's no big deal considering the circumstances. I would go so far as to say Obama was gracious in that instant rather than blithe, rude, or otherwise ill-mannered.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but when I see you here being hypocritical, I have to say something.

[Parkbandit]

Like truthers and climate change deniers. Crazy, right?!

Name one person who is a climate change denier.

[Parkbandit]

I've been asked if I was gay more than once in my life.

No one is the least bit shocked by this.

[Back]

No one is the least bit shocked by this.

Yeah, seems I'm so attractive I've been hit on by both sexes. :pirate:

[Tenlaar]

Additionally, I started this post with a simple question to see who would consider it rude to ask someone... that you have never spoken to.... that you do not know at all... that you have not even had a five minute conversation with.... "are you gay?".

You continue to talk about it as if Obama walked up to the guy at the counter and said "Hey, I need two barbecues, and are you gay?" It did not happen like that. If he had said "Justice in South Africa!" would you consider it rude for Obama to ask if he has some connection to South Africa? If he had said "Equality for all religions!" would you consider it rude for Obama to ask what religion he is? You don't get to open a door and then be upset if somebody steps through it.

I get the impression that your confusion over this stems from a feeling that a person's sexuality is something that should be hidden away. Almost as if there should be some level of shame attached to it, like somebody asking about it wants you to admit you've done something wrong.

[Parkbandit]

Yeah, seems I'm so attractive I've been hit on by both sexes. :pirate:

That must be it.

:jerkit:

[Johnny Five]

Yeah, seems I'm so attractive I've been hit on by both sexes. :pirate:

http://fashaddix.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/really-ugly-face.jpg

[Dwaar]

Yeah, seems I'm so attractive I've been hit on by both sexes. :pirate:

HAHA.. excellent reply.

[Dwaar]

You continue to talk about it as if Obama walked up to the guy at the counter and said "Hey, I need two barbecues, and are you gay?" It did not happen like that. If he had said "Justice in South Africa!" would you consider it rude for Obama to ask if he has some connection to South Africa? If he had said "Equality for all religions!" would you consider it rude for Obama to ask what religion he is? You don't get to open a door and then be upset if somebody steps through it.

I get the impression that your confusion over this stems from a feeling that a person's sexuality is something that should be hidden away. Almost as if there should be some level of shame attached to it, like somebody asking about it wants you to admit you've done something wrong.

Excellent points Tenlaar. I do understand the guy yelling it did initiate the idea. As I've said that would not be my first response, as I consider it rude to ask a complete stranger. It also has no bearing on the idea the guy was trying to express, as his belief is a good one.

I don't think a persons sexuality should be hidden away. I'm fine with whatever people wish to do in regards to their sexuality. But again... as a first question... I just think its rude. In the course of conversation, sure I can easily see that question being asked though. Semantics I suppose.

Definitely been interesting to see how people view such a simple topic though. Appreciate all of the replies.