U.S. Dead Last in Health Care

[ClydeR]

A report released Monday by a respected think tank ranks the United States dead last in the quality of its health-care system when compared with 10 other western, industrialized nations, the same spot it occupied in four previous studies by the same organization. Not only did the U.S. fail to move up between 2004 and 2014 — as other nations did with concerted effort and significant reforms — it also has maintained this dubious distinction while spending far more per capita ($8,508) on health care than Norway ($5,669), which has the second most expensive system.

“Although the U.S. spends more on health care than any other country and has the highest proportion of specialist physicians, survey findings indicate that from the patients’ perspective, and based on outcome indicators, the performance of American health care is severely lacking,” the Commonwealth Fund, a New York-based foundation that promotes improved health care, concluded in its extensive analysis. The charts in this post are from the report.

The data for the 2014 report was collected before the Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare) went into full effect, so that reform may eventually boost the U.S. out of last place by providing health insurance to some of the 50 million people who lacked it. But, according to the study, the problems of our health-care system remain so pervasive that it will take more than better access and equity to resolve them.

More... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2014/06/16/once-again-u-s-has-most-expensive-least-effective-health-care-system-in-survey/)

Does this article misuse the phrase "health care"? Shouldn't it be "healthcare" instead? Discuss amongst yourselves.

[Tgo01]

Almost 1 trillion dollars is spent between medicare, medicaid, VA healthcare spending and prison healthcare spending.

Total US healthcare spending is not quite 3 trillion dollars.

That means the government accounts for about one third of all healthcare spending (not even including government employees.)

What can we draw from all of this? The government is the problem! Instead of just shoveling money at these hospitals and doctors tell them to find ways to cut costs. Same goes with college spending. Same goes for everything else you throw money at.

But we can't do that because someone is making money off of all of this; as long as the middle class is happy with paying for everything this will continue to go on.

[Gelston]

Well, I don't care where the dead are in the health care received.

[Androidpk]

Almost 1 trillion dollars is spend between medicare, medicaid, VA healthcare spending and prison healthcare spending.

Total US healthcare spending is not quite 3 trillion dollars.

That means the government accounts for about one third of all healthcare spending (not even including government employees.)

What can we draw from all of this? The government is the problem! Instead of just shoveling money at these hospitals and doctors tell them to find ways to cut costs. Same goes with college spending. Same goes for everything else you throw money at.

But we can't do that because someone is making money off of all of this; as long as the middle class is happy with paying for everything this will continue to go on.

I watched an interesting video last week (I'll look for it later) that said a person could get a hip replacement in the US or they could fly to Spain, get the hip replacement, rent an apartment in a nice city and live there for two years while learning Spanish.. for the same cost as the procedure here in the states.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqLdFFKvhH4

[Tgo01]

I watched an interesting video last week (I'll look for it later) that said a person could get a hip replacement in the US or they could fly to Spain, get the hip replacement, rent an apartment in a nice city and live there for two years while learning Spanish.. for the same cost as the procedure here in the states.

I was with you up until the 2 year rent thing, I think that's a bit of hyperbole.

I thought it was going to say 2 months and I was thinking "Yeah, I can see that."

[Tgo01]

I was with you up until the 2 year rent thing, I think that's a bit of hyperbole.

I thought it was going to say 2 months and I was thinking "Yeah, I can see that."

After watching the video I think he's just referring to the rent paid on an apartment so...okay yeah I can see that. I thought he meant all expenses paid for 2 years and I was thinking eh...everyone should just move to Spain then :p

[Androidpk]

And a second hip replacement, I forgot that one.

[Androidpk]

After watching the video I think he's just referring to the rent paid on an apartment so...okay yeah I can see that. I thought he meant all expenses paid for 2 years and I was thinking eh...everyone should just move to Spain then :p

Do you think it's a complete coincidence that so many Spanish people live in Spain?

[Tgo01]

Do you think it's a complete coincidence that so many Spanish people live in Spain?

Mind = blown

[Jarvan]

I watched an interesting video last week (I'll look for it later) that said a person could get a hip replacement in the US or they could fly to Spain, get the hip replacement, rent an apartment in a nice city and live there for two years while learning Spanish.. for the same cost as the procedure here in the states.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqLdFFKvhH4

Well.. according o the info I can find. The average salary of a Physician in Spain is 45,288$ per year. (Socialized medicine for you)

Average salary in the US.. 183,664$.

So.. If you can find a Dr in the US to work for 1/4th the normal pay.. maybe you can get that hip replacement for nearly the same amount.

Yes, there are a lot of things involved with it.. its not just straight up salary comparison.. BUT.. seriously.. how many doctors do you know that will take a 60-75% cut in salary for "The good of the nation"?

Hell, how many people PERIOD, will take a 60-75% cut in salary? Notice Spain does also have some private insurance if you want to go that route.. 10% of them do (Likely the wealthy).

It's just not realistic comparing a socialized medicine country with a (Semi) free market one. On the (not so bright side) it's likely in 20 years or so liberals will push our healthcare to single payer socialized medicine... and frankly we will see the collapse of our healthcare system.

Some interesting info comparing medicare to regular office visits...

http://www.debt.org/medical/doctor-visit-costs/


"For example, in 2011 in America, the average charge for an office visit for an established patient, level 3, requiring approximately 15 minutes with a doctor, was $104. The average total paid was $69."

Best I could find for Medicare..

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/stories/2012/october/24/doctor-medicaid-pay-raise.aspx


"Rebecca O'Hara, a vice president of the Florida Medical Association, said doctors may be dismayed by the two-year limit. In Florida, she estimated the fee increase means a doctor would get paid $65 for a basic office visit rather than $32, but she added doctors fear having the higher fees revert back in 2015."


Notice the Medicaid pricing is WAY different then even Medicare.. the national average is 61% of the medicare rate. (BTW.. Dems want to SLASH the medicare rates to make medicare more solvent, Republicans have a similarly stupid plan) 61%. Just THINK of how HAPPY those Dr's must be that Obama added like what.. 6 million more people to medicaid? YAY!

[waywardgs]

Almost 1 trillion dollars is spent between medicare, medicaid, VA healthcare spending and prison healthcare spending.

Total US healthcare spending is not quite 3 trillion dollars.

That means the government accounts for about one third of all healthcare spending (not even including government employees.)

What can we draw from all of this? The government is the problem! Instead of just shoveling money at these hospitals and doctors tell them to find ways to cut costs. Same goes with college spending. Same goes for everything else you throw money at.

But we can't do that because someone is making money off of all of this; as long as the middle class is happy with paying for everything this will continue to go on.

Lol middle class. Is that still a thing?

[Dwaar]

Lol middle class. Is that still a thing?

I'm sure they have something like this already, but a wide scale thing might work.

People who go through medical school... can choose to sign a 5 year contract, at a base pay of, lets say $40k (make up a number) a year, with COLA for whatever city they are in, based off of the military pay chart?

They would work in low income, congested, relief shelters/clinics, for Medicare/Medicaid/low income patients. If they fulfill that 5 year obligation, then their student loans will all be repaid by the Government, and they are free to do whatever they want after.

Might be a nice incentive to increase the number of doctors. Of course the numbers/years would need to be worked out, but just a general idea.

[Jarvan]

I'm sure they have something like this already, but a wide scale thing might work.

People who go through medical school... can choose to sign a 5 year contract, at a base pay of, lets say $40k (make up a number) a year, with COLA for whatever city they are in, based off of the military pay chart?

They would work in low income, congested, relief shelters/clinics, for Medicare/Medicaid/low income patients. If they fulfill that 5 year obligation, then their student loans will all be repaid by the Government, and they are free to do whatever they want after.

Might be a nice incentive to increase the number of doctors. Of course the numbers/years would need to be worked out, but just a general idea.

Well.. with socialized medicine, the number of years = till retirement.

[TheEschaton]

survey findings indicate that from the patients’ perspective, and based on outcome indicators,

I'm always suspicious of studies based on the perspective on consumers, even if it is only part of the measurement, rather than actual qualitative care per cost. Even when said study agrees with what I believe. And what are the outcome indicators they're looking at anyways?

I don't think it can be argued that we qualitatively have the best *possible* health care in the world, but that economically, it is unfeasible to get that really high quality coverage for the average person.

As for Jarvan's post, I think it would be better if our doctors cared more about their patients and the actual healing of people, and/or the extreme technical expertise required to be a doctor, than how much money they get paid. Some of my friends who were in med school during the whole health care debate were livid at the idea of doctors making less than 100k a year like socialized medicine countries, suggesting you would never get "the best of the best" to go into medicine. Yet you can't really point to severe deficiencies in the quality of doctors in these socialized countries. Hell, Cuba produces damn good doctors, and they're fucking Communist.

Of course, that's all tied into the cost of higher education in this country. Doctors expect to be paid because they bury themselves in debt just to become doctors. You can't switch to a socialized system of renumeration if you're still requiring them to shell out 60-80 grand a year for 4 years of medical school. Plus the insane insurance premiums (see, conservatives, I don't like frivolous medical lawsuits either. ;) ).

/firstpolticalpostinmonths

[Androidpk]

Rand Paul has done plenty of pro bono eye surgeries for more income people and he isn't the only doctor to do so.

[TheEschaton]

....okay?

[Androidpk]

Just saying not every doctor is only concerned about making money.