Assisted Suicide - For or Against?

[Dwaar]

Because other threads have devolved into a multitude of thoughts, figured I would start a couple that peaked my interest. Feel free to throw your thoughts in for or against!

[Warriorbird]

I don't see much reason why not to be in favor of it.

[Tgo01]

I think assisted suicide for terminally ill people should be a legal option.

Of course there would have to be some serious investigation type stuff going on before doing so; competency test, doctor's opinions, blah blah blah.

[Dwaar]

This is going to be one short thread if we all agree it should be allowed! Thanks for your responses, hopefully more put in their thoughts.

[Androidpk]

As long as it involves a consenting adult I have no problem with making it legal. Because 2Br02B.

[Tenlaar]

I think assisted suicide for terminally ill people should be a legal option.

Just the terminally ill? Don't be so healthist.

Obviously the decision to be alive or not should rest with the individual and nobody else, ever under any circumstances should get a vote.

[Tgo01]

Just the terminally ill? Don't be so healthist.

Obviously the decision to be alive or not should rest with the individual and nobody else, ever under any circumstances should get a vote.

Suicide is not something that people normally want. In the case of the terminally ill it might make more sense to have these thoughts; you're most likely in pain, you're most likely relying on drugs and machines just to make it through the day, you're going to die soon.

In the case of a healthy individual suicidal thoughts are not normal. They have some mental issues going on and instead of saying "Alright, where do you want the bullet?" I think we should instead be trying to help them with their mental issues to move them away from suicidal thoughts.

[Tenlaar]

So you're saying that people should not be able to decide for themselves if they stay alive or not.

[Tgo01]

So you're saying that people should not be able to decide for themselves if they stay alive or not.

I'm saying such thoughts are not normal so the person most likely has some mental issues going on and if someone is not in their right state of mind I don't think they should be making important decisions and I think wanting to kill yourself is about as big of a decision as you could possibly make.

[Dwaar]

I'm saying such thoughts are not normal so the person most likely has some mental issues going on and if someone is not in their right state of mind I don't think they should be making important decisions and I think wanting to kill yourself is about as big of a decision as you could possibly make.

Man I could so go there with how this argument was made against the merits of gay marriage. Of course that would cause outrage, because I "just don't understand".

This is why I made this thread though, to see what people think is "normal", or why one thing should be accepted when others are not.

[Latrinsorm]

Against. Medically induced comas aren't 100% reversible, but I am confident the % is much higher than medically induced death.

[Androidpk]

Against. Medically induced comas aren't 100% reversible, but I am confident the % is much higher than medically induced death.

What are your thoughts on cryonics then?

[Tisket]

What are your thoughts on cryonics then?

Not enough beta testers.

[Latrinsorm]

What are your thoughts on cryonics then?I do not have any.

[Androidpk]

Not enough beta testers.

There are sign ups!?

[Tenlaar]

I'm saying such thoughts are not normal

The WHO says that somebody commits suicide roughly every 40 seconds. Almost a million people every year. Who are you to say that all of those people are mentally ill and should have their sovereignty over their own lives revoked because you know what thoughts are "normal?"

[Tgo01]

Who are you to say that all of those people are mentally ill and should have their sovereignty over their own lives revoked because you know what thoughts are "normal?"

I'm willing to listen to dissenting arguments. Why would a normal, healthy (mentally and physically) person want to commit suicide?

[Warriorbird]

Further proof that Latrin and Tgo01 are the same person in this thread.

[Tgo01]

Further proof that Latrin and Tgo01 are the same person in this thread.

My grammar is like a million times better than Latrin's.

[Warriorbird]

My grammar is like a million times better than Latrin's.

Only he would mention something like that.

[Androidpk]

Further proof that Latrin and Tgo01 are the same person in this thread.

We've seen pictures of Latrino but Tgo has never shown pictures of himself!

[Tisket]

Wut? I've got an inbox full of Tg. Mostly waist down but still.

[Warriorbird]

We've seen pictures of Latrino but Tgo has never shown pictures of himself!

I suspect he's a somewhat metro denizen of New York with rainbow socks.

[Androidpk]

Wut? I've got an inbox full of Tg. Mostly waist down but still.

But have you seen his other head?

[Androidpk]

I suspect he's a somewhat metro denizen of New York with rainbow socks.

I see what you did there.

[Wrathbringer]

I'm willing to listen to dissenting arguments. Why would a normal, healthy (mentally and physically) person want to commit suicide?

Why would a man choose another man's anus over a vahjayjay? Does it matter?

[Methais]

I say let anyone kill themselves anytime they want, and give them the option to do it live on PPV with a chunk of the money going to their families and to cover funeral expenses.


Why would a man choose another man's anus over a vahjayjay? Does it matter?

He said normal.

[Gelston]

If someone wants to off themselves, go for it. I'd prefer it was through a doctor instead of running into a school or something to go for death by cop. I think for a healthy person there should definitely be prior counseling and before any doctor can assist I feel a judge should have to review and sign off to ensure it is indeed consensual.

[Androidpk]

I imagine assisted suicide wouldn't be covered by insurance. What's the average cost of a funeral these days?

[Tenlaar]

Why would a normal, healthy (mentally and physically) person want to commit suicide?

What, do you want me to make a list? The world is a cold, uncaring, unforgiving rock flying through space and the people on it are even worse. The rational reasons for why somebody could choose not to continue living are as numerous as examples of human atrocity and misery.

[Androidpk]

What, do you want me to make a list? The world is a cold, uncaring, unforgiving rock flying through space and the people on it are even worse. The rational reasons for why somebody could choose not to continue living are as numerous as examples of human atrocity and misery.


You made me think of this and I think he (Rust) has a point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ngimCprWGQ

[Jeril]

You made me think of this and I think he (Rust) has a point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ngimCprWGQ

That was pretty funny.

[waywardgs]

If someone wants to off themselves, go for it. I'd prefer it was through a doctor instead of running into a school or something to go for death by cop. I think for a healthy person there should definitely be prior counseling and before any doctor can assist I feel a judge should have to review and sign off to ensure it is indeed consensual.

The stoics did this. If you wanted to kill yourself, you went before a council and stated your case. Then they gave you hemlock.

[Methais]

If someone wants to off themselves, go for it. I'd prefer it was through a doctor instead of running into a school or something to go for death by cop. I think for a healthy person there should definitely be prior counseling and before any doctor can assist I feel a judge should have to review and sign off to ensure it is indeed consensual.

The joke's on you. School shooters off themselves before the cops get there or have a chance to shoot.

[Androidpk]

That was pretty funny.

You are a twisted man, Jeril :D

[Astray]

Oh God, my grandmothers last few days were agonizing. She couldn't remember who she was, who any of her family members were and in the rare instances of clarity, she begged us to make it all end.

I can see both sides of the argument rather easily but I'm completely for. If a person is suffering to an incredible extent, please give them the option to go peacefully.

[Dwaar]

Oh God, my grandmothers last few days were agonizing. She couldn't remember who she was, who any of her family members were and in the rare instances of clarity, she begged us to make it all end.
I can see both sides of the argument rather easily but I'm completely for. If a person is suffering to an incredible extent, please give them the option to go peacefully.

Sorry for your loss.

I understand your point completely. I had to watch my grandfather waste away from cancer, and for months he asked to be put out of his misery. Sadly the doctors did not agree to his wishes, so he eventually died in pain of natural causes. Was rough seeing such a strong man in life, reduced to what he was in the end.

[AnticorRifling]

I'm against I think...I've never been close to a situation where I felt that was a viable option so my opinion is biased by lack of experience I guess. While there is life there should always be a chance, if it is a pain issue or a quality of life issue is there another option that can stay the immediate pain while a solution is found? If yes then I'd go that route instead of finality.

[Androidpk]

Was rough seeing such a strong man in life, reduced to what he was in the end.

I watched as a favorite uncle of mine wasted away from ALS and that was the worst part, watching him lose himself. He was always active; skiing, hiking, playing with his daughters..

[Jeril]

You are a twisted man, Jeril :D

Was there ever any doubt?

[Androidpk]

touché

[Astray]

I'm against I think...I've never been close to a situation where I felt that was a viable option so my opinion is biased by lack of experience I guess. While there is life there should always be a chance, if it is a pain issue or a quality of life issue is there another option that can stay the immediate pain while a solution is found? If yes then I'd go that route instead of finality.

They gave my grandmother morphine but that didn't help. It knocked her out more often but she didn't sleep long before the pain came back. There are options but they really just prolong suffering. When the end is near, there's only so much you can do to hold it off but the quality of life falls drastically.

[waywardgs]

https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-0/10444351_10201894154091229_3222981872476933412_n.j pg

[Tisket]

Is it just me or does that chick have a freakishly long thumb?

[Tisket]

Freaks. They should be added to the list to be euthanized. Right along with the elderly, disabled, and sick.

[Tisket]

Also: against.

Just for the record. If anyone keeps records around here that is. Don't make it easy on the medical profession. Force them to find better end of life management for those who suffer. Return phone calls (yes, we couldn't get the doctor to return a call in a timely manner when my fucking father lay dying. Fuck that doctor in the anus with a red hot fork), develop improved strategies to manage pain. Shit like that.

[Androidpk]

Also: against.

Just for the record. If anyone keeps records around here that is. Don't make it easy on the medical profession. Force them to find better end of life management for those who suffer. Return phone calls, develop improved strategies to manage pain. Shit like that.

That's how I got my interest in medicinal mj. My uncle was prescribed meds to ease his suffering but they ended up only making him feel worse.

[Jarvan]

I am for it.

Wanting to kill yourself doesn't always have to be a mental problem either. Look at suicide bombers... well.. hmm.. ok, maybe they are mental, but to people LIKE them, they are perfectly normal.

Some people just do not like living. Funny thing is tho.. assisted suicide isn't suicide really. There is a law against suicide, but as far as I am aware, no one that succeeded in breaking the law, has ever been successfully prosecuted. So legalizing killing oneself is a bit different. Allowing someone to help you end your life because you are unable to, that is another story.

My best friends mom died recent of cancer. They had given her 3 months to live when she was diagnosed, they caught it really late, she was in so much pain near the end that even morphine did squat for her. There was numerous times where she sat there and said she wished she could just die.

[Androidpk]

What kind of cancer? Not to sound like a broken record but anyone in that type of situation NEEDS to try some kind of CBD based oil. It doesn't just help cope with cancer, it kills the tumors completely.

They used this on a baby with a massive, inoperable brain tumor with some pretty spectacular results.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqHassCMX-0

[waywardgs]

End-of-life choices should be up to the patient. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that there are quite a few people who would rather die surrounded by loved ones at home in a time and manner of their own choosing than shitting their bed in hospice care, hooked up to forty-five different tubes and machines, in extreme agony and too far gone to remember anyone's face.

[Jarvan]

What kind of cancer? Not to sound like a broken record but anyone in that type of situation NEEDS to try some kind of CBD based oil. It doesn't just help cope with cancer, it kills the tumors completely.

They used this on a baby with a massive, inoperable brain tumor with some pretty spectacular results.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqHassCMX-0

I honestly forget what my friend said it was, it's been like 5 months since she passed. All I remember is that he said it went beyond where it started, it was larger then a football.

Here is a question for you tho... and I am not knocking CBD, know nothing about it really, but does CBD regrow say.. lung tissue, kidneys, colons, prostates, etc etc? Because there is a huge difference between killing the cancer or tumor, and being able to live afterwards. My dad died from cancer, and even if they could have killed the cancer, he wouldn't have made it. Same with his mom.

You could be 76 years old with only one lung and it damaged too, a fake hip, diabetes, and chronic arthritis. Doesn't matter if the cancer is cured or not, you just may no longer want to live with all the general aches, pains, and problems. When the best you have to look forward to each day is a bowel movement that doesn't cause you intense pain...

Cancer runs in both sides of my family.. hell it runs so much it would be a multiple gold medal winner in the Olympics if it was a person. So I have LOTS to look forward to in the coming years. I will def keep an eye out on the CBD. Best thing about it as far as I can see... it has NOTHING really to do with MJ, other then where it comes from. (the bullshit where people HAVE to smoke it for their medical issues is normally just that... bullshit)

[Methais]

When the best you have to look forward to each day is a bowel movement

I'm suddenly finding myself rethinking my priorities in life.

[Androidpk]

I'm not sure about the regrow part but in the video I linked the doctor said that by 8 months not only was the tumor entirely gone but the normal structure of the brain had returned. However this was in an 8 month old so I'm not sure what would happen to someone older.

As far as CBD goes.. it is still marijuana. Cannabis is made of of many different types of cannabinoids. THC is what has the psychoactive properties and gets you high where as CBD (cannabidiol) is the kind that I would say has the most medicinal benefits and it doesn't get you high. However you really can't have one without the other. Dr. Sanjay Gupta put out a documentary recently on medical marijuana and he explains that better than I can but basically all of the different cannabinoids form an entourage and the synergy they create is why mj has such potent healing abilities. It's also why treatments such as CBD only oils aren't all that effective. Most marijuana strains are high in THC and low in CBD but there are some that are specifically grown to be the opposite, high in CBD and very low in THC. Which means patients can use it without getting high. You don't have to smoke mj for medicinal benefits, there are safer ways such as vaporizing or making edibles or oils.

One thing I would keep an eye out for is a particular strain called Charlotte's Web. It was created by taking a strain that was low in THC/high in CBD and cross bred with hemp, which has no THC at all. The company is based in Colorado at the moment but their moving that part of the organization to Uruguay. From there they can actually sell it to anybody in the US where as currently they can't sell it outside of Colorado since hemp is still illegal to grow here (except for Kentucky).

[Androidpk]

This poor girl was having 300+ grand mal seizures A WEEK.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiShwotFJR8

[Thondalar]

I believe our life is the only thing we truly own...we should be allowed to end it on our own terms.

I'm all for suicide, assisted or not.

[Latrinsorm]

I believe our life is the only thing we truly own...we should be allowed to end it on our own terms.

I'm all for suicide, assisted or not.Can you provide a receipt?

[Tgo01]

Can you provide a receipt?

I have a birth certificate.

[Thondalar]

Can you provide a receipt?

A receipt...for my life?

Notice how I said it's the only thing we truly own? I own everything else because of the laws of man...I have receipts for these items, because I purchased them from other men. A stronger man could come and take these items from me, and I would no longer own them.

A stronger man could end my life...but he would never be able to take it.

[Latrinsorm]

I have a birth certificate.Long form?
A receipt...for my life?

Notice how I said it's the only thing we truly own? I own everything else because of the laws of man...I have receipts for these items, because I purchased them from other men. A stronger man could come and take these items from me, and I would no longer own them.

A stronger man could end my life...but he would never be able to take it.It seems like he could, at least with the help of a surgeon: your heart, your liver, the strings of your eyes and the indigestible portions which the leopards reject. If you aren't speaking biologically but in terms of identity, that's even easier. Possession doesn't usually imply an inability to transfer anyway, I don't get how you're phrasing it as "truly own". I'd even say the etymology of own from owe implies that possessions are necessarily transferable.

But this is getting a bit beside the point. I asked you how you obtained this life, you have responded that no one can take it from you. Do you agree that the response does not constitute an answer?

[Androidpk]

I have a birth certificate.

But do you have a 27b stroke 6?

[Tgo01]

Long form?

No :(


But do you have a 27b stroke 6?

No :(

[Androidpk]

Now I have to watch this movie tonight.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B61_5sRoBI

[Tgo01]

Those are some long bills on those hats.

[Dwaar]

A receipt...for my life?

Notice how I said it's the only thing we truly own? I own everything else because of the laws of man...I have receipts for these items, because I purchased them from other men. A stronger man could come and take these items from me, and I would no longer own them.

A stronger man could end my life...but he would never be able to take it.

Bitch! I OWN you! Now get my money and get yo stank ass back out on that street corner!

Keeping my Pimp Hand strong!

Just playing Thond :)

[Thondalar]

I asked you how you obtained this life, you have responded that no one can take it from you. Do you agree that the response does not constitute an answer?

You asked if I had a receipt.

This is the part where we define what "life" means, I suppose. Joy.

[Gelston]

Hahaha, you don't even own your life. Depending on your religious beliefs you may own your soul. Yet another thing that sucks for atheists.

[Androidpk]

Hahaha, you don't even own your life. Depending on your religious beliefs you may own your soul. Yet another thing that sucks for atheists.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RfUj09pWfM

[Velfi]

This thread reminds me of a podcast article thing I listened to a few weeks ago about the huge discrepancy between doctors and patients regarding life-saving care such as ventilators, CPR, chemotherapy, experimental treatments, and things of that nature. Doctors as a whole are far less willing to consent to any forms of treatment other than pain management, versus the average patient who will tick these various boxes, not knowing the quality of "life" that they truly provide. The real facts alone about CPR's effectiveness is pretty startling.

http://www.radiolab.org/story/262588-bitter-end/ is the story, I apologize for the annoying structure of how it's sorta stitched together, but it's pretty fascinating I think.

[waywardgs]

Radiolab is great stuff.

[Latrinsorm]

This thread reminds me of a podcast article thing I listened to a few weeks ago about the huge discrepancy between doctors and patients regarding life-saving care such as ventilators, CPR, chemotherapy, experimental treatments, and things of that nature. Doctors as a whole are far less willing to consent to any forms of treatment other than pain management, versus the average patient who will tick these various boxes, not knowing the quality of "life" that they truly provide. The real facts alone about CPR's effectiveness is pretty startling.

http://www.radiolab.org/story/262588-bitter-end/ is the story, I apologize for the annoying structure of how it's sorta stitched together, but it's pretty fascinating I think.I wish the study itself was linked, because I have some questions. The chart is supposed to be treatment options for "irreversible brain injury without terminal illness", but why the heck would things like antibiotics and chemotherapy be suggested? Obviously the side effects aren't worth it if the brain injury is irreversible and the illness isn't terminal. Feeding tube / hydration and ventilation make more sense, but still. The link in the article only goes to a dissertation on the study in general, nothing relative to the chart and no raw data.

[Latrinsorm]

You asked if I had a receipt.

This is the part where we define what "life" means, I suppose. Joy.No need. Simply explain how you came to own it, whatever it is.

[Thondalar]

No need. Simply explain how you came to own it, whatever it is.

By virtue of the fact that I'm the only person who has ever possessed it.

[Latrinsorm]

By virtue of the fact that I'm the only person who has ever possessed it.Turtles all the way down, eh? A good try. I have not disputed that anyone else ever owned your life. Here is the situation:

50 years ago you did not own your life, because you did not yet exist
today you do own your life, which I agree to for the sake of argument

"how you came to own it" refers to the transition between those two periods. Describing the period since you've owned your life in further detail is not relevant.

[Androidpk]

"how you came to own it" refers to the transition between those two periods.

I bet it involved some motherfucker.

[Dwaar]

I bet it involved some motherfucker.

Can you ever call a gay guy a motherfucker?

I know you could a lesbian.

Semantics. Now they're a motherfucker.

[Androidpk]

Can you ever call a gay guy a motherfucker?

I know you could a lesbian.

Semantics. Now they're a motherfucker.

Sure, they can role play.

[Thondalar]

Turtles all the way down, eh? A good try. I have not disputed that anyone else ever owned your life. Here is the situation:

50 years ago you did not own your life, because you did not yet exist
today you do own your life, which I agree to for the sake of argument

"how you came to own it" refers to the transition between those two periods. Describing the period since you've owned your life in further detail is not relevant.

A King is such a powerful thing that he is such simply by being so...my life is owned by me simply because it is, and it's not possible to be owned by anyone else. How I came to own it has no bearing on the fact that I do.

[Latrinsorm]

Objection, your Terrence. Unresponsive.

[Tgo01]

Objection, your Terrence. Unresponsive.

Overruled. Try to rephrase your question, counselor.

[Latrinsorm]

Turtles all the way down, non?

[Androidpk]

Turtles all the way down, non?

False, turtles all the way up.

[Atlanteax]

Support it.