15 dollar an hour minimum wage in Seattle

[Tgo01]

Story. (http://www.wwmt.com/shared/news/features/national/stories/wwmt_-seattle-passes-ordinance-increase-minimum-wage-15hr-8170.shtml)


SEATTLE, Washington (NEWSCHANNEL 3) - Minimum wage workers in Seattle, Washington will eventually be making the highest per-hour rate in the country.

Monday night, the Seattle City Council passed an ordinance that gradually increases the minimum wage to $15 per hour.

The measure will take effect next April.

The plan includes a phase-in of the wage increase over several years, with a slower process for small business.

Going to be interesting seeing professionals and people with years of experience making 20 dollars an hour walk into a McDonald's and a kid in high school who just started the day before making 15 bucks an hour.

[waywardgs]

Story. (http://www.wwmt.com/shared/news/features/national/stories/wwmt_-seattle-passes-ordinance-increase-minimum-wage-15hr-8170.shtml)



Going to be interesting seeing professionals and people with years of experience making 20 dollars an hour walk into a McDonald's and a kid in high school who just started the day before making 15 bucks an hour.

Those tattooed hipsters will be too stoned to recognize anything's changed.

[Tisket]

Story. (http://www.wwmt.com/shared/news/features/national/stories/wwmt_-seattle-passes-ordinance-increase-minimum-wage-15hr-8170.shtml)



Going to be interesting seeing professionals and people with years of experience making 20 dollars an hour walk into a McDonald's and a kid in high school who just started the day before making 15 bucks an hour.

What professional only makes 20 bucks an hour?

[Tgo01]

What professional only makes 20 bucks an hour?

Your mom!

[waywardgs]

What professional only makes 20 bucks an hour?

Quite a few of the trade-industry types. Painters, plumbers, builders, etc.

[Tisket]

My mom made more than twenty years ago!

[cwolff]

Story. (http://www.wwmt.com/shared/news/features/national/stories/wwmt_-seattle-passes-ordinance-increase-minimum-wage-15hr-8170.shtml)



Going to be interesting seeing professionals and people with years of experience making 20 dollars an hour walk into a McDonald's and a kid in high school who just started the day before making 15 bucks an hour.

Hell, we'll see some of these professionals applying. I'm interested to see what this does for the population. Will we see more people going there to get basic jobs, a higher quality min. wage employee and how this will affect companies.

[Tisket]

Quite a few of the trade-industry types. Painters, plumbers, builders, etc.

Very few make that little. Most are union.

[Gelston]

Very few make that little. Most are union.

Most Plumbers make under $20 an hour. Yeah, the bill is higher, but they don't get most of it.

[Tisket]

I really wish you'd find me a professional painter that would work for 20 bucks an hour. Our house is due a paint job.

[Tisket]

Most Plumbers make under $20 an hour. Yeah, the bill is higher, but they don't get most of it.

That's untrue.

[Gelston]

I really wish you'd find me a professional painter that would work for 20 bucks an hour. Our house is due a paint job.

The painters themselves do. They don't set their prices and they aren't paid the full amount of the labor costs.

If you find one that owns their own business, sure they make more, but they own their business.

[waywardgs]

Very few make that little. Most are union.

Which is why they all got laid off for months or more at a time during the recession. Non -union companies were able to provide steadier work at those wage levels. Plenty of old timers working in that range these days.

[waywardgs]

I really wish you'd find me a professional painter that would work for 20 bucks an hour. Our house is due a paint job.

Maybe it's different in your area. What state?

[Tisket]

I live 20 minutes north of Seattle and you guys are wrong.

[Tisket]

Don't get me wrong. I'm opposed to the increase in the minimum wage but I have to taunt Tg when the opportunity arises.

[poloneus]

Story. (http://www.wwmt.com/shared/news/features/national/stories/wwmt_-seattle-passes-ordinance-increase-minimum-wage-15hr-8170.shtml)



Going to be interesting seeing professionals and people with years of experience making 20 dollars an hour walk into a McDonald's and a kid in high school who just started the day before making 15 bucks an hour.

Except HS kids were not included in the $15/hr minimum.

[cwolff]

I had a job auditing foreclosures as part of an OCC consent order. About 1/2 of the employees (or 200 people) were attorneys. The pay range was between 18 and 25 bucks an hour. The J.D.'s were at the higher end of that scale typically, but it was dependent on what they negotiated at time of hire. A few years ago people would work for peanuts. Now that the economy is better folks can demand more.

[Jeril]

I live 20 minutes north of Seattle and you guys are wrong.

I think that is the whole point, they don't understand what things are like where this is happening. Them moving the min wage in Seattle up to 15 bucks over several years isn't really a huge deal. It is 9 something across the state, and wages and cost of living all tend to be higher in Seattle.

[Gelston]

I live 20 minutes north of Seattle and you guys are wrong.

Also, you are all going to be destroyed by a megatsunami soon anyways, so it doesn't matter.

[Dendum]

I had a job auditing foreclosures as part of an OCC consent order. About 1/2 of the employees (or 200 people) were attorneys. The pay range was between 18 and 25 bucks an hour. The J.D.'s were at the higher end of that scale typically, but it was dependent on what they negotiated at time of hire. A few years ago people would work for peanuts. Now that the economy is better folks can demand more.

Where was the location though?
20 bucks an hour in parts of Rural Alabama will get you a nice house a new truck every 6 years and you can comfortably support some rug rats, in some coastal urban areas it will get you a duplex in an ok neighborhood.

[Tisket]

I think that is the whole point, they don't understand what things are like where this is happening. Them moving the min wage in Seattle up to 15 bucks over several years isn't really a huge deal. It is 9 something across the state, and wages and cost of living all tend to be higher in Seattle.

You live around here? I don't know why I always assume all posters are east coast.

[Tisket]

Where was the location though?
20 bucks an hour in parts of Rural Alabama will get you a nice house a new truck every 6 years and you can comfortably support some rug rats, in some coastal urban areas it will get you a duplex in an ok neighborhood.

Yeah, that's like a poverty level income here.

[Jeril]

You live around here? I don't know why I always assume all posters are east coast.

I live in the state, yes.

[Tisket]

Scared now.

[cwolff]

Where was the location though?
20 bucks an hour in parts of Rural Alabama will get you a nice house a new truck every 6 years and you can comfortably support some rug rats, in some coastal urban areas it will get you a duplex in an ok neighborhood.

Denver. It's a good wage here, not great but very livable. Rental and now housing prices are going up so it doesn't spend here as well as it did even three years ago but you can have a nice life on $40k a year around here.

[Tgo01]

Except HS kids were not included in the $15/hr minimum.

Really? Almost seems like it should be illegal to pay people different wages based on their age.

[Tgo01]

According to this site (http://www1.salary.com/WA/Seattle/Plumber-I-salary.html) the average wage of an entry level plumber in Seattle, WA is 44,454 dollars a year. Assuming a 40 hour a week job that comes out to 21.37 an hour. Granted this is the average so some plumbers make more but then again some plumbers make less.

A "level 3" plumber averages out to 27 dollars an hour.

[Dendum]

Really? Almost seems like it should be illegal to pay people different wages based on their age.
HS kids have long had different laws around them, they are more limited in the amount of work you can force them to do and the type of work you can force them to do, so yea...they don't get paid as much.

[cwolff]

It sounds like Seattle did a great job putting this together.


The proposal divided businesses into four groups. Large employers, with 500 workers or more, would need to pay $15 an hour by 2017. But if they provide health insurance, like the local outdoor retailer REI, they could have an extra year. A small business such as a dry cleaner wouldn’t have to pay $15 until 2021, but a restaurant would have to ensure that workers’ pay, including tips, totaled $15 an hour by 2019. Those distinctions would phase out by 2025, when all employers would pay the same minimum. And it would be indexed to inflation, so they’d never need to go through a painful negotiation again.Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-05-08/how-seattle-agreed-to-a-15-minimum-wage-without-a-fight)

[Tgo01]

HS kids have long had different laws around them, they are more limited in the amount of work you can force them to do and the type of work you can force them to do, so yea...they don't get paid as much.

I worked a few jobs in high school and I'm aware of special laws for kids; like number of hours they can work per week/day and certain things they can't do (like operate heavy machinery), but I was never informed of being paid less than my peers, much less was I ever paid less than my peers.

[Tisket]

According to this site (http://www1.salary.com/WA/Seattle/Plumber-I-salary.html) the average wage of an entry level plumber in Seattle, WA is 44,454 dollars a year. Assuming a 40 hour a week job that comes out to 21.37 an hour. Granted this is the average so some plumbers make more but then again some plumbers make less.

A "level 3" plumber averages out to 27 dollars an hour.

Interesting. One of my neighbors is a journeyman level plumber who makes much more but maybe he was exaggerating. He claimed he made 68k last year. Maybe he worked OT.

[cwolff]

I worked a few jobs in high school and I'm aware of special laws for kids; like number of hours they can work per week/day and certain things they can't do (like operate heavy machinery), but I was never informed of being paid less than my peers, much less was I ever paid less than my peers.

Maybe you weren't but the employer was under no obligation to pay you as much as the next guy. Here's what FSLA has on it.


The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) requires a minimum of not less than $4.25 per hour for employees under 20 years of age during their first 90 consecutive calendar days of employment with an employer. After 90 days of employment, or when the worker reaches age 20 (whichever comes first), the worker must receive the minimum wage. Employers are prohibited from taking any action to displace employees in order to hire employees at the youth minimum wage. Also prohibited are partial displacements such as reducing employees’ hours, wages, or employment benefits.

[Dendum]

I have two applicants for a job that pays 15 bucks an hour, one of them is going to not be able to use the box compactor and will not be able to work a full weeks shift,
the other is capable of doing everything and working as much as I need...

there is no way in hell I would hire the HS kid unless I could start him or her for less. When I was in HS I worked at a skeet shooting range (when someone said pull I pushed a button) and as a landscaper and I believe both of those places paid me in cash, but the rules are different for larger corporations.

[Tgo01]

Maybe you weren't but the employer was under no obligation to pay you as much as the next guy. Here's what FSLA has on it.

Yeah that's basically like a training stage. That's not permanently paying them less than minimum wage.

[Gelston]

Maybe you weren't but the employer was under no obligation to pay you as much as the next guy. Here's what FSLA has on it.

That says he is under obligation to pay him regular min wage after the first 90 days.

[Dendum]

Interesting. One of my neighbors is a journeyman level plumber who makes much more but maybe he was exaggerating. He claimed he made 68k last year. Maybe he worked OT.

My step dad was a plumber, I don't know how it works in Seattle but a lot...a hell of a lot...of his income was secondary under the table jobs.

[cwolff]

That says he is under obligation to pay him regular min wage after the first 90 days.

Yes they are obligated to pay minimum after the 90 days but there is no obligation to pay him the same as another. They can pay whatever they want with the caveat that it has to be above the legal minimum.

[Gelston]

Yes they are obligated to pay minimum after the 90 days but there is no obligation to pay him the same as another. They can pay whatever they want with the caveat that it has to be above the legal minimum.

Yeah, but they have no obligation to pay anyone anything above the minimum whether 16 or 30.

[AnticorRifling]

I really wish you'd find me a professional painter that would work for 20 bucks an hour. Our house is due a paint job.

You do know a billable rate != worker's hourly wage right?

[Tisket]

You do know a billable rate != worker's hourly wage right?

Let me fix it for you, nitpicker: "I really wish you'd find me a professional painter that would work FOR ME for 20 bucks an hour."

[cwolff]

I worked a few jobs in high school and I'm aware of special laws for kids; like number of hours they can work per week/day and certain things they can't do (like operate heavy machinery), but I was never informed of being paid less than my peers, much less was I ever paid less than my peers.


Yeah, but they have no obligation to pay anyone anything above the minimum whether 16 or 30.

No, there is no obligation. I was responding to Tg's somewhat relevant description of his experience working in high school. The point I'm making is that they don't have to pay you different but they can. Dendum highlighted some reasons why a high school kid may not get paid the same as someone with more experience.

[Gelston]

Let me fix it for you, nitpicker: "I really wish you'd find me a professional painter that would work FOR ME for 20 bucks an hour."

I imagine if you provided all the equipment and paint you could find someone.

[Johnny Five]

So McDonalds is going to be paying people 15 dollars and hour and they still can't manage to put a Fillet o' Fish together properly? They don't deserve 15 dollars an hour when you can't even do that shit right.

http://rchaybok.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/filet-o-fish-collage.jpg

[Gelston]

I wasn't aware people ordered Filet-o-Fish sandwiches.

[Tisket]

The fish sandwich is the best product on their menu.

[Wrathbringer]

So McDonalds is going to be paying people 15 dollars and hour and they still can't manage to put a Fillet o' Fish together properly? They don't deserve 15 dollars an hour when you can't even do that shit right.

http://rchaybok.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/filet-o-fish-collage.jpg

Job performance isn't important. Everyone making $15+/hr is what's important. Ask any liberal. They'll tell you.

[cwolff]

I wasn't aware people ordered Filet-o-Fish sandwiches.

They do if they're hoping for a cum topping. It's what happened to Rod Stewart and he needed his stomach pumped.

[Tisket]

cwoolf was probably one of those kids who would only eat cheese sandwiches because other foods looked weird.

[Back]

So McDonalds is going to be paying people 15 dollars and hour and they still can't manage to put a Fillet o' Fish together properly? They don't deserve 15 dollars an hour when you can't even do that shit right.

That looks like every filet-o-fish I've ever bought from McDs. Maybe your expectations are a little high for a $2 fast food sandwich?

http://media.giphy.com/media/S7qSjo6Dg5oha/giphy.gif

[Tgo01]

I have high expectations of any product I buy.

[Warriorbird]

The awesome power of the free market allows us to go better places for a good deal on quick food.

[Jarvan]

That looks like every filet-o-fish I've ever bought from McDs. Maybe your expectations are a little high for a $2 fast food sandwich?



Or maybe our expectations are a little high for someone making 15$ an hour. That's just under starting salary for a school teacher where I live. A fast food worker is equal to a school teacher? Yep, makes total sense.

[Wrathbringer]

I have high expectations of any product I buy.

Me too. Except GS.

[Tgo01]

Me too. Except GS.

Touché, salesman.

[Warriorbird]

Or maybe our expectations are a little high for someone making 15$ an hour. That's just under starting salary for a school teacher where I live. A fast food worker is equal to a school teacher? Yep, makes total sense.

Or your teachers are paid too little.

[Tisket]

Cops make less than transit workers in Seattle. Things are fucked up all over.

[Warriorbird]

Cops make less than transit workers in Seattle. Things are fucked up all over.

That's crazy. Here they make a fair bit above my teaching salary.

[Tisket]

Transit workers or cops?

[Tisket]

I just don't think a bus driver should make more than a cop or a teacher.

[Gelston]

Transit workers or cops?

Transient cops.


I just don't think a bus driver should make more than a cop or a teacher.

What if the bus driver philosophizes with people on the bus?

[Warriorbird]

Transit workers or cops?

Cops. Transit workers are paid roughly half my salary.

[Tisket]

lol @ Gelston

[Back]

Or maybe our expectations are a little high for someone making 15$ an hour. That's just under starting salary for a school teacher where I live. A fast food worker is equal to a school teacher? Yep, makes total sense.

That does not sound like Washington's problem as much as it is your state's problem. Washington is willing to pay $15 minimum wage. If teachers in your state only make $15 an hour how is it not your state at fault and Washington is?

[Gelston]

That does not sound like Washington's problem as much as it is your state's problem. Washington is willing to pay $15 minimum wage. If teachers in your state only make $15 an hour how is it not your state at fault and Washington is?

Well, except Washington isn't willing. Seattle is.

[Back]

Well, except Washington isn't willing. Seattle is.

Yep, correct. My bad. Still... I would imagine it will benefit Seattle greatly in that people will migrate towards those higher wages.

[cwolff]

Sea-Tac is leading the PNW in the min. wage increases. They've already done it and successfully defended it in court. This one has yet to be litigated.

[Johnny Five]

Yep, correct. My bad. Still... I would imagine it will benefit Seattle greatly in that people will migrate towards those higher wages.

Except the elderly or anyone else that is living on SS. Huge wage jump = skyrocketing apartment prices = granny got no place to live.

[Tisket]

That does not sound like Washington's problem as much as it is your state's problem. Washington is willing to pay $15 minimum wage. If teachers in your state only make $15 an hour how is it not your state at fault and Washington is?

Teachers make more than 15 per hour. Bus drivers significantly more. Metro drivers that is.

[Gelston]

Except the elderly or anyone else that is living on SS. Huge wage jump = skyrocketing apartment prices = granny got no place to live.

That just made me think of

Skyrockets in flight
Afternoon delight!

[Warriorbird]

Teachers make more than 15 per hour. Bus drivers significantly more. Metro drivers that is.

Cops here make 45-50, teachers 38-42, bus drivers 20-24 as a typical starting salary.

[Tisket]

I'm posting from my phone so can't research my own claims.

[Latrinsorm]

Except the elderly or anyone else that is living on SS. Huge wage jump = skyrocketing apartment prices = granny got no place to live.SS has cost of living adjustments.

[Taernath]

Consider also the cost of college tuition has increased by over 1000% over the last 30 years. It's impossible to attend college now unless you have some sort of outside grant (family, scholarship, etc).

[Buckwheet]

Scared now.

My in-laws are in Tacoma. We are out there 2-3x per year.

[Warriorbird]

I'm posting from my phone so can't research my own claims.

I believe you. It's Seattle versus a state with no real unions. (I just Seattled you. I'm evil.)

[SHAFT]

Yuck, $15 an hour. We just bumped all of our team members to $10 and that was tough to stomach. Ugh

[Elantari]

Yuck, $15 an hour. We just bumped all of our team members to $10 and that was tough to stomach. Ugh

You poor baby. On the other hand, if you can't afford to pay your employees $10/hour, your business is obviously a worthless piece of shit that manages to exist only because taxpayers are subsidizing your employee's income with food stamps and so on...

[waywardgs]

I really wish you'd find me a professional painter that would work for 20 bucks an hour. Our house is due a paint job.

Forgot to mention earlier, but I deal with a lot of this kind of thing for real estate purposes and I've had good luck with craigslist if you screen people a bit- you can find tradesmen looking for side jobs- and angie's list- look for the companies that don't have a lot of reviews but the ones they do have are positive. These are often new companies that are hungry for work and looking to build their business. Good ways to get quality work for less than you might otherwise pay.

[Rallorick]

What's interesting is that they gave small business (under 500 employees) a seven year phase in... which seems pointless because all business who use minimum wage staff have to compete for the same people. Theoretically small businesses will need to raise their game or lose their better general labor to the Wal-Mart's.

[SHAFT]

You poor baby. On the other hand, if you can't afford to pay your employees $10/hour, your business is obviously a worthless piece of shit that manages to exist only because taxpayers are subsidizing your employee's income with food stamps and so on...

Hahahaha!!!

Federal min wage is going to $9, we're giving our employees $10. You so funny though.

[Palcron]

Boston city bus drivers start somewhere in the realm of $21-25 an hour plus benefits. Private EMS companies in the state (keeping in mind that at least half of the towns in the state use private companies for their 911 service) start EMTs at around $12 an hour with no guarantee of benefits. Now, in Seattle, ever ass hole at McDonalds will make at least $15 an hour. It's a pretty fucked up world we live in.

[waywardgs]

Boston city bus drivers start somewhere in the realm of $21-25 an hour plus benefits. Private EMS companies in the state (keeping in mind that at least half of the towns in the state use private companies for their 911 service) start EMTs at around $12 an hour with no guarantee of benefits. Now, in Seattle, ever ass hole at McDonalds will make at least $15 an hour. It's a pretty fucked up world we live in.

The burger flipper who sells you the food that destroys your heart gets paid more than the trained medical professional who comes in to restart that ruined heart. MAKES SENSE RIGHT? YOLO BITCHES!!!

fucking hell.

[SHAFT]

Fast food workers should be at the bottom level of the totem pole. No offense to them, I worked fast food from ages 14-18. It requires zero skill.

[Tgo01]

Boston city bus drivers start somewhere in the realm of $21-25 an hour plus benefits. Private EMS companies in the state (keeping in mind that at least half of the towns in the state use private companies for their 911 service) start EMTs at around $12 an hour with no guarantee of benefits. Now, in Seattle, ever ass hole at McDonalds will make at least $15 an hour. It's a pretty fucked up world we live in.

To be fair I'm sure before the minimum wage kicks in every fast food restaurant will have replaced all of their cashiers with an automated register like you see at grocery stores and a similar device will be at every drive through.

Even the busiest of McDonald's will probably have 3 people cooking and 2 other employees handing out food.

Either that or people will need to take out a personal loan to buy a Big Mac.

[Elantari]

Fast food workers should be at the bottom level of the totem pole. No offense to them, I worked fast food from ages 14-18. It requires zero skill.

They should have paid you a nickel per hour.

[Back]

I think it's time we stop looking down on people who earn minimum wage. They are trying to work. They are trying to better their situations by working. This whole "I make so much an hour I am better than you" is bullshit. An honest days work should be the measure of a man, not how much they make.

[Elantari]

I think it's time we stop looking down on people who earn minimum wage. They are trying to work. They are trying to better their situations by working. This whole "I make so much an hour I am better than you" is bullshit. An honest days work should be the measure of a man, not how much they make.

But you have to make a lot of money in order to afford an expensive whore. Given that conservatives think the price their whore charges is the proper measure of their manhood, you're going to have a hard time selling this line.

P.S. Frequently, conservatives call their whore "my wife".

[Back]

But you have to make a lot of money in order to afford an expensive whore. Given that conservatives think the price their whore charges is the proper measure of their manhood, you're going to have a hard time selling this line.

P.S. Frequently, conservatives call their whore "my wife".

I don't know about all that. I've never hired a prostitute but I know people who have. I don't think it's terrible to do so.

[SHAFT]

I think it's time we stop looking down on people who earn minimum wage. They are trying to work. They are trying to better their situations by working. This whole "I make so much an hour I am better than you" is bullshit. An honest days work should be the measure of a man, not how much they make.

Anyone who wakes up every day and goes to work should be respected. I don't know anyone who looks down upon fast food workers.

The reason a fast food job is accessible is the fact it requires no skill to perform the duties required. A great percentage of the population can work a fast food job. It should be a low wage job.

[Elantari]

A great percentage of the population can work a fast food job. It should be a low wage job.

I've agreed. It should pay one nickel per hour.

[Back]

Anyone who wakes up every day and goes to work should be respected. I don't know anyone who looks down upon fast food workers.

The reason a fast food job is accessible is the fact it requires no skill to perform the duties required. A great percentage of the population can work a fast food job. It should be a low wage job.

It is only a low wage job because the company only pays that amount for that job so they can be profitable selling $2 filet-o-fish sandwiches.

I would argue with you that a minimum wage job takes no skill. Even at that pay rate they need to find competent people to fill their positions.

And I am not certain a great deal of the population can work those jobs. Skill may not even be involved. Desire to enrich oneself might possibly be the motivation.

[Dwaar]

Wonderful,
So now a person who works at McDonalds will make more money than most people that choose to serve and possibly die for their country. Yes. Them serving you your coffee in the morning and flipping your burgers is worth more apparently than the E-5 or below with 3 years military service. So I guess all the liberals won't mind if we double all base pay for all military personnel now. Oh that's right, we spend to much on our defense budget, because it's not like the military provides anything to the Nation.

http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html

Min wage: 40 hoursx15 = 600x4 = 2400.

Fucking absurd.

[Elantari]

Wonderful, So now a person who works at McDonalds will make more money than most people that choose to serve and possibly die for their country. Yes. Them serving you your coffee in the morning and flipping your burgers is worth more apparently than the E-5 or below with 3 years military service. So I guess all the liberals won't mind if we double all base pay for all military personnel now. Oh that's right, we spend to much on our defense budget, because it's not like the military provides anything to the Nation.

If it took skill to be a stupid enlistee, do you think the military would be using predatory recruitment tactics to sucker morons into signing up to die on the front lines in retarded wars?

[kutter]

If it took skill to be a stupid enlistee, do you think the military would be using predatory recruitment tactics to sucker morons into signing up to die on the front lines in retarded wars?

It is hard for me to remember at times that I spent 22 years protecting your right to be such an ignorant asshole.

[Dendum]

To be fair I'm sure before the minimum wage kicks in every fast food restaurant will have replaced all of their cashiers with an automated register like you see at grocery stores and a similar device will be at every drive through.

Even the busiest of McDonald's will probably have 3 people cooking and 2 other employees handing out food.

Either that or people will need to take out a personal loan to buy a Big Mac.

What were those really old places called where the food was in a box you put money in?
hell I can't remember
these things
http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxgrn1h6z01qd7m1so1_500.png

The future is the past.

edit: Automats.

[kutter]

What were those really old places called where the food was in a box you put money in?
hell I can't remember
these things
http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxgrn1h6z01qd7m1so1_500.png

The future is the past.

Automat

[leifastagsweed]

The cost of living in WA State, particularly Western Washington, and most specifically the Eastside and Seattle areas, has risen dramatically yet the wages have not reflected that. I have lived here for over 12 years after moving here from the Bay Area and still haven't seen it 'catch up' with wage increases. It's shocking how underpaid professionals are in this area, blue and white collar. Unfortunately, just one city ordinance isn't going to fix the problem, but it's a good place to start. This state just made history as being the first state to have it's federal funding revoked (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/24/washington-no-child-left-_n_5207245.html) for having such shitty schools. WA state needs so many fixes. I was not a fan of the MJ legalization bill since it was a police initiative, but I wish they'd pull their heads out of their asses and follow through because we cannot get that tax revenue fast enough.

[Elantari]

It is hard for me to remember at times that I spent 22 years protecting your right to be such an ignorant asshole.

Is that how they suckered you into being a good little soldier? Did they tell you you were protecting other people's rights? And you believed them? Nah. You didn't believe that bullshit (unless you're a complete retard). You signed up as a mercenary because you wanted to risk your life fighting other people's wars for your own potential future economic advantage. Don't try to glorify your selfish, murderous desires.

[Tisket]

Forgot to mention earlier, but I deal with a lot of this kind of thing for real estate purposes and I've had good luck with craigslist if you screen people a bit- you can find tradesmen looking for side jobs- and angie's list- look for the companies that don't have a lot of reviews but the ones they do have are positive. These are often new companies that are hungry for work and looking to build their business. Good ways to get quality work for less than you might otherwise pay.

We are just going to hire a company and be done with it. Just experiencing a bit of sticker shock is all.

[Tisket]

Elantari is such an angry, bitter person. I'm surprised her keyboard doesn't melt.

[Elantari]

Elantari is such an angry, bitter person. I'm surprised her keyboard doesn't melt.

Are you using "her" (in "her keyboard") because you support the use of feminine pronouns? Or are you using "her" because you've diagnosed me as a woman?

[Dendum]

Are you using "her" (in "her keyboard") because you support the use of feminine pronouns? Or are you using "her" because you've diagnosed me as a woman?

Ahh well if this was Gemstone Iv your name construction would indicate a female character

Wherein any character who has both the first and last letter of the name as a vowel, with the possible exception of O but still including Y, is female.
Note there are exceptions to this rule such as in the case where the entirety of the name references real world objects(1) that are feminine in nature, or where the consonant are arranged in such a way that a veritable vowel explosion occurs despite being end capped by non vowels, the reverse is also true in some rare cases normally a smattering of consonants from the tail end of the alphabet, like x,y, and z sandwiched between two vowels(2).

This method can not be used with as much certainty where only the end and/or beginning of the word is a vowel unless that beginning is the letter "R" such as in Rebecca and Rowmi in which case you can still assume with a 79% chance of success that the character is female in nature


1: Examples of this phenomenon are words like Tigerlily, which still ends in a y, or Buttercup, which does not end in a vowel or start in a vowel and would appear at first glance, ignoring the words content, to be masculine in nature. It is up to the user to have experience correlating gibberish words with real world counterparts in order to successfully employ this method and it may be safe at this point, for the uninitiated, to simply request of the character if they have male or female genitalia.

2: Examples of this interesting condition are seen in such names as Orxy or Yeznke, which appear to show a female construct naming convention but in fact could be used for male characters because of the tail end alphabetical symbols haphazardly thrown into the name just to confuse us.

[Tisket]

Are you using "her" (in "her keyboard") because you support the use of feminine pronouns? Or are you using "her" because you've diagnosed me as a woman?

I diagnosed you as having a pussy because you seem to have constant premenstrual syndrome. You are a girl in my mind henceforth.

[Elantari]

Ahh well if this was Gemstone Iv your name construction would indicate a female character

Wherein any character who has both the first and last letter of the name as a vowel, with the possible exception of O but still including Y, is female.
Note there are exceptions to this rule such as in the case where the entirety of the name references real world objects(1) that are feminine in nature, or where the consonant are arranged in such a way that a veritable vowel explosion occurs despite being end capped by non vowels, the reverse is also true in some rare cases normally a smattering of consonants from the tail end of the alphabet, like x,y, and z sandwiched between two vowels(2).

This method can not be used with as much certainty where only the end and/or beginning of the word is a vowel unless that beginning is the letter "R" such as in Rebecca and Rowmi in which case you can still assume with a 79% chance of success that the character is female in nature


1: Examples of this phenomenon are words like Tigerlily, which still ends in a y, or Buttercup, which does not end in a vowel or start in a vowel and would appear at first glance, ignoring the words content, to be masculine in nature. It is up to the user to have experience correlating gibberish words with real world counterparts in order to successfully employ this method and it may be safe at this point, for the uninitiated, to simply request of the character if they have male or female genitalia.

2: Examples of this interesting condition are seen in such names as Orxy or Yeznke, which appear to show a female construct naming convention but in fact could be used for male characters because of the tail end alphabetical symbols haphazardly thrown into the name just to confuse us.

Wow! You're a scientist! Props!

[Elantari]

I diagnosed you as having a pussy because you seem to have constant premenstrual syndrome. You are a girl in my mind henceforth.

Henceforth, you are a girl in my mind. By the way, that construction is much better than your abomination: "You are a girl in my mind henceforth." But who cares. Shall we call it mostly even?

[leifastagsweed]

I diagnosed you as having a pussy because you seem to have constant premenstrual syndrome. You are a girl in my mind henceforth.

Hey don't hate on the vag. It can take quite a pounding. Balls are far more delicate.

[Tisket]

Hey don't hate on the vag. It can take quite a pounding. Balls are far more delicate.

I've found that of all the insults you can heap on a male, the one they hate the most is being compared to a female.

[Elantari]

Hey don't hate on the vag. It can take quite a pounding. Balls are far more delicate.

Tisket is a woman. This makes her a woman filled with self-loathing and self-hatred. She sees herself as the member of the weaker, more pathetic sex.

[Tisket]

Tisket is a woman. This makes her a woman filled with self-loathing and self-hatred. She sees herself as the member of the weaker, more pathetic sex.

Well, you got one out of three right.

Your average is improving.

[Johnny Five]

SS has cost of living adjustments.

Yeah tell that to all the elderly living in Williston, ND dipshit. Where rent went from 300$ a month to 2500$ a month. I'm sure SS jumped all over making up the difference there.

1.5% is really going to make the difference there. The average SS payment for 2014 after the COLA is 1295$.

[Elantari]

Well, you got one out of three right. Your average is improving.

You've confessed that your best insult is to call someone a woman. But since you are a woman... Polly want a penis?

[Tisket]

I think people thought I was a male for the first two years I posted here. It didn't bother me even slightly.

[Tisket]

Since I will be calling you a cunt from now on, you are more than welcome to call me a prick.

[Johnny Five]

I think people thought I was a male for the first two years I posted here. It didn't bother me even slightly.

I was excited till I turned on the lights and you were a female :(.

[Laviticas]

You've confessed that your best insult is to call someone a woman. But since you are a woman... Polly want a penis?

Polly can have my penis.

[Latrinsorm]

Fast food workers should be at the bottom level of the totem pole. No offense to them, I worked fast food from ages 14-18. It requires zero skill.Same with the NBA. Oh look I can take four steps with the ball THAT'S A TRAVEL. And they carry it every time too! Jerry West never took any steps or dunked it, he shot the ball from half court like God and Maravich intended. They're the real champions, Jesus got hosed by the refs. If hammering a guy to a two by four isn't a flagrant foul I don't know what is.
To be fair I'm sure before the minimum wage kicks in every fast food restaurant will have replaced all of their cashiers with an automated register like you see at grocery stores and a similar device will be at every drive through.

Even the busiest of McDonald's will probably have 3 people cooking and 2 other employees handing out food.

Either that or people will need to take out a personal loan to buy a Big Mac.I predict this phenomenon will go the way of Obama's double-dip recession: an absolute certainty that after not occurring is never mentioned again by you people.
Yeah tell that to all the elderly living in Williston, ND dipshit. Where rent went from 300$ a month to 2500$ a month. I'm sure SS jumped all over making up the difference there.

1.5% is really going to make the difference there. The average SS payment for 2014 after the COLA is 1295$.Look. North Dakota is just as much a state as any other, you shouldn't call them names. I also can't find any source for minimum wage increases in Williston or North Dakota, from what I can tell they're right at the federal, so... not sure what you were going for here. Are you saying we should also have wage freezes and price controls? To be fair it did work for Nixon, but I'm just not sure it would fly today.

[Tgo01]

Latrin, when it happens are you going to admit I was correct, as I usually am?

[Elantari]

I think people thought I was a male for the first two years I posted here. It didn't bother me even slightly.


You are more than welcome to call me a prick.

You would like that, wouldn't you? There is a cure for your penis envy, you know. It's called penis transplantation surgery, and its had some success. I recommend you have it attached to your face though. There are some obvious benefits to choosing that location, one of them being that since you'd always have it in your mouth, nobody would ever have to hear you talk again.

[Latrinsorm]

"before the minimum wage kicks in every fast food restaurant will have replaced all of their cashiers with an automated register like you see at grocery stores and a similar device will be at every drive through."

2021 is the limit. Luckily for me, the world will have been annihilated by tidal waves caused by repeated Sealab explosions and I won't have to admit I'm wrong. Way to not think it through, Terry!

[Tgo01]

"before the minimum wage kicks in every fast food restaurant will have replaced all of their cashiers with an automated register like you see at grocery stores and a similar device will be at every drive through."

2021 is the limit. Luckily for me, the world will have been annihilated by tidal waves caused by repeated Sealab explosions and I won't have to admit I'm wrong. Way to not think it through, Terry!

Silly Latrin, everything is always back to normal at the beginning of each episode so it won't matter how many explosions there are.

[Latrinsorm]

Those are alternate universes, silly sally port Terry. Latrinsorm-2 rules the nation with an iron fist thanks to their foolishly implementing universal surveillance MWA HA HA HA THE FOOLS!!! Tgo01-2 is a dachshund. You don't want to know about Tgo01-10.

[Atlanteax]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/24/smallbusiness/seattle-minimum-wage-franchisees/index.html?iid=HP_LN


Matthew Hollek employs eight workers at the Subway restaurant he owns in Seattle's Ballard district.

He worries that the city's newly passed $15 minimum wage will hurt his ability to be competitive. That's because his competitors -- other small employers -- will have extra time to transition into the higher minimum wage. But because Subway is a national fast food chain, his restaurant doesn't count.

"In three years, my wages will be up by 60%, but the sandwich shop next door won't have to do it yet. I'll have to charge more, and he can charge less than me," said Hollek, who has been a franchise owner since 1997.


Seattle's city council approved a timetable earlier this month for how the $15 minimum wage would be phased in from its current wage floor of $9.32. Businesses with fewer than 500 workers get until 2021 to phase it in.

Companies with 500 or more employees must begin paying $15 in 2017. Chains like Subway, McDonald's (MCD) or Burger King (BKW) are in the latter category, even if many of their restaurants are run by small business owners.

Franchisees are up in arms over this. The International Franchise Association has sued the city of Seattle, charging that the ordinance unfairly penalizes franchisees.

The average franchisee at the association employs 11 people.

[Atlanteax]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/09/news/economy/la-hotel-minimum-wage/index.html?iid=Lead


Barack Obama wants $10.10. Seattle got $15.

Now, Los Angeles hotel workers might be outdoing them all with the country's highest minimum wage: $15.37 an hour, thanks to a new city ordinance that is expected to pass by Labor Day.

It would be a boon for Sandra Diaz, and 10,000 workers like her, who keep the hotel industry running in L.A. by cleaning rooms, doing laundry, and working the kitchens.

Life in LA is about to get *ridiculously expensive* (and it already is 'too expensive') ...

[cwolff]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/07/09/news/economy/la-hotel-minimum-wage/index.html?iid=Lead



Life in LA is about to get *ridiculously expensive* (and it already is 'too expensive') ...

I like this quote from the article:


"Every time we enact something like this, businesses say the sky is falling and it doesn't," said Roxana Tynan, executive director of the Los Angeles Alliance for a new Economy, an advocacy group.

[Androidpk]

We are definitely on the track for machines to take over thousands of jobs in the near future. Might be a good thing or it could be a really bad thing.

[Whirlin]

We are definitely on the track for machines to take over thousands of jobs in the near future. Might be a good thing or it could be a really bad thing.
You say that, but all I hear is:
"Exciting new jobs soon to be available in machine manufacturing and maintenance"

[Androidpk]

You say that, but all I hear is:
"Exciting new jobs soon to be available in machine manufacturing and maintenance"

You say that but all I hear is: Robots that build and maintain themselves.

[Parkbandit]

I like this quote from the article:

Yea.. because the executive director of the "Los Angeles Alliance for a New Economy" wouldn't bullshit us.. would she!

Personally.. I want all of California to vote for it.. I mean, $15.37 an hour is a good thing.. why wouldn't you just make it $20 or $25?

At $25 an hour, we can eliminate poverty in the nation. BOOM GONE!

I believe states can and should make these types of decisions. I mean, if California has $15 an hour jobs for all, people would flock from all over to move there and that would help them with their tax revenue, right?

[~Rocktar~]

Maybe California would reach the weight limit needed for it to finally break off the continent and fall into the sea.

[Parkbandit]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/a9da660224235e682e4295f21122a04291d4d7b8/c=238-0-3867-2728&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/USATODAY/USATODAY/2013/12/05//1386260319008-2.jpg

This company has the answer:

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/50b6726f69beddd474000002-1200-750/robot-specs.png

[Androidpk]

The answer to what? How to make more people lose their jobs?

[AnticorRifling]

I want 15/hr to get orders wrong.

[Parkbandit]

The answer to what? How to make more people lose their jobs?

"I demand $15/hour that currently pays $10.. and I want to be in a union or I'll walk"

[Androidpk]

Which fast food restaurants pay $10/h?

[JackWhisper]

In Seattle? I donno.

In Sacramento, my sister managed a Pizza Hut for about 2 years. Her lowest paid person was 10.37 an hour. And they just bussed tables.

[Androidpk]

In Seattle? I donno.

In Sacramento, my sister managed a Pizza Hut for about 2 years. Her lowest paid person was 10.37 an hour. And they just bussed tables.

That is definitely not the norm.

[Thondalar]

That is definitely not the norm.

Like most jobs, it depends on where you're at. Cost of living and what not. I've never worked in fast food, but I've worked in casual dining most of my adult life, and the average for line cooks in my area is about $10/hour. 45 minutes west, in the "big city" (Tampa), it'd be closer to $12. As far as I know, all fast food grunt workers make the minimum wage starting out, although there is a raise structure.

[Ker_Thwap]

Demand to make $15 an hour gross, then pay $37.50 of that over to a union every month. This is even more awesome if you're a part timer.

[leifastagsweed]

It costs $8.88 for a Whopper Combo meal at Burger King in WA State. In order for two low-income people to eat one meal a day, at least one of them has to work a little over an hour. Economics 101. BAM.

[Parkbandit]

Which fast food restaurants pay $10/h?

The current minimum hiring wage in Washington State is $9.32 per hour.

I'm certain you can find plenty of starting fast food restaurant jobs in Seattle making $10 an hour.

If you need some assistance, I can make some calls to set up interviews for you. Yes, I'm that nice.

[Androidpk]

The current minimum hiring wage in Washington State is $9.32 per hour.

I'm certain you can find plenty of starting fast food restaurant jobs in Seattle making $10 an hour.

If you need some assistance, I can make some calls to set up interviews for you. Yes, I'm that nice.

Ok.

[Keller]

This company has the answer:

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/50b6726f69beddd474000002-1200-750/robot-specs.png

That is sexy as hell. I'd also love a touch screen instead of a human to take my order.

[Tgo01]

That is sexy as hell. I'd also love a touch screen instead of a human to take my order.

Arby's seems to go back and forth between implementing this. I remember one Arby's had this about 20+ years ago but it only lasted about a month if I recall.

Then the Arby's near where I live now had one set up for about a month as well a couple of years back.

I guess not all customers are ready to take the plunge in entering their own order into a computer screen yet. I'm sure companies would help "encourage" them into the transition if their workers made 15 dollars an hour.

[~Rocktar~]

That is sexy as hell. I'd also love a touch screen instead of a human to take my order.

At least the order would be right. I don't speak ghetto or white trash so I guess I sould be nicer about those taking my order since they are working in a second language. The order still ends up wrong about 20% of the time but a touch screen would be a good start.

[Androidpk]

At least the order would be right. I don't speak ghetto or white trash so I guess I sould be nicer about those taking my order since they are working in a second language. The order still ends up wrong about 20% of the time but a touch screen would be a good start.

Speaking of white trash.

[Gelston]

Speaking of white trash.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA It is funny because you mean him and he is!

[Methais]

http://www.skippyskip.com/generator/dat/676.jpg

[Thondalar]

It costs $8.88 for a Whopper Combo meal at Burger King in WA State. In order for two low-income people to eat one meal a day, at least one of them has to work a little over an hour. Economics 101. BAM.

You could get a whole chicken and a sack of potatoes for $9.

[Gelston]

You could get a whole chicken and a sack of potatoes for $9.

Buying food from the grocery store is so much cheaper than fast food.

[Androidpk]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA It is funny because you mean him and he is!

Go home, Gelston, you're drunk!

[Methais]

It costs $8.88 for a Whopper Combo meal at Burger King in WA State. In order for two low-income people to eat one meal a day, at least one of them has to work a little over an hour. Economics 101. BAM.

http://i.imgur.com/P2TF1sC.png

[Parkbandit]

That is sexy as hell. I'd also love a touch screen instead of a human to take my order.

I actually like this idea. They will still need employees to stock/clean and maintain this equipment.. but a fast food place that makes your burger with fresh grinds of whatever meat you want.. plus slices the condiments for each order so everything is fresh? Plus, I don't have to worry about some fucking kid spitting in my burger because he's not making what he thinks he's worth??

Hell yes, sign me up.

[Parkbandit]

http://ushumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Just-because-I-can-t-afford-to-eat-out-all-the-time-doesn-t-mean-I-m-broke.png?cb=pzOpC1O5QS

Image failure.

It's like you don't even care anymore..... come on man, you are better than this!

[Tgo01]

Buying food from the grocery store is so much cheaper than fast food.

Yeah I really don't understand the complaint about how much it costs to eat at a restaurant. I know people like to joke around and say fast food isn't "real" food but you're still paying someone to cook your food for you, of course it's going to be more expensive than buying the food yourself and cooking it.

A Banquet frozen dinner only costs one dollar and is probably better for you. Slightly better but still.

[Gelston]

Yeah I really don't understand the complaint about how much it costs to eat at a restaurant. I know people like to joke around and say fast food isn't "real" food but you're still paying someone to cook your food for you, of course it's going to be more expensive than buying the food yourself and cooking it.

A Banquet frozen dinner only costs one dollar and is probably better for you. Slightly better but still.

I usually only eat fast food when I'm drunk or too busy to cook.

[waywardgs]

Buying food from the grocery store is so much cheaper than fast food.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-is-cheapest-and-most-nutritious-food-in-human-history.html

"Stephen Dubner, who co-authored the best-selling book, hosted a debate on his blog after a reader suggested the
McDouble packed a better nutritional punch for the penny than is often assumed.
The double cheeseburger provides 390 calories, 23 grams of protein – half a daily serving – seven per cent of daily fibre,
19 grams of fat and 20 per cent of daily calcium, all for between $1 and $2, or 65p and £1.30, The Times reported.
Kyle Smith, a New York Post columnist, threw his support behind the McDouble’s nutritional value for money.
“For the average poor person, it isn’t a great option to take a trip to the farmers market to puzzle over esoteric lefty-foodie codes”,
Mr Smith wrote. “Facts are facts – where else but McDonald’s can poor people obtain so many calories per dollar?”

[Gelston]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/10210327/McDouble-is-cheapest-and-most-nutritious-food-in-human-history.html

"Stephen Dubner, who co-authored the best-selling book, hosted a debate on his blog after a reader suggested the McDouble packed a better nutritional punch for the penny than is often assumed.
The double cheeseburger provides 390 calories, 23 grams of protein – half a daily serving – seven per cent of daily fibre, 19 grams of fat and 20 per cent of daily calcium, all for between $1 and $2, or 65p and £1.30, The Times reported."

I can buy a 3 pound bag of frozen chicken that lasts a week for the price of a McD value meal.

Just looked up who Stephen Dubner is, yeah... I don't think I'd take his word for it. He isn't a nutritionist or anything. Just a random journalist.

[waywardgs]

He's talking specifically about the dollar-2 dollar double cheeseburger, not a value meal, and the amount of calories you get for that dollar.

[Gelston]

He's talking specifically about the dollar-2 dollar double cheeseburger, not a value meal, and the amount of calories you get for that dollar.

1 double cheeseburger for dinner everyday for a week would be $14. That bag of chicken is still cheaper. Hell, for that price, I can get TWO bags of chicken.

[waywardgs]

1 double cheeseburger for dinner everyday for a week would be $14. That bag of chicken is still cheaper. Hell, for that price, I can get TWO bags of chicken.

Give me the caloric count of your chicken v the caloric value of the burger, and let's assume $1 per burger. I don't know if he's right, but it's an interesting argument nonetheless.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

1 double cheeseburger for dinner everyday for a week would be $14. That bag of chicken is still cheaper. Hell, for that price, I can get TWO bags of chicken.

and the electricity or gas to cook it, the water to wash plates, the initial cost of purchasing an oven/grill, the cost of pots and pans, utensils, etc... Will you season it? Is there any preparation (cutting/portions/cleaning)? Does it need to be refrigerated or frozen? I'm sure it's cheaper, but you aren't taking into account everything involved. And eating only chicken probably isn't healthy in the long run.

[Androidpk]

Gelston, you would enjoy this meal.

http://media.irishcentral.com/images/swf+Irish+Seven+Course+Dinner.jpg

[Jeril]

Consider what that double cheeseburger consists of and compare the prices to what you'd pay for it. I also just looked at some cheap frozen dinner things I bought recently, 1.99 for 490 calories. So, I paid less and I got more and if I bought and made my own food it would be a bit cheaper per meal which easily adds up over time. For breakfast I tend to eat 4 eggs, 4 pieces of sausage, and 2 waffles, all well under 2 bucks per meal.

[Gelston]

Give me the caloric count of your chicken v the caloric value of the burger, and let's assume $1 per burger. I don't know if he's right, but it's an interesting argument nonetheless.

The double cheeseburger is 1.59 according to http://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ .

I already did the chicken value at $1 for 240 calories. The double Cheeseburger comes out more calories for the dollar. However, you can't say a food is *nutritious* based on calories alone and one food shouldn't be your sole source of caloric intake. Which is why you throw in the 4 pound bag of frozen broccoli as well... The 1 bag of chicken and 1 bag of broccoli still runs less than 7 $1.59 double cheeseburgers.

[Gelston]

and the electricity or gas to cook it, the water to wash plates, the initial cost of purchasing an oven/grill, the cost of pots and pans, utensils, etc... Will you season it? Is there any preparation (cutting/portions/cleaning)? Does it need to be refrigerated or frozen? I'm sure it's cheaper, but you aren't taking into account everything involved. And eating only chicken probably isn't healthy in the long run.

If it came down to it, you could cook it on a stick over a fire free of charge.

[waywardgs]

The double cheeseburger is 1.59 according to http://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/mcdonalds-prices/ .

I already did the chicken value at $1 for 240 calories. The double Cheeseburger comes out more calories for the dollar. However, you can't say a food is *nutritious* based on calories alone and one food shouldn't be your sole source of caloric intake. Which is why you throw in the 4 pound bag of frozen broccoli as well... The 1 bag of chicken and 1 bag of broccoli still runs less than 7 $1.59 double cheeseburgers.

He's just talking about caloric value. Pure calories for the dollar. Not even rice and beans beats it for pure calories/dollar. I agree calories aren't the only thing involved in nutrition, but it's an interesting fact nonetheless.

[Gelston]

He's just talking about caloric value. Pure calories for the dollar. Not even rice and beans beats it for pure calories/dollar. I agree calories aren't the only thing involved in nutrition, but it's an interesting fact nonetheless.

Well, in the thing it also says "Most nutritious" too. Which I hope no one thinks is true.

[waywardgs]

Opportunity cost too I guess- 3 minutes to order vs what, a half hour? Hour? To cook something else?

[Gelston]

Opportunity cost too I guess- 3 minutes to order vs what, a half hour? Hour? To cook something else?

Depends on how you cook it, but yeah. 30 minutes is generous.

[Gelston]

Oh, and I just found something that blows McDonalds away. Marie Callender's Chick Pot Pies. I got an 8 pack for $11. Each pie has 610 calories.... And it is microwaveable!

[Parkbandit]

He's just talking about caloric value. Pure calories for the dollar. Not even rice and beans beats it for pure calories/dollar. I agree calories aren't the only thing involved in nutrition, but it's an interesting fact nonetheless.

If you are going by strictly calories.. you can just buy butter that has more calories than the burger and costs less.

[Androidpk]

If you want the absolute freshest and best tasting food for a ridiculously low price then go to a CSA farm if you can. Share prices tend to run $20-30 a week and you get a ton of vegetables and fruit.

[Gelston]

If you want the absolute freshest and best tasting food for a ridiculously low price then go to a CSA farm if you can. Share prices tend to run $20-30 a week and you get a ton of vegetables and fruit.

Hippie.

[Gelston]

If you are going by strictly calories.. you can just buy butter that has more calories than the burger and costs less.

Whats for dinner tonight? Oh, a tub of betty crocker.

[Androidpk]

Hippie.

Now that I think about it.. shouldn't it be hippy?

[Gelston]

Now that I think about it.. shouldn't it be hippy?

Either. The Wikipedia page is hippie though, with hippy as an or. I go with the popular spelling, lest I be called a hipster.

[Androidpk]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_(etymology)

[Tgo01]

If it came down to it, you could cook it on a stick over a fire free of charge.

Oh yeah? Where do you get the fire from? Do you light a rag with a lighter? This stuff costs money y'know. Sticks don't just grow on trees.

[Gelston]

Oh yeah? Where do you get the fire from? Do you light a rag with a lighter? This stuff costs money y'know. Sticks don't just grow on trees.

You burn down your ticket oak.

[Tgo01]

Also the boneless chicken Hungry Man dinners are around 2.69, my local grocery store often has them on sale for 2 dollars or less, and they have somewhere around 800-900 calories. And it has mashed potatoes, a brownie and corn and it's not just chicken!

Them be food magicians over at Hungry Man.

[Androidpk]

Also the boneless chicken Hungry Man dinners are around 2.69, my local grocery store often has them on sale for 2 dollars or less, and they have somewhere around 800-900 calories. And it has mashed potatoes, a brownie and corn and it's not just chicken!

Them be food magicians over at Hungry Man.

How much sodium?

[Tgo01]

How much sodium?

...shut up!

Actually this site shows all nutrition info on it:

http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-hungry-man-fried-chicken-i232713

1350 sodium, meh, it's a bit high but by itself it's not too bad really. As long as you eat mostly fruits and vegetables the rest of the day, maybe also a Snickers bar.

860 calories also with 24% of daily fiber needs, almost 40 grams of protein, lots of vitamins A and C, calcium, iron.

Yes. I love these things. Plus no bones, although it's strange because every once in a while I crave the bone ones even though for some reason they cost like a dollar more.

[Androidpk]

You heard it hear first, guys, Tgo sometimes craves the bone.

[Methais]

Image failure.

It's like you don't even care anymore..... come on man, you are better than this!

IT WASN'T MY FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

http://i.imgur.com/P2TF1sC.png

[Methais]

I can buy a 3 pound bag of frozen chicken that lasts a week for the price of a McD value meal.

Just looked up who Stephen Dubner is, yeah... I don't think I'd take his word for it. He isn't a nutritionist or anything. Just a random journalist.

He looks like a big stupid lefty fag.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PISt6iBMbKw/TeLMbnUkK1I/AAAAAAAATys/KreoX7zlxdw/s320/DSC07954.JPG

[Jeril]

IT WASN'T MY FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

http://i.imgur.com/P2TF1sC.png

Just seemed like another odd moment on the forums, it wasn't showing on either your post or his reply, then it was.

[Methais]

Just seemed like another odd moment on the forums, it wasn't showing on either your post or his reply, then it was.

It's because I had to copy the pic to imgur because for whatever reason trying to link it from the site I found it on originally was (and still is) being gay.


cheeseburgers

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m32bwnX5Xx1qmtumzo1_500.jpg

[Warriorbird]

He looks like a big stupid lefty fag.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PISt6iBMbKw/TeLMbnUkK1I/AAAAAAAATys/KreoX7zlxdw/s320/DSC07954.JPG

Leavitt and Dubner are both Republicans.

[Parkbandit]

He looks like a big stupid lefty fag.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PISt6iBMbKw/TeLMbnUkK1I/AAAAAAAATys/KreoX7zlxdw/s320/DSC07954.JPG

I'm sure you meant to say he likes like a big stupid lefty Packer.

I can't get this done on my own man.. help a brother out.

[Methais]

Oh yeah? Where do you get the fire from? Do you light a rag with a lighter? This stuff costs money y'know. Sticks don't just grow on trees.

And how do you get to the store to buy this stuff? By driving on roads that the government built!

If it weren't for government you would all starve!!!!!!!!!!!11111

[Methais]

Leavitt and Dubner are both Republicans.

Well then he looks like a big stupid gay left leaning republican fag.

http://i.imgur.com/zNDKJ6x.jpg

[Gelston]

And how do you get to the store to buy this stuff? By driving on roads that the government built!

If it weren't for government you would all starve!!!!!!!!!!!11111

Where we are going, there are no roads.

[Methais]

Where we are going, there are no roads.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080911160408/bttf/images/9/94/Noroads-HQ.jpg

[JackWhisper]

That chick's hair is poofier than the Doc's.

[Thondalar]

That chick's hair is poofier than the Doc's.

It was the 80's, bro.

[Latrinsorm]

That chick's hair is poofier than the Doc's.They even shot the scene twice because they used a different actress in 1 and 2, but the poof survived.

[Ker_Thwap]

He's talking specifically about the dollar-2 dollar double cheeseburger, not a value meal, and the amount of calories you get for that dollar.

Yeah, a loss leader item, because they trust you'll also buy a soda the size of your head.

[Keller]

I actually like this idea. They will still need employees to stock/clean and maintain this equipment.. but a fast food place that makes your burger with fresh grinds of whatever meat you want.. plus slices the condiments for each order so everything is fresh? Plus, I don't have to worry about some fucking kid spitting in my burger because he's not making what he thinks he's worth??

Hell yes, sign me up.

Exactly. And it would be much cheaper.

[Androidpk]

Exactly. And it would be much cheaper.

You're delusional if you think prices would decrease.

[Astray]

I told a friend about this and she laughed, shortly before punching me in the kidney. In all honesty, $15 an hour is absurd for the lack of effort working at a burger joint pays... that's on par (if not better) with what most cooks make in a restaurant busting their asses.

[Keller]

You're delusional if you think prices would decrease.

huh?

[Suppressed Poet]

Seattle should first wait for the inevitable hyperinflation of the dollar to arrive.

Won't be too long now before you will need two shopping carts when you go to the grocery store...one for the groceries and one to cart around the cash needed to pay for them.

[Thondalar]

Seattle should first wait for the inevitable hyperinflation of the dollar to arrive.

Won't be too long now before you will need two shopping carts when you go to the grocery store...one for the groceries and one to cart around the cash needed to pay for them.

It's taken us 100 years to turn $20 into $480, we'll be fine. Besides, the Fed will take care of all of that.

[Latrinsorm]

Seattle should first wait for the inevitable hyperinflation of the dollar to arrive.

Won't be too long now before you will need two shopping carts when you go to the grocery store...one for the groceries and one to cart around the cash needed to pay for them.For something that's inevitable it's sure taking its sweet time. Weimar Germany had more inflation in a day than we've had in a century, are we gonna let those guys push us around? huh?

[Suppressed Poet]

It's taken us 100 years to turn $20 into $480, we'll be fine. Besides, the Fed will take care of all of that.

The Fed can't afford another 2008. That's what I'm betting on...the Fed causing all of this. They don't have the capital reserve to save us from another financial crisis. One spark is all it takes, and we can't leverage it. So when it happens the next time, I expect they will borrow the money from a foreign source. Enter hyperinflation, which will only be a short-term result in a long-term list of consequences.

On the bright side, I think we will emerge stronger from it and finally fix some of the problems that has put us on this course.

[Warriorbird]

The Fed can't afford another 2008. That's what I'm betting on...the Fed causing all of this. They don't have the capital reserve to save us from another financial crisis. One spark is all it takes, and we can't leverage it. So when it happens the next time, I expect they will borrow the money from a foreign source. Enter hyperinflation, which will only be a short-term result in a long-term list of consequences.

On the bright side, I think we will emerge stronger from it and finally fix some of the problems that has put us on this course.

Ahh. The "must justify all the gold I bought from advertisers on the Glenn Beck program" economic theory. Good luck with that.

[Androidpk]

huh?

Replacing a human with an automated machine isn't going to give you a cheaper bill.

[Candor]

The Fed can't afford another 2008. That's what I'm betting on...the Fed causing all of this. They don't have the capital reserve to save us from another financial crisis. One spark is all it takes, and we can't leverage it. So when it happens the next time, I expect they will borrow the money from a foreign source. Enter hyperinflation, which will only be a short-term result in a long-term list of consequences.

On the bright side, I think we will emerge stronger from it and finally fix some of the problems that has put us on this course.

OK. I tried to follow the logic of this post, especially the last sentence. I failed. Maybe I need to have a couple more drinks.

[Androidpk]

The Fed can't afford another 2008. That's what I'm betting on...the Fed causing all of this. They don't have the capital reserve to save us from another financial crisis. One spark is all it takes, and we can't leverage it. So when it happens the next time, I expect they will borrow the money from a foreign source. Enter hyperinflation, which will only be a short-term result in a long-term list of consequences.

On the bright side, I think we will emerge stronger from it and finally fix some of the problems that has put us on this course.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-j69l3uZzo

[Gelston]

The Fed can't afford another 2008. That's what I'm betting on...the Fed causing all of this. They don't have the capital reserve to save us from another financial crisis. One spark is all it takes, and we can't leverage it. So when it happens the next time, I expect they will borrow the money from a foreign source. Enter hyperinflation, which will only be a short-term result in a long-term list of consequences.

On the bright side, I think we will emerge stronger from it and finally fix some of the problems that has put us on this course.

Has anyone called you a dumbass yet?

[Suppressed Poet]

I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my ass. Many respected economists have spoken about our current financial state.

The Fed's absurd policy of quantitative easing, the already trending demise of the petrodollar, China buying massive amounts of gold over the last several years, and the fact that right now the Fed is more leveraged than Lehman Brothers was... It's all there.

On the positive side, our massive debt becomes devalued to the point of being manageable. It will likely be a long road to recovery, but in the midst of financial ruin we can finally reorganize our financial system the correct way. Perhaps the Fed knows that and thus allowing it to happen, or perhaps they are just trying in vein to tread water just a little while longer.

And maybe I am indeed just a crazy dumbass...we shall see. We'll just have to wait for the next bubble to burst and evaluate then. I'm not really here to convince anyone.

Eff!!! How did I end up back here? Oh I know...I moved. As a consequence of moving , I had to clean out the garage. In my garage I found a box that had old paper journals of my eldest Gemstone character. Then I thought about playing again, which brought me to these gahdamn forums. And after looking at Gemstone stuff a couple days, I clicked on this thread in politics. Well eff you Simutronics!!!

[Androidpk]

I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my ass. Many respected economists have spoken about our current financial state.

The Fed's absurd policy of quantitative easing, the already trending demise of the petrodollar, China buying massive amounts of gold over the last several years, and the fact that right now the Fed is more leveraged than Lehman Brothers was... It's all there.

On the positive side, our massive debt becomes devalued to the point of being manageable. It will likely be a long road to recovery, but in the midst of financial ruin we can finally reorganize our financial system the correct way. Perhaps the Fed knows that and thus allowing it to happen, or perhaps they are just trying in vein to tread water just a little while longer.

And maybe I am indeed just a crazy dumbass...we shall see. We'll just have to wait for the next bubble to burst and evaluate then. I'm not really here to convince anyone.

Eff!!! How did I end up back here? Oh I know...I moved. As a consequence of moving , I had to clean out the garage. In my garage I found a box that had old paper journals of my eldest Gemstone character. Then I thought about playing again, which brought me to these gahdamn forums. And after looking at Gemstone stuff a couple days, I clicked on this thread in politics. Well eff you Simutronics!!!

Is the loss of the petrodollar that big of a deal these days considering the US produces more oil than Saudi Arabia?

[Methais]

I wanna be a top economist too.

[Thondalar]

Unnamed respected economists who are referenced in web advertising or in ads on Glenn Beck.

Ok, I'll name a few for you.

Walter Block (Columbia University)
Peter Boettke (George Mason University)
Donald Boudreaux (Auburn University)
Peter Klein (UC Berkeley)
Roger Garrison (University of Virginia)
Christopher Coyne (George Mason University)
Israel Kirzner (New York University)
Thomas DiLorenzo (Virginia Tech University)
David Gordon (UCLA)
Robert Higgs (Johns Hopkins University)
Don Lavoie (New York University)
Randall Holcome (Florida State University)
Steven Horwitz (George Mason University)
Robert Murphy (New York University)
Ernest Pasour (Michigan State University)
George Reisman (New York University)
Russel Roberts (University of Chicago)
Joseph Salerno (Rutgers University)
Mark Thornton (Auburn University)


I'm sure there are more...

[Back]

I wanna be a top economist too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67iYjNWHsHU

[Warriorbird]

Ok, I'll name a few for you.

Walter Block (Columbia University)
Peter Boettke (George Mason University)
Donald Boudreaux (Auburn University)
Peter Klein (UC Berkeley)
Roger Garrison (University of Virginia)
Christopher Coyne (George Mason University)
Israel Kirzner (New York University)
Thomas DiLorenzo (Virginia Tech University)
David Gordon (UCLA)
Robert Higgs (Johns Hopkins University)
Don Lavoie (New York University)
Randall Holcome (Florida State University)
Steven Horwitz (George Mason University)
Robert Murphy (New York University)
Ernest Pasour (Michigan State University)
George Reisman (New York University)
Russel Roberts (University of Chicago)
Joseph Salerno (Rutgers University)
Mark Thornton (Auburn University)


I'm sure there are more...

They ALL believe that we're immediately doomed? In exactly those words? What's important to note is that in an attempt to add fake credibility from the super classy Lew Rockwell (he's the one who's responsible for Ron Paul's racist letters) they've given the place these folks got college degrees from rather than where they teach at, if at all. It's also noteable that actually respectable libertarian thinkers from the Clarmont Institute pretty much ran a train on Thomas DiLorenzo's most famous scholarly work.


In his review for the Claremont Institute, Ken Masugi writes that "DiLorenzo adopts as his own the fundamental mistake of leftist multiculturalist historians: confusing the issue of race with the much more fundamental one, which was slavery." He noted that in Illinois "the anti-slavery forces actually joined with racists to keep their state free of slavery, and also free of blacks." Masugi called DiLorenzo's work "shabby" and stated that DiLorenzo's treatment of Lincoln was "feckless" and that the book is "truly awful".

DiLorenzo is also connected to the League of the South, people who make the Sons of Confederate Veterans look very credible.

Rather than take something from some email forward you might want to look at the provided list of names that somebody gave you. If I can find conservatives slamming one of these thinkers there's bound to be more out there.

[Thondalar]

They ALL believe that we're immediately doomed? In exactly those words? What's important to note is that in an attempt to add fake credibility from the super classy Lew Rockwell (he's the one who's responsible for Ron Paul's racist letters) they've given the place these folks got college degrees from rather than where they teach at, if at all.

Who said we're immediately doomed? They all believe we're on the way wrong path and will eventually be doomed, although the exact time frame varies pretty wildly. I made that list, and I'm aware I posted the school they did their postgraduate work at. What's your point?


It's also noteable that actually respectable libertarian thinkers from the Clarmont Institute pretty much ran a train on Thomas DiLorenzo's most famous scholarly work.

DiLorenzo is also connected to the League of the South, people who make the Sons of Confederate Veterans look very credible.

I thought we were talking about economics here? What does his attempts to rewrite the history of Lincoln based on his White Supremacy views have to do with economics?


Rather than take something from some email forward you might want to look at the provided list of names that somebody gave you. If I can find conservatives slamming one of these thinkers there's bound to be more out there.

Again, I made this list myself. DiLorenzo is certainly a bad apple when it comes to his racial views...if you feel comfortable assuming that clouds his ability to study economics, I don't have a problem scratching him from the list. Let's replace him with Mark Spitznagel.

[Gelston]

Can we go back to talking about double cheeseburgers?

[Thondalar]

Can we go back to talking about double cheeseburgers?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJZ_k1rQN90

Ok fine, here's a cheeseburger...at least I'm pretty sure there's a cheeseburger in here somewhere. I really can't say if it's a double or not, though.

[Methais]

Can we go back to talking about double cheeseburgers?

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/e8/db/72/e8db7234578b111b1d9dbbecb63ffcb6.jpg
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130809141601/trailerpark/images/thumb/2/27/4x02-bluejayburger.png/185px-4x02-bluejayburger.png

[Androidpk]

Dibs on the truck.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my ass. Many respected economists have spoken about our current financial state.

The Fed's absurd policy of quantitative easing, the already trending demise of the petrodollar, China buying massive amounts of gold over the last several years, and the fact that right now the Fed is more leveraged than Lehman Brothers was... It's all there.

On the positive side, our massive debt becomes devalued to the point of being manageable. It will likely be a long road to recovery, but in the midst of financial ruin we can finally reorganize our financial system the correct way. Perhaps the Fed knows that and thus allowing it to happen, or perhaps they are just trying in vein to tread water just a little while longer.

And maybe I am indeed just a crazy dumbass...we shall see. We'll just have to wait for the next bubble to burst and evaluate then. I'm not really here to convince anyone.

Eff!!! How did I end up back here? Oh I know...I moved. As a consequence of moving , I had to clean out the garage. In my garage I found a box that had old paper journals of my eldest Gemstone character. Then I thought about playing again, which brought me to these gahdamn forums. And after looking at Gemstone stuff a couple days, I clicked on this thread in politics. Well eff you Simutronics!!!I can understand your frustration. It seems so obvious that fiat currencies shouldn't work, that a government shouldn't be able to print its way out of trouble without getting hammered by inflation. Then we get the perfect storm: a recession under a socialist President, money is printed, and... inflation never cracks 4%. (For reference, compare to George HW Bush's peak of 6.3%, twice averaging 5% in a year, and yet the only mention of inflation in his wikipedia article is a positive one.) You talk about the next bubble, but this was supposed to be the one. There was supposed to be a double dip recession, runaway inflation, economic collapse... and then there just wasn't. It's frustrating, but now you can look for the reasons why equating our monetary policy with (e.g.) Weimar Germany's didn't work.

[leifastagsweed]

So my previous comment was sarcasm laced with truth. It's not exactly news that poverty and obesity go hand in hand.

I hear so much generalization and stereotyping in this discussion that while it is understandable to some degree, being a local resident of W WA, I feel like these stereotypes don't accurately reflect the economy in Seattle as I know it. I am curious if ANY of you who are soapboxing on this issue actually live in Seattle or have any real knowledge of the local economy to speak to this issue?

[Gelston]

So my previous comment was sarcasm laced with truth. It's not exactly news that poverty and obesity go hand in hand.

I hear so much generalization and stereotyping in this discussion that while it is understandable to some degree, being a local resident of W WA, I feel like these stereotypes don't accurately reflect the economy in Seattle as I know it. I am curious if ANY of you who are soapboxing on this issue actually live in Seattle or have any real knowledge of the local economy to speak to this issue?

Shut up, Meg.

[Jhynnifer]

Shut up, Meg.

6942

[leifastagsweed]

Both of your posts are snarky for the sake of trolling but in turn, clearly uninformed. This ain't drunken southern Louisiana politics up here in this neck of the woods nor is it entitled emo whining. Either way, both of you fail to deflect from the very reasonable question.

I myself have lived in metro areas areas Seattle for nearly 13 years. It's no secret that WA State has been in trouble for years and our economy needs fixed, badly. I don't necessarily agree with this measure, not that I have a vote in it nor currently a direct stake in it since I don't live or even work in the city limits. I certainly like to keep my ear to the ground on the business of local economy and am generally displeased with the handling of our city and local politicians. Therefore, I was initially pleased to see this topic brought up on the boards and was hoping to hear some educated or at least enlightened discussion on the topic. Alas, there doesn't seem to be many useful ideas shared here beyond rhetoric and stereotyping.

BTW, Meg's character Annie was from Baltimore, MD while Meg herself is from Fairfield, CT. But troll on.

[RSR]

BTW, Meg's character Annie was from Baltimore, MD while Meg herself is from Fairfield, CT. But troll on.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/5bb928187e7b465f8ad2b4ae8edfc221/tumblr_mk1ynouh5t1qd5hhno2_400.gif

[Parkbandit]

Both of your posts are snarky for the sake of trolling but in turn, clearly uninformed. This ain't drunken southern Louisiana politics up here in this neck of the woods nor is it entitled emo whining. Either way, both of you fail to deflect from the very reasonable question.

I myself have lived in metro areas areas Seattle for nearly 13 years. It's no secret that WA State has been in trouble for years and our economy needs fixed, badly. I don't necessarily agree with this measure, not that I have a vote in it nor currently a direct stake in it since I don't live or even work in the city limits. I certainly like to keep my ear to the ground on the business of local economy and am generally displeased with the handling of our city and local politicians. Therefore, I was initially pleased to see this topic brought up on the boards and was hoping to hear some educated or at least enlightened discussion on the topic. Alas, there doesn't seem to be many useful ideas shared here beyond rhetoric and stereotyping.

BTW, Meg's character Annie was from Baltimore, MD while Meg herself is from Fairfield, CT. But troll on.

http://img.ffffound.com/static-data/assets/6/7ea9986decccf2d688883c86ba536dfe69ad7111_m.jpg

[Atlanteax]

Could not find a more appropriate thread, so...

http://money.cnn.com/2014/10/09/technology/microsoft-ceo/index.html?iid=HP_LN


At the conference, Nadella implied that instead of asking for a raise, women should have faith that they will be rewarded over the long arc of a career.

"That ... might be one of the additional superpowers, that quite frankly, women who don't ask for raises have," he said. "Because that's good karma. It will come back."

Microsoft seems to be churning out excellent leaders at the CEO position.

[Parkbandit]

Don't ask for a raise because it's good karma?

LOL.

Only a woman would fall for that piece of advice!

[Warriorbird]

Danish fast food workers make $20 an hour. That's $2 less than what I make per hour at my public school teaching job.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/business/international/living-wages-served-in-denmark-fast-food-restaurants.html

[Tgo01]

Danish fast food workers make $20 an hour. That's $2 less than what I make per hour at my public school teaching job.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/business/international/living-wages-served-in-denmark-fast-food-restaurants.html

Denmark's individual taxes start at 45% for anything over 8k and top out at 62% for anything over 50k.

US on the other hand starts out at 15% for anything over 8-10kish and tops out at 63% at a much higher rate.

This means that guy working in Denmark making 20 dollars an hour earns around 23k a year after taxes while the person working fast food in the US making 10 dollars an hours makes around 16k a year after SS, Medicaid and federal taxes...this is assuming the American worker even has to pay federal taxes and doesn't receive EIC. If they manage to reduce their tax burden to zero they could end up making almost 19.5k a year.

So, yes, while the Danish worker makes 7k a year more for the same job that only averages out to an extra 134 dollars a week. You also have to wonder how much further that extra 134 dollars a week goes when the article itself explains that the difference in prices between a Big Mac is 17% between the two countries.

I didn't read the whole article but did it explain that Denmark is one of the biggest socialist states in the world? I can't help but laugh when one of these "livable wages" arguments comes up from a country that has one of the highest tax rates in the world.

Americans, even the most die hard of liberals, are always willing to help out the poor, until it affects their pocket book.

[Warriorbird]

Denmark's individual taxes start at 45% for anything over 8k and top out at 62% for anything over 50k.

US on the other hand starts out at 15% for anything over 8-10kish and tops out at 63% at a much higher rate.

This means that guy working in Denmark making 20 dollars an hour earns around 23k a year after taxes while the person working fast food in the US making 10 dollars an hours makes around 16k a year after SS, Medicaid and federal taxes...this is assuming the American worker even has to pay federal taxes and doesn't receive EIC. If they manage to reduce their tax burden to zero they could end up making almost 19.5k a year.

So, yes, while the Danish worker makes 7k a year more for the same job that only averages out to an extra 134 dollars a week. You also have to wonder how much further that extra 134 dollars a week goes when the article itself explains that the difference in prices between a Big Mac is 17% between the two countries.

I didn't read the whole article but did it explain that Denmark is one of the biggest socialist states in the world? I can't help but laugh when one of these "livable wages" arguments comes up from a country that has one of the highest tax rates in the world.

Americans, even the most die hard of liberals, are always willing to help out the poor, until it affects their pocket book.

This is another one of those "a conservative mixes up Danish taxes and benefits" posts. It's fine. What is missing from your comparison? Think on it a bit.

[Tgo01]

This is another one of those "a conservative mixes up Danish taxes and benefits" posts. It's fine. What is missing from your comparison? Think on it a bit.

?

You tell me.

[Warriorbird]

?

You tell me.

You didn't include the 6.6 grand standard deduction and Danish benefits/welfare. You also acted like only the American got benefits (which is kind of funny, given the Danish welfare state). You also granted the American worker a raise equivalent to the one that Republicans were Chicken Littling about. Nobody around here earns $10 an hour working fast food.

[Jarvan]

You didn't include the 6.6 grand standard deduction and Danish benefits/welfare. You also acted like only the American got benefits (which is kind of funny, given the Danish welfare state). You also granted the American worker a raise equivalent to the one that Republicans were Chicken Littling about. Nobody around here earns $10 working fast food.

I am sorry.

When I got to fast food place, and I order a burger with no tomato and onions, and a medium fry....

and I get a Burger with no lettuce and no pickles, but tomato and onions, and a small fry.. I don't think, Jeez! This person needs to make 8 dollars more an hour!! They are SOOOOOOOOOO underpaid for what they do.

Face it WB.. a fast food worker needs so few brain cells to do their job( I mean seriously.. most of them have FUCKING PICTURES for food and toppings on the registers, and they STILL get it wrong), yet it seems like half of them fuck it up anyway.. and you want to REWARD them? It's a shit job because you are supposed to strive for better, not be proud of working at McDonalds so you can drive a lexus.

[Tgo01]

You didn't include the deduction and Danish benefits/welfare and acted like only the American got benefits.

I didn't include the Danish benefits/welfare even though I specifically said Denmark is one of the most socialist countries on the planet? :/

I can almost guarantee you if this guy makes 20 dollars an hour slinging burgers he isn't going to bring his tax burden anywhere near to the 0 mark like the American worker could easily do.


You also granted the American worker a raise equivalent to the one that Republicans were Chicken Littling about. Nobody around here earns $10 working fast food.

No one? NO ONE?! How do you find the time to poll an entire segment of the local population to see how much they are making? :O

Fine. Let's go by the average fast food worker salary in the US, ~8 dollars an hour. After SS and blah blah the US worker is at around 14.5k a year. But since you insist on nitpicking these things let's assume everything in Denmark costs about 17% more, since so far all we have to go on is the Big Mac price difference.

That means the Dane's purchasing power is around 19k compared to the US worker which makes the difference in wages around 4.5k instead of my original estimate of 7k. Thanks for correcting me.

[Tgo01]

You didn't include the 6.6 grand standard deduction and Danish benefits/welfare.

I noticed you edited/clarified your post so let me quote the post you are referring to in which you said I didn't include the 6.6k standard Danish deduction:


Denmark's individual taxes start at 45% for anything over 8k and top out at 62% for anything over 50k.

You're actually giving them less of a deduction then I was.

[Warriorbird]

I am sorry.

When I got to fast food place, and I order a burger with no tomato and onions, and a medium fry....

and I get a Burger with no lettuce and no pickles, but tomato and onions, and a small fry.. I don't think, Jeez! This person needs to make 8 dollars more an hour!! They are SOOOOOOOOOO underpaid for what they do.

Face it WB.. a fast food worker needs so few brain cells to do their job( I mean seriously.. most of them have FUCKING PICTURES for food and toppings on the registers, and they STILL get it wrong), yet it seems like half of them fuck it up anyway.. and you want to REWARD them? It's a shit job because you are supposed to strive for better, not be proud of working at McDonalds so you can drive a lexus.

Curiously enough when people earn more and have a chance at better education they acquire more social mobility. They also spend more money to support other businesses and utilize the miracle of commerce. I know that most of these jobs will vanish for Americans in the future though, so it's somewhat silly. I still thought it telling that in hourly wages these guys only earn $2 less than what I do for teaching. It's awfully good I have other employment.


I didn't include the Danish benefits/welfare even though I specifically said Denmark is one of the most socialist countries on the planet? :/

I can almost guarantee you if this guy makes 20 dollars an hour slinging burgers he isn't going to bring his tax burden anywhere near to the 0 mark like the American worker could easily do.

You didn't include the free college, free healthcare, free medicine, free child care, children's benefits, disability benefits, and five weeks paid vacation. If you had you would've, you know, included them. You also didn't mention the unemployment benefits and free non college training.

You can ask Latrin in just what ways the "0 tax burden" whinging point is a myth.

I wonder how somebody who makes 40,000 there versus 40,000 here makes out.

[Tgo01]

You didn't include the free college, free healthcare, free medicine, free child care, children's benefits, disability benefits, and five weeks paid vacation.

Pretty sure I implied all of that when I mentioned their high tax rate and the fact that they are about the most socialist country on the planet.

As far as those freebies? The US worker would qualify for free healthcare, free medicine, free child care, children's benefits (food and baby formula and stuff), disability benefits...probably only 1-2 weeks paid vacation and they would receive interest free loans for college that they wouldn't have to start paying back until 6 months after they graduate.

Did I miss anything?


You can ask Latrin in just what ways the "0 tax burden" whinging point is a myth.

Myth? MYTH?! I was very specifically referring to federal income taxes. A lot of states don't have income taxes and even those that do the rates are usually much lower than the federal rate and the federal rate is already almost 0 for someone who makes less than 20k a year and I most certainly did include payroll taxes.


I wonder how somebody who makes 40,000 there versus 40,000 here makes out.

I have no idea. I imagine it's not a whole lot different to be honest.

[Tgo01]

I wonder if this site is at all accurate:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+State s&couConsumer Prices in Denmark are 40.10% higher than in United States

Consumer Prices in Denmark are 40.10% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Denmark are 26.82% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Denmark are 2.37% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Denmark are 87.78% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Denmark are 14.39% higher than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Denmark is 23.94% lower than in United States

In that case I was way off with my 17% figure earlier, looks like prices are actually 40% higher in Denmark.

Hmm...so...looks like the two employees live about the same.

[Warriorbird]

Pretty sure I implied all of that when I mentioned their high tax rate and the fact that they are about the most socialist country on the planet.

As far as those freebies? The US worker would qualify for free healthcare, free medicine, free child care, children's benefits (food and baby formula and stuff), disability benefits...probably only 1-2 weeks paid vacation and they would receive interest free loans for college that they wouldn't have to start paying back until 6 months after they graduate.

Did I miss anything?



Myth? MYTH?! I was very specifically referring to federal income taxes. A lot of states don't have income taxes and even those that do the rates are usually much lower than the federal rate and the federal rate is already almost 0 for someone who makes less than 20k a year and I most certainly did include payroll taxes.



I have no idea. I imagine it's not a whole lot different to be honest.

I'm very curious about this mysterious free child care. In the Danish sense, it's like welfare reform never happened. They get paid for each child, which I'd personally prefer to formula. I'm also amused by the thought that you think McDonalds workers get paid vacation. Free loans and free college tend to be pretty different.

What other taxes get applied to people outside of that "0 tax burden" in America?


I wonder if this site is at all accurate:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=United+State s&couConsumer Prices in Denmark are 40.10% higher than in United States

Consumer Prices in Denmark are 40.10% higher than in United States
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Denmark are 26.82% higher than in United States
Rent Prices in Denmark are 2.37% lower than in United States
Restaurant Prices in Denmark are 87.78% higher than in United States
Groceries Prices in Denmark are 14.39% higher than in United States
Local Purchasing Power in Denmark is 23.94% lower than in United States

In that case I was way off with my 17% figure earlier, looks like prices are actually 40% higher in Denmark.

Hmm...so...looks like the two employees live about the same.

17% was more accurate, though that applies to luxury items instead of the things the average fast food worker would buy. Some of those things are laughably off. Weird things like the 180% car tax probably mess those numbers up.

While in the Danish countryside my dollar went a LOT further than in Copenhagen, so the local purchasing power is strange unless I'm misunderstanding it.

I must've not gone to those 90% more expensive restaurants. Other than low end differences (the fast food prices were probably 25% more expensive) they seemed pretty similar to here.

[Tgo01]

I'm very curious about this mysterious free child care.

Mysterious free child care? Every state I have lived in has offered childcare assistance to low income families. I'm willing to bet every state has this now.


In the Danish sense, it's like welfare reform never happened. They get paid for each child, which I'd personally prefer to formula.

Earned Income Tax credit. It's basically paying people to have children as well.


I'm also amused by the thought that you think McDonalds workers get paid vacation.

Of course McDonald's workers get paid vacation. They also get paid holidays.


Free loans and free college tend to be pretty different.

Yes. If that's the only thing you can point to to say "See? SEE?!" Well then...I dunno. You win I guess :(

What other taxes get applied to people outside of that "0 tax burden" in America?[/QUOTE]

[Warriorbird]

Mysterious free child care? Every state I have lived in has offered childcare assistance to low income families. I'm willing to bet every state has this now.



Earned Income Tax credit. It's basically paying people to have children as well.



Of course McDonald's workers get paid vacation. They also get paid holidays.



Yes. If that's the only thing you can point to to say "See? SEE?!" Well then...I dunno. You win I guess :(

What other taxes get applied to people outside of that "0 tax burden" in America?

"Assistance" and "loans" != paid in full. The Earned Income Tax Credit is massively lower than welfare used to be in America and child payments are in Denmark. Imagine monthly child support from the government.

Hourly McDonald's workers get paid vacation?

[Tgo01]

"Assistance" and "loans" != paid in full.

Yes. I've already given you this one. I hardly see how that alone makes things oh so much better in Denmark.


The Earned Income Tax Credit is massively lower than welfare used to be in America and child payments are in Denmark. Imagine monthly child support from the government.

Just how much money are they doling out to people in Denmark for having children? Earned Income Tax Credit can be upwards of almost 8k a year depending on how much/little you make.


Hourly McDonald's workers get paid vacation?

Yes. As I said it's probably only a week. Plus 10 paid holidays. Do Denmark workers get paid holidays in addition to their 5 weeks paid vacations or is that included?

[Jarvan]

Curiously enough when people earn more and have a chance at better education they acquire more social mobility. They also spend more money to support other businesses and utilize the miracle of commerce. I know that most of these jobs will vanish for Americans in the future though, so it's somewhat silly. I still thought it telling that in hourly wages these guys only earn $2 less than what I do for teaching. It's awfully good I have other employment.


Why don't we just force people t o pay a minimum of 100$ an hour then, there would be zero poverty, and EVERYONE would have money?

Oh yeah.. cause it don't work.

The first thing that will happen if fast food workers are paid 15 an hour... 30-40% of the jobs will vanish.

Touch screens will replace cashiers for the most part. They will put in automated burger flippers. The drive thru will be either a voice prompt system or touch screen.

Oh so many of those wonderful people you so desperately want to help.. will be unemployed. GG.

[Warriorbird]

Why don't we just force people t o pay a minimum of 100$ an hour then, there would be zero poverty, and EVERYONE would have money?

Oh yeah.. cause it don't work.

The first thing that will happen if fast food workers are paid 15 an hour... 30-40% of the jobs will vanish.

Touch screens will replace cashiers for the most part. They will put in automated burger flippers. The drive thru will be either a voice prompt system or touch screen.

Oh so many of those wonderful people you so desperately want to help.. will be unemployed. GG.

The hyperbole is thick in the air. Nobody said $100 except wailing and tooth gnashing Republicans. I made the scary rebellious suggestion that I thought the minimum wage ought to be around $10. The far left suggested $15.

Touch screens were going to replace cashiers and workers before this situation. They still will.

You want them to starve, I understand. Personally I think more educational/vocational benefits ought to be offered. I'd like them to have chances to do better.

[Warriorbird]

Yes. I've already given you this one. I hardly see how that alone makes things oh so much better in Denmark.



Just how much money are they doling out to people in Denmark for having children? Earned Income Tax Credit can be upwards of almost 8k a year depending on how much/little you make.



Yes. As I said it's probably only a week. Plus 10 paid holidays. Do Denmark workers get paid holidays in addition to their 5 weeks paid vacations or is that included?

There's a large difference between paying for college degrees and getting loans for them.

Childcare costs can be intense in America. "Assistance" on a grand a month is a lot different than free in Denmark

The Danish child benefit starts out at $400 above top EITC and can nearly be 150% at the end. It's pretty crazy. Mind you... the Danish population is declining.

Carefully look at what sort of staff get all that free time at McDonalds. Part time do not. Most of the people we think of as fast food workers don't qualify for that.

Danish workers get paid holidays in addition to their 5 weeks paid vacation and vacation travel/accommodation money.

[Tgo01]

Childcare costs can be intense in America. "Assistance" on a grand a month is a lot different than free in Denmark

"Assistance" can mean free too. But you apparently never even heard of this in America so why you acting like an expert all of a sudden?


The Danish child benefit starts out at $400 above top EITC and can nearly be 150% at the end. It's pretty crazy.

They give out 12k a year to people with children in Denmark?

Well then Denmark wins. Let them have all of their taxes.


Carefully look at what sort of staff get all that free time at McDonalds. Part time do not.

That's fine. While we're on the subject of part time you do realize the vast majority of fast food workers in Denmark are part time too, right?