I really hate when administrations do this, any administration

[kutter]

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/05/white-house-quietly-releases-regulatory-agenda-on-holiday-weekend/


The Obama administration is fond of releasing news on Fridays and holiday weekends. Most people aren’t paying close attention to the media and a story can easily get buried without notice.

[JackWhisper]

I really hate when administrations let this happen, any administration

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/05/pay-to-potty_teachers_bathroom_policy_outrages_parents.ht ml

Really? I mean really really?

And Obama has nothing to do with this, but damn is this a shit situation.

[Latrinsorm]

Could it be as innocuous as people don't want to come back to a big task after a holiday weekend and therefore finish it before? Especially when "A cursory look revealed no major surprises. Regulations often take years to enact and most of the rules contained on the list have appeared on multiple editions." I'm not saying it's impossible for politicians to want to sneak something in, but if they aren't actually sneaking anything in then it's hard to take the motive attribution seriously.

[kutter]

Latrin I am not trying to be a smart ass, so do not take this the wrong way, but are you that naive or do you really have that much faith in the government? I work for them and I can tell you definitively, you should not place that much trust in them.

[Taernath]

It's not as big a deal now as it was before 24/7 news cycles and the internet.

[Whirlin]

It's pretty common for anyone or any organization to do that... Even back in high school, people used to pull senior pranks that canceled school on a Friday before a long weekend, because nobody remembered it come Tuesday.

[Latrinsorm]

Latrin I am not trying to be a smart ass, so do not take this the wrong way, but are you that naive or do you really have that much faith in the government? I work for them and I can tell you definitively, you should not place that much trust in them.I'm just wondering what specifically they're trying to sneak past us with this alleged technique. According to the article linked from your article, there was nothing that even reached the level of "surprising" in the release, let alone "diabolical" or "egregious". If they aren't sneaking anything past us, I think it reasonably follows that they aren't trying to.

I don't trust the government, but that doesn't mean I have to trust any allegation made against it.

[Warriorbird]

I'm just wondering what specifically they're trying to sneak past us with this alleged technique. According to the article linked from your article, there was nothing that even reached the level of "surprising" in the release, let alone "diabolical" or "egregious". If they aren't sneaking anything past us, I think it reasonably follows that they aren't trying to.

I don't trust the government, but that doesn't mean I have to trust any allegation made against it.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/50134331.jpg

[Thondalar]

Latrin I am not trying to be a smart ass, so do not take this the wrong way, but are you that naive or do you really have that much faith in the government? I work for them and I can tell you definitively, you should not place that much trust in them.

He really has that much faith in them. Surprising, as a scientist, but eh...what can you do.

[Latrinsorm]

I'll never understand how I advocate putting every member of the government under indefinite surveillance and somehow that means I trust them. I can't imagine what you people want to do to those you don't trust.

I'll also never understand how my not facilely buying into any allegation against someone you don't like means I'm the gullible one.

[Tgo01]

I'll never understand how I advocate putting every member of the government under indefinite surveillance and somehow that means I trust them.

But who is going to be monitoring the people under surveillance? The government, right? Unless there's going to be some sort of bigger brother to watch over big brother.

But then who watches over bigger brother?

[Wrathbringer]

I'll never understand how I advocate putting every member of the government under indefinite surveillance and somehow that means I trust them. I can't imagine what you people want to do to those you don't trust.

I'll also never understand how my not facilely buying into any allegation against someone you don't like means I'm the gullible one.

quick universal surveillance logistical inquiry, if you'll permit me. I gather someone will be watching the camera feeds. I also gather they will have cameras trained on them, otherwise it's not universal. Will the second camera feed watchers have a third set of camera's trained on them, which will be watched by a fourth set of individuals? And finally, will those people have camera's on them as well?

[Wrathbringer]

But who is going to be monitoring the people under surveillance? The government, right? Unless there's going to be some sort of bigger brother to watch over big brother.

But then who watches over bigger brother?

You always have to be first, don't you.

[Latrinsorm]

quick universal surveillance logistical inquiry, if you'll permit me. I gather someone will be watching the camera feeds. I also gather they will have cameras trained on them, otherwise it's not universal. Will the second camera feed watchers have a third set of camera's trained on them, which will be watched by a fourth set of individuals? And finally, will those people have camera's on them as well?The logistics of the system are that the surveillance would be largely automated, in the same way our satellite surveillance currently is. As such, there is no need for turtles all the way down: someone looked at satellite surveillance of Iraq, was that person under satellite surveillance? And did we have a satellite trained on the person reviewing that meta-surveillance? And so on? Therefore satellites don't exist... and yet they exist! The human element does not review all footage, it merely gives a binary response to specific footage presented to it by the M-M-Machine: investigate or do not. This makes case review simple by defense counsel (as Warriorbird has cited in the past) or similar parties.

There is certainly still room for abuse, and the system will inevitably be abused. This is not a change from the status quo. Every day in America, a police officer uses their service weapon to shoot and kill an innocent person. If that is acceptable, so to will a surveillance officer using their service weapon to shoot and videograph an innocent person.

[kutter]

Without getting into the weeds of the discussion about universal surveillance, I was speaking more directly to a pattern of behaviour. My father once told me, 'If they do not advertise the price, then they are not proud of it.' This falls directly in line with this pattern. Administrations do things like this in Fridays on long weekends for all the reasons listed. The fact that in this particular case it may or may not be innocuous is not relevant to my point. It is the practice that is the issue. Obamacare was not signed and released on a Friday evening before a long weekend to no fan fare because they wanted press attention to it. So then, why was this not released on Wednesday evening instead, oh wait, because then it would show up on the news on Thursday morning. Clearly administrations that just want things to disappear employ tactics like this because they work and as longs as the lemmings stay in line, they will continue to do so.

[Tenlaar]

The fact that in this particular case it may or may not be innocuous is not relevant to my point.

Would it be relevant to your point to ask what past cases were not innocuous?

[kutter]

Would it be relevant to your point to ask what past cases were not innocuous?

Sure it is, and I am not trying to pick any more on the current administration that an other, it is just my memory sucks, but to site two that stick out in my mind, the WH dumped numerous Solyndra documents on several Fridays last year and numerous changes to the ACA have been released on Friday evenings. These items are not innocuous since in one case a company defrauded the government out of a loan and in the other you can argue that the WH is exceeding its authority in implementing changes to the law without going back to Congress for approval.

[Warriorbird]

I am not trying to pick any more on the current administration that an other

But you will.

[Methais]

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/05/white-house-quietly-releases-regulatory-agenda-on-holiday-weekend/

You need to let go of your hatred of black people. Obama is trying his best and bigots like you are standing in the way of progress with your racism.

[Latrinsorm]

Without getting into the weeds of the discussion about universal surveillance, I was speaking more directly to a pattern of behaviour. My father once told me, 'If they do not advertise the price, then they are not proud of it.' This falls directly in line with this pattern. Administrations do things like this in Fridays on long weekends for all the reasons listed. The fact that in this particular case it may or may not be innocuous is not relevant to my point. It is the practice that is the issue. Obamacare was not signed and released on a Friday evening before a long weekend to no fan fare because they wanted press attention to it.This sounds like a false dichotomy to me. It's true that there are things I would want advertised and things I would not, but there are also things I don't care about either way.
So then, why was this not released on Wednesday evening instead, oh wait, because then it would show up on the news on Thursday morning. Clearly administrations that just want things to disappear employ tactics like this because they work and as longs as the lemmings stay in line, they will continue to do so.Well, but it didn't disappear. I found out about it at least fourth-hand: from you from an article from another article, and the initial article was published about an hour after the report was released. Woodward and Bernstein this was not.

Can you consider my alternate explanation? To restate: people in general would rather not have work hanging over them on a long weekend, therefore they are more likely to finish a particular report before one rather than after it. Isn't this more consistent with the facts that (a) there was nothing in the report worth hiding and (b) it wasn't successfully hidden?

People naturally conform themselves to our arbitrary units of time: haven't you ever noticed how many things just so happen to take an hour? If some Babylonian had decided to divide the day into 20 instead of 24, you can bet things would just so happen to take 72 minutes instead of 60. The same principle applies to the arbitrary unit of a week, and the even more arbitrary unit of a work week. How many times has your boss said to you "we need that done by Thursday at 2 PM" without something specific happening at that time? Compare to how many times your boss has said "we need that done by close of business / the end of the week / etc.". This is just how people are.

[kutter]

I find it very disconcerting that I am pretty much the only person that sees this as a deceptive practice. Maybe you all think I am chicken little, and maybe I am, for your sake I hope that I am, but what happens if I am not?

Clearly most of you do not seem to think the government can do any wrong, well I have news for you, being one of the little wheels inside it I can assure that it can and does.

[Latrinsorm]

In this very thread I have accused the government of killing hundreds of innocent people every year. Your inability to produce evidence does not indicate my inability to believe it.

[Allereli]

The semi-annual regulatory agenda is published twice a year. people know when to look for it. after working at a regulatory law firm for over 10 years, I've never seen it considered news.


The fact that the administration chose to release the new rules on a holiday weekend makes them even more suspect.

The article is suspect because the agenda is not, nor has ever been, a rule.

[Tenlaar]

Clearly most of you do not seem to think the government can do any wrong

Clearly you have a tendency to jump to completely unfounded conclusions based on little to no evidence. You'll need to post more evidence than "they totally do it, I swear."

[kutter]

Clearly you have a tendency to jump to completely unfounded conclusions based on little to no evidence. You'll need to post more evidence than "they totally do it, I swear."

I cannot, I would lose my job, I work for DHS in a law enforcement capacity, by and large the information that I see is classified at least law enforcement sensitive and up to secret. Believe what you want, I really do not care.

[Warriorbird]

I cannot, I would lose my job, I work for DHS in a law enforcement capacity, by and large the information that I see is classified at least law enforcement sensitive and up to secret. Believe what you want, I really do not care.

I believe the government does all sorts of terrible things. I don't believe you falling for this particular piece of agitprop is anywhere near the worst.

[kutter]

I believe the government does all sorts of terrible things. I don't believe you falling for this particular piece of agitprop is anywhere near the worst.

So by your rational because it is not the worst then it is acceptable? What would not be considered acceptable to you? And I am not speaking about Friday night data dumps since clearly you do not see this as a deceptive practice.

[cwolff]

So by your rational because it is not the worst then it is acceptable? What would not be considered acceptable to you? And I am not speaking about Friday night data dumps since clearly you do not see this as a deceptive practice.

Is this a deceptive practice? I've not seen you defend your article's legitimacy so far. I read the article and it's obviously biased/yellow journalism. That doesn't mean that I'm dismissing it out of hand. Even the National Enquirer might get something right now and again but I've yet to see you explain why this was unethical, abnormal or that it would have made any difference at all if it had been filed on a Tuesday instead of a Friday.

[Warriorbird]

So by your rational because it is not the worst then it is acceptable? What would not be considered acceptable to you? And I am not speaking about Friday night data dumps since clearly you do not see this as a deceptive practice.

It's a matter of degrees. Am I far more sickened by the disastrous Bush/Obama education policies, the continued nonsense of Bush/Obama Iraq, reckless Clinton/Bush/Obama globalization, and Bush/Obama modernized spying on everyone invading privacy? Yes. News has been managed since before 1800.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_T._Callender

[Latrinsorm]

Man, the Sedition Act was so great. We really need to get back to what the Founders intended, guys.

[Wrathbringer]

Man, the Sedition Act was so great. We really need to get back to what the Founders intended, guys.

Agreed. Repeal the 20th century!