Obama the Conservative

[cwolff]

I've thought this for some time and it's one reason why I shake my head at all the "liberal" talk and anti-obama talk that gets thrown around by our conservative members. Found some information about it so I'm posting here.


Rand Paul, a to-be candidate for the Republican presidential nomination in 2016, told a radio show Tuesday he believes President Barack Obama is trying to “transform America into a socialist nightmare.” This is a standard rallying cry from the far right, even if it’s rarely laid out in such plainspoken language by a mainstream politician. The United States of America, it goes, is becoming a socialist hellhole.

But here’s the problem: The numbers don't back that up. Instead, they reveal an America that is running away from a “socialist” anything.

As President Obama enters the final half of his last term, he has left us with an America that conservatives should love.ESQUIRE (http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/barack-obamas-conservative-utopia)

The topics covered in this article are:

Taxing the Rich
Fracking
Abortion
Corporate Profits
The Deficit
Deportations
Defense Spending


Then there's this website titled Obama the Conservative (http://www.obamatheconservative.com/).


Two significant shifts have happened during the first months of Obama’s second term. Firstly, the reality of the president’s true policies has finally penetrated mainstream discussion, spurred on by the Guantánamo hunger strikes, revelations about en mass domestic surveillance, prosecution of journalists and whistleblowers, as well as by the growing consciousness about the drone assassinations. Secondly, freed from the pressures of reelection, the White House has become free to move even further to the right, and away from the president’s liberal base. With all this in mind, I am posting my final updates to this text, which shall serve as a summary – albeit still an incomplete one – of Obama’s first term.

Overall I'm pretty happy with Obama and don't have many complaints. The NSA bullshit bothers me along with all the fracking and our inability to raise taxes back to previous levels in recent history. I'm pleased with foreign policy overall. To borrow a phrase from Fareed Zakaria, Obama's approach is minimalist. Ya, all in all I'm pleased with his Presidency but then again, I'm not really a liberal.

To me, the bottom line is that Obama is governing as a conservative and the rhetoric is just a lot of hot air. This is why the attacks from the right are increasingly out of touch. We've got Benghazi, IRS, Bundy Ranch/BLM, PPACA, a government shutdown and all kinds of other issues that leave most of the moderates scratching their head and wondering just what the hell is happening over there on the right.

[Tgo01]

I'm not really a liberal.

You always know how to make me laugh.

I've never understood this "Obama is really a Republican" nonsense. If that were true then why are so many Democrats/liberals in love with the man?

[Warriorbird]

You always know how to make me laugh.

I've never understood this "Obama is really a Republican" nonsense. If that were true then why are so many Democrats/liberals in love with the man?

Good PR. Modern parties also run centrists, in spite of all the claims to the contrary.

[cwolff]

You always know how to make me laugh.

I've never understood this "Obama is really a Republican" nonsense. If that were true then why are so many Democrats/liberals in love with the man?

I'm not sure if that's accurate or the correct question. Liberals are pretty fed up with him. They feel betrayed. His popularity polling isn't that high so your little inflammatory use of the word "love" is out of touch. As for the popularity that he does have, it's probably because most of the country is centrist. Most people are pretty normal and for them there isn't much to bitch about. We've got oil coming out our ears, we're out of the recession, we left Iraq, real estate's rebounding and there's a lot of good news.

[Tgo01]

I'm not sure if that's accurate or the correct question. Liberals are pretty fed up with him. They feel betrayed. His popularity polling isn't that high so your little inflammatory use of the word "love" is out of touch.

Saying Democrats love Obama is being "inflammatory?"

Moving on...

According to the latest polls from Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/poll/politics.aspx?ref=b), Obama is still enjoying an 81% approval rating from Democrats.


As for the popularity that he does have, it's probably because most of the country is centrist.

Again according to Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/poll/166763/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx) around 40% of the US identifies as independent.


Most people are pretty normal and for them there isn't much to bitch about.

Not this again. Didn't I teach you a lesson the last time you said this?

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRce1WDr7YTnxJ59BsPuHZJT9tUmosoV PMteh4NItCfMZdz02WI

[Methais]

You always know how to make me laugh.

I've never understood this "Obama is really a Republican" nonsense. If that were true then why are so many Democrats/liberals in love with the man?

Because they're republicans too, obviously!

Wait, let me try that again..

Because they're republicans too, obviously!

[cwolff]

Saying Democrats love Obama is being "inflammatory?"

Moving on...

According to the latest polls from Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/poll/politics.aspx?ref=b), Obama is still enjoying an 81% approval rating from Democrats.



Again according to Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/poll/166763/record-high-americans-identify-independents.aspx) around 40% of the US identifies as independent.



Not this again. Didn't I teach you a lesson the last time you said this?

Ya, using the word love the way you did was smart ass. 81% doesn't mean love btw and the liberals are having a bit of a fit about Obama.

Party affiliation is different from political leanings so 40% independent is a meaningless stat so don't get too cocky. You have gotten some attention but you've failed to prove whatever point you're trying to make.

edit: I'll throw in some graphs to illustrate that Obama's not loved by his peeps.
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2013/12/FT-2013-12-16-02.png

http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2013/12/FT-2013-12-16-03.png

[Methais]

Party affiliation is different from political leanings so 40% independent is a meaningless stat

What's your opinion on independents who are simultaneously anti-insert-political-party?

[Warriorbird]

What's your opinion on independents who are simultaneously anti-insert-political-party?

If you want to ask if he likes you just be direct.

[Methais]

If you want to ask if he likes you just be direct.

Woosh.

[Warriorbird]

Woosh.

You're the exact same. Most PC politics folder posters who bash one party put down "independent" or "other" in that poll.

[Methais]

You're the exact same. Most PC politics folder posters who bash one party put down "independent" or "other" in that poll.

If you can link the thread I made to declare to the world that I'm not republican I'm just anti-democrat just before I listed myself as independent on a poll shortly after, I'll buy some truffles from Celephais (or whoever it is that does the truffles...WHO IS IT?!?!) and have them shipped to you.

[waywardgs]

If you can link the thread I made to declare to the world that I'm not republican I'm just anti-democrat just before I listed myself as independent on a poll shortly after, I'll buy some truffles from Celephais (or whoever it is that does the truffles...WHO IS IT?!?!) and have them shipped to you.

Kuyuk, and I haven't seen him post in a while. Did he fall into a vat of chocolate?

[Warriorbird]

Kuyuk, and I haven't seen him post in a while. Did he fall into a vat of chocolate?

I bet Google put him in here.

http://bwsailing.com/cc/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/google-barge.jpg

More machine than chef now, twisted and evil.

[waywardgs]

So sad.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxk844NInJ1r8q9x8o1_500.gif

[cwolff]

I gather that there's a question about my party affiliation and anti-gop post.

The post I put up does a good job of saying the things I feel. As you all know, I'm not enamored of the direction that the right has taken lately. IMO, they are going off the deep end and I think the reason why has a combination of factors. For one thing I believe the GOP's worried sick about their future. They are currently rudderless in a current that's leading the country away from some of their strengths. I also think the younger generation scares the hell out of them and they don't have an answer for minority voters. Although I won't say the party's racist, I do see that they are the beneficiaries of inherent racism especially in their continued albeit modified version of a southern strategy.

The current iteration of the GOP scares the hell out of me. I believe they are trying their best to take us back in time or at least keep us from making advances as quickly as we otherwise could and the only reason for this is to get elected. The truth is this: I don't even know what the Right represents anymore. They talk about small government but that really only applies to regulations and taxes. Other than that they want government up in all our business. They've spawned this little monster called the Tea-Party and have even managed to get a bunch of them elected. It's so bad that they now have to fight amongst themselves in an attempt to restrain the TP. It was a great ploy to capture market share while they pandered to the whack jobs but they don't know how to put that genie back in the bottle. Until the GOP comes to their senses and actually has message to take us into the future, they won't get my vote.

With all that being said, the #1 reason I'll vote against GOP candidates is because of SCOTUS. From the party that brought us the phrase "Activist Judge" they've managed to stack the most conservative Supreme Court that we've seen in at least my lifetime. NYT says it's the most conservative since the 1930's. Whatever the date is doesn't really matter. For my life as a U.S. citizen I do not want to see the court that move further right.

[Tgo01]

The current iteration of the GOP scares the hell out of me. I believe they are trying their best to take us back in time or at least keep us from making advances as quickly as we otherwise could and the only reason for this is to get elected.

That's like, the very definition of conservative.

[Latrinsorm]

Going back in time is fundamentalism. Conservatism is keeping things the same, which you could describe as taking us back (or forward) to the present. If you think of the political continuum as a function of change, conservatism is smack dab in the middle, radical is the fringe in any direction; could be negative (fundamentalist or regressive) could be positive (progressive).

[Tgo01]

Going back in time is fundamentalism. Conservatism is keeping things the same, which you could describe as taking us back (or forward) to the present. If you think of the political continuum as a function of change, conservatism is smack dab in the middle, radical is the fringe in any direction; could be negative (fundamentalist or regressive) could be positive (progressive).

I'm not sure I like your tone.

[cwolff]

Going back in time is fundamentalism. Conservatism is keeping things the same, which you could describe as taking us back (or forward) to the present. If you think of the political continuum as a function of change, conservatism is smack dab in the middle, radical is the fringe in any direction; could be negative (fundamentalist or regressive) could be positive (progressive).

I'd say it's a combination of both. They want a return to some ideal point in the past and in situations where that's not possible the right wants us to go as slow as possible.

You know there's a saying in business that I think applies here. "If you're not going forward, you're going backwards."

[waywardgs]

I'd say it's a combination of both. They want a return to some ideal point in the past and in situations where that's not possible the right wants us to go as slow as possible.

You know there's a saying in business that I think applies here. "If you're not going forward, you're going backwards."

I was just talking with a friend of mine about something similar yesterday. This searching for a past "ideal" is all built on nostalgia, and nostalgia is a dangerous platform for building policy. People want to look back to the "good times", forgetting that those times weren't actually all that good. Nostalgia is a powerful thing though.

[cwolff]

I was just talking with a friend of mine about something similar yesterday. This searching for a past "ideal" is all built on nostalgia, and nostalgia is a dangerous platform for building policy. People want to look back to the "good times", forgetting that those times weren't actually all that good. Nostalgia is a powerful thing though.

Was this friend Billy Joel? LOL

You can get just so much
From a good thing

You can linger too long
In your dreams

Say goodbye to the
Oldies but goodies

'Cause the good ole days weren't
Always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems

[waywardgs]

You know who else built policy on nostalgia? Hitler and Pol Pot.

[Atlanteax]

There is a very strong possibility that liberals are not as enthralled with Obama, because they realized something significant about him.

The realization that he is one extremely lousy underperforming president.

[Jarvan]

I gather that there's a question about my party affiliation and anti-gop post.

The post I put up does a good job of saying the things I feel. As you all know, I'm not enamored of the direction that the right has taken lately. IMO, they are going off the deep end and I think the reason why has a combination of factors. For one thing I believe the GOP's worried sick about their future. They are currently rudderless in a current that's leading the country away from some of their strengths. I also think the younger generation scares the hell out of them and they don't have an answer for minority voters. Although I won't say the party's racist, I do see that they are the beneficiaries of inherent racism especially in their continued albeit modified version of a southern strategy.

The current iteration of the GOP scares the hell out of me. I believe they are trying their best to take us back in time or at least keep us from making advances as quickly as we otherwise could and the only reason for this is to get elected. The truth is this: I don't even know what the Right represents anymore. They talk about small government but that really only applies to regulations and taxes. Other than that they want government up in all our business. They've spawned this little monster called the Tea-Party and have even managed to get a bunch of them elected. It's so bad that they now have to fight amongst themselves in an attempt to restrain the TP. It was a great ploy to capture market share while they pandered to the whack jobs but they don't know how to put that genie back in the bottle. Until the GOP comes to their senses and actually has message to take us into the future, they won't get my vote.

With all that being said, the #1 reason I'll vote against GOP candidates is because of SCOTUS. From the party that brought us the phrase "Activist Judge" they've managed to stack the most conservative Supreme Court that we've seen in at least my lifetime. NYT says it's the most conservative since the 1930's. Whatever the date is doesn't really matter. For my life as a U.S. citizen I do not want to see the court that move further right.

Instead you would rather see activist leftist judges on the SCOTUS and have extreme left rulings?

Ever notice that when Repubs appoint a judge, they don't always fall lockstep in the "right" side. Yet it's almost unheard of for a left judge to not side with the left. Let's not forget who really tried to "stack the court".

Do you know what the Left represents? If you are upset with the right, why are you not upset with the left? Both extremes are fucking insane. I don't see you posting about the nut job lefties though.

[Jarvan]

Ya, using the word love the way you did was smart ass. 81% doesn't mean love btw and the liberals are having a bit of a fit about Obama.

Party affiliation is different from political leanings so 40% independent is a meaningless stat so don't get too cocky. You have gotten some attention but you've failed to prove whatever point you're trying to make.

edit: I'll throw in some graphs to illustrate that Obama's not loved by his peeps.
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2013/12/FT-2013-12-16-02.png

http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2013/12/FT-2013-12-16-03.png

I think this is funny... Ok.. so 9% more of Bush's people felt more strongly.. 8% more of Obama's people approve. I would say Obama has more approval from his base then Bush. I mean for fuck's sake.. 90%!! of Liberals think he is doing a good job. 90 fucking percent. How exactly does that sound like they are upset with him?

Oh, so he didn't do this or that.. he couldn't. It's not that ~HE~ isn't liberal enough, it's that you CAN NOT PASS extremist legislation in the country. You can pass legislation that leans one way or another. But you, at this time, can not pass extremist stuff. And yes, Liberalism is the EXTREME of the Democratic party. Just like if Republicans control everything in 2016, they can't dismantle SS. Even if the Extreme parts of them wanted to. They would never get the votes from the moderate Repubs.

[Methais]

Kuyuk, and I haven't seen him post in a while. Did he fall into a vat of chocolate?

All I remember was that he posted a pic of his gf at the time in the boob thread and she had rather delicious looking hooters that were referred to as Kuyuk's hot dog holders.

And truffles.

EDIT:

Last Activity
03-24-2013 09:40 AM

:(

[cwolff]

I think this is funny... Ok.. so 9% more of Bush's people felt more strongly.. 8% more of Obama's people approve. I would say Obama has more approval from his base then Bush. I mean for fuck's sake.. 90%!! of Liberals think he is doing a good job. 90 fucking percent. How exactly does that sound like they are upset with him?

Oh, so he didn't do this or that.. he couldn't. It's not that ~HE~ isn't liberal enough, it's that you CAN NOT PASS extremist legislation in the country. You can pass legislation that leans one way or another. But you, at this time, can not pass extremist stuff. And yes, Liberalism is the EXTREME of the Democratic party. Just like if Republicans control everything in 2016, they can't dismantle SS. Even if the Extreme parts of them wanted to. They would never get the votes from the moderate Repubs.

The outstanding question is why you all don't like Obama. He's running a conservative Presidency.

[Jarvan]

The outstanding question is why you all don't like Obama. He's running a conservative Presidency.

Not really, he is running left center. His social agenda is very left. Point out his conservative legislation. Point out his conservative exec orders.

[cwolff]

Instead you would rather see activist leftist judges on the SCOTUS and have extreme left rulings?

Ever notice that when Repubs appoint a judge, they don't always fall lockstep in the "right" side. Yet it's almost unheard of for a left judge to not side with the left. Let's not forget who really tried to "stack the court".

Do you know what the Left represents? If you are upset with the right, why are you not upset with the left? Both extremes are fucking insane. I don't see you posting about the nut job lefties though.

I'm seeing a lot of hot air and no facts. "Ever Notice", "Both sides are bad". Fuck dude. You're wearing me out with this type of shit. I get it, you're a conservative and you have strong personal identification with the right, therefore when I say something bad about them you take it personally. I get it, I understand it, I don't respect it and I wish you would quit doing it.

[SHAFT]

If you can link the thread I made to declare to the world that I'm not republican I'm just anti-democrat just before I listed myself as independent on a poll shortly after, I'll buy some truffles from Celephais (or whoever it is that does the truffles...WHO IS IT?!?!) and have them shipped to you.

Kuyuk. I had him ship me some chocolate once and it was fantastic. Good dude.

[Parkbandit]

I've thought this for some time and it's one reason why I shake my head at all the "liberal" talk and anti-obama talk that gets thrown around by our conservative members. Found some information about it so I'm posting here.

The topics covered in this article are:

Taxing the Rich
Fracking
Abortion
Corporate Profits
The Deficit
Deportations
Defense Spending


Then there's this website titled Obama the Conservative (http://www.obamatheconservative.com/).



Overall I'm pretty happy with Obama and don't have many complaints. The NSA bullshit bothers me along with all the fracking and our inability to raise taxes back to previous levels in recent history. I'm pleased with foreign policy overall. To borrow a phrase from Fareed Zakaria, Obama's approach is minimalist. Ya, all in all I'm pleased with his Presidency but then again, I'm not really a liberal.

To me, the bottom line is that Obama is governing as a conservative and the rhetoric is just a lot of hot air. This is why the attacks from the right are increasingly out of touch. We've got Benghazi, IRS, Bundy Ranch/BLM, PPACA, a government shutdown and all kinds of other issues that leave most of the moderates scratching their head and wondering just what the hell is happening over there on the right.

Being a far left liberal.. you should probably think about how you don't have any complaints if Obama really was a Conservative, given that you have deemed yourself to be an "independent" that is "anti-Republican".

Just because there is a website of www.obamatheconservative.com (http://www.obamatheconservative.com) doesn't mean Obama is actually a conservative. That would be as foolish as thinking www.cwolffisintelligent.com (http://www.cwolffisintelligent.com) means you aren't dumb as a box of door knobs.

[Latrinsorm]

Not really, he is running left center. His social agenda is very left. Point out his conservative legislation. Point out his conservative exec orders.Is his social agenda very left, though? Pro gay marriage isn't a left thing anymore, it's a center thing. Anyway, you can look at three (http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2) different (http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008) charts (http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012) accompanied with reasoning to prove to yourself that Obama is a centrist.

[Ashliana]

Obama has governed as a centrist, centrist-right leader. There isn't really any way to objectively dispute this. His foreign policy has largely been neo-conservative--more drone strikes, continued Guantanamo, continued intervention in other countries' problems like Libya--precisely how the George W. Bush administration governed.

Domestic policy, the GOP has forced the conversation back to austerity (just like they did with Clinton) because they only care about federal spending when it isn't a Republican directing the government's money. Republicans never care about austerity when they hold the presidency, and in fact, the only GOP president who did--in most of our lifetimes, George H. W. Bush--was made a one-term president for daring to try and raise taxes to deal with the deficit.

So.. where's the left-wing agenda Obama supposedly has?

Is it Obamacare? By any objective standard, it's the most conservative solution to healthcare that any industrialized nation in the world has--the vast majority of them already have universal healthcare or single-payer healthcare, far more liberal than the mostly private monstrosity the USA has now.

Is it drug policy? We're only just beginning to see pushes for reform, and it's being pushed at the state level, NOT at the federal level--the DEA administrator Obama picked is a hard-line conservative who OPPOSES reform, and he hasn't fired her. Why? No explanation.

Is it immigration policy? Deportations remain at their highest level ever, and while bipartisan reform has passed the Senate, Boehner won't bring it up for a vote.

Is it financial reform? None of the banks were broken up, Wall St. profits are back to their previous levels (or higher), no one was ever prosecuted for their role in the stock market crash. Nothing prevents the too-big-to-fail banks from essentially gambling at taxpayer risk.

So.. by all means, point out how Obama is leading us to this so-called socialist nightmare.

[Parkbandit]

Why are the leftists on this board who are so enamored with the Obama Presidency trying to convince everyone that he's a conservative or centrist?

Hilarious.

[Ashliana]

Why are the leftists on this board who are so enamored with the Obama Presidency trying to convince everyone that he's a conservative or centrist?

Hilarious.

Probably because your political compass--and that of the other neo-cons on the board--is at WARNING! DERANGEMENT! levels.

(Some nice bold letters just for you).

You wouldn't know "centrist" or "center-right" if it bit you in the ass, as you bleed GOP propaganda-flavored Kool-Aid.

[Tgo01]

His foreign policy has largely been neo-conservative--more drone strikes, continued Guantanamo, continued intervention in other countries' problems like Libya--precisely how the George W. Bush administration governed.

Why are these things considered "largely neo conservative" policies? Because Bush did them?


Domestic policy, the GOP has forced the conversation back to austerity (just like they did with Clinton) because they only care about federal spending when it isn't a Republican directing the government's money. Republicans never care about austerity when they hold the presidency, and in fact, the only GOP president who did--in most of our lifetimes, George H. W. Bush--was made a one-term president for daring to try and raise taxes to deal with the deficit.

A) Both parties are guilty of this. B) That's not why Bush lost his reelection bid. Talk about revisionist history.


Is it Obamacare? By any objective standard, it's the most conservative solution to healthcare that any industrialized nation in the world has--the vast majority of them already have universal healthcare or single-payer healthcare, far more liberal than the mostly private monstrosity the USA has now.

I love how when we're trying to prove what a great president Obama is we talk about how Obamacare is so awesome and when we're trying to prove how Obama is a Republican we point towards Obamacare and refer to it as a "monstrosity."


Is it drug policy? We're only just beginning to see pushes for reform, and it's being pushed at the state level, NOT at the federal level--the DEA administrator Obama picked is a hard-line conservative who OPPOSES reform, and he hasn't fired her. Why? No explanation.

How is drug policy one way or the other prove he's a Republican? Both parties have had pretty much the same stance against drugs for decades now.


Is it immigration policy? Deportations remain at their highest level ever, and while bipartisan reform has passed the Senate, Boehner won't bring it up for a vote.

So Obama is a Republican because he's enforcing laws that the US has entrusted him to enforce?


Is it financial reform? None of the banks were broken up

Why...why would banks be broken up?


Wall St. profits are back to their previous levels (or higher)

How does this have anything to do with whether or not Obama is a Republican?


no one was ever prosecuted for their role in the stock market crash. Nothing prevents the too-big-to-fail banks from essentially gambling at taxpayer risk.

Are you just making shit up now to try and "prove" Obama is a Republican?

[Ashliana]

The GOP's platform has been shifting further and further hard-right since Obama was nominated the first time. There's basically nowhere further right to shift.

Romney's answer to immigration reform? Self-deportation. A.k.a., total, insane, far-right position that no one except the base agrees with.
Romney's answer to gay rights? Federal marriage amendment, gay marriage illegal US-wide. A.k.a., total, insane, far-right position that no one except the base agrees with.
Romney's answer to spending? Drastic entitlement cuts, INCREASED defense spending. A.k.a., total, insane, far-right position that no one except the base agrees with.

Obama's taken popular, centrist positions.. which is why he won. Look at each of Obama (or the Democrats') positions, and how far left they could shift.

Spoiler Alert: There's a lot of leftward room on the Democrats' side. Republicans oppose stuff that 80-90%+ of all Americans agree with (universal background checks, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, network neutrality, etc).
Spoiler Alert: There's virtually no rightward room on the Republican side because of the GOP's primary system and the Tea Party's effect on it.

[cwolff]

Spoiler Alert: There's virtually no rightward room on the Republican side because of the GOP's primary system and the Tea Party's effect on it.

That's the truth. Even in the primaries that the Tea Party's losing they've still forced their republican opponents to get all extra conservative.

Far as I can tell the Dems, at least Obama's appointees, are all about giving away net neutrality. It's pretty f'ed up and unexpected.

[Jarvan]

I'm seeing a lot of hot air and no facts. "Ever Notice", "Both sides are bad". Fuck dude. You're wearing me out with this type of shit. I get it, you're a conservative and you have strong personal identification with the right, therefore when I say something bad about them you take it personally. I get it, I understand it, I don't respect it and I wish you would quit doing it.

LOL. I read your posts for my daily dose of laughter. Thanks.

[cwolff]

LOL. I read your posts for my daily dose of laughter. Thanks.

This is you running away.

[Ashliana]

Why are these things considered "largely neo conservative" policies? Because Bush did them?

Because they exemplify the stated goals of the neo-conservative movement--W. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc. This is another semantic argument you're ineptly trying to make, just like when you tried to argue "blue state" vs "red state" definitions with me.

You want to disagree? Fine. You're right. You're always right, even when you're 100% full of shit. You're a retard.


A) Both parties are guilty of this. B) That's not why Bush lost his reelection bid. Talk about revisionist history.

Not solely, perhaps. It was a major reason he lost popularity with conservatives.


I love how when we're trying to prove what a great president Obama is we talk about how Obamacare is so awesome and when we're trying to prove how Obama is a Republican we point towards Obamacare and refer to it as a "monstrosity."

That's actually a fair point, but I'd say to you that Obamacare is a step in the right direction. A very small step, and it's a much more conservative setup than basically any other industrialized nation.


How is drug policy one way or the other prove he's a Republican? Both parties have had pretty much the same stance against drugs for decades now.

If you had to identify drug policy on a spectrum, how would you do it? Most people see hardline illegalization, hardline sentences as right-wing, and legalization, or lighter sentences as left-wing. The left-wing base clearly wants legalization and/or lighter sentences, and Obama has had no part in that, and his DEA chief is a hardline, prohibition-favoring conservative.

So what's your point here?


So Obama is a Republican because he's enforcing laws that the US has entrusted him to enforce?

This doesn't address anything. If the laws haven't changed, why is Obama enforcing laws at higher levels than Bush, in contrary to what the center/left-wing wants? (Answer: Budgets generally determine efficacy for enforcing laws), but also the fact the he hasn't effectively instructed his own people to stop harshly enforcing immigration law, the enforcement of which is always left up to the executive branch.


Why...why would banks be broken up?

Because they pose a systemic risk to the global economy? Because they're essentially in a position where they're gambling with the global economy and expecting the US taxpayer to bail them out?


How does this have anything to do with whether or not Obama is a Republican? Are you just making shit up now to try and "prove" Obama is a Republican?

Again, the left-wing wanted bankers held responsible--it's one of the reasons Elizabeth Warren is very popular. She's tough on Wall St., whereas Obama has proved himself a total tool of the finance industry. You haven't made a single point.. only proved, once again, that you're obnoxiously argumentative whenever I post, out of whatever deranged enjoyment you get from making terrible arguments and making yourself look astonishingly ignorant.

[Jarvan]

This is you running away.

Nah, You still haven't pointed out one piece of conservative legislation Obama has passed. Nor Executive order. Drone strikes are conservative. Neither is the NSA spying. Sticking our nose into other countries problems? Wait.. Democrats NEVER did that? None of those things are conservative.

It's funny.. you say you like Obama and what he has done, then say he is conservative, then say you hate conservatives.

So shouldn't you hate Obama? Make sense Cwolff. You can't claim he is the thing you hate, and claim you like him.

And yes, I do hate both parties, I do like some individual politicians, usually the more honest ones, even if I don't like some of their views. (There are VERY few)

As to why I defend republicans.. because you come on here bashing them every chance you get acting like they are the cause of all the worlds problems. Our foreign policy sucks ass, and they have nothing to do with that really. The Big O does. (Giant black robot that beats the shit out of other robots.. ok.. only the black part is right, everything else isn't even close).

As for cat boys talk about closing Gitmo. He couldn't. He wanted to, but realized he couldn't. It sucks, but he can't. HE WANTS to close it. He can't. That makes that a Liberal position he holds. It's just that, with most things uber left or right, it doesn't work. He WANTS uber left, he just realized after getting elected, that HE Can't Do It.

Hell, he wanted universal healthcare.. but he realized.. he can't do it.

But.. I guess what you are really saying is.. Obama is a republican, and that's why you voted for him.

[Parkbandit]

Probably because your political compass--and that of the other neo-cons on the board--is at WARNING! DERANGEMENT! levels.

(Some nice bold letters just for you).

You wouldn't know "centrist" or "center-right" if it bit you in the ass, as you bleed GOP propaganda-flavored Kool-Aid.

You are FAR from a "centrist" "guy".. yet you adore Obama. If he is such a conservative, how do you love him so much and continue to support his crazy right wing agenda?

[Jarvan]

That's actually a fair point, but I'd say to you that Obamacare is a step in the right direction. A very small step, and it's a much more conservative setup than basically any other industrialized nation.

Anything not universal healthcare would be more conservative then universal healthcare. So your response is idiotic.


If you had to identify drug policy on a spectrum, how would you do it? Most people see hardline illegalization, hardline sentences as right-wing, and legalization, or lighter sentences as left-wing. The left-wing base clearly wants legalization and/or lighter sentences, and Obama has had no part in that, and his DEA chief is a hardline, prohibition-favoring conservative.

Yet he doesn't allow or order the DEA to crack down on ILLEGAL drug possession, selling, and use in CO and WA. Hmmmmmm.


This doesn't address anything. If the laws haven't changed, why is Obama enforcing laws at higher levels than Bush, in contrary to what the center/left-wing wants? (Answer: Budgets generally determine efficacy for enforcing laws), but also the fact the he hasn't effectively instructed his own people to stop harshly enforcing immigration law, the enforcement of which is always left up to the executive branch.

He isn't enforcing them higher at all and you know this retard. They changed the way they report the numbers. (They now include the people stopped at the border or within 50 miles of the border as people deported, they never did that before)

Not to mention the recent news that ICE released 36,000 convicted CRIMINALS recently. Including hundreds of murdered, rapists and drunk drivers. Yup, Obama is cracking the fuck down.



Because they pose a systemic risk to the global economy? Because they're essentially in a position where they're gambling with the global economy and expecting the US taxpayer to bail them out?

Big Banks Suck. hen again, I hate all banks. Of course it will be hard for him to break up those banks.. what with them giving him millions in campaign contributions.


Again, the left-wing wanted bankers held responsible--it's one of the reasons Elizabeth Warren is very popular. She's tough on Wall St., whereas Obama has proved himself a total tool of the finance industry. You haven't made a single point.. only proved, once again, that you're obnoxiously argumentative whenever I post, out of whatever deranged enjoyment you get from making terrible arguments and making yourself look astonishingly ignorant.

Warren wouldn't send anyone to jail either. Because really, they can't. You fuck with the banks, you don't get elected/re-elected. They spout the shit, but they don't ever really try to do it.

Also.. I guess this makes you a conservative as well, since I remember you saying Obama is doing a bang up job.

[cwolff]

Nah, You still haven't pointed out one piece of conservative legislation Obama has passed. Nor Executive order. Drone strikes are conservative. Neither is the NSA spying. Sticking our nose into other countries problems? Wait.. Democrats NEVER did that? None of those things are conservative.

It's funny.. you say you like Obama and what he has done, then say he is conservative, then say you hate conservatives.

So shouldn't you hate Obama? Make sense Cwolff. You can't claim he is the thing you hate, and claim you like him.

And yes, I do hate both parties, I do like some individual politicians, usually the more honest ones, even if I don't like some of their views. (There are VERY few)

As to why I defend republicans.. because you come on here bashing them every chance you get acting like they are the cause of all the worlds problems. Our foreign policy sucks ass, and they have nothing to do with that really. The Big O does. (Giant black robot that beats the shit out of other robots.. ok.. only the black part is right, everything else isn't even close).

As for cat boys talk about closing Gitmo. He couldn't. He wanted to, but realized he couldn't. It sucks, but he can't. HE WANTS to close it. He can't. That makes that a Liberal position he holds. It's just that, with most things uber left or right, it doesn't work. He WANTS uber left, he just realized after getting elected, that HE Can't Do It.

Hell, he wanted universal healthcare.. but he realized.. he can't do it.

But.. I guess what you are really saying is.. Obama is a republican, and that's why you voted for him.

If you want my take or opinion on Obama as a conservative read post #1.

While you're doing that I'll take a second to point out that you just lied about this "hate conservatives" business. I know that your personal feelings are very very close to the surface and you get emotional. The fact is, I don't hate conservatives. The GOP today, is not conservative. They've morphed into something else and they are out of control.

[cwolff]

Anything not universal healthcare would be more conservative then universal healthcare. So your response is idiotic.



Yet he doesn't allow or order the DEA to crack down on ILLEGAL drug possession, selling, and use in CO and WA. Hmmmmmm.



He isn't enforcing them higher at all and you know this retard. They changed the way they report the numbers. (They now include the people stopped at the border or within 50 miles of the border as people deported, they never did that before)

Not to mention the recent news that ICE released 36,000 convicted CRIMINALS recently. Including hundreds of murdered, rapists and drunk drivers. Yup, Obama is cracking the fuck down.




Big Banks Suck. hen again, I hate all banks. Of course it will be hard for him to break up those banks.. what with them giving him millions in campaign contributions.



Warren wouldn't send anyone to jail either. Because really, they can't. You fuck with the banks, you don't get elected/re-elected. They spout the shit, but they don't ever really try to do it.

Also.. I guess this makes you a conservative as well, since I remember you saying Obama is doing a bang up job.

My God you get emotional about this shit. Defend Defend Defend. What the fuck are you so upset about? Did you even read the links in the first post that started this thread or did you just go on the warpath assuming that you were under attack?

[Jarvan]

If you want my take or opinion on Obama as a conservative read post #1.

While you're doing that I'll take a second to point out that you just lied about this "hate conservatives" business. I know that your personal feelings are very very close to the surface and you get emotional. The fact is, I don't hate conservatives. The GOP today, is not conservative. They've morphed into something else and they are out of control.

So you know my feelings? Not very bright are you?

Seriously dude, I know you just like to troll and fuck with people, but you need better material.

[Jarvan]

My God you get emotional about this shit. Defend Defend Defend. What the fuck are you so upset about? Did you even read the links in the first post that started this thread or did you just go on the warpath assuming that you were under attack?

Attack attack attack. Seriously dude, I know you just like to attack people. But do you even read the stuff you write?

And the article is from ESQUIRE Magazine.

It would have more sway if MAD printed it.

It's a bullshit article, which is all you need I guess to make a post about.

[Jarvan]

As for deportations...

The document reveals that the 36,007 convicted criminal aliens freed from ICE custody in many instances had multiple convictions. Among them, the 36,007 had nearly 88,000 convictions, including:

193 homicide convictions (including one willful killing of a public official with gun)

426 sexual assault convictions

303 kidnapping convictions

1,075 aggravated assault convictions

1,160 stolen vehicle convictions

9,187 dangerous drug convictions

16,070 drunk or drugged driving convictions

303 flight escape convictions


http://cis.org/ICE-Document-Details-36000-Criminal-Aliens-Release-in-2013

Obama is on the Job!! Never fear!

[cwolff]

Attack attack attack. Seriously dude, I know you just like to attack people. But do you even read the stuff you write?

And the article is from ESQUIRE Magazine.

It would have more sway if MAD printed it.

It's a bullshit article, which is all you need I guess to make a post about.

I see a pattern here. It's a combination of confirmation bias and backfire effect. I bet that you believe Obama is even more liberal now than before I started this thread.

[Tgo01]

Because they exemplify the stated goals of the neo-conservative movement--W. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.

Oh. So you're just making shit up then?


You're right. You're always right

I accept your apology.


Not solely, perhaps. It was a major reason he lost popularity with conservatives.

Not not solely, not anything. Ross Perot, baby. Ross Perot.


Most people see hardline illegalization, hardline sentences as right-wing, and legalization, or lighter sentences as left-wing.

Yet both parties have pretty much kept the status quo for decades now.


If the laws haven't changed, why is Obama enforcing laws at higher levels than Bush

What? You either enforce the laws or you don't. There is no "enforcing at higher levels." Why are more people being deported under Obama? There's speculation that Obama is fudging the numbers, a possibility. It's also possible more people are trying to cross the border now than before. It's also possible with advances in technology, say, (universal) surveillance in particular, that we're catching more people at the border.

The idea that, what, Bush told the border agents to back off and not try as hard to catch people then Obama stepped in and ordered everyone to work 50 hours of mandatory overtime every week? Is that the type of stuff you mean when you say Obama is enforcing laws at higher levels than Bush?


Because they pose a systemic risk to the global economy? Because they're essentially in a position where they're gambling with the global economy and expecting the US taxpayer to bail them out?

Who says this type of stuff?

[Ashliana]

You are FAR from a "centrist" "guy".. yet you adore Obama. If he is such a conservative, how do you love him so much and continue to support his crazy right wing agenda?

Maybe you should re-read what I said. I never said "I am centrist." I said Obama's been centrist or center-right. And again, I never said I adore Obama. Compared to the Republicans, however, there's no contest. Obama is essentially Bush 2.0, and the contemporary Republicans, like you, are off in outer-space.



Anything not universal healthcare would be more conservative then universal healthcare. So your response is idiotic.

Your response doesn't mean anything. When averaged with every other first-world nation on the planet, the USA has an extremely conservative system. Indisputable.


Yet he doesn't allow or order the DEA to crack down on ILLEGAL drug possession, selling, and use in CO and WA. Hmmmmmm.

The DEA continues to pursue drug crimes, including marijuana. They're just not--at the moment--cracking down on businesses that have been legalized at the state level. Again, Obama's taken a conservative route, and not done with the liberal base (which in fact shares the viewpoint with the political center now) that marijuana should be legalized and taxed like tobacco.


He isn't enforcing them higher at all and you know this retard. They changed the way they report the numbers. (They now include the people stopped at the border or within 50 miles of the border as people deported, they never did that before)

Not to mention the recent news that ICE released 36,000 convicted CRIMINALS recently. Including hundreds of murdered, rapists and drunk drivers. Yup, Obama is cracking the fuck down.

You, and a smattering of other far-right, deluded partisans have characterized it as such. The GOP, at large, doesn't even make your argument. The "battlefield" has changed; how you view it is up to you.


ig Banks Suck. hen again, I hate all banks. Of course it will be hard for him to break up those banks.. what with them giving him millions in campaign contributions.

Which was my point. Obama's in bed with Wall St. I'm not the one defending Obama.


Warren wouldn't send anyone to jail either. Because really, they can't. You fuck with the banks, you don't get elected/re-elected. They spout the shit, but they don't ever really try to do it.

Also.. I guess this makes you a conservative as well, since I remember you saying Obama is doing a bang up job.

Oh, did I? Where? By any objective measure, he's better than, say, Romney would have been. Overall, though, Obama's been a disappointment, through-and-through. He's tepid, indecisive, and the Democrats wasted the very, very small window of opportunity they had when he was first elected.

[Ashliana]

Oh. So you're just making shit up then? I accept your apology.

You're an idiot. You apparently not knowing what "neo-conservative" is, or why Obama's foreign policy is a continuation of basically all of Bush's policies, is on you. Not me. Your ignorance. Pure and simple. Dipshit.


Not not solely, not anything. Ross Perot, baby. Ross Perot.

Again, ignorance. Perot got zero electoral votes, and the anger that caused him to run in the first place, largely, was the right's knee-jerk reaction against H. W. raising taxes, breaking his sacrosanct promise to Grover Norquist.


Yet both parties have pretty much kept the status quo for decades now.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the point at hand, which is that the majority wants to see marijuana legalized and taxed like tobacco--not just the hard left--and that Obama continues to employ a hardline conservative as DEA chief, and has opted to not free up the banks to deal with the businesses cropping up to legally sell marijuana. Obama is continuing a conservative policy, just not the hardest right possible policy, which seems to be all that you, or Jarvan, or Parkbandit, are capable of seeing, after years of replacing your blood with GOP Kool-Aid.


What? You either enforce the laws or you don't. There is no "enforcing at higher levels." Why are more people being deported under Obama? There's speculation that Obama is fudging the numbers, a possibility. It's also possible more people are trying to cross the border now than before. It's also possible with advances in technology, say, (universal) surveillance in particular, that we're catching more people at the border.

The idea that, what, Bush told the border agents to back off and not try as hard to catch people then Obama stepped in and ordered everyone to work 50 hours of mandatory overtime every week? Is that the type of stuff you mean when you say Obama is enforcing laws at higher levels than Bush?

Again, hilarious ignorance of how the American system of government works. How is enforcement measured? (One such method is number of deportations, which has never been higher). How is enforcement influenced? (Funding).

Congress passing a law, but not appropriating money, doesn't accomplish anything. Congress passed a law requiring the border fence be built, but provided next to money to build it. Is Obama "not enforcing" the law? No. Congress didn't fund it, so it isn't being made.



Who says this type of stuff?

This is just dumb. Lots of people have discussed the enormous risk that Wall St. poses to the global economy--the effects of which we're still suffering, and we've made almost no efforts to prevent it from happening again, because the GOP and the Democrats alike are fully in their pockets.

[Jeril]

Overall, though, Obama's been a disappointment, through-and-through. He's tepid, indecisive, and the Democrats wasted the very, very small window of opportunity they had when he was first elected.

Something I can agree with.

[Methais]

I'm seeing a lot of hot air and no facts.


The outstanding question is why you all don't like Obama. He's running a conservative Presidency.

.

[Latrinsorm]

Why are the leftists on this board who are so enamored with the Obama Presidency trying to convince everyone that he's a conservative or centrist?

Hilarious.I often try to convince people of facts. You could say this begs the question of why I do that in general when I have proven to be so inept at it, but I'd report you so fast your head would spin.
It's funny.. you say you like Obama and what he has done, then say he is conservative, then say you hate conservatives.Your terminology is a little loose. cwolff has described himself as anti-Republican: this in no way demonstrates a position on conservatives. cwolff has also decried the actions of people who call themselves conservatives: this in no way demonstrates a position on conservatives.
Nah, You still haven't pointed out one piece of conservative legislation Obama has passed. Nor Executive order. Drone strikes are conservative. Neither is the NSA spying. Sticking our nose into other countries problems? Wait.. Democrats NEVER did that? None of those things are conservative.I think you will find your definition is an unpopular one. For the sake of argument, what would you say IS a conservative thing to do?
Yet both parties have pretty much kept the status quo for decades now.Almost as if both parties are centrist in practice, eh? :)

[Delcry]

Overall, though, Obama's been a disappointment, through-and-through. He's tepid, indecisive, and the Democrats wasted the very, very small window of opportunity they had when he was first elected.

I agree. We squandered a perfect opportunity to transform this country into something that we could finally be proud of. President Obama was wrong to include the Republicans in his movement because all they did was stall and say no.

Change is hard for old white people to get understand.

[Atlanteax]

The GOP's platform has been shifting further and further hard-right since Obama was nominated the first time. There's basically nowhere further right to shift.

Romney's answer to immigration reform? Self-deportation. A.k.a., total, insane, far-right position that no one except the base agrees with.
Romney's answer to gay rights? Federal marriage amendment, gay marriage illegal US-wide. A.k.a., total, insane, far-right position that no one except the base agrees with.
Romney's answer to spending? Drastic entitlement cuts, INCREASED defense spending. A.k.a., total, insane, far-right position that no one except the base agrees with.

Obama's taken popular, centrist positions.. which is why he won. Look at each of Obama (or the Democrats') positions, and how far left they could shift.

Spoiler Alert: There's a lot of leftward room on the Democrats' side. Republicans oppose stuff that 80-90%+ of all Americans agree with (universal background checks, the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, network neutrality, etc).
Spoiler Alert: There's virtually no rightward room on the Republican side because of the GOP's primary system and the Tea Party's effect on it.

Romney answers seem entirely reasonable. I think you are confusing your own personal hysteria-level of disagreement with something being an insane idea/concept.

Single-payer healthcare system = a total insane far-left position that no one except the base agrees with.

[cwolff]

Good for Barrack. Testify Brother! Tell it like it is.


“So the problem…is not that the Democrats are overly ideological — because the truth of the matter is, is that the Democrats in Congress have consistently been willing to compromise and reach out to the other side. There are no radical proposals coming out from the left. When we talk about climate change, we talk about how do we incentivize through the market greater investment in clean energy. When we talk about immigration reform there’s no wild-eyed romanticism. We say we’re going to be tough on the borders, but let’s also make sure that the system works to allow families to stay together…

“When we talk about taxes we don’t say we’re going to have rates in the 70 percent or 90 percent when it comes to income like existed here 50, 60 years ago. We say let’s just make sure that those of us who have been incredibly blessed by this country are giving back to kids so that they’re getting a good start in life, so that they get early childhood education…Health care — we didn’t suddenly impose some wild, crazy system. All we said was let’s make sure everybody has insurance. And this made the other side go nuts — the simple idea that in the wealthiest nation on Earth, nobody should go bankrupt because somebody in their family gets sick, working within a private system.

“So when you hear a false equivalence that somehow, well, Congress is just broken, it’s not true. What’s broken right now is a Republican Party that repeatedly says no to proven, time-tested strategies to grow the economy, create more jobs, ensure fairness, open up opportunity to all people.”

[Tgo01]

the simple idea that in the wealthiest nation on Earth, nobody should go bankrupt because somebody in their family gets sick, working within a private system.

So Obama admits he has no fucking clue what he's talking about?

This man thinks no one is ever going to file for bankruptcy due to medical reasons ever again?

I don't even know what to say at this point. He flat out admits he's a moron and here comes cwolff singing his praises because the man says Republicans are to blame for everything.