What the fuck is happening is Nevada?

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

LAS VEGAS (CBS Las Vegas/AP) — Nevada’s governor is criticizing a federal cattle roundup and what he calls “intimidation” in a dispute with a rancher who claims longstanding grazing rights on open range outside Las Vegas.
Federal Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service officials didn’t immediately respond Wednesday to Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval’s call for the BLM to “reconsider its approach.”
Sandoval says he’s most offended that federal officials have tried to corral people protesting the roundup into a “First Amendment area.”
Federal officials say 277 cows have been rounded up since Saturday from a 1,200-square-mile area that it has closed to the public for the operation about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.
The BLM says Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy has allowed his cattle to trespass and graze for decades in the area.
Bundy, a descendant of Mormons who settled in Bunkerville more than 140 years ago, claims an inherent right to graze the area and casts the conflict as a states’ rights issue. He said he doesn’t recognize federal authority on land that he insists belongs to Nevada. His dispute with the government dates to 1993, when land managers cited concern for the federally protected desert tortoise and capped Bundy’s herd at 150 animals on his 158,666-acre Bunkerville allotment of rangeland. Bundy protested by withholding his monthly grazing fees and kept using the range. The BLM canceled his grazing permit in 1994. A federal court in 1998 ordered him to remove the animals, and federal authorities in 1999 officially closed the Bunkerville allotment to cattle. Conservationists say the cows eat scarce forage needed by wildlife including the tortoise and horses.
Federal officials tried to round up Bundy’s livestock two years ago, but he refused to budge. Since then, he has lost two federal court rulings — and a judge last October prohibited him from physically interfering with any seizure or roundup operation. “Wake up America,” Bailey Bundy Logue told KSL-TV. “Look what our ancestors fought for and we need to stand up for that. We need to realize what’s happening. They are taking everything away from us. This isn’t only about one family. This is about everyone’s family. This is martial law and it’s in America and so what are you going to do to have it stay out of America?”
In a statement called what the Bundys have been doing “unfair.” “Cattle have been in trespass on public lands in Southern Nevada for more than two decades. This is unfair to the thousands of other ranchers who graze livestock in compliance with federal laws and regulations throughout the west,” the statement reads. “The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and the National Park Service (NPS) have made repeated attempts to resolve this matter administratively and judicially.”

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/09/nevada-governor-calls-federal-cattle-roundup-intimidation/

SANDOVAL STATEMENT ON BLM ROUNDUP
Contact: Tyler Klimas
(775) 684-5667
6379
Governor Brian Sandoval made the following statement today:
“Due to the roundup by the BLM, my office has received numerous complaints of BLM misconduct, road closures and other disturbances. I have recently met with state legislators, county officials and concerned citizens to listen to their concerns. I have expressed those concerns directly to the BLM.”
“Most disturbing to me is the BLM’s establishment of a ‘First Amendment Area’ that tramples upon Nevadans’ fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution. To that end, I have advised the BLM that such conduct is offensive to me and countless others and that the ‘First Amendment Area’ should be dismantled immediately. No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans. The BLM needs to reconsider its approach to this matter and act accordingly.”

[Wrathbringer]

first amendment area LOLOLOLOL :foshizzle:

[cwolff]

We have those in CO too. They put up chain link fencing in a designated area and the protestors have to stay inside the fenced off area or risk arrest.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuzT67Ekles&feature=youtu.be

[Tgo01]

Legalize it!

[Taernath]

http://static.neatorama.com/images/2006-07/william-wallace-braveheart-statue-caged.jpg

[cwolff]

http://static.neatorama.com/images/2006-07/william-wallace-braveheart-statue-caged.jpg

HAHAHA! That's awesome.

[Wrathbringer]

We have those in CO too. They put up chain link fencing in a designated area and the protestors have to stay inside the fenced off area or risk arrest.

To balance that, every state should have a 2nd amendment tower- I mean- "area" as well, with a line of sight to the arresters. That way they can have some risk too.

[cwolff]

To balance that, every state should have a 2nd amendment tower- I mean- "area" as well, with a line of sight to the arresters. That way they can have some risk too.

I like it. Add a little spice to life kind of thing.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Guerilla Media Network
about an hour ago
The cattle are dying and being slaughtered and buried in the desert by federal Agents...
The protesters tried to stop a convoy of trucks and backhoes coming off of the PRIVATE
land owned by the Bundy's, so they could be inspected by a sheriff ...
The agents then started tazing the protesters and throwing women to the ground ... Video will be up soon ....

[Tgo01]

Obama! Obama! Obama!

[Back]

FEMA camps are right around the corner. Better stock up on gold, canned goods, and ammo.

[cwolff]

This guy said he's going to fight it out with the feds too. He's fixin' to get Wacoed or Ruby Ridged.

[Latrinsorm]

White people need to get a grip, jeez. "Martial law"? Really?

[Moonwitch]

FEMA camps are right around the corner. Better stock up on gold, canned goods, and ammo.

Those are already in Texas.

[waywardgs]

So some asshole wants to graze his cattle on land that doesn't belong to him? This is trampling his freedom how, exactly?

[Jarvan]

We have those in CO too. They put up chain link fencing in a designated area and the protestors have to stay inside the fenced off area or risk arrest.

Funny... didn't work for Occupy Wall Street.

[Jarvan]

So some asshole wants to graze his cattle on land that doesn't belong to him? This is trampling his freedom how, exactly?

Well, from what it said, it's state land, not federal land. So what the fed has to do with it may be the issue.

[cwolff]

Funny... didn't work for Occupy Wall Street.

It's very difficult to break up a big protest but they are putting laws in place in case of another one. After Occupy Denver passed a law against urban camping. Next group that wants to overnight Civic Center park has a shiny new law they can be arrested over.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

It's very difficult to break up a big protest but they are putting laws in place in case of another one. After Occupy Denver passed a law against urban camping. Next group that wants to overnight Civic Center park has a shiny new law they can be arrested over.

What happened with the return of Occupy? It was supposed to be #waveofaction all up in this bitch after the 4th of April. They suck now I guess.

[cwolff]

Well, from what it said, it's state land, not federal land. So what the fed has to do with it may be the issue.

I believe it's BLM land. Nevada is like 80% BLM. The rule went into effect in 93. They wanted him to pay a fee for land use. He refused to pay and eventually in 98 they revoked his permit. He's been running his cattle there this whole time though. That's why they're finally getting confiscate or put down.

[cwolff]

What happened with the return of Occupy? It was supposed to be #waveofaction all up in this bitch after the 4th of April. They suck now I guess.

Maybe they just got too excited for 420 and couldn't be bothered to have two events in April.

I didn't even hear about this other protest. Whatever it was it sure made no splash.

[Laviticas]

White people need to get a grip, jeez. "Martial law"? Really?

I hear the south side of Chicago is a wonderful vacation destination.

[Back]

I didn't even hear about this other protest. Whatever it was it sure made no splash.

You're not reading the right fear mongering end-of-America literature.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

His July 2013 court order basically says he'sfuckking wrongand now he's paying the price. There was just a guy on the radio calling for a war on the BLM trying to round up militias and shit... The only thing I find disturbing is that there are more resources for this dipshit rancher than Benghazi :P

[RagingThrak]

He said he doesn’t recognize federal authority

That'll get him far.

[Laviticas]

Liberal: the world is over populated.
Rancher: let my cows graze this land to produce more food.
Liberal: but the turtles

::head desk::

[Tgo01]

The only thing I find disturbing is that there are more resources for this dipshit rancher than Benghazi :P

No one cares about the fucking turtles in Libya.

[Stanley Burrell]

No one cares about the fucking turtles in Libya.

F U! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNry4PE93Y)

This also makes me remember to post an amazing song in the music thread. Hold up.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Funtimes.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJ6H9vlEDA&app=desktop

[waywardgs]

Funtimes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJ6H9vlEDA

Those people are dipshits.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Those people are dipshits.

I completely agree.

[Taernath]

Those people are dipshits.

I always wonder about the people who just show up and start protesting trying to make trouble. Do they have jobs? A family? I can think of a lot more productive things to do than standing out in the desert getting tased.

LOL @ "enemy aggressors!" though

[Tgo01]

Funtimes.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhJ6H9vlEDA&app=desktop

Who knew there were so many rednecks in Nevada.

[TheEschaton]

I mean, First Amendment zones are common practice for most protests. The Fort Benning protests have designated areas to protest in, and if you cross the line, you're automatically arrested for trespassing. Us libs are used to First amendment zones in our protests, the Amendment doesn't give you the right to assemble with no restrictions. ;)

But of course, these are the same group of people who think the 2nd means carte blanche for owning any gun ever, so it's no wonder they can't understand nuance in terms of the First, either.

[Taernath]

Who knew there were so many rednecks in Nevada.

There are significant portions in California, Oregon, and Washington too.

[Back]

I remember the first time I heard about "First Amendment Zones" was during the Bush administration. I think it was the GOP convention in 2003.

[Atlanteax]

I remember the first time I heard about "First Amendment Zones" was during the Bush administration. I think it was the GOP convention in 2003.

No idea when it started, but Obama shares blame in continuing the policy?

[Atlanteax]

Funtimes.

(video of redneck protestors)

Welp, in most other countries, these protestors would just be beaten/jailed.

Editted to add... has anyone read the comments?!?!?!

Overwhelmingly calling for the Federal Agents to be attacked/etc. =/

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Welp, in most other countries, these protestors would just be beaten/jailed.

Editted to add... has anyone read the comments?!?!?!

Overwhelmingly calling for the Federal Agents to be attacked/etc. =/

I read some of them. Yesterday on the way home one of these yahoos was on the radio, a major station, and he was calling for every militia and concerned citizen to grab their guns and go put "boots on the ground," out there before the Host could shut him up to learn more about the situation the dude ended his call. He was quite angry over this overblown trespassing charge. People all over pay for permits to graze their animals. It's as low as $1.35 per head for a month in some places. This entire situation is ridiculous. But as an agent of Chaos, I'm enjoying the show.

[AnticorRifling]

But he was cool taking the land from the Indians so he could graze his cattle right? It's only an issue when it happens to him, got it.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

But he was cool taking the land from the Indians so he could graze his cattle right? It's only an issue when it happens to him, got it.

But dude, we gave them casinos!!!

[AnticorRifling]

And blankets, lots of free blankets.

[waywardgs]

I read some of them. Yesterday on the way home one of these yahoos was on the radio, a major station, and he was calling for every militia and concerned citizen to grab their guns and go put "boots on the ground," out there before the Host could shut him up to learn more about the situation the dude ended his call. He was quite angry over this overblown trespassing charge. People all over pay for permits to graze their animals. It's as low as $1.35 per head for a month in some places. This entire situation is ridiculous. But as an agent of Chaos, I'm enjoying the show.

Wouldn't this be construed as making terroristic threats or some such thing?

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Wouldn't this be construed as making terroristic threats or some such thing?

That was my first guess as well. But before anything could happen or be done, the guy hung up. I mean take a look at the comments on any number of stories lately and tons of people are calling for this kind of reaction and activity to take place over this, that, or the other thing. I'm guessing that there is too much of it to deal with really.

[Tenlaar]

I started that video, heard the guy ask to speak to a supervisor like he's unhappy with his breakfast burrito, and my brain went "AAAAAHHHHHHH NOPE NOPE NOPE!" Think about how annoying you have to be for somebody who instantly finds you annoying to not be able to watch to see if you get tasered. Mind-bogglingly annoying.

[Tgo01]

I liked the part where the cop with the dog told the skinny bitch to back up or she would get bit then this other chick jumps in and says "Don't you dare threaten a pregnant woman! I'm pregnant and you better not let that dog go!"

Like...what? He didn't threaten you, moron.

But I gotta admit that's the worse police footage from Nevada I have ever seen. This one was much more entertaining:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gs2VYL-3RI

[Tisket]

Fucking BLM goons.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

LAS VEGAS (CBS Las Vegas/AP) — Militia groups are rallying behind a rancher whose cattle are being seized by the federal government.
The Las Vegas Review-Journal reports that two militia members from Montana and one from Utah have arrived at Cliven Bundy’s ranch.
“We need to be the barrier between the oppressed and the tyrants,” Ryan Payne of the West Mountain Rangers told the Review-Journal. “Expect to see a band of soldiers.”
Payne said that militias from New Hampshire, Texas and Florida are likely to join and stand with Bundy and stay at his ranch.
“They all tell me they are in the process of mobilizing as we speak,” Payne told the Review-Journal, adding that hundreds of militia members are expected.

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10/expect-to-see-a-band-of-soldiers-militia-members-arrive-at-nevada-ranch/

Now we're talkin... haha

[waywardgs]

This will not end well for them.

[Tenlaar]

I hope all of the "militia" people really do stand and fight. And then, every time somebody makes a comment about needing their guns to protect themselves from a tyrannical government, we can point at them and say "You sure that's gonna work out for you, pal?"

[Laviticas]

One problem with the Indian anology, it was the federal government confiscating land and not some Podunk rancher. And here you supporting the very devil that caused your Indian eradication.

::head desk::

[Johnny Five]

Cows are expensive as fuck, I know that. A good bull can sell for 3500 - over 10k. And 277 even with a lowball of 500-1000 per head is ALOT of bling. Anyone would be pissed.

Side note: Why does the government own land and making a profit off it? :(

[Laviticas]

Cows are expensive as fuck, I know that. A good bull can sell for 3500 - over 10k. And 277 even with a lowball of 500-1000 per head is ALOT of bling. Anyone would be pissed.

Side note: Why does the government own land and making a profit off it? :(

Breeder bulls can go for 100's of thousands. Walking sperm banks

[Johnny Five]

While true, I was stalking about your standard good-average bull, not this....

http://www.elfwood.com/art/z/i/zimbleman/apisbull_warm_color.jpg

[cwolff]

Cows are expensive as fuck, I know that. A good bull can sell for 3500 - over 10k. And 277 even with a lowball of 500-1000 per head is ALOT of bling. Anyone would be pissed.

Side note: Why does the government own land and making a profit off it? :(

That's not the Government's profit. You own a piece of it. You wouldn't let someone start a business in your yard and not pay for it. It's the same with public land. The people own it and there are laws in place that let people use it. They just have to pay a fee for the usage.

[Johnny Five]

Public land is a farce.

[waywardgs]

Public land is a farce.

Damn those national parks! We should be strip mining for god sake!

[cwolff]

Public land is a farce.


Damn those national parks! We should be strip mining for god sake!

Exactly. It's a crying shame we don't have a King who can own all the land that you and I don't. Things would be much better if Yellowstone were an industrial park. Friggin' liberals standing the way of progress.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Public land is a farce.

Word on the street now is that there is fracking going on somewhere in the vicinity of where his cows have been going and the BLM is actually stepping in because the fracking is being disrupted by his cows somehow.

RENO, Nev. (AP) — Buyers snapped up 29 federal land leases totaling more than 56 square miles in a northeastern Nevada area.
This could become the state's first oil shale fracking site.
U.S. Bureau of Land Management geologist Lorenzo Trimble tells the Las Vegas Review-Journal the Elko County oil and gas leases sold Tuesday for $1.27 million to six different companies.
The auction took place in Reno. The leases are near where Houston-based Noble Energy Inc. wants to drill for oil and natural gas on 40,000 acres of public and private land near the town of Wells.
The Review-Journal reports the project would be the first in Nevada to use hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, to extract oil and gas from shale deposits.
The BLM is conducting an environmental review of Noble's proposal.

[Laviticas]

If we were not so concerned about some damn turtle, spotted owls, the polka dot yard mouse.....we could open these lands to private development and resource exploration. But it's best to stick to claims of over population and the extinction of animals that are to stupid in the eyes of a liberal to find a new home.

[Tisket]

Public land encompasses so much more than national parks. Let's take Alaska for instance. Of the total area of the state, the government (state and federal) owns 89 percent. That's the extreme end but the land owned by the government in other states far exceeds that set aside for national parks.

[Tisket]

This is interesting to me so I'm pasting this link for later perusal since I have to go to work now:

http://www.nrcm.org/documents/publiclandownership.pdf

[Warriorbird]

Word on the street now is that there is fracking going on somewhere in the vicinity of where his cows have been going and the BLM is actually stepping in because the fracking is being disrupted by his cows somehow.

RENO, Nev. (AP) — Buyers snapped up 29 federal land leases totaling more than 56 square miles in a northeastern Nevada area.
This could become the state's first oil shale fracking site.
U.S. Bureau of Land Management geologist Lorenzo Trimble tells the Las Vegas Review-Journal the Elko County oil and gas leases sold Tuesday for $1.27 million to six different companies.
The auction took place in Reno. The leases are near where Houston-based Noble Energy Inc. wants to drill for oil and natural gas on 40,000 acres of public and private land near the town of Wells.
The Review-Journal reports the project would be the first in Nevada to use hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, to extract oil and gas from shale deposits.
The BLM is conducting an environmental review of Noble's proposal.

Shouldn't you guys be defending the BLM now?

[Johnny Five]

Damn those national parks! We should be strip mining for god sake!

Damn those national parks that you have to pay to get into!

[Johnny Five]

Because if we're going to continue to have the fine conservative idea of National Parks we just shouldn't take care of them.

Because if we aren't there tending them they won't take care of themselves right?
Because paved walkways, concession stands, souvenir stands, and such really bring out the natural beauty of the landscape!

[Parkbandit]

Because if we're going to continue to have the fine conservative idea of National Parks we just shouldn't take care of them.

What conservative idea is that exactly?

[Warriorbird]

Because if we aren't there tending them they won't take care of themselves right?

Have you ever been to a National Park? Quite a lot of effort gets put in so that they're easily capable of use by you, me, and anybody else who's reasonably solvent. A fee also does things like encourage respectful people who seriously want to appreciate the outdoors to drop by. Given as you oppose the concept of public land in general, would you rather people who weren't you pay a fee or you pay taxes?


What conservative idea is that exactly?

To preserve spectacular parts of nature in something like their original state to enable more Americans to appreciate their country, given as we're the greatest country on Earth and exceptional.

[waywardgs]

Because if we aren't there tending them they won't take care of themselves right?
Because paved walkways, concession stands, souvenir stands, and such really bring out the natural beauty of the landscape!

Have you walked more than ten feet into a national park?

[Johnny Five]

Have you ever been to a National Park? Quite a lot of effort gets put in so that they're easily capable of use by you, me, and anybody else who's reasonably solvent. A fee also does things like encourage respectful people who seriously want to appreciate the outdoors to drop by. Given as you oppose the concept of public land in general, would you rather people who weren't you pay a fee or you pay taxes?

I live in a state that has a absolute shit ton of state parks. And they are run by a very minimal amount of staff. When you take a park and make it into a business model it isn't public anymore.

[cwolff]

I live in a state that has a absolute shit ton of state parks. And they are run by a very minimal amount of staff. When you take a park and make it into a business model it isn't public anymore.

WTF are you talking about? I can't tell if you are saying that we should have no parks or that they should all be free to enter/use. Maybe you're saying something else entirely.

[Warriorbird]

I live in a state that has a absolute shit ton of state parks. And they are run by a very minimal amount of staff. When you take a park and make it into a business model it isn't public anymore.

I hardly think $37 for 7 days is a business model.

EDIT:

Checked what I paid.

[Wrathbringer]

I hardly think.

fixed

[Warriorbird]

fixed

What I hope has happened for you at this point. Nice job outting yourself as a liar.

[Taernath]

I live in a state that has a absolute shit ton of state parks. And they are run by a very minimal amount of staff. When you take a park and make it into a business model it isn't public anymore.

Parks have more personnel than just a park ranger sitting in a log cabin giving out brochures.

[Tgo01]

Parks have more personnel than just a park ranger sitting in a log cabin giving out brochures.

It's true. Someone has to be out there preventing bears from stealing picnic baskets.

[Johnny Five]

LOL let me know where the fuck you can get 25$ for 7 days.

Holy shit 25$ for 7 days? So 1200$ a year to visit a park?

That's pretty damn expensive.

[Taernath]

It's true. Someone has to be out there preventing bears from stealing picnic baskets.

These days Ranger Smith is trying to find Yogi's grow op.

[Warriorbird]

LOL let me know where the fuck you can get 25$ for 7 days.

Holy shit 25$ for 7 days? So 1200$ a year to visit a park?

That's pretty damn expensive.

$37. It was $25 for my vehicle, $12 for me. I could pay $50 a year for personal admission to this one park and $80 to all of them. The parking charges are always there.

I'd pay $30 for parking/admission for the same 7 days at my favorite local state park. Not as much but they see a lot fewer visitors and have a lot less to take care of.

Either option is tremendously cheaper than most of my other vacations.

($37 for Yellowstone. $30 for Douthat)

[cwolff]

$37. It was $25 for my vehicle, $12 for me. I could pay $50 a year for personal admission to this one park and $80 to all of them. The parking charges are always there.

I'd pay $30 for parking/admission for the same 7 days at my favorite local state park. Not as much but they see a lot fewer visitors and have a lot less to take care of.

Either option is tremendously cheaper than most of my other vacations.

($37 for Yellowstone. $30 for Douthat)

We've had some interesting fights here in CO about usage fees. There are legal limits to what they can charge you for. Mt. Evans was a site of a dispute because they were charging people to drive on the road which I believe is maintained by the county. Then end result is that if you don't use the facilities and keep moving you don't have to pay. National forest, Grassland and BLM are pretty much free though there is a limit to how long you can camp in one spot. If you're there too long you just have to pack up and move a certain distance away.

[waywardgs]

15 days is the limit for blm land. Rangers are cool about it though a lot of the time if you're not some filthy drugged out rainbow gathering douche.

[Parkbandit]

To preserve spectacular parts of nature in something like their original state to enable more Americans to appreciate their country, given as we're the greatest country on Earth and exceptional.

I actually read your post wrong. I thought you were saying that it's a conservative idea to not take care of the national parks.

Apologies.

[Warriorbird]

I actually read your post wrong. I thought you were saying that it's a conservative idea to not take care of the national parks.

Apologies.

Definitely not. One of my favorite conservative ideas of the 20th century. Right there with the national highway system.

[waywardgs]

Ken Burns called it America's best idea.

His doc about the parks is exceptional by the way.

[Warriorbird]

Ken Burns called it America's best idea.

His doc about the parks is exceptional by the way.

I show a couple excerpts when I teach about Teddy Roosevelt. The students usually really enjoy it, in spite of saying they "Hate documentaries."

[Parkbandit]

Definitely not. One of my favorite conservative ideas of the 20th century. Right there with the national highway system.

Shhh.. we stole that from HITLER!!!!111111oneoneoneone.

[Warriorbird]

Shhh.. we stole that from HITLER!!!!111111oneoneoneone.

Reclaimed it. Reclaimed it! And since Eisenhower did it nobody ever used it for political purposes. Why? Everybody really did like Ike.

[Latrinsorm]

I show a couple excerpts when I teach about Teddy Roosevelt. The students usually really enjoy it, in spite of saying they "Hate documentaries."Jeez, WB, did you ever get reverse psychologized. Students hate watching a movie instead of doing classwork? You bought that?

[Warriorbird]

Jeez, WB, did you ever get reverse psychologized. Students hate watching a movie instead of doing classwork? You bought that?

Sadly they would often actually rather do classwork. There's usually loud protests if the films shown have still images in them. They think Teddy Roosevelt is a badass and a lot of my female students are obsessed with John F. Kennedy, however.

I have all these up though:
http://akroot313.andrewkeir313.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/historically-hardcore-50.jpg
http://th06.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2011/053/1/7/teddy_roosevelt_vs__bigfoot_by_sharpwriter-d3a72w4.jpg
http://timelifeblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ugc1140641.jpg

[Back]

Nice. I need to spread some rep around.

[waywardgs]

I show a couple excerpts when I teach about Teddy Roosevelt. The students usually really enjoy it, in spite of saying they "Hate documentaries."

Ken Burns in general does awesome stuff. He can be a bit long winded though. 19 hours on baseball? If I wanted to be that bored I'd attend an actual baseball game.

He went to the same college I did, which is kinda neat.

[Showal]

I always wonder about the people who just show up and start protesting trying to make trouble. Do they have jobs? A family? I can think of a lot more productive things to do than standing out in the desert getting tased.

LOL @ "enemy aggressors!" though

I had a patient a few weeks ago who had been hit by a dumptruck. This guy looks pretty good for having just had that same experience.

[Showal]

Ken Burns called it America's best idea.

His doc about the parks is exceptional by the way.

My favorite part is when he says that the plan is to bring out the beauty of natural landscapes through paved sidewalks and concession stands.

[waywardgs]

My favorite part is when he says that the plan is to bring out the beauty of natural landscapes through paved sidewalks and concession stands.

Well, there has to be something for folks who are too scared of the woods to get out of their cars to do. It is after all a democracy.

Wanna see the real parks? Get out of your van and walk for a few weeks.

[Showal]

Why stop at weeks? Cody Coyote has been walking the Appalachian trail for something like 3 years.

and I was making fun of that idiot.

[waywardgs]

Why stop at weeks? Cody Coyote has been walking the Appalachian trail for something like 3 years.

There are people who have been walking that trail for a lot longer than that. I did the pct last summer and am doing the cdt next summer. Met a guy who's been walking the pct for 25 years. I think on the AT there are people who basically live on the damn thing.

[Showal]

There are people who have been walking that trail for a lot longer than that. I did the pct last summer and am doing the cdt next summer. Met a guy who's been walking the pct for 25 years. I think on the AT there are people who basically live on the damn thing.

I think if you're on it for longer than the six months it takes to complete it, it's no longer "playing homeless", it's actually being homeless

[waywardgs]

Maybe. Or maybe some people have different priorities.

[cwolff]

I think if you're on it for longer than the six months it takes to complete it, it's no longer "playing homeless", it's actually being homeless

That's so cool. I wish I had the balls to just walk away and live like that.

[Showal]

That's so cool. I wish I had the balls to just walk away and live like that.

To be homeless?

[waywardgs]

To be homeless?

I know plenty of independently wealthy people who don't own a home, have no interest in ever owning a home, and just travel, hike, wander. I don't consider them "homeless". They just don't feel like staying in one place.

There's more people like that out there than you might think. Not everyone wants the same things.

[cwolff]

To be homeless?

Homefree brother. There's a difference.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/223cad247fa92ecbc816ef634343d6d5/tumblr_mht84m4t6w1rpbstbo1_500.jpg

Of course he's in jail on a murder charge now so I guess he won't be homefree anymore.

[waywardgs]

Homefree brother. There's a difference.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/223cad247fa92ecbc816ef634343d6d5/tumblr_mht84m4t6w1rpbstbo1_500.jpg

Of course he's in jail on a murder charge now so I guess he won't be homefree anymore.

And then there are the whack jobs like Kai...

[Showal]

I know plenty of independently wealthy people who don't own a home, have no interest in ever owning a home, and just travel, hike, wander. I don't consider them "homeless". They just don't feel like staying in one place.

There's more people like that out there than you might think. Not everyone wants the same things.

I am questioning how many qualify as "plenty".

And this isn't a debate about what people want. I spend a ton of time hiking and camping. It is my opinion that people who spend more than six months at one time leave the realm of pretending to be homeless and become homeless - without the clear negative connotations that you're applying to the term.

It also has been, in my experience, that people you find who have been living consistently in the woods for greater than six months at one time do not have a great level of social functioning and mental health. They're generally not doing it because they're care free and independently wealthy. What your independently wealthy cohort of friends do probably is not the same as someone like Cody Coyote does.

[waywardgs]

I am questioning how many qualify as "plenty".

And this isn't a debate about what people want. I spend a ton of time hiking and camping. It is my opinion that people who spend more than six months at one time leave the realm of pretending to be homeless and become homeless - without the clear negative connotations that you're applying to the term.

It also has been, in my experience, that people you find who have been living consistently in the woods for greater than six months at one time do not have a great level of social functioning and mental health. They're generally not doing it because they're care free and independently wealthy. What your independently wealthy cohort of friends do probably is not the same as someone like Cody Coyote does.

The negative connotation that I'M applying?

What the hell is your point in all this, anyway?

[cwolff]

I am questioning how many qualify as "plenty".

And this isn't a debate about what people want. I spend a ton of time hiking and camping. It is my opinion that people who spend more than six months at one time leave the realm of pretending to be homeless and become homeless - without the clear negative connotations that you're applying to the term.

It also has been, in my experience, that people you find who have been living consistently in the woods for greater than six months at one time do not have a great level of social functioning and mental health. They're generally not doing it because they're care free and independently wealthy. What your independently wealthy cohort of friends do probably is not the same as someone like Cody Coyote does.

I did 11 months in the woods. It was in a group setting and we had the structure of a school so we weren't all Ted Kaczyinski out there. From doing that I met a lot of people in the wilderness communit. There obviously aren't a huge amount of people who live like that but there is a pretty robust community of these people nationwide. There are different types too. Once you get plugged into the network you can go all across the country and have a place to stay or people to meet. It's like a whole nother world.

Being straight up homeless is like that too. I worked at a wilderness skills gathering in GA one year and was done with the work two days early. I had a flight out of Chatanooga so I took the time to just be homeless for those two days. Got to meet some of the locals and talk to them. The only time their world intersects our world is when we give them money, at the liquor store or when they get arrested.

[Laviticas]

It's all fun and games until you come down with a severe case of strep, have fun

[waywardgs]

It's all fun and games until you come down with a severe case of strep, have fun

Don't worry, that's what OBAMACARE IS FOR!!!

[Showal]

The negative connotation that I'M applying?

What the hell is your point in all this, anyway?

I said my point about living greater than six months ... then you said it was about different wants and people being wealthy. My original point was a simple expression of my opinion without judgement. Then it evolved and I said that I doubt your independently wealthy cohort of friends have the same experience as most people who live in the woods for greater than six months at one time.

[Latrinsorm]

When you walk past the red ninja, you better watch your back.

[cwolff]

Check out this guy. He doesn't even use money.

http://www.becomingminimalist.com/the-man-who-quit-money-an-interview-with-daniel-suelo/

[waywardgs]

Check out this guy. He doesn't even use money.

http://www.becomingminimalist.com/the-man-who-quit-money-an-interview-with-daniel-suelo/

I read that guy's book.

[Laviticas]

Don't worry, that's what OBAMACARE IS FOR!!!

I thought the whole idea wAs to tune out, drop out and trip out. Guess I figured that included government dependence as well.

[cwolff]

I read that guy's book.

No shit? I'd like to read that. He's got a great story. Seriously, if I had the balls I'd do the same thing. I'm afraid of waking up in 20 years and saying "WHAT THE FUCK DID I DO THAT FOR?"

[waywardgs]

No shit? I'd like to read that. He's got a great story. Seriously, if I had the balls I'd do the same thing. I'm afraid of waking up in 20 years and saying "WHAT THE FUCK DID I DO THAT FOR?"

Anyone can- this guy is particularly creative though.

[Showal]

When you walk past the red ninja, you better watch your back.

He's killed for people saying less.

[RagingThrak]

Check out this guy. He doesn't even use money.

http://www.becomingminimalist.com/the-man-who-quit-money-an-interview-with-daniel-suelo/

So he lives by himself, just surviving and typing up blog posts? How is he contributing to society?

Or did he quit money to write a book about quitting money to make money that is then kept secret?

[Tisket]

So he lives by himself, just surviving and typing up blog posts? How is he contributing to society?

Or did he quit money to write a book about quitting money to make money that is then kept secret?

He didn't write the book, you stupid fucking cunt.

Besides, what have you contributed to society?

[Tisket]

19 hours on baseball? If I wanted to be that bored I'd attend an actual baseball game.

And you call yourself an American. For shame!

[waywardgs]

http://youtu.be/n-vZ48WSJrA

This will most certainly not end well.

[cwolff]

http://youtu.be/n-vZ48WSJrA

This will most certainly not end well.

What a pain in the ass. They should send the Albuquerque PD up there to fill these people full of bean bags.

[Taernath]

Bunch of retarded rednecks playing soldier in the desert. I think heatstroke is going to claim more of their numbers than bullets ever will.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

http://youtu.be/n-vZ48WSJrA

This will most certainly not end well.

This whole situation is so retarded. And this guy, this video, clearly this guy is also a retard. Those drum mags are shit too. Fuckin wow. This keeps getting better.

[Latrinsorm]

No shit? I'd like to read that. He's got a great story. Seriously, if I had the balls I'd do the same thing. I'm afraid of waking up in 20 years and saying "WHAT THE FUCK DID I DO THAT FOR?"The way I look at it, waking up in 20 years beats not waking up in 20 years pretty much all the time. He talks about the balance of nature, but that balance leads to 35 year human life expectancies. Why do we kill nature? So it won't kill us first. Why do we build up a surplus? To buffer us in the inevitable lean times.

I do like the elegance of his etymological analysis of money as credit as belief, but he's not breaking any ground except I suppose to goldophiles, and they're twits anyway.

[cwolff]

The way I look at it, waking up in 20 years beats not waking up in 20 years pretty much all the time. He talks about the balance of nature, but that balance leads to 35 year human life expectancies. Why do we kill nature? So it won't kill us first. Why do we build up a surplus? To buffer us in the inevitable lean times.

I do like the elegance of his etymological analysis of money as credit as belief, but he's not breaking any ground except I suppose to goldophiles, and they're twits anyway.

My friends want to go back to being hunter gatherers. They idealize that lifestyle. I've lived it and can say from experience that civilization is pretty damn nice. I'm a huge fan of hot showers for example. I also believe that if my paleo ancestors could see me now they'd be way impressed. You can trade 1 hours worth of work for 2,000 calories at the corner store and don't even have to risk getting trampled by a herd of Mastodons. It's amazing.

My hope is that people like Suelo will have a balancing influence on our worldview. I was raised to believe that you measure a persons worth by the amount of money they accumulate. We're a bit extreme in our culture for thinking like this and I want to see that change.

[waywardgs]

This whole situation is so retarded. And this guy, this video, clearly this guy is also a retard. Those drum mags are shit too. Fuckin wow. This keeps getting better.

"Project Lets Get Shot In The Desert is a Green light. I repeat: Green Light."

And yeah, I don't care how tacticool you think your drum mags are, the Feds have more bullets.

[Taernath]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/militias-head-nevada-ranchers-standoff-feds-were-n/#ixzz2yb8iUsO8

The Las Vegas Review-Journal described it this way: “Serious bloodshed was narrowly avoided,” in a story about how dogs were unleashed on a woman who was pregnant while the rancher’s son was hit with a taser.

I believe the 'dogs unleashed on pregnant woman' video was posted earlier. lol.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/11/militias-head-nevada-ranchers-standoff-feds-were-n/#ixzz2yb8iUsO8


I believe the 'dogs unleashed on pregnant woman' video was posted earlier. lol.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qkuu0Lwb5EM

[Warriorbird]

The way I look at it, waking up in 20 years beats not waking up in 20 years pretty much all the time. He talks about the balance of nature, but that balance leads to 35 year human life expectancies. Why do we kill nature? So it won't kill us first. Why do we build up a surplus? To buffer us in the inevitable lean times.

I do like the elegance of his etymological analysis of money as credit as belief, but he's not breaking any ground except I suppose to goldophiles, and they're twits anyway.

Tell that to the !Kung.

Humans had longer life spans before the agricultural revolution than after it. Toss on modern medicine and I'm sure they could do quite well.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Seriously, if I had the balls I'd do the same thing.

Seriously, we all wish you had the balls.

[Latrinsorm]

Tell that to the !Kung.

Humans had longer life spans before the agricultural revolution than after it. Toss on modern medicine and I'm sure they could do quite well.I was talking about pre-agricultural humans, as the guy in question is a scavenger/gatherer. And you can't get to modern medicine without agriculture, that's the whole point. "Aha!" you may cry, "but we've got modern medicine now! Thus we can stop all pursuit of technological advances and, like the Qing Dynasty or General Motors before us, live in eternal security at the apex of all human endeavor!" Have fun with your rotary phones! Modern doesn't mean anything more than today, you plant your butt in any particular today and you get left behind.

[Taernath]

Tell that to the !Kung.

Humans had longer life spans before the agricultural revolution than after it. Toss on modern medicine and I'm sure they could do quite well.

While the view of hunter gatherer societies has changed much over the years, bear in mind that between 33 - 50% of hunter gatherer children don't make it to age 15. It wasn't all roses!

Here's an interesting paper on the subject:
http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/GurvenKaplan2007pdr.pdf

[Warriorbird]

I was talking about pre-agricultural humans, as the guy in question is a scavenger/gatherer. And you can't get to modern medicine without agriculture, that's the whole point. "Aha!" you may cry, "but we've got modern medicine now! Thus we can stop all pursuit of technological advances and, like the Qing Dynasty or General Motors before us, live in eternal security at the apex of all human endeavor!" Have fun with your rotary phones! Modern doesn't mean anything more than today, you plant your butt in any particular today and you get left behind.

Where have a lot of our best medicines originated from?


While the view of hunter gatherer societies has changed much over the years, bear in mind that between 33 - 50% of hunter gatherer children don't make it to age 15. It wasn't all roses!

Here's an interesting paper on the subject:
http://www.anth.ucsb.edu/faculty/gurven/papers/GurvenKaplan2007pdr.pdf

It certainly wasn't. What followed often had repulsively bad infant mortality too though.

[Latrinsorm]

Where have a lot of our best medicines originated from?Barack Hussein Obama.
It certainly wasn't. What followed often had repulsively bad infant mortality too though.Bro, I'm not advocating going back to nascent agricultural societies either. Any going back is a surrender.

No retreat.

No surrender.

[Parkbandit]

I haven't read most of the posts in this thread.. and really don't know much about the story..

but...

So this rancher has been using government land for decades.. and suddenly they are surprised by a get the fuck off the land notice?

What is the urgency? Is there another use for this land now? Are we (the govt) selling the land to someone specific?

[Taernath]

So this rancher has been using government land for decades.. and suddenly they are surprised by a get the fuck off the land notice?

What is the urgency? Is there another use for this land now? Are we (the govt) selling the land to someone specific?

I think it's been gov't land since what, the 40's? They've been telling the rancher to get off since '93, which he hasn't done, and racked up millions of dollars in fines. The reason they want him off is apparently because his grazing is destroying the habitat for some tortoise. The rancher is claiming that the government has no right to the land because his family has been grazing there for over a hundred years.

[cwolff]

I think it's been gov't land since what, the 40's? They've been telling him to get off since '93, which he hasn't done, and racked up millions of dollars in fines. The reason they want him off is apparently because his grazing is destroying the habitat for some tortoise.

I don't know when the turtles came into the picture but in '93 they didn't kick him off. They gave him a permit and a bill for land use. He never paid, refused to pay in fact. It wasn't until '98 that they pulled his permit to eject him.

[Back]

This is kinda long. It does not turn out like you might think it would. This guy has some good advice.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42NasvIqoF4

[Parkbandit]

I think it's been gov't land since what, the 40's? They've been telling the rancher to get off since '93, which he hasn't done, and racked up millions of dollars in fines. The reason they want him off is apparently because his grazing is destroying the habitat for some tortoise. The rancher is claiming that the government has no right to the land because his family has been grazing there for over a hundred years.

So.. it's been going on for 20+ years.

What is the urgency now? Why not just simply take him to court?

So.. all of this is really over tortoise habitat?

Call me skeptical.

[Tisket]

It's never been about the tortoise. Anyone who believes so is naive in the extreme.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

It's never been about the tortoise. Anyone who believes so is naive in the extreme.

I assume you're talking about the fracking company on the land that Harry Reid and Co just leased to the Chinese, 9,000 acres or some shit. I've read that whole thing from about 10 different shady websites. If its also covered by Alex Jones, then we can safely assume its totally legit. Ha

[Parkbandit]

It's never been about the tortoise. Anyone who believes so is naive in the extreme.

What's it about then?

[Latrinsorm]

So.. it's been going on for 20+ years.

What is the urgency now? Why not just simply take him to court?

So.. all of this is really over tortoise habitat?

Call me skeptical.They did take him to court, where he was ordered to pay fines. He chose not to do so, so now he gets the horns.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

They did take him to court, where he was ordered to pay fines. He chose not to do so, so now he gets the horns.

His court thing was back in July though, why the urgency for a bunch of tortoises that they were removing from the area anyway? And why did they allegedly turn off livestreams in the area and. Why is there an FAA no-fly zone there now?! Jesus, its fuckin cows people. Its not like an embassy is under attack!

[Tisket]

What's it about then?

They've used the tortoise as a justification to enforce action but there are many instances of accomodation and exemptions being allowed in the past for other land use projects, private and public. No, this is about something else.

[cholodeamor]

"Liberal: the world is over populated.
Rancher: let my cows graze this land to produce more food.
Liberal: but the turtles

::head desk:: "

We can't feed enough people because of our meat eating habits. The world can produce more than enough food for 8 billion+, but not if we filter all of our calories through animals before we eat them.

/off-topic

[Latrinsorm]

His court thing was back in July though, why the urgency for a bunch of tortoises that they were removing from the area anyway? And why did they allegedly turn off livestreams in the area and. Why is there an FAA no-fly zone there now?! Jesus, its fuckin cows people. Its not like an embassy is under attack!I find it reasonable to believe it takes 9 months for a fine to get past final notice and to organize government intervention on a cattle ranch. Cows aren't black people, you can't just sprinkle crack on them after you shoot them and get away with it.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I find it reasonable to believe it takes 9 months for a fine to get past final notice and to organize government intervention on a cattle ranch. Cows aren't black people, you can't just sprinkle crack on them after you shoot them and get away with it.

Uh...okay. Moving on...are we placing any credibility on the whole energy company land lease?

[Tisket]

What's it about then?

I realized I didn't actually answer your question.

I think it's about the money and exerting authority.

[Parkbandit]

Uh...okay. Moving on...are we placing any credibility on the whole energy company land lease?

Who knows. MSM won't report on anything like that because it would show a Democrat in a bad light. The other sources are usually crazy ass conspiracy sites who throw shit against a fan and seeing what might stick.

I agree with Tisket though.. something is happening and it's not FOR THE TORTOISESSSS!

[Latrinsorm]

Uh...okay. Moving on...are we placing any credibility on the whole energy company land lease?It's only nefarious if you believe the government suddenly invented the idea that Mr. Bundy is illegally trespassing, but quoting from your original article "The BLM canceled his grazing permit in 1994. A federal court in 1998 ordered him to remove the animals, and federal authorities in 1999 officially closed the Bunkerville allotment to cattle."

[Back]

Nothing more to it than a guy not following the rules. He got away with it for a few years. Now they are finally taking action and he's all like "GOVERMENT DICTATARSHIP!"

[waywardgs]

I find it reasonable to believe it takes 9 months for a fine to get past final notice and to organize government intervention on a cattle ranch. Cows aren't black people, you can't just sprinkle crack on them after you shoot them and get away with it.

You made me blow hot coffee all over my freedom toast and bacon.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

It's only nefarious if you believe the government suddenly invented the idea that Mr. Bundy is illegally trespassing, but quoting from your original article "The BLM canceled his grazing permit in 1994. A federal court in 1998 ordered him to remove the animals, and federal authorities in 1999 officially closed the Bunkerville allotment to cattle."

Right. I get all that. I can only post the material as I get it. So the current info spreading like wildfire is that there is a Chinese company, Noble Energy, that's been given x-amount of that land for a solar panel field and for fracking. I just find the sudden urgency, with the tortoise as an excuse, as highly suspect. You know how much Cows hate solar panels and fracking?! That would be very disruptive! They'd be all over there trying to break shit and stuff. Fuckin cows.

[Latrinsorm]

Right. I get all that. I can only post the material as I get it. So the current info spreading like wildfire is that there is a Chinese company, Noble Energy, that's been given x-amount of that land for a solar panel field and for fracking. I just find the sudden urgency, with the tortoise as an excuse, as highly suspect. You know how much Cows hate solar panels and fracking?! That would be very disruptive! They'd be all over there trying to break shit and stuff. Fuckin cows.The court battles have been going on all these years. Either way, I for one laud the President for taking a clear and decisive stand against a criminal instead of passing the buck to the next guy, as Clinton and Bush did. Does this mean Mr. Bundy is exactly the same as Osama bin Laden? Of course not, he doesn't have a beard.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

http://allenwestrepublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/10171650_10201932935507819_2666807990244539666_n-620x350.jpg

WHO HAS TIME FOR THIS SHIT? I work, go to school, and run a business. I don't understand how people can just drop shit and go protest for days.

[cwolff]

Right. I get all that. I can only post the material as I get it. So the current info spreading like wildfire is that there is a Chinese company, Noble Energy, that's been given x-amount of that land for a solar panel field and for fracking. I just find the sudden urgency, with the tortoise as an excuse, as highly suspect. You know how much Cows hate solar panels and fracking?! That would be very disruptive! They'd be all over there trying to break shit and stuff. Fuckin cows.

I'm not sure how this tortoise fits in. I know it's been pain in the ass for all kinds of industry out there. Tortoise shows up, work stops. That's nothing new. I was in 29 Palms in 93 and they gave us a long winded briefing about the tortoise. If we saw one, everything stops. It's a total cease fire, they bring out the tortoise wranglers and get it relocated. This is a challenge that any business will have to deal with out there.

From what I've read the changes that were done in 1993 to his grazing rights were in part to protect the tortoise though that's about where the animals connection to this ends.

If Noble Energy does go onto that land and exploit the resources we still can not draw any conclusions. Mr. Rancher could be grazing there if he paid his permit. The government case is not that they don't want anyone there, it's that you have get permitted and pay for it.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

I'm not sure how this tortoise fits in. I know it's been pain in the ass for all kinds of industry out there. Tortoise shows up, work stops. That's nothing new. I was in 29 Palms in 93 and they gave us a long winded briefing about the tortoise. If we saw one, everything stops. It's a total cease fire, they bring out the tortoise wranglers and get it relocated. This is a challenge that any business will have to deal with out there.

From what I've read the changes that were done in 1993 to his grazing rights were in part to protect the tortoise though that's about where the animals connection to this ends.

If Noble Energy does go onto that land and exploit the resources we still can not draw any conclusions. Mr. Rancher could be grazing there if he paid his permit. The government case is not that they don't want anyone there, it's that you have get permitted and pay for it.

Which still supports my previous point...where do people find time to protest for this guy? Look at my last post, that crowd is huge now.

[cwolff]

Which still supports my previous point...where do people find time to protest for this guy? Look at my last post, that crowd is huge now.

Ya right! Militias must have great benefits.

[Warriorbird]

Ya right! Militias must have great benefits.

Walter White did pretty well for himself.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

We can stop caring now! REAKING NEWS!!!!! BLM PULLING OUT OF NEVADA! CONFIRMED!

LAS VEGAS -- The Bureau of Land Management has announced it will stop the roundup of cattle owned by rancher Cliven Bundy. The BLM says the animals have been illegally grazing on public lands for 20 years.

The BLM made the announcement Saturday morning, a week after rangers started gathering the animals off land near Gold Butte.

The agency says it is concerned about the safety of its employees and the public.

The I-Team has learned the deal to end the gather was brokered by Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie.

According to sources, the BLM wants to proceed with the sale of the cattle already gathered during the roundup but is reportedly willing to share the revenue from the sale with Bundy.

Sheriff Gillespie has been negotiating with Bundy behind the scenes for months reached a tentative agreement Friday night, though Bundy insisted the sheriff come to his ranch to finalize the arrangement face-to-face.

The two men meet Saturday to discuss the agreement prior to a public announcement.

8 News NOW is following this developing story and will update it online as more information becomes available. 8 News NOW has a news crew in Bunkerville who will have a live report at 6 p.m.

http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25230368/major-development-in-bunkerville-cattle-battle-between-cliven-bundy-and-blm

[Tisket]

The court battles have been going on all these years. Either way, I for one laud the President for taking a clear and decisive stand against a criminal instead of passing the buck to the next guy, as Clinton and Bush did. Does this mean Mr. Bundy is exactly the same as Osama bin Laden? Of course not, he doesn't have a beard..

Careful. The line between you and ClydeR is getting increasingly blurry.

[Tgo01]

We can stop caring now! REAKING NEWS!!!!! BLM PULLING OUT OF NEVADA! CONFIRMED!

Democrats in charge means the best way to handle a difficult situation is to legalize it!

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Democrats in charge means the best way to handle a difficult situation is to legalize it!

It's true. Except for guns. Everything else is good though.

[cwolff]

Democrats in charge means the best way to handle a difficult situation is to legalize it!

Like what? Are you talking about Marijuana? Gay marriage? Murder?

[Tgo01]

Like what? Are you talking about Marijuana? Gay marriage? Murder?

Yes.

[Taernath]

MURRICA WINS! MURRICA WINS!

BLM should have posted a couple of token guys out there to see how long the militias would camp in the desert during the summer.

[cwolff]

MURRICA WINS! MURRICA WINS!

BLM should have posted a couple of token guys out there to see how long the militias would camp in the desert during the summer.

It's like Burning Man for the squares.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

MURRICA WINS! MURRICA WINS!

BLM should have posted a couple of token guys out there to see how long the militias would camp in the desert during the summer.

They could have a hell of a good bbq together with all those confiscated cattle!

[cwolff]

They could have a hell of a good bbq together with all those confiscated cattle!

No doubt. Too bad they didn't process all that meat.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Ha! Protesters have moved to the nearest major highway and are now blocking traffic until Bundy's cattle are returned to him! Let the shitshow continue!

[Taernath]

Ha! Protesters have moved to the nearest major highway and are now blocking traffic until Bundy's cattle are returned to him! Let the shitshow continue!

That's a great way to get the public on your side.

[Tgo01]

Why do these people even care about this Bundy guy? Like he's going to give them money or cattle or sausage or something?

[Taernath]

Why do these people even care about this Bundy guy? Like he's going to give them money or cattle or sausage or something?

They think that they're going to trigger a second Revolution that will remove Obummer from office and reinstate some kind of right wing paradise.

[Tgo01]

They think that they're going to trigger a second Revolution that will remove Obummer from office and reinstate some kind of right wing paradise.

Oh well then that makes perfect sense.

Who wants to go on a road trip with me to Nevada?

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Eyewitness reports are coming in now that SWAT and LEOs are moving into the area en masse. Protesters are still blocking major roadways and well,yeah this could get super interesting.

[cwolff]

Eyewitness reports are coming in now that SWAT and LEOs are moving into the area en masse. Protesters are still blocking major roadways and well,yeah this could get super interesting.

How fucked up is it that I'm loving the drama. This thing could go all Kent State, which is horrible, but very entertaining. Like watching NASCAR and hoping for the Big One.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

CHARGE!

https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/10259882_673371336043750_7649050571246626715_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t1.0-9/10177305_673367392710811_3386366160706494490_n.jpg

[Tgo01]

Let's all just sit back a moment and remember...this is all over grazing cows.

And turtles supposedly.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

LIVESTREAM... <sigh> from Alex Jones...


http://www.ustream.tv/alexjoneslive

[Taernath]

Looks like they have a cavalry regiment. Those cops are fucked without a pike square.

[Latrinsorm]

I love the backpack guy with a placard allll the way in the back of the crowd. Bro, ain't nobody reading that.

[Wrathbringer]

Let's all just sit back a moment and remember...this is all over grazing cows.

And turtles supposedly.

I like turtles.

[Taernath]

LIVESTREAM... <sigh> from Alex Jones...


http://www.ustream.tv/alexjoneslive

I saw someone call this the 'American Spring'. Just... there are no words.

[cwolff]

I saw someone call this the 'American Spring'. Just... there are no words.

Why should the Arabs have all the fun eh?

[Back]

LIVESTREAM... <sigh> from Alex Jones...


http://www.ustream.tv/alexjoneslive

Heh, the comments there make the PC look like Disneyland.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Heh, the comments there make the PC look like Disneyland.

When these people make their tinfoil hats, they use the whole roll

[Taernath]

How fucked up is it that I'm loving the drama. This thing could go all Kent State, which is horrible, but very entertaining. Like watching NASCAR and hoping for the Big One.

I kinda do too. These guys have absolutely not thought through their actions though. Say something does happen, and there's a shootout between the government and these wackos. Who needs a fake school shooting* when you've got armed militias swarming around openly contemplating killing federal agents and overthrowing the government? I bet public opinion on gun control would see a huge swing toward more firearm limiting legislation. On the plus side you've got all these crazies in one place, if they're gone that's gotta be a good thing, right?

*sarcasm font

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

And that's all she wrote for now. Cows are running home... through the wash now. BLM and DHS have vacated their hotels as well. Now we can get back to our normal routine of telling each other we're stupid liberals and stupid republicans!

[Taernath]

And that's all she wrote for now. Cows are running home... through the wash now. BLM and DHS have vacated their hotels as well. Now we can get back to our normal routine of telling each other we're stupid liberals and stupid republicans!

What's your avatar a picture of?

[cwolff]

What's your avatar a picture of?

He can't tell you. That's one of his hidey holes for when TSHTF.

[waywardgs]

He can't tell you. That's one of his hidey holes for when TSHTF.

They look like railroad hobos to me.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

He can't tell you. That's one of his hidey holes for when TSHTF.

Random adventures. And yes, along that particular stretch of track we did find a failed tunnel attempt about a half mile deep into a mountain that stopped. Tons of rats and bats in it too. Lots of fun.

[waywardgs]

Random adventures. And yes, along that particular stretch of track we did find a failed tunnel attempt about a half mile deep into a mountain that stopped. Tons of rats and bats in it too. Lots of fun.

Nifty. Where?

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

Nifty. Where?

About 90 miles east of San Diego.

[cwolff]

Someone already brought this up by my FB is still blowing up with pro-govt v pro-rancher talk and someone just posted this.

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/l/t1.0-9/10253895_728823317170339_7997760606766395220_n.jpg

[Tgo01]

It's funny reading the comments on left leaning sites about this, like HuffPost.

They go something like:

"The government shouldn't have stopped! This guy has no right to squat on public land like this!"

Wait...Occupy Movement?

[waywardgs]

It's funny reading the comments on left leaning sites about this, like HuffPost.

They go something like:

"The government shouldn't have stopped! This guy has no right to squat on public land like this!"

Wait...Occupy Movement?


I also enjoy pointing out manufactured hypocrisy.

[Tgo01]

I also enjoy pointing out manufactured hypocrisy.

It's a fun pastime.

[cwolff]

It's funny reading the comments on left leaning sites about this, like HuffPost.

They go something like:

"The government shouldn't have stopped! This guy has no right to squat on public land like this!"

Wait...Occupy Movement?

Ya they are the same thing. Occupy now has office space in those parks that they get to use tax free and the government's unsuccessfully trying to evict them but Occupy is tying it up in court for 20 years because their great grandpa took a shit on that land 1870. Same thing exactly. You nailed it.

[Tgo01]

Ya they are the same thing. Occupy now has office space in those parks that they get to use tax free and the government's unsuccessfully trying to evict them but Occupy is tying it up in court for 20 years because their great grandpa took a shit on that land 1870. Same thing exactly. You nailed it.

I think you missed my point. Were Democrats arguing for the Occupy crowd to be forcibly evicted because they were squatting on public/private land? The answer is no, no they weren't.

[Warriorbird]

I think you missed my point. Were Democrats arguing for the Occupy crowd to be forcibly evicted because they were squatting on public/private land? The answer is no, no they weren't.

Some of us were. Some Democratic officials too.

[cwolff]

I think you missed my point. Were Democrats arguing for the Occupy crowd to be forcibly evicted because they were squatting on public/private land? The answer is no, no they weren't.

Your point is off the mark. You're trying to hard to get a jab in at liberals and it's hurting your ability to make sense.

[Tgo01]

Your point is off the mark.

No, really, I'm 100% on the mark here.

I think you just don't want to see the similarities in the arguments here. It's okay cwolff, I didn't think you would :D

[cwolff]

No, really, I'm 100% on the mark here.

I think you just don't want to see the similarities in the arguments here. It's okay cwolff, I didn't think you would :D

You're wrong TG. Occupy was a temporary demonstration. Bundy just won't pay his bills because he believes that his claim to the land was stronger than the governments claim. He went to court over 20 years and he lost. During those 20 years the government treated him rather gently. His cattle, or half of them, are still there for god's sakes. They are completely different things.

If the coffee counter sit-ins never left and eventually tried to take the title to those diners by invoking squatters rights, then you may have something to your argument but that's not the case is it?

You're just a right wing shill. You'll bend over backwards to try to disparage the left but the only thing you could say about the idiots slamming Colbert is that you like Stewart better. Ironically enough, I think you said that you believe Colbert tries too hard?

[Latrinsorm]

I think you missed my point. Were Democrats arguing for the Occupy crowd to be forcibly evicted because they were squatting on public/private land? The answer is no, no they weren't.Just look at these quotes:

"I look at what's happening on Wall Street and my view is, boy, I understand how those people feel."
"People are allowed to protest and we respect their opinion."
"If you listen carefully, I'm very much involved with the 99. I've been condemning that 1% because they've been ripping us off. The people on Wall Street got the bailouts and you guys got stuck with the bills and that's where I see the problem is."

Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul.

[Tgo01]

Occupy was a temporary demonstration.

Because they were forcibly removed from the land they were occupying...


Bundy just won't pay his bills because he believes that his claim to the land was stronger than the governments claim. He went to court over 20 years and he lost. During those 20 years the government treated him rather gently. His cattle, or half of them, are still there for god's sakes.

None of this really matters. What claim did the Occupy crowd have to occupy the land they were occupying?


You're just a right wing shill.

HA! I actually laughed at that one. I don't get paid :(


You'll bend over backwards to try to disparage the left but the only thing you could say about the idiots slamming Colbert is that you like Stewart better.

Uh? What was I supposed to say? Are you really this mad because I didn't stand up for Colbert or something?

[Wrathbringer]

Looks like Bundy won. Woohoo. Score one for freedom. Current score: Freedom 1, Oppressive Regime 3049096.

[Parkbandit]

Some of us were. Some Democratic officials too.

Wait, you were for the forcible removal of Occupy protesters and made posts saying this?

I honestly don't remember you crossing the political line like this.

[Parkbandit]

Looks like Bundy won. Woohoo. Score one for freedom. Current score: Freedom 1, Oppressive Regime 3049096.

Freedom is being able to graze your cattle wherever you want?

[Wrathbringer]

Freedom is being able to graze your cattle wherever you want?

Apparently.

[Warriorbird]

Wait, you were for the forcible removal of Occupy protesters and made posts saying this?

I honestly don't remember you crossing the political line like this.

I said that maybe Mike McGinn and Rahm Emanuel weren't so out of line. Much like the even more stupid WTO protests, Occupy idiots damaged the business of a very close friend of mine, a former college roommate. I'm more an original Mayor Daley sort of Democrat like my grandfather than an SDS Democrat like my Dad. Make of that what you will.

[Tenlaar]

Wait, you were for the forcible removal of Occupy protesters and made posts saying this?

This just in: you didn't really think or want something in the past unless you can prove it with PC posts.

[Parkbandit]

This just in: you didn't really think or want something in the past unless you can prove it with PC posts.

Clue #1: WB has been here since 2003 and has never been shy about posting his political positions.

Clue #2: We've discussed the Occupy movement at length on these boards.

Now, if you add Clue #1 + Clue #2... I bet even someone like you could figure out my post with minimal assistance.

[Latrinsorm]

Clue #1: WB has been here since 2003 and has never been shy about posting his political positions.

Clue #2: We've discussed the Occupy movement at length on these boards.

Now, if you add Clue #1 + Clue #2... I bet even someone like you could figure out my post with minimal assistance.I thought we had too, but when I looked it up it was actually pretty rare (http://forum.gsplayers.com/search.php?searchid=1822797). With that said, WB's claim that he was against these protests is borne out by his saying "I detest those anarchist assholes" at the time.

That's a fact, and it's clear that he's non-partisan on this issue. With that said, I assume in PB world he would've had to explicitly say "I, Warriorbird, explicitly want the Occupy protestors forcibly removed from public lands, and am of sound (and explicit) mind and body."

[waywardgs]

and am of sound (and explicit) mind and body."

Sexy.

[Tisket]

This just in: you didn't really think or want something in the past unless you can prove it with PC posts.

You have the intellectual capacity of a grape.

[Tenlaar]

You have the intellectual capacity of a grape.

And you have the disposition of a sandy vagina. You know damn well that PB's post translates to "I don't remember you posting that so it's not true. Gotcha!"

[Parkbandit]

And you have the disposition of a sandy vagina. You know damn well that PB's post translates to "I don't remember you posting that so it's not true. Gotcha!"

You know damn well my intentions now?

Dude, you are as clueless as they come. This is no exception, even after I gave you 2 free clues.

I guess I would have lost the bet.. I gave you far too much credit.

[Tisket]

And you have the disposition of a sandy vagina. You know damn well that PB's post translates to "I don't remember you posting that so it's not true. Gotcha!"

He calmly asked for clarification of someone's stance on an issue. You are the one insinuating it was more than that.

Stop being a stupid cunt.

[cwolff]

Such hostility from the cowards tonight? Must have struck a nerve.

Thread: What the fuck is happening is Nevada?
Fuck off
04-13-2014 08:10 PM
Thread: What the fuck is happening is Nevada?
You're just a left wing shill. You'll bend over backwards to try to disparage the right

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Food for thought:

Those of you who think the rancher should get off the government land, after his family has been there longer than it was federal land, what are your feelings about the Native Americans and their plight as the America's were settled?

For those of you who feel he should be allowed to stay, what are you feelings about the Native Americans?

Personally, I don't care about the plight of the Native Americans, I cannot atone for the sins of my father so to speak. I do think this rancher, if what I've heard is accurate (that his family has been there since before it was federal land) he has a right to remain there, no different than anyone else. I caveat that with he should follow the same rules as everyone else too, and if there are fees to use the land, should be current with them, etc...

IMO, the whole militia stance reaction is kind of stupid. Now that he has national attention it is possible he'll get a fair opportunity to plead his case. Militia's, like unions, aren't needed right now. I would not argue they won't be needed in the future, but for this, right now - nope. The more probable outcome from introducing even more people with weapons and arguments about rights is bloodshed.

[cwolff]

Food for thought:

Those of you who think the rancher should get off the government land, after his family has been there longer than it was federal land, what are your feelings about the Native Americans and their plight as the America's were settled?

For those of you who feel he should be allowed to stay, what are you feelings about the Native Americans?

Personally, I don't care about the plight of the Native Americans, I cannot atone for the sins of my father so to speak. I do think this rancher, if what I've heard is accurate (that his family has been there since before it was federal land) he has a right to remain there, no different than anyone else. I caveat that with he should follow the same rules as everyone else too, and if there are fees to use the land, should be current with them, etc...

IMO, the whole militia stance reaction is kind of stupid. Now that he has national attention it is possible he'll get a fair opportunity to plead his case. Militia's, like unions, aren't needed right now. I would not argue they won't be needed in the future, but for this, right now - nope. The more probable outcome from introducing even more people with weapons and arguments about rights is bloodshed.

He did have the right to stay and use that land. He just refused to pay for it or accept any modification in how he had been using the land. And, he's gotten away with this for 20 fucking years! Ultimately, he's just a deadbeat.

I don't think my family was in the USA in 1870. As far as I know the earliest member of my family got here around 1880. Then again, it doesn't matter if my family arrived here 20 years ago, I'm as much a citizen as this guy. Can I got take some land then?

[Parkbandit]

Food for thought:

Those of you who think the rancher should get off the government land, after his family has been there longer than it was federal land, what are your feelings about the Native Americans and their plight as the America's were settled?

For those of you who feel he should be allowed to stay, what are you feelings about the Native Americans?

Personally, I don't care about the plight of the Native Americans, I cannot atone for the sins of my father so to speak. I do think this rancher, if what I've heard is accurate (that his family has been there since before it was federal land) he has a right to remain there, no different than anyone else. I caveat that with he should follow the same rules as everyone else too, and if there are fees to use the land, should be current with them, etc...

IMO, the whole militia stance reaction is kind of stupid. Now that he has national attention it is possible he'll get a fair opportunity to plead his case. Militia's, like unions, aren't needed right now. I would not argue they won't be needed in the future, but for this, right now - nope. The more probable outcome from introducing even more people with weapons and arguments about rights is bloodshed.

Just because the rancher's family has been using this land for over 100 years.. it doesn't give him some sort of special squaters right to still be there. It's not his land.. he doesn't own it.

If I use my neighbor's hose because I had been using their water "for years" and new people move in, does that give me the same right to use that hose?

I'm with you though.. if we keep having guilt about things that happened hundreds of years ago, we can never move forward. People should be responsible for their own actions.. not the actions of people in the past during a different time and different attitude.

[cwolff]

Just because the rancher's family has been using this land for over 100 years.. it doesn't give him some sort of special squaters right to still be there. It's not his land.. he doesn't own it.

If I use my neighbor's hose because I had been using their water "for years" and new people move in, does that give me the same right to use that hose?

I'm with you though.. if we keep having guilt about things that happened hundreds of years ago, we can never move forward. People should be responsible for their own actions.. not the actions of people in the past during a different time and different attitude.

Maybe this is why you have such strong racial reactions. All the "It's Racist!" sarcasm posts etc... It probably lies with this idea of guilt. You don't have to feel guilty for slavery, racism, killing the indians, sexism, glass ceiling, homophobia. You don't have to feel guilty unless you want to. As a thinking man, you do have to recognize the challenges others have faced and the benefits we've enjoyed just because of being white or male. If you can seperate your emotions from the issue and get some objectivity I think you'll see that things like changing the name of a football team or legislation that attempts to guarantee fairness are not an attack on you.

[Back]

An Op-ed from a citizen of Nevada.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Bundy-Ranch-flashpoint-by-Daily-kos-Cliven-Bundy_Commons-The-Public_Nevada_Wall-Street-Parasites-140413-207.html



This is my first diary, so if I inadvertantly break any rules, I plead innocence and not malice.


First, some background. There is a rancher here in Nevada named Cliven Bundy. His family has been in the area a long time, sine the 1880s, and like a lot of the ranchers in the state he grazes his cattle on public land. Whether or not you agree with this, it is very common practice and the fees go to help the BLM maintain the land.


Except that circa 1983, he decided that he no longer liked the BLM and the federal government "owning" (Actually managing it in trust for all of us) 84% of the land in the state, a condition set when the state was created during the Civil War. Mr. Bundy is free to believe any crackpot nonsense that he wishes, of course, but his decision that the federal government has no jurisdiction over him occasioned him to stop paying the grazing fees for the BLM land that he fed his cattle on. the BLM has taken him to court twice to get him to remove his cattle and pay what is owed, and won both times. After 20 years, the BLM has had enough and moved in to collect the cattle that remain on public land. Mr. Bundy has threatened violence from his family, and in a tense standoff days ago his son attacked BLM agents and kicked their dog, earning himself a well justified tasering.



And now the right wing anger and violence machine has seized upon this as another opportunity to create anger and fear among their target audience. Mr. Bundy himself has put out a call for armed militias to come resist the government tyranny of making a man pay his bills, and as I type this there are reports of extremists coming to the state to... create an armed insurrection? I'm not sure what their endgame here is.


Here (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/11/q-behind-bundy-blm-battle/) is a brief q&a on the subject from a local paper, this (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014/apr/11/cliven-bundy-conspiracy-theories-and-spelling-prob/) from the same paper is a sampling of the extremists ramping up the tension, and a list of direct quotes from the family calling for violence is over here (http://mediamatters.org/mobile/blog/2014/04/10/right-wing-media-are-throwing-gas-on-a-ranchers/198841).


As a lifelong resident of Nevada, I thought that some perspectives on the state and atmosphere here might help. I grew up here, attended school here and though I live in Vegas have learned to understand the particular Western mindset of the people that live in the more rural parts of Nevada. See, this state is essentially Reno at one end and Vegas at the other, and Wyoming in between. In every statewide election the cities vote Blue and the rurals are a deep, deep red. They are steeped in the myth of the self sufficient Western rancher/cowboy, the loner who is his own autonomous kingdom. It was never true, but it is useful to those who would manipulate it for their own ends, like the wealthy ranchers who make large profits from public lands. (Incidentally, those awful and destructive wild horse roundups that so many of us hate? Yeah, that's at the behest of the ranchers, who want them off of the prime grazing land. But I digress.)


This is not true of everyone in central Nevada of, course. There are many good, hardworking people who respect civil rights and the law and their fellow citizens. But the majority are very much in the Palinesque "Real America is rural and the cities are Communist hotbeds" camp, with a distinctive Western patina.


So, Cliven Bundy is a rural One Percenter. The ranchers and mine owners in the middle (And the casinos in the North and South, which is another diary) truly believe that they are above the law, and local law enforcement bends over backwards to avoid dissuading them from this belief. One big reason that this has taken so long is that every time that someone in a uniform tries to talk to Mr. Cliven, he threatens violence and they back down. This is not a new issue to those of us here, our excellent local newspaper The Sun and the one or two actual journalists in the fish wrapping known as the Review Journal have been covering this for a while.


What is new is the mostly out of state extremist right wing push to use this as a flashpoint for some kind of violent revolution. Excellent diaries have already been written about how everyone on Fox News and the vaguely traitorous Tea fringes have been calling for open revolution to protect this man from the tyranny of paying his bills. I have been "discussing" this with a lot of them on the Facebook pages of several of our local news stations for days now. (Yes, I know, but someone had to present the view that stealing is bad.) They scare me, frankly. They have no idea of history or law or the actual facts of the case, and they don't care. They were told to be outraged, and they are. They're streaming into the state armed and dangerous and with an extremely tenuous grip on reality, looking for trouble. I fear that they will find it.

[Parkbandit]

Maybe this is why you have such strong racial reactions. All the "It's Racist!" sarcasm posts etc...

All those posts are to make fun of people like you who believe that any disagreement with any ideal you hold must be rooted in some form of racism, sexism, (insert any 'ism of the day). It's nonsense used by those who are intellectually bankrupt to curb any disagreement by calling them names in hopes they stop.

Nonsense.


It probably lies with this idea of guilt. You don't have to feel guilty for slavery, racism, killing the indians, sexism, glass ceiling, homophobia. You don't have to feel guilty unless you want to.

When I do something to feel guilty over, then you might have a point. Sorry, I don't feel guilty over something someone did that I had no control over.


As a thinking man, you do have to recognize the challenges others have faced and the benefits we've enjoyed just because of being white or male.

Horseshit. I grew up poor as hell and had to pay for myself to get through college by working hard and studying. I didn't get any free ride because I'm some magical white guy who shits money out of his ass when he needs some cash.

I think you are projecting here. You have white guilt, which is why You have such strong racial reactions. You feel that the {insert "special group" here} is somehow unable to overcome anything without the white man's help and assistance. I disagree.


If you can seperate your emotions from the issue and get some objectivity I think you'll see that things like changing the name of a football team or legislation that attempts to guarantee fairness are not an attack on you.

I don't believe compartmentalizing segments of people into groups and giving those groups special laws is good for the country. It only creates differences in people that politicians can then use for their own gains.

And they certainly don't guarantee fairness.

[Latrinsorm]

All those posts are to make fun of people like you who believe that any disagreement with any ideal you hold must be rooted in some form of racism, sexism, (insert any 'ism of the day). It's nonsense used by those who are intellectually bankrupt to curb any disagreement by calling them names in hopes they stop.Judging from his posts, this is not a belief that cwolff holds. The question then becomes: why is it so important to you to believe he does, disregarding all evidence to the contrary? Judging from your posts, you're not secretly a racist. cwolff suggests guilt, but I think you're too self-centered (not a criticism) for that. Perhaps...
Horseshit. I grew up poor as hell and had to pay for myself to get through college by working hard and studying. I didn't get any free ride because I'm some magical white guy who shits money out of his ass when he needs some cash....you can't consciously accept that anyone else had a hand in your success. You succeeded because you paid for your college, you worked hard, you studied... but you are an intelligent person, so you are on some level aware that that is a cartoon, no more reflective of reality than a talking rabbit with opposable thumbs. That's relevant because the dissonance is stressful, so you lash out at anyone who strengthens it: cwolff calls everyone a racist, therefore he's wrong. That this is dissonant (not to mention inaccurate) in turn leads to a self-reinforcing cycle.

Consider this: how many people on the PC have you grown to like or credit, or otherwise speak favorably of after initial disagreement? I can't think of any. How many have you grown to discredit? I can immediately think of Keller and CT. The only way someone can go in your estimation is down, doesn't that follow from the analysis?

Anyway, that went a little far afield, but the bottom line is that you believe that any disagreement with any ideal you hold must be rooted in some form of racism accusation. This is not true.

[Back]

Have to admit I'm getting a little obsessed with this story. What have we really learned? The BLM in Nevada backed down not because of patriots making a stand... but because some crazies who might have shot someone over something they are ignorant about.

[cwolff]

Have to admit I'm getting a little obsessed with this story. What have we really learned? The BLM in Nevada backed down not because of patriots making a stand... but because some crazies who might have shot someone over something they are ignorant about.

They've got time. Better to take it slow than to get all Kent State up in there. One way or another they're going to get their money out of this Bundy guy. He's got to be racking up fees, interest and penalties.

[waywardgs]

He'll die and leave his 14 kids holding the bag on his delinquent tax bill. Just the worst sort of person.

[Parkbandit]

Have to admit I'm getting a little obsessed with this story. What have we really learned? The BLM in Nevada backed down not because of patriots making a stand... but because some crazies who might have shot someone over something they are ignorant about.

No one is happier that you sold your gun than I am.

[waywardgs]

PB just comes here so he can follow Back from thread to thread and call him stupid. I think he's got a crush.

[cwolff]

PB just comes here so he can follow Back from thread to thread and call him stupid. I think he's got a crush.

It's that time of year. The trees are in bloom, the flowers are growing and love is in the air.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NNC0kIzM1Fo#t=2

[Parkbandit]

PB just comes here so he can follow Back from thread to thread and call him stupid. I think he's got a crush.

Sounds like you are projecting your homosexual tendencies on others.

Sorry, I don't swing that way.

As far as Backlash goes.. that was my first response to him in this thread. I've made others.

You should read them, you might actually learn a thing or two.

Oh wait.. nevermind. I don't believe in miracles.

[Back]

PB just comes here so he can follow Back from thread to thread and call him stupid. I think he's got a crush.

I'm used to it. He's been doing it for over 10 years now. On the rare occasion however we agree on some things. In fact I tolerate him more than Tg01 and Jarvan. Even when he posts clown pics I know he has nothing to logically rebut whatever it is I said which is funny.

[Warriorbird]

Sounds like you are projecting your homosexual tendencies on others.

Sorry, I don't swing that way.

As far as Backlash goes.. that was my first response to him in this thread. I've made others.

You should read them, you might actually learn a thing or two.

Oh wait.. nevermind. I don't believe in miracles.

But then Backlash came along.


http://youtu.be/aOl4oeHZnBk

[cwolff]

But then Backlash came along.


http://youtu.be/aOl4oeHZnBk

HAHAHA! Too funny.

[Back]

ROFL! I am humbled.

[Parkbandit]

I'm used to it. He's been doing it for over 10 years now. On the rare occasion however we agree on some things. In fact I tolerate him more than Tg01 and Jarvan. Even when he posts clown pics I know he has nothing to logically rebut whatever it is I said which is funny.

The clowns are not to laugh with you.. they are laughing AT you.

There is a gigantic difference.

[Laviticas]

Wow the neg reping cunts are in full force tonight. Lol

[Atlanteax]

They've got time. Better to take it slow than to get all Kent State up in there. One way or another they're going to get their money out of this Bundy guy. He's got to be racking up fees, interest and penalties.

Pretty much this.

[Wrathbringer]

Ron's take.

http://www.ronpaulchannel.com/editorial/rons-blog/ron-pauls-reaction-standoff-nevada-federal-officials/?utm_source=RPFBG&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=DailyUpdate

[Taernath]

Reid's take.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/14/sen-harry-reid-on-nevada-ranch-battle-its-not-over/#

[Latrinsorm]

Ron's take.

http://www.ronpaulchannel.com/editorial/rons-blog/ron-pauls-reaction-standoff-nevada-federal-officials/?utm_source=RPFBG&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=DailyUpdateHe uses some really clever wording in there that I thought warranted special note:
"I’m hoping that the federal officials don’t come back determined to use violence to remove this family from this house and this land."
Not their house and land, this house and land. That's clever!

[leifastagsweed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFiosLqjoQQ

[leifastagsweed]

BLM has been busy, in Texas also...


http://youtu.be/YQJcQfrkcls

[Back]

I was bartending tonight and over heard two stangers talking about this story. One young guy described it like this. The government came and started to take all the cattle off the rancher's own land and that the rancher called 5000 friends to come hold them off with weapons. The young guy describing this to the other guy said just look it up. Its out there. The other guy was all like... thats crazy. I'm going to look that up.

Of course, I know better than to get into that kind of talk in public, or worse a bar.

Obviously, the young guy really didn't know what he was talking about, and the other guy couldn't believe what he was hearing. Obviously because what the young guy said wasn't true.

In this day and age of the internet, with all the information we have at our finger tips, I would think we would be far more enlightend than at any time in our history, yet, misinformation seems to be spreading at exactly the same speed. It's worrisome, to an extent, but I still think cooler heads will always prevail.

[cwolff]

He uses some really clever wording in there that I thought warranted special note:
"I’m hoping that the federal officials don’t come back determined to use violence to remove this family from this house and this land."
Not their house and land, this house and land. That's clever!

Harry wasn't quite so clever.


"Those people who hold themselves out to be patriots are not. They’re nothing more than domestic terrorists,” Reid said. "I repeat: What went on up there was domestic terrorism.”

...

For his part, Reid insisted that the conflict was not over. The Nevada lawmaker said he spoke with both federal and state law officials, including Attorney General Eric Holder, and was given assurances a task force would be established to deal with the Bundy case.

“It is an issue that we cannot let go, just walk away from,” Reid said.

While the senator mainly took issue with the hundreds who flocked to Bundy's cause, Reid also jabbed at the rancher's reputation.

"He doesn’t pay his taxes," Reid said. "He doesn’t pay his fees. And he doesn’t follow the law. He continues to thumb his nose at authority.”

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I wonder what Harry Reid thinks of the Fort Hood attack (the first one).