Healthcare

[Ashmoreth]

So today my company, a tax firm, announced that all non-senior associates (paralegals, etc) would be reduced to part time. The reason cited was Obamacare and the fact that if our company has more than 50 full-time employees the company would be required to provide healthcare for all of them and the premiums for coverage had increased so much that the business would not be able to afford to pay them and remain open.

I'm pretty sure I remember being told by the Admin that this wouldn't happen. The other bad news, premiums for my family coverage (and presumably other people's coverage as well although I don't really have anything backing that up) have nearly doubled.

Bottom line is approximately 150 people just got a pay cut of about 25% (28 hours instead of the usual 40). They also lost their healthcare and apparently their only option is to find a company that is willing to pay these costs or buy it on their own on a lower income.

I really hope my company just sucks and this isn't going to be a common theme in the next few months, but I've got a feeling we may be seeing this more and more. Given I live in a state that elected Obama I was surprised to hear the company outright blame "Obamacare" for the cuts. I'm trying to figure out how to help my paralegals deal with the change without losing them. One has a child support payment and can't afford that and rent with the pay cut and the other just got married (well civil union) and is trying to adopt. Any thoughts?

[Back]

So today my company, a tax firm, announced that all non-senior associates (paralegals, etc) would be reduced to part time. The reason cited was Obamacare and the fact that if our company has more than 50 full-time employees the company would be required to provide healthcare for all of them and the premiums for coverage had increased so much that the business would not be able to afford to pay them and remain open.

I'm pretty sure I remember being told by the Admin that this wouldn't happen. The other bad news, premiums for my family coverage (and presumably other people's coverage as well although I don't really have anything backing that up) have nearly doubled.

Bottom line is approximately 150 people just got a pay cut of about 25% (28 hours instead of the usual 40). They also lost their healthcare and apparently their only option is to find a company that is willing to pay these costs or buy it on their own on a lower income.

I really hope my company just sucks and this isn't going to be a common theme in the next few months, but I've got a feeling we may be seeing this more and more. Given I live in a state that elected Obama I was surprised to hear the company outright blame "Obamacare" for the cuts. I'm trying to figure out how to help my paralegals deal with the change without losing them. One has a child support payment and can't afford that and rent with the pay cut and the other just got married (well civil union) and is trying to adopt. Any thoughts?

If it is any consolation my company does not pay for insurance so I pay $150/month for single coverage out of my own pocket. This kind of illustrates how company provided healthcare coverage was a nice benefit. A professional I know says that full implementation of the Affordable Care Act should take place next year so premiums should be lower. But yeah, that sucks. It may take a while but it should get better.

[Tgo01]

I think this will be a common theme for a lot of companies. Heck a lot of companies have already gotten bad publicity for publicly blaming Obamacare for having to cut hours and benefits.

Although I think your company is full of shit, I find it hard to believe that providing healthcare to their employees would cause them not to be able to stay in business. Are they just barely profitable at the moment or what?

[Warriorbird]

So today my company, a tax firm, announced that all non-senior associates (paralegals, etc) would be reduced to part time. The reason cited was Obamacare and the fact that if our company has more than 50 full-time employees the company would be required to provide healthcare for all of them and the premiums for coverage had increased so much that the business would not be able to afford to pay them and remain open.

I'm pretty sure I remember being told by the Admin that this wouldn't happen. The other bad news, premiums for my family coverage (and presumably other people's coverage as well although I don't really have anything backing that up) have nearly doubled.

Bottom line is approximately 150 people just got a pay cut of about 25% (28 hours instead of the usual 40). They also lost their healthcare and apparently their only option is to find a company that is willing to pay these costs or buy it on their own on a lower income.

I really hope my company just sucks and this isn't going to be a common theme in the next few months, but I've got a feeling we may be seeing this more and more. Given I live in a state that elected Obama I was surprised to hear the company outright blame "Obamacare" for the cuts. I'm trying to figure out how to help my paralegals deal with the change without losing them. One has a child support payment and can't afford that and rent with the pay cut and the other just got married (well civil union) and is trying to adopt. Any thoughts?

This feels a little suspect coming from a Republican lawyer.

[Tgo01]

A professional I know says that full implementation of the Affordable Care Act should take place next year so premiums should be lower.

That professional sounds like an idiot.

[Back]

That professional sounds like an idiot.

I don't know who you think they are or who you think you are but their farts are more interesting than anything you post here.

[Tgo01]

I don't know who you think they are or who you think you are but their farts are more interesting than anything you post here.

Burn? Anyone?

[Ashmoreth]

I think this will be a common theme for a lot of companies. Heck a lot of companies have already gotten bad publicity for publicly blaming Obamacare for having to cut hours and benefits.

Although I think your company is full of shit, I find it hard to believe that providing healthcare to their employees would cause them not to be able to stay in business. Are they just barely profitable at the moment or what?

Not sure what kind of margins they are running. Sounded a bit fishy to me too though. I really can't figure out why they would do this though. I did a little number crunching and it would make sense now for the average paralegal to take a full time job that would pay about $8-9 and provides benefits. I imagine we are going to lose a number of good people over this move which will hurt profitability in the long run.

[Ashmoreth]

This feels a little suspect coming from a Republican lawyer.

Good one WB. You really nailed me there.

[Warriorbird]

Good one WB. You really nailed me there.

Where's this post sitting?

[Ashmoreth]

I couldn't find the "advice to employees with shitty situations" forum. I guess I could have put it in things that made you sad today, but that didn't seem right either. I did not come to the Gemstone IV forums as an agent of the Republican party and make up a story about people getting reduced to part time. The fact that you think that anyone would do something like that is why you can't be taken seriously.

[Back]

I wonder if sales of Papa John's dropped after him saying he would have to lay people off then turned around and gave out 2 millions pizzas during the Superbowl?

[Ashmoreth]

I wonder if sales of Papa John's dropped after him saying he would have to lay people off then turned around and gave out 2 millions pizzas during the Superbowl?

Doubt it. For every person who doesn't buy a pizza because they don't like the decision there will be one of the people who will now shop exclusively at PJ. Mostly though people just won't know or care.

[Bobmuhthol]

I did a little number crunching and it would make sense now for the average paralegal to take a full time job that would pay about $8-9 and provides benefits.I realize the number crunching is being done by the same person who thinks 12/40 = 0.25, but I would love to see any company ever pay $8/hour and have any sort of real benefits package. The cost of administering benefits would exceed wages.

[Jarvan]

If it is any consolation my company does not pay for insurance so I pay $150/month for single coverage out of my own pocket. This kind of illustrates how company provided healthcare coverage was a nice benefit. A professional I know says that full implementation of the Affordable Care Act should take place next year so premiums should be lower. But yeah, that sucks. It may take a while but it should get better.

By professional, do you mean professional can collector? Because no one I have ever heard talk about this thinks premiums will go DOWN. Maybe this guy also thinks we will see 1.50 gas again.

Full implementation of it will see premiums rise, just not as much, because the Fed says they can't at that point. Overall, the law does nothing to reduce Premiums, which are based on the cost of service. Actually, the law expands what insurance has to cover above and beyond what some had previously, and tell everyone they have to have it. Of course if they don't get it, they pay a fine which is much less then the cost to buy, it, and the fine currently isn't even legally collectable. Or at least the IRS has said they can't force payment of the fine "at this time".

So yeah. Maybe that professional nose picker needs to go back to school.

Green rep.. Maybe Back forgot how to rep people..


Thread: Healthcare

Your percieved notion of who I know is wrong thus your post means very little to me - Back


And yet your professional is still wrong Back. I think Healthcare Premiums is kinda like the sun at this point, it rises every morning, so will premiums. Tell you what tho, find me a credibly source outside of your hair salon that says next year Premiums will go down in price, not a lower increase, actually down, and I will eat my words.

[Jarvan]

I realize the number crunching is being done by the same person who thinks 12/40 = 0.25, but I would love to see any company ever pay $8/hour and have any sort of real benefits package. The cost of administering benefits would exceed wages.

Well.. now by law starting next year, if you are full time, the company MUST provide benefits. Hence, the reason why companies don't hire full time nearly as much as before. Generally you are right though. Not really, but generally. I have worked at places that pay 9$ an hour and offer heath benefits, not GREAT benefits, but better then nothing. I mean, I wouldn't want to get cancer while covered by it, but plenty if you just get sick and have to go to the DR, or break a leg and go to the ER.

[Back]

By professional, do you mean professional can collector? Because no one I have ever heard talk about this thinks premiums will go DOWN. Maybe this guy also thinks we will see 1.50 gas again.

Full implementation of it will see premiums rise, just not as much, because the Fed says they can't at that point. Overall, the law does nothing to reduce Premiums, which are based on the cost of service. Actually, the law expands what insurance has to cover above and beyond what some had previously, and tell everyone they have to have it. Of course if they don't get it, they pay a fine which is much less then the cost to buy, it, and the fine currently isn't even legally collectable. Or at least the IRS has said they can't force payment of the fine "at this time".

So yeah. Maybe that professional nose picker needs to go back to school.

ROFL. I suppose since we are conversing on a message board you think you can conjure up any image of myself or who I know. That is your prerogative. But I'll trust her years of medical school and private practice over some jackass with time on their hands and an internet connection.


Green rep.. Maybe Back forgot how to rep people..


Thread: Healthcare

Your percieved notion of who I know is wrong thus your post means very little to me - Back


And yet your professional is still wrong Back. I think Healthcare Premiums is kinda like the sun at this point, it rises every morning, so will premiums. Tell you what tho, find me a credibly source outside of your hair salon that says next year Premiums will go down in price, not a lower increase, actually down, and I will eat my words. Last edited by Jarvan; 05-14-2013 at 01:01 AM.



If you want to have a real debate refrain from the personal attacks. The OP presented something and we are here discussing it.

PS. Get your salt and pepper ready.

[Ashmoreth]

I realize the number crunching is being done by the same person who thinks 12/40 = 0.25, but I would love to see any company ever pay $8/hour and have any sort of real benefits package. The cost of administering benefits would exceed wages.

It's an estimation Bob, I rounded 28 to 30 for the purposes of this post. Don't worry though, I used 28/40 when I was doing impromptu number crunching. At least the point you made with that masterful critique of a rounded number was really salient and didn't make you look like a douche.

[Bobmuhthol]

I guess I just come from a part of the world where people don't think it takes some sort of show-offy douche to mentally simplify a fraction that easy.

[Ashmoreth]

you don't work with my clients, and I guess I'm in a bad habit of simplifying things for them. And to be clear it isn't douchey that you can work with simple fractions, its douchey that you felt the need to drop an insult before you made your point.

In response to the point you made, there are plenty of companies that provide crappy benefits to someone making $8-10/hr (rounding again). If anything, that makes what my company did even stupider. Our new assistants will be the type of people that could only command a $9 salary at a full time employer, meaning at the very least that they are lacking experience.

[Jarvan]

ROFL. I suppose since we are conversing on a message board you think you can conjure up any image of myself or who I know. That is your prerogative. But I'll trust her years of medical school and private practice over some jackass with time on their hands and an internet connection.



If you want to have a real debate refrain from the personal attacks. The OP presented something and we are here discussing it.

PS. Get your salt and pepper ready.

So her years of medical school and private practice makes her a professional in what an insurance company will do? OR makes her a DR/Nurse.

Just so you know Back, DR's don't know shit about what an insurance company will do. Premium RATES will not go down. Period. The rate of increase will likely go down due to government mandate, but until the fed takes over it all, you will not see RATES decline. And yes, I worked in the insurance industry for 5 years so frankly I know more then she does on this matter, since she has nothing to do with premiums, UNLESS she worked for an insurance company, in that case she would be blowing smoke up your ass.

As for personal attacks, I didn't attack you, I attacked your professional, which is obviously bullshit. You are claiming that the Premiums will go down DUE to Obamacare, when in fact, they have gone up, and will continue to go up. I looked to see if I could find some data on decrease in premium costs, and the ONLY thing I find is the fact that Dems claim premiums will go down, then asked how, they explain, well, we will subsidize it for a large portion of America. Yeah, Guess what. Tax payers, paying for part or all of a Premium doesn't make that premium cost less. It's still the same cost. Someone else is just paying for it.

Sorry Back, but you are wrong, and your "professional" is wrong. Premium costs will not go down. That's just how it is.

[AnticorRifling]

you don't work with my clients, and I guess I'm in a bad habit of simplifying things for them. And to be clear it isn't douchey that you can work with simple fractions, its douchey that you felt the need to drop an insult before you made your point.

In response to the point you made, there are plenty of companies that provide crappy benefits to someone making $8-10/hr (rounding again). If anything, that makes what my company did even stupider. Our new assistants will be the type of people that could only command a $9 salary at a full time employer, meaning at the very least that they are lacking experience.

I'm going to agree with and defend Bob on this one.

It wasn't douchey at all. Bad data always makes follow up points suspect. I work with my clients and my clients expect exact numbers.

[AnticorRifling]

If you want to have a real debate refrain from the personal attacks.. Quoting this for the pure hilarity given the source.

[Latrinsorm]

If it is any consolation my company does not pay for insurance so I pay $150/month for single coverage out of my own pocket. This kind of illustrates how company provided healthcare coverage was a nice benefit. A professional I know says that full implementation of the Affordable Care Act should take place next year so premiums should be lower. But yeah, that sucks. It may take a while but it should get better.$150?!? What the heck, aren't you a smoker?
Premium RATES will not go down. Period. The rate of increase will likely go down due to government mandate, but until the fed takes over it all, you will not see RATES decline.But will you see them go down when corrected for inflation?

Regarding the fraction, it would be one thing if it were repeating, but it's just 30%, so...

[Bobmuhthol]

Quoting a dollar amount for a monthly premium is just slightly useless. Different coverage, etc.

[Atlanteax]

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/money/dam/assets/130513015935-obamacare-premiums-620xa.png

Courtesy of: http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/14/news/economy/obamacare-premiums/index.html


Few insurers have disclosed their individual market plan prices for next year, but several have warned that they're likely to rise significantly. In Maryland, for instance, Blue Cross has said its premiums could go up 25%.


One key provision is that those with pre-existing conditions cannot be excluded or charged more for coverage. Until now, many cancer survivors, heart attack sufferers and those with other ailments have found it tough to get insurance. The new rule is great for those who have been sick, since they can now obtain more affordable plans, but it is likely to make things more expensive for the healthy people who get insurance by raising the overall cost of coverage.

tl;dr, healthy people get shafted ... exponentially so due to the U.S.'s obesity crisis.

[Latrinsorm]

I for one am sick and tired of cancer survivors getting all the breaks. Old Boys' Club? More like Old Blastoma Club.
Quoting a dollar amount for a monthly premium is just slightly useless. Different coverage, etc.I should have made that comment a month or so ago when you were still in school and therefore didn't have to be taken seriously. Drat!

[Atlanteax]

Too much of this is also responsible for excessively high health care costs

[url]http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/21/news/companies/rajaratnam_kidney_taxpayer/index.htm?iid=EL/url]

Whatever happened to just saying "tough shit" to this?

[Tgo01]

This news article reminded me of this thread (well it reminded me of several threads but this was the first one I found.) (http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2013/05/portage_approves_2013-14_budge.html)


PORTAGE, MI – Portage has a new city budget for 2013-14 that cuts some popular parks programs but maintains the same city millage and services that residents expect.

That’s the word from the Portage City Council after unanimously approving the new $62.5 million total budget Tuesday that discontinues several parks programs and facilities including the Celery Flats Interpretive Center, Teas at Stuart Manor and the Portage Creek Livery. It is also the final year of the Portage Summer Entertainment Series.

“At the end of the day, we have less money to spend,” said Portage Mayor Pete Strazdas. “At the end of the day the city has less money and fewer people to deliver services. At the end of the day, there are no layoffs but there have been some staff reductions in each of the past several years.

“In the last couple of years, we have said the rubber band is about to snap. We have been looking at ways to stretch that rubber band.”

The proposed budget, roughly $62.5 million in total and $24 million for the general fund, is about the same as this year’s budget and includes the same city millage as the current budget, 10.778 mills.

Though the budget calls for the same tax millage, a drop in property values will result in a small city tax decrease for the average single family residence, from $802.94 a year to $784.81. City officials caution that that is merely the average, not what every property owner will experience.

The city is also facing a 2 percent drop in property tax revenue because of the decline in many property values, but it will be getting 4 percent more in state revenue sharing. The two will equalize each other out as far as revenue coming in, said City Manager Maurice Evans, who added “I think you have a sound budget.”

Councilman Jim Pearson said that while the council laments having to discontinue the Summer Entertainment Series and make other cuts, the administration and council have been forced in recent years to reduce the city budget.

“In the last five to six years the budget has been down from $80 million to $62 million,” Pearson said. “We have gone from 235 employees to 189, a 20 percent drop in employees. I commend the city administration for the work they’ve done the last five to six years, but we are not out of the woods yet.”

Councilwoman Patricia Randall said that one area of further cuts she would like to see explored is reducing the city’s vehicle fleet. The city for years has provided work cars for certain employees, but Randall said that those vehicles are not used on evenings or weekends, cost plenty in maintenance and are more expensive that compensating employees for use of their personal vehicles.

“If you do the actual miles, it would be cheaper to pay employees 55 cents a mile,” Randall said, indicating a going rate that many private companies pay their employees to use their own vehicles for business. “This is not reduced customer service. That would be an area the administration could look forward to in the future.”

The budget also reflects the city’s response to the federal Affordable Care Act that mandates health care coverage for most employees who work a monthly average of 30 hours a week or more. To keep health care costs and the budget in line, Portage officials said, they will attempt to limit a worker’s part-time hours to no more than 28 hours a week.

Still, council members said, the city’s 10.7778 mills keeps the city in the position of being in the lowest quarter of Michigan cities with populations greater than 25,000.

The budget also calls for several economic development efforts through $11.8 million in projects in the Capital Improvement Program. Some of those projects include the water main replacement on South Westnedge Avenue between Melody Street and South Shore Drive, a new water storage tank at Haverhill Park and renovating the 12th Street lift station.

But I thought only evil Republican owned mega corporations were cutting workers' hours due to Obamacare?

[Atlanteax]

Maybe the plan all along was to use 'National Healthcare' as a perverse cover for job creation ... where full-time (40hr/w) jobs are split into 1.43 part time jobs (28hr/w).

Lo and behold, job creation and less unemployment.

[NinjasLeadTheWay]

It's happening to us too. Basically, I was paying 90 bucks a month for my healthcare plan, which was freakin' great. They just announced that my premiums are going to almost 300 a month as my non-profit organization is now having to pay higher everything. Also, this has happened to a whole hell of a lot of people I know in other companies as well. This is totally Bush's fault.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Well someone has to pay for everyone's healthcare! You won't be required to change your doctor or your coverage though! Make no mistake!

[Ryvicke]

True story: last Saturday I was hanging out with this Russian dude that lives in Brooklyn and he started telling me about this movie that was banned in America and how "sick" it was or something. It took like 15 minutes of him typing stuff into his Russian keyboard Android phone before he finally pulled up a picture of Michael Moore's Sicko (2007). I told him that the movie was definitely not banned in America and that I had seen it a few weeks after it was released. He got all confrontational about how he for sure knew that it was banned in America--we had a long talk about the first amendment.

Then he was all jazzed up to watch Sicko and a few other people had joined us by that point so we downloaded a torrent and went to town on it.

Oh that movie, all ex-insurance executives and insurance company doctors crying about how every day they had to kill people and refuse treatment so they could get promoted. And then people with insurance crying cause their loves ones all died because insurance companies refused them care. Then entire segments on the Canadian, British, French and Cuban health care systems, including a baller sequence where a UK government doctor totally drives around in his pimpin AUDI. Some people cried when the little kids died and the 9/11 workers got treatment for the first time in 7 years but it was in Cuba.

I mean--have you guys watched this lately? Did you ever watch it? It's effective.

Then all the Russian people (who are actually Israelis) told me my country was in the stone ages and told stories for like 2 hours about how they get sick and go to the doctor and don't think about it and how all their parents got cancer and didn't pay to uncancer themselves. It was a really exciting Saturday night.

ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE OF EVERYTHING I STAND FOR.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. ... If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. ... No one will take it away, no matter what.

True story: Each night I drive home after my 9 hour work day and see an Obama/Biden bumper sticker, I want to ram it and push them off the road with my gas guzzling full size pickup.

[Latrinsorm]

Then all the Russian people (who are actually Israelis)It's very brave of you to hang out with Middle Eastern Russians after Boston.

[~Rocktar~]

True story: Each night I drive home after my 9 hour work day and see an Obama/Biden bumper sticker, I want to ram it and push them off the road with my gas guzzling full size pickup.[/FONT]

Hehehe, get one of these babies (http://www.government-fleet.com/channel/vehicle-research/news/story/2011/09/dodge-considers-durango-ram-for-police-officers.aspx?prestitial=1) and go to town! I know how you feel, I got a substantial price increase in my health coverage but hey, they give me a $25 rebate every month because I signed an affidavit attesting to being smoke free and agreeing to submit to whatever chemical test they use to determine if I use tobacco regularly at any time they want to test me. All in all, I think it is somewhere along 10% increase in premiums and I am pretty sure there is a reduction of care in there as well, I haven't gotten the old paperwork out to compare side by side for every item.

[Ryvicke]

It's very brave of you to hang out with Middle Eastern Russians after Boston.

Really there is no one more racist than Israelis that grew up in Israel. Rednecks that want to run Obama/Biden stickers off the road can't even arab hate half as good. Except they all seem to like Obama... DON'T THEY KNOW HE'S A ARAB??

[Sjoldamn]

I really hope my company just sucks and this isn't going to be a common theme in the next few months, but I've got a feeling we may be seeing this more and more. Given I live in a state that elected Obama I was surprised to hear the company outright blame "Obamacare" for the cuts. I'm trying to figure out how to help my paralegals deal with the change without losing them. One has a child support payment and can't afford that and rent with the pay cut and the other just got married (well civil union) and is trying to adopt. Any thoughts?

Companies have been doing this shit for years. For decades. This issue has been part of the anti-Walmart debates forever. "ObamaCare" is just a new buzz word to justify the shit companies already do.

For the record, the only part time job I've ever had that included benefits was at a supermarket. Because the Union took the decision away from the company.

[Parkbandit]

Really there is no one more racist than Israelis that grew up in Israel. Rednecks that want to run Obama/Biden stickers off the road can't even arab hate half as good. Except they all seem to like Obama... DON'T THEY KNOW HE'S A ARAB??

http://pictures.picpedia.com/2012/09/Giant_Paint_Brush.jpg

[Atlanteax]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/11/news/economy/cash-only-doctors/index.html?iid=HP_LN


Fed up with declining payments and rising red tape, a small but growing number of doctors is opting out of the insurance system completely. They're expecting patients to pony up with cash.

Probably the best way to cut government bureaucracy out of it ...

[Jarvan]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/11/news/economy/cash-only-doctors/index.html?iid=HP_LN



Probably the best way to cut government bureaucracy out of it ...

OMG no!!!

So revolting, making people pay for something they use!!

What kind of a country is this!

[Back]

Oh, look, turns out there is a thread about Healthcare.


So how about your healthcare? Are you going to make me start an entire thread asking you about if you have it, if you do who pays for it, if you are satisfied or think it could be better?


Sure.

So... care to tell us about your healthcare woes?

[Tgo01]

You really have a hard on for my health care plan, Back.

[Back]

You really have a hard on for my health care plan, Back.

And you dodge the answer. S'cool. Privacy and all.

[tyrant-201]

HIPPA, Wayne Gretzky! You don't gotta tell him shit!

[Back]

HIPPA, Wayne Gretzky! You don't gotta tell him shit!

True that. When people ask people questions on this board ain't nobody is obligated to answer. Amirite?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/b117baf7b0a3b42a88f47cdf24b03b8b/tumblr_mhvlo0bx9u1qcmny4o1_500.gif

[tyrant-201]

True that. When people ask people questions on this board ain't nobody is obligated to answer. Amirite?

http://24.media.tumblr.com/b117baf7b0a3b42a88f47cdf24b03b8b/tumblr_mhvlo0bx9u1qcmny4o1_500.gif

Unless it's Anticor asking questions. Then your ass better have some answers.

[Back]

Ain't nobody got time for Hamticor!

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kz6ykwtYhJ1qboh55o1_500.gif

[Warriorbird]

Because making the country spend more on healthcare totally makes it better.

[kutter]

Because making the country spend more on healthcare totally makes it better.

Your statement makes no sense what so ever.

[crb]

If it is any consolation my company does not pay for insurance so I pay $150/month for single coverage out of my own pocket. This kind of illustrates how company provided healthcare coverage was a nice benefit. A professional I know says that full implementation of the Affordable Care Act should take place next year so premiums should be lower. But yeah, that sucks. It may take a while but it should get better.

Why would you think premiums would be lower?

My healthcare premiums increased the day the first Obamacare regulations went into effect. Obamacare has a bunch of additional coverage mandates, these require insurers pay for more services, this costs money, premiums increase. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

The penalty, er fine, er tax attached to the individual mandate lacks teeth, which is why Obama is so desperately trying to reach out to young people to sign up. One of the parts of the law limits the cost differences an insurer can charge based on age, young relatively poorer people inherently subsidize older relatively wealthier people. This generational transfer of wealth though ends up being optional because the penalty for not having insurance is not high enough, ergo many young healthy people are not going to sign up. Health insurance functions as a risk pool and people with low risk are needed to average out the pool, when they opt out the risk profile of the pool increases causing the need for premium increases, this causes more healthy people to drop out, which makes the problem worse, and you end up with a spiral of adverse selection. The people who use a lot of insurance keep it, those who are healthy don't. This is one of the inherent problems with how we treat health insurance, which is not like actual catastrophic insurance we have for our cars or houses, but more like a prepaid health plan. When insurers could ignore preexisting conditions there was incentive for young people to obtain insurance (car accidents, broken legs, freak cancer diagnosis, etc), they bought insurance for the traditional reason people buy insurance, unforseen expenses. With the removal of the ability of insurers to not pay for preexisting conditions young people lost that incentive to purchase insurance. That incentive which is absolutely required for the insurance market to work without drastic price increases. To replace it we were given the individual mandate, however politically it was unpopular so it was made relatively weak, voluntary, and used the tax code, in a tax system where around 50% of people pay no federal income tax, and young people are disproportionately represented in the percentage that pay no taxes because they're just starting out their careers. So young people can now simply wait until a catastrophe befalls them to buy insurance, they opt out of the risk pool, they do not subsidize the older less healthy people anymore, meanwhile the law also limits the amount of additional premium an insurer can charge based on age, so the young people who do stay in the risk pool for whatever reason are still subsidizing the older less healthy people less.

No.. I'm afraid healthcare premiums will not be decreasing anytime soon.

There are myriad other ways Obamacare increases premiums too, but it'd take so long to describe them all, the law is like 2000 pages afterall, and that doesn't count the regulations it spawned.

[crb]

Because making the country spend more on healthcare totally makes it better.

Spending more on healthcare and wellness is a natural tendency as a country gains wealth. You only need so much house, so much car, so much entertainment, it is natural for humans to use income to improve their quality of life, and healthcare has the ability to swallow a lot of money in that regard.

There are of course countries as wealthy as ours that spend less per capita, but they also likely have healthier average populations. Our population is relatively unhealthy among our first world peers.

That isn't the whole picture of course, we also have lacked a true market in healthcare services forever, more or less, there are lots of inefficiencies in the system caused by lack of price transparency, third party payment, and the like. So much shit getting in the way of normal market signals that would otherwise sort things out like in every other industry (or even healthcare industries like cosmetic surgery).

But it is certainly part of it, you shouldn't automatically feel bad about spending a high per capita amount on healthcare, that is an indicator of prosperity.

[Buckwheet]

Our premium is like $1100 per month with our company paying 70%. We pay the other 30% pre-tax. The information we just had in a presentation shows that roughly the same coverage would be $900 a month under Obamacare as the premium through the exchange.

So how is that not going down? I think if it goes down or up really depends on the state you live in right?

Right now we pay $5k per family member with a max of 10k. Then its another max of 10k at a 70/30 split. After that everything is covered.

So if you have one family member have something bad happen to them the max you pay for that single person would be 8k. The total family max is then 16k.

I believe its $12.7k for family max under Obamacare with a Silver level plan that costs $900 per month.

[Latrinsorm]

You only need so much house, so much car, so much entertainmentAnd you call yourself an American?
Our premium is like $1100 per month with our company paying 70%. We pay the other 30% pre-tax. The information we just had in a presentation shows that roughly the same coverage would be $900 a month under Obamacare as the premium through the exchange.

So how is that not going down? I think if it goes down or up really depends on the state you live in right?

Right now we pay $5k per family member with a max of 10k. Then its another max of 10k at a 70/30 split. After that everything is covered.

So if you have one family member have something bad happen to them the max you pay for that single person would be 8k. The total family max is then 16k.

I believe its $12.7k for family max under Obamacare with a Silver level plan that costs $900 per month.If any data contradicts crb's theories, it's because the world has a liberal bias or you are just lying. It's called basic economics, buckwheet.

[cwolff]

I realize the number crunching is being done by the same person who thinks 12/40 = 0.25, but I would love to see any company ever pay $8/hour and have any sort of real benefits package. The cost of administering benefits would exceed wages.

Isn't that Starbucks model? They pay low, but they offer benefits to people who work 20+ hrs per week.

[Warriorbird]

Spending more on healthcare and wellness is a natural tendency as a country gains wealth. You only need so much house, so much car, so much entertainment, it is natural for humans to use income to improve their quality of life, and healthcare has the ability to swallow a lot of money in that regard.

There are of course countries as wealthy as ours that spend less per capita, but they also likely have healthier average populations. Our population is relatively unhealthy among our first world peers.

That isn't the whole picture of course, we also have lacked a true market in healthcare services forever, more or less, there are lots of inefficiencies in the system caused by lack of price transparency, third party payment, and the like. So much shit getting in the way of normal market signals that would otherwise sort things out like in every other industry (or even healthcare industries like cosmetic surgery).

But it is certainly part of it, you shouldn't automatically feel bad about spending a high per capita amount on healthcare, that is an indicator of prosperity.

There's this fantastic notion where if you don't have to constantly spend money on certain things your economy goes through large periods of prosperity. Guess what one of those things is?

You can't really talk about this though. You are more biased than anybody else here.