Corporal Punishment Instead of Prison in Montana

[ClydeR]

Rep. Jerry O’Neil, R-Columbia Falls, has a bill that would allow criminal defendants to bargain with a judge for corporal punishment in lieu of time behind bars.

More... (http://mtlowdown.blogspot.com/2013/01/corporal-punishment-bill-raises-eyebrows.html)

Spanking is a good starting point for reform.

[Kastrel]

Now, I'm not a fan of corporal punishment in the first place, but I'm going to put that aside to address this issue instead:

Who does this help? What does this "provide"? Given that it is an option that the criminal can attempt to pick OVER jail time . . . all it does is gives criminals an easy way to reduce/avoid jail time. If my interpretation is correct, the end result is to allow criminals pick the punishment they would "prefer". It is certainly not a deterrent, since you have to bargain FOR it. My only guess is that it reduces financial strain on the jail system, and hence, the state?

[Androidpk]

Given the huge prison population in the United States I would say jail time isn't a deterrent either.

[Kastrel]

I'm not saying that it necessarily is. I'm just curious what this bill is trying to accomplish.

[msconstrew]

I'm just wondering who makes the decision about whether the punishment in question violates the constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.

[Androidpk]

By the way this is also the same state legislator that requested he be paid in gold and silver coins.

[Tenlaar]

Maybe it's trying to accomplish not putting people in jail for petty crimes and furthering the prison culture that we have.

Anybody else remember the stink that was made back when that kid got four whacks with a cane for vandelism (I think) in Singapore?

[Kastrel]

By the way this is also the same state legislator that requested he be paid in gold and silver coins.

Is he a pirate or something?

[Androidpk]

Is he a pirate or something?

Worse, he's a Montanan.

[Tgo01]

I say we bring back the stocks.

[Allereli]

I'm not saying that it necessarily is. I'm just curious what this bill is trying to accomplish.

save on prison costs maybe

[Tgo01]

Maybe it's trying to accomplish not putting people in jail for petty crimes and furthering the prison culture that we have.

Anybody else remember the stink that was made back when that kid got four whacks with a cane for vandelism (I think) in Singapore?

That's what I was thinking too. There should be two components for breaking a law, punishment and rehabilitation. If whacking someone on the ass constitutes the punishment part as opposed to jail time then I can see the point of this bill.

[Whirlin]

Attempt to get Montana in the news? No publicity is bad publicity, and there's nothing else going on in Montana... ever...

[Gelston]

I'm just wondering who makes the decision about whether the punishment in question violates the constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.

Well, it is something the defendant has to request... Although in these days, I'd imagine how hard it would be to actually do. Corporal Punishment used to split skin and cause and such. This puts forth many, many questions..

1. How much punishment is enough? How hard do you strike the person?
2. If you strike them too hard, how do you handle lawsuits?
3. With question 1 in mind, will they have certified erm.. punishers?
4. How do they deal with the medical care that will be required after? Should the person's health insurance be forced to pay for injuries arisen due to commission of a crime and the resulting penalty?

Still, I can't see this getting anywhere, and I'm sure the State Supreme Court will say no before Federal courts ever get involved it it did pass. I can't imagine a State Governor signing off on this either.. Way too much liability.

[Jarvan]

I'm just wondering who makes the decision about whether the punishment in question violates the constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment.

That has been violated numerous times by pretty much all the television companies.

Honey Boo boo comes to mind.


Maybe it's trying to accomplish not putting people in jail for petty crimes and furthering the prison culture that we have.

Anybody else remember the stink that was made back when that kid got four whacks with a cane for vandelism (I think) in Singapore?

I thought it was for spitting gum on the sidewalk.


~~~~

On a side note, when I was in middle school, they still allowed corporal punishment instead of detention. Now granted, I was a special case. I didn't give a shit if I was hit. But pretty much all the kids I know in school were well behaved, did their work, and didn't act up. We used to get 5 wacks with a plastic paddle with holes drilled in it by the gym teacher if we forgot our suits to often. And he would take a running start too. Yeah, I forgot my suit one time to many and received my share of smacks. Hurt like the dickens, didn't forget my suit after that.

Course my English teacher broke 5 paddles on my ass in 6th grade. I refused to copy words for him. First day of class he gave us 100 words and told us to copy them 100 times each. Screw that. He got pissed when I handed in a dot matrix printout. I saw him a few years ago, and he asked where my homework was.. by the end of the year it was kinda a joke between us. I owed him those 100 words written out 2,000 times each. (he kept upping it) He would have failed me, but I aced every test and pop quiz. My reports were only ok tho.

Anyway.. Personally, I think for kids. Parents should be able to opt in or out of it. As for adults.. you got to be fucking kidding. Unless the punishment is like.. a red hot brander branding a mark of shame onto their forehead for all time.. it's a weak ass punishment.

[Androidpk]

Theft/vandalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay

[Candor]

At first I thought this thread was some sort of joke. Corporal punishment in the United States, are you freaking kidding me? Didn't we mature away from this concept decades ago?

I generally hold a conservative point of view, but I am really getting really tired of "conservatives" who come up with ideas like this one, want to make abortion illegal when the mother's life is at stake, think there is such a thing as "legitimate rape", and have a desire to suppress votes.

Maybe I need to reassess whether I am a moderate or conservative.

[Jarvan]

At first I thought this thread was some sort of joke. Corporal punishment in the United States, are you freaking kidding me? Didn't we mature away from this concept decades ago?

I generally hold a conservative point of view, but I am really getting really tired of "conservatives" who come up with ideas like this one, want to make abortion illegal when the mother's life is at stake, think there is such a thing as "legitimate rape", and have a desire to suppress votes.

Maybe I need to reassess whether I am a moderate or conservative.

Just curious. Are you against spanking a disobedient child then? Not smacking, spanking. If so, how exactly do you discipline them then?

[Atlanteax]

I say we bring back the stocks.

and hangings for the serial cases.

For theft, particularly the 'white-collar' kind ... cut off fingers.

[Candor]

Just curious. Are you against spanking a disobedient child then? Not smacking, spanking. If so, how exactly do you discipline them then?

My previous comment was restricted to the judicial system.

As a general rule, I am not against spanking until the child is around 9 or 10 years of age (or until withholding material items and/or privileges is effective). But I think spanking, unless the offense is severe (for example, striking a parent) should not be the initial method of discipline. Timeouts often work, if administered correctly.

I could easily spend several paragraphs on this subject, and I'm too lazy to do it now. But spankings do have their place.

[~Rocktar~]

At first I thought this thread was some sort of joke. Corporal punishment in the United States, are you freaking kidding me? Didn't we mature away from this concept decades ago?

And just how effective have our current methods of discipline, or lack thereof, been?

I would be all for this as long as it was on par with the caning the kid in Singapore got. Seriously, how many petty crimes would be better delt with by 4 strokes of caning or some other variant, maybe some hospital care if needed and 6 months or a year of mandatory therapy vs 1-5 in the state pen?

[Candor]

And just how effective have our current methods of discipline, or lack thereof, been?

I would be all for this as long as it was on par with the caning the kid in Singapore got. Seriously, how many petty crimes would be better delt with by 4 strokes of caning or some other variant, maybe some hospital care if needed and 6 months or a year of mandatory therapy vs 1-5 in the state pen?

How effective do you think caning is going to be? You will have criminals out on the street faster with a desire for revenge.

But what really worries me is the can of worms being opened here. What if caning doesn't work? Do we start moving to starvation? Chemical solutions? Torture?

I very much appreciate the need to reduce the number of people who view crime as a career choice, but I don't think this is the answer.

[Tgo01]

But what really worries me is the can of worms being opened here. What if caning doesn't work? Do we start moving to starvation? Chemical solutions? Torture?

We can only hope!

[Latrinsorm]

And just how effective have our current methods of discipline, or lack thereof, been?That's an interesting question, do you have any statistical analysis to contribute on it?

[~Rocktar~]

That's an interesting question, do you have any statistical analysis to contribute on it?

Do you?

[Latrinsorm]

No, that's why I asked.