Obama Announces Package of New Gun Laws

[ClydeR]

It will be at 11:55 am, and you can watch it live on the White House website or on c-span.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Pres-Obama-to-Announce-Steps-to-Reduce-Gun-Violence/10737437289/

What an odd time. Not noon, but 11:55.

[nocturnix]

What an odd time. Not noon, but 11:55.

Maybe they wanted to avoid the inevitable "at high-noon" references?

[Tgo01]

Isn't tee time at noon? Maybe Obama is going to wrap this up fast.

[Parkbandit]

Isn't tee time at noon? Maybe Obama is going to wrap this up fast.

No way. He has a TelePrompTer and kids he can use. That'll take 30 minutes easy.

[Parkbandit]

Why would autocorrect change teleprompter to that? Fucking phone.

[Some Rogue]

Why would autocorrect change teleprompter to that? Fucking phone.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a64/lrenzo2/909685dc-33e7-411a-bfca-161988e3a796jpg_zps35c5eab5.jpg

[Buckwheet]

16. "Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes."

Hey doc, I have this nasty case of crabs, can you help me out?

That depends, do you have guns in your home?

[Parkbandit]

Hey doc, I have this nasty case of crabs, can you help me out?

That depends, do you have guns in your home?

LOL.

That's the logic of our government for you...

[Adleree]

It will be at 11:55 am, and you can watch it live on the White House website or on c-span.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/live

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Pres-Obama-to-Announce-Steps-to-Reduce-Gun-Violence/10737437289/

What an odd time. Not noon, but 11:55.
Prior to Obama's announcement Wednesday, the New Jersey Star-Ledger said the gun control was really about an issue few have mentioned, profits.

[Jarvan]

LOL.

That's the logic of our government for you...

You know.. right now his exec order says the Dr MAY ask the patient if they have guns. Wouldn't take much to change that MAY to a SHALL.

[Parkbandit]

You know.. right now his exec order says the Dr MAY ask the patient if they have guns. Wouldn't take much to change that MAY to a SHALL.

What do they believe will be accomplished by this and most of these Executive "Actions"? A docter may ask me? Go ahead.. ask away. How many law abiding citizens will give them an honest answer? That number will probably be very low (except the ones that really don't have a gun in the home).. but not as low as a criminal who has a gun at home.

[Androidpk]

What do they believe will be accomplished by this and most of these Executive "Actions"? A docter may ask me? Go ahead.. ask away. How many law abiding citizens will give them an honest answer? That number will probably be very low (except the ones that really don't have a gun in the home).. but not as low as a criminal who has a gun at home.

Didn't you watch him speak? It's to protect our children!

I tuned him out after he mentioned that the second time, what a crock of bullshit.

[Chaddy]

Hey doc, I have this nasty case of crabs, can you help me out?

That depends, do you have guns in your home?

I think it is more along the lines of, "I understand that you were shot, did this incident occur in your house with your firearm?" I could be wrong though.

[Jarvan]

I think it is more along the lines of, "I understand that you were shot, did this incident occur in your house with your firearm?" I could be wrong though.

No, generally this is supposed to be a mental health professional asking if you own a gun. Likely if you say anything that could indicate that maybe you would one day use it on people. Sadly, from what I have heard said. Depression can be considered a reason to be reported by your dr. last I checked, 99.99% of the country could be considered depressed at some point or another.

[Parkbandit]

I think it is more along the lines of, "I understand that you were shot, did this incident occur in your house with your firearm?" I could be wrong though.

No, that isn't it at all. That is already the law.. if someone goes to the doctor with a gunshot would they are legally bound to call law enforcement.

This is exactly how Buckwheet illustrated. Go in for the flu or a checkup and your doctor 'may' ask you about firearms in your home. The only way this will work as intended is if each doctor had Wonder Woman's magic lasso.

It's bullshit.

[Tenlaar]

This is the same reaction you had to the nutritional information requirements - take the absolute stupidest possible interpretation and be outraged by it.

If you think you are going to go to a doctor with the flu and they will ask if you own guns, you are a dumbass.

[Jarvan]

This is the same reaction you had to the nutritional information requirements - take the absolute stupidest possible interpretation and be outraged by it.

If you think you are going to go to a doctor with the flu and they will ask if you own guns, you are a dumbass.

Oddly enough, the absolute stupidest possible interpretation of the nutritional information requirements, was exactly correct. The Law states clearly that each possible menu item has to be listed. As the law is written, a Dr. very well MAY ask you if you own a gun if you go in for a skinned knee. is it likely the Dr. will? No. Are you likely to tell the truth, fuck no.

Just like if I was seeing a therapist, and they suddenly ask me if I own a gun, my response will be No. I do not own a gun. Looking over the orders, I didn't notice anything in there making it illegal (which he couldn't have done anyway that would require a law) to lie to a therapist. In all honesty, before I would see a therapist, I would likely ask them their stance on gun ownership. I do hope they start collecting data. It would be VERY interesting if the number of people reported was higher for Dem/liberal leaning Dr's and Dr's that are for gun control, compared to ones that are not.

Actually.. that would be an interesting thing. Could a Therapist advertise as a gun owner, and thereby friendly to gun owners?

[Tgo01]

"Alright Mr. Smith, bend over the table there and we'll get this rectal exam under way."
"While I have you in this position Mr. Smith, do you own any guns?" /sound of a latex glove smacking echos throughout the entire hospital.

[msconstrew]

Oddly enough, the absolute stupidest possible interpretation of the nutritional information requirements, was exactly correct. The Law states clearly that each possible menu item has to be listed. As the law is written, a Dr. very well MAY ask you if you own a gun if you go in for a skinned knee. is it likely the Dr. will? No. Are you likely to tell the truth, fuck no.

Just like if I was seeing a therapist, and they suddenly ask me if I own a gun, my response will be No. I do not own a gun. Looking over the orders, I didn't notice anything in there making it illegal (which he couldn't have done anyway that would require a law) to lie to a therapist. In all honesty, before I would see a therapist, I would likely ask them their stance on gun ownership. I do hope they start collecting data. It would be VERY interesting if the number of people reported was higher for Dem/liberal leaning Dr's and Dr's that are for gun control, compared to ones that are not.

Actually.. that would be an interesting thing. Could a Therapist advertise as a gun owner, and thereby friendly to gun owners?

I am just thinking of the sign involved with this. "OPEN CARRY HERE! COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY WHILE U WAIT FOR THE RANGE TO OPEN!"

I think it's probably unlikely that a therapist would ask a patient if s/he owns a gun. It's much more likely that a patient would make a statement that makes the therapist think, "Huh, this wo/man is going to go kill him/herself or a bunch of other people," and then call the authorities... which is basically what they do now.

I guess I tend to think people are pretty honest with their therapists. I would tell mine that I owned a gun, if I owned one and she asked.

[Tenlaar]

Oddly enough, the absolute stupidest possible interpretation of the nutritional information requirements, was exactly correct. The Law states clearly that each possible menu item has to be listed. As the law is written, a Dr. very well MAY ask you if you own a gun if you go in for a skinned knee. is it likely the Dr. will? No. Are you likely to tell the truth, fuck no.

I am sure I'm going to drive by Sonic one day and see a menu with 400,000 drinks on it. As soon as that happens I will be happy to admit that there are asinine requirements. And if it doesn't happen you guys can admit that you were just running with something ridiculous.

Now, to the topic at hand, tell me this: what was keeping a doctor from asking if you own a gun before? Anything? Anything at all? This just states that the new regulations are not prohibiting it either.

[Jarvan]

I am sure I'm going to drive by Sonic one day and see a menu with 400,000 drinks on it. As soon as that happens I will be happy to admit that there are asinine requirements. And if it doesn't happen you guys can admit that you were just running with something ridiculous.

Now, to the topic at hand, tell me this: what was keeping a doctor from asking if you own a gun before? Anything? Anything at all? This just states that the new regulations are not prohibiting it either.

Honestly, a Dr could have asked you if you were a transvestite hooker, and still can. Like I said.. I honestly think they added the MAY so that one day they can change it to SHALL. otherwise there was no reason to do that order.

As for your first statement.. Well.. since there is a bill trying to be passed to correct the current law to what you think the law already says, if that passes then yes you won't see the sign. As it stands now, I think most places will just basically tell the Gov to go to hell and fine them.

[Latrinsorm]

No, generally this is supposed to be a mental health professional asking if you own a gun. Likely if you say anything that could indicate that maybe you would one day use it on people. Sadly, from what I have heard said. Depression can be considered a reason to be reported by your dr. last I checked, 99.99% of the country could be considered depressed at some point or another.I encourage you to consult a mental health professional about this. There's a big distinction between clinical depression and what the layperson refers to as "depressed", the same way feeling anxious is not necessarily equal to having an anxiety disorder. It's unfortunate that the field of mental health didn't give fancy names to their disorders, it would prevent a lot of misunderstandings such as yours.
Honestly, a Dr could have asked you if you were a transvestite hooker, and still can. Like I said.. I honestly think they added the MAY so that one day they can change it to SHALL. otherwise there was no reason to do that order.The reason was that some people felt certain other laws meant MAY NOT. Sometimes the innocuous explanation is actually the case.

[Whirlin]

Depression and the desire / mental capacity to inflict substantial amount of harm to ones self or others are two very distinct things.

There's a pretty big line between being a bit depressed and being suicidal. It's also a pretty big leap to then desire to want to inflict that type of harm on others.

[Jarvan]

I encourage you to consult a mental health professional about this. There's a big distinction between clinical depression and what the layperson refers to as "depressed", the same way feeling anxious is not necessarily equal to having an anxiety disorder. It's unfortunate that the field of mental health didn't give fancy names to their disorders, it would prevent a lot of misunderstandings such as yours.The reason was that some people felt certain other laws meant MAY NOT. Sometimes the innocuous explanation is actually the case.

Sorry to burst your bubble, been there, done that. I am perfectly healthy mental wise.

May I encourage you to see a Dr for your Erectile Problems? See what I did there, I made an assumption about you for no reason. Are you a mental health professional? I know a few, and they all say that depending what definition of depression they use at a given time, anyone could be diagnosed as clinically depressed.

Hell, I know a Dr that diagnoses 60% of all the kids he sees as Autistic. And no, he does not specialize in it. Dr's can use such broad definitions that I am sure you could be considered autistic.

[Jarvan]

Depression and the desire / mental capacity to inflict substantial amount of harm to ones self or others are two very distinct things.

There's a pretty big line between being a bit depressed and being suicidal. It's also a pretty big leap to then desire to want to inflict that type of harm on others.

Actually, that is the point. The way the law in NY and some of the Exec Orders read. It doesn't mater. If a person has a certain diagnosis, they are reported. The person doesn't have to say "Man I want to kill myself" or "you know, sometimes I think about walking into work and going from cubicle to cubicle blowing people away with my ar-15". Case in point. My cousin was diagnosed as Bi-polar. No one in our family has ever seen any symptoms from her that she is. She has never once tried to commit suicide, or said or did anything that would indicate she is a danger to anyone. Under NY's law, she would be reported, and her guns confiscated.

[Latrinsorm]

Sorry to burst your bubble, been there, done that. I am perfectly healthy mental wise.

May I encourage you to see a Dr for your Erectile Problems? See what I did there, I made an assumption about you for no reason.All I said was to consult the expert about the relevant field. If I recommended you consult an archaeologist about the Incas, would you have accused me of assuming you were an Inca?
Are you a mental health professional? I know a few, and they all say that depending what definition of depression they use at a given time, anyone could be diagnosed as clinically depressed.Yes, this is my point. There is a common definition of depression that does not reflect the medical definition. These false cognates exist in almost any field.
Hell, I know a Dr that diagnoses 60% of all the kids he sees as Autistic. And no, he does not specialize in it. Dr's can use such broad definitions that I am sure you could be considered autistic.If you're saying there are doctors who are bad at being doctors (apparently including massive breaches of confidentiality), I agree but must ask in what way that is relevant to the matter at hand.

[Jarvan]

All I said was to consult the expert about the relevant field. If I recommended you consult an archaeologist about the Incas, would you have accused me of assuming you were an Inca?Yes, this is my point. There is a common definition of depression that does not reflect the medical definition. These false cognates exist in almost any field.If you're saying there are doctors who are bad at being doctors (apparently including massive breaches of confidentiality), I agree but must ask in what way that is relevant to the matter at hand.

Well, a Dr' diagnoses you as Bi-polar, and the fed takes your guns. Just imagine how hard it would be to get that right back.

[Latrinsorm]

I imagine it would be pretty easy. It's not like we throw people in sanitariums these days, we have treatments and medications. Get a diagnosis of the disease being in remission, get your guns back, profit.

I also imagine that were I to be diagnosed with such a serious mental health issue, being able to legally have guns would be way, way, way down on my list of things to care about.

[Tenlaar]

Thread: Obama Announces Package of New Gun Laws

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr6174 Please get an education.

Thank you so much anonymous rep giver. Why, if it wasn't for you showing me the thing I know about that proves my point, I never would have known that I was right. They put down some perfectly reasonable rules, a bunch of retarded ass people interpreted it in the most retarded way possible and were OOOUUUUTTRAAAAAGED, so now they have to change the language to be more retard-proof.

[Tgo01]

They put down some perfectly reasonable rules, a bunch of retarded ass people interpreted it in the most retarded way possible and were OOOUUUUTTRAAAAAGED, so now they have to change the language to be more retard-proof.

I'm no lawyer but I think making the law as retard proof as possible is the best way to go.

Just ask those who wrote the constitution.

[Showal]

Weird. I've apparently broken the law if I couldn't ask in the past if a patient owned a gun. The usual pattern in talking with a mental health patient is to ask outright whether they want to hurt themselves or others. If yes, ask if they have a plan. If yes, ask if they have access to weapons. All intents to cause harm to ones self or others need to be taken seriously, but they're evaluated on true risk potential. If I said I had a plan to cause harm to my town and my plan was to release my dragon that I've been training in my basement for the last few weeks, I'd be considered a low risk. If I said my plan was to take my friend's guns when he's at work and shoot people, it's considered high risk. This really does not change anything. And I'm quite sure a simple diagnosis of clinical depression is not criteria enough to remove your guns by itself.

No, your doctor will not say "Before we discuss your cold, let's discuss if you own guns." A doctor may ask about gun ownership in the case of expecting parents, just like they'll commonly ask about car seat ownership and provide means for education on childproofing a home.

And this doctor ... 60% of all kids he sees ... autism. It's actually not that broad of a diagnosis. Do you even know what the diagnostic criteria is? I'm calling bullshit because this is one of the most absurd claims I've seen. You have access to the patient files? You really believe this? 6 out of every 10 kids who leave the office are now recognized as autistic? This is really a stupid claim, even for you, Jarvan.

[Warriorbird]

Weird. I've apparently broken the law if I couldn't ask in the past if a patient owned a gun. The usual pattern in talking with a mental health patient is to ask outright whether they want to hurt themselves or others. If yes, ask if they have a plan. If yes, ask if they have access to weapons. All intents to cause harm to ones self or others need to be taken seriously, but they're evaluated on true risk potential. If I said I had a plan to cause harm to my town and my plan was to release my dragon that I've been training in my basement for the last few weeks, I'd be considered a low risk. If I said my plan was to take my friend's guns when he's at work and shoot people, it's considered high risk. This really does not change anything. And I'm quite sure a simple diagnosis of clinical depression is not criteria enough to remove your guns by itself.

No, your doctor will not say "Before we discuss your cold, let's discuss if you own guns." A doctor may ask about gun ownership in the case of expecting parents, just like they'll commonly ask about car seat ownership and provide means for education on childproofing a home.

And this doctor ... 60% of all kids he sees ... autism. It's actually not that broad of a diagnosis. Do you even know what the diagnostic criteria is? I'm calling bullshit because this is one of the most absurd claims I've seen. You have access to the patient files? You really believe this? 6 out of every 10 kids who leave the office are now recognized as autistic? This is really a stupid claim, even for you, Jarvan.

But, but, if you take their guns they might have an incident! And then after they shoot themselves or someone else they might have a VERY HARD time getting their guns back and that's taking their RIGHTS!

[Showal]

But, but, if you take their guns they might have an incident! And then after they shoot themselves or someone else they might have a VERY HARD time getting their guns back and that's taking their RIGHTS!

And if someone is bipolar and committed, isn't it their right to bring their own property to the hospital? And isn't it their 2nd amendment to bring THEIR GUNS to the hospital? Only if the primary doctor of the patient is a gun supporting citizen of 'murica.

[Aryeh]

I'm no lawyer but I think making the law as retard proof as possible is the best way to go.

Just ask those who wrote the constitution.

I'm not exactly sure how to interpret this.

Are you saying the the founders wrote the constitution to be as retard proof as possible, or are you suggesting that they failed to do so.

I'm going to have to go with the latter simply because of all the "2nd amendment" debates going on.

[Tgo01]

I'm not exactly sure how to interpret this.

Are you saying the the founders wrote the constitution to be as retard proof as possible, or are you suggesting that they failed to do so.

I'm going to have to go with the latter simply because of all the "2nd amendment" debates going on.

Good job.