Lisu Log

[StrayRogue]

Either way, prostitution was a huge part of medevil life. A common part. Now, I am not condoning what Lisu may have done etc, but what goes on behind closed doors, is whomever's buisness. If she does not know the age of whomever she "frequents" she is not to blame. Beyond that I don't really care.

[Weedmage Princess]

Question for you, Stray Rogue. So, since it's so easily accessible, do you think it's right?

Because a 9 year old can get to porn easily on a computer...means it's okay for Simu to present Gemstone to the general public as a family oriented game in which persons of all ages can and should participate...when that isn't the case?

In some of your less aware communities, a pedophile with a bag full of candy can also easily drive up the local school and lure a child into his/her vehicle, take them off and molest them...is it okay..since the children are so easily accessible to them?

No one is arguing how easy it is for minors to get access to things they shouldn't....they're trying to say more should be done about it. Personally, I don't know everything that Lisu did...It's been like 8-9 months since I've been in prime..and even then it was just to get my character together to be sold...so I'm clueless...but if she was ran off just because she roleplayed her character as a prostitute...I think it's a shame. I also don't think Gemstone should be marketed as a "family-oriented" game. There should be a disclaimer, and I wouldn't mind at all if it was an 18+ game.

BUT...this would mean Simu would have to sit down and make a decision..which could possibly mean them losing a few bucks. Don't expect it.

[StrayRogue]

It tells you it is a fantasy world. Hell, most of the uber high class RP people in this game regale me with tales of cyber sex etc. Its Roleplaying to them. The warning given to parents does not mention anything specific. Do you think SIMU want to say that their child may be put in a situation where Sex could occur? Do you think SIMU wants to not sell its product. I thought more of you Artha. I didn't think a little T&A would put you off. Ah well, you learn to ignore the prudes, idiots, and RP wussies in time...

[StrayRogue]

Princess: No I do not think it is right. However, I am of the opinion the person who cares for the child, the parent or guardian, should take responsibility for what their charge gets up too. It is not the porno sites fault the child visit's it. Nor is it the people on that site who are doing their buisness. Just like it isn't Lisu's fault (purely hypothetical) goes with a 14 year old that she is unaware of.

[Vesi]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Gore, slaying, mass attempted genocide, evil regilions, thievery, half-races, and some people get a little antsy when a prostitute comes about. Heh. Fucking losers.

What's wrong with half-races? That sounds a bit racist.


Originally posted by StrayRogue

No, the problem pretty much lies with perceptions and censorship. The US has a shit system. You can see someone getting shot, or have their brains beat out, but never breasts, or anything explicit like that. GS, is very american in this respect. Prudes.

I'm American and very far from being a prude. Please try to avoid 'lumping' people together. By trying to display how tolerant you are, you are showing tons of intolerance.

Vesi

[Artha]

Either way, prostitution was a huge part of medevil life. A common part.

I don't think so, atleast for the common people. They had to give almost everything to the Church, and to the lord of the lands they were on. There wasn't enough time for most of them, as they had to work from dawn to dusk on the fields most days, and well, after you're done pushing a plow, I'd think you'd be too tired to push a ho (pun intended, of course :))

[Mistomeer]

It's not as if I care about the prostitution, however, the letter to parents says it's a PG to PG13 rated game, nowhere does it mention that in-game currency can be used to purchase cybersex. I think that if they're going to let it go on that blatently and openly (Selling it on the Net) they should at least let parents know in their letter to parents. On another note, I'm glad to see her gone.

[Tsa`ah]

A Letter to Parents

Dear Parents,

My name is Eric. I'm the father of five children and in addition to being a game producer for Simutronics, I worked for over six years as the Product Manager of Simutronics' Multiplayer Roleplaying Game, DragonRealms. I understand, as a parent, that you feel concern for your child's welfare in the mysterious and sometimes cryptic realm of text-based on-line games. To help you understand what we are all about, I've written this letter to inform you about our company, our games, and the sorts of activities you can expect your child to be participating in.

The majority of our games are text-based multiplayer games run by our IFE (Interactive Fiction Engine). Each of our IFE games supports a unique environment in which users role-play (that is, play act) their characters. Like actors on a stage, when players role-play, they assume the identity of the character that they have created, acting as if they were a real adventurer in a strange new world.

If you've ever read Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy or C. S. Lewis's Chronicles of Narnia; if you've ever seen the movie "Neverending Story" or Disney's "Fantasia", then you will have an idea what our games are all about. We create fantasy worlds in which players get to pretend to be the characters of the book rather than reading about them. In many ways, our players are writing their own story.

As far as winning the game goes, that is entirely up to the players. They decide what the goals are within the game, and then work to achieve those goals. Some may want to be the most powerful Mage, or the most respected Empath. Some may simply want to play the role of an honorable Warrior who rescues people in distress and combats the evil monsters that invaded the land. Some players measure success by the amount of personal wealth that they amass. In the end, it's the player that decides how their story will play out and what it is they want to achieve.

Many people play our games at the same time, from various online services and the Internet. As players wander around the game, they will encounter other players and be able to interact with them in a variety of ways. Interaction between players can take many forms, from simply sitting in the town square chatting with other players, to working together to solve a puzzle, or heading off into the wilds in search of adventure.

Indeed, the mechanics of our games emphasize cooperation rather than competition. Players must work together in teams in order to effectively fight invading creatures, or solve complex puzzles. They are not encouraged to compete for resources or combat each other in battle. Communication skills are utilized with regularity, encouraging improvement in language, typing and grammar skills. In addition, the anonymity granted by the simulated text-based environment allows shy children to feel less threatened and freer to socialize in a healthy atmosphere where player interaction is regulated by a staff of over 150 GameMasters.

Few online gaming companies have more experience than Simutronics, which has produced online games for ten years. We have received the prestigious "Member's Choice Award" from AOL, the "Online Game of the Year, 1993 Award" from Computer Gaming World Magazine for CyberStrike, and received both teenage and child approval ratings from Microsystems.

At Simutronics, we care about promoting a family atmosphere that can allow players of all ages to participate in and enjoy our games. Day and night our GameMasters monitor for public incidents of vulgarity, sexually explicit language, unlawful conduct and harassment. Repeat offenders may find themselves locked out of the games for a period of time up to three months, or indefinitely. A safe, healthy environment is very important to our staff, which specifically designs the games in order to promote teamwork and creativity.

There is a lot of talk these days about the dangers of the Internet. Much of these concerns are similar to the concerns we all have as parents when our children go to the shopping mall or camping or even school. We want our children to be safe but still be able to enjoy their life. When a child has a problem at school, he/she can go find a teacher who can then protect them. When a player has a problem with someone in our games, he/she can instantly contact a GameMaster for help.

In many ways, our games are a safer place than the local park or playground. Your child can simply log off if needed. Safety is as close as typing QUIT. If someone harasses your child in real life, he/she may not be able to get help right away. In our games, help is as close as typing REPORT. Wouldn't you feel better if your child in real life could get help instantly when needed?

While our games are maintained as a safe environment (GameMasters work hard to keep it that way), the same common sense cautions apply to our games as they do to any place you allow your child to attend. While GameMasters have the capability to monitor anything that happens in the game, they can't monitor everything all the time. So, we highly encourage you to watch what your child is doing in the game. Pop in unexpectedly from time to time and watch and ask questions.

But does that make us a "G" rated game? No, we consider ourselves a "PG" or even "PG-13" (we have some graphic descriptions of violence in our combat) game. It's not for every child. Naturally, we encourage parents to guide their children in the use of the game. Our standards might not be your standards.

Our game has thousands of other people who can potentially interact with your child and we cannot guarantee that they will behave themselves appropriately all the time. There's nothing that we can put in place that can replace you as a parent. No matter how safe we make the our games, we hope that every parent will still monitor their child's activity in the game.

I've watched my child (aged 13) play DragonRealms and she has become a better reader, a better typist (she went from hunt and peck to touch typing), learned how to communicate more clearly, learned better how to interact with others responsibly and has grown socially and creatively. I believe this can happen to your child as well. In fact, they'll be enjoying themselves so much that they won't even realize how much they are learning.

Yours sincerely,

Eric Slick
Simutronics Game Producer

P.S. If you ever have questions about your child's behavior in the game or have other questions which this letter didn't cover or answer adequately, you can write to custserv@simutronics.com.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That is the full letter to the parents, unedited. It can be found here:
http://www.play.net/gs3/cservice/letter_parents.asp

Tell me, were you a parent reading that, would you expect your child to be propositioned by a prostitute in game?

This is part of what we are debating.

[StrayRogue]

Half-races and pariahs: Well, my earstwhile American padre, lets read the Game documentation. I direct you to the numerous references to Half-Races (please remember this is saying Half-Races are good, IRL of course they are), being generally products of rape, or hatred. They are hated. Rascism is rampant in this game. I guess we should tone this down for the kiddies too. Let me guess, you are one of these people who take offense when I call you a white skinned, dumb human piece of shit. IG of course.

[CrystalTears]

There have always been prostitutes in the game, and there has always been cybersex.

The problem apparently that was happening in this particular instance that was bothering people was that 1) she was advertising herself to the public, 2) she wasn't screening her clientele therefore not caring if she was soliciting a minor, and 3) she was posting logs of private sessions without the consent of the other person.

No one told her to not roleplay a prostitute, they were just saying to be careful about who she was selling herself to, in which she seemed to not mind what she was doing, nor does she care still to this day since she blames the rest of the Gemstone community for her actions rather than herself.

Had she been more descreet and conscientious of what she was doing, this wouldn't have been such a large issue.

[StrayRogue]

As for prostitution not being a large part of medevil life...Artha, read some grown up books. Or visit some medevil countries.

[StrayRogue]

CrystalTears, I totally agree with your post there.

[Kurili]

I very much agree, Crystal Tears. Very well put.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
OK, idiots. I am trying to sell a product. There are bad sides to my product. Being the capitalist, money leeching fucker I am, do I:
A) Tell the whole truth, warts and all about my product?
B) Lie?
C) Create a selling standpoint that highlights and good points, and merely skirts over the darker issues?

I will give whomever tells me what SIMU have done, a cookie.

Simu has performed D.

D) Misrepresent the product.

[CrystalTears]

I'd also like to point out that there are SEVERAL online text games that specifically state that adult themes such as sex, violence, rape and incest may or will occur, and lo and behold, people play those games as well. Even games like Sims Online state that should you have an R-rated residence to state it in the description so that people will be aware of it before entering. I'm sure that game has children playing but at least there it plainly states that there are adult situations present.

Simu will never know how their product will hold up if they would be forthcoming in their advertising and contracts.

[StrayRogue]

I think SIMU deflects alot of this sort of attention simply by NOT advertising.

[CrystalTears]

All they have to do is say in their advertising is, "Gemstone III - an adult roleplaying text game". The meaning will be understood. In the contract they will state which adult theme will be present. There is nothing wrong with that, it would be honest, and the people would know exactly what they are getting into. With games, you have to be honest with the clientele about your product.

[StrayRogue]

I don't know. Whenever something is advertises as adult, I get a funny feeling in my crotch. Perhaps just have the warning in the small print.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I think SIMU deflects alot of this sort of attention simply by NOT advertising.

The web site is considered advertising. Interviewing with gaming magazines is considered advertising. The letter to the parents is considered advertising. Participating in top mud polls is considered advertising. Accepting a rating from the ESRB is advertising

Simu does indeed advertise.

[Parkbandit]

Any game that allows open expression in text cannot be considered a family game. There is no way to stop people from typing "I want to fuck you". I can say that about a hundred different ways... so you can't ever stop me from getting my point across.

I want to F u ck you.
I want to FOCK you.
I want to F()ck you.
I want to Fvck you.

At some point in time, we need to hold parents more accountable for the actions of their kids. To hold any text based game responsible is not very sensible.

[StrayRogue]

Heh, thanks for the support there ParkBandit. Simu is underadvertised. I am shocked there is not more time and money spent advertising H&X. A little sign should be tacked onto the end of each episode etc. It should be advertised in Computer Magazines etc. It is "out-there" but not much.

[Vesi]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Half-races and pariahs: Well, my earstwhile American padre, lets read the Game documentation. I direct you to the numerous references to Half-Races (please remember this is saying Half-Races are good, IRL of course they are), being generally products of rape, or hatred. They are hated. Rascism is rampant in this game. I guess we should tone this down for the kiddies too. Let me guess, you are one of these people who take offense when I call you a white skinned, dumb human piece of shit. IG of course.

I don't want anything toned down. If you look back over this thread, you will not see one post from me comdemning what was going on. Actually, I think my only post was that children should be sexually informed at an early age. It's such a long thread I could have made another post or two, but I never once commented on how I felt about what Lisu was doing.

However, you keep mixing in game comments with real life comments. I don't see any Americans in Gemstone, but by golly according to you, they're the root of everything that's wrong with it. So excuse me for saying that you were being racist by using half-breeds as an example. You just hate Americans. I get it right this time?

Vesi

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I think SIMU deflects alot of this sort of attention simply by NOT advertising.

The web site is considered advertising. Interviewing with gaming magazines is considered advertising. The letter to the parents is considered advertising. Participating in top mud polls is considered advertising. Accepting a rating from the ESRB is advertising

Simu does indeed advertise.

Doesn't the ESRB rate the game for themselves though? I didn't think Simutronics had any say in that manner.

[Meriman]

I'm not sure how many of you know me, from in game experiences, so I'll explain my reason for responding to this whole string of posts.

Meriman (that's my charcter) is currently Married in game to a wonderful woman who makes him realize how great life is every day.

Before that, he was ::ponders:: quite liberal with his body, some can attest to it some can't. He never ever said he was the best at what he did, but he tried his best, and I think Lisu does to and that's what counts.

Do I think she's the best out there no, but others do. Can you get sex for free in gemstone? Yes, can you pay for it if you want to? Yes. It all comes down to choices, if Huka enjoyed himself up until he ripped her off thats his choice, if Lisu enjoys what she does, thats her choice

I'm sure from seeing her log, that she pays attention to details and I would like to think that she, as I once did worries about the age of her partner, can we ever be truly sure? No. Can we do our best yes and I would think that she does.

She plays a whore, ho, hostess, whatever word you want to use, doesn't really matter they all mean the same thing, does she have a right to roleplay as she chooses, as much as you may disagree? Yes, she pays the same amount of money as everyone else for that right, you roleplay your way she roleplays hers, just because you don't agree doesn't mean she's wrong. Doing something different from your ideals doesn't make someone wrong, it makes them different. Imagine if we all thought the same and acted the same, freaky world to live in.

If this post is jumpy and weird looking sorry I'm on little to no sleep when I finished these posts but I wanted to post before I forgot what i was thinking.

::ponders::
All comes down to choices, everyone makes them, and everyone has to face the consequences, if you can put a positive spin on it, hey go for it.

Let her live her own life, and you live yours, cause it takes a lot of guts to nitpick the flaws of someone else, when you probably have flaws of your own.

I have flaws, I deal with them but I don't see the point in attacking someone cause you don't agree ::shrugs::

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Vesi

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Half-races and pariahs: Well, my earstwhile American padre, lets read the Game documentation. I direct you to the numerous references to Half-Races (please remember this is saying Half-Races are good, IRL of course they are), being generally products of rape, or hatred. They are hated. Rascism is rampant in this game. I guess we should tone this down for the kiddies too. Let me guess, you are one of these people who take offense when I call you a white skinned, dumb human piece of shit. IG of course.

I don't want anything toned down. If you look back over this thread, you will not see one post from me comdemning what was going on. Actually, I think my only post was that children should be sexually informed at an early age. It's such a long thread I could have made another post or two, but I never once commented on how I felt about what Lisu was doing.

However, you keep mixing in game comments with real life comments. I don't see any Americans in Gemstone, but by golly according to you, they're the root of everything that's wrong with it. So excuse me for saying that you were being racist by using half-breeds as an example. You just hate Americans. I get it right this time?

Vesi

This game is built and designed with American's primarily in mind. Every other race, country etc, comes second. I shall take back this comment the moment, Katana's, and other ethnic clothing, proper spelling (its fucking ARMOUR), and multi-time-zoned events occur.

[CrystalTears]

Armor and armour are the same thing. :P

[Artha]

Yeah, right. Next you're going to tell me a fetus is a foetus.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Armor and armour are the same thing. :P


Aghhhhhhhhhhhh.......! Must....kill....you

In all honesty, I don't care that its an american game played by american rules. I can live with that.

[imported_Kranar]

Simu does advertise, I've seen their ads on many MUD oriented sites from www.mudconnector.com to topmudsites.com to other forums where I'd estimate 10000s of people visit.

The mud community is absolutely HUGE like you wouldn't believe. Simu does indeed advertise Gemstone and DragonRealms (most DR) within such communities.

[Vesi]

Originally posted by Artha
Yeah, right. Next you're going to tell me a fetus is a foetus.

It is.:D

Vesi

[Artha]

It is. :D

BS.

[CrystalTears]

fetusn : an unborn or unhatched vertebrate in the later stages of development showing the main recognizable features of the mature animal
[syn: foetus] :P :P :P :P

[HarmNone]

I wish you well, Lisu, and bear you no malice. I hope you find a game that is more suited to your roleplay style, Lisu.

I do not believe that most people felt you needed to be gone from the game. I believe most people thought you needed to be more discreet. For myself, I would also have liked to see just a dollop of interest in taking personal responsibility for one's choices as an adult; that is, if you are an adult.

Your difficulties could have been mitigated had you not stubbornly refused to accept any responsibility for your behaviors. I believe that is what brought many people to anger.

HarmNone

[Artha]

fetusn : an unborn or unhatched vertebrate in the later stages of development showing the main recognizable features of the mature animal
[syn: foetus]

Alright...I'll give you fetus/foetus. However, humor should have no u.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Doesn't the ESRB rate the game for themselves though? I didn't think Simutronics had any say in that manner.

From http://www.esrb.com/esrbratings_faqs.asp

Who decides the ratings?

ESRB ratings are determined by a consensus of at least three specially trained raters. ESRB raters are of various ages and backgrounds, and to ensure their objectivity, are not permitted to have any ties to the computer and video game industry. ESRB raters are not expert game players, although they undergo extensive training about the rating system before beginning work. To protect the integrity of the rating system, ESRB does not disclose the individual identities of its raters.

How are the games rated?

To get a game certified with an ESRB rating, publishers fill out a detailed questionnaire explaining exactly what's in the game, and submit it to ESRB along with actual videotaped footage of the game, showing the most extreme content and an accurate representation of the context and product as a whole. Working independently, three trained raters then view the game footage and recommend the rating and content descriptors they believe are most appropriate. ESRB then compares the raters' recommendations to make sure that there's consensus. Usually, the raters agree and their recommendation becomes final. However, when the raters recommend different ratings, additional raters may be requested to review the game in order to reach broader consensus. Once consensus on a rating and content descriptors is reached, ESRB issues an official rating certificate to the game's publisher.

When the game is ready for release to the public, publishers send copies of the final product to the ESRB. The game packaging is reviewed to make sure the ratings are displayed in accordance with ESRB standards. Additionally, ESRB's in-house game experts randomly play the final games to verify that all the information provided during the rating process was accurate and complete.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm pretty sure Simu did not submit anything remotely resembling the Lisu log.

In addition, the submissions for a rating is completely voluntary and since the staff that rates these things are only viewing logs and footage, they are clueless beyond what the producers gives them.

[Skirmisher]

In many ways, our games are a safer place than the local park or playground. Your child can simply log off if needed. Safety is as close as typing QUIT. If someone harasses your child in real life, he/she may not be able to get help right away. In our games, help is as close as typing REPORT. Wouldn't you feel better if your child in real life could get help instantly when needed?


Amazing. They say it right there. Harassment MAY occur. They also say just how easy it is to stop it.

Nothing to see here, move along.




What's wrong with half-races? That sounds a bit racist.


Yeesh, come on and cut us all some slack. Thats really reaching to me it seems. Like he says the game is full of racism. Lets not try to deny that much. The reason I dont flip out over it is that it's a game, not real life.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by StrayRogue

No, the problem pretty much lies with perceptions and censorship. The US has a shit system. You can see someone getting shot, or have their brains beat out, but never breasts, or anything explicit like that. GS, is very american in this respect. Prudes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm American and very far from being a prude. Please try to avoid 'lumping' people together. By trying to display how tolerant you are, you are showing tons of intolerance.

Vesi

quote:


Well I also am an American and certainly don't think I'm very prudish but I think a more dispassionate view of the US would have to agree that there IS a higher level of prudishness regarding sex in the US than in say Europe for example. Stray can get a bit overenthusiastic however in his attempts to point out and ridicule what he sees as faults of the US culture.

It doesnt mean we're evil or anything, but lets not try to sweep the faults we do have under the rug or anything.

Better to mock the faults of others. Thats always more fun anyway.:D

[StrayRogue]

Nice post Skirmish. It is so nice I shall have to resort insulting your sexuality, as the rest is pretty much air-tight (unlike your ass).

Ahh, goodness.

[Skirmisher]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Nice post Skirmish. It is so nice I shall have to resort insulting your sexuality, as the rest is pretty much air-tight (unlike your ass).

Ahh, goodness.

Quit checking out my ass.

[StrayRogue]

I am only doing it make sure my own ass is not at risk from your wang of supression.

[Betheny]

How can you rate a game like Gemstone? The content and gameplay changes every time someone logs in or logs out.

[Myshel]

I have no problem with Lisu's role-playing.
I have no problem with Lisu's choice of profession.
I have no problem with Lisu's posting the log or reason's behind them.
What I had a problem with was her caviler approach to the problem of minors possibly purchasing her services. Her statement was that you had to be 18 to play GS,when everyone knows that a great many underage kids play. My take on that statement was she didn't care how old the person was she was cyber-screwing as long as they had the silver.

Myshel

[Warriorbird]

"Its like Warclaidhm; Everyone rags on this little guy (well for good reason, he is a little stupid), but how many of you actually go up to him in game with an open mind? "

Actually, I tried (like Parkbandit) too. It never sunk in. I remember tackling him in every single room of the Warrior Guild to try to make him get a clue about the directions to Bertrandt. That and him cheating people out of money, lying, and participating in the sales of duplicated items made me give up. Oh yah...and the OOCness...and the lack of coherency....and the lies and misrepresentation and sympathy seeking about his "age."

[Warriorbird]

I think Lisu could've done better if she'd had a little bit more tact and more of an ability to choose between the money and the cybersex. Probably just another teenage boy with raging hormones and a collection of Jacqueline Carey and Gor novels.

[Terrorize]

Originally posted by StrayRogue

Originally posted by Kurili
Almost makes you wonder if ten people who wrote Simu about an alleged blowjob were all lying, doesnt it? Someone was, I dont care to guess who. I just dont see that RP being suitable with kids here.

Hmm underage having sex sure. Underage having sex with an adult NO. They are 2 different things.

Someone please tell me the average age people are having sex over there. I know its below the legal limit. Just look at your underage and teenage pregnancy listings. Either way, I care not. You prattle on about hardcore stuff in GS being too much for kids, well then I challenge you to go to google, and type in Free Porn. How easy was that? Can any child with a modicom of intelligence replicate your actions just now?

[Terrorize]

Originally posted by Lisu
Well folks, you've won. Apparently many of you sent in Emails accusing me of doing various things that I clearly did not. At least one person out there has a dozen or so email accounts because the GMs I spoke to said they recieved a dozen emails about me giving someone a blowjob in town square. Now this is COMPLETELY false, but hey, a dozen emails. So you folks are so completely determined to enforce your will upon those in the game. So be it. You've won, I'll find a different RPG. Perhaps one with slightly more mature people. Maybe counterstrike, at least you know where the people in that game stand.

There is a difference in being mature and criticizing bad roleplay. Sorry if you are a baby and can't grow up. But I for one am really excited to hear this news. One less Klaive in the world of Gemstone.

[StrayRogue]

All I can say is, you bastards lost me 500k in a sale.

[Bobmuhthol]

All I can say is, "StrayRogue sucks at posting."

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
All I can say is, you bastards lost me 500k in a sale.

Let's all have a brief moment of silence in remembrance of Stray's dead sale.

:(
.
.
.
.
.
.

Nope, I still don't care. :rolleyes:

[Lisu]

I want to clarify something again. I didn't mind people calling me a whore. As much as I got trashed, I know you folks enjoyed trashing me, and so it was a good time all around. However, the reason I'm quitting is two-fold. First, the GMs saying I"m not allowed to advertise ANY services. Not counseling, not advice, not form a hunting party, 'anything' that could be interpreted by the most horny moron as me offering sex was prohibited. The other are the constant in-game physical attacks on me. I don't mean snide comments or flame, I mean people fogging to me, stunning me for five minutes, and poping out about every half hour. I got killed so many times while hunting by people who would fog/familiar gate to me, kill me, laugh and run away. I report it to the GMs, and they say 'oh we'll take care of it' and they don't do anything, because the same individuals do it a second, third, and fourth time AFTER the incident report to a GH. That's why I'm quitting folks, the GMs apparently feel that they only need to enforce policy against those they don't like, and I got on that list. It upsets me, but I suppose there's nothing I can do about it. I wish you all good luck in gemstone, and maybe someday the GMs will have a higher power that they answer to in the game instead of eachother.

[Lisu]

Oh and for reference, I haven't 'advertised' my services in weeks. That's right, I stopped advertising back when I was level 13, and i'm 18 now. My clientele came exclusively from people seeking ME out, I didn't go looking for them. Unfortunately, when I spoke to two senior GMs (at MY request to speak to them) to clarify the issue, they said I was not allowed to advertise anything that someone could interpret as dirty. So I couldn't offer 'skinning' services. I couldn't form a hunting party (Well someone could think it was 'humping' party), and I was basically restricted from ever expressing in public anything related to my roleplay. I agreed to their terms. I agreed that I would not advertise, that I would not talk in public about my 'profession', and all their other conditions. When I asked about what would be done regarding the people who were actively hunting me down repeatedly and killing me, they said that I had 'brought it on myself' (apparently killing prostitutes ISN"T a crime to them) and they wouldn't do anything. I objected, saying they were not enforcing policy fairly which is a violation of their own terms of service agreement, and they gave me a warn and locked me from the game. That's really bad. This game REALLY needs a 'higher authority' to keep the GMs in check. Would you really do your job if you didn't have to tell ANYONE the results of your work?

[Bobmuhthol]

"You deserve to be killed."
"But you can't do this, because I am a player and I enforce the rules!!"
"And I am a GM, you are now locked out."

You deserved it.

[Tsa`ah]

Hmm...

I really don't know what to say. On one hand I'm glad you agreed about not advertising, on the other I'm a bit miffed by how you were treated.

Unfortunately for you, the PC has been undulated in the past with "I was banned for no reason .... waaaaa!" posts. So it will be hard to garner any sympathy from those here. The sentiment is that no one is banned without a previous track record.

That you agreed on the "no advertising" stipulation is great. That is my positive mark for you. However, that you have never shown concern for you clientele potentially being a minor far outweighs that positive. I would have been satisfied with the loss of advertising and an attempt to show discretion.

If what you say is true, shame on Simu. There are very few in game that deserve to be offed with such impunity. Most of those that deserve that kind of treatment post on these boards, or are regularly mentioned.

For future reference, I rarely enjoy trashing an intelligent person. You stirred a very strong sense of resentment and irritation in most that participated, intelligently, in this thread. Not because you role-play a prostitute, but because you were potentially and indiscriminately causing harm to minors without any sense of responsibility or remorse. That in my book made you detestable.

Should you have been banned? Yes, the very first time you offered your services publicly. After proper warning of course and assuming you ignored those warning.

Should you have been banned after agreeing to the stipulation set down by the GMs? No, so long as you adhered to the agreement.

Should you have been PK'd without repercussion? Absolutely not.

I am of the belief that Simu products should be considered “adult only” in atmosphere. Were it such, I would have never had issues with Lisu or her player. You were aware when you signed up for the product that it was touted as a "family" game. Your indiscretions have come back to kick you in the ass it seems.

[Ulg]

That sucks Lisu. I've heard other people offer things on the amunet like selling another person, selling a kiss with someone, or selling their company.

Somehow I doubt those people will get the same kind of treatment. Of course, none of them have posted a log on the internet of what it is they do, so, that sort of bit you in the butt. Had that log never surfaced, this might not have happened.

That letter to families thing looks more like a marketing ploy than truth. Everyone who gets an account has to be 18+. This tells me the game was intended for 18+. The argument that parents need to take responsiblity for their children, not Simutronics, sounds right to me.

Also, I bought a naughty nymph musicbox recently. None of its description or messaging has anything sexual in it, but naughty when used by an adult is pretty obvious. Why would a little nymph that liked to dance be bad? Not to mention "nymph" which is the root of nymphomaniac.

[Edited on 8-27-2003 by Ulg]

[SpunGirl]

Lisu, you expected people to take you as you were (hostess, et cetera) because "it's my roleplay!" Now maybe (not likely, but maybe) the "roleplay" of the people hunting you down was that of a jealous wife, or perhaps a disease conscious citizen who didn't like the whore that was Lisu. After all, dirty street prostitutes were (and still are) horribly mistreated. Maybe that's what they figured you for and felt like having some fun stunning you, I donno.

If you were a totally innocent party I think Simu might have been willing to do something, however, they tend to shy away from backing up people that actively initiate controversy or irritate large groups of people (A la Garr). Sorry.

-K

[Artha]

Everyone who gets an account has to be 18+. This tells me the game was intended for 18+.

*breathing slowly*

You need to be 18+ to buy an account because when you are under 18, you are a minor, and not bound to contracts.

Third or fourth time this has been posted, and the second time i've bolded it.

[Ulg]

*breathing slowly*

You need to be 18+ to buy an account because when you are under 18, you are a minor, and not bound to contracts.

Third or fourth time this has been posted, and the second time i've bolded it.

Settle down there kiddo. I've read that. But thats not the point I was trying to make. I'll bold it again, just for you.

[quote]Everyone who gets an account has to be 18+. This tells me the game was intended for 18+.

[Bobmuhthol]

The game was intended for everyone. Die.

[Artha]

Yes...you're saying that because you have to be 18 to sign up for an account, it's intended for 18+ people.

I'm telling you you're wrong, and why.

[Ulg]

I'm telling you you're wrong, and why.

How do you know that what you are saying is right. Show me where it says thats why Simu made the age 18+ and I'll agree with you.

[Ulg]

The game was intended for everyone. Die.

I remember when I was a kid I wanted so badly to be an adult. Sorry, Bob, it takes time.

[Scott]

I would say the "letter to parents" is a clear answer to why this game is intended for children in simutronic's eyes.

[Artha]

How do you know that what you are saying is right. Show me where it says thats why Simu made the age 18+ and I'll agree with you.

This is me <(0.0)>

This is me pointing at law books. (>0.0)>

[The Cat In The Hat]

Somehow I doubt those people will get the same kind of treatment. Of course, none of them have posted a log on the Internet of what it is they do, so, that sort of bit you in the butt. Had that log never surfaced, this might not have happened.

I've been lurking around the boards for a while now and this is the first thing I've seen fit to respond to. I cant, however say much more than has already been said here, everyone's been doing quite a good job of flaming Lisu and some even applauding her.

I just wanted to say that the comment quoted fits the situation perfectly, Yes prostitution is morally wrong and you were getting away with it, but by posting that log you called a great deal of attention to yourself and that's what caused this big uproar and people writing the GM's. Ultimately, you brought it on yourself.

I also think that anyone that wrote to the GM's and "lied" about an incident to get ANYONE kicked from the lands is just as bad. You really should be ashamed of yourselves. If you don't think her real actions were bad enough to get her banned then apparently they really weren't.

Lisu, from what I saw WAS a good role-player, she just decided to RP someone that would cause controversy. I think she has every right to play as she sees fit, but I also think she should have been a bit more discreet.

With regard to age, you never can tell who's 12 and who's 21. It's a judgment call always. I've known people in the lands for 6 years, talked in IM's and got to know each other pretty well.. and only last week found out she's played by a man. The Internet is anonymous, always will be and if someone says they're 21 you have to judge for yourself if you believe them or not. If she just didn't care how old they were... well then... she needed to be stopped.

I don't think that she should have been locked out after agreeing to their terms.

Cat

(Edited just to fix your text so it's not all italic)

[Edited on 8-27-2003 by Gemstone101]

[Ulg]

This is me <(0.0)>

This is me pointing at law books. (>0.0)>

This is you without proof that is why Simu made the game 18+. <(X.X)>

[Drew2]

Hehe make more Kirby looking people. They're funny.

[Bobmuhthol]

<(0.0< ) (>0.0)> <(0.0< ) (>0.0)>

Look at Kirby dance!

[Edited on 8-27-2003 by Bobmuhthol]

[Artha]

Well, I did do a google search...no idea where to start looking for something quite that specific, however.

But, it's the reason most things require you to be 18 before signing up.

[Artha]

Oh, here's a kirby giving someone the finger.

t(0.0t) t(0.0t) t(0.0t) t(0.0t)

[Ulg]

I would say the "letter to parents" is a clear answer to why this game is intended for children in simutronic's eyes.

I read through it all and to me it looks like a marketing ploy. In that letter they even say to watch your children. If the 18+ thing really is a technicallity, then I wonder how young their limit would be.

And... when the game was initially designed and programmed, what ages did they intend it for?

[Sweets]

I have never heard of Lisu until this board discussion. Obviously her "wretched behaviour" wasn't all that wide spread.

Sex with minors? Should be avoided if cybering is to be accepted as it is. Any person cybering it up could potentially be with a minor. That's in defense of Lisu. HOWEVER! To show NO concern about it is repulsive


I also find the behaviour of Simu repulsive if that was how you were treated Lisu. They gave into peer pressure once again. Rather disappointing.

[Artha]

Sweets, you own a company. You have users in your company. A whole bunch of them claim one user is breaking the ToS. What do you do, and who do you listen to?

[Drew2]

I am deeming myself moderator and hereby closing this useless thread.

[CrystalTears]

So she was told by a GM that dozens of emails were sent about her blowing someone in public? I have yet to hear about GMs telling someone they're going to lock out specifics about the emails that were sent about them. I find that hard to swallow (no pun intended).

Again, I feel sorry for her and I think she may have been treated unfairly, and I don't always think that GMs do the right thing. HOWEVER we don't know the whole story, we don't know what reports or emails were sent, we don't know what they've seen that she's done, we only have her side to go on. So since we don't have a complete story, and we never will, I'll stand by the theory that she's not that innocent if she was banned.

[Edited on 8/27/2003 by CrystalTears]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Unfortunately for you, the PC has been undulated in the past with "I was banned for no reason .... waaaaa!" posts. So it will be hard to garner any sympathy from those here. The sentiment is that no one is banned without a previous track record.


If I had a nickel for every person that claimed they were locked out for no reason.. I'd own a park.

Oh wait... nevermind.

[Adhara]

I wish you well Lisu. I feel that you could have been, had some of your choices been more geared towards the young players, a good addition to the Gemstone player base.

An adult only mud that is less advertised will probably be a better environment for your kind of roleplay and I'm sure that in the end, you'll see that you moving was a good thing for everyone.

[imported_Kranar]

Well, the fact she got banned further reinforces the point of many that Gemstone is a game for people of all ages. I bet there will still be people desperately holding onto some pathetic technicality, but atleast for those of us intelligent enough to understand that children and people of all ages play Gemstone, we can rest assured that Simu is not allowing sexual predators in their game.

[Vesi]

Originally posted by Ulg
[quote]And... when the game was initially designed and programmed, what ages did they intend it for?

I do know the old god documents were much more racy than they are now. Thought I had them someplace. If I can find them, I'll post a couple.

Vesi

[Bobby]

Just thought this would pretty much sum up my opinion of this long topic.



http://www.creakyjoints.com/graphics/images/desktops/800x600/deadhorse_800x600.jpg

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Lisu
I want to clarify something again. I didn't mind people calling me a whore.

Since you were roleplaying a whore, it is well that you are not disturbed by being referred to as such.

Originally posted by Lisu
However, the reason I'm quitting is two-fold. First, the GMs saying I"m not allowed to advertise ANY services. Not counseling, not advice, not form a hunting party, 'anything' that could be interpreted by the most horny moron as me offering sex was prohibited.

Ahem. Excuse me? You felt yourself qualified to counsel others or offer advice?
1) I would like to see the qualifications that might make you suitable to counsel anyone.
2) Become a Mentor to offer advice about the game of GemStone3. To offer advice on anything else, see 1).
3) To disallow your forming of a hunting party seems far-fetched. I would wonder if there is not more to this, since the rest of what the GMs asked seems reasonable to me.

Originally posted by Lisu
The other are the constant in-game physical attacks on me. I don't mean snide comments or flame, I mean people fogging to me, stunning me for five minutes, and poping out about every half hour. I got killed so many times while hunting by people who would fog/familiar gate to me, kill me, laugh and run away. I report it to the GMs, and they say 'oh we'll take care of it' and they don't do anything, because the same individuals do it a second, third, and fourth time AFTER the incident report to a GH.

This brings us back to comments made regarding your roleplaying of this concept in the first place. Prostitutes were not treated with dignity and respect in medieval times, Lisu. They were slain without remorse. They were heckled, badgered and run out of town. Courtesans were tolerated, but courtesans did not advertise, nor did they take on all interested individuals, nor did they accept simple coin in payment. Courtesans were kept in high style. That is how they were paid.

Originally posted by Lisu
That's why I'm quitting folks, the GMs apparently feel that they only need to enforce policy against those they don't like, and I got on that list.

It is very sad, Lisu, that you continue to fail at seeing your own culpability in what has happened here. I hope you can, someday, grow into your opinion of yourself.

HarmNone

[imported_Kranar]

<< I would wonder if there is not more to this >>

I know when I was hunting, she would come to me and my friends and try to seduce us by asking us if we wanted to go hunting with her... alone.

I don't think ANY GM told her she can't hunt with friends, and I think she's skewing what the GM actually stated, perhaps something to the effect of "Don't use hunting parties as a medium for getting customers."

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Lisu
When I asked about what would be done regarding the people who were actively hunting me down repeatedly and killing me, they said that I had 'brought it on myself' (apparently killing prostitutes ISN"T a crime to them) and they wouldn't do anything. I objected, saying they were not enforcing policy fairly which is a violation of their own terms of service agreement, and they gave me a warn and locked me from the game.

Lisu, the GMs gave you a chance, and you blew it. Again, you failed to take any personal responsibility for harm you might have done. Again, you refused to take personal responsibiity for your actions. Again, you pointed the finger of blame at others without acknowledging your own culpability. By doing so, you convinced them that you, in all probability, had no care for anyone other than yourself, and would, in all probability, continue with what you had been doing with minor changes regarding methods of attracting "clients".

That was not satisfactory to them. It is Simutronics' game, not Lisu's game. They had the right to make the decision they made for what they felt to be the good of their customers as a whole.

Find an adult-oriented game, Lisu. This was not the right game for you. Surely, you see that.

HarmNone

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Kranar
I know when I was hunting, she would come to me and my friends and try to seduce us by asking us if we wanted to go hunting with her... alone.

I don't think ANY GM told her she can't hunt with friends, and I think she's skewing what the GM actually stated, perhaps something to the effect of "Don't use hunting parties as a medium for getting customers."

That is my suspicion, as well, Kranar. She states that she spoke with Senior GMs. There is no doubt that Simutronics' position on this issue has been discussed among those holding that position. Knowing what I know of them, I am sure she was not simply told that she could, effectively, not hunt with groups or ask others to hunt with her. She was told she could not solicit "clients" while hunting.

HarmNone

[StrayRogue]

I suggest you do find a game that isn't populated by an average age group of 13 Lisu. Tits and Gore are too much for these people I am afraid.

[Drew2]

Someone should mail a Lisu log to Bobmuhthol's mommy. Maybe she'll cancel his account.

[Bobmuhthol]

I would like you to please die you fuck.

[StrayRogue]

Tayre, Bob's mommy died in Vietnam. Apparently.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Bobby
Just thought this would pretty much sum up my opinion of this long topic.

Just do not read the thread. It is not required reading.

HarmNone

[Drew2]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Tayre, Bob's mommy died in Vietnam. Apparently. \

I doubt that. Intensely.

[StrayRogue]

No five dolla?

[Drew2]

No. It was 12.95 dolla. How do you think Bobmuhthol pays for it?

[StrayRogue]

lol, my mistake.

[SpunGirl]

You know, it's all well and good that Lisu whined about the big, bad GMs, but we only know her side of it. And unless Simu decides to crack open their files and publicize a log of EVERY time a player gets in trouble, we'll never know their side of it.

It's like Parkbandit said about the nickels.

-K

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by StrayRogue
All I can say is, you bastards lost me 500k in a sale.

Let's all have a brief moment of silence in remembrance of Stray's dead sale.

:(
.
.
.
.
.
.

Nope, I still don't care. :rolleyes:

You shall pay for your indignance.

[StrayRogue]

I, for one, agree with you Lisu. The GM's are big nasty bastards with a big policy up their ass.

[SpunGirl]

Don't you mean impudence?

::snickers::

-K

[StrayRogue]

That is a given, my dear.

[SpunGirl]

Actually, I don't think it is. You were trying to be a smartass and used the wrong word. If you give me your address, I'll buy you a nice pocket-sized dictionary and thesarus for Christmas.

-K

[Terrorize]

Originally posted by Lisu
Oh and for reference, I haven't 'advertised' my services in weeks. That's right, I stopped advertising back when I was level 13, and i'm 18 now. My clientele came exclusively from people seeking ME out, I didn't go looking for them. Unfortunately, when I spoke to two senior GMs (at MY request to speak to them) to clarify the issue, they said I was not allowed to advertise anything that someone could interpret as dirty. So I couldn't offer 'skinning' services. I couldn't form a hunting party (Well someone could think it was 'humping' party), and I was basically restricted from ever expressing in public anything related to my roleplay. I agreed to their terms. I agreed that I would not advertise, that I would not talk in public about my 'profession', and all their other conditions. When I asked about what would be done regarding the people who were actively hunting me down repeatedly and killing me, they said that I had 'brought it on myself' (apparently killing prostitutes ISN"T a crime to them) and they wouldn't do anything. I objected, saying they were not enforcing policy fairly which is a violation of their own terms of service agreement, and they gave me a warn and locked me from the game. That's really bad. This game REALLY needs a 'higher authority' to keep the GMs in check. Would you really do your job if you didn't have to tell ANYONE the results of your work?

You have no one to blame but yourself. So cry me a F*cking river. You deserve every bit of it. And yes, you have been advertising. Sorry but you are a bad liar.

[Lisu]

Okay here's a question. When did I ever say I DIDN'T care about if my services reached minors? I accepted a grand total of FIVE clients for the 'high end' services, and rejected thirty. Why did I reject those thirty? It wasn't that they couldn't afford me, it was that they lacked the maturity I felt was necessary for proper RP. Many were asked some simple questions about sex and they had no clue, so were rejected. There's no way to verifty that someone is 'of the legal age of consent' over the internet. However, I did my damnedest to make sure they were at least 18+ in terms of maturity, and that's what's important to me. I don't regret my other clients, as they actually provided feedback during the 'session' and used terms that only someone experienced would know how to use properly. I have not offered sex to minors. Many minors have sought me out and been turned away.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Lisu
Okay here's a question. When did I ever say I DIDN'T care about if my services reached minors?

Actually you skirted answering questions with any directness. Here is your only reply on the issue I can come up with.


Third. This 'age of consent' argument. It says quite clearly in the policy user must be 18 or over. So you're telling me that if a father buys a beer, and then gives it to his underage son at home, then you can accuse the store of giving alcohol to minors. Doesn't work that way. And face it folks, you have to pay for gemstone by credit card 95% of the time. that means it shows up on the credit card bill, which mommy and daddy pay, which means if they actually CARED then they would investigate it. Your argument is that I should restrict my actions because OTHER people are violating policy. Well golly that makes a whole lot of sense.

I dunno ... says to me "Daddy pays for the service, it's not my fault if I give Jr. a hummer". There isn't a prostitute stateside that would escape a molestation charge if the lawyer tried that technicality.


I accepted a grand total of FIVE clients for the 'high end' services, and rejected thirty. Why did I reject those thirty? It wasn't that they couldn't afford me, it was that they lacked the maturity I felt was necessary for proper RP. Many were asked some simple questions about sex and they had no clue, so were rejected. There's no way to verifty that someone is 'of the legal age of consent' over the internet. However, I did my damnedest to make sure they were at least 18+ in terms of maturity, and that's what's important to me. I don't regret my other clients, as they actually provided feedback during the 'session' and used terms that only someone experienced would know how to use properly. I have not offered sex to minors. Many minors have sought me out and been turned away.

You are totally correct, there is no way to verify age over the internet, this is where discretion comes in. You lacked discretion
in your choice to perform these acts in an "E" rated game.

You never attempted to answer these questions until now (after being locked out) and that just begs the question of "why?"

I don't care if people prostitute themselves. I don't care if someone wants to sell a little grass. When they do it near schools and playground, that's when I care, and that's what you did.

Trying to show concern now is like trying to pay the rent after eviction has already occurred. It's a nice gesture, but it won't get you back into the house.

[CrystalTears]

Gee, why didn't you mention any of that when this question first came up pages ago? Coming in here originally and saying, "I shouldn't have to, it's assumed that they are" and then coming back saying, "But I did!" makes people doubt your credibility that you stand firm with your decisions. You're stance dancing.

[HarmNone]

I must agree, Lisu. Never, during the course of this debate, have you spoken to the matter of minors engaging your services, except to point the finger of blame at the parents. Never did you mention having questioned anyone about anything...until now.

I would think that if you actually had made an effort to ensure some level of maturity in a potential "client", you would have said so earlier, when the matter arose.

Also, as Tsa`ah points out, your choice of games in which to ply your trade was seriously lacking. With all the adult games available out there, tell me, why GemStone3?

HarmNone

[Bobmuhthol]

You offered to give me sex for two million. I am thirteen years old. You should burn in hell you skanky bitch.

[imported_Kranar]

Heh, that's pretty funny.

She gets banned and now she cries about how caring she is and how she never offered her services to minors.

Just a week ago she was shoving it in our faces about how everyone in Gemstone has to be 18+ or else their breaking policy so it's not her problem.

That, her bogus statement on why she left the game, and the public posting of a log to get attention, leave her credibility in the toilet.

[GS4Gurl]

See what Lisu's problem is she doesn't know how to go about being a call girl. The way she should have done it is with more class and discretion. You find a lone gentleman and whisper sweetly your services in his ear. Not don a amulet and start blaring out a menu like a damn moron. No wonder you got so much heat. I know of several "escorts" in the game who made heaps of money going about it...quietly. And back then, the time frame GemStone aspires to that is exactly how the women did it anyway. No we didnt have magical items like amulets back then and you certainly didnt see a woman stand in the middle of town square yelling, "Cmon step right up a fuck for a buck! Whoohooo!" :lol: No no no like I said the woman used soft, quiet, seductive discretion. Simple as that.

[GS4Gurl]

I dare say more than 50% of the GSIII population are of minors. Especially during the summer. If you used logic and perhaps waited till school was back in session and perhaps offered to clients during that time then your chances would be greater the client would be an adult. Another way is to observe the client for awhile before approaching him. Watch mannerisims and etc and sometimes you might be able to determine whether they are an adult. Before propositioning them casually ASK their age. Most times people will be honest. Then a while later then offer your services. I dont know just a few suggestions. I think if you thought about it a minute you could've gone about this sooo much better.

[Artha]

"Cmon step right up a fuck for a buck! Whoohooo!"

A quote for the ages...

[StrayRogue]

Yeah, its a shame this game is designed for kids. It was kinda like going to see Terminator 3, with little children; you just knew it was going to suck.

[Lisu]

Okay here we go again.


1. Bobmuhthol is a liar. "You offered to give me sex for two million. I am thirteen years old. You should burn in hell you skanky bitch. " Considering my services are 1, 3, or 5 million silver, you're clearly just trying to flame me with lies. Out of curriosity, how many email addresses do you have? You certaintly seem like the kind to send in false emails to get someone kicked out.

2. Why didn't I mentioned my screening earlier? Because I was standing up for my character and the policy. I care, but I'm not going to be forced to reveal everything about my character because of a few immature flamers making accusations. Bobmuhthol is a classic example. Simply put, I feel that many of you who are so eager to call me names over the internet have issues with women that you wouldn't dare say to someone's face, but gladly say from behind the protection of your computer screen in a dark room with your pants around your knees and your hand pumping on what you think makes you superior.

[Artha]

with your pants around your knees and your hand pumping on what you think makes you superior.

Atleast they don't charge for it.

[Tendarian]

Originally posted by Lisu
Simply put, I feel that many of you who are so eager to call me names over the internet have issues with women that you wouldn't dare say to someone's face, but gladly say from behind the protection of your computer screen in a dark room with your pants around your knees and your hand pumping on what you think makes you superior.
What about all the women who think you are wrong too?

[Warriorbird]

She wanted the controversy, I'd bet. Just like a lot of folks that chase attention. As I said before, probably a big fan of Jacqueline Carey novels.

[CrystalTears]

Hey Lisu, if you would have taken the time to read other threads on these boards other than the one about yourself, you would have come to find out that Bob is a posting lunatic and is usually joking or being sarcastic or sometimes even flat out lying in his posts just to increase their numbers. He was obviously making fun of probably real minors that you solicited. Just because you had your own screening methods doesn't mean that you still didn't try to engage in activities with minors. You will never know.

As a matter of fact, most boards host posts made by a very very small percentage of the gaming population. To actually believe that the only ones who had something against you came from here is a false accusation and assumption.

And again, you seem to still think that the issues regarding the kind of "profession" you were playing were the reasons people gave you a hard time. People were against your methods of attaining your clients, not what you did with them.

And make up your mind. You said they would call you a whore on the net. First you said that you didn't like it. Then you said you didn't mind. Now you don't like it again. Meanwhile you really can't get insulted with that since that's what you were playing anyway. You know you really need to make up your mind with your decisions on what you stand for.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
She wanted the controversy, I'd bet. Just like a lot of folks that chase attention. As I said before, probably a big fan of Jacqueline Carey novels.

Or the Dark Alliance...

[Bobmuhthol]

No, no. You offered me sex for 2,000,000 silver and called it 'as good as it gets'. You're a fucking moron.

Edit: Pun intended.

[Edited on 8-29-2003 by Bobmuhthol]

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Bobmuhthol is a classic example. Simply put, I feel that many of you who are so eager to call me names over the internet have issues with women that you wouldn't dare say to someone's face, but gladly say from behind the protection of your computer screen in a dark room with your pants around your knees and your hand pumping on what you think makes you superior.>>

Negative. Negative. All the time. Respectively.

[StrayRogue]

lol. I do feel GS is populated by what could and are called geeks/nerds etc. It is not the whole player base, I wouldn't even say the majority either. But Lisu has a point.

What kind of impression do you recieve when some people start throwing their weight around?

The other day Stay was hiding in front of the bank, waiting for a customer to come along (customer as in someone I was selling something to). Jagyr arrives, searches then drags me out of hiding. He then stuns me, telling me to not hide there. Now this pisses me off. I did nothing. The idiot had the gall to say I had thieved from him. As did his little whore he had with him. So I hid again and waited. This resulted in a 100 per disease. I undiseased myself, and reported. The GMs told me to contact a GH (Bullshit btw).

Now the impression I got from the above situation is that Jagyr is a 18 year old skinny geek who got bullied in school and has no social function what-so-ever. He feels the need to show off his Imaginary muscles to get girls and assert a power he can never have in reality. This is the impression I recieve from a whole host of people, young and old.

[Terrorize]

Originally posted by Lisu
Okay here we go again.


1. Bobmuhthol is a liar. "You offered to give me sex for two million. I am thirteen years old. You should burn in hell you skanky bitch. " Considering my services are 1, 3, or 5 million silver, you're clearly just trying to flame me with lies. Out of curriosity, how many email addresses do you have? You certaintly seem like the kind to send in false emails to get someone kicked out.

2. Why didn't I mentioned my screening earlier? Because I was standing up for my character and the policy. I care, but I'm not going to be forced to reveal everything about my character because of a few immature flamers making accusations. Bobmuhthol is a classic example. Simply put, I feel that many of you who are so eager to call me names over the internet have issues with women that you wouldn't dare say to someone's face, but gladly say from behind the protection of your computer screen in a dark room with your pants around your knees and your hand pumping on what you think makes you superior.

Hehe if your screening process was so good, why Huka? Hehe. Oh and no I have no problem with women I am usually a nice guy, it kinda does anger me when a character named Lisu comes up soliciting sex to me and friends for 10k for the first pop. Sorry, but you are a dumbass snert now blaming others for your actions. You sound like Klaive to the letter, no wait, Klaive takes responsibility for his actions. Scary how I have more respect for him then I do someone else. <Shudders>

[StrayRogue]

Obviously someone has never been approached by a prostitute...

[Terrorize]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Obviously someone has never been approached by a prostitute...

Are you really that horrifying?

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Obviously someone has never been approached by a prostitute...

Right, and when it's not wanted, they tell the authorities and the prostitute is arrested. What's your point?

[Adhara]

Originally posted by Lisu
Because I was standing up for my character and the policy. I care, but I'm not going to be forced to reveal everything about my character because of a few immature flamers making accusations.

If you were indeed standing up for your character, you would have immediately reassured us. You were not standing up for the policy, you were hiding behind it.


Simply put, I feel that many of you who are so eager to call me names over the internet have issues with women that you wouldn't dare say to someone's face[...]

My poor Lisu now you are getting irrational. This sounds like a last-line-of defence-I'm-backed-up-in-a-corner to me.


[...] your hand pumping on what you think makes you superior.

Now now. What is this contempt I hear? You wouldn't be a misandrist now would you? Seriously though, this proves once more that you are totally missing the point. Very few who have posted in this thread have issues with prostitutes. We have issues with child molestors. The difference was made plain but if you didn't get it then, you probably won't now that you're all emotional.

Oh and I would like to second what someone said about Huka. If you say his maturity was tested before he received the service... yikes! Hello screening. I suppose one evaluates based on the only reference they have, themselves.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

What the heck is a misandrist?

[Bobmuhthol]

Man-hater.

[Stinkypants]

Originally posted by Lisu
Simply put, I feel that many of you who are so eager to call me names over the internet have issues with women that you wouldn't dare say to someone's face,

[Stinkypants]

That might be a valid point if Lisu's player were actually a woman. :bouncy:

[StrayRogue]

I for one have never ever told the Police I have been approached by a Pro. Being a woman, I doubt you'd understand CT. The idea of all Prostitutes only doing it for drug money is simply a product of indoctrination. How about the women whose waitress job isn't enough to support her three children? Or any other examples. I hate it how people simply look down on them because of their "occupation". Sex for money has been happening ever since money was "founded". And it will continue to happen, as it evidently does even now, while its illegal.

While Lisu could have gone about it with more tact etc, I still feel she chose a RP niche that is untouched in GS. I am sure others could pull it off. Perhaps if prudish folk weren't ready to chastize her instantly.

[Artha]

I still feel she chose a RP niche that is untouched in GS.

There's a reason it's 'untouched in GS'.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I for one have never ever told the Police I have been approached by a Pro. Being a woman, I doubt you'd understand CT. The idea of all Prostitutes only doing it for drug money is simply a product of indoctrination. How about the women whose waitress job isn't enough to support her three children? Or any other examples. I hate it how people simply look down on them because of their "occupation". Sex for money has been happening ever since money was "founded". And it will continue to happen, as it evidently does even now, while its illegal.

Fine you wouldn't say anything if she approached you, but many others would. And yeah I've never been approached. :lol: Whatever since you don't know me or anything about me. Prostitution in any color you paint it in is still illegal. Saying someone's doing it for good reasons doesn't make it anymore acceptable.


While Lisu could have gone about it with more tact etc, I still feel she chose a RP niche that is untouched in GS. I am sure others could pull it off. Perhaps if prudish folk weren't ready to chastize her instantly.

She didn't do anything "untouched". She did something that was being disruptive to the game. There's been prostitutes in the game for years and never have had the problems Lisu did because she didn't have the guts to deal with a controversial character and accepting the responsibilities of her actions.

I'm starting to think you ARE Lisu since you're backing her up with her same excuses that we're the reasons she was banned, since most of the argument has NOT been about her roleplaying but about her methods of obtaining clients. Why is that hard for you two to understand.

Prude my hiney. :rolleyes: You REALLY don't know me.

[Terrorize]

I think prostitution should be legalized. What a woman does to her body is her business. However when it involves those who are minors, or when it involves areas where children play, well, That is a different story. I would say sorry, but I am not. There is a difference in hating women (which I don't) And hating COLD B*TCHES which like to find loop holes to get their way. Their are differences between many women and you Lisu, Alot of other women, possibly most, deserve respect, And B*tches like you demand it, and in return you will not earn it. So go rot. People like you are why Society is held back from advancing.

[Bobmuhthol]

I hate women.

[Terrorize]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
I hate women.

I don't. I love women. Hate B*tches.

[CrystalTears]

Even though I'm inclined to agree with you that perhaps prostitution should be legalized, I wouldn't fully support it because it's not just their bodies that they are endangering.

[Terrorize]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Even though I'm inclined to agree with you that perhaps prostitution should be legalized, I wouldn't fully support it because it's not just their bodies that they are endangering.

True. Oh I had an idea, lets hook Klaive and Lisu up together. It would be perfect, since Lisu likes kids, and Klaive is practically one, atleast this way she won't violate any laws(unless he really is a kid).

[Kurili]

I remember Lisu was indicating her belief that the Player's Corner people were responsible for her departure.

I have told about five people that I knew were upset with her that she was gone. None of them knew that, all were happy, and four of the five had written feedback. AND...not one of the five had ever heard of Player's Corner. Amazing, isnt it?

All five know about Player's Corner now though. heh

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
While Lisu could have gone about it with more tact etc, I still feel she chose a RP niche that is untouched in GS. I am sure others could pull it off. Perhaps if prudish folk weren't ready to chastize her instantly.

Hardly, StrayRogue. Others have "pulled it off" quite well. Do you know who they are? No? Seems they managed it with a bit of finesse, does it not?

HarmNone

[StrayRogue]

Heh, I tend to back the losing side CT. Plus, I am pissed off you ran her out of the game days before she was about to buy an item of mine for a good price (I lost 500k). Bastards. Either way, I feel its a difference of opinion. Please be aware that my own interactions with her, were positive. This, like all your negative experiences, has coloured my view on this issue.

[CrystalTears]

Dude! I didn't have ANY experiences with her in the game! Hell I don't even know anyone who did!

I NEVER had a problem with her playing a prostitute. The ONLY thing I EVER had a problem with was her posting that damned log in the first place, and then agreed about her not screening her clients more. I then disagreed with her methods when things weren't going her way strictly from the information given to me here. I was stating my opinions just as others have. No one here drove her out. She did that all by herself. You can't honestly believe that the 400 measly members of this boards are the sole reason she lost her ability to sell herself, since I think about 1/5 of them don't even play anymore or even as much to spot the woman.

I'm glad you had good experiences with her. It doesn't mean that her general behavior was good either.

[StrayRogue]

Oh I agree you are permitted to have your own opinion CT. Its not like this thing effects me in such a HUGE way. Its her choice to go/get kicked out. It won't reduce my AS or anything...

[Gokkem]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
lol. I do feel GS is populated by what could and are called geeks/nerds etc. It is not the whole player base, I wouldn't even say the majority either. But Lisu has a point.

What kind of impression do you recieve when some people start throwing their weight around?

The other day Stay was hiding in front of the bank, waiting for a customer to come along (customer as in someone I was selling something to). Jagyr arrives, searches then drags me out of hiding. He then stuns me, telling me to not hide there. Now this pisses me off. I did nothing. The idiot had the gall to say I had thieved from him. As did his little whore he had with him. So I hid again and waited. This resulted in a 100 per disease. I undiseased myself, and reported. The GMs told me to contact a GH (Bullshit btw).

Now the impression I got from the above situation is that Jagyr is a 18 year old skinny geek who got bullied in school and has no social function what-so-ever. He feels the need to show off his Imaginary muscles to get girls and assert a power he can never have in reality. This is the impression I recieve from a whole host of people, young and old.

For the record, Jagyr was ebayed a year or 2 ago. I know because I sold him for my friend. The guy who made Jagyr and played him for 8 years is a very nice guy who got sick of GS.

[StrayRogue]

Well you could know me over with a feather...

[Drew2]

I dont' know why Jagyr's name was brought up (Mostly because I refuse to read 75% of this thread because it should have died a week ago) but Jagyr is a cool guy now, as far as I know. He gave me help and stuff and I didn't even know him. Mostly because I went up there to PInefar to help him when he was dead and stuff... but he seems OK to me.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Gokkem
For the record, Jagyr was ebayed a year or 2 ago. I know because I sold him for my friend. The guy who made Jagyr and played him for 8 years is a very nice guy who got sick of GS.

Whew. Glad you pointed that out, Gokkem. That did not sound like the old Jagyr at all.

HarmNone

[StrayRogue]

Thats it Daina, follow the crowd. Do as your told. Be the sheep.

[StrayRogue]

*Hands Daina a 9-5 job, two kids, and a house in suburbia. Oh and some Gap clothing* As for Me Daina, you don't know me, beyond the Msg boards. Of course, being the RP legend you are, I am sure you'll take it in game.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Thats it Daina, follow the crowd. Do as your told. Be the sheep.

Because one might agree with the majority about a given issue, it may not be assumed that said person is generally a follower. Of those that posted against Lisu's in-game behavior, I would venture to say that few...very few...are, in fact, followers.

HarmNone

[Nichan]

Funny thing is.. if Daina does as strayrogue says... she will be another sheep following him.. so I suppose she should just say screw it and express her opinions.. even if they 'follow the crowd'

Cant win either way... always gonna be a strayrogue to your daina.

[StrayRogue]

I hope you are not implying we must copulate or something.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Nichan
Funny thing is.. if Daina does as strayrogue says... she will be another sheep following him.. so I suppose she should just say screw it and express her opinions.. even if they 'follow the crowd'

Cant win either way... always gonna be a strayrogue to your daina.

Well said, Nichan. Very well said.

HarmNone

[Caramia]

Here's some handy words:

Misandrist - a person who hates men.
Misogynist - a person who hates women.

A misandrist would not engage men in sexual activity, just as true misogynists go out of their way to ignore and avoid dealing with women. I'd classify it as a borderline phobia.

There's a big difference in behavior between a misandrist and a person who misplaces or misdirects their anger towards their father or other men that have been in their lives, by engaging in sexual activity with men.

I don't think folks took issue with Lisu whoring herself out for the money, I think they took issue with the fact that (s)he denied that's what (s)he was offering at first, only to prove in a self-published log that is exactly what (s)he was doing. Once you get caught denying something like that, then get revealed, you're kind of screwed. (S)he couldn't deal with the resulting reputation.

If you can't stand the heat, then you should get out of the kitchen, Lisu, instead of blaming others for what happened to you. Take some responsibility.

[Weedmage Princess]

I have a question.

Is this the longest thread in the history of Player's Corner? Can someone check?

[StrayRogue]

The one where we discussed Atheana was pretty long.

[StrayRogue]

Oh, if you check Stats (at the top) you will discover that this...is the most viewed thread EVER!

[Scott]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Oh, if you check Stats (at the top) you will discover that this...is the most viewed thread EVER!

It's the most replied to topic, not the most viewed.

[Edited on 8-29-2003 by Gemstone101]

[StrayRogue]

Well it IS the longest. I mis-typed.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Gemstone101

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Oh, if you check Stats (at the top) you will discover that this...is the most viewed thread EVER!

It's the most replied to topic, not the most viewed.

[Edited on 8-29-2003 by Gemstone101]

::HarmNone gives Gemstone101 a big, congratulatory smooch::

You da man!

HarmNone is harmless

[Bestatte]

Originally posted by Lisul
<<blahblahblah..Simply put, I feel that many of you who are so eager to call me names over the internet have issues with women that you wouldn't dare say to someone's face, but gladly say from behind the protection of your computer screen in a dark room with your pants around your knees and your hand pumping on what you think makes you superior.>>


Here's a name for ya Lisu: emotional leech. Forget about roleplaying, forget the log, forget your viewpoint on soliciting cybersex to people you can't confirm are minors or adults.

You are an emotional leech. You create drama for yourself, and when it backfires, you complain that the world is mean to you.

And for the record, I have no problem with women, as a whole. I happen to be one, as a matter of fact. I tend to think we're pretty damned swell. And if I had my pants down around my ankles, you can bet I'd be masturbating to someone with better cybersex skills than you.

Love and kisses,

Bestatte

[Weedmage Princess]

Whoa

[Warriorbird]

Alternately, "she" just wants some material to enjoy "herself" to. One could see the draw.

And, as regards the Dark Alliance, Stray? I never said seeking attention was a bad thing. Sometimes Gemstone is a fun place to seek it. Some characters of mine do. My current one doesn't, really. Lisu just seems to be purpousely oblique as to why she runs into trouble.

[HarmNone]

Heh. I get the feeling that Bestatte may have had more than enough of Ms Lisu and her protestations of innocence.

HarmNone

[StrayRogue]

No, what you did was upset a Friend. All I asked, I never slandered, was that you talk to her. It was you who took offense, and you who took the high and mighty road.

[Terrorize]

Originally posted by Lady Daina
All I can say about people who blindly support others without seeing all sides of it is: grow up. That, and the old cliche "Birds of a feather flock together"... maybe some people should take a good hard look at themselves if they find all the people they are blindly sticking up for are disliked by the vast majority of the general population. Usually when I find myself thinking "Has EVERYONE gone crazy?" I just look hard at myself and realize *I* am probably the one with the problem, cos no way is EVERYONE else wrong all the time. ::shrug:: Just a thought.

If some people never agreed, there would be no such thing as Society. Maybe you should read the thread more thoroughly before you jump into, and maybe read a book on Social Sciences.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Bestatte

Originally posted by Lisul
<<blahblahblah..Simply put, I feel that many of you who are so eager to call me names over the internet have issues with women that you wouldn't dare say to someone's face, but gladly say from behind the protection of your computer screen in a dark room with your pants around your knees and your hand pumping on what you think makes you superior.>>


Here's a name for ya Lisu: emotional leech. Forget about roleplaying, forget the log, forget your viewpoint on soliciting cybersex to people you can't confirm are minors or adults.

You are an emotional leech. You create drama for yourself, and when it backfires, you complain that the world is mean to you.

And for the record, I have no problem with women, as a whole. I happen to be one, as a matter of fact. I tend to think we're pretty damned swell. And if I had my pants down around my ankles, you can bet I'd be masturbating to someone with better cybersex skills than you.

Love and kisses,

Bestatte

Damn you Bestatte.. I think I felt movement there.

[StrayRogue]

You like chatting bullshit don't you?

Here is a portion of my U2U "I suggest you apologize to her" among other things.

And yes, I only have one perspective. But I would rather take the perspective of a friend who has helped me countless times, rather than someone whom I hear lots of bad shit about. So there, Daina, I don't always support the bad guy, as I am in now way supporting you.

[StrayRogue]

Spreading it? I have talked to NO one you freak. And one side of the story? Who the fuck says I have gotten only the one side? Who says other people haven't bitched about you?

[StrayRogue]

I recall sending you the U2U Daina, not chastizing you over the boards. I have heard and READ logs of the incident. I don't need to hear whatever bullshit justification for why you are a selfish bitch; I can figure it out on my own.

[Scott]

After 676 replies and 9889, the most replied to topic has come to an end. I would have liked to keep it open but it's somehow reached the point where I don't even know what the original topic was. Everything has been discussed from Lisu, to underage sex, to cybering.... the list goes on. Other people have suggested I close it down, but now I think it's time. Since this seemed to have become a discussed topic and we need a replacement for it, I will come to icemule and start trouble just so people have something to complain about in this threads place!