Romney Chooses Ryan

[ClydeR]

Romney just announced that Paul Ryan is his VP choice.

I'm surprised. There was never any doubt that Romney, as a Mormon, would pick a white man. But I thought it would be a boring white man. Not so with Ryan.

The Romney campaign says Ryan will be -- and I quote -- a "game changer."


One Romney adviser was bullish as he described Ryan's potential impact on the race to BuzzFeed.

"I do think this is a game-changer," the adviser said. "Given his Irish Catholic background, he's a guy that can campaign in blue collar neighborhoods. I think that puts Pennsylvania in play, I think it's going to bolster us in Ohio, I think it puts Michigan in play. I think there's going to be a whole swath of the Midwest that look at this bright, young, very energetic guy, and is won over."

The adviser added that the surprise pick has likely sent shockwaves through Obama campaign headquarters in Chicago.

More... (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/paul-ryan-will-be-romneys-veep-romney-advisor-sa)

[ClydeR]

Ryan will win the debate (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?73874) with Biden. Ryan is just a better debater.

[ClydeR]

You know what's really funny? The only reason Ryan is a fairly well know national figure is because the Obama White House set out to make him famous, something Obama may now regret.


By early 2009, when I first met Ryan in his office, he was caught between the demands of the Republican leaders, who wanted nothing to do with his Roadmap, and his own belief that the Party had to offer a sweeping alternative vision to Obama’s. Ryan soon had an unlikely ally, in Obama himself. Throughout that year, the Administration struggled to defend its ambitious agenda, in part because there was no Republican alternative for the President to attack. Ryan, deferring to the Party leadership, didn’t aggressively push his plan again. But in late January of 2010, a week after the victory of the Republican Scott Brown in the contest for Ted Kennedy’s Senate seat in Massachusetts—the first election fuelled by the new Tea Party movement—Ryan offered the Roadmap as an alternative to Obama’s budget.

He presented it not as a dry policy plan, with just numbers and actuarial tables, but as a manifesto that drew on the canon of Western political philosophy as interpreted by conservative intellectuals. The document’s introduction referred to the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, Hayek, Friedman, Adam Smith, Max Weber, Émile Durkheim, John Locke, Alexis de Tocqueville, Georges-Eugène Sorel, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Charles Murray, and Niall Ferguson. Ryan himself seemed intent on entering the canon. “Only by taking responsibility for oneself, to the greatest extent possible, can one ever be free,” he wrote, “and only a free person can make responsible choices—between right and wrong, saving and spending, giving or taking.”

Obama saw an opening. Invited to speak before the House Republicans at their retreat in Baltimore, on January 29th, he seemed to extend an olive branch to Ryan. “I think Paul, for example, the head of the Budget Committee, has looked at the budget and has made a serious proposal,” Obama said. “I’ve read it. I can tell you what’s in it. And there’s some ideas in there that I would agree with, but there’s some ideas that we should have a healthy debate about, because I don’t agree with them.” Afterward, Obama made a point of shaking Ryan’s hand and signing an autograph for his seven-year-old daughter, Liza. There was talk in Washington that the two young, wonky Midwesterners might be able to build a working relationship.

More... (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/08/06/120806fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=all)

It looks like Obama is going to get the debate he wanted.

This VP selection carries great risk for both parties. Medicare, Medicare, Medicare. We're going to hear a lot about Medicare. Get ready for the phrase "as we know it (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/mar/29/want-invoke-our-lie-year-get-it-right/)." Speaking from their perch on the head of a needle, fact checkers say it's not okay to say that Ryan would end Medicare -- that would be the "lie of the year" -- but it is okay to say that he would end Medicare "as we know it." As long as you put "as we know it" at the end, then it's hunky-dory. Ryan would do away with the current Medicare program and replace it with an entirely different program with the same name, and since a program named Medicare will still exist, it would be a lie to say that Ryan would end Medicare.

[ClydeR]

Considering how Romney was for, then against, then for, then against abortion, I think it's going to help him a lot with conservatives that Ryan co-sponsored the Right to Life Act, which at the federal level is equivalent to the personhood amendments that have been showing up at the state level.


SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.
This Act may be cited as the `Right to Life Act'.

SEC. 2. RIGHT TO LIFE.
To implement equal protection for the right to life of each born and preborn human person, and pursuant to the duty and authority of the Congress, including Congress' power under article I, section 8, to make necessary and proper laws, and Congress' power under section 5 of the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the Congress hereby declares that the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution is vested in each human being.

SEC. 3. DEFINITIONS.
For purposes of this Act:

(1) HUMAN PERSON; HUMAN BEING- The terms `human person' and `human being' include each and every member of the species homo sapiens at all stages of life, including, but not limited to, the moment of fertilization, cloning, or other moment at which an individual member of the human species comes into being.

(2) STATE- The term `State' used in the 14th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States and other applicable provisions of the Constitution includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and each other territory or possession of the United States.

More... (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr618/text)


And Ryan has consistently been in favor of amending the Constitution (http://paulryan.house.gov/news/documentprint.aspx?DocumentID=288260) to outlaw homosexual "marriage" in those states that currently allow it. He opposes (http://www.wisconsingazette.com/national-gaze/roll-call-the-repeal-votes.html) homosexuals in the military.

[ClydeR]

Ryan is a proponent of Social Security privatization. Not the weak privatization that President Bush wanted, but real honest-to-goodness privatization.


In 2001, Ryan led a coterie of conservatives who complained that George W. Bush¡¦s $1.2 trillion tax cut was too small, and too focused on the middle class. In 2003, he lobbied Republicans to pass Bush¡¦s deficit-ÈÎfinanced prescription-drug benefit, which bestowed huge profits on the pharmaceutical and insurance industries. In 2005, when Bush campaigned to introduce private accounts into Social Security, Ryan fervently crusaded for the concept. He was the sponsor in the House of a bill to create new private accounts funded entirely by borrowing, with no benefit cuts. Ryan¡¦s plan was so staggeringly profligate, entailing more than $2 trillion in new debt over the first decade alone, that even the Bush administration opposed it as ¡§irresponsible.¡¨

When Democrats took control of Congress in the 2006 elections, they reimposed a budget rule requiring that any new spending or tax cuts be offset by new revenue or spending cuts. Ryan opposed it, preferring to let new spending or tax cuts go on the national credit card. Instead, he continued to endorse Bush¡¦s line that tax cuts were leading us to a glorious new era of prosperity and budget balance. ¡§Higher revenues flowing into the Treasury, as a result of economic and job growth, have given us a real chance to balance the budget,¡¨ Ryan announced in 2007. ¡§The president¡¦s budget achieves the important goal of balancing the budget in the near term¡Xwithout raising taxes,¡¨ he wrote in August 2008.

More... (http://nymag.com/news/features/paul-ryan-2012-5/index3.html)

Here's a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ_zr2pld6A) of Ryain in 1995 saying that Medicare would be broke by 2001.

[ClydeR]

The selection of Ryan will hurt Romney with Latinos. If anything, the choice of Ryan will cement the partisan divide in that group for the foreseeable future. But Romney wasn't doing very well with them anyway, since he wants them to self deport.

http://www.newstaco.com/2011/04/27/paul-ryan-compares-latinos-to-animals/

[ClydeR]

Ryan leads a P90X class for legislators.

http://www.politico.com/click/stories/1003/ryan_leads_p90x_class_for_pols.html

That's a kind of exercise that involves jumping and lunging. Fortunately, the legislators in his class have a health plan that pays for new knees.

[ClydeR]

A Democrat Super PAC released a 290 page oppo report (http://meetpaulryan.com/) on Ryan.

[ClydeR]

That's it. Everything you will ever need to know about Ryan. Except, of course, for the issue of his vacant House seat. And how he will affect the fairly close presidential poll numbers in his home state of Wisconsin. And a few other minor issues that I will highlight in the coming days.

Oh, and you also need to know that Obama appears to like Ryan personally, as opposed to how Obama feels (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?74146) about Romney. It would be an interesting dynamic if Obama and Ryan were both running for President.

[Gelston]

Has he released his tax returns?

[Warriorbird]

Has he released his tax returns?

He doesn't want to so he's dropping out in favor of Paul Ryan.

[Lulfas]

It was fun hearing the booing when Paul Ryan complained that Obama is going to cut Medicare. It is like the Republicans in the audience had no clue who Ryan is or what he stands for.

[Parkbandit]

It was fun hearing the booing when Paul Ryan complained that Obama is going to cut Medicare. It is like the Republicans in the audience had no clue who Ryan is or what he stands for.

Enlighten us?

[Warriorbird]

A Democrat Super PAC released a 290 page oppo report (http://meetpaulryan.com/) on Ryan.

Some entertaining reading.

[crb]

I'm happy. Paul Ryan has been my favorite congressman for the better part of a decade, long before he became nationally known. I'd see him doing interviews and whatnot early mornings on CNBC, with vast economic knowledge and a no BS attitude. I think Rubio would have been a better political choice, but Ryan is one of the few good people in Washington, and as much as the left will try to demonize him, he had Wyden sign onto his plan, and his plan does not differ that far from Obama's own deficit commission, and in Wisconsin he wins in a district that voted for Obama, so... ya... good luck. He is going to destroy Biden in the debates, he'd destroy Obama too if they allowed VP/P debates.

[crb]

It was fun hearing the booing when Paul Ryan complained that Obama is going to cut Medicare. It is like the Republicans in the audience had no clue who Ryan is or what he stands for.

Lulfas thinks Ryan wants to do away with Medicare. He doesn't, he wants to save it and make it like Social Security, doing nothing is what will kill it since it is on an unsustainable trajectory.

Imagine if social security was this system where the government didn't just give you a check, they set a rental rate and then paid your land lord, they set food prices then paid your grocer, they set clothing prices and then paid your clothing store. Then it'd like Medicare. Ryan/Wyden (the dem senator from Oregon) want to change Medicare to be like Social Security where the government gives you a check, then you go out and buy coverage from insurers competing in a marketplace... and they will leave traditional medicare in place as a choice if you want it.

[Warriorbird]

It's like somebody never read the entire Ryan plan. Not surprising.

[BriarFox]

CRB liked Paul Ryan before he was popular. He'll have to find a new band---ah, political icon now.

[4a6c1]

Poor Romney. At this point I almost feel sorry for him.

[Tgo01]

It's like somebody never read the entire Ryan plan. Not surprising.

I haven't read Ryan's plan at all. Can you tell me what is so bad about it?

[Liagala]

CRB liked Paul Ryan before he was popular. He'll have to find a new band---ah, political icon now.
/thread

[ClydeR]

Has he released his tax returns?

Since Ryan has never held a job in the private sector, except when he was a kid, then it doesn't matter too much about his tax returns.

[Latrinsorm]

Romney, as a MormonSource???

[Gelston]

Since Ryan has never held a job in the private sector, except when he was a kid, then it doesn't matter too much about his tax returns.

I've never held a job in the private sector, except when I was a kid. I still had tax returns.

[Tgo01]

Poor Romney. At this point I almost feel sorry for him.

I wouldn't feel too bad for Romney. According to Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/home.aspx) Obama currently has a 43% approval rating and they have Romney and Obama tied at 46%.

[Warriorbird]

I wouldn't feel too bad for Romney. According to Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/home.aspx) Obama currently has a 43% approval rating and they have Romney and Obama tied at 46%.

As a narrative, that isn't much. The poll that matters.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

[Tgo01]

As a narrative, that isn't much. The poll that matters.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

Pppphhhhbbbtttt.

I only go by Gallup.

[Tenlaar]

What have I gotten out of this thread?

The video in ClydeR's sig is shockingly fantastic.

[Jarvan]

As a narrative, that isn't much. The poll that matters.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

I am still trying to figure out how asking 1500 people who they will vote for is an example of 150 million people.

I know I know.. it's standard practice and historically is very reliable. I just think it's like trying to calculate how many people in the entire country like vanilla ice cream by asking the people in your neighborhood.

On a side note, I like when they call me, I always say neither, they are both assholes and hang up.

[4a6c1]

As a narrative, that isn't much. The poll that matters.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

It's in my toolbar. No joke.

:heart:

[4a6c1]

I wouldn't feel too bad for Romney. According to Gallup (http://www.gallup.com/home.aspx) Obama currently has a 43% approval rating and they have Romney and Obama tied at 46%.

He alienates people and gives mixed messages. He should have picked someone that appeals to more voters. Ryan will take his message further to the right and will only help to alienate more people.

[TheEschaton]

CRB liking the candidate the best is like the PC equivalent of being on board with Ann Coulter and Michelle "crazy eyes" Malkin.

(inb4 crb asking what's wrong with Coulter and Malkin, and suggesting they're legitimate authors.)

[Showal]

Why did anyone respond to this? I was curious to see how many posts ClydeR would make in a row.


I am still trying to figure out how asking 1500 people who they will vote for is an example of 150 million people.

I know I know.. it's standard practice and historically is very reliable. I just think it's like trying to calculate how many people in the entire country like vanilla ice cream by asking the people in your neighborhood.

On a side note, I like when they call me, I always say neither, they are both assholes and hang up.

Jarvan, I believe your life can be summed up by this picture. 3862

STATISTICS?! HOW DO THEY WORK?!??

[4a6c1]

I was curious to see how many posts ClydeR would make in a row.


I'm curious to know why you're curious.

:clown2:

[Androidpk]

Do you hear that? That's the sound of the final nail being driven in Romney's campaign coffin.

[Back]

Do you hear that? That's the sound of the final nail being driven in Romney's campaign coffin.

You are actually hearing the echo from earlier this year.

[msconstrew]

Do you hear that? That's the sound of the final nail being driven in Romney's campaign coffin.

No kidding.

[Tgo01]

Hmm, freudian slip? Or was Romney basically calling it quits on his campaign? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEJAjqNCGSc)

Romney while introducing Paul Ryan: Join me in welcoming the next president of the United States, Paul Ryan.

Romney corrected himself a few minutes later but it's funnier if we pretend he didn't.

[Androidpk]

Wouldn't surprise me if Romney declines the nomination in Tampa.

[Tgo01]

Seriously what the fuck? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-personhood_n_1767760.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing10|dl1|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D191261)


Despite Mitt Romney's efforts to court women voters ahead of November, he chose a running mate who is far outside the mainstream on women's health issues. Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) cosponsored a bill that would give fetuses full personhood rights from the moment of fertilization, which was even rejected by voters in the socially conservative state of Mississippi. He voted to defund federal family planning programs, authored a budget that dismantles Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare, all of which disproportionately aid and employ women, and voted multiple times to prevent women in the military from using their own money to pay for abortions at military hospitals.

Ryan also supported a highly controversial bill that Democrats nicknamed the "Let Women Die Act," which would have allowed hospitals to refuse to provide a woman emergency abortion care, even if her life is on the line.

I'm not understanding this VP choice at all. He didn't go with a minority to help bring in the minority votes, he didn't pick a woman to bring in the women votes. He went with a middle aged white man who is apparently as far right as you can get? For what reason? To bring in the middle aged white male Republican vote that the Republican party so desperately needs?

[Back]

I'm not understanding this VP choice at all. He didn't go with a minority to help bring in the minority votes, he didn't pick a woman to bring in the women votes. He went with a middle aged white man who is apparently as far right as you can get? For what reason? To bring in the middle aged white male Republican vote that the Republican party so desperately needs?

Usually I can't stand your nonsense but this was the most intelligent thing you have ever said in your entire life.

[4a6c1]

I'm not understanding this VP choice at all. He didn't go with a minority to help bring in the minority votes, he didn't pick a woman to bring in the women votes. He went with a middle aged white man who is apparently as far right as you can get? For what reason? To bring in the middle aged white male Republican vote that the Republican party so desperately needs?

From a horses mouth.

[Parkbandit]

Usually I can't stand your nonsense but this was the most intelligent thing you have ever said in your entire life.

Because you agree with it?

You're funny.

[Wrathbringer]

I'm not understanding this VP choice at all. He didn't go with a minority to help bring in the minority votes, he didn't pick a woman to bring in the women votes. He went with a middle aged white man who is apparently as far right as you can get? For what reason? To bring in the middle aged white male Republican vote that the Republican party so desperately needs?

He apparently thought there should be at least one real republican on the ballot.

[4a6c1]

He apparently thought there should be at least one real republican on the ballot.

A real republican to you represents what actual values? I'm curious what Wrathbringer thinks.

[Wrathbringer]

A real republican to you represents what actual values? I'm curious what Wrathbringer thinks.

I don't know why. I'm a common fool. Best to just ignore me more often than not.

Edit: Awesome avatar, btw.

[ClydeR]

I'm not understanding this VP choice at all. He didn't go with a minority to help bring in the minority votes, he didn't pick a woman to bring in the women votes. He went with a middle aged white man who is apparently as far right as you can get?

This smart commentary says Paul Ryan's Congressional voting record is approximately as conservative as Michelle Bachmann. A chart at the link shows that Ryan's voting record is more conservative than Cheney's was.


Various statistical measures of Mr. Ryan peg him as being quite conservative. Based on his Congressional voting record, for instance, the statistical system DW-Nominate evaluates him as being roughly as conservative (http://voteview.org/HOUSE_SORT112.HTM) as Representative Michele Bachmann, the controversial congresswoman of Minnesota.

By this measure, in fact, which rates members of the House and Senate throughout different time periods on a common ideology scale, Mr. Ryan is the most conservative Republican member of Congress to be picked for the vice-presidential slot since at least 1900. He is also more conservative than any Democratic nominee was liberal, meaning that he is the furthest from the center. (The statistic does not provide scores for governors and other vice-presidential nominees who never served in Congress.)

More... (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/11/a-risky-rationale-behind-romneys-choice-of-ryan/)

[ClydeR]

The Ayn Rand thing will be fun for whoever discovers it first.

[4a6c1]

I don't know why. I'm a common fool. Best to just ignore me more often than not.

Edit: Awesome avatar, btw.

:-X

[Latrinsorm]

Seriously what the fuck? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-personhood_n_1767760.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing10|dl1|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D191261)



I'm not understanding this VP choice at all. He didn't go with a minority to help bring in the minority votes, he didn't pick a woman to bring in the women votes. He went with a middle aged white man who is apparently as far right as you can get? For what reason? To bring in the middle aged white male Republican vote that the Republican party so desperately needs?They're throwing the election, helloooooo.

[Androidpk]

On a small and unrelated note I've been to that museum in Norfolk before. It was for a DoD conference on the weaponization of space by the USAF and was being chaired by the vice commander of Norad. He admitted they had the capabilities to put weapons in space but had not yet decided to do so. I wonder if they've changed their minds in the last 7 years.

TANGENT

[Androidpk]

They're throwing the election, helloooooo.

http://i49.tinypic.com/24o0soy.jpg

[Atlanteax]

Seriously what the fuck? (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-personhood_n_1767760.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing10|dl1|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D191261)

I'm not understanding this VP choice at all. He didn't go with a minority to help bring in the minority votes, he didn't pick a woman to bring in the women votes. He went with a middle aged white man who is apparently as far right as you can get? For what reason? To bring in the middle aged white male Republican vote that the Republican party so desperately needs?

We're seeing the sequel of the 'Sarah Palin Mistake'.

[Atlanteax]

For that matter... it may had been a boring pick, but the smartest pick would had been Rob Portman.

I do not know why they even bother calling it 'vetting' nowadays.

[Drisco]

What would happen if Romney just threw in the towel now and called it quits. It'd be more exciting than watching this burning ship finally go down.

[Androidpk]

He'd hand the nomination over to Paul Ryan. Or try to anyways.

[Drisco]

I'm officially over the campaign trail now.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3dj5j7Oou1qiutll.gif

[Androidpk]

It could also explain why the GOP is so keen on taking away as many Ron Paul delegates as possible.

[Parkbandit]

It could also explain why the GOP is so keen on taking away as many Ron Paul delegates as possible.

Lulz.

Just send me the $20.12 already.. that fantasy ship set sail back in 2011.

On topic: I like the pick of Paul Ryan. It should help focus the debate squarely on the economy, which is a good thing.

[Androidpk]

Just send me the $20.12 already.. that fantasy ship set sail back in 2011.

Dude, what don't you understand about me not sending you a dime?

[Parkbandit]

Dude, what don't you understand about me not sending you a dime?

Oh I knew it when you made the terms and accepted the bet. I knew you had no intention or capability of living up to the obligation. It's about character.. something you wouldn't know anything about.

Keep being that dumb Ron Paul fanboi that we've come to accept and laugh at.

[crb]

Attacks on Paul Ryan's budget are hilarious. Democrats paint it like the end of the world, and he is as far right as you can be. Meanwhile, way on Paul Ryan's far right, libertarians and Ron Paul supporters rip him a new one for not actually cutting anything. Which is the truth.

Every time someone say Paul Ryan's budget cuts too much, take your dick out of your pants and slap them on the head with it. It doesn't actually cut anything. Under Paul Ryan's budget federal spending increases every year, including the first year. All it cuts is the rate of future spending growth. In contrast Ron Paul would cut 1 trillion in actual cuts in year 1.

I like both Pauls of course. The one with the first name and the one with the last name. But Paul Ryan's budget needs to be put in perspective. If Democrats really think cutting nothing actually, but only reducing the rate of future spending growth, is the end of the world. How can anyone take the left seriously?

[Wrathbringer]

What a let down. Neither of the two mainstream candidates is serious about deficit reduction. They both talk the talk about "crushing national debt" like it's an impending storm (and I believe it is), but their plans for addressing this storm wouldn't be suitable preparation for a passing spring shower. The paranoid conspiracy theorists holding the view that we're deliberately devaluing the dollar in order to pay back debt with a worthless currency are gaining credibility. A vote for either of these two candidates, Obama or Obamalite, is a vote for more of the same in expectation of different results in my view.

[Warriorbird]

Attacks on Paul Ryan's budget are hilarious. Democrats paint it like the end of the world, and he is as far right as you can be. Meanwhile, way on Paul Ryan's far right, libertarians and Ron Paul supporters rip him a new one for not actually cutting anything. Which is the truth.

Every time someone say Paul Ryan's budget cuts too much, take your dick out of your pants and slap them on the head with it. It doesn't actually cut anything. Under Paul Ryan's budget federal spending increases every year, including the first year. All it cuts is the rate of future spending growth. In contrast Ron Paul would cut 1 trillion in actual cuts in year 1.

I like both Pauls of course. The one with the first name and the one with the last name. But Paul Ryan's budget needs to be put in perspective. If Democrats really think cutting nothing actually, but only reducing the rate of future spending growth, is the end of the world. How can anyone take the left seriously?

You still clearly haven't read his actual budget.

[Tgo01]

You still clearly haven't read his actual budget.

Can you explain the budget to me? I admit I haven't read it.

[Wrathbringer]

Any plan that takes 28 years to balance the budget is no plan at all.

[Parkbandit]

A massive giveaway to insurance and investment banking. High level tax cuts paid for by low level tax increases that, much like the Romney/Obama healthcare plan, aren't called taxes. A lot more on top of that.

Could you be more specific about what the high level tax cuts are that are being paid by "low level tax increases"?

[Androidpk]

Oh I knew it when you made the terms and accepted the bet. I knew you had no intention or capability of living up to the obligation. It's about character.. something you wouldn't know anything about.

Keep being that dumb Ron Paul fanboi that we've come to accept and laugh at.

Please dude, you can go fuck yourself. We never finalized the deal. You never came up with sources that we could agree upon and that was your idea. You think I'm the slightest bit concerned that you and a couple others disagree with my political convictions?? Thanks for the laugh!

[Parkbandit]

Please dude, you can go fuck yourself. We never finalized the deal. You never came up with sources that we could agree upon and that was your idea. You think I'm the slightest bit concerned that you and a couple others disagree with my political convictions?? Thanks for the laugh!

We didn't? Give me ANY site other than www.iwanttofuckronpaulintheassbecauseimabigtimefan boi.com that will show Ron Paul has the most delegates and thus is the Republican nominee.

It was a pretty clear bet.. that you believe Ron Paul would get the most delegates and become the Republican nominee. I disagreed. You came up with the $20.12 bet amount to which I agreed.

Like I said.. I never expected you to actually live up to your obligation... you don't seem to be the type.

[Androidpk]

The bet was if Romney would have the minimum number of delegates needed to secure his nomination before August. And yes the total number of delegates distributed is certainly in question, especially with the GOP actively trying to strip legal Ron Paul delegates from multiple states, so get over it already.

[4a6c1]

Attacks on Paul Ryan's budget are hilarious. Democrats paint it like the end of the world, and he is as far right as you can be. Meanwhile, way on Paul Ryan's far right, libertarians and Ron Paul supporters rip him a new one for not actually cutting anything. Which is the truth.

Every time someone say Paul Ryan's budget cuts too much, take your dick out of your pants and slap them on the head with it. It doesn't actually cut anything. Under Paul Ryan's budget federal spending increases every year, including the first year. All it cuts is the rate of future spending growth. In contrast Ron Paul would cut 1 trillion in actual cuts in year 1.

I like both Pauls of course. The one with the first name and the one with the last name. But Paul Ryan's budget needs to be put in perspective. If Democrats really think cutting nothing actually, but only reducing the rate of future spending growth, is the end of the world. How can anyone take the left seriously?

Paul Ryan wants to privatize social security and turn medicare into a voucher system. He has also made a statement on JAILING WOMEN WHO PRACTICE ABORTION. Paul Ryan: "If it's illegal, it's illegal."

Uhhh....you can't go any further to the right without Godwining this thread. I knew his name from Southern Poverty Law Center watch list and was immediately horrifed by Romney's choice. He's a known advocate against reproductive righs. If you are a typical American woman who feels like she deserves autonomy he might as well be a terrorist. Here's a random ass link full of easy to find facts.

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Paul_Ryan.htm/Paul_Ryan_Abortion.htm

Voted YES on banning federal health coverage that includes abortion. (May 2011)
Voted NO on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)
Voted NO on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)
Voted YES on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions. (Apr 2005)
Voted YES on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime. (Feb 2004)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research. (Feb 2003)
Voted YES on funding for health providers who don't provide abortion info. (Sep 2002)
Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)
Voted YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion. (Jun 1999)
Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
Rated 100% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-life stance. (Dec 2006)
Prohibit transporting minors across state lines for abortion. (Jan 2008)
Bar funding for abortion under federal Obamacare plans. (Jul 2010)
Prohibit federal funding for abortion. (May 2011)
Congress shall protect life beginning with fertilization. (Jan 2011)
Prohibit federal funding to groups like Planned Parenthood. (Jan 2011)
Grant the pre-born equal protection under 14th Amendment. (Jan 2007)

[Androidpk]

Vulture/Voucher

How many years worth of tax returns did Ryan show? I know sources are saying it was definitely more than 2.

[Halfling Guts]

Veep Pick Paul Ryan Is No Conservative

http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/12432-veep-pick-paul-ryan-is-no-conservative

[Parkbandit]

The bet was if Romney would have the minimum number of delegates needed to secure his nomination before August. And yes the total number of delegates distributed is certainly in question, especially with the GOP actively trying to strip legal Ron Paul delegates from multiple states, so get over it already.

Uh huh.

Whatever gives you an excuse to not live up to your obligations. Like I said, I knew you were the type of man that wouldn't pay up, so it's not like I was expecting you to do the right thing.

[Androidpk]

Do the right thing and honor a bet that we never finalized? Cry me a fucking river. Maybe that will do you some good and clean all the sand out of that dried up vagina of yours.

[Wrathbringer]

Veep Pick Paul Ryan Is No Conservative

http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/12432-veep-pick-paul-ryan-is-no-conservative

QFT

[TheEschaton]

That article claims he's not a fiscal conservative. Evidence of that: he supported the war and the Patriot Act. The title of the thread is a misnomer at best, because those are definitely conservative issues, if not libertarian issues. I think what the problem here is that libertarians ipso facto think they are conservative, where if they're actually true libertarian, they have a mix of progressive/conservative ideals around non-intervention, whether it be in bank bailouts or foreign countries. Medicare Part D was touted as a reform and restructuring of Medicare to bring it "under control" (lol), and No Child Left Behind is kind of a political anomaly in the past decade of political spending, a largely bipartisan bill (which Democrats now feel betrayed by) for education personally touted by the Republican President at the time. Voting for DHS, TSA, Patriot Act, and TARP were all touted as "conservative" things.


But on the other side of the ledger, Ryan's voting record shows a robust support of big-spending programs to enlarge the role of the federal government, especially when they are promoted by a Republican in the White House. Ryan voted for all of the big-ticket, budget-busting items of the administration of President George W. Bush, including the No Child Left Behind Act and the prescription drug benefit known as Medicare Part D, often described as the largest expansion of the welfare state since Lyndon Johnson's Great Society. Ryan voted to create the new Department of Homeland Security, including the Transportation Security Administration that has harassed air travelers, while making aircraft safe from shoes, belt buckles and grandma's knitting needles. He voted for the PATRIOT Act, giving government enhanced powers for warrantless snooping into the lives of American citizens as well as foreign nationals. Ryan voted for the Troubled Assets Relief Program that bailed out the "too big to fail" financial institutions and inspired the Tea Party rebellion against big government and "crony capitalism." He backed the auto bailout that turned GM into "Government Motors."

And while conservatives generally like to leave wars and military spending off the list of costly "big government" programs, Ryan's record on that front is also troubling. Like Romney, Ryan has no foreign policy credentials and no record of military service to point to in the election campaign. And like Romney, Ryan swallowed whole the Bush-Cheney line on Iraq and supported the decision to invade and occupy that country in a needless war that cost more than 4,000 American and hundreds of thousands Iraqi lives and has added roughly a trillion dollars to our soaring national debt. Ryan's budget calls for no reduction in military spending, despite the continued presence of U.S. troops in some 130 countries around the world, most of which have no bearing on our own national security.

Even more troubling is Ryan's vote last December in favor of the National Defense Authorization Act. The legislation included a provision authorizing the President to use the military to arrest suspected terrorists, including American citizens apprehended in the United States, and hold them indefinitely, without charges and without trial, in clear violation of due process rights guaranteed by the Constitution. This year Ryan voted against an amendment to remove that provision from the law.

[Parkbandit]

Do the right thing and honor a bet that we never finalized? Cry me a fucking river. Maybe that will do you some good and clean all the sand out of that dried up vagina of yours.

I said I agreed to the terms. Sounds pretty final to me. Give me a non-fanboi site that shows Romney doesn't have enough delegates to secure the nomination in Tampa. Let's look at it.

It has nothing to do with me crying.. it's only $20 bucks. It has everything to do with you having the questionable character I already knew you had.

[Wrathbringer]

That article claims he's not a fiscal conservative. Evidence of that: he supported the war and the Patriot Act. The title of the thread is a misnomer at best, because those are definitely conservative issues, if not libertarian issues. I think what the problem here is that libertarians ipso facto think they are conservative, where if they're actually true libertarian, they have a mix of progressive/conservative ideals around non-intervention, whether it be in bank bailouts or foreign countries. Medicare Part D was touted as a reform and restructuring of Medicare to bring it "under control" (lol), and No Child Left Behind is kind of a political anomaly in the past decade of political spending, a largely bipartisan bill (which Democrats now feel betrayed by) for education personally touted by the Republican President at the time. Voting for DHS, TSA, Patriot Act, and TARP were all touted as "conservative" things.

If you're making the case that he's as conservative as G-Dub, I agree with you.

[ClydeR]

On the issue of abortion, Ryan
co-sponsored a bill to mandate ultrasound before an abortion,
supports outlawing abortion in all cases, including rape and incest, and
wants to outlaw certain forms of birth control.


‘SEC. 3402. REQUIREMENT OF INFORMED CONSENT.

‘(a) Requirement of Compliance by Providers- Any abortion provider in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, who knowingly performs any abortion, shall comply with the requirements of this title.

‘(b) Performance and Review of Ultrasound- Prior to a woman giving informed consent to having any part of an abortion performed, the abortion provider who is to perform the abortion, or an agent under the supervision of the provider, shall--


‘(1) perform an obstetric ultrasound on the pregnant woman;

‘(2) provide a simultaneous explanation of what the ultrasound is depicting;

‘(3) display the ultrasound images so that the pregnant woman may view them; and

‘(4) provide a complete medical description of the ultrasound images, which shall include all of the following: the dimensions of the embryo or fetus, cardiac activity if present and visible, and the presence of external members and internal organs if present and viewable.

‘(c) Ability To Turn Eyes Away- Nothing in this section shall be construed to prevent a pregnant woman from turning her eyes away from the ultrasound images required to be displayed and described to her. Neither the abortion provider nor the pregnant woman shall be subject to any penalty under this title if the pregnant woman declines to look at the displayed ultrasound images.

More... (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr3805)




Any Republican vice-presidential candidate is going to be broadly anti-abortion, but Ryan goes much further. He believes ending a pregnancy should be illegal even when it results from rape or incest, or endangers a woman’s health. He was a cosponsor of the Sanctity of Human Life Act, a federal bill defining fertilized eggs as human beings, which, if passed, would criminalize some forms of birth control and in vitro fertilization.

More... (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-s-extreme-abortion-views.html)

[ClydeR]

We're seeing the sequel of the 'Sarah Palin Mistake'.

It will be a very close election. If you think otherwise, then you have failed to take into account the economy and campaign finance.

[Warriorbird]

Could you be more specific about what the high level tax cuts are that are being paid by "low level tax increases"?

A large number of folks on fixed incomes will suddenly be spending a lot more money for healthcare in order to provide folks like Romney the ability to pay a .82% tax rate. That's skin in the game, all right, and another case of "tax."

[Kuyuk]

I didnt actually think there was any other VP option other than Ryan..

[Parkbandit]

A large number of folks on fixed incomes will suddenly be spending a lot more money for healthcare in order to provide folks like Romney the ability to pay a .82% tax rate. That's skin in the game, all right, and another case of "tax."

So, you are saying that Paul Ryan wants to give rich people like Romney a .82% income tax rate?

Which page is this in the Paul Ryan budget?

[Warriorbird]

So, you are saying that Paul Ryan wants to give rich people like Romney a .82% income tax rate?

Which page is this in the Paul Ryan budget?




Full Repeal of the AMT. The alternative minimum tax originally was intended to apply to a small fraction of wealthy taxpayers. But because it was never indexed for inflation, it has in recent years threatened to ensnare millions of middle-income filers. To date, Congress has only extended protection from this AMT expansion on a year-by-year basis. This proposal eliminates the AMT entirely and permanently.

Elimination of Double Taxation of Savings. The current system essentially taxes savings twice: individuals pay tax on their earnings and, if they choose to invest those after-tax funds, they pay another tax on the return from their savings (i.e. interest, capital gains, or dividends). This proposal eliminates the second layer of taxation. Not only is this fair to individual taxpayers, it also is good for the economy. Greater savings leads to more investment and higher rates of productivity. Higher productivity ultimately drives increased living standards. The plan also eliminates the estate tax, another form of double taxation that is particularly harmful to small businesses.

All Romney's income is from investments. No AMT. No capital gains at all any more. .82% calculated total based off his only published return.

[4a6c1]

Soo.................in case anyone missed it, Paul Ryan has taken steps to reverse the reproductive freedoms of American women. He would like to outlaw abortion and restrict reproductive freedoms. He is part of the War on Women that we have all "just been imagining" for the last year or so. Voting for this guy is voting ourselves BACKWARDS.

Are some of us really okay with this?

[Tgo01]

Soo.................in case anyone missed it, Paul Ryan has taken steps to reverse the reproductive freedoms of American women. He would like to outlaw abortion and restrict reproductive freedoms. He is part of the War on Women that we have all "just been imagining" for the last year or so. Voting for this guy is voting ourselves BACKWARDS.

Are some of us really okay with this?

Hey just be grateful we allow you women to vote.

[Halfling Guts]

So, you are saying that Paul Ryan wants to give rich people like Romney a .82% income tax rate?

Which page is this in the Paul Ryan budget?


We know that Ryan's "balanced budget" is not really "balanced". We should have tried to cut 1 trillion dollars the very first year.

[TheEschaton]

Yes, and topple the country.

[Androidpk]

Yes, and topple the country.

Fear mongering is so 2001.

[~Rocktar~]

Soo.................in case anyone missed it, Paul Ryan has taken steps to reverse the reproductive freedoms of American women. He would like to outlaw abortion and restrict reproductive freedoms. He is part of the War on Women that we have all "just been imagining" for the last year or so. Voting for this guy is voting ourselves BACKWARDS.

Are some of us really okay with this?


Actually no, but then again as VP he will have a lot less power than he has now. And you know that Romney won't get assassinated. I also doubt that he would ever get the big chair. Of course that is all despite the inability of a Democrat Pres with House and Senate to pass a full on Socialist mandate they wanted along with the long laundry list of things they have worked on along the years. Social issues really are of little consequence in Presidential politics and less so in this election, if they really mattered then loads of our recent presidents would never have been elected or even nominated.

[Showal]

Actually no, but then again as VP he will have a lot less power than he has now. And you know that Romney won't get assassinated. I also doubt that he would ever get the big chair. Of course that is all despite the inability of a Democrat Pres with House and Senate to pass a full on Socialist mandate they wanted along with the long laundry list of things they have worked on along the years. Social issues really are of little consequence in Presidential politics and less so in this election, if they really mattered then loads of our recent presidents would never have been elected or even nominated.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m68zw4aap21qb5gkjo1_500.gif

[Parkbandit]

We know that Ryan's "balanced budget" is not really "balanced". We should have tried to cut 1 trillion dollars the very first year.

How do you propose we cut 1 trillion dollars from the budget in 1 year.. while creating a pro-growth environment for businesses?

[Parkbandit]

Soo.................in case anyone missed it, Paul Ryan has taken steps to reverse the reproductive freedoms of American women. He would like to outlaw abortion and restrict reproductive freedoms. He is part of the War on Women that we have all "just been imagining" for the last year or so. Voting for this guy is voting ourselves BACKWARDS.

Are some of us really okay with this?

lulz.

All we need now to make this complete is Ashliana telling us it's not government's place to tell him what to do with his uterus.

Fantastic as usual Rojo...

[ClydeR]

This is worth keeping an eye on. It's from a deletion on Ryan's Wikipedia article.


"On September 18, 2008 ... "

"On September 18, 2008, Ryan attended a closed meeting with congressional leaders, then-Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on the ongoing banking crisis. That same day Ryan sold shares in various troubled banks and invested in Goldman Sachs."[4]

1. ^
2. ^ Byers, Dylan (11 August 2012). "The Paul Ryan Wikipedia edits begin". Politico. Retrieved 11 August 2012.
3. ^ "Paul Ryan's Future Uncertain". Huffington Post. June 16, 2012.
4. ^ "Paul Ryan 2008 Financial Disclosure Statement" (PDF). Open Secrets. Retrieved August 11, 2012.

This was removed - I believe properly - because it is WP:OR, the ref being a primary document, Ryan's financial disclosure for 2008. On the other hand, it certainly seems to show what was stated (I have some concern over the abbreviation RHIP however). If this did happen as stated I'm sure there must have been some smart reporter who picked this up - are there any news sources on it? Smallbones (talk) 19:47, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

I could find no reliable news sources for this information only conspiratorial blogs which cannot be cited on Wikipedia. --JournalScholar (talk) 08:33, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

More... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Paul_Ryan#.22On_September_18.2C_2008_..._.22)


Ryan says he will release two years of tax returns, which would not cover 2008.


During an interview with Romney on CBS's "60 Minutes" on Sunday, Ryan said he would follow Romney's lead and release two years of his tax returns.

More... (http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/08/13/13257189-paul-ryan-gave-romney-camp-several-years-of-tax-returns?lite)

[4a6c1]

lulz.

All we need now to make this complete is Ashliana telling us it's not government's place to tell him what to do with his uterus.

Fantastic as usual Rojo...

So you're okay with abortion being outlawed if it means getting Obama out of office? Interesting trade off there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWyk-Mr6cfc

Paul Ryan wants a top down economy. Basically the corrupt systems that were happening at the turn of the previous century. He has plans to attack college students, disabled and shutin programs, medicaid and medicare recipients, workers unions, womens reproductive rights, the middle class with tax hikes not to mention federal funding for WIC, Foodstamps and Headstart.

I'm not understanding his base right now. He's a retard. How many YOUNG, rich, white males who will never reproduce does he think there are in this country?

[Parkbandit]

So you're okay with abortion being outlawed if it means getting Obama out of office? Interesting trade off there.

No, and that won't happen anyway. ZOMG WAR ON WOMAN!!!!!11111



Paul Ryan wants a top down economy. Basically the corrupt systems that were happening at the turn of the previous century.

Lulz, wut?

As much as you crazy lobs might not want to believe, trickle down economics is a far better economic plan than trickle up.



He has plans to attack college students, disabled and shutin programs, medicaid and medicare recipients, workers unions, womens reproductive rights, the middle class with tax hikes not to mention federal funding for WIC, Foodstamps and Headstart.

You have a bunch of "wars" going on with that. You should stick with just one imaginary war at a time.

[/quote]
I'm not understanding his base right now. He's a retard. How many YOUNG, rich, white males who will never reproduce does he think there are in this country?[/QUOTE]

He's the retard? Re-read your post.

You sound exactly like Backlash at this point...

[ClydeR]

A new poll finds that most people believe Romney made a better choice with Ryan than George H.W. Bush made with Dan Quayle. Bush/Quayle won.


USA TODAY/Gallup polls of registered voters after the announcements of running mates since Dick Cheney in 2000 all showed more positive reactions. Only Dan Quayle in a 1988 Harris Poll of likely voters was viewed less positively than Ryan, with 52% rating Quayle as a "fair" or "poor" vice presidential choice. The Ryan poll includes all adults, not just registered voters.

More... (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2012/08/paul-ryan-poll-vice-president-mitt-romney-/1)

[ClydeR]

What have I gotten out of this thread?

The video in ClydeR's sig is shockingly fantastic.

All of my links are fantastic!

Since I have to change signatures every week, I'll put the link here for posterity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZkp7q19f0

It's a music video by South Korean pop artist "PSY."

P.S. I had an inappropriate joke to make about it, but I just can't do it.

[Keller]

I said I agreed to the terms. Sounds pretty final to me. Give me a non-fanboi site that shows Romney doesn't have enough delegates to secure the nomination in Tampa. Let's look at it.

It has nothing to do with me crying.. it's only $20 bucks. It has everything to do with you having the questionable character I already knew you had.

I will send you both $20 if you shut the fuck up.

[Parkbandit]

I will send you both $20 if you shut the fuck up.

Deal.

PM me for my PayPal.

[Keller]

I don't use paypal.

PM me your address and I'll send you a bill.

[Parkbandit]

I don't use paypal.

PM me your address and I'll send you a bill.

Have you paid your fee to Paul yet for the football? Maybe add it to that and Paul can just paypal it over.

[Tgo01]

I will send you both $20 if you shut the fuck up.

Can I have 20 dollars as well if I promise I never bring up the bet?

[Keller]

Have you paid your fee to Paul yet for the football? Maybe add it to that and Paul can just paypal it over.

I would, but then the video of me wiping my ass with the $20 bill, putting it into an envelope, and sealing it would be useless.

[Parkbandit]

I would, but then the video of me wiping my ass with the $20 bill, putting it into an envelope, and sealing it would be useless.

Wow. That's going to really bother me. Really.

And yes to your creepy PM.

[Latrinsorm]

I have two thoughts:
-Who was Bob Dole's running mate in 1996? (It turns out it was some guy named Jack Kemp.)
-While I disagree with Congressman Ryan's stance on a number of issues, I appreciate the polite Wisconsonian way he goes about articulating them, as opposed to, for instance, the squinty blowhard way Rush Limbaugh does.

[crb]

Everyone seen this? Clinton's former chief of staff, and Obama's hand picked Democrat head for his deficit commission (that he then ignored) Erskine Bowles showering praise on Ryan.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/in-2011-clip-former-clinton-white-house-chief-of-staff-erskine-bowles-praises-paul-ryan-budget-criticized-president-obama/

Ryan's budget isn't that far removed, in fact, from the Simpson-Bowles commission budget. He is sensible and reasonable, which is also why he got Democratic Senator Wyden to sign on to it. He only looks extreme compared to Obama who is so far left he makes reasonable people in the middle seem extreme. As much as Obama would like to play the centrist, and he tries so hard in his speeches, it is all empty posturing. He has a record now, unlike 08, and can't just pretend to be what he isn't.

But good video of Bowles at that link.

[Keller]

Lots of desperation from the Ryan supporters.

Embrace Ryan's conservatism. Don't pretend he is a moderate or centrist. For the first time in a while the GOP has a fiscal conservative on the ticket. Please stop apologizing for him, crb.

[ClydeR]

I have two thoughts:
-Who was Bob Dole's running mate in 1996? (It turns out it was some guy named Jack Kemp.)

I'm not sure that qualifies as a full thought.

[crb]

You're reasonable from time to time, but it's statements like this--100% baseless, 100% partisan--that really make you stand out. In what sense is Obama "far left"? Obama has either continued or intensified most of Bush's foreign policy--from the two wars, to the drone strikes, to refusing to close Guantanamo, and his one significant domestic accomplishment--healthcare reform--has a Heritage Foundation linchpin modeled after none other than the GOP nominee's healthcare program.

Taxes are at historic lows, especially for the super-rich. Essentially zero consequences for the financial and housing companies that tanked the economy. Where exactly is the "far-left" in anything the administration has done over the past four years? The GOP has shifted further to the right than it ever has in any of our lifetimes. Even (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/us/politics/jeb-bush-takes-aim-at-fellow-republicans.html) conservatives lament it.

I'll give you foreign policy.

But the tax burden is actually at historic highs for the top quintile. All the bureaucratic crap and executive orders Obama has done through agencies, bypassing congress?

The individual mandate may have been a heritage thing in the 90s, and might be a constitutional fail, but the rest of Obamacare is an economic fail, which is the real problem with the law. Also see stimulus, see epa, see dodd frank, see lack of any movement on fannie mac, etc.

[crb]

Lots of desperation from the Ryan supporters.

Embrace Ryan's conservatism. Don't pretend he is a moderate or centrist. For the first time in a while the GOP has a fiscal conservative on the ticket. Please stop apologizing for him, crb.

I'm not apologizing for him, calling a reasonable person reasonable isn't apologizing for him. I happen to think sound fiscal policy, balanced budgets, and entitlement reform are reasonable things. I think most Americans think they're reasonable things. Ryan is my idea of what normal should be, and I kind of think it is outside of LA and NYC and DC.

[Androidpk]

Of course the government isn't going to hold those banks responsible when those banks own so many politicians. The DOJ's inquiry into Goldman Sachs was a joke.

[Latrinsorm]

I'm not apologizing for him, calling a reasonable person reasonable isn't apologizing for him. I happen to think sound fiscal policy, balanced budgets, and entitlement reform are reasonable things. I think most Americans think they're reasonable things. Ryan is my idea of what normal should be, and I kind of think it is outside of LA and NYC and DC.A person can be reasonable without being centrist, the same way a person can be centrist and a loony tune. "Normal" is yet another kettle of fish, and if you're not going to finish what's on your plate you're not getting any more.

[Wrathbringer]

Where exactly is the "far-left" in anything the administration has done over the past four years? The GOP has shifted further to the right than it ever has in any of our lifetimes. Even (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/us/politics/jeb-bush-takes-aim-at-fellow-republicans.html) conservatives lament it.

You make his point rather than counter it. Obama has accomplished very little "far-left", but that's not because he isn't "far-left." It's because we've been fortunate enough to have a Congress willing to put the breaks on the Obama crazy train. Obama is so far left he hasn't the ability to cross the aisle on anything. That's why nothing of unquestionable constitutionality has gotten done. He hasn't even the good judgement to choose issues and propose ideas that even moderates could agree upon. If no one follows you, you're a bad leader plain and simple and Obama is a bad leader. Normal people can pass the buck and blame others, but when you're the President of the United States, the buck should stop there. If you can't get things done, it's your fault. "I tried to do things but Congress wouldn't let me! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!" Please.

[crb]

Yes Obama has totally been bipartisan, which is why he got all those bipartisan votes on all his big pieces of legislation, which is why he insisted his own deficit commission plan at least be put up for a vote. Which is why he keeps hammering Harry Reid to let bipartisan bills passed out of the house to at least come to a vote in the Senate.

[Latrinsorm]

You make his point rather than counter it. Obama has accomplished very little "far-left", but that's not because he isn't "far-left." It's because we've been fortunate enough to have a Congress willing to put the breaks on the Obama crazy train. Obama is so far left he hasn't the ability to cross the aisle on anything. That's why nothing of unquestionable constitutionality has gotten done. He hasn't even the good judgement to choose issues and propose ideas that even moderates could agree upon. If no one follows you, you're a bad leader plain and simple and Obama is a bad leader. Normal people can pass the buck and blame others, but when you're the President of the United States, the buck should stop there. If you can't get things done, it's your fault. "I tried to do things but Congress wouldn't let me! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!" Please.President Bush also displayed very little ability to cross the aisle, as you put it. Does that indicate that he was far-right, or that he was President during an era of astonishing partisanship, and more specifically partisanship defined along increasingly arbitrary party lines as opposed to ideological groupings? (Or both? Or neither? Or buttons?)

Do you believe the President can or should be able to dictate what Congress does?

.

I find it interesting that different people criticize the President for turning us into a socialist wasteland, for being unable to compromise with his nominal opponents and therefore being unable to enact anything socialist of substance, and for compromising so much and so readily that he slants towards the right.
I'm not sure that qualifies as a full thought.:(

[Keller]

I'm not apologizing for him, calling a reasonable person reasonable isn't apologizing for him. I happen to think sound fiscal policy, balanced budgets, and entitlement reform are reasonable things. I think most Americans think they're reasonable things. Ryan is my idea of what normal should be, and I kind of think it is outside of LA and NYC and DC.

I know lots of reasonable people that are not "in the middle." One of them is Paul Ryan.

Painting Paul Ryan as a moderate or a "reasonable person in the middle" as you stated is going to be a disaster. His record is clear that he's not "in the middle." You aren't going to win any elections arguing over whether he is or is not in the middle. You're going to win elections by arguing that his conservative economic approach is necessary.

[4a6c1]

ZOMG WAR ON WOMAN!!!!!11111

You sound exactly like Backlash at this point...

So we're just going to pretend as if Ryans record against women is imaginary and I'm making it up? He has a proven record against reproductive rights but OK, have fun sticking your head in that sand. His budget cuts nearly everything except defense. Everyone is picking it apart right now so I'm sure I wont be the last person to mention it.

And honestly Backlash and I dont chat much and I tend to ignore you when you're behaving badly, but I'll never see the point of trivializing someones opinion because you don't agree with them. My political opinions are founded upon solid and pretty consistent exposure to the same information you recieve in the media. We both think critically and reason well. But we interpret things much differently because we are such fundamentally different people. I can only assume you trivialize my opinion because you simply do not care about the same issues (human rights etc) which puzzles me a great deal but oh well...

[Halfling Guts]

Lew Rockwell states:

"Paul Ryan can sound like Ron Paul on spending and deficits, though as a neocon, he is an ardent champion of perpetual war and global domination by the US empire. That is, he is a phony. His famous plan barely touches the government, while actually increasing “defense,” though he talks a good game; that is, he is a lying politician dedicated to the expansion and glory of the State, just like Romney, while claiming to want to cut. But it’s interesting that Romney felt he could not pick a Portman nor a Pawlenty but rather had to choose an ersatz Ron. Oh, and note that Ron-hater Bill Kristol is the patron of Ryan."

http://www.infowars.com/the-paul-ryan-selection/

[Parkbandit]

And honestly Backlash and I dont chat much and I tend to ignore you when you're behaving badly, but I'll never see the point of trivializing someones opinion because you don't agree with them.


Seriously? Here you are describing Paul Ryan because you don't agree with him:


He's a retard.

By never, do you mean just today.. because you made that post yesterday. In this very thread.

If you want to play the role of victim.. it would be more effective if you didn't do the exact same thing in the same exact thread that you are crying foul over.



My political opinions are founded upon solid and pretty consistent exposure to the same information you recieve in the media. We both think critically and reason well. But we interpret things much differently because we are such fundamentally different people. I can only assume you trivialize my opinion because you simply do not care about the same issues (human rights etc) which puzzles me a great deal but oh well...

lulz x2

[4a6c1]

Seriously? Here you are describing Paul Ryan because you don't agree with him:



By never, do you mean just today.. because you made that post yesterday. In this very thread.

If you want to play the role of victim.. it would be more effective if you didn't do the exact same thing in the same exact thread that you are crying foul over.



lulz x2

Interesting change of subject. Attempt at grown up discussion with PB # 3. Obviously there's a difference between my calling a politician a retard based on his psuedo-religious crusade against women (including but not limited to the steps he has literally taken to Take Rights Away from Women) and you comparing me to Backlash based on............our social liberalism? (I see no other commonalities)

You still have not confirmed whether or not you agree with Ryans extremely consevative plan for our nation. I don't blame you for dodging that one though. I'd be embarressed to talk about that if I agreed with it.

[Parkbandit]

Interesting change of subject. Attempt at grown up discussion with PB # 3. Obviously there's a difference between my calling a politician a retard based on his psuedo-religious crusade against women (including but not limited to the steps he has literally taken to Take Rights Away from Women) and you comparing me to Backlash based on............our social liberalism? (I see no other commonalities)

So me calling you being similar to Backlash is trivializing your opinion.. but you calling Paul Ryan a retard is just.. well, that's ok because it's not even close to being the same thing.

Maybe you can't have an adult conversation with me because you don't have the prerequisite? Or at the very least, you don't understand the term hypocrite?



You still have not confirmed whether or not you agree with Ryans extremely consevative plan for our nation. I don't blame you for dodging that one though. I'd be embarressed to talk about that if I agreed with it.

I don't view Ryan's plan an "extremely conservative" plan. I favor putting together a budget that would cut spending... something that Obama or the Democratically controlled Senate hasn't done in the 3.5 years. I believe that there should be more cuts.. that a balanced budget that takes 28 years to balance is not the answer.

[Warriorbird]

I love it when people haven't actually read Ryan's plan.

[Parkbandit]

I love it when people haven't actually read Ryan's plan.

Me too.

Remember when your party was saying "ZOMG RYAN WANTS TO KILL GRANDMA AND END MEDICARE!".

Fucking idiots.

[Back]

Remember when your party was saying "ZOMG RYAN WANTS TO KILL GRANDMA AND END MEDICARE!".

No.

[Parkbandit]

No.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrdeyMNZW88&feature=player_embedded

[Back]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrdeyMNZW88&feature=player_embedded

ROFL. What the fuck was that? I've never seen that before and have no idea what it references.

I will say swapping out a dummy for a real person at the last second is always funny though.

[ClydeR]

Paul Ryan participates in the sport of "noodling." It's when you get in a pond or river, find an underwater hole in the bank, stick your hand in the hole, wait for the catfish in the hole to bite your hand, grab the fish from the inside, and withdraw your hand with a large catfish clamped around your forearm. They are good eating when they're fried the right way.

The main problem is when there's something in the hole other than a catfish, like a snake or alligator or beaver. Or it could be one of those snakehead fish that's invading from Asia.

Although there are no videos or photos of Ryan engaging in the sport, Politico (http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2012/08/the-cloakroom-noodling.html) has a general video about it. If Ryan is elected VP, then they should put noodling in the Olympics.

[Wrathbringer]

Paul Ryan participates in the sport of "noodling." It's when you get in a pond or river, find an underwater hole in the bank, stick your hand in the hole, wait for the catfish in the hole to bite your hand, grab the fish from the inside, and withdraw your hand with a large catfish clamped around your forearm. They are good eating when they're fried the right way.

The main problem is when there's something in the hole other than a catfish, like a snake or alligator or beaver. Or it could be one of those snakehead fish that's invading from Asia.

Although there are no videos or photos of Ryan engaging in the sport, Politico (http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2012/08/the-cloakroom-noodling.html) has a general video about it. If Ryan is elected VP, then they should put noodling in the Olympics.

Do you seriously have nothing better to do?

[ClydeR]

Do you seriously have nothing better to do?

What could possibly be more important than the election of the President?

I have other things to do, like finishing that anti-gravity ray, but it will have to wait until after November.

[Warriorbird]

Me too.

Remember when your party was saying "ZOMG RYAN WANTS TO KILL GRANDMA AND END MEDICARE!".

Fucking idiots.

While I'd call that extreme (but "DEATH PANELZ!"), reducing the ability of somebody on a fixed income to get care isn't exactly super thrilling.

[ClydeR]

According to Republican political consultant Roger Stone, David Koch promised $100 million of campaign spending to Romney in exchange for Romney's promise to choose Ryan for the VP.


My sources tell me David Koch played a key role in Ryan's selection and that Koch's wife Julia had been quietly lobbying for Ryan. The selection was cemented at the July 22nd fundraiser Koch held for Romney at the former's sumptuous Hamptons estate.

Koch pledged $100 million more to C-4 and Super PAC efforts for Romney for Ryan's selection.

More... (http://stonezone.com/)

[Tgo01]

As a narrative, that isn't much. The poll that matters.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

I just figured this needed a bump seeing as how the "poll that matters" has Romney and Obama tied at the moment.

[Warriorbird]

I just figured this needed a bump seeing as how the "poll that matters" has Romney and Obama tied at the moment.

Not much different than anything I've claimed. This is and will be a close race. If Republicans or Democrats try to claim otherwise, they're full of it.

[Parkbandit]

Not much different than anything I've claimed. This is and will be a close race. If Republicans or Democrats try to claim otherwise, they're full of it.

Irony.

[Warriorbird]

Irony.

Not really. I've told both sides I think it will be close.