Reid call's out Romney

[Jarvan]

Reid Yesterday on the Senate floor, then in an interview with the Huffington Post, stated that Romney hasn't paid taxes for 10 years. Then today, he stated again that he hasn't paid taxes for 10 years, BUT he has no proof, but the burden of Proof is on Romney to prove that he has, and has to release his tax records to prove it.

You know.. this is getting sad.

Frankly, if I was the Republicans, I would play the same game, screw it.

Get on the Floor and say, "Someone told me that Obama smuggled Drugs for a Colombian Drug Cartel, and killed a mule that was going to rat him out, now, I don't have proof of this, but the burden of proof is on him, he should come forward with a lie detector test to prove he didn't"

This is all just sad.

[Androidpk]

They sort of have in a way, they're asking to see Obama's license to kill, in regards to drone attacks.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/congress-disclose-obama-targeted-killing-memos

[Parkbandit]

Reid raped and killed a 12 year old girl in 1990. Someone told me so.

It's on this same level...

Pretty irresponsible of a member of Congress.

[Atlanteax]

Reid raped and killed a 12 year old girl in 1990. Someone told me so.

It's on this same level...

Pretty irresponsible of a member of Congress.

This is Harry Reid...

[Methais]

Obama used to do a lot of coke. It can be reasonably assumed that he did coke with his friends, which means that he would have passed the mirror with coke on it to said friends, which makes him a distributor, and therefore a felon.

But yeah Romney's the felon according to Obama camp.

I heard that Harry Reid is goatse's father, and taught him how to goatse himself. I have no proof, but it's what I heard, and it's up to Reid to disprove it.

[4a6c1]

It's almost like demanding that a candidate for the presidency show his birth certificate as proof of citizenship. Just craaaazy.

[Methais]

I still think Romney should say he'll release his taxes when Obama releases his college transcripts.

Might as well throw in those Fast & Furious documents too.

[Jarvan]

It's almost like demanding that a candidate for the presidency show his birth certificate as proof of citizenship. Just craaaazy.

Well, technically, a Candidate for president HAS to be a citizen, and yes, prove it. Granted, the FBI and I am sure CIA would have already done so.

Just like the IRS would know if Romney had not paid any taxes at all for 10+ years.

[4a6c1]

Right Jarvan............................except people still demanded that he publicly release the birth certificate despite official verifiation. So the situation is just as ridiculous.

[Archigeek]

Look up Dennis Hastert's interview where he says George Soros might have gotten his money from drugs, we just don't know. Comically absurd. You guys didn't think only one side of the aisle could make stupid statements did you?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/press_box/2004/09/dennis_hastert_on_dope.html

[Furryrat]

The Feds took down Wesley Snipes for tax evasion, and he is a smooshed fry on the floor of Burger King compared to the Whopper that is Romney. If such an accusation had merit, well, you figure it out.

[Jarvan]

It's not about merit. Reid didn't make the statement because he honestly believes it. Just read the comments in pretty much every news article. 90% of them are some form of someone saying "easiest way to prove him wrong Mitt is to release the records".

This just harkens back the the movie "The Contender". Someone lies about something you did, and suddenly YOU have to prove you didn't do it? Is that not the opposite of everything we are taught?

"I have been told Reid likes to Fuck sheep." "It's been said that Pelosi had a gangbang with underage highschool boys last year." "Newt once once raped a woman in his office in Congress."

None of the statements are true. The one difference is, Reid picked something Romney can Disprove, it's also something that if true, WOULD disqualify him from being president. The problem is, if Romney DOES release the tax returns, he is playing into their trap, it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation, and frankly I think Reid should be sanctioned for it. If he releases his returns, and he did NOTHING wrong, he will be called other names, and they will point out he paid say 16% which he should have, and how that isn't high enough blah blah blah. if he doesn't they will continue saying he paid no taxes, and that he is a criminal.

Now, you want to talk about Obama's birth certificate. I personally don't think that issue should have been pushed as it was. BUT, lets face it. There was very little empirical data of Obama being a citizen prior to him coming here for school. If it had been a republican who had spent 10 years or so growing up in a foreign country with duel citizenship. But you could say the same thing about ALOT of Obama's stuff. Where are his medical records? Why were they not released. Instead, a DR just said they are fine. Maybe he is still doing cocaine, hmm? Where are his college transcripts? Why are they considered classified information? What in there is he hiding? How did he even get into the colleges he did?

Also.. Reid doesn't release his tax information either. So.. Kettle much?

[TheEschaton]

Now, you want to talk about Obama's birth certificate. I personally don't think that issue should have been pushed as it was. BUT, lets face it. There was very little empirical data of Obama being a citizen prior to him coming here for school. If it had been a republican who had spent 10 years or so growing up in a foreign country with duel citizenship. But you could say the same thing about ALOT of Obama's stuff. Where are his medical records? Why were they not released. Instead, a DR just said they are fine. Maybe he is still doing cocaine, hmm? Where are his college transcripts? Why are they considered classified information? What in there is he hiding? How did he even get into the colleges he did?

Also.. Reid doesn't release his tax information either. So.. Kettle much?

Except THE VERY REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE he was running against was born in Panama in 1936 and didn't settle in the States til 1951, and no one questioned whether he was REAAAAAAAALLY born on a naval base or in some shit hospital in Panama.

Jesus Christ you're a fucking idiot.

[ClydeR]

Just like the IRS would know if Romney had not paid any taxes at all for 10+ years.

You have too much faith in the IRS. It's a government bureaucracy.

Romney has been running for president for the last decade. That makes him practically immune to audit. Indeed, Romney says it has been more than 10 years (http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2012/0730/Mitt-Romney-says-he-s-been-audited-by-the-IRS.-Does-that-matter) since the IRS last looked at this tax returns.

[ClydeR]

None of the statements are true. The one difference is, Reid picked something Romney can Disprove, it's also something that if true, WOULD disqualify him from being president. The problem is, if Romney DOES release the tax returns, he is playing into their trap, it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation, and frankly I think Reid should be sanctioned for it. If he releases his returns, and he did NOTHING wrong, he will be called other names, and they will point out he paid say 16% which he should have, and how that isn't high enough blah blah blah. if he doesn't they will continue saying he paid no taxes, and that he is a criminal.

It's almost like Romney demanding in 1994 that Ted Kennedy release his tax returnS to prove that he had nothing to hide (http://www.drudge.com/news/159069/romney-urged-kennedy-release-returns).

The trap for Reid is that Romney, like the politician in Isaac Asimov's "Evidence, (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?73747-Isaac-Asimov-and-Mitt-Romney)" will eventually reveal information proving that Reid's allegations are untrue, which could result in positive public sentiment for Romney.

The trap for Romney is that Reid will continue to goad until Romney is forced to release his tax returns. Anybody can look at Romney's 2010 tax return and know that Romney paid no capital gains taxes in 2009. Romney would still have been required to pay taxes on his 2009 earned income at the same rates as everybody else. If 2009 was similar to 2010, then the amount of Romney's earned income would have been "not very much (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7Z2Grnfiwc)" -- just $374,000 -- and would have been taxed at the same rate everybody else pays. It's certainly possible that Romney paid no capital gains taxes for 10 years if he engaged in the kind of illegal tax shelter transactions he promoted for Marriott. The public would likely view that as vindication of Reid.

[ClydeR]

RNC Chairman Reince Priebus called Harry Reid a "dirty liar" yesterday on ABC's This Week. Priebus said Reid has never filed his own tax returns. Perhaps Priebus meant to say Reid has never released his returns publicly.


“As far as Harry Reid is concerned, listen, I know you might want to go down that road. I’m not going to respond to a dirty liar who hasn’t filed a single page of tax returns himself. (He) complains about people with money but lives in the Ritz Carlton here down the street,” Priebus said. “So if that’s on the agenda, I’m not going to go there. This is just a made-up issue. And the fact that we’re going to spend any time talking about it is ridiculous.”

Reid, the Democratic Senate Majority Leader from Nevada, said in an interview with the Huffington Post last month that, according to a source that called his office, Mitt Romney did not pay taxes for ten years. The accusation was strongly denounced by Romney, who said it was false and that Reid needed to “put up or shut up.” Romney, the former governor of Massachusetts, has been under intense pressure by Democrats and even some in the GOP to release more tax returns. Romney has released his 2010 returns and an estimate for 2011.

More... (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/08/reince-priebus-sen-harry-reid-is-a-dirty-liar/)

Do you think Reid is lying about having spoken with a Bain investor who claimed Romney did not pay taxes for ten years? I think that, first, Reid actually had the conversation with a Bain investor, second, the Bain investor was just talking without any real knowledge, and, third, Reid ran with it even though he knew his source lacked credibility.

[Parkbandit]

Do you think Reid is lying about having spoken with a Bain investor who claimed Romney did not pay taxes for ten years? I think that, first, Reid actually had the conversation with a Bain investor, second, the Bain investor was just talking without any real knowledge, and, third, Reid ran with it even though he knew his source lacked credibility.

Who talks about their tax return with someone at work? Who talks about committing a serious crime with people you work with?

It's a really stupid argument that shows how desperate Obama is this election.

8.3% unemployment. Is that the longest period of time with 8+% unemployment? What is it.. 40 months now? 41?

[ClydeR]

Romney went after Reid again yesterday about the tax returns.


Mitt Romney called on Harry Reid Tuesday to reveal the source for his claim that the Republican presidential candidate has not paid taxes for 10 years, stepping up pressure as two major fact-check sites ruled Reid had no basis for the "incendiary" allegation.

Romney, in an interview with Fox News, said he doesn't believe Reid has a credible source but urged the Senate Democratic leader to reveal who it is.

More... (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/07/romney-calls-on-reid-to-reveal-source-as-fact-check-sites-challenge-tax-claim/)

It used to be accepted political wisdom that the person at the top of the ticked should never engage in tit for tat with anybody other than the person at the top of the ticket on the other side. That's what surrogates are for. I hope Romney knows what he's doing.

[Jarvan]

If I was Romney, I would go on every news show, and just flat out say Reid is a fucking Liar. I'd even use those words.

The only people that believe Reid is telling the truth is Reid, and the looney left. The rest of America knows he is lying out his ass, and would almost certainly enjoy hearing Romney call him out for it.

[Wrathbringer]

If I was Romney, I would go on every news show, and just flat out say Reid is a fucking Liar. I'd even use those words.

The only people that believe Reid is telling the truth is Reid, and the looney left. The rest of America knows he is lying out his ass, and would almost certainly enjoy hearing Romney call him out for it.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jarvan again.

[Parkbandit]

If I was Romney, I would go on every news show, and just flat out say Reid is a fucking Liar. I'd even use those words.

The only people that believe Reid is telling the truth is Reid, and the looney left. The rest of America knows he is lying out his ass, and would almost certainly enjoy hearing Romney call him out for it.

Even the crazy looney left.. aka TheE and Backlash.. don't believe Reid is telling the truth. Is there honestly anyone who believes Romney paid all those taxes in 2010 and 2011.. and didn't pay the taxes he was supposed to for 10 years prior to that? If that is the case, the IRS is more inept than anyone ever thought.

[Archigeek]

If I was Romney, I would go on every news show, and just flat out say Reid is a fucking Liar. I'd even use those words.

The only people that believe Reid is telling the truth is Reid, and the looney left. The rest of America knows he is lying out his ass, and would almost certainly enjoy hearing Romney call him out for it.

I think Reid is is full of it, but I'd love it if Romney would do just that for the opposite reason. If he did as you suggest, the obvious follow up question by the reporter is, "how much did you pay?" I find it amusing that a guy who doesn't want to really tell us anything about himself, or the details of his various plans once in office, ends up spending all his time defending himself. So far, the Romney campaign is going about it in pretty much the opposite way that anyone else does. Every "human interest" type story about Romney that speaks to what he might be like in person, has been at best strange and at worst just short of disaster, and yet here we are.

Is the Romney campaign waiting till after the convention to hit their stride, or are they as bad at this as they appear to be?

[Latrinsorm]

If you subscribe to my theory that the Republicans purposefully nominated someone to lose, it makes sense that their campaign would be this inept for two reasons: the nominee is presumably below average on election skillzzz (hence being nominated to lose) and they're not going to get much support from the party infrastructure. If you're putting up a tomato can you don't pay for his dietitian.

[~Rocktar~]

It will be real funny when this pretty lame candidate beats the Democrat party champion all star in the last 30 years candidate despite the gaffs.

[Parkbandit]

An unofficial rap sheet of alleged pederasty and sexual abuse of minors by anonymous sources that may not exist.

Named for Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) after an explosion of reports surfaced online and on the airwaves, that Senate is a serial pederast. The outlets reporting the allegations all protected the anonymity of their sources, and no one knows if the allegations are true, but they're out there. A spokesperson for Reid declined to deny them.


I read this online today. I already knew Harry Reid was a scumbag, so this didn't come as a shock to me.

[ClydeR]

I think they figured out Reid's source.


In a piece on the Daily Kos (you know the URL, and if you don't, you can look it up yourself), Kos speculates that the person feeding information to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid may be the father of former Ohio Governor, former Republican Candidate for President, and former Obama Ambassador to China, John Huntsman, S.

He may have uncovered a nugget here.

Kos writes: (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/09/1118428/-It-s-John-Huntsman-Sr-right-Harry)


Jon Huntsman Sr, is business partners with Robert C. Gay, who also happened to be Bain's managing director between 1989 and 2004. And if anyone knows the machinations Bain used to evade taxes for itself and its partners, well, it would be the guy in charge of the firm's finances.

Huntsman is also a Republican and a Mormon (like Harry Reid). As governor of next-door Utah, his son (who also served in the Obama administration as ambassador to China) likely developed a close working relationship on regional issues.

Want more? The Huntsman family gave some serious scratch to Reid's reelection campaign.

More... (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/330491)

[Some Rogue]

An unofficial rap sheet of alleged pederasty and sexual abuse of minors by anonymous sources that may not exist.

Named for Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) after an explosion of reports surfaced online and on the airwaves, that Senate is a serial pederast. The outlets reporting the allegations all protected the anonymity of their sources, and no one knows if the allegations are true, but they're out there. A spokesperson for Reid declined to deny them.


I read this online today. I already knew Harry Reid was a scumbag, so this didn't come as a shock to me.

It didn't come as a shock to you that someone thought they were being funny and made this into something on Urban Dictionary? lol

Yes yes, I know. This is what he did to your boy Mitt. But Urban Dictionary?

[Parkbandit]

It didn't come as a shock to you that someone thought they were being funny and made this into something on Urban Dictionary? lol

Yes yes, I know. This is what he did to your boy Mitt. But Urban Dictionary?

I cannot confirm or deny.. I just heard from a reliable source that Harry Reid likes to molest underage boys. It's really up to him to prove this is not true.

[Liagala]

Reliable?

[Kembal]

...

Why are you guys saying that it would have been illegal for Romney to not pay income taxes for 10 years? Granted, it seems extremely unlikely for 10, but with well-structured transactions and a whole hell of a lot of tax-loss carryforwards (or tax shelters), it would be legally possible for at least one or two years.

Reid's throwing bombs out there, but Romney's the one who got himself into this mess by not releasing the returns. I still can't believe he thinks it's acceptable to release only 2 years, when his own father released 12.

[Tgo01]

I can't believe Obama thinks it's acceptable to release only seven years of tax returns, Bob Dole released 30 years of tax returns.

[Parkbandit]

...

Why are you guys saying that it would have been illegal for Romney to not pay income taxes for 10 years? Granted, it seems extremely unlikely for 10, but with well-structured transactions and a whole hell of a lot of tax-loss carryforwards (or tax shelters), it would be legally possible for at least one or two years.

Reid's throwing bombs out there, but Romney's the one who got himself into this mess by not releasing the returns. I still can't believe he thinks it's acceptable to release only 2 years, when his own father released 12.

Did you really just blame Romney for Reid's extremely unethical accusation?

There is no law requiring a candidate to release any tax returns... and yet Romney still released the exact same amount as the last Republican candidate.

Now, let's get back to discussing the economy, unemployment record and historic debt for the last 3.5 years.

[Parkbandit]

Reliable?

As reliable as Reid's source, no?

[ClydeR]

(or tax shelters)

There are people in jail because of illegal tax shelters. The key word is "illegal." We do not know what kind of tax shelters Romney personally used, but we do know that Romney personally approved an illegal tax shelter for a corporation when he was on the corporation's board of directors. We also know that Romney has accounts in a number of tax haven countries, and those countries are often used for illegal tax shelters because of the difficulty of auditing transactions in those countries. And, finally, we know that Romney has promoted his alleged business acumen as a reason to vote for him. It seems like he's going to an awful lot of trouble to hide the details of his business acumen, even though he demanded that political opponents in prior elections release their tax returns.

Instead of asking why I join Ron Paul, Rick Perry, Ed Rollins, Jon Huntsman, George Will, Bill Kristol, Michael Steele, Haley Barbour, Brit Hume, Chuck Grassley and many others in asking Romney to be transparent on the issue that he says qualifies him to be President, I'd like to ask you why you have not been able to add two and two.

[Jarvan]

There are people in jail because of illegal tax shelters. The key word is "illegal." We do not know what kind of tax shelters Romney personally used, but we do know that Romney personally approved an illegal tax shelter for a corporation when he was on the corporation's board of directors. We also know that Romney has accounts in a number of tax haven countries, and those countries are often used for illegal tax shelters because of the difficulty of auditing transactions in those countries. And, finally, we know that Romney has promoted his alleged business acumen as a reason to vote for him. It seems like he's going to an awful lot of trouble to hide the details of his business acumen, even though he demanded that political opponents in prior elections release their tax returns.

Instead of asking why I join Ron Paul, Rick Perry, Ed Rollins, Jon Huntsman, George Will, Bill Kristol, Michael Steele, Haley Barbour, Brit Hume, Chuck Grassley and many others in asking Romney to be transparent on the issue that he says qualifies him to be President, I'd like to ask you why you have not been able to add two and two.

let me ask you this... if he released the returns, and it showed he made 20 mill a year, and paid 15% in taxes, would you then bich that he didn't pay enough? Or would you be fine since he would have paid exactly what he was required by law?

[Kembal]

Did you really just blame Romney for Reid's extremely unethical accusation?

Romney made himself vulnerable to the accusation by not releasing his returns. I have to assume there's a Swiss bank account in those returns somewhere, because I can't figure out what's so awful in the returns that Romney thinks it better not to disclose. (I am assuming Reid's wrong, and that Romney did pay federal income taxes.)


There is no law requiring a candidate to release any tax returns... and yet Romney still released the exact same amount as the last Republican candidate.

This discussion has never been about the law, PB. Romney has advanced a tax plan that would happen to give people of his income level massive tax cuts. I think it'd be fair to see exactly what that would mean for him personally. 2 years of returns are not enough to judge that, especially since we won't see the full 2011 return until after Sept. 15.


Now, let's get back to discussing the economy, unemployment record and historic debt for the last 3.5 years.

This campaign went off message 2 weeks ago, about the time Romney insulted the British. It's not getting back on track that easily.

[ClydeR]

You're engaging in wishful thinking. Everything points to a damaging secret in his earlier tax returns.

We know with 100% certainty that it's not the case that Romney paid a 15% rate in 2009. As I've explained before, Romney's 2010 tax return showed a capital loss carryforward from 2009. Therefore, Romney paid no capital gains taxes in 2009.

If his 2009 and earlier returns showed that he paid a 15% tax rate, then he would just release the returns, since that would be higher than the 13.9% tax rate Romney paid in 2010.

Whatever the secret is, it's much worse than a 15% tax rate.

[Tgo01]

Romney made himself vulnerable to the accusation by not releasing his returns. I have to assume there's a Swiss bank account in those returns somewhere, because I can't figure out what's so awful in the returns that Romney thinks it better not to disclose.

Maybe Romney realizes that no matter what his tax returns show the media and Democrats are going to pick him apart. No tax rate would be high enough.

[Showal]

REID CALL'S OUT ROMNEY! STOP THE PRESSES! REID CALL'S OUT ROMNEY!!! WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO SHOW POSSESSION OR USE THE CORRECT VERB TENSE!!!

[Jarvan]

This campaign went off message 2 weeks ago, about the time Romney insulted the British. It's not getting back on track that easily.

By insult the British you mean told the truth, the SAME thing the British themselves had said the day before he got there?

As opposed to when Michele Obama touched the Queen.. which is not done, and no one said a word.. got ya.

[Parkbandit]

Romney made himself vulnerable to the accusation by not releasing his returns. I have to assume there's a Swiss bank account in those returns somewhere, because I can't figure out what's so awful in the returns that Romney thinks it better not to disclose. (I am assuming Reid's wrong, and that Romney did pay federal income taxes.)

It's less likely that there is something "so awful" in his return and more likely that he doesn't want to give additional ammunition for the War on the Rich that our current President loves to engage in.


This discussion has never been about the law, PB. Romney has advanced a tax plan that would happen to give people of his income level massive tax cuts. I think it'd be fair to see exactly what that would mean for him personally. 2 years of returns are not enough to judge that, especially since we won't see the full 2011 return until after Sept. 15.

So, in your opinion, you would want anyone who has a hand in drafting a tax plan to release "enough" tax returns so you can judge how that tax plan would affect that individual's income?



This campaign went off message 2 weeks ago, about the time Romney insulted the British. It's not getting back on track that easily.

Could you quote the exact "insult" Romney leveled against the British? Was it that he hoped they were ready to host the Olympics?

Hopefully, Paul Ryan will be able to steer this distraction back onto what is important: The economy

[Showal]

Could you quote the exact "insult" Romney leveled against the British? Was it that he hoped they were ready to host the Olympics?

I think it's the Brits place to say whether they felt insulted by something he said. Being insulted is a pretty personal experience and it is hard to say whether something you said should be taken as an insult. Considering the British people were referring to Romney as the "American Borat", I think we can say something he said was insulting to them. Some times people can say something about themselves but when someone turns around and agrees, it's offensive.

I don't really care. I believe both candidates are idiots at this point. I think the political landscape has been in a sharp decline over the last few decades and it is nothing short of depressing nowadays. We have a Congress that wanted to default on our debts, ruin our credit rating, and make us look like fucking idiots to the rest of the world for what? To make the current president look like an idiot? They can't agree on anything, not because they don't actually agree or because they are incapable of compromise, but because the relations politically have degraded to the point where they think agreement looks like weakness and limits their party's chance of an election. It's happening on both sides of the fence. Everyone needs to grow the fuck up.

[Parkbandit]

I think it's the Brits place to say whether they felt insulted by something he said. Being insulted is a pretty personal experience and it is hard to say whether something you said should be taken as an insult. Considering the British people were referring to Romney as the "American Borat", I think we can say something he said was insulting to them. Some times people can say something about themselves but when someone turns around and agrees, it's offensive.

He basically repeated the same lines that were uttered in their government days prior to Romney coming to England. :shrug:


I don't really care. I believe both candidates are idiots at this point. I think the political landscape has been in a sharp decline over the last few decades and it is nothing short of depressing nowadays. We have a Congress that wanted to default on our debts, ruin our credit rating, and make us look like fucking idiots to the rest of the world for what? To make the current president look like an idiot? They can't agree on anything, not because they don't actually agree or because they are incapable of compromise, but because the relations politically have degraded to the point where they think agreement looks like weakness and limits their party's chance of an election. It's happening on both sides of the fence. Everyone needs to grow the fuck up.

Who specifically in Congress "wanted us to default on our debt" because this is the first time I've read that. I'm pretty sure it wasn't a real Republican.. given their stance on self - responsibility. Defaulting on debt sounds more like a Progressive trait.


"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies...

Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Also this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyLmru6no4U

[Showal]

If you read my post, I wasn't arguing one side wanted to default more than the other. They both pushed us dangerously close to default for no reason other than childish bickering. No side handled it well. Now there are the mandatory cut backs set to happen in the shitty agreement because they haven't addressed the original issue and both sides are trying to make it look like it's the others fault. You know no one "wanted" to default, so don't hold me to my word choice because we both Know the situation was absurd. I was in another country wondering if I should have brought monopoly money because if it defaulted, I should just walk through the streets and let people pelt me with my country's worthless currency. I got asked daily what our government was doing. And it was fucking embarrassing. There's no pride in a government that's held up on no brain issues.

[Parkbandit]

If you read my post, I wasn't arguing one side wanted to default more than the other. They both pushed us dangerously close to default for no reason other than childish bickering. No side handled it well. Now there are the mandatory cut backs set to happen in the shitty agreement because they haven't addressed the original issue and both sides are trying to make it look like it's the others fault. You know no one "wanted" to default, so don't hold me to my word choice because we both Know the situation was absurd. I was in another country wondering if I should have brought monopoly money because if it defaulted, I should just walk through the streets and let people pelt me with my country's worthless currency. I got asked daily what our government was doing. And it was fucking embarrassing. There's no pride in a government that's held up on no brain issues.

I read your post.. but it sounded like you were blaming one party more than the other.. I'll bold that part:


I don't really care. I believe both candidates are idiots at this point. I think the political landscape has been in a sharp decline over the last few decades and it is nothing short of depressing nowadays. We have a Congress that wanted to default on our debts, ruin our credit rating, and make us look like fucking idiots to the rest of the world for what? To make the current president look like an idiot?

Unless you are saying that Democrats are now trying to make the current President look like an idiot?

Granted.. you circled back and "included" Democrats..

[Showal]

That was in part the motivation. That's hard to disprove. You yourself have said the Republican party has become the party of no. But whatever, this isn't a one side problem. And that's just one thing I brought up. It's fucking stupid, all of it. The politicians are looking out for their party instead of the public. This isn't a new problem, I realize, but it has gotten worse in the last few decades and it's getting progressively worse.

[Some Rogue]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=falgrin

[Showal]

I read your post.. but it sounded like you were blaming one party more than the other.. I'll bold that part:



Unless you are saying that Democrats are now trying to make the current President look like an idiot?

Granted.. you circled back and "included" Democrats..

I think when you read my first post, you stopped after you got to the sentence you had bolded but did not continue on to this bolded part.


I don't really care. I believe both candidates are idiots at this point. I think the political landscape has been in a sharp decline over the last few decades and it is nothing short of depressing nowadays. We have a Congress that wanted to default on our debts, ruin our credit rating, and make us look like fucking idiots to the rest of the world for what? To make the current president look like an idiot? They can't agree on anything, not because they don't actually agree or because they are incapable of compromise, but because the relations politically have degraded to the point where they think agreement looks like weakness and limits their party's chance of an election. It's happening on both sides of the fence. Everyone needs to grow the fuck up.

[Parkbandit]

I think when you read my first post, you stopped after you got to the sentence you had bolded but did not continue on to this bolded part.

I didn't stop reading your first post.. which is why I commented on this part:


Granted.. you circled back and "included" Democrats..

It was like how NBC claims they are unbiased... a long story about how mean and racist the Republicans are and then a closing remark about how the Democrats are too.. and boom, unbiased!

[Parkbandit]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=falgrin

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rennick

[Some Rogue]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=rennick

Rennick was yours...

[Parkbandit]

Rennick was yours...

Not in 2005...

[Some Rogue]

A likely story.

[Showal]

I didn't stop reading your first post.. which is why I commented on this part:



It was like how NBC claims they are unbiased... a long story about how mean and racist the Republicans are and then a closing remark about how the Democrats are too.. and boom, unbiased!

I guess we are reading different NBC articles. I haven't seen one that start by calling both candidates idiots.

[Tgo01]

I think The Onion (http://www.theonion.com/articles/romney-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-new-obama-campaign,29114/) nailed it in regards to this whole tax return fiasco. I know The Onion is a left leaning political rag but they raise some good points.


'Romney Murdered JonBenét Ramsey,' New Obama Campaign Ad Alleges



CHICAGO—With campaign rhetoric becoming increasingly heated and both presidential nominees releasing more attack ads, a new 30-second spot from the Obama campaign this week accuses his opponent Mitt Romney of committing the 1996 murder of 6-year-old beauty pageant queen JonBenét Ramsey.

Titled “He Did It,” the advertisement asks if anyone can truly remember where Romney was the night of the child’s murder, and whether the U.S. populace wants a president capable of strangling a little girl and dumping her body in her parents’ basement.

President Obama appears at the end of the advertisement to approve the message.

“I think this is a fair ad, and I think Mitt Romney owes an explanation to the American people as to why he murdered JonBenét Ramsey,” said Obama campaign manager Jim Messina, who called the commercial’s black-and-white reenactment of Mitt Romney carrying a kicking and screaming child to her death “accurate.” “Ultimately, voters need to know who they’re getting with Mitt Romney: a job- and child-killing businessman who is so deceitful he won’t release his tax returns or admit to a senseless murder that shook the nation to its core.”

Scheduled to run in multiple swing states, with significant airtime in Ramsey’s home state of Colorado, the ad criticizes Romney not just for killing the prepubescent girl, but for going to extreme lengths to cover it up. It also states that Mitt Romney paid former school teacher John Mark Karr to falsely come forward as the murderer, and accuses the former Massachusetts governor of being a sex offender.

Over a silhouette of Romney walking away from the Ramsey mansion—blood dripping from his hands—the commercial’s narrator asks, “If Mitt Romney kept the murder of JonBenét a secret from the American people, what else is he hiding?”

Moreover, at the end of the spot a smiling Romney is seen at a campaign event saying, “I killed her, and I had a good time.” Sources from the Romney campaign were quick to announce that the audio and video had been cobbled together from different statements he made during that particular rally.

“Personally, if I killed JonBenét Ramsey, I would have come clean and told the American people that on day one,” Obama’s communication director David Axelrod said on Sunday’s installment of Meet The Press. “But I think that’s a key difference between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Barack Obama never murdered a child, and Mitt Romney did.”

According to sources at Obama’s Chicago headquarters, the “He Did It” commercial is just the first in a new series of attack ads that accuses Romney of drowning actress Natalie Wood in 1981, convincing cult leader David Koresh to burn down the Branch Davidian ranch in Waco, TX, and causing the Challenger disaster.

“I think these ads will end up being very effective,” former Bill Clinton campaign strategist Dick Morris said. “If you are an undecided voter and you are constantly seeing images of Mitt Romney standing over a child’s lifeless body, or, as in the case of the ‘Zodiac’ spot, shooting two high schoolers at point blank range on their first date, that’s a pretty persuasive image right there.”

Added Morris, “This ad very effectively reminds us that no child murderer has ever been elected into the White House.”

Though the Obama campaign has denied it, many Beltway observers have said the advertisements are retaliation for the Romney camp’s highly controversial ad, “Boom,” which accuses the president of being the fertilizer bomb that destroyed an Oklahoma City federal building in 1995.

[Androidpk]

According to an unreleased Onion report Romney is also Paul's real father.

[ClydeR]

Ryan provided "several" years of tax returns to Romney.


Myers said vetting documents were stored in safes in a secure room at campaign headquarters for review by attorneys.

Asked what was inside the safes, Myers replied "tax documents, everything we used.”

And how many years? "Several" she said, declining to provide a more specific number.

More... (http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/romney-campaign-examined-tax-returns-of-potential)

And on ABC's This Week this morning, Tim Pawlenty said he was required to provided a "bunch" of years of tax returns when he was being vetted, but he refused to say how many.

[Kembal]

It's less likely that there is something "so awful" in his return and more likely that he doesn't want to give additional ammunition for the War on the Rich that our current President loves to engage in.

What else is a Swiss bank account but that type of ammo? That's my definition of awful for this discussion...politically awful, not anything to do with legality. (i.e. we're not disagreeing here.)



So, in your opinion, you would want anyone who has a hand in drafting a tax plan to release "enough" tax returns so you can judge how that tax plan would affect that individual's income?

At an elected level, yes! Charles Rangel should've been releasing his tax returns as well, while he was the head of House Ways and Means. (maybe we would have realized he had 4 rent-controlled apartments then...I forget how that was figured out.)

I'd have no problem if all 535 members of Congress released their tax returns upon election. House/Senate disclosure forms aren't enough. And if you're going to be a major party nominee for President, you better be releasing tax returns.


Could you quote the exact "insult" Romney leveled against the British? Was it that he hoped they were ready to host the Olympics?

Listen, if a bunch of Republican pundits collectively went ::facepalm:: after what he said, I think we can presume that he committed an insult. No matter what, it's bad form to say anything other than "I'm sure [host country] is ready to host the Olympics, and they're going to do a great job!"


Hopefully, Paul Ryan will be able to steer this distraction back onto what is important: The economy

Nein. Looks like Medicare's the next discussion.

[Parkbandit]

No matter what, it's bad form to say anything other than "I'm sure [host country] is ready to host the Olympics, and they're going to do a great job!"

I would rather a politician tell me the truth than something that will make me happy.


Nein. Looks like Medicare's the next discussion.

I'm absolutely confident with Paul Ryan having a discussion about Medicare.

[Jarvan]

Nein. Looks like Medicare's the next discussion.

Umm.. maybe I am wrong, but isn't Medicare PART of our Economy? or is about 560+ Billion dollars spent by our government each year not included in our Economy and the fiscal well being of our country?

[Showal]

Umm.. maybe I am wrong, but isn't Medicare PART of our Economy? or is about 560+ Billion dollars spent by our government each year not included in our Economy and the fiscal well being of our country?

Um maybe I'm wrong but your posts are always retarded and filled with unnecessary capital letters.

[Kembal]

I would rather a politician tell me the truth than something that will make me happy.

And they should, in explaining how domestic and foreign policies will impact the country and all of its citizens. In a discussion of whether one of your most important allies is ready to stage a sporting event, however, discretion is the better part of valor.


I'm absolutely confident with Paul Ryan having a discussion about Medicare.

Which is great, but no Medicare discussion revolves around putting the economy back on track. It revolves around its long term future, and that has no bearing on creating jobs and economic growth in the next 3-4 years. (Ryan's plan for Medicare wouldn't really kick in for another 10 years, if I remember correctly.)

i.e. the Romney campaign is off-message because it's not talking about economic growth plans, and I think we both agree that Romney's only path to victory is convincing everyone he has a better plan for economic growth than President Obama does.

Jarvan, does that explain my comment?

[Jarvan]

Um maybe I'm wrong but your posts are always retarded and filled with unnecessary capital letters.

Um, maybe I am wrong but but it seems like you're deflecting. Of course, people always deflect when you point out something they don't like to hear.

[Showal]

Um, maybe I'm wrong but you spelled "you're" wrong and that's a skill that should have been mastered in the sixth grade.

[Androidpk]

But but!


Um, maybe I am wrong but but it seems like your deflecting. Of course, people always deflect when you point out something they don't like to hear.

[Tgo01]

Romney says he has never paid less than 13% in taxes in last 10 years. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/mitt-romney-tax-rate_n_1790411.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing10|dl1|sec1_lnk1%26pLid%3D193366)

Just go ahead and release your tax returns then. Seriously if he's going to come out and admit the lowest he has paid (which is pretty damn low for a millionaire) then what more is he hiding by not releasing his returns? I thought he was doing something smart by just ignoring the issue altogether but if you're going to engage in the game go all the way.

[Archigeek]

Romney says he has never paid less than 13% in taxes in last 10 years. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/mitt-romney-tax-rate_n_1790411.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing10|dl1|sec1_lnk1%26pLid%3D193366)

Just go ahead and release your tax returns then. Seriously if he's going to come out and admit the lowest he has paid (which is pretty damn low for a millionaire) then what more is he hiding by not releasing his returns? I thought he was doing something smart by just ignoring the issue altogether but if you're going to engage in the game go all the way.

Something we can agree on. At this point, until he releases more information, the assumption of a large number of voters will be that he's hiding something.

[ClydeR]

Something we can agree on. At this point, until he releases more information, the assumption of a large number of voters will be that he's hiding something.

If a vulcan were here, he would tell you that's the only logical conclusion.

Romney's refusal to release his tax returns is playing into the overall view that Romney keeps too many secrets, including secrets about what he plans to do when elected.


On taxes, this lack of transparency goes beyond the amounts he paid; tax experts think the returns could shed light on Romney’s various offshore accounts and any techniques — fully legal, but perhaps difficult to explain politically — he used to keep his rates low. Romney has stuck to this stance even though multiple Republicans, including his longtime backer and fundraiser Jon Huntsman Sr., have called on him to come clean with the American people.

That’s only the begining. Romney won’t reveal the names of his major bundlers, even though he’s taken a drubbing from major editorial boards for failing to do so. Romney has claimed he wants to eliminate whole government programs and agencies, but has freely admitted he won’t specify which ones, because so doing could be political problematic. Romney did let a bit of detail slip about which programs and agencies he’d consolidate or eliminate, but only in a closed-door fundraiser that was overheard by reporters.

Romney has proposed a tax overhaul that he vows will be revenue neutral, but he won’t say which loopholes and deductions he’d close to ensure that his plan’s deep tax cuts on the rich will be paid for without hiking the middle class’s tax burden. And not only that, but Romney and his running mate have freely confirmed in interviews that they see no need to reveal these details until after the election — after which, they claim, it can all be worked out with Congress. And so on.

More... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/mitt-romneys-just-trust-me-campaign/2012/08/16/a1a28542-e7bf-11e1-936a-b801f1abab19_blog.html)






At some level, Mr. Romney doesn’t seem to understand that voters don’t automatically trust the assurances and promises of politicians. He and his wife seem genuinely shocked that they are being pressed to provide paperwork about the details of their financial lives.

More... (http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/16/just-trust-me/)


But more broadly, this haughty trust-me attitude—why can’t we escape these pestering questions and run on our own obvious goodness and decency?—extends to the rest of Mr. Romney’s campaign. He’s not just keeping his old tax returns secret. His tax plan is so vague that analysts can’t score it without making broad assumptions. He won’t admit that his government-contraction program will require cuts to popular programs. He hasn’t told the truth about the difference between Mr. Ryan’s proposed Medicare cuts and President Obama’s, and voters are starting to realize it.

Last week, he released an ad accusing the president of ending the work requirement for welfare that was blatantly false.

[Jarvan]

If a vulcan were here, he would tell you that's the only logical conclusion.

Romney's refusal to release his tax returns is playing into the overall view that Romney keeps too many secrets, including secrets about what he plans to do when elected.

if a Vulcan was here, he would find our entire system flawed and think we are all infantile for even caring.

[Warriorbird]

Romney says he has never paid less than 13% in taxes in last 10 years. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/16/mitt-romney-tax-rate_n_1790411.html?icid=maing-grid7|maing10|dl1|sec1_lnk1%26pLid%3D193366)

Just go ahead and release your tax returns then. Seriously if he's going to come out and admit the lowest he has paid (which is pretty damn low for a millionaire) then what more is he hiding by not releasing his returns? I thought he was doing something smart by just ignoring the issue altogether but if you're going to engage in the game go all the way.

Pretty much. His Dad would have called him on it were he alive. He's the one who pioneered the practice.