NBA Playoffs!!!

[Latrinsorm]

Eastern Conference
76ers at Bulls
Knicks at Heat
Magic at Pacers
Celtics at Hawks

Western Conference
Jazz at Spurs
Mavericks at Thunder
Nuggets at Lakers
Clippers at Grizzlies

As detailed in this (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=70243) thread, 57 of the previous 62 NBA Champions had the best or second best record in their conferences. This year that corresponds with the top 2 seeds. The only team of the remaining 12 with a losing record in close games and a winning record in blowouts is the 76ers (5-10, 19-9).

Therefore, it will be historically unprecedented if any team but the following five win the championship:

Bulls
Heat
76ers
Spurs
Thunder

.

As detailed in this (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?t=68943) thread, ignoring the close games entirely can improve statistical predictions. The first round matchups where this suggests a potential upset are:

Hawks (61.36%) over Celtics (60.42%) (although this is an upset due to seeding only, as the Hawks have the better overall record)
Nuggets (56.82%) over Lakers (55.26%)
Clippers (65.12%) over Grizzlies (59.52%)

If the Clippers really do advance when the Lakers don't, I think the universe might implode.

(Extending the analysis after the first round is straight chalk.)

.

Another historically remarkable point about the Lakers is that they ended up playing 28 close games this year, or 42.4% of their 66. This is an amazingly high percentage. It is the highest of any playoff team of the previous 10 years, and the third highest of any team at all after the 2002 Rockets (45.1%) and 2009 Pacers (45.1%). The last (and only) NBA champion with so many regular season close games was the the 1958 Hawks (43.1%). It's especially interesting because it is not a trend with the Lakers: they were slightly below average in each of the past 3 years.

.

I believe the Heat will beat the Bulls if they make it that far, I don't believe the Spurs will make it terribly far, and I finally believe the Heat can beat anyone from the Western Conference, so I personally am picking the Heat. NBA playoffs!!!

[Tisket]

I don't like that you didn't make the poll public. If you had I could wait until after the playoffs to vote and then claim victory. I hate when someone thwarts my cheating.

[Androidpk]

and I finally believe the Heat can beat anyone from the Western Conference, so I personally am picking the Heat. NBA playoffs!!!

Big surprise, you've been slurping on Lebrons dick all season long.

[Atlanteax]

I think Heat will win out ... but I'm rooting for the Lakers to win in the West.

[Drew]

Boo, no public poll. How am I going to personally PM all the Heat haters at the end of the playoffs otherwise (although I've been freeze drying a turd sandwich in my fridge for a month or so that I'm Fed-Exing to Keller when they win)?

[Kembal]

This poll is discriminating against the Clippers.

(I picked Thunder, btw. Playoffs = Lebron choking)

[AnticorRifling]

Pacers to sweep....the courts because day took our jerbs.

[Latrinsorm]

Look. It took me two tries to get the poll at all. Cut me some slack, Jack and Jacqueline.

[RichardCranium]

Thunder.

[SHAFT]

Anyone but the Pacers. That will be expensive.

[Some Rogue]

Da Bulls

[Latrinsorm]

The espn.com expert picks:

Eastern Conference
76ers at Bulls - 13 of 13 Bulls, avg. 5.2 games
Knicks at Heat - 12 of 12 Heat, avg. 5.7 games
Magic at Pacers - 12 of 12 Pacers, avg. 4.8 games
Celtics at Hawks - 11 of 12 Celtics, avg. 6.2 games, 1 Hawks in 7

Western Conference
Jazz at Spurs - 12 of 12 Spurs, avg. 5.2 games
Mavericks at Thunder - 13 of 13 Thunder, avg. 5.8 games
Nuggets at Lakers - 14 of 14 Lakers, avg. 6.0 games
Clippers at Grizzlies - 10 of 14 Grizzlies, avg. 6.8 games, 4 Clippers avg. 6.5

Yahoo sports Finals predictions:
Thunder over Heat (2)
Heat over Thunder
Spurs over Heat
Heat over Spurs
Lakers over Celtics

Last year none of the Yahoo experts had the Mavs in the Finals and only one had the Heat. After 5 of 6 selected Blazers over Mavs for potential upset, there is no potential upset field this season (lol).

SI Finals predictions:
Lakers over Pacers (rofl)
Thunder over Celtics
Heat over Spurs (2)
Heat over Thunder
Spurs over Bulls

Last year there were only 4 SI experts, all of whom whiffed on the Finals with some combination of Thunder, Lakers, Celtics, Bulls.

Aggregate West
Thunder and Spurs (5)
Lakers (2)

Aggregate East
Heat (8)
Celtics (2)
Bulls and Pacers (1)

Aggregate Champion
Heat (5)
Thunder (3)
Spurs and Lakers (2)

.

If anyone tells you the Heat were the favorites last year too, laugh at them.

[WRoss]

I've got tickets to the 2nd round of playoffs if the Bulls get there. They should.

[SHAFT]

I've got tickets to the 2nd round of playoffs if the Bulls get there. They should.

Didn't look good for rose today. That'll suck if he's hurt bad. Da bulls are a lot more exciting with him

[Jace Solo]

Why aren't the clippers on the poll again?

[Latrinsorm]

I preferred the opportunity to take a cheap shot at Joe Lacob and (by extension) Rick Barry.

The NYK-MIA game was hard to watch. Not just because it was an unrelenting beat down that further cemented Carmelo's status as a good stats completely incapable of translating to team success guy, but Shumpert blowing out every ligament in his knee, Baron Davis continuing to think he should shoot 3s, Mike Bibby continuing to think he can play basketball, Mike Woodson continuing to hold a head coaching position, I could go on...

LeBron with 32 points on an astonishing 14 (America!!!) FGAs. Playing it up for calls, yes, but let's not go Van Gundy on the Chandler "flagrant". LeBron is a big guy, but Chandler is bigger, and whiplash really hurts. If Carmelo had been drafted in any other year, his historical status would be so much better off, but he simply can't compete with LeBron. All the "look how hot Carmelo is, he can swing a game on his own!" articles look even more stupid now.

[SHAFT]

I listened to the Mia game while driving and every time the Knicks touched the ball I heard "another turnover from the Knicks"!

[Latrinsorm]

According to Mike Breen they had 20 turnovers... in the second quarter. I count 13, so maybe he was talking the first half, but still. Being on track for 52(!!!!!!!!!) turnovers is not a great sign.

I have never seen a team so flummoxed by fronting in the post. It was like they had never seen it before: multiple balls thrown out of bounds, one so badly that Chris Bosh (who is if nothing else pretty tall) could barely save it on the baseline... when the intended target Melo was 20 feet away at the wing.

Finally, Amar'e? Amar'e? Bueller?

[Ardwen]

Heat Celtics for the east title it would appear with how things went today, sucks about Rose though

[Soulpieced]

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nba/story/_/id/7867795/chicago-bulls-goal-nba-finals-shredded-derrick-rose-injury

Soulpieced sympathizes as he has no ACLs either.

[SHAFT]

Go Orlando! I know it's game 1, but they shouldn't ever beat the pacers without Dwight Howard. I haven't looked at the stats, but I guess Perkins stepped up.

Sorry Keller, I'm rooting against ya pal.

I'm also a huge Dallas fan. I do not want to see the lake show play okc. Only one person voted the lakers and that person was me. Go LaL

[Latrinsorm]

Just brutal. Just... brutal. Shumpert also torn ACL, donezo.

Could it be possibly set up better for the Heat now? Sheesh. No Howard, no Rose, their biggest test is shaping up to be the friggin' Hawks.

[Latrinsorm]

So what's the craziest box score of the night...

Kidd: 8 pts, 6 rebs, 5 assists, 7 steals
Carmelo: -35
LeBron: +35, 32 points on 14 FGA
Hibbert: 9(!!) blocks and 13 rebounds, but only 3 of 11 for 8 points against... Glen Davis??.

[WRoss]

Didn't look good for rose today. That'll suck if he's hurt bad. Da bulls are a lot more exciting with him

Noah was on fire. Talk about passionate.

[DoctorUnne]

Could it be possibly set up better for the Heat now? Sheesh. No Howard, no Rose, their biggest test is shaping up to be the friggin' Hawks.

Which will make everyone go all the more batshit crazy if they stumble.

[WRoss]

http://i.imgur.com/fAjXK.jpg

[Atlanteax]

Amare Stoudemire = shining example of being a composed player

[Latrinsorm]

He (Amare) has been playing so poorly I would almost think the Knicks are better off, but who are they going to bring in? Josh Harrellson? Dan Gadzuric? Just dumb dumb dumb.

Speaking of dumb, Rajon Rondo! I didn't think the Celtics were winning the series anyway, but I don't see how they could possibly win now.

Also on the ticker: Jordan Hill (http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/7873075/los-angeles-lakers-jordan-hill-charged-choking-case) and felony assault. After playing 18 minutes in his first 21 Laker games, he's played 89 in the last 3, abruptly displacing Josh McRoberts. Supposedly he won't miss any playing time, but you would have to figure it will disrupt him, right?

[Latrinsorm]

Rumors flying around the twitterverse suggesting the actual source of Amare's injury was an altercation with a teammate. Also delightful puns involving the Heat and the glass.

[Latrinsorm]

Want to see something really sad? Espn's 10 greatest Nets (http://espn.go.com/newyork/photos/gallery/_/id/7844199/espn-ny-10-greatest-new-jersey-nets). 36 years and they've produced 1 NBA Hall of Famer, and he only played about a third of his career there.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

The NBA has been dead since Bird, Johnson, Jordan, Barkley, etc left.

That is all.

[Drew]

The NBA has been dead since Bird, Johnson, Jordan, Barkley, etc left.

That is all.

I agree, football has been dead since Jim Brown left.

[SHAFT]

I agree, football has been dead since Jim Brown left.

Wrong. Since Jim thorpe

[DoctorUnne]

Speaking of dumb, Rajon Rondo! I didn't think the Celtics were winning the series anyway, but I don't see how they could possibly win now.

Agree it was dumb and the Celtics probably won't win the series but I don't think it's that inconceivable. Assume they go down 2-0. All the Hawks have done is hold home court. If the first two were in Boston it would be a different story. Pretty sure being down 2-0 wouldn't faze the former champions. All they need to do is win at home and steal one of two on the road which they're obviously capable of doing. I'd give them maybe a 15-20% chance and that's if they don't win tonight which isn't out of the question. Didn't they lose by like 5 in ATL at the end of the season when they sat Pierce, Allen, KG AND Rondo?

The series will come down to how often Josh Smith tries hard. We can't keep him off the glass if he tries. But he's pretty lazy.

[Basketball Jones]

Yes, I am the victim of a Basketball Jones
Ever since I was a little baby, I always be dribblin'
In fac', I was de baddest dribbler in the whole neighborhood
Then one day, my mama bought me a basketball
And I loved that basketball
I took that basketball with me everywhere I went
That basketball was like a basketball to me

[Androidpk]

Beastly performance by Pierce tonight.

[Latrinsorm]

There's always that.

[DoctorUnne]

I was right. Josh Smith stopped trying towards the end of the 4th

[Atlanteax]

I see why Barkley thinks Denver can beat LA Lakers, but Kobe & Bynum seem too dominant.

It can only be troubling for the Lakers with how many layups the Nuggets scored ... but it seemed like Bynum/Gasol were out-of-position on some of them.

It will be interesting to see if the Lakers can avoid giving away so many layups / transition points.

.

In the meantime, it looked like the Bulls had a solid chance to win game 2, but just fell apart in the 3rd quarter?

Currently seems like a foregone conclusion that Miami Heat will be East champs.

[Latrinsorm]

Jordan Hill's impact on the series so far has been comically underrated. The Lakers have gotten out rebounded in both games with him, they could easily be looking at a 1-1 series if Josh McRoberts was still getting those minutes. This is especially important if Kobe continues to go into Kobe mode: volume shooting is even worse without the Lakers' usual rebounding advantage.
I was right. Josh Smith stopped trying towards the end of the 4thlol

I forgot the most important thing about the Hawks: they are the Hawks. I still think they'll win the series, though.

[Latrinsorm]

Mike Woodson has got to go, like, today. Don't even let him in the locker room. This is the second game in a row he's played Carmelo every minute of the second half, and it's the second game in a row he's fallen apart down the stretch. This isn't just Carmelo being overrated, this is outright dumb coaching. He is physically incapable of this, you might as well ask him to levitate. (His blatantly breaking off a play in the first quarter in favor of an isolation 26 feet from the basket was pretty sad, too.)

19 points, 7 rebounds, 0 assists, 5 of 8 from 3... what's up Mario Chalmers? Miami boxscores are so quirky.

Want to see something cool? Each team has 8 guys who have played more than 30 minutes (out of a possible 144). If you add up their +/- per MP, from best to worst they are:

0.624 LeBron James, SF
0.598 Chris Bosh, PF
0.561 Udonis Haslem, PF
0.544 Dwyane Wade, SG
0.393 Mario Chalmers, PG
0.329 Shane Battier, SF
0.319 Mike Miller, SG
0.106 Joel Anthony, C
-0.167 Mike Bibby, PG
-0.243 J.R. Smith, SG
-0.370 Amare Stoudemire, PF
-0.435 Tyson Chandler, C
-0.463 Steve Novak, SF
-0.465 Baron Davis, PG
-0.514 Landry Fields, G
-0.582 Carmelo Anthony, SF

[Atlanteax]

Yet the commentators were talking about how to somehow move Amare elsewhere... and then go "well, that's a 3 years left contract for $60 million ... no one is gonna take that" and then go on about how Carmelo and Amare will have to learn how to play together.

But obviously, that is not going to happen.

Btw, did you get the perception that was Baron Davis looking to establish himself early on in the game?

Guess it is easy to overlook that 'Linsanity' was 'successful' because he distributed the ball to *everyone*.

How are you going to do that with Carmelo fully involved?

[Latrinsorm]

I remember he and Chalmers got in that little scuffle, is that what set him off? Whatever caused it, when Baron thinks he should shoot, and JR thinks he should shoot, and Carmelo thinks he should shoot, and the coach is unable or unwilling to step in... it's a fiasco. The Knicks had 8 assists tonight! 8!!! It's a miracle they reached 70.

And the kicker... the Knicks have $61.5 million committed to Chandler/Amare/Carmelo in 2015. The salary cap this year was $58 million.

Carmelo/Lin/Amare had some good games together in the regular season, when Carmelo was taking about 15 shots a game instead of 20-25. For whatever reason I think Lin can pull it off where Baron is failing so dreadfully, and we know Amare can (or even needs to) play in a team framework from his time in PHX. They just need to get a non-bonehead for a coach.

[SHAFT]

Carmelo is the worst. Send him to Milwaukee or GS

The only hope for Carmelo is Phil Jackson coming in, conforming to the triangle, and altering his game to Jackson's vision.

[Latrinsorm]

Speaking of bad coaching situations, the Lakers! Two distinct articles on espn today on how underutilized/underrated Bynum is, my favorite being Henry Abbott's. Some great statistical tidbits:

-In Game 2 against the Nuggets, Bynum caught the ball in the paint 11 times and scored 10 times. We have some fun with JaVale McGee, but he's no joke when it comes to defense: long, agile, interested. 10 for 11!!!
-Bynum's regular season PER was tied for 10th (actually 8th). Kobe's was 15th. (Pretty close.)
-Bynum's true shooting percentage was 10th. Kobe's was 160th(!!!). (Not very close.) (True shooting percentage is PTS / (2 * FGA + .44 * FTA), correcting ordinary shooting percentage for 3 pointers and fouls drawn.)
-Nevertheless, Bynum's usage rate was 79th(!?!?!), Kobe's was 1st.

No one can argue that Kobe is a Hall of Famer. Similarly, no one can argue that among active players he is currently third in career minutes played, behind only Jason Kidd and Kevin Garnett. Every other player in his mileage strata has seen their minutes and usage rate plummet:
-Duncan is at a career low in MP and 4th lowest Usage
-Ray Allen is at 2nd lowest MP and lowest Usage
-Kidd is at career lows in MP and Usage
-Garnett is 3rd lowest MP and 6th lowest Usage

Kobe's Usage is the second highest of his career, trailing only the (all time highest) mark of his disastrous 2006 campaign. His 35.7 rate this season is the 8th highest mark of all time! (His MP are middle of the pack for his career, 8th highest or 9th lowest, take your pick.) The highest Usage rate ever recorded on a championship team is Michael Jordan's 34.71 (19th) on the 1993 Bulls. The highest by someone other than the greatest player of all time? Dwyane Wade's 32.48 (48th) on the 2006 Heat.

This is why I do not take the Lakers seriously as a title contender. Yes they have an insane size advantage with Bynum, Gasol, and even Hill out of nowhere... but they refuse to utilize it!! Kobe can't or won't go back to the days when he was a great basketball player next to and behind Shaq, even as his talents are evaporating before our eyes. This is also why I questioned and continue to question trading away draft picks, even when they end up working out shockingly well... sooner rather than later the Lakers have to build around Bynum.

[Drew]

You talk as though Kobe would allow himself to be played less.

[Drew]

BTW did anyone see the two douchebags courtside at the Knicks game with the Delonte West jerseys? Keep it classy Knicks fans!


One guy even wore it backwards just in case Lebron didn't really "get it".
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1098264/delonteclones.gif

[Latrinsorm]

I am ever hopeful that the lightbulb will go off for Kobe. Me and Larry Bird, we focus on potential. Him taking 19 shots against 21 combined for Bynum and Gasol so far tonight is... deleterious to that hope.

.

I also wanted to give Durant a little love. Here are the people who have three-peated as NBA scoring champion:

Durant
Jordan (twice, one being a seven-peat)
Gervin
McAdoo
Chamberlain (also a seven-peat)
Johnston

Pretty good, right? Kobe did forfeit the title this year, but still, surprising how little MSM attention Durant got.

[Latrinsorm]

16 points on 12 shots, 15 rebounds (6 offensive!!), 4 blocks off the bench. Hey Washington, how is Nene working out for you. Keep laughing. Keep yukking it up.

[Latrinsorm]

Oh yeah and one more thing: Kobe scored 22 points on 23 FGAs and 10 3PAs. The only other player since 1985 to score that few points on that many shots and 3s in the playoffs is Scottie Pippen on the 1999 Rockets (19 on 23 and 11, though he did pull down 17 rebounds) against....... the Los Angeles Lakers! In a frankly eerie coincidence, Kobe had 24 points on 25 shots in that game.

[Constal]

btw.. leviathor and I have a bet for a whole 500k aka around $4.. which makes me laugh.. that if the Heat and Sixers meet up ... in the playoffs.. that the sixers will win the series.. Just so it's noted...

Furthermore, another 500k.. that the Heat won't win the Finals, when they have to face OKC, The Spurs.. or the Lakers..

The Heat just won't do it. As great as Lebron is.. the Heat as a team will fall short.

It's documented, Let IT RIDE!

[Latrinsorm]

btw.. leviathor and I have a bet for a whole 500k aka around $4.. which makes me laugh.. that if the Heat and Sixers meet up ... in the playoffs.. that the sixers will win the series.. Just so it's noted...I hope you at least got odds. The Heat killed the 76ers in the regular season, and last year in the playoffs, and the Heat are better this year, so...
Furthermore, another 500k.. that the Heat won't win the Finals, when they have to face OKC, The Spurs.. or the Lakers..

The Heat just won't do it. As great as Lebron is.. the Heat as a team will fall short.

It's documented, Let IT RIDE!It's hard to go wrong betting on the field. I think the Heat are going to win, but from a financial perspective I would rather bet on the other 15 teams put together if I had the option.

[SHAFT]

Lakers ftw

[Atlanteax]

Kobe almost costed Lakers their game 4 win with the forced shots he was taking ... fortunately Sessions and Blake and Hill bailed him out (what unlikely 'heros').

[Latrinsorm]

Hill has been crazy good. After the trade I thought he had nice stats in limited action, which is always tough to draw conclusions on, but he clearly deserved more playing time both with the Rockets and for the first 20whatever games he was with the Lakers. I know why he wasn't playing on the Lakers for so long (Mike Brown is not a good coach), but who the heck was he playing behind in Houston? Near as I can tell it's the awesomely named but fairly unproductive Patrick Patterson.

This series would absolutely be 2-2 at best without Hill. Isn't it so weird to think about how we would view Kobe's career if Kupchak hadn't stolen Pau and stumbled upon Hill?

Pau's first year, 2008: Lakers get out of the first round for the first time since Shaq. Lakers were an astonishing 22-5 with Pau and 35-20 without, 35-20 prorates to 52-30 instead of 57-25, putting them at the 6 seed(!!!) instead of the 1. Do they get out of the first round? Hard to figure, right?

2009: Need 7 games to get past the Rockets in a bizarrely uneven second round series.
Game 1 - lose by 7 at home
2 - win by 13 at home
3 - win by 14 on the road (Yao Ming injured, misses rest of series)
4 - lose by 12 on the road
5 - win by 40(!!!) at home
6 - lose by 15(???) on the road
7 - win by 19 at home
Do they get past the Rockets without Pau?

2010: Need 7 games to get past the Celtics, including a 4 point win in Game 7 during which Pau puts up 19 points, 18 rebounds, and leads the team with 4 assists.
They definitely don't beat the Celtics without Pau, right? Does Kobe push for a trade (again) without more help? Does Bynum mature as well (which isn't saying a hell of a lot) without Pau frequently being the only person who actually passes him the ball?

And now this year. Do they get out of the first round this year without Hill?

.

I'll admit a lot of this is just idle speculation, but I think it's important to keep in mind just how much Kobe's teams failed without these particular roster moves when so much of his historical cachet is based on team success.

[Atlanteax]

I'll admit a lot of this is just idle speculation, but I think it's important to keep in mind just how much Kobe's teams failed without these particular roster moves when so much of his historical cachet is based on team success.

Cue how the 2004 Detroit Pistons beat a heavily favored LA Lakers with Kobe & Shaq (and Payton & Malone).

[DoctorUnne]

Latrin if your life depended on team USA winning the gold medal game in which they are tied against Spain with 2 minutes left in the game and you have to choose between LeBron and Kobe on the floor (you can't have both), who would you choose?

[Androidpk]

Latrin if your life depended on team USA winning the gold medal game in which they are tied against Spain with 2 minutes left in the game and you have to choose between LeBron and Kobe on the floor (you can't have both), who would you choose?

Do you even have to ask?

[Drew]

2 minutes, Lebron. 1 shot, Kobe.

[WRoss]

I'm sad that I have tickets to the Bulls game tomorrow. I get to go see them get eliminated, very likely.

[SHAFT]

I'm sad that I have tickets to the Bulls game tomorrow. I get to go see them get eliminated, very likely.

Stubhub those thangs

[Latrinsorm]

Latrin if your life depended on team USA winning the gold medal game in which they are tied against Spain with 2 minutes left in the game and you have to choose between LeBron and Kobe on the floor (you can't have both), who would you choose?Easy, Chris Paul. Rose sure as hell ain't playing point.

[SHAFT]

I know lebron is winning the MVP, but is anyone more valuable to their team than Chris Paul? The cleepers couldn't sniff the playoffs without him, and with him they finished as the 4 seed and are a game away from beating a very good Memphis team. San Antonio vs lac will be interesting

[Latrinsorm]

Chris Paul has been the literally most valuable player for about 5 years running, but that's never really been what the MVP is about. This really ties in nicely to what we were just talking about though, with Kobe's only MVP win in 2008 coming in the only year Chris Paul was really eligible by being on a high seeded team. In hindsight and looking at the supporting casts it's a little crazy that Kobe got the nod:

28.3 / 6.3 / 5.4, 1.8 steals, 46% shooting, 24.2 PER
21.1 / 4.0 / 11.6 (leading league), 2.7 steals (leading league), 49% shooting, 28.3 PER

It's totally plausible that Kobe has no year where he deserved an MVP.

.

My favorite stat from last night: all "6 feet" of Chris Paul leading his team in rebounding with 9. CHRIS PAUL. Dude does not mess around.

[WRoss]

Awww yeah. One game closer to getting to use my 2nd round tickets. Also, I ran into an old crush and hit things off. Amazing night.

[AnticorRifling]

What was his name?

[WRoss]

Robb Eltov. He promised not to .357 me.

[Latrinsorm]

A great tidbit I read from Haberstroh's twitter: Yao Ming's entire NBA career took place between the Knicks' last two playoff wins. ISIAH!!!!!!!!!

[Latrinsorm]

LeBron: 29 points, 16 FGA, 7 assists
Carmelo: 35 points, 31 FGA, 1 assist

Good luck with your 6 seed next year, Knick fans.

edited to add: thank God we will finally be spared comments about how Tyson Chandler CHANGED THE CULTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! defensively in New York. Use some synonyms, people.

[SHAFT]

Ind vs Mia will be good

[SHAFT]

I liked wilbon's comments about Bynum. The guy is a baby. Bynum could be soooooo good, so dominate. He has the mental fortitude of a 15 year old. As a lakers fan I hope he grows the frack up soon

[Latrinsorm]

Put yourself in his shoes, though. After you average a very respectable 12.8 points, 9.7 rebounds, and 2.6 blocks per 36 minutes (at the age of 19!!), the marquee player of your team and arguably of the league at the time publicly (and frankly Dwight-esquely) demands a trade, then de-demands a trade, then re-demands a trade, then... and if that wasn't enough it comes out that he wanted you specifically gone.

You struggle with some injuries, but you play every game of both playoff runs that end in Lakers Finals victories. You don't play terribly well in 2009, but in 2010 you show flashes of brilliance: a 21 point (on 10 shots!!), 6 rebound, 7 block game in the Finals, a 17/14/4 in 29 minutes against Utah... overall you record a 17.3 PER and .570 True Shooting %, at the age of 22 and on a bum knee. Meanwhile Kobe goes 6 for 24, 11 of 15 from the line, 4 turnovers in the deciding game 7 and gets Finals MVP. This works out to about 35 possessions. You get 5.

Now it's 2012. You're clearly coming into your own. You're arguably the most productive player on the team, both overall and per touch. You get 13.3 FGAs per game. Kobe takes 12.6 from 16 feet or further alone, and is mediocre at them. His overall FG% on those shots is .373, below average among high volume shooters, and closer to guys like Danny Granger (.376) and Andrea Bargnani (.367) than Kevin Durant (.424) and Dirk Nowitzki (.454). Even noted basketball sociopath Nick Young manages .406 on bombs. Among the 67 players who attempt 200 threes, Kobe's .303 is good for 66th place.

You're even doing all of this at about 60% of Kobe's price tag. He's due $53m over the next two years, you're getting $31.

Now it's the playoffs, and you're putting up an 18/10/3.6 on 60% FG against one of the only teams in the NBA that has a snowball's chance of competing with your size. Meanwhile, Kobe's taking 26.6 shots a game. Your usage rate is lower than Chris Bosh, Roy Hibbert, Spencer Hawes.

.

Put all this together, and you tell me whether you would hold a little grudge, be a little petulant.

[Latrinsorm]

Just seen on espn's gamecast of the LAL-DEN game: a 5 second turnover for the Lakers... out of a timeout.

[Atlanteax]

Lakers are gonna be kicking themselves that they did not seal the series in game 5 (granted it took a Kobe rally at the end to even have a chance of winning).

[DoctorUnne]

My favorite stat from last night: all "6 feet" of Chris Paul leading his team in rebounding with 9. CHRIS PAUL. Dude does not mess around.

Rondo averages like 9 rebounds a game

[Latrinsorm]

Rondo averages like 9 rebounds a gameIt seems that way, right? He actually averages 4.4 over his career, CP3 4.5.

I'm disappointed in Kobe's comments about his teammates, but I'm absolutely disgusted sportswriters are playing along with him. He took 16 long range shots last night, 16!!! You want your teammates to show heart, how about passing the freaking ball. Bynum had 16 rebounds, 4 blocks, 3 assists, 0 turnovers, and 0 fouls in 30 minutes. Kobe chucks for 37 minutes and he's the hero? Disgusting.

[Ryvicke]

Put yourself in his shoes, though. After you average a very respectable 12.8 points, 9.7 rebounds, and 2.6 blocks per 36 minutes (at the age of 19!!), the marquee player of your team and arguably of the league at the time publicly (and frankly Dwight-esquely) demands a trade, then de-demands a trade, then re-demands a trade, then... and if that wasn't enough it comes out that he wanted you specifically gone.

You struggle with some injuries, but you play every game of both playoff runs that end in Lakers Finals victories. You don't play terribly well in 2009, but in 2010 you show flashes of brilliance: a 21 point (on 10 shots!!), 6 rebound, 7 block game in the Finals, a 17/14/4 in 29 minutes against Utah... overall you record a 17.3 PER and .570 True Shooting %, at the age of 22 and on a bum knee. Meanwhile Kobe goes 6 for 24, 11 of 15 from the line, 4 turnovers in the deciding game 7 and gets Finals MVP. This works out to about 35 possessions. You get 5.

Now it's 2012. You're clearly coming into your own. You're arguably the most productive player on the team, both overall and per touch. You get 13.3 FGAs per game. Kobe takes 12.6 from 16 feet or further alone, and is mediocre at them. His overall FG% on those shots is .373, below average among high volume shooters, and closer to guys like Danny Granger (.376) and Andrea Bargnani (.367) than Kevin Durant (.424) and Dirk Nowitzki (.454). Even noted basketball sociopath Nick Young manages .406 on bombs. Among the 67 players who attempt 200 threes, Kobe's .303 is good for 66th place.

You're even doing all of this at about 60% of Kobe's price tag. He's due $53m over the next two years, you're getting $31.

Now it's the playoffs, and you're putting up an 18/10/3.6 on 60% FG against one of the only teams in the NBA that has a snowball's chance of competing with your size. Meanwhile, Kobe's taking 26.6 shots a game. Your usage rate is lower than Chris Bosh, Roy Hibbert, Spencer Hawes.

.

Put all this together, and you tell me whether you would hold a little grudge, be a little petulant.

Basketball nerd headshot, 'trin. Get yourself some sneakers.

[Latrinsorm]

I happened to play 2 on 2 today and got an owie on my calf, MR. YVICKE.

[Androidpk]

I happened to play 2 on 2 today and got an owie on my calf, MR. YVICKE.

More like

http://pics.mobygames.com/images/covers/large/1072049434-00.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

The last minute of the MEM-LAC game has taken about half an hour. Is anyone going to make a free throw???

[Latrinsorm]

Second round!

Philadelphia at Boston
Indiana at Miami
Lakers at Oklahoma City
Somebody at San Antonio

The Lakers only barely beat the Nuggets (with home court!), ending up being outscored by 3 points on the series, do they stand a chance against OKC? It's weird how in many ways the Thunder are just a better version of the Nuggets:
-Russell Westbrook's fast is faster than your fast
-Ibaka is like an even more hyperactive JaVale McGee
-Perkins and Mohammed are big bodies like Mozgof and Koufas
-Harden and Miller both play the old man game, but Miller's lack of Harden Beard is a critical weakness
-Durant is a slippery wing like Gallinari only a million times better in every way (except for they both have pretty pathetic facial hair)

Take that one sequence near the end where Gasol got about 19 offensive rebounds in a row while stiff arming Faried. By about the third one Perkins would just hammer him on general principle, right?

.

Philly Boston is an interesting matchup. In the regular season Philly won by 32 and 13, and Boston won by 24. The 76ers have a lot of athletes, a strong bench, a lot of youth. Boston has Rondo and whatever they can squeeze out of their vets. Rondo had a 13/12/17 and Garnett had 29 and 11, and they only won the first game by 1 point at home. Even though it's a 4 vs 8, they were only separated by 4 games in the standings, and the records are even closer when close games are removed: 60.4% to 58.8%.

.

Heat are going to beat the Pacers. Duh.

.

Espn predictions:
13 of 14 Thunder, avg. 6.2 games, 1 (not Adande!!) Lakers in 6.
12 of 12 Celtics(!!), avg. 5.9 games
16 of 16 Heat, avg. 5.6 games

[Latrinsorm]

Something just occurred to me: the Celtics have home court in round 2 after not having it in round 1. That's weird, has that happened before?

As it turns out, yes! and as recently as 2007, when the 4th seeded Jazz beat the 5th seeded Rockets on the road and hosted the 8th seeded Warriors who had upset the 1st seeded Mavericks.

[SHAFT]

Lakers in 4!

[Latrinsorm]

Lakers in 4!That seems... increasingly unlikely.

I'm only watching the gamecast, what's going on with Kobe? Only 8 shots is astonishing.

.

espn.com predictions were in today for Clips Spurs: 14 of 14 Spurs, avg. 5.6 games. For reference, this is very similar to the average prediction for Heat over Knicks, which seems a little rough, dings or no dings.

[Atlanteax]

Lakers in 4!

They'll need to settle for stealing game 2 at this point, ala Philadelphia.

[Atlanteax]

In fact, if I was Mike Brown, I'd sit Kobe, Byrum, Gasol for the entire 4th quarter since they're down by 30.

Get rested up for Game 2... don't risk injury ... don't risk stupid stunts ... and get some time in for the Reserves.

[SHAFT]

I turned it off a while ago. I'd rather listen to my girl watch dancing with the stars then watch the lakers get crushed. sigh

[Androidpk]

Kobe is currently 7 for 18. How about passing the ball if you can't score?

[Latrinsorm]

To be fair, Kobe took very few shots in the first half (for him). I don't know if he was passing or just sulking, and 5 of those 7 were long jumpers, but still.

[Constal]

Metta World Peace is going to have to throw an elbow to connect with Durant's face in order for the Lakers to come through with this win after barely pulling through against the Nuggets.

Secondly, does anyone else feel (especially Lakers fans) as though Mike Brown was the totally wrong pick for headcoach of the Lakers? I think so.

On the upside, to lighten things up for the Lakers, better they got blown out in OKC game 1 and can draw up a new game plan and make up for their embarassing loss.

OKC has playoff experience now.. are a better team than last year. The Lakers were pretty much dominated by them all season (except for the last game of the year, which I don't feel counts since Harden took a blow). Hopefully they make some adjustments because I was really looking forward to a great series.

[DoctorUnne]

I like Chalmers taking the last shot there even though he missed. He's hit a bigger shot than LeBron's ever hit and clearly isn't afraid of taking the final shot like LeBron.

[Androidpk]

Hells yeah, go Indiana!

[SHAFT]

Lakers in 7!

[the fat white duke]

Lakers in 7!

lol

[Constal]

I want to know the stats for any other player hitting THE LAST FINAL shot on Lebron's Cavaliers team or even the Miami Heat at the end of regulation playoffs and regular seasion (you can even include Dwayne Wade in there) FOR THE WIN. I'm sure it is bitter sweet if you can find that one for me.. HINT HINT LATRIN. Pretty sure Lebron took 99% of all game deciding shots for the Cavs.. so won't find too many #'s there.. I can already think of 3 times this season just off the top of my head that when Lebron didn't take the final shot, it ended up in the Heat losing. Your best bet is to go to Lebron.

[Constal]

I like Chalmers taking the last shot there even though he missed. He's hit a bigger shot than LeBron's ever hit and clearly isn't afraid of taking the final shot like LeBron.

Wait what? When? In his NBA Career? Lebron has hit bigger shots than Chalmers. Namingly at the end of regulations in past previous playoff experiences especially as a Cavalier. I don't even think Chalmers has an even near buzzard beater in his career in the NBA in the 4th quarter in a regular season game, let alone playoff (If he has, I don't remember it, and if I'm wrong, it wasn't worth remembering?) After Chalmer's missed that last shot, it'll probably be his LAST LAST SHOT chance as a Miami Heat. HAHAHA

[Latrinsorm]

He's just messing with us. Everyone with a memory going back more than 5 years knows LeBron's "struggles" as a "closer" are a media narrative and nothing more. He's probably referring to the 2008 NCAA Championship game for Chalmers' shot.

To your other question, it's a little complicated. Check out this game (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/200403270CLE.html), for instance. The Nets are up 1 with 25.9 seconds left and the ball, LeBron gets a steal and (probably) a breakaway layup: 16.1 seconds left. The Nets miss a shot, LeBron gets a rebound and (probably) another breakaway layup.

Now, does that second layup negate this game for our purposes? He certainly didn't win the game on the very last shot, would we therefore think better of him if he had chosen to run around in circles? Apparently no one on the Nets was fast enough to catch him.

.

At halftime the Lakers are on track for 6 assists in the game. 6!! The only playoff game since 1986 with that many or fewer is an astonishing 3 assist game by the 2000 New York Knicks: Latrell Sprewell, Patrick Ewing, and Marcus Camby with one a piece. That must have been a fun game to watch.

[Latrinsorm]

Speaking of closing...

Lakers up 75-70, 2 minutes left.
1:47 Kobe turnover, Durant steal
1:45 Durant dunk, Lakers up 75-72
1:39 Blake turnover
1:23 Durant misses 3, Bynum rebound
1:00 Kobe shot blocked by Harden, Perkins rebound
56.1 Harden layup, Lakers up 75-74
36.4 Kobe misses 3, Westbrook rebound
18.4 Durant makes 7-footer, Thunder up 76-75
Lakers timeout

Astonishingly, the Thunder still have a foul to give, and use it with 5.7 seconds left. Astonishingly, Kobe doesn't get it in the act of shooting or before 13 seconds have elapsed.

3.9 Blake misses 3, Sefolosha rebound 2 full seconds later, game over

[Atlanteax]

Lakers literally gave Game 2 away ... complete breakdown at the end.

Minus the turnovers, Lakers would had won. Blake hitting that 3 would had meant something.

[Androidpk]

:) @ Celtics and Thunder

[Keller]

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff390/ShaneDawg021/kobepout.png

[Androidpk]

http://i49.tinypic.com/dh4l5g.jpg

[SHAFT]

They were close. Steve Blake taking that 3 pointer was cringe worthy. Whatever

[RichardCranium]

I didn't watch the second half, but the Thunder were getting fucked over hard by the refs in the second quarter.

[Atlanteax]

They were close. Steve Blake taking that 3 pointer was cringe worthy. Whatever

A big opportunity that they will regret not securing...

Pressure is on Lakers now to win 2-3 in a row.

[Latrinsorm]

Some meta-analysis:

McMenamin describes the Peace pass to Blake: "Sure, [Kobe] was ticked off that World Peace didn't follow the play and go to the first option of Bryant or the second option of Andrew Bynum, but what good would it do to throw World Peace and Blake under the bus?"

Adande describes the Peace pass to Blake: "Metta World Peace inbounded to Steve Blake in the right corner, and Blake fired up a 3-pointer that felt to him it would be off to the right as soon as he shot it. 'Kobe was coming up the middle of the floor,' Blake said, describing the play. 'I was in the corner to be an outlet. Russell Westbrook ran off of me. I was wide open.' It was a sensible basketball play. Open man gets the shot."

Why doesn't McMenamin touch upon Adande's point, that Blake was open? Isn't that the point of options? This guy's covered, this guy's covered, that guy's open, give that guy the ball. Peace would have had to thread it past/between Ibaka, Durant, and Sefalosha to get it to Kobe. If Bynum really was the second option, he was on the wrong side of Perkins to catch the pass, and Westbrook was lurking between him and Peace as well, 15 feet away from Blake.

And here's the part nobody has mentioned yet. Sefolosha only got the rebound because Kobe misplayed it. If Kobe blocks out with strength, he's in perfect position for a put-back to go up 1, Pau has Ibaka and Perkins sealed off. If he fouls immediately instead of throwing up his hands and letting Pau chase Sefolosha down, the Lakers have 2.9 seconds instead of 1.0 to get their next foul.

[DoctorUnne]

I didn't realize losing Bosh would be so important. Anthony and Haslem or whoever else Miami has at PF and C are SO BAD

[Androidpk]

Pacers in 5.

[Ardwen]

Did Wade bet on the pacers?

[Latrinsorm]

Look for a big swing back the other way in game 4. The officiating was pretty ridiculous, if they start calling West on those cheap shots he's liable to get thrown out in the second quarter.

I'm also hoping Hansbrough gets thrown out... basically for being Tyler Hansbrough and yelping like a purse dog on every play. A lot of guys do the verbal flop, but his voice is just really annoying.

Haslem has been killing them. Not really sure what's up with him. Turiaf has been playing well. I have no idea why Pittman started. One of the only things Pittman is good at is scoring in the post, he's not going to get any touches with the starters on the court.

[AnticorRifling]

.

Heat are going to beat the Pacers. Duh.



I lol'd

[Androidpk]

Denied!

http://i46.tinypic.com/24goc9l.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

I lol'dFor the record, that was pre-Bosh tummy owie...

...and it's only game 3. Let's not start sucking each others' popsicles just yet, hoosiers.

[AnticorRifling]

Scynd?!

[Drew]

Denied!

http://i46.tinypic.com/24goc9l.jpg

You realize the guy is literally pulling on Lebron's arm in this pic, right? Even if that game was called fairly I don't think the Heat would have won last night but I expect things to return closer to normal next game. I'm not too worried.

[Keller]

You realize the guy is literally pulling on Lebron's arm in this pic, right? Even if that game was called fairly I don't think the Heat would have won last night but I expect things to return closer to normal next game. I'm not too worried.

If things were called fairly, Wade would have been ejected from Game 2 for the forearm shiver and Lebron would have been ejected from Game 3 for the missed elbow in the 4th quarter (insert joke about LBJ missing in the 4th quarter).

[Drew]

You're on the bandwagon hate right now Keller. The league even reviewed the Wade one and said it was called correctly. Lebron wasn't trying to elbow the dude, in fact Lebron is one of the biggest pushovers in the game so pretending he tried to elbow someone just discredits you.

[AnticorRifling]

Well hell as long as the calls our going the way of "my team" it's fair.

[Keller]

You're on the bandwagon hate right now Keller. The league even reviewed the Wade one and said it was called correctly. Lebron wasn't trying to elbow the dude, in fact Lebron is one of the biggest pushovers in the game so pretending he tried to elbow someone just discredits you.

The league didn't suspend one of the top 5 players on a team they need to advance for revenue purposes?

I'm pretty sure Goodell suspended James Harrison for lesser offenses.

And Lebron is lucky he can't hit in the fourth quarter, because had that uppercut elbow made contact with Granger's chin he would have been out of that game and possibly the rest of the series.

[Atlanteax]

And Lebron is lucky he can't hit in the fourth quarter, because had that uppercut elbow made contact with Granger's chin he would have been out of that game and possibly the rest of the series.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111128023860/glee/images/3/3d/Oh_snap.gif

[Latrinsorm]

The league didn't suspend one of the top 5 players on a team they need to advance for revenue purposes?

I'm pretty sure Goodell suspended James Harrison for lesser offenses.

And Lebron is lucky he can't hit in the fourth quarter, because had that uppercut elbow made contact with Granger's chin he would have been out of that game and possibly the rest of the series.Do you really think LeBron was aiming for Granger's chin? As opposed to, for instance, the arms that were pulling on his jersey?

[Keller]

Do you really think LeBron was aiming for Granger's chin? As opposed to, for instance, the arms that were pulling on his jersey?

You're kidding, right?

Granger's arms were at LeBron's waist. LeBron's elbow was above his shoulder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XfHNurkHU4

[SHAFT]

You're on the bandwagon hate right now Keller. The league even reviewed the Wade one and said it was called correctly. Lebron wasn't trying to elbow the dude, in fact Lebron is one of the biggest pushovers in the game so pretending he tried to elbow someone just discredits you.

Keller has a 2m at bet 25/1 that the pacers win the whole thing. He's a bit biased

[Latrinsorm]

You're kidding, right?

Granger's arms were at LeBron's waist. LeBron's elbow was above his shoulder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XfHNurkHU4LeBron's elbow ended above his shoulder, he doesn't throw it until Granger is already halfway past him, and he hits him in the arm that's pulling his jersey, so... no, I'm not kidding.

[Androidpk]

The arms were pulling his jersey down by the middle of his back. If Lebron was trying to hit the arms he was off by quite a lot. Just like his shooting in 4th quarters.

[AnticorRifling]

LeBron's elbow ended above his shoulder, he doesn't throw it until Granger is already halfway past him, and he hits him in the arm that's pulling his jersey, so... no, I'm not kidding.



Does an elbow that is thrown have to hit to be a thrown elbow?

What is the penalty for throwing an elbow, regardless of it hitting?

[Keller]

Keller has a 2m at bet 25/1 that the pacers win the whole thing. He's a bit biased

I've also been a Pacers fan since I could remember.

[Keller]

LeBron's elbow ended above his shoulder, he doesn't throw it until Granger is already halfway past him, and he hits him in the arm that's pulling his jersey, so... no, I'm not kidding.

I generally respect your opinion on things basketball related.

This is one of those times that requires me to use the word "generally."

[Keller]

You're on the bandwagon hate right now Keller. The league even reviewed the Wade one and said it was called correctly. Lebron wasn't trying to elbow the dude, in fact Lebron is one of the biggest pushovers in the game so pretending he tried to elbow someone just discredits you.

And it's not true that I am on the bandwagon hate.

I like the Heat and I really like LBJ. Just not when they're playing the Pacers (and potentially, if they turn this series around, when they're playing OKC).

[Latrinsorm]

Does an elbow that is thrown have to hit to be a thrown elbow?

What is the penalty for throwing an elbow, regardless of it hitting?"If elbow contact is shoulder level or below, it shall be left to the discretion of the official as to whether the player is ejected." They also have the discretion to assess a flagrant foul, but I don't think they're allowed to when play is dead.
The arms were pulling his jersey down by the middle of his back. If Lebron was trying to hit the arms he was off by quite a lot. Just like his shooting in 4th quarters.That's where the business end of the elbow was (and the elevation where he in fact made contact), the middle of his back. Looking at where the elbow follows through to is just crazy.

[Keller]

"If elbow contact is shoulder level or below, it shall be left to the discretion of the official as to whether the player is ejected." They also have the discretion to assess a flagrant foul, but I don't think they're allowed to when play is dead.That's where the business end of the elbow was (and the elevation where he in fact made contact), the middle of his back. Looking at where the elbow follows through to is just crazy.

Right, it's crazy, especially when the motion begins after the player has released your jersey and you've slowed down to allow him to collide with you, making his chin within range of your swinging elbow.

LeBron should be thanking Granger for continue to run by him and avoiding that elbow - or it would have been Wade trying to carry the merry bunch of scrubs to victory for the rest of the series.

[Keller]

Seriously, I just keep re-watching it, Latrin, hoping to see what you're seeing because I want to understand what you're arguing. It's just not supported by the video evidence.

[Drew]

Seriously, I just keep re-watching it, Latrin, hoping to see what you're seeing because I want to understand what you're arguing. It's just not supported by the video evidence.

Lebron gets grabbed from behind then as Granger's passing him his upper arm hits Lebron's face, Lebron puts his arm up to guard his face. I don't know what you guys are talking about with thrown elbow. Especially since we're talking about Lebron here.

[Latrinsorm]

He clearly hits him in the forearm, which was at his waist at the time, I don't know what you want from me. He didn't slow down out of malice, he slowed down because a 200 pound athlete was pulling his jersey and the play was dead. They're neck and neck as LeBron is throwing the elbow, and if you think LeBron James doesn't know exactly where Granger was you're crazy. Why do you think LeBron and Paul George were laughing about it 2 seconds later?

[Keller]

Do you really think LeBron was aiming for Granger's chin? As opposed to, for instance, the arms that were pulling on his jersey?


They're neck and neck as LeBron is throwing the elbow, and if you think LeBron James doesn't know exactly where Granger was you're crazy.

Seriously, either this is a joke or someone hacked Latrin's account.

He's not this wildly inconsistent in his arguments.

[Keller]

Lebron gets grabbed from behindcorrect then as Granger's passing him his upper arm hits Lebron's faceincorrect, Lebron puts his arm up to guard his facecan't say what LBJ was thinking, but seems unreasonable reaction. I don't know what you guys are talking about with thrown elbowit's in the video. Especially since we're talking about Lebron here.

My responses in red.

[Atlanteax]

Watching the video, Lebron is lucky that his elbow did not connect with Granger in any fashion resembling Ron Artest's 'smackdown' of James Harden.

As then, instead of team injuries as an excuse, he would be (yet again) personally blamed as the culprit, for the "failed" Heat 2012 season (assuming it resulted in him being suspended and the Heats being eliminated by the Pacers).

[Drew]

If the Pacers beat the Heat expect to see Bosh, Mike Miller and Norris Cole to the Magic for D. Howard.

[Keller]

If the Pacers beat the Heat expect to see Bosh, Mike Miller and Norris Cole to the Magic for D. Howard.

D12 and LBJ is my go-to NBA2k12 franchise.

I usually go fantasy draft with the Wizards, set the order so I pick first, snag LBJ. Then I pick like Rondo and David West with the 2nd/3rd round picks. Trade them to whoever picked D12 (have to enable override for trades, computer never agrees to the trade).

It's such a sick combo.

[SHAFT]

When does football start?

[Androidpk]

As soon as Brady's hair reaches his shoulders.

[SHAFT]

Look at the lakers! Lakers in 7!

[RichardCranium]

You're on the bandwagon hate right now Keller. The league even reviewed the Wade one and said it was called correctly.

The league always protects it's superstars. The NBA is terrible at being fair to all players across the board. Tell what the difference is between this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMLnOTewYGg

and this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSlszw4WEgk


other than that Dwyane Wade and Blake Griffin are superstars and Jason Smith is a no name role-player. Smith was ejected and suspended for two games, and the talking heads had a field day with it.

[DoctorUnne]

Ugh, 18 point lead in the 3rd quarter and if the celtics hadn't choked it away probably would have been a 5 game series with some rest for the vets.

Still think we can win, but that sucked

[Latrinsorm]

Seriously, either this is a joke or someone hacked Latrin's account.

He's not this wildly inconsistent in his arguments.Granger's hand was still pulling LeBron's jersey as they drew level. Try it the next time you're in an elevator: stand even with a person and smack them in the butt. It is possible!

[RichardCranium]

Granger's hand was still pulling LeBron's jersey as they drew level. Try it the next time you're in an elevator: stand even with a person and smack them in the butt. It is possible!

Wait, I'm confused.

Isn't that standard elevator protocol?

[Keller]

Granger's hand was still pulling LeBron's jersey as they drew level. Try it the next time you're in an elevator: stand even with a person and smack them in the butt. It is possible!

As they drew level? You make it sound like a foot race and Granger was over-taking LeBron for the lead.

LeBron practically jump stops as he wildly swings his elbow upward (and not his forearm backward, which you'd expect to disengage Granger's hand from his jersey).

I'm a LeBron fan. I don't think he's a dirty player.

What I do think is he was frustrated. He was trying to bring his team back into the game and Granger grabbed his jersey on a breakaway. In fact, Granger has been pushing James's buttons all series. James lost his cool for a moment. Plenty of other great players have done it. Luckily James missed.

[Constal]

LAKERS NEEED a FIXSKILL! GO LA!

NO NO.. they didn't summon phil! haha

[Constal]

Oh wait... the HEAT HAVE TO WIN this series.. because if they DON"T.. then I'll never get to see the SIXERS HEAT MATCHUP that I have a whole 500k riding on... I think it should be an automatic win if the sixers make it further than the HEAT..

[Atlanteax]

Lakers are 'done'. Game 4 = deja vu on Game 2.

They're just not going to win 3 in a row.

[Latrinsorm]

As they drew level? You make it sound like a foot race and Granger was over-taking LeBron for the lead.

LeBron practically jump stops as he wildly swings his elbow upward (and not his forearm backward, which you'd expect to disengage Granger's hand from his jersey).

I'm a LeBron fan. I don't think he's a dirty player.

What I do think is he was frustrated. He was trying to bring his team back into the game and Granger grabbed his jersey on a breakaway. In fact, Granger has been pushing James's buttons all series. James lost his cool for a moment. Plenty of other great players have done it. Luckily James missed.LeBron does slow way down... because a 200 pound athlete is pulling on his jersey.

LeBron doesn't get frustrated. One of his flaws (or the opposite, depending on how you look at it) is he doesn't get that emotionally invested in basketball games. Again, look at what happens two seconds later: he's yukking it up with Paul George! David West is walking so casually he's not even in the frame yet! Look at this video (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2012/5/3/2997847/video-lebron-james-is-mad-frustrated) purporting to show LeBron "mad, frustrated", and compare that to anything Dwyane Wade has ever done (for instance). He's just a calm guy.

[Androidpk]

He wasn't calm when he tried to elbow that dude in the face, that was pure rage right there.

[Latrinsorm]

>_<

[Androidpk]

Also, dumb ass shit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkL8mSCO0b8

There's also the time he attacked those gatorade cups, some of which hit an elderly man and women.

[Latrinsorm]

Man, look at some of the highlights of that game...

-Ira Newble started for Cleveland at shooting guard. He didn't score in 12 minutes.
-Ira Newble and Larry Hughes (the starting backcourt) combining for 0 assists in 47 minutes.
-Drew Gooden (starting PF) scoring 0 points in 20 minutes.
-James passed Bingo Smith (9,513 points in 720 games) for fourth on the Cavs' career scoring list. My favorite Bingo Smith google result: boring horse (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q391-cX7fB4) with Doug Collins and Doug Collins' inexplicable bling.
-Raja Bell with 27 points on 13 shots, the second to last time he would ever score so many.

[DoctorUnne]

I tip my hat to LeBron and Wade this 3rd quarter. Absolutely breathtaking to watch. I feel like they could win 2 on 5 when they play like that

[Latrinsorm]

Wade becoming Wade again in the second half, Haslem becoming Haslem again in the fourth quarter, LeBron going killmode squared... but we only won by 8. On the road, but still. Then again, Danny Granger isn't going 4 of 9 from 3 every night, and Miller's whatever is making him walk like Fred Sanford might get better by Tuesday too.

How'd you all like that play where Wade literally fell down, recovered, and drilled a 3? Ludicrous.

[Keller]

LeBron doesn't get frustrated.

So you think he was being rational when he swung his elbow at Granger's face?

I think more of LeBron than to believe that, but if you do - I guess that's your prerogative.

[Drew]

If Haslem can hit his jumper the Heat can win, it's as simple as that. They need someone who can draw out the bigs from the middle (unless Roy Hibbert will do us a favour and continue fouling people like crazy). Haslem with a jump shot is 7/10s Chris Bosh which is all the Heat need to win. I'd like to see more James Jones instead of Mike Miller. Jones can't defend well but neither can Miller right now and Jones can get really hot from 3 at home.

[Latrinsorm]

So you think he was being rational when he swung his elbow at Granger's face?

I think more of LeBron than to believe that, but if you do - I guess that's your prerogative.I can do what I want to do.

Like have a basic understanding of human anatomy, or didn't they teach you that at LAWYER SCHOOL??? I mean, to be fair, it would be pretty weird if they did.

[Androidpk]

Like have a basic understanding of human anatomy, or didn't they teach you that at LAWYER SCHOOL??? I mean, to be fair, it would be pretty weird if they did.

Apparently you don't if you think Lebron was aiming his elbow at the dudes hand instead of his face. Don't be such a fanboy, boooooy!

[gs4-PauperSid]

Spurs Sweep #2. Woot woot.!

[Androidpk]

Big win by the Celtics though I am a little disappointed in their 3pt shots. Allen was only 1 for 5 and team total was a meager 3 for 15.

[DoctorUnne]

Then again, Danny Granger isn't going 4 of 9 from 3 every night

That doesn't seem too abnormal considering he's a 38% career 3PT shooter. I dunno I think it's going to take more transcendent performances from LeBron and Wade for the Heat to win this series if the Pacers keep playing as confidently as they are right now.

I feel like if you combined the two teams and ranked the ten best players the Pacers would probably have #3 through #10

[Latrinsorm]

It's a fun exercise. With Bosh out and Miller gimpy, I think I would go...

1. LeBron James
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Roy Hibbert
4. Mario Chalmers
5. Danny Granger
6. Paul George
7. David West
8. George Hill
9. Darren Collison
10. Ronny Turiaf

I hadn't looked at the big picture stats in awhile, it's crazy how far off Battier and Haslem fell off this year without completely submarining the Heat.

.

Glancing at the Gamecast... Kobe Bryant, 23 FGA, 0 assists. Yeah.

[Keller]

It's a fun exercise. With Bosh out and Miller gimpy, I think I would go...

1. LeBron James
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Roy Hibbert
4. Mario Chalmers
5. Danny Granger
6. Paul George
7. David West
8. George Hill
9. Darren Collison
10. Ronny Turiaf

I hadn't looked at the big picture stats in awhile, it's crazy how far off Battier and Haslem fell off this year without completely submarining the Heat.

.

Glancing at the Gamecast... Kobe Bryant, 23 FGA, 0 assists. Yeah.

http://www.the-mainboard.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/yaoface.png

[Keller]

In all honesty, 1-10 would be:

1. LBJ
2. DWade
3. David West
4. Hibbert
5. Paul George
6. Granger
7. Hill
8. Collison
9. Chalmers
10. Barbosa

[Keller]

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/KUPCHAK.gif

NBA - Where Amazing Happens

[Drew]

It's a fun exercise. With Bosh out and Miller gimpy, I think I would go...

1. LeBron James
2. Dwyane Wade
3. Roy Hibbert
4. Mario Chalmers
5. Danny Granger
6. Paul George
7. David West
8. George Hill
9. Darren Collison
10. Ronny Turiaf

I hadn't looked at the big picture stats in awhile, it's crazy how far off Battier and Haslem fell off this year without completely submarining the Heat.

.

Glancing at the Gamecast... Kobe Bryant, 23 FGA, 0 assists. Yeah.

Mario a little too high there buddy?

[Latrinsorm]

Barbosa has been awful on defense this series. I don't watch him a lot, but he's just been God awful. He takes too much off the table to rank above Turiaf, who is respectable all around. David West doesn't play defense either, having him above Hibbert is crazy. (But not as crazy as that story that when Hibbert got to college he couldn't do a push up.) Chalmers has shown a lot this series with Bosh out, you hating.

.

Kobe finishes with 33 FGAs, 0 assists. The only times in the last 25 years a guy has had 30+ FGAs with 0 assists were Karl Malone: once in 2000, once in 1992 (overtime game). The last time it even happened in the regular season was 2007: Kobe, Michael Redd, and Rashard Lewis (overtime) had one each.

In a larger sense, the Thunder just beat the Lakers in every category. They finished +47 over 5 games. In game 5 they out-shot, out-3ed (barely), out-rebounded (massively), out-assisted, out-ran, out-hustled, out-everythinged the Lakers. Keeping in mind last year's sweep and this year's very shaky round 1 performance...

...are the Lakers just done? The Thunder are for real. The Spurs have reloaded. Are the Magic going to trade away Howard after nuking their management, a la Deron Williams? The Lakers are massively over the cap, with $30m due Kobe and $19m due Pau... in 2014. They don't have either of their picks this year. They have the Bulls' second round pick, also known as the very last pick in the second round.

Are the Lakers just done?

[Latrinsorm]

You're both hating! Mario hits the 3, has cut way down on the goober plays, defends very well, reliable from the line, doesn't try to do too much. He's not almost as good as Hibbert, but he's better than the rest of those goofs.

[Keller]

You're both hating! Mario hits the 3, has cut way down on the goober plays, defends very well, reliable from the line, doesn't try to do too much. He's not almost as good as Hibbert, but he's better than the rest of those goofs.

Miami would be a better team with Hill or Collison. Just because Mario can play a role doesn't mean he's a better basketball player.

[Keller]

Barbosa has been awful on defense this series. I don't watch him a lot, but he's just been God awful. He takes too much off the table to rank above Turiaf, who is respectable all around. David West doesn't play defense either, having him above Hibbert is crazy. (But not as crazy as that story that when Hibbert got to college he couldn't do a push up.) Chalmers has shown a lot this series with Bosh out, you hating.

Indiana has plenty of defensive stoppers. Barbosa's role is to score buckets. That's what he does. Score buckets.

Not sure how Turiaf is respectable all-around. The only reason he's playing minutes is that Bosh is hurt. His offensive game is suspect at best. He's a Hansborough-caliber player.

David West plays great defense. He's just not a shot blocker and really never has been.

[Drew]

I'd really appreciate a victory tonight Heat.

[Atlanteax]

Lakers should keep Gasol but trade Byrum.

His attitude during the entire series was inexplicably passive (judging by his 'oh well' facial expression whenever he was on camera).

I do not see how he can be the 'future' if he does not have 'heart'.

Then in a few years, Lakers will have huge cap space (assuming no more Bryant and Gasol) and can build a great roster... essentially from scratch.

[Latrinsorm]

Miami would be a better team with Hill or Collison. Just because Mario can play a role doesn't mean he's a better basketball player.I'm not too psyched on Hill. The Spurs don't trade people because they're good, he doesn't have the skills of a point guard, and he's just not big enough to play shooting guard. Collison can't even get his job back from Hill, so there you go.

Also, lol @ "I don't need to play defense, that's someone else's job". Come on, man.

I could be underrating West's defense, but look who he's been matched up with. Battier? Haslem? He's looked bad, is all I'm saying, and I don't remember him being a heck of a lot better in his Hornets days.
Not sure how Turiaf is respectable all-around. The only reason he's playing minutes is that Bosh is hurt. His offensive game is suspect at best. He's a Hansborough-caliber player.He has great hands, can finish in the paint, moves well without the ball, doesn't turn it over a lot, great chemistry guy (even more important when Spoelstra never met a rotation he wouldn't randomly tinker with), better rebounder than Hansbrough, much better defender.
Lakers should keep Gasol but trade Byrum.

His attitude during the entire series was inexplicably passive (judging by his 'oh well' facial expression whenever he was on camera).

I do not see how he can be the 'future' if he does not have 'heart'.

Then in a few years, Lakers will have huge cap space (assuming no more Bryant and Gasol) and can build a great roster... essentially from scratch.It's obviously impossible and unthinkable, but what they should really do is get rid of Bryant. Are you ready for some astonishing facts?
-Kobe is 2 years older than Gasol on the calendar
-has played 5 more seasons
-has played over 13,000 more regular season minutes
-has played over 4,000 more playoff minutes
Not to mention that Kobe is making >$10m more than Gasol, making his departure worth dramatically more cap relief.

I also went through the 5 man lineups and sorted them by +/- per minute played. To illustrate, if you won a 48 minute game by 5 points, your team would be +.104 per minute of that game. The obvious flaw in this approach is that not all 5 man lineups play the same lineups on the other side, but we can mitigate this by moving only one player away from the current starting five, listed first below:
-Sessions Bryant WorldPeace Gasol Bynum: .141 over 164 minutes
-Switch Fisher for Sessions: .136 over 493 minutes
-Switch Blake for Sessions: -.145 over 69 minutes
-Switch Barnes for WorldPeace: .054 over 37 minutes
-Switch Barnes for Bryant: .282 over 39 minutes
-Switch Ebanks for Bryant: .301 over 116 minutes

The most interesting one is obviously the Ebanks lineup, as 116 minutes is a heck of a long time to be a fluke. As one would expect, the starting Lakers have a better defense without Kobe, who frequently takes plays off, jogs back, etc. at his age: .98 vs. 1.05. As one might not expect, they also have a better offense: 1.14 vs. 1.11.

Throw in our subjective feelings:
-Gasol and Bynum play really well together. Gasol is a gifted and willing passer for a big man, their combined size is just overwhelming against really everyone else in today's NBA.
-Gasol clearly ran over Kobe's dog or something, Kobe can't go a week without publicly criticizing him. I really can't believe how little flack he gets for such a dick move, but whatever.
-Bynum clearly hates playing with Kobe, even going so far as not too subtly campaigning for a change in scenery.
-Kobe is running on fumes. He's always been a volume scorer but it's gone to extremes now, which is to the detriment of the team.
-Mike Brown is clearly incapable of managing these relationships. I don't even think Phil Jackson could at this point, but Mike Brown has a 0% shot.

Again, it's clearly impossible, but the only reasonable thing to do is amnesty Kobe.

[Drew]

-Kobe is 2 years older than Gasol on the calendar
-has played 5 more seasons
-has played over 13,000 more regular season minutes
-has played over 4,000 more playoff minutes
Not to mention that Kobe is making >$10m more than Gasol, making his departure worth dramatically more cap relief.


Presumably Gasol was playing Spanish league ball before he came to the NBA? He might have a good amount of minutes there.

[Latrinsorm]

Presumably Gasol was playing Spanish league ball before he came to the NBA? He might have a good amount of minutes there.He played for the (inexplicably named) FC Barcelona Basquet. The records are a little sketchy, but it looks to be about college-level playing or under according to the wikipedia. 25 total minutes in 1999, 13.7 minutes per game 2000, 24.7 minutes per in 2001, and they play 34 "matches" (lol Spain) per year. They might have the same crazy postseasons that happen during the season as Euro soccer, no clue there.

[Atlanteax]

As one would expect, the starting Lakers have a better defense without Kobe, who frequently takes plays off, jogs back, etc. at his age: .98 vs. 1.05. As one might not expect, they also have a better offense: 1.14 vs. 1.11.

Throw in our subjective feelings:
-Gasol and Bynum play really well together. Gasol is a gifted and willing passer for a big man, their combined size is just overwhelming against really everyone else in today's NBA.
-Gasol clearly ran over Kobe's dog or something, Kobe can't go a week without publicly criticizing him. I really can't believe how little flack he gets for such a dick move, but whatever.
-Bynum clearly hates playing with Kobe, even going so far as not too subtly campaigning for a change in scenery.
-Kobe is running on fumes. He's always been a volume scorer but it's gone to extremes now, which is to the detriment of the team.
-Mike Brown is clearly incapable of managing these relationships. I don't even think Phil Jackson could at this point, but Mike Brown has a 0% shot.

Again, it's clearly impossible, but the only reasonable thing to do is amnesty Kobe.

Okay, I was just about to indicate that there has been some ESPN analyst tossing out the prospect, however unlikely, that it could be a strategic move for the Lakers to amnesty Kobe.

It could be interesting if the Lakers do amnesty Kobe and then signs Deron Williams (got the $$ with amnestied Kobe) and Steve Nash? (assuming Sessions declines his player potion)

[Keller]

Not sure how you move Kobe's contract.

I would LOVE the reaction of my friends from LA if they amnestied Kobe. Would make the Rodney King decision look like a minor protest.

[Atlanteax]

Not sure how you move Kobe's contract.

I would LOVE the reaction of my friends from LA if they amnestied Kobe. Would make the Rodney King decision look like a minor protest.

You do no move the contract, you effectively place him on waivers via the anmesty ... IIRC. Just cannot re-sign him even if he clears.

[SHAFT]

Kobe will be going no where. I wanted, I really wanted Bynum to be better than Dwight Howard, but he just doesn't have it between the ears.

Metta's press conference earlier was hilarious. He repeated they should be up 3-2 about 20 times, used to word tempo about 40 times, and called Mike Brown a fat ass. All in good fun though.

[Keller]

You do no move the contract, you effectively place him on waivers via the anmesty ... IIRC. Just cannot re-sign him even if he clears.

Sentence one was me saying the Lakers can't trade Kobe.

The rest was about amnestying him.

[Keller]

I wonder, if the Pacers make it to the eastern (or NBA) finals, whether Deron would consider signing and making the Pacers the presumed champions in 2013.

Latrin - work the numbers.

[Latrinsorm]

Well, they have plenty of cap room. Right now they're at $36m for next year, giving them about $20m, which is enough to give Williams a max offer but it leaves you mathematically open to having Hibbert swiped. Roy Hibbert and George Hill are RFAs, I would think they lowball Hill and let him go if they're gunning for Williams.

Like you said, a lot depends on how far they get. If the Bosh-less Heat win the next two games, I don't see a lot to push Williams there.

To be honest, I would rather have Nash if I was the Pacers anyway. They have plenty of guys who can score, what they desperately need is someone who wants to pass (28th in AST%). Even though Nash is oooolllld, West and Granger aren't getting any younger, you never know how long a big man's going to be around, and it's not like Deron Williams is an iron man, either, I say swing for the fences. Plus you know Nash will happily accept less than max, and Williams seems like the kind of guy who would rather have a max contract than a good team.

Again though, if Miami beats the Pacers in 6 or even 7, why would Nash go to Indiana instead of Miami? You could see the Pacers as Heat Lite: Granger as James Lite (maybe James 0 Calorie), George as Wade Lite (...sort of), West as Bosh Lite. Even the coaches are eerily similar, young guys who fairly or unfairly look a little befuddled at times. Cole might be the distant future, but Miami could still use a right now point guard and could desperately use the 3P shooting.
Kobe will be going no where.Isn't it just delicious to hypothesize, though? I mean, suppose they do amnesty him, and fast forward past LA burning to the ground. Someone will want him, right? Does he retire? Does he report, and limp around gunning for the Brooklyn Nets for a couple years? Does he pull a PJ Brown and retire only to come back for a contender? Is that even allowed under the amnesty rules?

And... what if the Lakers succeed without him? Do we recalibrate our historical assessment of him? It would be so interesting.

[SHAFT]

Latrin, I have a better shot at getting to 3rd base with Kate Upton than the Lakers have of doing anything but allowing Kobe Bryant to retire when he wants to.

[Drew]

Heat look focused at the start. Lebron just had a monster jam to force the Pacers timeout.

[SHAFT]

I always thought he said doodle jump. What's it mean?

Man the heat look good

[Atlanteax]

Heat should definitely reach the NBA finals against the Spurs the way Lebron and Wade are playing together.

It almost gives merit to playing with your 'friend'.

[Drew]

I always thought he said doodle jump. What's it mean?

Man the heat look good

it is doodle jump but I didn't know that till I looked it up. He sounds like he's saying doo doo to me.

[Drew]

Welcome back to reality Pacers.

[Androidpk]

Talk about piss poor shooting by Indiana.

[Latrinsorm]

Pittman has a lot of potential... but man he does some dumb stuff sometimes. Nobody cares about Lance Stephenson. The Angel of Stern already has this game in his sights after Hansbrough-Haslem. You didn't even make it look good! It was a friggin' WWE move.
Latrin, I have a better shot at getting to 3rd base with Kate Upton than the Lakers have of doing anything but allowing Kobe Bryant to retire when he wants to.Remember when they were looking for Jackson's replacement and we heard all those stories about how the owners wanted a Showtime style? (And then they inexplicably hired grind-it-out Mike Brown, but that's not the point.) Kobe is clearly not conducive to that style. You never know.

Remember when they tossed an established but aging superstar in favor of a young but mercurial supertalent that clearly weren't getting along? They reached the Finals instead of a weak 2nd round showing that year, and Shaq was only in his 11th season with 30k minutes instead of 16th with 42k. Look at who they got back in the trade: Caron Butler, Brian Grant, Lamar Odom, a 1st and a 2nd round draft pick. Would you turn down two starters and two draft picks for Kobe if you're the GM? You never know!

[Latrinsorm]

Oh yeah, and how you like my boy Chalmers now? 11 rebounds in 32 minutes, baby.

[Keller]

Welcome back to reality Pacers.

Was game 3 "reality" for the Heat?

Let's get real.

[AnticorRifling]

Keller clearly you are a fan boy and Drew is a realist. When the heat lose it's a fluke of nature and or foul and or unfair. When the heat win it's reality.

Please update your definitions.

[Keller]

Pittman has a lot of potential... but man he does some dumb stuff sometimes.

He was actually trying to kill a fly on Lance's calf.

If you knew anything about anatomy, you'd understand.

[Latrinsorm]

You didn't even try the elevator thing, did you. <- note lack of question mark.

Bryant for Iguodala, Young, and draft picks! 76ers get their Deputy Chief Brenda Lee Johnson, Lakers get athleticism and picks to put around Bynum (AI's only 28, Young is 23!), Kobe gets to hear MJ stories from Doug Collins.

Bryant for Deng, Hamilton, and Brewer! Bulls get a real scoring option (and get rid of Hamilton), Lakers get 3PT shooting and athleticism on the wing (Deng and Brewer are only 26), Kobe can demand MJ's old locker.

The salaries work! It would be so cool, come on Kupchak!

[Drew]

Was game 3 "reality" for the Heat?

Let's get real.

No it was the first game missing one of their best players and immediately after Wade had fluid drained from his knee. I thought you followed basketball?

[AnticorRifling]

So injuries and a bench aren't part of your sports reality?

[Drew]

One game isn't the reality of a series, but if you want to hang your hat on it be my guest.

[AnticorRifling]

Oh how quick you are to belittle a beating when it's not your team.

Oh that trouncing...well that's not reality.

[Androidpk]

Oh how quick you are to belittle a beating when it's not your team.

Oh that trouncing...well that's not reality.

Absolutely, it was just an erratic fluctuation in the space time continuum.

[Keller]

No it was the first game missing one of their best players and immediately after Wade had fluid drained from his knee. I thought you followed basketball?

Do you think it's a fluke that Miami ran away in the second half when Granger was out?

I thought you followed basketball!

[Drew]

Do you think it's a fluke that Miami ran away in the second half when Granger was out?

I thought you followed basketball!

No, I thought they continued beating them in the manner that they had already been all game. Did you watch the game?

[Latrinsorm]

Do you think it's a fluke that Miami ran away in the second half when Granger was out?

I thought you followed basketball!I was worried people (mainly Bill Simmons) were going to start harping on this. The Pacers were playing terribly in the first half, and they continued playing terribly in the second half. Granger's injury was irrelevant. All you saw was regression to the mean. It's an ordinary human reaction to search for causation, to insist upon a reason, but sometimes it's really nothing more than random fluctuation. Corks bobbing on ocean swells.

[Keller]

No, I thought they continued beating them in the manner that they had already been all game. Did you watch the game?

Indiana was down 3 when Granger went out.

Miami won by 32.

This is not rocket science.

[Keller]

I was worried people (mainly Bill Simmons) were going to start harping on this. The Pacers were playing terribly in the first half, and they continued playing terribly in the second half. Granger's injury was irrelevant. All you saw was regression to the mean. It's an ordinary human reaction to search for causation, to insist upon a reason, but sometimes it's really nothing more than random fluctuation. Corks bobbing on ocean swells.

Bosh's injury - led to game 3 blow out.

Granger's injury - irrelevant.

This, combined with your "enlightening" lesson in human anatomy, has made me wish you could put this kind of effort into ClydeR again.

[Latrinsorm]

I never said Bosh's injury led to game 3's blowout. I implied it made me regret my series prediction, when I dismissed the Pacers. If you ax me, the biggest catalyst for that blowout was Dwyane Wade. I would say Bosh's injury swung game 2, and if the Heat win game 6 by 3 points I'll say the same thing for Granger's if he doesn't play.

If Granger was so important, why did the Pacers score (barely) more points in the 2nd half? Surely you're not going to suggest he was defending LeBron well, LeBron had 16 points 3 assists first half, 14 points 5 assists second half, barely distinguishable results. The Heat are a better team, especially at home, and last night they played like it.

[SHAFT]

The Orlando Magic are talking about making Shaq the GM. No lie

[Androidpk]

The Orlando Magic are talking about making Shaq the GM. No lie

That's Dr. Shaq.

[Drew]

Indiana was down 3 when Granger went out.


So when Indy was down in 11 in the first and Danny Granger was in the game... that didn't matter?

[SHAFT]

So when Indy was down in 11 in the first and Danny Granger was in the game... that didn't matter?

The Pacers had no chance of beating the Heat in that game. They have no chance of winning game 6. It's over. Sorry Keller.

[DoctorUnne]

I think it's pretty simple. If both LeBron and Wade are playing at the top of their game, Miami is much better than Indiana. With Bosh, Miami is much better than Indiana. If either LeBron or Wade has an off night, Indiana can easily win. I think Miami closes it out in Indiana. LeBron's on a mission.

[Latrinsorm]

I saw someone suggest to Hoopidea today that NBA games just be played to 100. This PHI-BOS game would never end.

Let's all join in in mocking whoever votes for the NBA All-Defense teams!
-Tyson Chandler, the Defensive Player of the Year, on the second team... right.
-Kobe Bryant a better defender than Dwyane Wade... right.
-Carlos Boozer received a vote, Taj Gibson did not... right.
What is wrong with these people?

Perhaps surprisingly, this is not the first time the DPOY hasn't made first team All-Defense.
1995 Mutombo 2nd team to Robinson, who finished 4th in DPOY voting
1986 Alvin Robertson 2nd team to Sidney Moncrief who finished 3rd and Mo Cheeks who didn't receive a single DPOY vote

[Ardwen]

DPoY and defensive teams are selected by different people are they not? So why is this surprising?

[Keller]

So when Indy was down in 11 in the first and Danny Granger was in the game... that didn't matter?

If we're giving significance to mid-game leads, the Pacers were firmly in control of game 4. What does that count for?

[Drew]

If we're giving significance to mid-game leads, the Pacers were firmly in control of game 4. What does that count for?

You're the one doing that. The reality is you're losing, you can delude yourself with various mid 2nd quarter scores if it makes you feel better.

[Keller]

You're the one doing that. The reality is you're losing, you can delude yourself with various mid 2nd quarter scores if it makes you feel better.

The whole reason we're having this conversation is that you called a blowout loss after losing our team leader to injury "reality," only to say a similar loss by the Heat was merely the result of losing your third best player (maybe fourth, if you believe Latrin's opinion of Mario Chalmers).

I'm not sure how you think you have room to call me deluded when that is your view of the series.

[Drew]

The reality I was referring to was the one where the Heat are better than the Pacers, after we won two games in a row. I seem to recall them winning in Indianapolis as well when you had all your players the whole game and we didn't.

[Keller]

The reality I was referring to was the one where the Heat are better than the Pacers, after we won two games in a row. I seem to recall them winning in Indianapolis as well when you had all your players the whole game and we didn't.

I don't think anyone has said that was wrong, but I also don't think that's what your position was (although you may want to say it was with hindsight).

What I disagree with was your statement that the Pacers blowout loss was a result of Miami being better, but the Pacers blowout win was a result of Miami not having Bosh. That was an asinine series of comments on your part.

[AnticorRifling]

Also....reality.

[Atlanteax]

I don't think anyone has said that was wrong, but I also don't think that's what your position was (although you may want to say it was with hindsight).

What I disagree with was your statement that the Pacers blowout loss was a result of Miami being better, but the Pacers blowout win was a result of Miami not having Bosh. That was an asinine series of comments on your part.

Looks like Keller is ready to be a lawyer, he has demonstrated a grasp for obfuscation.

[Drew]

I don't think anyone has said that was wrong, but I also don't think that's what your position was (although you may want to say it was with hindsight).

If you look back on this thread when it was 1-2 I posted I wasn't worried.

[Keller]

If you look back on this thread when it was 1-2 I posted I wasn't worried.

If you look back on this thread you will also find that you posted that a Heat blowout is "reality" and a Pacers blowout is "because Bosh was out."

I'm fine if you want to retract that bit of idiocy and just stick with "the Heat are the better team."

[Drew]

Everything I said was factually accurate.

[DoctorUnne]

What I disagree with was your statement that the Pacers blowout loss was a result of Miami being better, but the Pacers blowout win was a result of Miami not having Bosh. That was an asinine series of comments on your part.

Asinine if you're a Pacers fan. True in my opinion. Why can't both be true? Bosh means a lot more to Miami than Granger means to the Pacers, who run much deeper.

[Keller]

Everything I said was factually accurate.

Everything you said was a (rediculous) opinion.

[Keller]

I think there is one thing we can all agree on: the officiating has been terrible tonight.

[Drew]

Weird how Granger was healthy that whole game and the Pacers got destroyed again. Reality.

[Keller]

Reality - where Wade turns into super Jordan.

Get the fuck out of here. Without Wade being superhuman, the Heat lose by double digits.

That is just factually accurate.

[Atlanteax]

Heh @ Keller's meltdown

[SHAFT]

Reality - where Wade turns into super Jordan.

Get the fuck out of here. Without Wade being superhuman, the Heat lose by double digits.

That is just factually accurate.

You owe me 2m bitch!

[Latrinsorm]

Honestly I thought this was the first game in a long time where the officiating was consistent throughout. Miami wasn't getting every call: watch the highlight clip again where they showed 5 of Wade's 39ish floaters in the lane, he gets smacked by Hibbert every time with no call. My favorite was the Hibbert foul on James where the crowd screamed, then they showed the reply and he clearly hits LeBron with both arms. Just stop, Indiana fans. Not every call that goes against you is a bad call. Try to maintain some credibility.

Two indicative plays: Psycho-T lunging like a goofball at LeBron's bad pass only to tip it directly to James Jones who calmly sinks a 2 (and is promptly benched for about an hour and a half), Mario Chalmers wandering into the paint for an offensive rebound and putback 2. No wonder West hurt his knee on a Battier box out, Indiana has apparently never heard of the concept.

Here's a crazy stat: the Pacers were +13 in the 40 minutes Hibbert was on the floor, which means they were -25(!!!) in the 8 minutes he was sitting.

Spoelstra should get a lot of credit for this win. After lots of frequently needless practice, he's become quite good at adjusting his rotation on the fly. Admittedly it's easier when you can say "ok LeBron you just play pretty much every minute and be the best player on the floor", but still. Seamlessly replacing Haslem's minutes is no mean feat.

What ended up killing Indiana, again, was terrible passing. Being unable to get it in the post, repeatedly throwing the ball away and out of bounds, etc. George Hill is not a point guard. Collison doesn't look that impressive, although playing with the bench against Miami is a tough row to hoe. This also puts Paul George and Danny Granger in a tough spot, because they're also not very good passers, and you get bad possessions for no real reason. With their cap room, they have to 1) keep Hibbert and 2) go after a real PG. Steve Nash is the dream obviously, but even a Ray Felton or Jeremy Lin would make them a lot stronger.

[Drew]

I think the breaking point for the Pacers had to be the end of the first half. They had shot 60%, out rebounded the Heat by twice as much and were up by 2. It's pretty much impossible to play better than that in a half and also impossible to duplicate in the next half.


Dan Lebatard had a really interesting interview with Micky Arison the owner of the Heat today. It was pretty entertaining and revealing, if you want to listen to it go here http://www.790theticket.com/lebatard.aspx and scroll down to the audio replay and click Micky Arison.

[Androidpk]

Booyah! I can't wait until monday! :spaz:

[Latrinsorm]

I'm a little worried Wade's going to score 60 points a game and be tired out by the time the Finals roll around, but the WCF is going at least 6, so there'll be some extra rest.

Seriously though, how are the Celtics going to win a single game?

[Androidpk]

Because they're old and play dirty.

[RSR]

I'm a little worried Wade's going to score 60 points a game and be tired out by the time the Finals roll around, but the WCF is going at least 6, so there'll be some extra rest.

Seriously though, how are the Celtics going to win a single game?

Over the last two years, the Heat is 2-6 against the Celtics. Celtics were 3-1 vs the Heat this year. Seriously, how are the Heat going to win against the Celtics?

-Richard.

[Latrinsorm]

They beat the Celtics in 5 last year...
-starting Mike Bibby and Zydrunas Ilgauskas
-when Ray Allen was healthy (who's guarding Wade, Sasha Pavlovic?)
-when Haslem was out

Wade and James aged a year into their prime, the Celtics aged a year out of theirs. The only thing the Celtics have going for them is no Bosh.

[Latrinsorm]

espn.com expert picks are in for the CFs, thought I would recap their picks so far:

Eastern Conference
76ers at Bulls - 13 of 13 Bulls, avg. 5.2 games - actual 76ers in 6
Knicks at Heat - 12 of 12 Heat, avg. 5.7 games - actual Heat in 5
Magic at Pacers - 12 of 12 Pacers, avg. 4.8 games - actual Pacers in 5
Celtics at Hawks - 11 of 12 Celtics, avg. 6.2 games, 1 Hawks in 7 - actual Celtics in 6

Pacers at Heat - 16 of 16 Heat, avg. 5.6 games - actual Heat in 6
76ers at Celtics - 12 of 12 Celtics, avg 5.9 games - actual Celtics in 7

Celtics at Heat - 14 of 14 Heat, avg. 5.8 games

Western Conference
Jazz at Spurs - 12 of 12 Spurs, avg. 5.2 games - actual Spurs in 4
Mavericks at Thunder - 13 of 13 Thunder, avg. 5.8 games - actual Thunder in 4
Nuggets at Lakers - 14 of 14 Lakers, avg. 6.0 games - actual Lakers in 7
Clippers at Grizzlies - 10 of 14 Grizzlies, avg. 6.8 games, 4 Clippers avg. 6.5 - actual Clippers in 7

Clippers at Spurs - 14 of 14 Spurs, avg. 5.6 games - actual Spurs in 4
Lakers at Thunder - 13 of 14 Thunder, avg. 6.2 games, 1 Lakers in 6 - actual Thunder in 5

Thunder at Spurs - 8 of 12 Spurs, avg. 6.4, 4 Thunder avg. 6.3

So far the predictions have been pretty close:
76ers underrated (even taking Rose injury into account)
Spurs underrated(!)
Thunder underrated or Lakers overrated

.

The other websites have had a few big misses, including a Lakers over Pacers Finals prediction (rofl again Ian Thomsen), but 10 of the 12 Champion predictions are still alive.

Just like every other year, the team with the best record in close games (Lakers' 20-8) was home early. This makes the 7th year out of the last 8 that said team didn't make it out of the second round, yet next year you will hear people talking about a team's record in close games as if it had anything to do with anything.

[Androidpk]

/facepalm

[Latrinsorm]

Yes, the officiating was strange, but the Celtics ended up with 21 FTA to Miami's 23, so it didn't have that much of an impact.

11 blocks to 1, yikes!

Bass and Pierce combined for 4 rebounds in 74 minutes. That's just atrocious.

For whatever reason people like to think that the Heat are a poor half-court team, but as we saw tonight it's just not the case. They have poor stretches (like the last 3 minutes where the Heat were openly bored with the game), but overall they move without the ball, screen well, find the open man. Boston is a good defensive team and they were just cut to pieces tonight.

My favorite play was either LeBron's walking fast break off one of the turnovers, Miller's playground drive, or Wade playing 15 feet off of Rondo and wandering around with complete impunity. It seems pretty obvious now, why didn't they always do that?

[SHAFT]

Fuck Boston

[Latrinsorm]

So after Bill Simmons' whingefest, I thought I would look into the numbers a little.

-The Celtics were slightly above average in PFs, at 14.8 per 36 minutes. In a 53 minute game, this prorates to 21.9. Their most fouls in a game this season was 31 against Detroit. It is unlikely that there is a secret conspiracy to give calls to Rodney Stuckey.
-The Celtics were below average in drawing PFs, prorating to 20.2 per 53 minutes. Their least fouls drawn in a game was 8 against San Antonio.

-In terms of FTA/FGA, which is probably more accurate as it neutralizes pace, on offense the Heat were 4th in the league and the Celtics were 17th. On defense the Heat were 12th and the Celtics were 19th.

What we have then:
1. one team that's very good at drawing fouls and okay at defending without fouling.
2. one team that's mediocre at drawing fouls and poor at defending without fouling.

Do these results make sense? Well, yes. The Celtics are a jump shooting team. They're very very good at it: Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett are among the best ever in jump shooting at their position, Paul Pierce is no slouch... but they're still a jump shooting team. The Heat, especially LeBron and Wade, have made a concerted effort to avoid jump shooting in favor of close range shots, which even (or perhaps especially) smart defensive teams are going to foul on more often.

.

Looking at last night in particular, here are the paint attempts for each Celtic...
Rondo - 10
Garnett - 6
Bass - 4
Pierce - 2
Allen - 2
Dooling - 1
Stiemsma - 1

And here are the FTAs:
Rondo - 12
Garnett - 6
Pierce - 6
Bass - 4
Allen - 1

Total: 26 in the paint, 29 at the line.

Pierce is the only outlier, and he's an outlier on the positive side. Again, this is to be expected... he's Paul Pierce, possibly his best NBA skill is drawing fouls.

Now let's look at the Heat, paint attempts first:
James - 10
Wade - 9
Chalmers - 8
Haslem - 6
Battier - 1
Turiaf - 1
Miller - 1
Anthony - 1

And FTAs:
James - 24
Wade - 11
Chalmers - 7
Haslem - 3
Anthony - 2

Total: 37 in the paint, 47 at the line.

Get in the paint, and good things happen. As Hubie always tells us, this is such a simple game. Don't spend the night chucking 17 footers and then complain you didn't get any foul calls.

[Drew]

Where was Simmons whining? I don't see a new article or podcast.


EDIT: I'm assuming twitter?

[Latrinsorm]

Twitter, although I'm sure it'll be in his next article(s) too. Highlights:

-You can't win 5 against 8. This game is one of the all-time jokes. I am so disgusted by this game and the league as a whole.
-In playoffs: LBJ ranks 2nd in MPG (41.1), 1st in FTA (10.8), 15th in RPG (9.2), 4th in steals (2.2) ... and 104th in fouls per game (1.8). Even MJ never averaged less than 2 fouls per game in the playoffs. Here, look.
-Last night's officiating travesty wasn't just about the 2 missed calls in OT. LBJ/Battier/Wade were reffed differently than Pierce. Period.
-Last night's shot chart negates any "Miami takes it to the hoop more" argument. http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=320530014 Oh and Miami took 11 more 3's.

The fourth one is obviously wrong, as I already demonstrated. The 2nd one is one of the things I dislike about Simmons. Jordan averaged 2.6 fouls in the regular season, 3.0 in the playoffs. LeBron averages 1.9 in the regular season, 2.4 in the playoffs. LeBron actually sees a larger % and absolute increase in fouls in the playoffs, but his performance this year doesn't reach an arbitrary threshold so it's a conspiracy. Danny Granger is a notorious chucker, it's very easy to guard him without fouling because he so rarely drives, and that brings the average down. It's not rocket surgery.

[Latrinsorm]

from rep: Sports aren't all about just stats ~pk

No duh. If the evidence for your claim (Boston had more PFs, Miami shot more FTs) is consistent with multiple explanations, however, we shouldn't disregard one explanation just because it is based on stats.

[Keller]

I trust Latrin, because he knows about anatomy.

[Androidpk]

I trust Latrin, because he knows about anatomy.

Even though your hands are around my throat I'm going to tell you to quit pulling my leg.