Democratic Strategist Hilary Rosen making sense

[Drylec]

Here is a twofer for everyone. Hilary Rosen quite possibly the most intelligent woman on the planet put Mitt Romney and the GOP in their place. Here is the proof.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/11/hilary-rosen-ann-romney_n_1419506.html

You have to watch the video for the first point I want to make. She states truthfully that no Democrat has ever used the phrase "war on women" this is a talking point the Republicants have made up and attributed to Democrats. The man in this video (sorry his name is not important) lied and said Nancy Pelosi for example used the phrase "war on women." I am saving you all the trouble of googling for his lie and am providing a link for what this man was probably referring to.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0411/52793.html

"“There is actually a war on women,” the California Democrat said Thursday in Washington, taking aim at House Republicans’ efforts to defund Planned Parenthood and restrict access to abortions, among other measures."

She did not say "war on women" she said "There is actually a war on women." If this man cannot keep his lies to himself then perhaps he should stay out of the kitchen.

Speaking of kitchens this brings me to my second point. Rosen (for those not familiar with this name it is NOT pronounced Rose N) noted and I quote "Guess what? His (Romney's) wife has actually never worked a day in her life. She's never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing."

Ann Romney tweeted to her in response "I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work."

Being a stay at home parent and raising kids is not hard work as Rosen has pointed out.

Hilary Rosen in one interview dispelled the myth of the Democratic "war on women" and exposed Ann Romney for the liar she is for claiming it's hard work raising kids.

[~Rocktar~]

Your village called, they said to say away.

[Drew]

I don't know what this is about but I remember when she was the chief of the RIAA and how well that went over so I'm sure it's just as good an idea.

[ClydeR]

While reading up on the Rosengate scandal, I stumbled across the Twitter account (http://twitter.com/catholicleague) of the Catholic League, the Catholic anti-defamation organization lead by Bill Donohue, who many people think might become the first Pope from America.

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/rmi08a/CatholicLeaguecatholicleagueonTwitter.png (http://twitter.com/catholicleague)

[4a6c1]

Texas is definately in a war against women and in a war against the poor. Conservatives have made it so that medicare recipients (read: POOR WOMEN WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE CHILDREN) will no longer be able to recieve services from Planned Parenthood AND its affiliates who do not even provide abortions. Yes you read that correctly. It would be funny if it wasn't true.

At the same time they have also recently passed the voter registration act requiring voters to have picture IDs. These kinds of legislation have historically been used to curb a racial minority vote. I believe that it is being used to discourage the rising black and hispanic MAJORITY from electing their own officials.

Concurrent to this issue is the recent redistricting debaucle in Texas which was 100% responsible for Texas primaries being delayed. Republicans basically tried to chop up black and hispanic areas to equalize the racial vote, the map looked ridiculous, like polka dots.

Something telling about the statistics. Texas has one of the highests records of teen births, the most churches, the greatest number of children in the nation without health insurance, the largest record for domestic violence. Etc.

There's more. Maybe I should start a thread. Texas is a terrible place to be right now if you are not in the 1%.

[Jack]

Texas is definately in a war against women and in a war against the poor. Conservatives have made it so that medicare recipients (read: POOR WOMEN WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE CHILDREN) will no longer be able to recieve services from Planned Parenthood AND its affiliates who do not even provide abortions. Yes you read that correctly. It would be funny if it wasn't true.

At the same time they have also recently passed the voter registration act requiring voters to have picture IDs. These kinds of legislation have historically been used to curb a racial minority vote. I believe that it is being used to discourage the rising black and hispanic MAJORITY from electing their own officials.

Concurrent to this issue is the recent redistricting debaucle in Texas which was 100% responsible for Texas primaries being delayed. Republicans basically tried to chop up black and hispanic areas to equalize the racial vote, the map looked ridiculous, like polka dots.

Something telling about the statistics. Texas has one of the highests records of teen births, the most churches, the greatest number of children in the nation without health insurance, the largest record for domestic violence. Etc.

There's more. Maybe I should start a thread. Texas is a terrible place to be right now if you are not in the 1%.

You should start a thread. It will be fun for everyone!

[4a6c1]

Heh. You do it. But use the actual statistics that are correct that say more of our teenagers are pregnant, our kids uninsured and getting the worst education in the nation but hey BUSINESS IS GREAT!!!

[Atlanteax]

Looks like Rojo does not want to start a new thread as it is not significant enough of an issue to warrant her doing so.

[Warriorbird]

Looks like Rojo does not want to start a new thread as it is not significant enough of an issue to warrant her doing so.

You could quote a few more supremacists to talk about how awful Martin's family is in a new thread. Or talk about how much you liked that sign by Detroit.

[TheEschaton]

Rojo, there was a whole thread on the WoW forums about a new NPC who called female toons "gorgeous" and male toons "strong." You should probably start a thread about that.

...oh wait, a bunch of women already did, and got the NPC's dialogue changed. LOLWUT. WAR ON WOMEN DEFEATED.

(This obviously has no relation to the real war on women that occurs in reality-based environments, like Texas.)

[4a6c1]

Looks like Rojo does not want to start a new thread as it is not significant enough of an issue to warrant her doing so.

No time. I'll just use this one. Here's a copy and paste from democratic underground to get you going. ;)

2003 Texas Rankings
Office of the Texas Comptroller

2nd Teen Birth Rate
1st Toxic and Cancerous Manufacturing Emissions
1st Percentage of Uninsured Children
1st Number of Executions
1st Number of Gun Shows
2nd Rate of Incarceration
5th Total Crime Rate
1st Number of Registered Machine Guns
7th Poverty Rate
2nd Percentage of Population that Goes Hungry
3rd Percentage of Population that Is Malnourished

45th Per Capita Spending on Public Health
46th Mental Health
49th Water Quality
50th High School Graduation Rates
46th Average Hourly Rate
43rd Income Distribution Inequality
48th Spending on Child Protection
50th Percentage of Population with Health Insurance
50th Percentage of Insured Low-Income Children
45th Rate for Substance Abuse Treatment Is Received
47th Amount of Welfare and Food Stamp Benefits
49th Number of WIC Recipients

(Source: NASW/Texas Network, December 2005/January 2006 p. 15)


The Script: Rick Perry's 30-second television advertisement entitled "Proud of Texas"

"I've never been more proud to call myself a Texan.

In Texas we set the national standard for economic development. We've gained 300,000 new jobs, and lawsuit reform is bringing better healthcare to millions. We've invested 10 billion new dollars in our public schools, while improving standards, accountability and student performance.

Our people are compassionate, our visions bold, our values strong. The best is yet to come. I'm proud of Texas, How about you?"

[Atlanteax]

That looks more like it is due to Texas's status as a borderland zone between Mexico and the United States ... versus being State of Texas's government policies.

[TheEschaton]

Oh man, I was gonna post an /inb4 "It's them dirty Mexicans" post, but I thought, man, no one could be that stupid.

[Warriorbird]

That looks more like it is due to Texas's status as a borderland zone between Mexico and the United States ... versus being State of Texas's government policies.

So you're saying all Texas's problems have to do with Mexico? Got it.

I think you should take this to Stormfront. Trying to bring that Michigan Militia back.

[Atlanteax]

You could quote a few more supremacists to talk about how awful Martin's family is in a new thread. Or talk about how much you liked that sign by Detroit.

Heh, someone is thickheaded.

I'll admit I found that sign amusing.

However, I'm no 'supremacist' ... you must be seriously butt-hurt over something about Michigan ... was it your ex-wife who dumped you being from Michigan?

[Atlanteax]

So you're saying all Texas's problems have to do with Mexico? Got it.

You do not think the Mexican drug trade & the cartel-generated violence is a contributing factor?

[Warriorbird]

Heh, someone is thickheaded.

I'll admit I found that sign amusing.

However, I'm no 'supremacist' ... you must be seriously butt-hurt over something about Michigan ... was it your ex-wife who dumped you being from Michigan?

You found a sign with a racial slur on it amusing. Got it. You merely quoted a supremacist, like I said. Laughing at people baiting black people and the family of a dead kid with racial slurs clearly doesn't make you a supremacist.

I've got nothing against Michigan. Fair amount of my family is from there. I'll mock racism and your entitled ass presuming to speak for the poor people of America any day of the week.

I'm merely suggesting you'd find a nice home for yourself here:

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/

[Parkbandit]

At the same time they have also recently passed the voter registration act requiring voters to have picture IDs. These kinds of legislation have historically been used to curb a racial minority vote. I believe that it is being used to discourage the rising black and hispanic MAJORITY from electing their own officials.

Could you point to the studies that show Voter ID laws are "used to curb a racial minority vote"?

Places I had to show my picture ID in the past 2 weeks:

CVS
Walgreens
St. Johns Hospital
McGee's Roadside Assistance
Blockbuster Video
Tampa Courthouse
World of Beer

If you don't have a photo ID, how are you able to get prescription drugs, go to the hospital, rent a video, go to court, drink alcohol, get on a plane, etc? You can't even go into any Federal Government building to complain about Voter ID laws without showing your photo ID.



Concurrent to this issue is the recent redistricting debaucle in Texas which was 100% responsible for Texas primaries being delayed. Republicans basically tried to chop up black and hispanic areas to equalize the racial vote, the map looked ridiculous, like polka dots.

I agree.. but to blame just Republicans for redistricting is pretty ignorant. Both parties do it. Personally, I hate they way they do it... and they do it so they can remain in power for as long as possible.



There's more. Maybe I should start a thread. Texas is a terrible place to be right now if you are not in the 1%.

Move to California? New York? Cuba?

I didn't like New York.. so I moved. No one is forcing anyone in stay in a specific state or country.

:shrug:

[Methais]

"Guess what? His (Romney's) wife has actually never worked a day in her life. She's never really dealt with the kinds of economic issues that a majority of the women in this country are facing."

Ann Romney tweeted to her in response "I made a choice to stay home and raise five boys. Believe me, it was hard work."

Obama hasn't worked a day in his life either, nor has most anyone in his administration. That didn't stop them.


Being a stay at home parent and raising kids is not hard work as Rosen has pointed out.

I'm sure this will piss off moms all over the place. Especially the ones that have destructive bratty asshole kids that they're afraid to beat, so they just get worse.


Rojo, there was a whole thread on the WoW forums about a new NPC who called female toons "gorgeous" and male toons "strong." You should probably start a thread about that.

...oh wait, a bunch of women already did, and got the NPC's dialogue changed. LOLWUT. WAR ON WOMEN DEFEATED.

(This obviously has no relation to the real war on women that occurs in reality-based environments, like Texas.)

I have no doubt that it was fat ugly women who started that thread. And probably a few homos.

[Methais]

At the same time they have also recently passed the voter registration act requiring voters to have picture IDs. These kinds of legislation have historically been used to curb a racial minority vote. I believe that it is being used to discourage the rising black and hispanic MAJORITY from electing their own officials.

I think it's more because of things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5p70YbRiPw

[Methais]

I love outright lies from conservative posters.

Sorry, I forgot golfing is hard work.

Also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7axvQKtxYo

Also also:
Is this Drylec the new ClydeR, but for the left?

[Warriorbird]

Sorry, I forgot golfing is hard work.

Because somehow golf fits with Democratic administrations.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/politics/bachmann-boehner-golf-outing-protest-aug-17-2011

[Methais]

Because somehow golf fits with Democratic administrations.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/politics/bachmann-boehner-golf-outing-protest-aug-17-2011

Especially when it involves getting women allowed into male only country clubs.

[Warriorbird]

Especially when it involves getting women allowed into male only country clubs.

Because Republicans never get angry when women get preferential treatment.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/maryland/maryland-man-files-lawsuit-against-nail-salon-after-being-charged-1-more-than-women-for-manicure-061511

(I love how I'm citing these from Fox.)

[Kembal]

Could you point to the studies that show Voter ID laws are "used to curb a racial minority vote"?

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/election2000/electionreformrpt0801.pdf
http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/documents/Indiana_voter.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/papers/PS_VoterID.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/research/Voter_ID_APSA.pdf
http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf

Feel free to read.

[Ryvicke]

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/election2000/electionreformrpt0801.pdf
http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/documents/Indiana_voter.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/papers/PS_VoterID.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/research/Voter_ID_APSA.pdf
http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf

Feel free to read.

I hope these links open in IE6. Looking forward to your insightful and nuanced response PB, or you know, just post a gif and disappear from the thread for a few days.

[Tgo01]

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/election2000/electionreformrpt0801.pdf
http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/documents/Indiana_voter.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/papers/PS_VoterID.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/research/Voter_ID_APSA.pdf
http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf

Feel free to read.

Do those links show that voter ID laws supposedly disenfranchise minority voters or do they show that voter ID laws have been specifically used to disenfranchise minority voters?

[Ryvicke]

Do those links show that voter ID laws supposedly disenfranchise minority voters or do they show that voter ID laws have been specifically used to disenfranchise minority voters?

Dude, stunned. Holy shit. Chicken and the egg. DEBUNKED!

[Tgo01]

Dude, stunned. Holy shit. Chicken and the egg. DEBUNKED!

You don't think intent plays any part in this discussion?

[Ryvicke]

You don't think intent plays any part in this discussion?

I guess I'm just wondering if you really think there is someone on record out there saying something like "oh we don't really care if people have ID's, we just want to keep the mexicans and college students away from the polls cause they vote democratic."

Cause 1. that would be really stupid to say, but also 2. that would be really fucking stupid to think anyone would say or that there would be entire studies written about it.

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say is that you're stupid. And if you click on those links you'll understand why. Just try it, click on the first one and read it a bit. Check it out.

[Tgo01]

I guess I'm just wondering if you really think there is someone on record out there saying something like "oh we don't really care if people have ID's, we just want to keep the mexicans and college students away from the polls cause they vote democratic."

Well that was the proposition that was postulated. I honestly have no idea if that sentence made sense, it just sounded good in my head.

[Ryvicke]

Well that was the proposition that was postulated. I honestly have no idea if that sentence made sense, it just sounded good in my head.

It's okay, I'm sorry I was so harsh cause you are still number 1 least awful.

It was a pretty fun sentence to read.

[Tgo01]

EDIT: I guess what I'm trying to say is that you're stupid. And if you click on those links you'll understand why. Just try it, click on the first one and read it a bit. Check it out.

Well heck at least I'm no longer a racist. Thanks Ryvicke!

I think this guy (http://loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/will-voter-id-laws-disenfranchise-democratic-voters/) sums up my position on this pretty well, even though he is against voter ID laws.


It’s not possible to show, he says, that many people have actually been deterred from voting by these laws. In part, that’s because many of these laws are new, and in part it’s because many of the people who lack an ID card tend not to be interested in voting in the first place.

I thought everyone who didn't have an ID rushed out to vote?


Republicans, he writes, may very well be trying to suppress the vote of Democratic-leaning groups, including minorities, and have found success in using the wedge issue of voter fraud to excite their base. At the same time, Democrats have used anger against the laws for their own political purposes, he says, and need to be careful not to exaggerate their measurable effects.

[Parkbandit]

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/election2000/electionreformrpt0801.pdf
http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/documents/Indiana_voter.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/papers/PS_VoterID.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/research/Voter_ID_APSA.pdf
http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf

Feel free to read.

Feel free to read my post again. You clearly didn't understand it.

[Atlanteax]

http://www.brennancenter.org/page/-/d/download_file_39242.pdf
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/election2000/electionreformrpt0801.pdf
http://depts.washington.edu/uwiser/documents/Indiana_voter.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/papers/PS_VoterID.pdf
http://faculty.washington.edu/mbarreto/research/Voter_ID_APSA.pdf
http://www.pewtrusts.org/uploadedFiles/wwwpewtrustsorg/Reports/Election_reform/Final%2520report20090218.pdf

Feel free to read.

Well, I see that *across the board* it looks like about 85% or so, will have zero issues voting with an ID law. Just a matter of the remaining 15% getting some kind of authorized ID !

HighSchool = 80%; Graduate = 90%
Less than $40k = 80%; more than $80k = 90%
non-white = 80-85%; white = 90%
25yrs = 85%; 35yrs = 95%; 55 yrs = 85%; Elderly = 75%

Conclusion = there is no specific discrimination against minorities.
Those that do not have an ID of some form, likely had no need of one before (do not drive, or essentially got thru with life not needing one as they appeared old enough to drink / whatever).
There does not seem to be any meaningful barrier for those w/o ID to obtain one.

[Atlanteax]

You merely quoted a supremacist, like I said. Laughing at people baiting black people and the family of a dead kid with racial slurs clearly doesn't make you a supremacist.

Where do you get this?

Or is this part of your chronic tendency to create hyperbole assessments?

[ClydeR]

I heard Ann Romney's nannies, maids and chauffeurs are outraged by Rosengate.

[Ryvicke]

Feel free to read my post again. You clearly didn't understand it.

UGH, I had put my money on you just posting a gif and maybe throwing out a 'umad?'

Who took the classic PB "you obviously misunderstood what I wrote so I refuse to respond"???

[Ryvicke]

Well, I see that *across the board* it looks like about 85% or so, will have zero issues voting with an ID law. Just a matter of the remaining 15% getting some kind of authorized ID !

HighSchool = 80%; Graduate = 90%
Less than $40k = 80%; more than $80k = 90%
non-white = 80-85%; white = 90%
25yrs = 85%; 35yrs = 95%; 55 yrs = 85%; Elderly = 75%

Conclusion = there is no specific discrimination against minorities.
Those that do not have an ID of some form, likely had no need of one before (do not drive, or essentially got thru with life not needing one as they appeared old enough to drink / whatever).
There does not seem to be any meaningful barrier for those w/o ID to obtain one.

The first link comes to the conclusion that 34% of females polled that were authorized to vote do not have the type of ID needed with their legal name. 32 million people.

Did you click on any of them?

[Ryvicke]

Well heck at least I'm no longer a racist. Thanks Ryvicke!

I didn't see any memos from my liberal cabal that you were no longer a racist. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[Warriorbird]

Where do you get this?

Or is this part of your chronic tendency to create hyperbole assessments?

Go back through your posts. Do a little digging.

[Atlanteax]

I didn't see any memos from my liberal cabal that you were no longer a racist. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

I do not think anyone who is a regular poster on this forum is a racist.

However, everyone, including you, clearly has biases of varying degrees.

[Atlanteax]

Go back through your posts. Do a little digging.

No need, I know for a fact that you are just making this perspective of yours up to justify some bizarre misconception on your part.

[Warriorbird]

No need, I know for a fact that you are just making this perspective of yours up to justify some bizarre misconception on your part.

Given the opportunity you love to talk about what black America "should be doing." You were amused by a sign with a racial slur on it. You pasted a racist article like it was important news that we all should see. You sure seem positive about Detroit.

Hmm.

I could go further.

Let's say some Hispanic fellow shoots your sister in a traffic dispute. He claims that she was going to hit him with her car. If the New Black Panther Party put up a related sign that said, "Ha ha. Dead white bitch." I'm not sure you'd find it funny at all.

[Parkbandit]

UGH, I had put my money on you just posting a gif and maybe throwing out a 'umad?'

I doubt your "money" was worth that much.. so no real loss.



Who took the classic PB "you obviously misunderstood what I wrote so I refuse to respond"???

I never expected you to understand.. which is illustrated by most of your posts in this thread after I posed the question. I believe that Kembal, with some guidance, can understand what he missed the first time though.

Please continue to troll and carry on though Ryvicke.. you are quickly becoming Backlash 2.0

[Ryvicke]

I never expected you to understand.. which is illustrated by most of your posts in this thread after I posed the question. I believe that Kembal, with some guidance, can understand what he missed the first time though.

Please continue to troll and carry on though Ryvicke.. you are quickly becoming Backlash 2.0

Gee, pops, I sure hope you can learn Kembal some stuff cause his posts were just too dang smart for my thinker. With some guidance maybe he can become a vapid caricature like you!

[Atlanteax]

I could go further.

You probably could at your grasping at straws.

[Warriorbird]

You probably could at your grasping at straws.

Go on. Talk about how awesome it is to see nigger on a roadside some more and tell us you're not racist.

[Parkbandit]

Go on. Talk about how awesome it is to see nigger on a roadside some more and tell us you're not racist.

Laughing at a roadside sign doesn't make you a racist.

Stop being retarded.

[AnticorRifling]

I honestly could care less if someone votes rep or dem but if they are voting it should be verified that they are legally allowed to vote and only the votes of legal persons should count.

[Parkbandit]

I honestly could care less if someone votes rep or dem but if they are voting it should be verified that they are legally allowed to vote and only the votes of legal persons should count.

Well, well.. look who's a racist one percenter.

Your attitude sickens me.

[AnticorRifling]

Yup you caught me.. wanting to make sure you're 18, a citizen of the United States of America, and registered to vote is clearly racist.

Does it have to be valid form of ID? No.

Just present me your plan for verification of the requirements for voting.

[Warriorbird]

Laughing at a roadside sign doesn't make you a racist.

Stop being retarded.

If that were but the only thing, you both would be in the clear.

[Atlanteax]

If that were but the only thing, you both would be in the clear.

Someone does not know how to be objective...

[Warriorbird]

Someone does not know how to be objective...

You don't even know what objective means. Soon you'll start asking people to stop using the scary punctuation too.

[TheEschaton]

You're laughing at a roadside sign that says "TRAYVON A NIGGER".

That's pretty racist.

[Atlanteax]

You're laughing at a roadside sign that says "TRAYVON A NIGGER".

That's pretty racist.

I laughed because it was pretty silly that someone went thru all that trouble (however it is) to hack into a roadside sign to do that.

[TheEschaton]

Yes, it is funny how serious a problem racism is when some people will go to those efforts to hack a sign to call a dead black kid a nigger.

[Jarvan]

Yes, it is funny how serious a problem racism is when some people will go to those efforts to hack a sign to call a dead black kid a nigger.

It's also funny when stupid black people use "nigger" 50 times in a song, refer to each other with it, and use it in every 10th word in a stand up routine.

I just always find it funny when people decry racism when a word is used, then use it all the time themself and claim that's fine.

Either a word is ok to use, or it's not. Frankly, I don't think the word should be used at all. Though I am sure a number of people.. maybe even Martin himself if he was alive, would disagree. After all, what was his Twitter name?

[Atlanteax]

"This" @ Jarvan's response.

[Warriorbird]

It's also funny when stupid black people use "nigger" 50 times in a song, refer to each other with it, and use it in every 10th word in a stand up routine.

I just always find it funny when people decry racism when a word is used, then use it all the time themself and claim that's fine.

Either a word is ok to use, or it's not. Frankly, I don't think the word should be used at all. Though I am sure a number of people.. maybe even Martin himself if he was alive, would disagree. After all, what was his Twitter name?

It's telling how much you want to not understand. Did the mean black boys do better than you at sports?

[Parkbandit]

If that were but the only thing, you both would be in the clear.

You know, if you weren't a wife beater, you might still be married.

Hitting women never solved anything man.

[Warriorbird]

You know, if you weren't a wife beater, you might still be married.

Hitting women never solved anything man.

So here's the bit where I teach a lesson about calling people socialists, communists, libtards, and Nazis. Thanks.

There's countless instances of the two of you going on and on about how awful minorities are. Pretty much your only posting about members of minorities is negative.

Laughing at racist jokes gets less funny in context.

[Parkbandit]

You're laughing at a roadside sign that says "TRAYVON A NIGGER".

That's pretty racist.

I agree that the sign is racist.. but laughing at the sign isn't racist.

I think we can agree that some of Chris Rock's standup routines are racist.. but I laugh my ass off at it. That doesn't make me a racist.

[Parkbandit]

There's countless instances of the two of you going on and on about how awful minorities are. Pretty much your only posting about members of minorities is negative.


If there are countless instances of me posting how awful minorities are, you should be able to give me some examples.

Do it.

For once, just once, back up your stupidity with an actual quote.

[Warriorbird]

If there are countless instances of me posting how awful minorities are, you should be able to give me some examples.

Do it.

For once, just once, back up your stupidity with an actual quote.

Mmm. Go find yourself talking positive about them and I'll consider taking the effort. I'm curious to see what it'll be. Will it be some token Herman Cain?

[AnticorRifling]

So what is an alternative to having a valid ID to vote?

An alternative must include the ability to prove the person is of legal age, is a US citizen, and has properly registered to vote.

[Warriorbird]

So what is an alternative to having a valid ID to vote?

An alternative must include the ability to prove the person is of legal age, is a US citizen, and has properly registered to vote.

How are you going to avoid disenfranchising people?

[Parkbandit]

Mmm. Go find yourself talking positive about them and I'll consider taking the effort. I'm curious to see what it'll be. Will it be some token Herman Cain?

So, you can't back up your claims.... shocker. No one is surprised.

PS - I judge individuals, not entire races. You should try it sometime.

[TheEschaton]

It's also funny when stupid black people use "nigger" 50 times in a song, refer to each other with it, and use it in every 10th word in a stand up routine.

I just always find it funny when people decry racism when a word is used, then use it all the time themself and claim that's fine.

Either a word is ok to use, or it's not. Frankly, I don't think the word should be used at all. Though I am sure a number of people.. maybe even Martin himself if he was alive, would disagree. After all, what was his Twitter name?

The use of "nigger" in the black community is the same as the origin of the use of "Yankee" in colonial times, and "fag" in the gay community. It's a sociological concept where populations take over a word meant as an insult to change its meaning and empower themselves. ETA: This doesn't make the word acceptable to use for those people from people outside the community.

Of course, I know your dislike of sociology, Jarvan, but way to reaffirm your retardedness, man. Strong stuff.

[Warriorbird]

So, you can't back up your claims.... shocker. No one is surprised.

PS - I judge individuals, not entire races. You should try it sometime.

So what does it say when all your "individual" judgments are negative?

Hmm.

[TheEschaton]

Of course, btw, I've said this both to PB and Atlanteax before (the sociological bit about "owning" insults), but they've both ignored it, so who's the bigger fool, the fool, or the fool who "@this's" at the fool's post?

[AnticorRifling]

How are you going to avoid disenfranchising people?

Is that a bigger concern than fraud to you?

I've not done any research on it but aren't state IDs free to those that can't afford them and are legally eligible to receive one? If not and that was made an option would that be acceptable?

------

To me the risk of fraud is more concerning than someone being disenfranchised to getting a valid ID in order to vote. I'll be the first to honestly admit I don't understand or get the fear or thought process behind that.

[Warriorbird]

Is that a bigger concern than fraud to you?

I've not done any research on it but aren't state IDs free to those that can't afford them and are legally eligible to receive one? If not and that was made an option would that be acceptable?

------

To me the risk of fraud is more concerning than someone being disenfranchised to getting a valid ID in order to vote. I'll be the first to honestly admit I don't understand or get the fear or thought process behind that.

Disenfranchistment is exponentially more a factor than fraud in modern elections. You're talking about the tools that yes, they were Democrats then, used to block black Southerners from voting for ages.

[AnticorRifling]

So what does it say when all your "individual" judgments are negative?

Hmm.

Obvious troll is obvious.

[Warriorbird]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Of course. Every once in a while I decide to argue like a reactionary Republican (and no, I don't put you in that category.)

[AnticorRifling]

Disenfranchistment is exponentially more a factor than fraud. You're talking about the tools that yes, they were Democrats then, used to block black Southerners from voting for ages.

Then is great and excellent for study. I'm talking about applications now...you know the time when all of us in our 30s weren't even alive when segregation existed. Understanding history and appreciating it is important but that wound can not heal if we continue to pick at it.

I'm not wanting to prevent any legal citizen of voting age from registering and voting. How is that bad?


If my canidate wins or loses I hope it's because the people spoke through their votes and not just the people I wanted to vote spoke.

[Warriorbird]

Then is great and excellent for study. I'm talking about applications now...you know the time when all of us in our 30s weren't even alive when segregation existed. Understanding history and appreciating it is important but that wound can not heal if we continue to pick at it.

I'm not wanting to prevent any legal citizen of voting age from registering and voting. How is that bad?


If my canidate wins or loses I hope it's because the people spoke through their votes and not just the people I wanted to vote spoke.

Compare actual voter fraud in Florida to all the people the Republicans tried to kick off the voter rolls in the last three Presidential elections. One is astronomically higher.

But that might put too much history into it!

[AnticorRifling]

Compare actual voter fraud in Florida to all the people the Republicans tried to kick off the voter rolls in the last two Presidential elections. One is astronomically higher.

So you want to compare just democrat fraud or compare all fraud and then compare both parties attempts at changing the voter rolls?

You can't apply a party name to one negative and not the other...unless YOU SIR IS A BIASED! :)

[AnticorRifling]

Was 2 elections not enough negative data you had to go back three with your edit?

[Warriorbird]

Was 2 elections not enough negative data you had to go back three with your edit?

It was to justify the history quote and because I forgot 2000 was 3 elections ago (Daaamn. Age!)

Really though. We're talking hundreds of thousands with the disenfranchisement issues and 1,400 (from a Republican site) in just one state related to actual electoral. Extend it to the whole country.

Conspiracy theory me would also like to point out that Republicans sandbagged the best way to prevent fraud, the national ID card, because they wanted illegals to still work at Archer Daniels Midland and cleaning Walmart.

[Tgo01]

Hawaii, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware and Washington all have voter ID laws and I'm pretty sure Democrats had the governor and a majority or close majority in the state's senate.

Rhode Island and Virginia have voter ID laws and had a Republican governor but a Democratic senate.

How do these states fit in with the narrative that voter ID laws are just an evil Republican scheme to disenfranchise Democrat voters?

[Warriorbird]

Hawaii, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware and Washington all have voter ID laws and I'm pretty sure Democrats had the governor and a majority or close majority in the state's senate.

Rhode Island and Virginia have voter ID laws and had a Republican governor but a Democratic senate.

How do these states fit in with the narrative that voter ID laws are just an evil Republican scheme to disenfranchise Democrat voters?

Voter id laws, like many laws, vary in nature.

Virginia doesn't actually have a Democratic Senate.

This is a state where the Republicans actually tried to make stuffing a metal probe up a woman a requirement to get abortion. Not exactly the most liberal place in the world.

What blog did you source this from to try to troll people?

[Parkbandit]

So what does it say when all your "individual" judgments are negative?

Hmm.

I'm still waiting on one quote from you. Just one.

Or maybe you are just so stupid, you thought "countless" was another word for zero?

[Parkbandit]

Of course, btw, I've said this both to PB and Atlanteax before (the sociological bit about "owning" insults), but they've both ignored it, so who's the bigger fool, the fool, or the fool who "@this's" at the fool's post?

You will always be the biggest fool here. See Methais' signature for further proof.

[Warriorbird]

I'm still waiting on one quote from you. Just one.

Or maybe you are just so stupid, you thought "countless" was another word for zero?

I gave you my requirements. Not my fault if you can't meet them.

[Tgo01]

Voter id laws, like many laws, vary in nature.

So just photo ID laws are evil or what?


What blog did you source this from to try to troll people?

I actually just googled which states have voter ID laws and I googled who was governor and who controlled the senate of these states in 2010. I'll admit I didn't google when the laws were passed in each state I was just going by the earlier argument that Republicans have been passing these laws since regaining more seats in 2010.

Either way a couple of the states I mentioned are indeed traditional "blue" states.

[Parkbandit]

I gave you my requirements. Not my fault if you can't meet them.

So, you claim I made "countless" negative remarks about minorities..which makes me a racist... but in order for you to post one of these remarks, I must first go through my posts to find a positive comment about a minority?

Seriously.. you should have stuck with "I wasn't talking about you.. I was talking about PeanutButter"... it would make you seem less pathetic (but not much)

You should put "effective trolling" down on the list of things you fail miserably at. It will go right under being a good husband.

[Warriorbird]

So just photo ID laws are evil or what?



I actually just googled which states have voter ID laws and I googled who was governor and who controlled the senate of these states in 2010. I'll admit I didn't google when the laws were passed in each state I was just going by the earlier argument that Republicans have been passing these laws since regaining more seats in 2010.

Either way a couple of the states I mentioned are indeed traditional "blue" states.

Let's read a little more deeply.


Currently only two states, Georgia and Indiana, require voters to show photo ID when they go to vote at polling stations.

Only two states require voters to show ID at the polling stations.


But Kansas, Tennessee, Wisconsin and, pending the Justice Department’s approval, South Carolina and Texas will all probably have such laws in place in time for next year’s presidential primaries.

That seem very blue to you?


But the sort of deception that showing a government-issued photo ID would prevent—voter-impersonation fraud, in which one person on the voter rolls tries to vote as someone else—is very rare. Too rare, say some opponents, to justify erecting barriers that will disproportionately disenfranchise poor, young and minority voters, who tend to support Democrats. Tova Wang, a fellow at Demos, a public-policy think-tank, notes that this new push for stronger voter-ID laws occurred—suspiciously enough—after Republican takeovers of state legislatures and governorships in 2010. No member of South Carolina’s legislative black caucus supported its photo-ID law, and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) claims that the state “ignored significant testimony from opponents of the bill regarding its racial impact…[and] may have enacted the requirement with the intent to discriminate against minorities.”

Actual amounts of "voter impersonation fraud"?


Fewer than five "illegal voting" complaints involving voter impersonations were filed with the Texas Attorney General's Office from the 2008 and 2010 general elections in which more than 13 million voters participated.

The Texas attorney general's office did not give the outcome of the four illegal voting complaints that were filed. Only one remains pending, according to agency records.

Another state.

Yet roughly 11% of total voters lack photo ids.

Source = http://www.brennancenter.org/blog/archives/debunking_misinformation_on_photo_id/

And in actual terms?


1). “Non-photo ID laws [are] associated with a 2.2% point decline in turnout, and photo ID laws are correlated with a 1.6% point decline.” In a related analysis, the author found a 1.1% decline in turnout in states with strengthened photo ID laws between 2002 and 2006. 2). In 2002, prior to the widespread adoption of photo ID poll requirements, more than 40% of eligible voters in states with no voting ID requirements and more than 35% of voters in states with minimal ID requirements turned out at the polls. By 2006, the percentage of voting-age citizens who turned out in states with no ID requirement or a non-photo ID requirement increased to 42% and 38%, respectively. States requiring a photo voter ID saw the lowest percentage of voter turnout, approximately 37%. 3). Counties with older populations saw an increase in turnout of 1.5%. However, counties with higher Hispanic and Asian-American populations saw a small negative effect on voter turnout as ID laws were tightened. Greater household income positively correlated with voter turnout. 4). Possible variables impacting overall voter turnout include Election Day registration (associated with increases), the presence of an incumbent (a small increase) or a controversial ballot initiative (a 4.6% point increase in voter turnout). Much of the increase in voter turnout can be attributed to news coverage and state-sponsored public outreach.

They reduce turnout and those numbers still blow the OMG voter impersonation fraud! numbers to smithereens, even if you counted all 50 states.

P.S. Stop projecting your parenting issues, PB. The debate's over here. It's not my fault you can't meet my requirements. Wow. It's like a voter id law.

[Parkbandit]

Mmm. Go find yourself talking positive about them and I'll consider taking the effort. I'm curious to see what it'll be. Will it be some token Herman Cain?

Ok, I'll play your game:

In the thread "Palin Recommends Allen West for VP", I made this post:


If I'm "certain people", then yes it does. He would be my first choice... even over your Mormon pal Rubio.

And my personal favorite..


Clarence Thomas is just a staggeringly awesome Justice.


He's top 3 for me. You must not like him because he's black.

Racist.


So, there's 2 posts I made positive remarks about minorities.. and one included a rather rude remark from you about a minority. Looks like you are a racist.

Now.. live up to your end of the bargain... or do what you do best, post something even dumber than your last post.

[Tgo01]

Let's read a little more deeply.

Only two states require voters to show ID at the polling stations.

Alright alright WB, you trolled me pretty good, I'll admit it.

[Warriorbird]

Alright alright WB, you trolled me pretty good, I'll admit it.

I trust you to do the reading. I actually have mixed feelings on the whole issue. I'm considered crazy by my Libertarian relatives, Democrats, and Republicans alike for thinking a National ID Card is a good thing (the list of reasons why goes on, simultaneously, there's an equally long list of reasons it will never happen, like a Ron Paul Presidency). Simultaneously, I think photo id laws pretty clearly exist for a specific reason. I've spent a lot of time learning about the pre-Civil Rights Era South though, so it effects things.

I'm far more proud of showing off Parkbandit's tokenism though, trolling wise. Even though you spend some degree of time just fucking with people I do believe we can sometimes have a real discussion. I have to respect that.

[Atlanteax]

Of course, btw, I've said this both to PB and Atlanteax before (the sociological bit about "owning" insults), but they've both ignored it, so who's the bigger fool, the fool, or the fool who "@this's" at the fool's post?

Someone should take their own advice.

[Back]

Of course, btw, I've said this both to PB and Atlanteax before (the sociological bit about "owning" insults), but they've both ignored it, so who's the bigger fool, the fool, or the fool who "@this's" at the fool's post?

C'mon. Everyone knows the fool that enter a fool's game is fooler.

[Tgo01]

Alright then.


Only two states require voters to show ID at the polling stations.

This is partly misleading, partly outdated information and partly bad wording on your part. I assume you meant only two states currently require photo ID, even then there are many other states that have passed photo ID laws but they have not gone into effect yet.


That seem very blue to you?

Both Hawaii and Rhode Island have passed photo ID laws but they aren't in effect yet. And yes I would call those blue states.

So why are photo ID laws evil but non photo ID laws are okay? Isn't disenfranchisement disenfranchisement? Even the link you provided claimed non photo ID laws led to less people voting.

[Warriorbird]

Alright then.



This is partly misleading, partly outdated information and partly bad wording on your part. I assume you meant only two states currently require photo ID, even then there are many other states that have passed photo ID laws but they have not gone into effect yet.



Both Hawaii and Rhode Island have passed photo ID laws but they aren't in effect yet. And yes I would call those blue states.

So why are photo ID laws evil but non photo ID laws are okay? Isn't disenfranchisement disenfranchisement? Even the link you provided claimed non photo ID laws led to less people voting.

Since we were claiming Virginia as having a Democratic Senate (for trolling purposes) I figured we were talking about currently.

Looking at it legitimately though, would you say it was more red states or blue states?

Additionally, Hawaii has a photo id or alternative law.

But more interestingly


"It's important to note that the Rhode Island voter ID bill isn't nearly as restrictive as those passed by GOP-controlled legislatures in Florida, Missouri, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Maine, and beyond," says Carolyn Fiddler, communications director for the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee. "In the end, ballots cast by registered voters without IDs in Rhode Island will still be counted. The passage of this legislation changes nothing with regard to the fundamental arguments against GOP attempts to depress voter turnout and reduce ballot box access elsewhere."

They also offer free IDs.


Protecting your vote:

We will provide a free Photo ID to voters who don't have one

http://sos.ri.gov/elections/voterid/

And regarding Hawaii


I do not have any identification with me. Can I vote? [§ 11-136]
Yes. Precinct officials may request voters to provide identification, and a voter must provide ID if requested by a precinct official. Every person applying to vote shall sign the poll book unless the requirement is waived due to illiteracy, blindness or other physical disability.

Now. Why are these two states different? What's largely not present in both? Why isn't disenfranchisement an issue there?

I'm sure you can put it together. It gets more interesting when you compare it to the other states on the list.

[Tgo01]

Looking at it legitimately though, would you say it was more red states or blue states?

That's besides the point. Voter ID laws are either a ploy by the GOP or it's not.


"It's important to note that the Rhode Island voter ID bill isn't nearly as restrictive as those passed by GOP-controlled legislatures in Florida, Missouri, North Carolina, Wisconsin, Maine, and beyond," says Carolyn Fiddler, communications director for the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee. "In the end, ballots cast by registered voters without IDs in Rhode Island will still be counted. The passage of this legislation changes nothing with regard to the fundamental arguments against GOP attempts to depress voter turnout and reduce ballot box access elsewhere."

Well heck as long as the communications director for the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee ensures everyone the voter ID laws in a Democratic state like Rhode Island aren't as bad as those in Republican states then who am I to argue?

""In the end, ballots cast by registered voters without IDs in Rhode Island will still be counted."

This is partly true. (http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx)


The local board shall examine each provisional ballot application to determine if the signature matches the signature on the voter's registration. If the signatures match, the provisional ballot shall count. If the signatures do not match, the ballot shall not count and shall be rejected as illegal.

If the board determines the signatures match the vote will count.

As to those states named that "are more restrictive."

Florida:


If the elector fails to furnish the required identification, the elector shall be allowed to vote a provisional ballot. The canvassing board shall determine the validity of the ballot by determining whether the elector is entitled to vote at the precinct where the ballot was cast and that the elector had not already cast a ballot in the election.

Missouri:


If an individual does not possess any of these forms of identification, s/he may still cast a ballot if two supervising election judges, one from each major political party, attest they know the person.

North Carolina's governor vetoed their law.

Wisconsin doesn't allow one to get around the ID law.

And Maine apparently killed their voter ID laws.

You are correct Hawaii doesn't necessarily require photo ID.

I'm still curious why you seem to be discounting non photo voter ID laws. Is it easier to make the claim that Republicans are disenfranchising voters if we ignore several laws passed by Democrats that have non photo voter ID laws?

[Warriorbird]

That's besides the point. Voter ID laws are either a ploy by the GOP or it's not.



Well heck as long as the communications director for the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee ensures everyone the voter ID laws in a Democratic state like Rhode Island aren't as bad as those in Republican states then who am I to argue?

""In the end, ballots cast by registered voters without IDs in Rhode Island will still be counted."

This is partly true. (http://www.ncsl.org/legislatures-elections/elections/voter-id.aspx)



If the board determines the signatures match the vote will count.

As to those states named that "are more restrictive."

Florida:



Missouri:



North Carolina's governor vetoed their law.

Wisconsin doesn't allow one to get around the ID law.

And Maine apparently killed their voter ID laws.

You are correct Hawaii doesn't necessarily require photo ID.

I'm still curious why you seem to be discounting non photo voter ID laws. Is it easier to make the claim that Republicans are disenfranchising voters if we ignore several laws passed by Democrats that have non photo voter ID laws?

You still missed it. Maybe you're incapable of seeing it. Progress for the world.

And notably? Look at the party for the Governor of North Carolina and Maine. You're not proving much. Hawaii and Rhode Island are exceedingly secure Democratic states. Why do you think they somehow speak to the truth of what Republicans are doing?

And thus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

Then there's that other factor. If you don't see I'm actually glad.

[Parkbandit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZf25pmgR4c

[Tgo01]

You still missed it. Maybe you're incapable of seeing it.

Curse you! You trolled me again. Alright I'm taking my ball and going home.

[Tgo01]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZf25pmgR4c

But we're supposed to make it as easy as possible for everyone to vote, including illegal aliens, people who want to vote four times and Mickey Mouse.

[Parkbandit]

But we're supposed to make it as easy as possible for everyone to vote, including illegal aliens, people who want to vote four times and Mickey Mouse.

Why do you believe it's ok to disenfranchise Mickey Mouse???

[ClydeR]

I heard Ann Romney's nannies, maids and chauffeurs are outraged by Rosengate.

Looks like I was exactly right.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/ann-romneys-childhood-nanny-dishes-on-privilege

[Tgo01]

I think Clyder forgot how to play his persona.

[Warriorbird]

I think Clyder forgot how to play his persona.

Lots of time I think you are ClydeR. Double agent.

[ClydeR]

Uh oh.

Is there any way to interpret Romney's words except to conclude that he believes stay-at-home moms do no have the "dignity of work"?


Mitt Romney, it turns out, was against calling stay-at-home mothers “working moms” before he was for it.

MSNBC’s Chris Hayes broke the news this morning. Back in January, Romney appeared at a town hall even in Manchester, New Hampshire, where he explained his position on welfare.

“While I was governor,” Romney said, “85 percent of the people on a form of welfare assistance in my state had no work requirement. I wanted to increase the work requirement. I said, for instance, that even if you have a child two years of age, you need to go to work. And people said, ‘Well that’s heartless,’ and I said ‘No, no, I’m willing to spend more giving daycare to allow those parents to go back to work. It’ll cost the state more providing that daycare, but I want the individuals to have the dignity of work.’”

Read that again: “I want the individuals to have the dignity of work.” And by “individuals,” Romney means “mothers.”

More... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/mitt-romney-flashback-stay-at-home-moms-need-to-learn-dignity-of-work/2012/04/15/gIQAhmbZJT_blog.html)