Crime Victim Arrested in Pasadena

[ClydeR]

Simplified explanation of what police believe happened..

A and B robbed C. C called 911 and reported the robbery. During the call, C told the 911 operator that the two robbers each had a gun during the robbery. C knew that the two robbers did not have a gun, but C thought that claiming the robbers had a gun would cause the police to respond quicker. The police found A and B. During the arrest, B appeared to reach for something in his waistband. The police shot and killed B. When the police discovered that C had lied about the gun, C was arrested for manslaughter, on the theory that C's deceit framed the sate of mind of the police, making them more cautious when they saw B reach into his waistband. In other words, the police claim they would not have shot B if C had not lied to them about B having a gun.

It happened in Pasadena, California.

Is it right to send C to jail for manslaughter when he lied just to get a faster response from police? Should C just be charged with lying to police? Would this charge make crime victims fearful of reporting crime? Are the police trying to shift blame to someone else? Does B's family have cause to complain?

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Man-considered-victim-turned-suspect-in-shooting-3446195.php

I looked it up on a map, and Pasadena is right next to Los Angeles.

[Lord Orbstar]

As a california cop, yes. That is a reasonable legal scenario for arrest with precedence. It will be up to the courts and a jury of their peers now.

[Gelston]

I think what really should happen is they should determine whether or not the officer would have fired if he had no information on the suspect.

[AnticorRifling]

What race were A B and C?!

[Celephais]

Reaching into your waistband while being arrested is generally a bad idea, regardless of the the cops state of mind.

If C had said "I think he might have a gun", B still probably would have been shot. C should be charged with whatever the charge for false accusations is, and that should be that (pending an investigation/officer history/slap on wrist stuff, etc).

[Gelston]

Dead dude was a 19 year old black college student. RACE WAR IS ON AGAIN!

And holy shit, the guy who is now charged has a Hispanic name.

[AnticorRifling]

On the call, the dispatcher asked: "Do they have any weapons?"

"Yeah, they have a gun," Carrillo replied.



---

Dude lied about it. He should be accountable...but not if he's, any color but white, because then it's racist.

[ClydeR]

Dude lied about it. He should be accountable.

Of course. But does "accountable" mean being punished for manslaughter or for lying to police?

[Bobmuhthol]

Call me a brainwashed liberal, but I'm finding it hard to blame a 911 caller for a police shooting that occurred at the end of a chase. They should know better.

Does hearing that the guy had a gun on him from a civilian really impact the officer's behavior when he corners a robbery suspect and sees him move suddenly? If it did, he's a really shitty cop. Fuck the po-lice, who are partially to blame, and fuck the b-lack kid who is also partially to blame. The 911 caller? Nope.

[AnticorRifling]

Of course. But does "accountable" mean being punished for manslaughter or for lying to police?

No.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I don't think the police should have any blame at all, regardless of what the caller said. Don't police approach all suspects assuming they are armed?

And if I was a criminal, and got caught, I'd sure as fuck not make any sudden movements or anything else that could be interpreted as reaching for a weapon.

Blame the criminals, not the enforcers or the victim, in this case.

[Tgo01]

From the pictures I've found the caller was black so no racism from the caller here, move along people.

Also you should all listen to the 911 call (http://www.sgvtribune.com/news/ci_20276772/audio-oscar-carrillos-911-call-pasadena-police-mcdade?source=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter), it's obvious the guy is just making shit up as he's going along, I wonder if he even had a laptop.

"One of them had a gun" then later on "They BOTH had a gun."
"Yeah they were both wearing black sweaters, and white hats" black sweaters and white hats? Then later on "They were wearing BLACK hats, and black pants."

Oh okay, so they were your typical burglar wearing black pants, black sweaters and black ski caps right? Surprised he didn't say they were wearing black gloves too.

Also I'm not sure if the 911 operator was equally as stupid or she knew the guy was lying and was trying to see if he would keep changing his story as she asked questions. At the very beginning the guy says they both ran away in opposite directions then 5 minutes later she's asking "They didn't take your car did they?"

[Ryvicke]

Why the fuck did C ever even admit to lying about the guns? Stand strong, liars.

[Bobmuhthol]

I don't think the police should have any blame at all, regardless of what the caller said. Don't police approach all suspects assuming they are armed?
We definitely need to place some blame (if not most blame) on the police, because I'd sure as fuck be upset if I reached in my glove box only to have a cop yell gun, shoot me in the head, and pull a "it was coming right for us!!!" when asked why I've been shot in the head. There should never be an assumption that everyone is armed. There should, however, be a strong emphasis on keeping everyone involved alive.

[Latrinsorm]

This summer, from the makers of suicide by cop, it's manslaughter by cop!

[Atlanteax]

We definitely need to place some blame (if not most blame) on the police, because I'd sure as fuck be upset if I reached in my glove box only to have a cop yell gun, shoot me in the head, and pull a "it was coming right for us!!!" when asked why I've been shot in the head. There should never be an assumption that everyone is armed. There should, however, be a strong emphasis on keeping everyone involved alive.

This was not a traffic stop.

The police probably yelled "freeze!!" to the suspect ... who then reached into his waistband. Is that not a 'common place' for guns to be 'stored' ? Why did the suspect not just keep his hands in the air? (well nevermind on that, he *ran* from the police and only stopped because a police car blocked his path).

Sounds to me that the guy who was shot was an utter idiot (candidate for a Darwin?).

[Celephais]

I'd sure as fuck be upset if ... a cop ..shoot me in the head

No you wouldn't.

I do agree with you that the cop shouldn't be acting any differently when it comes to discharging a firearm based on information relayed from the 911 operator. I think the information about the gun is superfluous to how the cop should be treated, have an investigation, see if it was reasonable for him to assume the man had a gun (without the caller info), and proceed from there.

You're example about you being upset is missing the part where you had just robbed someone too.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

We definitely need to place some blame (if not most blame) on the police, because I'd sure as fuck be upset if I reached in my glove box only to have a cop yell gun, shoot me in the head, and pull a "it was coming right for us!!!" when asked why I've been shot in the head. There should never be an assumption that everyone is armed. There should, however, be a strong emphasis on keeping everyone involved alive.

I am speaking to this incident alone - I understood the person was shot after a car chase as a result of a reported robbery. So presumably the car didn’t just pull over like a regular traffic stop. I could be wrong, and I don’t disagree with you that police should endeavor to keep people alive – but I’d say if it was a robbery, a chase ensues, the perp is cornered and he makes a sudden move for what could be a gun… I don’t blame the police.

[Parkbandit]

What race were A B and C?!

/thread

[ClydeR]

/thread

I've watched enough episodes of the Cleveland Show and Everybody Hates Chris to know that black people believe the only way they can get a police response is to make an emergency sound much worse than it really is.

[Celephais]

What race were A B and C?!

African, Black and Caucasian.

[thefarmer]

African, Black and Caucasian.

Now we need the cops to have been Hispanic and Asian.

The lulz that would follow would totally start national race riots and bring about the end of the civilized world that the Doomsday Preppers are waiting for.



Also: Obligatory Linsensitive shout-out

[Gelston]

Now we need the cops to have been Hispanic and Asian.

The lulz that would follow would totally start national race riots and bring about the end of the civilized world that the Doomsday Preppers are waiting for.



Also: Obligatory Linsensitivity shout-out

HELTER SKELTER?

[Bobmuhthol]

This was not a traffic stop.

The police probably yelled "freeze!!" to the suspect ... who then reached into his waistband. Is that not a 'common place' for guns to be 'stored' ?
So's a glove box, and I'm afraid of giving police the green light to kill anyone who moves their hands without announcing it six times beforehand.


I am speaking to this incident alone - I understood the person was shot after a car chase as a result of a reported robbery. So presumably the car didn’t just pull over like a regular traffic stop. I could be wrong, and I don’t disagree with you that police should endeavor to keep people alive – but I’d say if it was a robbery, a chase ensues, the perp is cornered and he makes a sudden move for what could be a gun… I don’t blame the police.
I thought the robbers were on foot, but I don't really understand all of the details either. As above, my concern is excusing a police shooting on the grounds that the officer was afraid -- not because something frightening happened but because he thought something frightening was going to happen, and he apparently shot to kill or has terrible aim.

[Celephais]

Now we need the cops to have been Hispanic and Asian.

The lulz that would follow would totally start national race riots and bring about the end of the civilized world that the Doomsday Preppers are waiting for.



Also: Obligatory Linsensitive shout-out

Gah, I just realized I should have said Arab, Black, Caucasian, that would have been perfect for this hypothetical racial tension bomb.

http://i.imgur.com/APqU7.jpg

[Eoghain]

Everyone in L.A. is racist against everyone else. Whites are afraid of blacks and hispanics, blacks hate whites and asians, asians hate blacks, and mexicans... Do mexicans hate anyone? Whatever, that's enough.

My black friend has been tackled full on by police while walking down the street listening to his iPod and was so injured by it that he had to go to the ER for a fucked up ankle. His mindset is so utterly expectingo f this that he's done nothing about it, and a few weeks ago I watched a cop whoI thought was hispanic but my boyfriend says was asian respond to a medical emergency in my backyard and the first thing he did was hit my black friend across the face with his radio. While a white woman was on the ground seizing.

L.A. is fuccccccked UP.