Strategic Voting in Republican Open Primaries

[ClydeR]

http://youtu.be/9OXrnnmvdXg

Certain People are encouraging Democrats in Michigan and other open primary states to vote in the Republican primary for the purpose of skewing the results.

All I can say is be careful what you wish for, lest it come true.

[Tgo01]

What the hell do you mean by 'certain people'?

[Back]

Republicans did that in the democratic primary before Obama was elected.

What can we learn from this?

The republicans had zero effect on that primary. If republicans want to engage in questionable practices it is ok for any party to engage in questionable practices.

[ClydeR]

Republicans did that in the democratic primary before Obama was elected.

Were the Republican voting for Obama or Clinton?

[Mycetozan]

we were encouraged to vote for Clinton. People hated her so passionately, it was anticipated that she woudl cause a greater republican turn out. Obama seemed less offensive at the time and more likely to win.

Demoracts are being encouraged to vote for Santorum. Romeny is seen as the more likely to beat Obama. Even though Romney will almost undoubtedly eventually win the nomintion, f it si close, he will look bad and it will eaken him. Also the more he has to spend, the less he has for later.

[Back]

Were the Republican voting for Obama or Clinton?


If democrats stoop to the low level of the republicans they might vote for Santorum. But democrats aren't as dirty players as republicans.

You know it's true.

[Kembal]

What the hell do you mean by 'certain people'?

Rick Santorum's campaign is robocalling Democrats to vote for him in the Republican primary, since it's an open primary.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/02/dirty-trick-santorum-targets-michigan-dems-with-robobcall-that-sounds-like-it-came-from-uaw.php?ref=fpblg

Also, DailyKos and probably a couple of other websites are encouraging this as well.

But the really funny part is Santorum himself officially pushing it.

[ClydeR]

Rick Santorum's campaign is robocalling Democrats to vote for him in the Republican primary, since it's an open primary.

Isn't that exactly what successful politicians do? Try to appeal to people from outside their party?

[Lulfas]

http://youtu.be/9OXrnnmvdXg

Certain People are encouraging Democrats in Michigan and other open primary states to vote in the Republican primary for the purpose of skewing the results.

All I can say is be careful what you wish for, lest it come true.

Is that your attempt at subliminal messaging?

[Drew]

If democrats stoop to the low level of the republicans they might vote for Santorum. But democrats aren't as dirty players as republicans.

You know it's true.

This is so sad, that you really believe your side is "better" than the other one. That's a deep level of delusion I usually reserve for the very old and young.

[TheEschaton]

Well, Back has the mental acuity of a four year old, so there's that.

[Back]

This is so sad, that you really believe your side is "better" than the other one. That's a deep level of delusion I usually reserve for the very old and young.

Saying that both are as bad as the other is a ploy of the republicans to cover their bullshit. Don't be fooled man.

I know this is not foot ball but if you have no conviction in your side and cannot stand up for what you believe then you are delusional.


Well, Back has the mental acuity of a four year old, so there's that.

And you suck at Diplomacy.

[Archigeek]

Anyone who thinks a robo-call is going to solicit some form of a positive response has lost their mind. Especially in Michigan where it isn't an open primary. Only republicans can vote in a republican primary, but the catch is that you can declare on the spot and change your mind about who/what you are as many times as you want. Very few people are going to go to that level of trouble just to tweak someone else, especially when it's highly unlikely to matter in the least bit. And... robocalls.

[Fallen]

What makes you think they wont matter? There have been some extremely close calls already in this primary season.

[Archigeek]

What makes you think they wont matter? There have been some extremely close calls already in this primary season.

Because so few democrats are going to go out and vote in a republican primary because someone robo-called them and told them they should. You could be right if it's really close, but it just doesn't seem like it will matter, simply because so few will respond. I'd say the same if it were a democratic primary and republicans being asked to go vote in it.

[Jarvan]

Anyone who thinks a robo-call is going to solicit some form of a positive response has lost their mind. Especially in Michigan where it isn't an open primary. Only republicans can vote in a republican primary, but the catch is that you can declare on the spot and change your mind about who/what you are as many times as you want. Very few people are going to go to that level of trouble just to tweak someone else, especially when it's highly unlikely to matter in the least bit. And... robocalls.

Umm.. Check your facts.. Michigan IS an Open primary. It's AZ that isn't.

[ClydeR]

Is that your attempt at subliminal messaging?

Clyde does everything up front and out in public. None of that subliminal stuff.

[ClydeR]

Picture it. February 23, 2000. George W. Bush has swept through the Republican primaries and is the expected winner in Michigan, until...


Wednesday, February 23, 2000

Bolstered by Democrats with a grudge, John McCain last night stunned George W. Bush in Michigan with a solid win that transformed the GOP presidential race into a long-haul dogfight.

Early projections showed McCain, who had been on the brink of passing into also-ran status after his dispiriting loss in South Carolina on Saturday, beating Bush 50% to 44% in Michigan.

More... (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2000-02-23/news/18131067_1_mccain-majority-john-mccain-gop-presidential-race)


Voter surveys showed that Michigan Republicans went overwhelmingly for Bush. McCain offset the GOP advantage by racking up support from independents and blue-collar Reagan Democrats who flocked to the polls to send a message to Gov. John Engler (R-Mich.), Bush's state campaign manager.

McCain's 2000 victory in Michigan -- much like Romney's 2012 victory in New Hampshire -- was, in large part, due to Democrat voters.

[ClydeR]

Anyone who thinks a robo-call is going to solicit some form of a positive response has lost their mind. Especially in Michigan where it isn't an open primary. Only republicans can vote in a republican primary, but the catch is that you can declare on the spot and change your mind about who/what you are as many times as you want. Very few people are going to go to that level of trouble just to tweak someone else, especially when it's highly unlikely to matter in the least bit. And... robocalls.

Revel in your state's rebelliousness. Don't minimize it.

[Tgo01]

I think what Clyder is trying to say is that since the Democrats helped McCain with the Republican nomination in Michigan in 2000 then went on to lose to Bush, then Bush went on to win the presidency, that really Democrats helped to ensure that Bush won the presidency in 2000 and now that Democrats are voting for Santorum in Michigan they'll help him win that state, but lose the nomination, thus ensuring that Romney wins the presidential election.

[Archigeek]

Eh, not my state but it is my opinion. I think it will turn off as many republicans as it will send democrats to the polls.

[Archigeek]

Umm.. Check your facts.. Michigan IS an Open primary. It's AZ that isn't.

Facts checked! And I'm right, though it's a bit more nuanced than that. Michigan is largely what I described, in that you have to pick a party before receiving a ballot. It is not an open primary. It is technically a closed primary as of this year, however, you need only decide which party's ballot you want, and can pick only one. Because Michigan does not require you to declare a party in order to vote, (only pick a ballot), they can't really do much else in the way of enforcing their closed primary. So my contention is that not that many people would go through the trouble, but they certainly could vote for either side if they wanted to. I think I've got it right. See link for details:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Public_FAQ_2-13-12_376851_7.pdf

[Parkbandit]

Eh, not my state but it is my opinion. I think it will turn off as many republicans as it will send democrats to the polls.

This.

After this primary season, it's obvious we need election reform in this country.

[Jarvan]

Facts checked! And I'm right, though it's a bit more nuanced than that. Michigan is largely what I described, in that you have to pick a party before receiving a ballot. It is not an open primary. It is technically a closed primary as of this year, however, you need only decide which party's ballot you want, and can pick only one. Because Michigan does not require you to declare a party in order to vote, (only pick a ballot), they can't really do much else in the way of enforcing their closed primary. So my contention is that not that many people would go through the trouble, but they certainly could vote for either side if they wanted to. I think I've got it right. See link for details:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/sos/Public_FAQ_2-13-12_376851_7.pdf

Read your link, and except for the fact that they CALL it a closed Primary, it's open.

Since there WAS no Dem primary tho apparently you could take your time out to show your support for Pres O, it's effectively open.

So, Michigan can call it anything they want, closed, sorta-closed, mostly-closed, we-are-not-sure-if-it's-closed-or-not Primary. But it is effectively Open.

[Archigeek]

Agreed mostly. They call it closed, but because they have other laws in place that don't allow them to ask your political affiliation at the poll and then only give you the ballot of your party, it is in effect open. This all assumes you are willing to go to the poll and when asked, "which slate do you want to vote for," say republican. Not the same question as "which party are you registered for" so definitely not the same as totally closed.

Definitely a strange situation.

I still maintain that the numbers who would go out and do that are pretty insignificant, and when combined with those who perhaps wouldn't have gone and voted but do just because they're pissed off that some democrats are voting... it's nearly a wash. But the law could be better.