California Teachers Upset Over Bilingual Pledge of Allegiance

[ClydeR]

A Republican activist is siding with several California teachers who argue that the Pledge of Allegiance should always be recited in English.

The Lamont School District in California is being criticized for allowing students to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in both Spanish and English. KGET.com reports that teachers are upset over the issue and call it an insult to the patriotic gesture.

Since 2002, the Pledge of Allegiance has been a bilingual task. Roughly 35 percent of students in the district participate in a bilingual program where they speak both English and Spanish. Principal Fred Molina of Alicante School says it is a way to include all cultures. However, teachers believe that reciting the Pledge in both languages disrespects the United States.

More... (http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=1496654)

The Pledge is a promise, and it's better to promise in English than in other languages.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Should we really give a shit if someone is pledging allegiance to the US in a different language? I'm honestly surprised they still do the pledge and some liberal fuck hasn't gotten it outlawed as well.

Good for the district to accomodate 1/3rd of their population, and good for the population to pledge to the country they live in. I don't see anything wrong here.

[Atlanteax]

Should we really give a shit if someone is pledging allegiance to the US in a different language? I'm honestly surprised they still do the pledge and some liberal fuck hasn't gotten it outlawed as well.

Good for the district to accomodate 1/3rd of their population, and good for the population to pledge to the country they live in. I don't see anything wrong here.

I'd rather it be said in English, but I'd be accommodating in that they *are* pledging to the US flag/nation ... as it shows desire to integrate into American society where presumably some level of expertise in English language will develop in the near future.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'd rather it be said in English, but I'd be accommodating in that they *are* pledging to the US flag/nation ... as it shows desire to integrate into American society where presumably some level of expertise in English language will develop in the near future.

Are you of the belief that if you live in the US you have to speak English?

[Atlanteax]

Are you of the belief that if you live in the US you have to speak English?

Or at least be fluent in it, if preferring to speak non-English at home or private settings.

[Latrinsorm]

Or at least be fluent in it, if preferring to speak non-English at home or private settings.Are you therefore for the deportation of Governor Perry?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Or at least be fluent in it, if preferring to speak non-English at home or private settings.

Why do you feel you have to be fluent in English to live in the US?

[Tgo01]

I don't think you have to know English if you live in the US. I don't think people should expect to be accommodated if they don't speak English though.

When I used to work for a call center I would get some bold callers who didn't speak English. At our department we would get a translator on the line for a three way conversation. Most people didn't mind but some of them outright demanded to speak to someone in my department who spoke Spanish or would get pissed that we were speaking English with them on the line and would hang up.

And yes I said Spanish because working there 2 years and having well over 100 calls from people who didn't speak English one call was from someone needing a German translator, one was from someone needing a Vietnamese translator and the rest needed a Spanish translator.

[Liagala]

Are you of the belief that if you live in the US you have to speak English?
I am of the belief that if you choose to live in a place, you should acquire at least a basic knowlege of the language and customs practiced there. In the same way that I would not deliberately ignore customs of dress by parading around in a bikini in Afghanistan, I would not deliberately ignore customs of speech by insisting that everyone speak English for me. If you deliberately avoid learning the language, the consequences are your own fault (consequences = no drivers' license, needing a friend/family member/paid translator to do anything "official," having no idea what's going on around you most times you leave your house, etc). Don't come here and expect the entire nation to cater to you because you didn't want to take advantage of the free options all over the place that will help you learn.

This doesn't mean that everyone who can't speak English in the US is bad, or that everyone must be fluent if they want to live here. Enough knowledge of the language to understand most of what you hear, and to get your point across, is generally sufficient. If someone has at least that much knowledge, it's proof that they put out some effort. If they happen to have the resources (financial or familial) to get everything translated for them, that's fine too. Not my preferred option, but it is at least using their own resources to do what they need to do, instead of expecting everyone else's time, effort, and money to be spent on them.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

According to the 2010 American Community Survey conducted by the United States Census Bureau (located here: http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_10_1YR_S1601&prodType=table)

Spanish is the primary language spoken at home by nearly 37 million people aged 5 or older. 45% of all U.S. Spanish speakers also speak English less than "very well", based on the self-assessment question.

What would you do with the 45% of the 37 million (16.7M people) who are not "very well" English speakers?


50.5 million people (16% of the US total population) are of latino or hispanic origin (source: http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-04.pdf).

I believe it's by the mid 2030's that hispanics will eclipse the population and become the majority. Will you in turn learn Spanish when you are in the minority?

[Parkbandit]

According to the 2010 American Community Survey conducted by the United States Census Bureau (located here: http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_10_1YR_S1601&prodType=table)

Spanish is the primary language spoken at home by nearly 37 million people aged 5 or older. 45% of all U.S. Spanish speakers also speak English less than "very well", based on the self-assessment question.

What would you do with the 45% of the 37 million (16.7M people) who are not "very well" English speakers?


50.5 million people (16% of the US total population) are of latino or hispanic origin (source: http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-04.pdf).

I believe it's by the mid 2030's that hispanics will eclipse the population and become the majority. Will you in turn learn Spanish when you are in the minority?

They fucking know what we're saying.. they just use the "No hablo inglés" as an excuse not to trim palms!

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm just playing devil's advocate really - my view though is anyone who thinks "speak english or get out" is fairly close minded.

[Deathravin]

gtfo

[Warriorbird]

Are you therefore for the deportation of Governor Perry?

/thread a while ago

[Liagala]

What would you do with the 45% of the 37 million (16.7M people) who are not "very well" English speakers?
I don't ask for "very well." I'm okay with "enough to squeak by, even if I do need to add hand gestures sometimes." Whatever percentage can't speak English well enough to land in that category, I'd point them toward the nearest free classes. If they go, awesome. If they don't, screw 'em. Anything they miss out on from that point forward due to lack of understanding is their own fault*.

*That's the way I think it ought to be, anyway. In reality, I'd probably still try to help them get translation, while pushing them toward classes. The longer they went without even attempting to learn however, the more annoyed I'd get and the less I'd help.



I believe it's by the mid 2030's that hispanics will eclipse the population and become the majority. Will you in turn learn Spanish when you are in the minority?
So there's this German couple. They own a house in a town that has a lot of other German residents there. They pass the house to their kid, who passes it to his own kid in turn. As this grandchild lives his life in the house, neighbors move in, neighbors move out. It happens that most of the neighbors moving in are of Italian descent. Somewhere around 60 years old, he looks down the street and realizes that 70% of the people nearby are either immigrants from Italy or their children. Should he now learn Italian?

[Bobmuhthol]

So there's this German couple. They own a house in a town that has a lot of other German residents there. They pass the house to their kid, who passes it to his own kid in turn. As this grandchild lives his life in the house, neighbors move in, neighbors move out. It happens that most of the neighbors moving in are of Italian descent. Somewhere around 60 years old, he looks down the street and realizes that 70% of the people nearby are either immigrants from Italy or their children. Should he now learn Italian?

Horrible argument.

[Liagala]

Horrible argument.
Does it really differ all that much from what SHM asked?

[Bobmuhthol]

Probably not, but I got turned off when he referred to good English speakers as well English speakers, so I stopped paying attention.

The argument about learning Spanish because there are a lot of Hispanic people in your country is totally insane; an Hispanic child is not born speaking Spanish, and they have no genetic predisposition to learning Spanish. If their parents elect not to expose them to English, too bad. The United States is an English speaking country.

[Gelston]

English actually isn't the official language of the United States, only states (and not all of them) have official languages they have set. Some states even have official languages that in addition to English. New Mexico for instance has the official languages of English and Spanish, by State law. There are a few states and territories as well that have their official languages as English and Spanish or other languages.

The most commonly used language in the US is English, and if you don't know it you are really shooting yourself in the foot, and to become a naturalized citizen of the US you did need to speak and understand English.

I'd say the easiest solution, we all (worldwide) learn Esperanto.

[Bobmuhthol]

English actually isn't the official language of the United States
You phrased this as if you were correcting someone, but I don't see anyone making that argument.

[Liagala]

I'd say the easiest solution, we all (worldwide) learn Esperanto.
I could definitely get behind a worldwide language. People learn that one because it's the language to learn, and whatever cultural language is also spoken nearby.

[4a6c1]

This thread is like an alternate universe. SHM arguing for the Mexicans. Lia arguing for the Nationalists. Atlanteaux is still himself though. God Bless you Atlanteaux. In this scary confusing place you're my guiding star.

[Gelston]

You phrased this as if you were correcting someone, but I don't see anyone making that argument.

I'm sure there were people thinking it was, which is a common misconception.

[AnticorRifling]

The chick I caught boosting last night claimed to not speak English. She still went to jail.

[Parkbandit]

The chick I caught boosting last night claimed to not speak English. She still went to jail.

Racist. Why do you hate minorities so much?

[AnticorRifling]

Racist. Why do you hate minorities so much?

I heard you have to be a minority to not speak English. BOOOOOOOOOM LAWYERED!

[Stanley Burrell]

I don't know. Add Salsa beats on the PA system and have nachos with red, white and blue colored cheese-wiz to set things straight. I tried to pull this off in the Kindergarden but somehow I ended up mooning the principal. Fuck it, it was part of the plan. I ... actually did moon the principal in pre-K. Sieg heil Frito Bandito Uncle Sam.