Full withdrawl from Iraq

[g++]

Obama has called back all troops for January.

Hooray?

[Keller]

Just in time for campaigning.

Should have happened two years ago.

[4a6c1]

God that asshole. Really? REALLY REALLY?? He had to wait all this time to do it like it was his last "approval rating" card to play. And it will get him the re-election of course but still.....what an asshole.

[Thickbeard]

Took him long enough.

[Hulkein]

Obvious political move but I am glad it is being done.

[Fallen]

Jesus Christ. Finally.

Also, I couldn't find an appropriate meme, so ...this:

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llyrk5pJA21qfqmlto1_400.jpg

[Rinualdo]

Was it political? I thought the administration had been negotiating to keep some troops in Iraq for a while now, and a week or so ago the Iraqis rejected the plan. As I recall, it mostly centered on them refusing to allow US troops immunity from prosecution. The original SOFA and timeline came from Bush I believe?

Either way, it should have been done years ago.

edit:
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Official-Obama-to-announce-Iraq-troop-withdrawal-2229861.php


The American withdrawal by the end of 2011 was sealed in a deal between the two countries when George W. Bush was president.

[Hulkein]

Obvious political move is obvious.

[Warriorbird]

Political. Still needed.

[Rinualdo]

Obvious political move is obvious.

The timeline set by Bush in 2008 was political for Obama? Really?

I ask this sincerely, walk me through how this could be a political move?

In 2008, Bush makes an agreement with the Iraqis to keep troops there through 2011. The current administration and DoD have been negotiating to keep troops in the area, but the Iraqis refuse to extend the SOFA agreement which would open US troops up to prosecution. Since a new agreement could not be reached, the 2008 agreement has to be honored. In mid-October, it appears there is no longer any time to continue negotiations, so the announcement is made that they're all coming home. If they waited any longer, an orderly withdraw would not have been possible.

I just don't see how this is related to politics over a year before the election.

No PB, this isn't a defense of Obama. One of his platform promises was to get troops home and his record on that is atrocious. I'm sure there are campaign promises here he lied about.

[Parkbandit]

The timeline set by Bush in 2008 was political for Obama? Really?

I ask this sincerely, walk me through how this could be a political move?

In 2008, Bush makes an agreement with the Iraqis to keep troops there through 2011. The current administration and DoD have been negotiating to keep troops in the area, but the Iraqis refuse to extend the SOFA agreement which would open US troops up to prosecution. Since a new agreement could not be reached, the 2008 agreement has to be honored. In mid-October, it appears there is no longer any time to continue negotiations, so the announcement is made that they're all coming home. If they waited any longer, an orderly withdraw would not have been possible.

I just don't see how this is related to politics over a year before the election.

No PB, this isn't a defense of Obama. One of his platform promises was to get troops home and his record on that is atrocious. I'm sure there are campaign promises here he lied about.


Easy chump... I actually agree with you. It was just last week that Iraq was trying to negotiate with us to keep a small force there.. but wouldn't grant them the immunity that they currently have and we told them no.

I think this took longer than it needed to take, but I don't see this as some "October Surprise" like most here do.

[WRoss]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_yh0p83tykh0/TT2n1zhnTBI/AAAAAAAAAHo/dMtu6JF7Lbw/s1600/barack_obama_smoking.jpeg

[Hulkein]

Good ole Barry Soetoro.

[Androidpk]

I say it's about time, we shouldn't have been there to begin with.

[Ceyrin]

It's about time.

Hopefully this is the first step of the next phase of a larger and more comprehensive middle eastern management campaign.

Operation Desert of Glass. Or, as I like to fondly think of it, the Jihad's Jihad.

Like my momma always used to say, "Fuck around, lay around".

[Methais]

God that asshole. Really? REALLY REALLY?? He had to wait all this time to do it like it was his last "approval rating" card to play. And it will get him the re-election of course but still.....what an asshole.

http://www.fybertech.com/4thread/v_55056307/1270693145305.jpg

[4a6c1]

http://www.fybertech.com/4thread/v_55056307/1270693145305.jpg

http://zodiblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/edgar-bug_0001.jpg

[Parkbandit]

http://zodiblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/edgar-bug_0001.jpg

http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/04/will_smith_mib.jpg

[Stanley Burrell]

http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/7/2010/04/will_smith_mib.jpg

http://i.tbs.com/v5cache/TBS/Images/Dynamic/i42/freshprince_carlton_1024x768_121020070617.jpg

[Stanley Burrell]

We might be in a slightly sticky situation, barely, if we have to continue operations where our assets/personel/civilians become compromised ... but I think we've bombed the shit out of enough of it (Iraq) that all further covert operations can probably have the 'deny involvement' line thrown out with flawlessness. Wonder how much heavy machinery we're going to keep in the area.

[Tgo01]

We'll be fucked if we have a SEAL team operating that becomes compromised somehow ... but I think we've bombed the shit out of enough of it that all further covert operations can probably have the 'deny involvement' line thrown out with flawlessness. Wonder how much heavy machinery we're going to keep in the area.

What movie(s) have you been watching lately?

[Back]

Easy chump... I actually agree with you. It was just last week that Iraq was trying to negotiate with us to keep a small force there.. but wouldn't grant them the immunity that they currently have and we told them no.

I think this took longer than it needed to take, but I don't see this as some "October Surprise" like most here do.

Agreed. Anything he does is going to be seen as a political move. Sure, some of it is posturing, but it is also doing his job.

[Parkbandit]

Agreed. Anything he does is going to be seen as a political move. Sure, some of it is posturing, but it is also doing his job.

This forces me to rethink my position...

[Stanley Burrell]

What movie(s) have you been watching lately?

I think the most recent movie I watched was X-men: Origins.

[sst]

It's good and bad. I'm happy were getting out but i greatly fear the Iranian influence in the current government. I hope they hold onto their autonomy and so not turn into a further proxy for Iranian aggression in the middle east, something American forces in the country could have held at bay.

[Kembal]

Easy chump... I actually agree with you. It was just last week that Iraq was trying to negotiate with us to keep a small force there.. but wouldn't grant them the immunity that they currently have and we told them no.

I think this took longer than it needed to take, but I don't see this as some "October Surprise" like most here do.

I think PB and Rinauldo have it right (wait, is it possible for that juxtaposition to exist?). Logical consequence of the breakdown in negotiations and thus honoring the agreement Bush made back in '08.

Anyway, al-Maliki is going to have a very good shot at becoming the next dictator of Iraq now, if he wants to pursue it.

[Androidpk]

It's good and bad. I'm happy were getting out but i greatly fear the Iranian influence in the current government. I hope they hold onto their autonomy and so not turn into a further proxy for Iranian aggression in the middle east, something American forces in the country could have held at bay.

I hope they hold onto it as well. US troops may be leaving but we certainly will be leaving them quite a lot of firepower..

[crb]

Was it political? I thought the administration had been negotiating to keep some troops in Iraq for a while now, and a week or so ago the Iraqis rejected the plan. As I recall, it mostly centered on them refusing to allow US troops immunity from prosecution. The original SOFA and timeline came from Bush I believe?

Either way, it should have been done years ago.

edit:
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Official-Obama-to-announce-Iraq-troop-withdrawal-2229861.php
This is correct. Obama actually wanted to keep troops there longer, and the generals and pentagon definitely did. He couldn't reach a diplomatic compromise with the Iraqis though (rofl), so as per the SOFA he has to pull out.

Lets just hope Iraq becomes a stable friendly democracy now, and that this all wasn't for nothing.

[Stanley Burrell]

The Pentagon's agenda will not in any way whatsoever falter due to any degree of political rhetoric.

"The Pentagon... The Pentagon! The Pentagon can, 'cause we something-something-something," I forget the words.

[Latrinsorm]

President Obama has:
-ended the war in Iraq
-ended DADT
-captured and killed Osama bin Laden

And everyone hates him! Talk about your long odds.

[sst]

President Obama has:
-ended the war in Iraq
-ended DADT
-captured and killed Osama bin Laden

And everyone hates him! Talk about your long odds.

Well, to be fare, the timeline for the IZ war was setup and entered into between President Bush and the Iraqi Government.

Osama's end came at the hands of a decade of hard work by the CIA and Military intelligence units.

He did end DADT.

[Lord Orbstar]

The surge ended the war. his indecisiveness and iraqi internal politics have made it a less than smooth.

This was not positive. edited out my asshole initial post. sorry.

he did make the call to kill osama and anwar al-waki. good job and courageous.

[sst]

he let fags serve with Pride. bad call...just wait till the flamboyant bitches join and push for more change. Call me narrow and i will call you bereft of morality on this issue. iknow this is a no middle ground issue. dadt tried to be middle ground.


I personally didn't agree with the end of DADT, but you sir are a fucking moron.

[4a6c1]

he let fags serve with Pride. bad call...just wait till the flamboyant bitches join and push for more change.


................

lay auff crakrok?!

[BriarFox]

President Obama has:
-ended the war in Iraq
-ended DADT
-captured and killed Osama bin Laden

And everyone hates him! Talk about your long odds.

He needs a better publicist. Really.

[Androidpk]

he let fags serve with Pride. bad call...just wait till the flamboyant bitches join and push for more change. Call me narrow and i will call you bereft of morality on this issue. iknow this is a no middle ground issue. dadt tried to be middle ground.


I would call you confused and say you are the one bereft morality.

[4a6c1]

I'm curious of those who voted "We will regret this." - what they are thinking, etc. Why?

[sst]

I'm curious of those who voted "We will regret this." - what they are thinking, etc. Why?


this is why


It's good and bad. I'm happy were getting out but i greatly fear the Iranian influence in the current government. I hope they hold onto their autonomy and so not turn into a further proxy for Iranian aggression in the middle east, something American forces in the country could have held at bay.

[Androidpk]

I'd say the long term effects of the U.S not having a military presence there will be much better than them being there. It isn't like we won't be there in some form, State Department will still be there in huge numbers.

[sst]

I'd say the long term effects of the U.S not having a military presence there will be much better than them being there. It isn't like we won't be there in some form, State Department will still be there in huge numbers.

Which is zero deterrence to Al Sadr and his Iranian backers. I wish they would have let us kill him when we had the chances.

[4a6c1]

Dave dont you think that without our larger and divided resources stretched so thin the DoD will have more money for precision ops?

Continued occupation on a grand scale makes no sense. It never did. This war was ridiculous from the start. And I really dont understand anyone wanting us to stay there. Iran can be controlled in other ways.

[sst]

They are not talking about a grand scale occupation just a small force approximately 15k soldiers. It will keep the politicians honest and will box in Iran between Qatar, Bahrain, Iraq and Afghanistan, putting them in a fairly uncomfortable position, which would act as a big deterrent to any more of their attempts to project their influence in the region.

[Androidpk]

That's 15k too many. We don't need US troops in Iraq to contain Iran.

[sst]

That's 15k too many. We don't need US troops in Iraq to contain Iran.

We do need them there to deter their influence in the country. It is systemic right now and will cause a lot of problems for us in the future if it is not contained and eradicated.

[Warriorbird]

We do need them there to deter their influence in the country. It is systemic right now and will cause a lot of problems for us in the future if it is not contained and eradicated.

Gosh. Maybe folks should've listened to this complaint years ago before we empowered the Shiites of Iraq.

[Stanley Burrell]

Gosh. Maybe folks should've listened to this complaint years ago before we empowered the Shiites of Iraq.

This is why the continued troop deployment that no one knows about is going to continue for the next ~25-30 years. We need listening posts.

[4a6c1]

This is why the continued troop deployment that no one knows about is going to continue for the next ~25-30 years. We need listening posts.

And this is also why China is genetically engineering panda bears to look like dogs. Because sometimes you just have to MAKE EVIL BEAR DOGS reality.

[Stanley Burrell]

And this is also why China is genetically engineering panda bears to look like dogs. Because sometimes you just have to MAKE EVIL BEAR DOGS reality.

I bet if you had really l33t data tracking skillz, you could probably find a financial tie between the contracts in Iraq pawned off to China and some sort of tangential money trail that involved the pandogs.

And that's how my brain thinks. Edit: On all levels. It is my sole purpose in life to track currency and its investment into panda dog research.

[Ceyrin]

I bet if you had really l33t data tracking skillz, you could probably find a financial tie between the contracts in Iraq pawned off to China and some sort of tangential money trail that involved the pandogs.

And that's how my brain thinks. Edit: On all levels. It is my sole purpose in life to track currency and its investment into panda dog research.

IT ALL LEADS BACK TO WALL STREET!

[RichardCranium]

I'm curious of those who voted "We will regret this." - what they are thinking, etc. Why?



http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k15/troydenh/moms_minivan.jpg

[4a6c1]

I bet if you had really l33t data tracking skillz, you could probably find a financial tie between the contracts in Iraq pawned off to China and some sort of tangential money trail that involved the pandogs.

And that's how my brain thinks. Edit: On all levels. It is my sole purpose in life to track currency and its investment into panda dog research.



Panda dog says,"Stop. Hammertime."

[pabstblueribbon]

When I make sexy time, I withdraw completely.

[Thickbeard]

When I fuck, I withdraw completely.

Emotionally or physically?

[pabstblueribbon]

Metaphysically.

[4a6c1]

When I fuck, I withdraw completely.

Well that ruins it for me. I always imagined you would blow smoke and make choo choo noises.

[Thickbeard]

Metaphysically.

That is beyond deep, man. That is Metadeep.

[Gan]

When I fuck, I withdraw completely.

Sucks to be you.

[pabstblueribbon]

Sucks to be you.

Your wife was thankful.

CHOO CHOOOO.

[4a6c1]

knew it

[Androidpk]

When I make sexy time, I withdraw completely.

Pull out method does not work.

[g++]

It's good and bad. I'm happy were getting out but i greatly fear the Iranian influence in the current government. I hope they hold onto their autonomy and so not turn into a further proxy for Iranian aggression in the middle east, something American forces in the country could have held at bay.

I dont see why we would even care about Iranian influence in Iraq once we dont have troops there? If we spent half as much time worrying about getting our own shit together as we did trying to police other countries we would be alot better off in my opinion.

[sst]

I dont see why we would even care about Iranian influence in Iraq once we dont have troops there? If we spent half as much time worrying about getting our own shit together as we did trying to police other countries we would be alot better off in my opinion.

You have a very narrow view of the world so it does not surprise me you don't understand. Iran is attempting to become a nuclear power and if they do they will be the only one in the region (minus the Israelis). Our delaying tactics will only go so far and eventually, they will acquire the needed materials and expertise to complete a nuclear device. They will not have the ability to reach us through "conventional" means but there are many other avenues to deliver a payload.

Additionally, the world runs on fossil fuels and we need the market to remain stable to maintain a competitive edge. The instability created by an Iranian influence Iraqi Government would have drastic consequences for our future. I'm familiar with the view points of the GCC countries on Iran, and there is a reason they are ALL allied with the U.S.

On top of that, for personal reasons, I have lost too many friends to Iranian made/sold weapons and they have been walking around with practical immunity for their actions due to the naivete of people like you. The inaction on our governments part has emboldened the hard core corners of their military and government and it will only get worse until something is done to remind them who is the top dog. There would be very little outcry from the Arab states in the area if we slap them around a few times.

blah blah blah, I could go on but by this point you're likely foaming at the mouth calling me names in your head so I won't waste the time.

[Keller]

For the people that said, "we will regret this" - were you answering the question, "we will regret going into Iraq?"

[g++]

You have a very narrow view of the world so it does not surprise me you don't understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem



Iran is attempting to become a nuclear power and if they do they will be the only one in the region (minus the Israelis). Our delaying tactics will only go so far and eventually, they will acquire the needed materials and expertise to complete a nuclear device. They will not have the ability to reach us through "conventional" means but there are many other avenues to deliver a payload.


How is our stationing troops in other middle eastern countries a deterrent?



On top of that, for personal reasons, I have lost too many friends to Iranian made/sold weapons and they have been walking around with practical immunity for their actions due to the naivete of people like you. The inaction on our governments part has emboldened the hard core corners of their military and government and it will only get worse until something is done to remind them who is the top dog. There would be very little outcry from the Arab states in the area if we slap them around a few times.

Im pretty sure your friends would be alive if they were at home. I certainly didnt kill them.



blah blah blah, I could go on but by this point you're likely foaming at the mouth calling me names in your head so I won't waste the time.


...

lol

[Ceyrin]

For the people that said, "we will regret this" - were you answering the question, "we will regret going into Iraq?"

I would like to go out on a limb and state that if they were incapable of understanding the question, and the two choices, or simply didn't read enough to make an informed choice, further soliciting their opinon is likely a waste of time.

[sst]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem




How is our stationing troops in other middle eastern countries a deterrent?

... Use your critical thinking skills.




Im pretty sure your friends would be alive if they were at home. I certainly didnt kill them.

Of course they would have been alive, and who said anything about you killing them. It does not take away the fact that Iran has been fighting a proxy war against us using Shia Militias in Iraq and supplying arms to the Talaban and other various terrorist entities in Afghanistan.

[g++]

I just dont see a reason a prolonged expensive proxy war against a foe we would annihilate in a straight up fight is in our best interest. My point being that we dont need to station troops directly next door to Iran to have influence. We could use diplomatic channels, our navy and airforce, and the military installations we have in countries with mutual self interest like Saudi Arabia instead of occupying Iraq. If anything I think our stationing of troops in the region has given Iran leverage over us because they can take pot shots at our military not the other way round.




On top of that, for personal reasons, I have lost too many friends to Iranian made/sold weapons and they have been walking around with practical immunity for their actions due to the naivete of people like you


Transitively it seemed like you were saying that to me but if not thats fine.

[~Rocktar~]

I just dont see a reason a prolonged expensive proxy war against a foe we would annihilate in a straight up fight is in our best interest. My point being that we dont need to station troops directly next door to Iran to have influence. We could use diplomatic channels, our navy and airforce, and the military installations we have in countries with mutual self interest like Saudi Arabia instead of occupying Iraq.

Because that's been so effective to date.

[Warriorbird]

You have a very narrow view of the world so it does not surprise me you don't understand. Iran is attempting to become a nuclear power and if they do they will be the only one in the region (minus the Israelis). Our delaying tactics will only go so far and eventually, they will acquire the needed materials and expertise to complete a nuclear device. They will not have the ability to reach us through "conventional" means but there are many other avenues to deliver a payload.

Additionally, the world runs on fossil fuels and we need the market to remain stable to maintain a competitive edge. The instability created by an Iranian influence Iraqi Government would have drastic consequences for our future. I'm familiar with the view points of the GCC countries on Iran, and there is a reason they are ALL allied with the U.S.

On top of that, for personal reasons, I have lost too many friends to Iranian made/sold weapons and they have been walking around with practical immunity for their actions due to the naivete of people like you. The inaction on our governments part has emboldened the hard core corners of their military and government and it will only get worse until something is done to remind them who is the top dog. There would be very little outcry from the Arab states in the area if we slap them around a few times.

blah blah blah, I could go on but by this point you're likely foaming at the mouth calling me names in your head so I won't waste the time.

Given this, why did we give the country to Shiites?

[sst]

Given this, why did we give the country to Shiites?

Democracy, sometimes it's kinda of a bitch that way.

[Parkbandit]

I dont see why we would even care about Iranian influence in Iraq once we dont have troops there? If we spent half as much time worrying about getting our own shit together as we did trying to police other countries we would be alot better off in my opinion.

Take a history course.

[Androidpk]

Take a history course.

Look up the fall of the Roman empire.

[Methais]

I'm curious of those who voted "We will regret this." - what they are thinking, etc. Why?



Because if things turn to shit again after, we'll have to hear more Obama blaming it on Bush. And that means he'll have to make a speech, which means we'll have to look at his stupid honky face as diarrhea pours out of his mouth.

[g++]

Take a history course.

Are you saying we should start a hoplite army? If you are Im totally in.

[Parkbandit]

Are you saying we should start a hoplite army? If you are Im totally in.

No. I was merely responding to the post I quoted of yours, saying you don't know why.

There are plenty of reasons throughout history why we should care what happens in other areas of the world.

[Ceyrin]

No. I was merely responding to the post I quoted of yours, saying you don't know why.

There are plenty of reasons throughout history why we should care what happens in other areas of the world.

Like global warming, and greenhouse gasses?

[sst]

Like global warming, and greenhouse gasses?

Don't forget about Acid Rain.... Whatever happened to acid rain... didn't that used to be the big scare?

[Lord Orbstar]

Don't forget about Acid Rain.... Whatever happened to acid rain... didn't that used to be the big scare?

And bees from Africa. and some archduke getting whacked in Serbia. and some uprising in 1979. And some minor ass political party that hangs out in beer halls. And some mexican drug dealers seeming to organize to fill the Columbian vaccuum. And some French expeditioanry force getting overrun in some mountain surrounded jungle valley. And some northern muslim dude getting blown up by a fake cameraman-journalist. And some spaniard getting unfairly accused of sinking some ship. and some democrats loosening lending rules by force for people that actually hav no way of making a mortgage.

etc ad nauseum.

[Back]

Remember that hole in the ozone business? Whatever happened with that?

Oh, right, we actually did something about it and reversed the damage we had done. Go figure.

[Lord Orbstar]

Oh and that fully operational Deathstar.

[Jack]

Remember that hole in the ozone business? Whatever happened with that?

Oh, right, we actually did something about it and reversed the damage we had done. Go figure.

Reversed the damage?

http://www.irishweatheronline.com/news/environment/climate-news/noaa-reports-ninth-largest-antarctic-ozone-hole-on-record/42493.html

http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/10/21/scientist-speaks-out-after-finding-record-ozone-hole-over-canadian-arctic/

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/10/arctic-ozone-layer-fell-to-unprecedented-low-in-2011.html

[Parkbandit]

Remember that hole in the ozone business? Whatever happened with that?

Oh, right, we actually did something about it and reversed the damage we had done. Go figure.

lulwut?

[sst]

Remember that hole in the ozone business? Whatever happened with that?

Oh, right, we actually did something about it and reversed the damage we had done. Go figure.

Oh you mean the hole that is now bigger than it ever was before?

[Ceyrin]

lulwut?

YOU HAVE BEEN TROLLED!

[Latrinsorm]

Look up the fall of the Roman empire.What does the death of Augustus have to do with this?

[Parkbandit]

YOU HAVE BEEN TROLLED!

No.. Backlash is dumb enough to actually believe what he posted. He will come back and say "Oh I wuz just kidding".. but he wasn't.

[Ceyrin]

No.. Backlash is dumb enough to actually believe what he posted. He will come back and say "Oh I wuz just kidding".. but he wasn't.

I HAVE BEEN REVERSE TROLLED!

=(

[Gan]

Your wife was thankful.

CHOO CHOOOO.

:clap:

[Back]

I guess ozone hole recovery is an esoteric subject...

From NASA. http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2006/26may_ozone/

Good News and a Puzzle



Earth's ozone layer appears to be on the road to recovery.

(http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2006/05/26/26may_ozone_resources/story.m3u)


May 26, 2006: Think of the ozone layer as Earth's sunglasses, protecting life on the surface from the harmful glare of the sun's strongest ultraviolet rays, which can cause skin cancer and other maladies.
http://science.nasa.gov/media/medialibrary/2006/05/26/26may_ozone_resources/ozonehole_med.jpgPeople were understandably alarmed, then, in the 1980s when scientists noticed that manmade chemicals in the atmosphere were destroying this layer. Governments quickly enacted an international treaty, called the Montreal Protocol, to ban ozone-destroying gases such as CFCs then found in aerosol cans and air conditioners.


Right: The Antarctic ozone hole.



Today, almost 20 years later, reports continue of large ozone holes opening over Antarctica, allowing dangerous UV rays through to Earth's surface. Indeed, the 2005 ozone hole was one of the biggest ever, spanning 24 million sq km in area, nearly the size of North America.
Listening to this news, you might suppose that little progress has been made. You'd be wrong.



While the ozone hole over Antarctica continues to open wide, the ozone layer around the rest of the planet seems to be on the mend. For the last 9 years, worldwide ozone has remained roughly constant, halting the decline first noticed in the 1980s.

[Parkbandit]

No.. Backlash is dumb enough to actually believe what he posted.

I hate being the guy that says "I told you so"... but come on...

[Ceyrin]

I hate being the guy that says "I told you so"... but come on...

http://static.starcitygames.com/sales/cardscans/MAGICE/portent.jpg

[Stanley Burrell]

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1897/imprettysuretedwilliams.jpg

[4a6c1]

I have no idea what's happening in this thread but shiny hatbands make me uncomfortable.

[Stanley Burrell]

I have no idea what's happening in this thread but shiny hatbands make me uncomfortable.

Well, even I didn't predict this topic would go off-topic enough into geology. So, since there was some talk about the ozone, I just linked a picture of Ozone.

[Atlanteax]

You have a very narrow view of the world so it does not surprise me you don't understand. Iran is attempting to become a nuclear power and if they do they will be the only one in the region (minus the Israelis). Our delaying tactics will only go so far and eventually, they will acquire the needed materials and expertise to complete a nuclear device. They will not have the ability to reach us through "conventional" means but there are many other avenues to deliver a payload.
Most recent post/thread I could find referencing Iran's nuclear program.

.

Update:
Iran: Country Will Not Participate In Middle East Nuclear Talks
November 18, 2011 1754 GMT
Iran will not participate in International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) talks the week of Nov. 20, during which Middle Eastern countries will discuss means of achieving a nuclear weapons-free world, Iran's ambassador to the IAEA said Nov. 18, Reuters reported.
Probably because they intend to weaponize their nuclear program...

[Hulkein]

If we don't do anything Israel will smoke them.

[Parkbandit]

If we don't do anything Israel will smoke them.

I'm ok with that.

[Androidpk]

I have no idea what's happening in this thread but shiny hatbands make me uncomfortable.

Does your pimp wear one.

[4a6c1]

Of course, dosnt yours?!

[Androidpk]

Of course I wear one.

[sst]

If we don't do anything Israel will smoke them.

They don't have the military capability to effectively conduct a strike without excessive causalities.

[Rinualdo]

They don't have the military capability to effectively conduct a strike without excessive causalities.

I disagree.

[sst]

I disagree.

Please expound as to how Israel will defeat the Iranian anti aircraft defense systems and what they have which can penetrate the passive defenses at the various fortified nuclear research sites. I'm generally curious as to your knowledge and sources for this information.

[4a6c1]

Answer: Mossad.

Source: I watch NCIS.

[Rinualdo]

Please expound as to how Israel will defeat the Iranian anti aircraft defense systems and what they have which can penetrate the passive defenses at the various fortified nuclear research sites. I'm generally curious as to your knowledge and sources for this information.

Iranian IADS are a joke. Pilot proficiency in their 25year old aircraft even more so. Should Israel desire, they would mow through Iranian defensive systems in a matter of hours.

That said, Israel won't attack Iran.

[Parkbandit]

In what could be totally unrelated news...


Boeing delivers first batch of 30,000-pound bombs to Air Force
The Massive Ordnance Penetrator — the Air Force has ordered 20 from Boeing — is nearly five tons heavier than any other bomb in the military's arsenal and is made to pulverize underground targets.

Aerospace giant Boeing Co. has delivered the first batch of 30,000-pound bombs, each nearly five tons heavier than anything else in the military's arsenal, to the U.S. Air Force to pulverize underground enemy hide-outs.

At a total cost of about $314 million, the military has developed and ordered 20 of the GPS-guided bombs, called Massive Ordnance Penetrators. They are designed to be dropped on targets by the Boeing-made B-52 Stratofortress long-range bomber or Northrop Grumman Corp.'s B-2 stealth bomber.

In an age of new emphasis on drones and lightweight weaponry, the Air Force's purchase highlights the Pentagon's ongoing need for defense contractors to build the kinds of big bombs and other heavy-duty ordnance they have produced for decades.

Packed with more than 5,300 pounds of explosives and more than 20 feet long, the giant bunker-busting bombs were tested at White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico, the site of the first atomic bomb test during World War II.

Earlier this month, Brig. Gen. Scott Vander Hamm, who oversees the B-2 fleet at Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri, told Air Force Magazine that there is "no other weapon that can get after those hard and deeply buried targets" like the Massive Ordnance Penetrator. It "is specifically designed to go after very dense targets … where enemies are putting things that the president of the United States wants to hold at risk."

Citing national security concerns, the Pentagon hasn't allowed Boeing to comment about the program. But the company's past news releases and publicly disclosed Air Force contract announcements indicate that Boeing developed and built the massive bomb at its Phantom Works facilities in St. Louis, where the company works on top-secret projects.

Although illustrations and models of the bomb have been made public, no photos have been released. But the Air Force did disclose that it took delivery of the weapon in September, along with a few other details.

The weapon's explosive power is 10 times greater than its bunker-buster predecessor, the BLU-109. And it is nearly five tons heavier than the 22,600-pound GBU-43 MOAB surface bomb, sometimes called the "mother of all bombs."

"The Massive Ordnance Penetrator is a weapon system designed to accomplish a difficult, complicated mission of reaching and destroying our adversaries' weapons of mass destruction located in well-protected facilities," Lt. Col. Melinda F. Morgan, a Pentagon spokeswoman, said in a statement.

Experts took note of the fact that the military disclosed delivery of the new bunker-busting bomb less than a week after a United Nations agency warned that Iran was secretly working to develop a nuclear weapon. That country is known to have hidden nuclear complexes that are fortified with steel and concrete, and buried under mountains.

"Heck of a coincidence, isn't it?" said John Pike, director of Globalsecurity.org, a website for military policy research. "The military hasn't said what underground facility they need to blow up with this thing. Whether it's in Iran or North Korea or somewhere else, I don't know. But they've been asking for this weapon for years."

When U.S. forces initially went looking for Osama bin Laden among the caves in Afghanistan, they discovered the locations were deeply buried and would be difficult to penetrate with existing bombs. The soldiers' concerns were supported years later in Iraq when military personnel came across underground tunnel systems belonging to Saddam Hussein.

In 2004, a Pentagon science board task force issued a report called "Future Strategic Strike Forces." In it, the task force said that existing non-nuclear weapons were too weak and recommended that a new weapon be developed "to improve conventional attack effectiveness against deep, expansive, underground tunnel facilities."

"Our past test experience has shown that 2,000-pound penetrators carrying 500 pounds of high explosive are relatively ineffective against tunnels, even when skipped directly into the tunnel entrance," the report said. "Instead, several thousand pounds of high explosives coupled to the tunnel are needed to blow down blast doors and propagate a lethal air blast throughout a typical tunnel complex."

By 2009, with concerns about Iran's and North Korea's missile capabilities reaching new highs, the Pentagon said there was an "urgent operational need" to speed up the weapon development process.

The Air Force and the Defense Threat Reduction Agency conducted tests at White Sands, and Boeing delivered the first Massive Ordnance Penetrator this fall. Additional deliveries are expected to be completed by 2013.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/16/business/la-fi-bunker-buster-bomb-20111117

Psst.. hey Israel... you wanna buy a few of these??