New Rule Means No More Last Meals on Death Row

[ClydeR]

One of the symptoms of what is wrong with this country is the practice of allowing people on death row to choose their last meal before being executed. Ice cream. Steak. Lobster. Peanut butter and jelly.

Why do we even feed these people at all on the day of their execution?

Texas is, yet again, leading by example. From now on, death row inmates in Texas will not be allowed to choose their final meal.


"Effective immediately, this practice has been terminated," Livingston said in a two-paragraph letter to the senator. "Prior to execution, death row offenders will now receive the same meal served to other offenders on the unit."

More... (http://lubbockonline.com/interact/blog-post/enriquerangel/2011-09-22/no-more-big-and-expensive-last-meals-death-row-inmates)

This is going to restore a lot of popular support for the death penalty.

[Androidpk]

Last meal, alcoholic beverage and a conjugal visit.

[Tgo01]

Not to mention Texas saving over 100 dollars a year!

[Gan]

They should skip the last meal period. That way there's less mess.

[Keller]

Texas - leading America from behind.

[AnticorRifling]

They should skip the last meal period. That way there's less mess.

And the trials too, they just slow things down!

[Gelston]

If the person to be executed gave his victim a last meal of their choice, I think he/she should be allowed.

[Keller]

If the person to be executed gave his victim a last meal of their choice, I think he/she should be allowed.

Most victims choose most of their meals. They don't need special dispensation from the perp.

[AnticorRifling]

Most victims choose most of their meals. They don't need special dispensation from the perp.

They probably did choose their last meal, they just didn't know it would be their last.

[AnticorRifling]

Fuck you Keller.

[Androidpk]

Unless the perp is force-feeding some meat.

[Keller]

They probably did choose their last meal, they just didn't know it would be their last.

I'm just showing how retarded Gelston's point is.

[Keller]

The person to be executed should only be given a fair trial if he/she gave his victim a fair trial.

[Tgo01]

Why are so many people on death row even allowed to eat while awaiting execution? Did any of them allow their victims to eat?

[Cephalopod]

The last meal for all death row inmates should be cock.

[AnticorRifling]

The last meal for all death row inmates should be cock.

Coq au Vin?

[Cephalopod]

Coq au Vin?

If that's where you like it, sure.

[Asha]

Bet they wish they hadn't murdered now.

[Gan]

And the trials too, they just slow things down!

Now you're jumping the shark...

[Latrinsorm]

Bet they wish they hadn't murdered now.I found this post clever and amusing.

[4a6c1]

Yes. We are TAKING THEIR LIVES AWAY. Give them what they want to eat. Goddamn. How hard is it to treat people humanely....really?

[AnticorRifling]

Yes. We are TAKING THEIR LIVES AWAY. Give them what they want to eat. Goddamn. How hard is it to treat people humanely....really?

Ask their victims. SNAP.

[4a6c1]

Glorified lex talionis. It's legislation for apes. And I'm a big fan of evolution.

[AnticorRifling]

Racist.

[TheEschaton]

I think AR is just bitter because he misses Peyton's hands between his legs.

[Gelston]

The person to be executed should only be given a fair trial if he/she gave his victim a fair trial.

Yeah, except the perp was already found guilty of murder, in the least. Fuck his last meal. I really don't have any compassion for rapists and murderers.

[Rucca]

Considering what it costs to keep someone on death row for ten plus years, this $75 meal isn't breaking the bank.

[Delias]

We'd save a lot of electricity if we went back to hanging or firing squad.

[TheEschaton]

We'd save a lot of electricity if we went back to hanging or firing squad.

Yeah, fuck that 8th Amendment.

[Keller]

Yeah, fuck that 8th Amendment.

If the person being executed granted 8th amendment rights to his/her victim, then the 8th amendment can apply.

[Androidpk]

We'd save a lot of electricity if we went back to hanging or firing squad.

Yeah, who needs morals.

[Keller]

Yeah, except the perp was already found guilty of murder, in the least. Fuck his last meal. I really don't have any compassion for rapists and murderers.

The question remains though, why even give them a trial?

They didn't give their victim a trial!

[subzero]

Kinda surprised at the number of yes votes. The fucks have been condemned to death. They're not cool people. And really, even if I were to care that they enjoy their last meal, they sure as hell won't in a matter of hours anyway. Fuck'em.


Considering what it costs to keep someone on death row for ten plus years, this $75 meal isn't breaking the bank.

I don't advocate that bullshit either.

[Androidpk]

The question remains though, why even give them a trial?

They didn't give their victim a trial!

What about the people that have been executed only to have been found innocent afterwards?

[Keller]

What about the people that have been executed only to have been found innocent afterwards?

Exactly.

If they hadn't had a trial, they wouldn't have even been guilty to later be innocent. Problem solved.

[Keller]

Kinda surprised at the number of yes votes.

Not surprised at all.

Seems like most people that voted in this poll are decent human beings.

[4a6c1]

If the person being executed granted 8th amendment rights to his/her victim, then the 8th amendment can apply.

lol

[Androidpk]

Hrm. What if the perp gave his victim a pistol and they had a duel to the death. That would make the death penalty more interesting. Running Man anyone?

[Inspire]

Texas - leading America from behind.

Steers and Queers! Steers and Queers!

[Fallen]

You're already putting the person to death. Anything beyond that seems rather petty. As long as it isn't extravagant, let the poor bastard eat what he/she wants before they're put down.

[TheEschaton]

I voted yes, but to clarify, I think "giving them what they want for their last meal" is to mollify people into thinking the state killing people is okay.

-TheE-

[Androidpk]

I voted yes, but to clarify, I think "giving them what they want for their last meal" is to mollify people into thinking the state killing people is okay.

-TheE-

That's stretching it a bit.

[Tgo01]

I voted yes, but to clarify, I think "giving them what they want for their last meal" is to mollify people into thinking the state killing people is okay.

-TheE-

Do you have any non liberal stances?

[g++]

Only poor people get the death penalty anyway. Who cares.

[TheEschaton]

Do you have any non liberal stances?

I am highly uncomfortable with abortion. I waffle on how I feel about it politically, but personally I am against it.

But that's about it.

-TheE-

[Tgo01]

I am highly uncomfortable with abortion. I waffle on how I feel about it politically, but personally I am against it.

But that's about it.

-TheE-

Huh, I would have thought that would be one liberal stance you were very adamant about.

[subzero]

Not surprised at all.

Seems like most people that voted in this poll are decent human beings.

I'd hardly qualify being a decent human being based on whether or not people believe convicted criminal assholes should be able to request their outlandish last meals.

[TheEschaton]

Huh, I would have thought that would be one liberal stance you were very adamant about.

Meh. I'm Catholic, and while I find most of their social positions ridiculous and theologically unsound, I find the idea of cherishing life from beginning to end to be pretty consistent, even if I disagree with them on when life begins and ends. I'm all for birth control and even the morning-after stuff, but third term abortions definitely are whoa there, and even second term is...meh.

Interesting point, the Catholic Church believed life began at the quickening, when the baby first kicked in the womb, around halfway through gestation. Until the 20th century and the abortion debate, when they sided with scientists to claim life began at conception. Even though scientists would never argue for the encapsulation of a soul or when that happened.

-TheE-

[Keller]

I'd hardly qualify being a decent human being based on whether or not people believe convicted criminal assholes should be able to request their outlandish last meals.


This isn't the fucking Make-a-Wish fund.

These people are not having Babbo flown into Texas.

It's a cheeseburger and french fries or some fried chicken before they die.

To deny a person you're about to kill the ability to choose their last meal (local and under $50) is a dick move. No decent human being would do that.

[Androidpk]

I'd totally request like 10 lbs of fried chicken.

[4a6c1]

This isn't the fucking Make-a-Wish fund.

These people are not having Babbo flown into Texas.

It's a cheeseburger and french fries or some fried chicken before they die.

To deny a person you're about to kill the ability to choose their last meal (local and under $50) is a dick move. No decent human being would do that.

But they are already about to die, why waste money on their comfort?! - Himmler

/nazied

[Gravebane525]

I'm not sure anymore on abortion. I used to believe strongly in adoption till a buddy of mine and his wife adopted a baby, with out even paying for the birth mothers medical fees it cost them over 30 grand for agencys and lawyers. thats some pretty major debt for your average person.

Now a year later they get a call from the agency saying the birth mother is pregnant again and wants her daughters to live together. my friends are left feeling horrible and trying to find away to come up with another 30+ grand to adopt a second child when they are still no where close to recovering from the cost of the first.

I used to think rape was the only excuse for an abortion because there was always adoption. but now that I know how much adoption actually costs I wonder how many of the really good parents could really afford it.

[subzero]

This isn't the fucking Make-a-Wish fund.

These people are not having Babbo flown into Texas.

It's a cheeseburger and french fries or some fried chicken before they die.

To deny a person you're about to kill the ability to choose their last meal (local and under $50) is a dick move. No decent human being would do that.

Did I say not to feed them? Nope. They get the same shit they've been getting served. That means no steak, lobster, pie, any of that shit. In case it's not obvious, "dick moves" mean very little to me when we're referring to someone on death row. You do understand the sort of things they have to do in order to get there, right?

[Keller]

Did I say not to feed them? Nope. They get the same shit they've been getting served. That means no steak, lobster, pie, any of that shit. In case it's not obvious, "dick moves" mean very little to me when we're referring to someone on death row. You do understand the sort of things they have to do in order to get there, right?

So we've established that you're not a decent human being.

Moving along now.

[CrystalTears]

Last meals have been a custom for ages. Now we're going to be as savage as the condemned? Seriously? Isn't it bad enough we're putting them to death, they can't even have a damned steak before they leave this earth? Damn.

[Paradii]

I'd totally request like 10 lbs of fried chicken.

I stick it up for you Jobu. You no help me now...I say fuck you Jobu. I do it myself.

[Androidpk]

http://i55.tinypic.com/24l7dxz.jpg

[Gan]

Actually, it could be considered cruel and inhuman to give a person who's about to die one of the base comforts that free humans enjoy - a good tasty meal, which reinforces the mental torture that they will get no more afterwards. Think of the mental anguish they must experience after finishing the meal and realizing that it is their last.

I would suggest that they need to spend their last earthly hours fasting and trying to attone for their sins to God.

Texas should require all condemned inmates to fast and get closer to God rather than encourage gluttonous sin.

[Tgo01]

Sorry if this was already covered in Clyder's link but I never read his link so...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15034970


The move came after a prisoner requested a huge meal then did not eat any of it, saying he was not hungry.

Lawrence Russell Brewer was executed on Wednesday for the notorious hate-crime killing of James Byrd Jr in 1998.

The abolition followed a complaint by Texan Senator John Whitmire, who called the meal privilege "inappropriate".

Senator Whitmire, a Democrat and chairman of the state Senate Criminal Justice Committee, threatened to introduce legislation if the last meal offer was not withdrawn.

"Enough is enough," he said. "It is extremely inappropriate to give a person sentenced to death such a privilege. It's a privilege which the perpetrator did not provide to their victim."

Brad Livingston, executive director of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice, replied within hours, saying the tradition would be abolished.

Mr Livingston said the inmates would now "receive the same meal served to other offenders on the unit".

Brewer's massive order arrived at 16:00 on Wednesday but he told prison officials he was not hungry.

It included two chicken fried steaks, a triple-meat bacon cheeseburger, three fajitas, a meat lover's pizza, a pint of ice cream and peanut butter fudge.

Brewer, a white supremacist, was sentenced to death for a high-profile race crime, chaining James Byrd to a pick-up truck and dragging him along a road.

Most US states have a last meal tradition but differ in its implementation. Some have a menu, others, like Florida, impose a cost restriction.

Some requests have been unusual.

In 2007, Philip Workman asked for his vegetarian pizza to be given to a homeless person. The request was denied.

James Edward Smith's request for "a lump of dirt" in 1990 was also turned down.

In 2000, Odell Barnes asked for "justice, equality and world peace".

Really? That's what brought about this change? Some white supremacist who murdered a black man by dragging him from the back of his truck requests a last meal and doesn't eat it?

Also it's kind of surprising that they turned down that one guy's request to give his last meal to a homeless person.

[Keller]

We seriously need a "like" function.

WAYNE!!!

[4a6c1]

We seriously need a "like" function.

WAYNE!!!

Like.

[DeV]

Last meals have been a custom for ages. Now we're going to be as savage as the condemned? Seriously? Isn't it bad enough we're putting them to death, they can't even have a damned steak before they leave this earth? Damn. This.

Up next: enforcing human decency 101.

[TheEschaton]

It included two chicken fried steaks, a triple-meat bacon cheeseburger, three fajitas, a meat lover's pizza, a pint of ice cream and peanut butter fudge.

Or as Wayne would call it, Tuesday afternoon.

[Paradii]

What's the third meat on a bacon cheeseburger? Is it a mixed beef/buffalo? Deer? Another pork product?


I NEED TO KNOW!

[Androidpk]

Sirloin, angus, bacon.

[subzero]

Last meals have been a custom for ages.

I guess stoning is cool, then, huh?


Now we're going to be as savage as the condemned? Seriously?

The real question should be, "Are you seriously fucking equating the following fact with someone not getting to eat a steak dinner?"

a white supremacist, was sentenced to death for a high-profile race crime, chaining James Byrd to a pick-up truck and dragging him along a road.

Yup. I sure would feel bad sending that dick into eternal nothingness on an unsatisfied belly.

[Rucca]

What's the third meat on a bacon cheeseburger? Is it a mixed beef/buffalo? Deer? Another pork product?


I NEED TO KNOW!

Armadillo. It is Texas, after all.

http://i.imgur.com/DUTz7.jpg

[Paradii]

Armadillo. It is Texas, after all.

http://i.imgur.com/DUTz7.jpg

Hrmm, for some reason, the most appealing part of that sandwich are the pickles......

[Androidpk]

Actually, screw fried chicken, I want 5 guys.

[Paradii]

Actually, screw fried chicken, I want 5 guys.

Yeah, I bet you do.

[Tgo01]

Yeah, I bet you do.

Damn beat me to it.

[waywardgs]

Lol @ this debate. You are all aware, presumably, that most of the rest of the world has abolished the death penalty entirely, no?

[Tgo01]

Lol @ this debate. You are all aware, presumably, that most of the rest of the world has abolished the death penalty entirely, no?

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_country) only 49% of countries have.

[Asha]

The death penalty is too unbelievably hypocritical and sick for me to believe it still exists in advanced society.
Maybe they should rape rapists. Assault thugs.
Incarceration is genius. I think it's a brilliant (sadly expensive) alternative to actually ending someones fucking life.

[waywardgs]

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_capital_punishment_by_country) only 49% of countries have.

They'd be wrong, it's two thirds. Besides, read the list. Which half would you rather be on?

[joehollywood]

Shame there isn't an option for...

...the state shouldn't execute criminals, it's immoral and a shame we're using a basic code of Hammurabi type punishment system. Keep them locked in solitary the rest of their lives eating ham and cheese sandwiches the rest of their lives. And that cheap ass Oscar Meyer slimey type ham, not the good stuff...

Yeah one vote for that one

[Tgo01]

They'd be wrong, it's two thirds. Besides, read the list. Which half would you rather be on?

I think there is a distinction between abolishing capital punishment in law and abolishing it in practice. Though you are right and it doesn't really change your argument that much, 66% of countries have abolished it in law or in practice.


...the state shouldn't execute criminals, it's immoral and a shame we're using a basic code of Hammurabi type punishment system. Keep them locked in solitary the rest of their lives eating ham and cheese sandwiches the rest of their lives. And that cheap ass Oscar Meyer slimey type ham, not the good stuff...

Yeah because locking people up in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives isn't immoral and cruel.

[Androidpk]

The death penalty is too unbelievably hypocritical and sick for me to believe it still exists in advanced society.
Maybe they should rape rapists. Assault thugs.
Incarceration is genius. I think it's a brilliant (sadly expensive) alternative to actually ending someones fucking life.

:)

[TheEschaton]

I think there is a distinction between abolishing capital punishment in law and abolishing it in practice. Though you are right and it doesn't really change your argument that much, 66% of countries have abolished it in law or in practice.



Yeah because locking people up in solitary confinement for the rest of their lives isn't immoral and cruel.

It isn't immoral because you're protecting public safety, it isn't cruel because we all die alone anyways (I believe some writer said that).

The death penalty has no public good (that goes further than life without chance of parole), it only serves the purpose of vengeance.

[TheEschaton]

Well, it is cruel to lock a man in a cage, but the 8th Amendment only forbids "cruel and unusual."

[Fallen]

Lifetime incarceration does likely create more jobs than execution. Prisons are one hell of a longterm stimulus project.

[Tgo01]

It isn't immoral because you're protecting public safety, it isn't cruel because we all die alone anyways (I believe some writer said that).

The death penalty has no public good (that goes further than life without chance of parole), it only serves the purpose of vengeance.

There have been studies done showing that even spending a short period of time in solitary confinement can have adverse affects on someone's mental health. Long term periods of solitary confinement has shown to cause psychosis and other mental and physical health problems, some studies have claimed that people who have spent a long time in solitary confinement have a greater chance of committing a crime after being released from prison compared to someone who wasn't locked up in solitary confinement, and yet other studies have shown that separating prisoners in such a fashion does not reduce the amount of gang activity or crimes committed inside of the prison.

So what purpose does solitary confinement serve compared to regular confinement? Sounds like vengeance to me. Between executing someone and keeping them in solitary confinement for the rest of their natural life I'd say execution is more humane.

[TheEschaton]

Well, solitary isn't normal, and is used when there's a safety issue, either for the prisoner in a general population setting, or for the general population.

Not to mention we're discussing life without parole versus the death penalty, so recidivism stats are kinda off point.

[Tgo01]

Well, solitary isn't normal, and is used when there's a safety issue, either for the prisoner in a general population setting, or for the general population.

It may not be normal in the sense that the court sentences people to solitary confinement but it's pretty normal for some prisoners to serve their entire sentences in solitary confinement, some estimate the number to be over 25,000 (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5582144). Besides I was just replying to someone who said the death penalty is cruel and a better alternative was life in solitary confinement.


Not to mention we're discussing life without parole versus the death penalty, so recidivism stats are kinda off point.

Was just arguing against your point that imprisonment serves a purpose whereas execution does not. Long term solitary confinement apparently has no positive qualities and is just one big negative.

[TheEschaton]

If the common purpose of a judicial system is to serve the purpose of public safety, imprisonment serves that purpose, and the death sentence does nothing to further that purpose. That's all that's being said.

Believe me, prison reform is a hot topic amongst liberals like me. I'd love to see the war on drugs end and like 70% of our prison populations not being imprisoned. I'd love to see conditions improved. But you're putting up straw men arguments to deflect from the argument that the death penalty is barbaric and serves no further purpose than life in prison without the chance of parole.

[4a6c1]

Was just arguing against your point that imprisonment serves a purpose whereas execution does not.

Executions never serve a purpose.

/transhumanism

[Tgo01]

But you're putting up straw men arguments to deflect from the argument that the death penalty is barbaric and serves no further purpose than life in prison without the chance of parole.

Are you even reading my posts? I'm not arguing against life in prison without the chance of parole, believe it or not I'd prefer that over the death penalty although my reasons are different from most. Prosecuting someone for the death penalty and housing death row inmates is more costly than just keeping them in prison forever, also you run the risk of a juror finding someone innocent on the sole fact that they don't believe in the death penalty. Cheaper AND less potentially dangerous people walking the streets? Yes please.

I'm arguing against life in solitary confinement instead of the death penalty.

[Drunken Durfin]

No matter what they did to get there, they are still human beings. You are about to end their life, take the slightly higher ground and let them meet their death with a full belly from the meal of their choice.

[Asha]

No matter what they did to get there, they are still human beings. You are about to end their life, take the slightly higher ground and let them meet their death with a full belly from the meal of their choice.

^

[Stanley Burrell]

If the condemned's death will bring closure to the men and women who have undergone brutal psychological trauma because of the heinous nature of the condemned's crime, I say let the lesser (evil?) of the "barbarian" instinct win. The prisoner is an incarcerated'ly-catatonic meatbag whose death will bring about more peace by those directly affected by their crimes; if such is the case, regardless of their keen ability to retain a human genome.

I can't say that I'm for sanctioned execution by the state if there are victims' family who stand in unison against the death penalty and the state goes ahead with an injection anyway ... unless you're talking about the meanest motherfucking sonofabitch on the planet to face justice.

Anyway, Texas ruined my chainsaw massacre plans for a free lobster bisque. FUUUU.

[TheEschaton]

There's a reason our nation is a nation of laws, and not men. That precise reason is because the victim's family's feelings of vengeance do not belong in the consideration of "what justice is", because the victim's family can feel different.

If, for example, the victims were Amish, and some gunman came into their school and killed 20 something of their kids, and they forgave him, should he be let go? I think not. P.S., that thing happened to the Amish, and I realize it's a slightly ridiculous opposite spectrum argument, but I've worked for the DA's office before, and one of the big debates is on how much the victim's family has a right to be heard in re: to pressing a case. The answer, in my opinion, is exactly none.

[Gan]

The real question should be, "Are you seriously fucking equating the following fact with someone not getting to eat a steak dinner?"

a white supremacist, was sentenced to death for a high-profile race crime, chaining James Byrd to a pick-up truck and dragging him along a road.

Yup. I sure would feel bad sending that dick into eternal nothingness on an unsatisfied belly.

To clarify - drug the man alive behind the truck, through downtown Vidor, until the only part left of his body was the torso that was affixed to the chains.

Yes - give that man a cheeseburger!

[waywardgs]

To clarify - drug the man alive behind the truck, through downtown Vidor, until the only part left of his body was the torso that was affixed to the chains.

Yes - give that man a cheeseburger!

Nevermind the fucking cheeseburger. How about don't kill him?

[subzero]

Nevermind the fucking cheeseburger. How about don't kill him?

He's wasted enough tax dollars.

[4a6c1]

He's wasted enough tax dollars.

....not sure if serious.

[Bobmuhthol]

Things I like about this thread: every post made by Keller and Drayal.

[diethx]

Unless the perp is force-feeding some meat.

Or pasta...


http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsS/16266-16972.gif

[Gelston]

I wonder how many of you would be tooting the same horn if you had someone close to you that was brutally murdered, say, drug behind a truck for 3 miles. Or perhaps even raped first. I think this sums it up fine for me -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMGMZsKXz94

[4a6c1]

I wonder how many of you would be tooting the same horn if you had someone close to you that was brutally murdered, say, drug behind a truck for 3 miles. Or perhaps even raped first. I think this sums it up fine for me -



This is contrary to all logic. What does death do to teach someone of the pain they have caused? A long, slow, healthy life....confined like an animal with other people who are confined like animals is efficient punishment enough.

Killing someone for their actions against you only makes you feel better. Is that what you think justice should be?

[Gelston]

Killing someone for their actions against you only makes you feel better. Is that what you think justice should be?

Honestly, yes. (And honestly, it did make me feel a lot better) A person goes far enough to commit crimes to warrant the death penalty, he is no longer a member of society. Timothy McVeigh wasn't ever coming back to live amongst us.

Anyways, I've made my position and opinions on this matter completely known. Later.

[4a6c1]

Hmmm. Okay. But I think examples in justice should mean more to society than they do to the individual, even in the smallest measure. Especially when we are talking about killing people.

[Doldrum]

I wonder how many of you would be tooting the same horn if you had someone close to you that was brutally murdered, say, drug behind a truck for 3 miles. Or perhaps even raped first. I think this sums it up fine for me -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMGMZsKXz94

You're correct, if someone I knew was killed brutally I would be upset, hurt and angry. I wouldnt want the death penalty as it stands to be used. Id want to beat them to death with a brick myself. Hardly the best circumstances to make a logical decision. Imagine if we left important decisions about laws to the family and loved ones of the victim? The sentencing would be extreme. Level headed detatched intelligent people who can take perspectives into account is the better road in my opinion

[Tsa`ah]

Huh, I would have thought that would be one liberal stance you were very adamant about.

You'll find that dirty liberals don't fit into your cookie cutter assumptions ... we actually have views that run the spectrum between left and right, just that most of them are planted firmly to the left.

I'm pro-life without a doubt. I'm also a man and as such I can never get pregnant. Should that ever become possible in my life time ... it is nearly impossible that I would get pregnant without consent. As a man who will never be pregnant ... no one can walk out on me while pregnant and leave such a decision as abortion on my plate. I can't be raped and become pregnant. In the event that some scientific marvel comes along and allows men to become pregnant ... the choice of doing so will be completely in my control. My opinion on abortion, while it should be considered as with any man's opinion, doesn't really matter. It is an opinion born of convenience where there are very few circumstances that could arise that would make my opinion on abortion worth actually considering.

Never mind that abortion is nothing more than a distraction issue where the pro-life opinions are pretty self defeating and completely hypocritical to begin with. Address education, address health care, address poverty and socioeconomic disparities ... and you make the question and issue of abortion obsolete.

I'm also quasi-pro death penalty. It is barbaric and inhumane ... but convince me that a child molester or serial rapist shouldn't be put down so long as there is absolutely no question of their guilt. Convince me that those committing/ordering genocide should live ... and I'll gladly change my stance on the issue. I don't feel comfortable with the position to begin with.

Though if we're going to behave like savages and monsters, the least we could do is remove ourselves by at least a step from the monsters and savages we're putting to death. Give them their last meal, spare them some dignity and make their passing as painless as possible.

[Asha]

but convince me that a child molester or serial rapist shouldn't be put down so long as there is absolutely no question of their guilt. Convince me that those committing/ordering genocide should live ... and I'll gladly change my stance on the issue.

Imagine the rest of your life in Prison?

The rest of your post I found too funny to really concentrate for a reply.

[Tsa`ah]

Imagine the rest of your life in Prison?

That's not very convincing. I would never do anything that would land me in a position in which I had to defend myself against a charge that had the death penalty as a possible outcome.

The rest of my life in prison? Sure I would be among people that were just a step above politicians, corporate trial lawyers and most judges ... but I would be alive. I would have access to some form of health care, reading material, education, fitness equipment, meals, a bed, laundry service, and plenty of stimulating conversations on subjects of prison rape, tattoos, shanking, toilet wine making and the like.

It wouldn't be a picnic ... but I would be alive and likely find a way to cope with the situation given enough time.

Unless I'm slightly suicidal ... death doesn't hold much appeal over life in any situation outside of brutal torture.

[Stanley Burrell]

There's a reason our nation is a nation of laws, and not men. That precise reason is because the victim's family's feelings of vengeance do not belong in the consideration of "what justice is", because the victim's family can feel different.

If, for example, the victims were Amish, and some gunman came into their school and killed 20 something of their kids, and they forgave him, should he be let go? I think not. P.S., that thing happened to the Amish, and I realize it's a slightly ridiculous opposite spectrum argument, but I've worked for the DA's office before, and one of the big debates is on how much the victim's family has a right to be heard in re: to pressing a case. The answer, in my opinion, is exactly none.

I understand that vengeance is not justice. That's why, if you aren't Timmy McVeigh, regardless of how quickly a death sentence is thrown out, the immediate victims' families will have had time to mull over just how this has affected them. I think it will bring down their level of immediate subjective "kill-kill-kill" mentality.

Despite time interval X where the families may have time to ponder the ethics of criminal justice regarding the condemned's fate, it is my humble belief that it should still weigh in moreso than personal accounts (edit: pressing the case) to a courtroom jury/direct Justice officials involved. And yeah, it would hypothetically be the law of men and women and not the nation.

And I doubt that the Amish shooter would have been "let go" if the community sought Amish justice. But I really believe that if a mass murderer's death will bring closure to the deceased's immediate relationships, then ... maybe it's even more of a humanitarian decision if families stood in unison for a yay/nay. ...I just feel it would be more moral than the efficacy of blind justice.

[Gan]

That's not very convincing. I would never do anything that would land me in a position in which I had to defend myself against a charge that had the death penalty as a possible outcome.

Are you admitting that the death penalty is a deterrent?

[waywardgs]

Are you admitting that the death penalty is a deterrent?

Are you claiming it is?

[Tgo01]

Are you claiming it is?

Are you insinuating it isn't?

This is fun.

[waywardgs]

Are you insinuating it isn't?

This is fun.

Are you calling my assertion an insinuation?

[Asha]

I thought he was implying!

[Latrinsorm]

Well, it is cruel to lock a man in a cage, but the 8th Amendment only forbids "cruel and unusual."It can't be that cruel if it doesn't punish the typist.
I wonder how many of you would be tooting the same horn if you had someone close to you that was brutally murdered, say, drug behind a truck for 3 miles. Or perhaps even raped first.We shouldn't base our justice system on emotional responses, because emotions are really, really stupid. Objective human reasoning is only kind of stupid, we should go with that instead until a better alternative presents itself. You wouldn't rely on your emotions to teach you medicine or physics, why ethics?

[Tsa`ah]

Are you admitting that the death penalty is a deterrent?

The death penalty isn't a deterrent.

It's just not in me to kill another human being, let alone harm another person unless threatened or other wise provoked.

[Gan]

I would never do anything that would land me in a position in which I had to defend myself against a charge that had the death penalty as a possible outcome.




The death penalty isn't a deterrent.

It's just not in me to kill another human being, let alone harm another person unless threatened or other wise provoked.


Interesting contradiction.

[Gan]

What I find really humorous is that some folks are really up in arms about the last meal issue but yet they're ok that he's being put to death.

Priorities anyone?

[CrystalTears]

What I find really humorous is that some folks are really up in arms about the last meal issue but yet they're ok that he's being put to death.

Priorities anyone?
I'm against the death penalty actually.

[AnticorRifling]

What I find really humorous is that some folks are really up in arms about the last meal issue but yet they're ok that he's being put to death.

Priorities anyone?

I thought this was a discussion about the last meal and not about the death penalty as a whole.

I don't think it's a safe assumption that people are cool with the death penalty just because they're offering up opinions on the last meal.

[Parkbandit]

I'm of the feeling that if you are a scumbag piece of shit who has taken someone else's life, you don't deserve anything nice to happen to you for the rest of your life.. including your choice of dining selections for a last meal.

With that being said.. I believe if we put people to death, we need to be 100% sure that they actually are the ones that committed the crime. There were legitimate questions raised in the case of Troy Davis to which should have made the officials there pause and go back over the case.

[Gravebane525]

these people are murders, rapists, and you want to reward them with free food, free medical, a free roof over there head. there decent people out there homeless and starving and you want to keep these animals alive on the governments dime. I could care less about giving them there choice of a last meal. but people serving life sentences... 2 or 3 life sentences. put them down like the animals they are.

[AnticorRifling]

While we're at it let's also execute the retarded. Gravebane525 please report to the nearest cleansing facility.

[Gravebane525]

While we're at it let's also execute the retarded. Gravebane525 please report to the nearest cleansing facility.

good to see your ontop of things. would have been disapointed if ya didn't troll me right away.

[Parkbandit]

good to see your ontop of things. would have been disapointed if ya didn't troll me right away.

In Anticor's defense, he hasn't been "ontop" of anything in years... according to his wife.

PS - If you don't want to be viewed as less intelligent, don't post in a less than intelligent manner. This forum is a written form of communication.. simple things like spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc... are the basis of what people judge you on and while you may have something big to say, it's drowned out by your 2nd grade typing method.

[AnticorRifling]

I'll kill you in the face.

[Gan]

Death by chin omlette?

[Cephalopod]

If you don't want to be viewed as less intelligent, don't post in a less than intelligent manner. This forum is a written form of communication.. simple things like spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc... are the basis of what people judge you on and while you may have something big to say, it's drowned out by your 2nd grade typing method.

I wish this was posted on every forum, everywhere. This isn't text messaging or IMing: you can take two seconds to proof-read and not look as retarded.

If you write in a clear manner, it gives us the opportunity to actually parse and understand your thoughts; then we can label you retarded based on that, instead of your typing. (See: all of my posts.)

[ClydeR]

I believe if we put people to death, we need to be 100% sure that they actually are the ones that committed the crime.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. The government is only allowed to prosecute you once for a crime. Same goes for the alleged criminal. If his trial is fair, then he only gets one trial. If it's not fair, then he gets a redo. The Constitution guarantees the right to a fair trial. If the trial was fair, then the Constitution doesn't guarantee you a second trial. Where would it ever stop?

You can never be 100% certain. The issue, which you would know if you watched Law and Order, is whether there was reasonable doubt as to guilt at the time of the trial.



There were legitimate questions raised in the case of Troy Davis to which should have made the officials there pause and go back over the case.

The time to raise those questions was at the trial, not 20 years later.

[Gravebane525]

In Anticor's defense, he hasn't been "ontop" of anything in years... according to his wife.

PS - If you don't want to be viewed as less intelligent, don't post in a less than intelligent manner. This forum is a written form of communication.. simple things like spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc... are the basis of what people judge you on and while you may have something big to say, it's drowned out by your 2nd grade typing method.

eh people can view me how ever they want. view me as a retard but if your going to bash me atleast comment on the content of my posts along with how retarded I must be to write them that way. as for my response to anticor I'm just finding him pretty amusing lately. he does nothing buy bash me as retarded, never comments on any points I have to make, anything I have to say in defense of my points or myself, nothing but the same troll over and over. at first I thought he might have something intelligent to say, but after the last few days of him trolling me where ever I post and never saying anything on the topic at hand. well you can just say I know there won;t be anything constructive coming from any of his replys to me.

[Parkbandit]

eh people can view me how ever they want. view me as a retard but if your going to bash me atleast comment on the content of my posts along with how retarded I must be to write them that way. as for my response to anticor I'm just finding him pretty amusing lately. he does nothing buy bash me as retarded, never comments on any points I have to make, anything I have to say in defense of my points or myself, nothing but the same troll over and over. at first I thought he might have something intelligent to say, but after the last few days of him trolling me where ever I post and never saying anything on the topic at hand. well you can just say I know there won;t be anything constructive coming from any of his replys to me.

You come across as a really stupid person. You don't know that a sentence should start with a capital letter, you don't know the difference between your and you're, you misspell words really badly, etc... If you haven't figured out how to communicate effectively at this stage in your life, what makes you think we believe you have anything intelligent to actually say?

You have made the decision to purposely type like you are retarded.. so if someone calls you retarded, I'm not sure what you are complaining about.

[Gravebane525]

You come across as a really stupid person. You don't know that a sentence should start with a capital letter, you don't know the difference between your and you're, you misspell words really badly, etc... If you haven't figured out how to communicate effectively at this stage in your life, what makes you think we believe you have anything intelligent to actually say?

You have made the decision to purposely type like you are retarded.. so if someone calls you retarded, I'm not sure what you are complaining about.

I type like I've always typed, its not a decision I've made its just the way it goes. as for anything intelligent to say I think anyone that would take an extra second to try and understand my posts could see there is logic to them, though it may not be the same logic you might use. if you people are so intelligent cause you start each sentence with a capital letter and you type your and you're differently, why is it the only response I ever get is that I'm retarded? figure someone as smart as you all could atleast bash the content of my post from time to time or atleast come up with a new way to bash me.

[Paradii]

I type like I've always typed, its not a decision I've made its just the way it goes. as for anything intelligent to say I think anyone that would take an extra second to try and understand my posts could see there is logic to them, though it may not be the same logic you might use. if you people are so intelligent cause you start each sentence with a capital letter and you type your and you're differently, why is it the only response I ever get is that I'm retarded? figure someone as smart as you all could atleast bash the content of my post from time to time or atleast come up with a new way to bash me.

Just stop posting.

[AnticorRifling]

You don't present any logical or valid talking points, even after weeding through the train wrecks that are your posts I could find none. Your views/stances/"points" are very much in keeping with someone who "speaks" as badly as you. Hell at least we think Smythe is trying to role play on the boards (which is a different kind of retarded).

Get some content and then we'll bash that, until then we'll go off what we're given.

[Back]

I type like I've always typed, its not a decision I've made its just the way it goes. as for anything intelligent to say I think anyone that would take an extra second to try and understand my posts could see there is logic to them, though it may not be the same logic you might use. if you people are so intelligent cause you start each sentence with a capital letter and you type your and you're differently, why is it the only response I ever get is that I'm retarded? figure someone as smart as you all could atleast bash the content of my post from time to time or atleast come up with a new way to bash me.

Reading your posts are overly laborious because there are no visual cues as to when one point starts and the other ends. It looks like a mini WOT (wall of text) that people will tl;dr (too long, didn't read).

We may be gamers but we are TEXT gamers. Real text gamers use caps, punctuation, sentences, paragraphs, and the occasional Oxford comma. At the very least.

[Parkbandit]

I type like I've always typed, its not a decision I've made its just the way it goes. as for anything intelligent to say I think anyone that would take an extra second to try and understand my posts could see there is logic to them, though it may not be the same logic you might use. if you people are so intelligent cause you start each sentence with a capital letter and you type your and you're differently, why is it the only response I ever get is that I'm retarded? figure someone as smart as you all could atleast bash the content of my post from time to time or atleast come up with a new way to bash me.

I thought it was just being lazy.. now I'm inclined to believe you actually are stupid.

[Gravebane525]

Reading your posts are overly laborious because there are no visual cues as to when one point starts and the other ends. It looks like a mini WOT (wall of text) that people will tl;dr (too long, didn't read).

We may be gamers but we are TEXT gamers. Real text gamers use caps, punctuation, sentences, paragraphs, and the occasional Oxford comma. At the very least.

this I agree with. is also why I say my posts may be alittler harder to understand but people as smart as you all should be able to handle it.

as for lazy/stupid. little of both maybe? I've typed like this for 15+ years now and I don't see any reason to change it just for a few trolls on a message board.

[Parkbandit]

this I agree with. is also why I say my posts may be alittler harder to understand but people as smart as you all should be able to handle it.

as for lazy/stupid. little of both maybe? I've typed like this for 15+ years now and I don't see any reason to change it just for a few trolls on a message board.

How old are you?

[Gravebane525]

I turned old this year. 30

[AnticorRifling]

So either you lied in your profile, lied in this post, or you're retarded.

See that I commented on your content.

[Atlanteax]

Parkbandit partially called it...

Grave is *both* lazy and stupid.

My suggestion to Grave is that he limits all future posts to just "Herp Derp" but I fear that the ability to capitalize remains outside of his understated limitations.

[Gravebane525]

So either you lied in your profile, lied in this post, or you're retarded.

See that I commented on your content.

I pick A and C, I never use accurate information when filling out profile's on random forum websites.

and very good AR, ya will get the hang of it yet!

by the way I got the first part of my script working. its alittle ugly and done looking like a wizard/sf script but the comands are lich and it works. I was to retarded to figure out how to get autowar running, was easier for me to write my own berserk training for dummies script. so far it runs fine in Vaalor, thinkin bout makin it work for the other cities if people want it.

[Liagala]

as for lazy/stupid. little of both maybe? I've typed like this for 15+ years now and I don't see any reason to change it just for a few trolls on a message board.
Don't play the "I don't care about trolls on a message board" game. You care enough to come to this website, read the forums, and attempt to respond. You care enough to bitch that people are calling you out for punctuation/grammar instead of post content.

Your desire to have an intelligent conversation with the people here is reason enough to change your posting style. You came here - we didn't hijack your computer and lock out all websites but the PC. You can adjust your posting style to reflect proper grammar and punctuation or not, as you choose... but if you choose not to, don't be upset when people call you out on it. I wouldn't go to France and expect everyone else to adjust to my English.

[Gravebane525]

Don't play the "I don't care about trolls on a message board" game. You care enough to come to this website, read the forums, and attempt to respond. You care enough to bitch that people are calling you out for punctuation/grammar instead of post content.

I am not playing any such game. and I don't see anything I've said as bitching about what people call me out on. I was just commenting on there higher intelligence and there lack of ability to respond to post content. like I said I've typed this way for 15+ years, there are plenty of people on these boards that can understand what I say and some that think I have enough of a point to reword it for these intellectuals so they can understand better my lowly form of communication.

this is me, don't like it, tough tittys. this is a good forum here and there is alot to learn and talk about here. I'll stick around and continue posting how I post and let the trolls be trolls. I just needed to get used to the kind of trolls we have here. I type like a 2nd grader and they troll like one, I just wasn't used to that.

[Parkbandit]

I turned old this year. 30

What other things do you do like a 15 year old.. that even though you know it's dumb, you simply can't get out of the habit?

You used to shit your pants when you were 2.. but you eventually broke that bad habit too.. didn't you?

[Gravebane525]

What other things do you do like a 15 year old.. that even though you know it's dumb, you simply can't get out of the habit?

You used to shit your pants when you were 2.. but you eventually broke that bad habit too.. didn't you?

hm... well I still jerkoff like I did when I was 15, still play gemstone, still enjoy drawing even though I suck at it, still play games, still enjoy going to the range with my bow or my gun. all things that could be argued as being dumb and are habits I can't kick.

as for shitting my pants, I've mostly broken that one, though there have been times when I was sick enough or drunk enough.

[ClydeR]

Getting rid of the last meal of prisoners facing execution saved so much money that Texas has decided to cut one meal per day on weekends. It's a brilliant way to save money.


A meal the system calls brunch is usually served between 5 and 7 a.m., followed by dinner between 4 and 6:30 p.m.

More... (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/21/us/texas-reduces-weekend-meals-for-prisoners.html)

Nobody is going to starve from skipping meals on the weekends.

[Gan]

When I worked there - lunch was rarely attended. Most of the inmates were usually found outside in the rec yard all day or setting up spreads with other inmates for the afternoon football games.

[4a6c1]

Getting rid of the last meal of prisoners facing execution saved so much money that Texas has decided to cut one meal per day on weekends. It's a brilliant way to save money.


Good idea!!! We've already established that they arent people worthy of humane treatement. This is just one step closer to automatic execution upon conviction. That would save the state A TON of money.

[Parkbandit]

Good idea!!! We've already established that they arent people worthy of humane treatement. This is just one step closer to automatic execution upon conviction. That would save the state A TON of money.

http://allisondykstra.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/product-preview-adult-hyperbole-large1.gif

[Tgo01]

Hell I don't even eat three meals a day.

[subzero]

http://allisondykstra.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/product-preview-adult-hyperbole-large1.gif



Hell I don't even eat three meals a day.

What they said.

[Gan]

Good idea!!! We've already established that they arent people worthy of humane treatement. This is just one step closer to automatic execution upon conviction. That would save the state A TON of money.

If you have ever spent time in a state prison facility you would understand how this statment makes you sound rather uninformed.

Texas State Prisons are light years ahead of where they were before Ruiz v. Estelle (1970's and before.) If you want to see how far they have come - do some research on the case mentioned above or Hon. William Wayne Justice and his efforts as oversight authority of Ruiz v. Estelle.

I would not be surprised if about 100 motions for a preliminary injunction have not already been filed by all of the writ writers that are incarcerated within TDCJ-ID.

This issue will definitely be decided in the courts.

[AnticorRifling]

Good idea!!! We've already established that they arent people worthy of humane treatement. This is just one step closer to automatic execution upon conviction. That would save the state A TON of money.

Someone is in love with a convict.