CNN GOP debate

[Androidpk]

Anyone else watching this? Thoughts/comments?

[ClydeR]

Rick Perry shined in the CNN Tea Party debate. He confidently fended off the attacks from other candidates with a relaxed smile. It reminded me of Ronald Reagan.

Perry got a lot more time than any other candidate because he got to respond to the many attacks.

The verdict is that Perry won again. That's two debates in a row.

[ClydeR]

Also I think Perry has lost weight. He looked good.

[ClydeR]

John Huntsman shouldn't try to make jokes. He's not funny. His "treason" joke was dumb.

Rick Santorum should smile like Perry does. Santorum isn't going to win just by being angry about everything.

[Androidpk]

Rick Perry shined in the CNN Tea Party debate. He confidently fended off the attacks from other candidates with a relaxed smile. It reminded me of Ronald Reagan.

Perry got a lot more time than any other candidate because he got to respond to the many attacks.

The verdict is that Perry won again. That's two debates in a row.

You crack me up as usual. Perry looked incredibly weak and the questions he got on social security were making him squirm. You could also tell no one in the audience liked what he had to say on immigration.

[Seran]

He never really answered the question posed by Romney either; do you plan on ending Social Security?

[Parkbandit]

He never really answered the question posed by Romney either; do you plan on ending Social Security?

You know who has the craziest idea about Social Security? Yea, Ron Paul.

[Rinualdo]

The more of these I watch, the more I prefer Huntsman or Romney.

[ClydeR]

At this point, if Romney wants to regain the lead, he must launch an aggressive negative teevee advertising campaign against Perry, realizing that Perry will likely counter with the same. And he must do it now. It's Romney's only path to victory.

[Parkbandit]

The more of these I watch, the more I prefer Huntsman or Romney.

I haven't watched any clips other than the ones of Perry being gang banged.. but I heard Huntsman was god awful last night.. and had some jokes that completely flopped.

[Androidpk]

I haven't watched any clips other than the ones of Perry being gang banged.. but I heard Huntsman was god awful last night.. and had some jokes that completely flopped.

Huntsman tried to be funny a couple of times and it was complete failure all around. Santorum was ok until he went stupid over 9/11. Gingrich had a few good pointers but it seems like he's there just for the sake of being there. Bachmann was out there in left field, especially when Blitzer asked her the question about the guy in a coma. Cain really didn't say anything memorable.
The best part I thought was watching Perry getting all frazzled, and hearing his flip flop on social security. I can see him going up in flames in 3..2..1..

[Rinualdo]

I liked when the question was asked about the 30 year old man with no health insurance and 6 months of care, would you let him die. And then the audience started screaming yes.

[Androidpk]

I liked when the question was asked about the 30 year old man with no health insurance and 6 months of care, would you let him die. And then the audience started screaming yes.

I found that a little unsettling.

[Gan]

I have the debate on the DVR. Might get a chance to watch it tonight if I get home at a decent hour.

[Parkbandit]

I found that a little unsettling.

I don't get the question.. if a guy with no health insurance has 6 months to live, would you let him die? How is that a real question?

What was Ron Paul's response? I doubt he said the Federal Government should be responsible to give everyone health insurance.

[Rinualdo]

I don't get the question.. if a guy with no health insurance has 6 months to live, would you let him die? How is that a real question?

What was Ron Paul's response? I doubt he said the Federal Government should be responsible to give everyone health insurance.

I think the implication was that, without care which he can not afford, he would die within 6 months. How is that not a real question?

Link (http://gawker.com/5839564/gop-debate-crowd-on-uninsured-sick-americans-let-them-die)

[Androidpk]

I actually thought his response was really good, much better than Bachmann's who completely ignored the question and went on to say how she would repeal obamacare.

[Latrinsorm]

Yeah, Ron Paul's response was quite good.

[Parkbandit]

I think the implication was that, without care which he can not afford, he would die within 6 months. How is that not a real question?

Link (http://gawker.com/5839564/gop-debate-crowd-on-uninsured-sick-americans-let-them-die)

Might want to check the link out again... the question posed what that the 30 year old guy has a good job and could afford health insurance.

Ron Paul's response was in line with my belief and counter to those who believe that the Government should be responsible for him.

[ERGUNproIsrael]

The more of these I watch, the more I prefer Huntsman or Romney.

A HERP A LERP SERP. SURF ON MY DERP

[Rinualdo]

I didn't take issue with Ron Paul's response. I take issue with the crowd saying let the man die.

[Parkbandit]

I didn't take issue with Ron Paul's response. I take issue with the crowd saying let the man die.

There was only a couple of crazy people that shouted "yes".. not quite the "audience started screaming yes" as you eluded to.

I'm 100% in agreement with Ron Paul's belief on that question.. what about you?

[Rinualdo]

There was only a couple of crazy people that shouted "yes".. not quite the "audience started screaming yes" as you eluded to.

I'm 100% in agreement with Ron Paul's belief on that question.. what about you?

I absolutely disagree with him.

eta: Oh, even Perry noticed the audience reaction and had to comment on it (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/09/13/7744165-perry-taken-aback-by-debate-crowd-reaction).

[pabstblueribbon]

There was only a couple of crazy people that shouted "yes".. not quite the "audience started screaming yes" as you eluded to.

I'm 100% in agreement with Ron Paul's belief on that question.. what about you?

Hay! remember that time when you and Gan got all foamy at the mouth about how crazy Ron Pauls ideas where? Man! That was a hoot..

Whats crow taste like anyways?

[Rinualdo]

Hay! remember that time when you and Gan got all foamy at the mouth about how crazy Ron Pauls ideas where? Man! That was a hoot..

Whats crow taste like anyways?

Like this

http://chzbromania.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/guidos-bros-douchebags-fratboys-rage-on-reality-bro.gif

[Latrinsorm]

There was only a couple of crazy people that shouted "yes".. not quite the "audience started screaming yes" as you eluded to.

I'm 100% in agreement with Ron Paul's belief on that question.. what about you?Suppose the man in question is a single father, and has two daughters (let's say) aged 6 and 2, named Christina and Michelle. Should we as a nation tolerate that man jeopardizing his daughters' future by refusing to hold medical insurance for himself? On a related note, should we tolerate that man refusing to have his daughters immunized?

Congressman Paul's response is unassailable when we consider the man in a vacuum, but there are always broader consequences. To me, they outweigh the issue of expanded government in this case. It was still a coherent, thoughtful response, but I disagree with its ramifications.

[pabstblueribbon]

Like this

http://chzbromania.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/guidos-bros-douchebags-fratboys-rage-on-reality-bro.gif

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN??!!!

Seriously. I don't get it.

[Inspire]

I really like Ron Paul but I wish he had a better chance at winning. Crazy-Right-Wing people care more about what religion and state the republican is from than actual stance on issues.

[Androidpk]

Should we as a nation tolerate that man jeopardizing his daughters' future by refusing to hold medical insurance for himself?

Yes.


On a related note, should we tolerate that man refusing to have his daughters immunized?

Yes.

[pabstblueribbon]

I really like Ron Paul but I wish he had a better chance at winning. Crazy-Right-Wing people care more about what religion and state the republican is from than actual stance on issues.

You mean kind of like how people keep perpetuating that myth that third party candidates don't have a shot? Like.. you just.. did?

Or how people will vote for their less desirable candidate based on their ability to get elected? Hmm.

People need to grow some fucking balls or the two party rhetoric is going to rule us forever and leave us deadlocked in two piles of different smelling shit. It's still fucking shit.

Well, and the whole goddamn process needs to be reformed IMO.

eh. if i werent all fucked up i'd fmake it sound less angry. can hardly move, like my whole body has rigormortis.

[Androidpk]

Take too much viagra?

[pabstblueribbon]

Take too much viagra?

Been really stressed with projects. Woke up today, my feet are like, twice their normal size, my knees and arm sockets all feel.. loose, like everything in them is letting go.. but all my muscles are pulled tight.

I should probably go to the hospital but I'm being stubborn.

Yeah I know you don't care, but I hope it ruins your joke, funny man.

I've also lost partial hearing in one ear. That ear was always a pussy anyways.

[Parkbandit]

Hay! remember that time when you and Gan got all foamy at the mouth about how crazy Ron Pauls ideas where? Man! That was a hoot..

Whats crow taste like anyways?

You might want to go back and review what I've said about Ron Paul.

Here, I'll help you:

* I generally agree with most of his plan pertaining to economics.
* I generally believe he's batshit insane when it comes to how small he wants to shrink the federal government.
* I generally believe he's batshit insane when it comes to his foreign policy.

[Parkbandit]

Been really stressed with projects. Woke up today, my feet are like, twice their normal size, my knees and arm sockets all feel.. loose, like everything in them is letting go.. but all my muscles are pulled tight.

I should probably go to the hospital but I'm being stubborn.

Yeah I know you don't care, but I hope it ruins your joke, funny man.

I've also lost partial hearing in one ear. That ear was always a pussy anyways.

Hopefully, you have insurance.. but to be perfectly honest, I couldn't give a shit if you did or not.

Too soon?

[pabstblueribbon]

You might want to go back and review what I've said about Ron Paul.

Here, I'll help you:

* I generally agree with most of his plan pertaining to economics.
* I generally believe he's batshit insane when it comes to how small he wants to shrink the federal government.
* I generally believe he's batshit insane when it comes to his foreign policy.

Yeah and if I gave a shit I'd search for the thread where every counterpoint you made included an animated gif or video of him appearing on some stupid 80's show that I can't remember the name of, regardless of what was said.

Basically the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying na nananana. Which you just did.

I like the bullets though. It's like when Bush would stick his thumb out and shake his fist when he was trying to make a point.

[pabstblueribbon]

Hopefully, you have insurance.. but to be perfectly honest, I couldn't give a shit if you did or not.

Too soon?

My feelings are mutual, so I cannot fault you.

[Androidpk]

Yeah I know you don't care, but I hope it ruins your joke, funny man.


You don't love me anymore!

[Parkbandit]

My feelings are mutual, so I cannot fault you.

LOL.. you are the one that is so mentally unstable because he's so stressed out from work he needs to go to the hospital.

Christ, that's pretty fucking frail for a guy. You might think about doing something else as a career... maybe take up painting in the park or walking dogs?

[ANTICOR NUM 1 FAN]

Next week I'm going to start pretending I'm jewish because I ate a hebrew national hot dog so I've got a deep understanding of the religion now.

[Parkbandit]

Yeah and if I gave a shit I'd search for the thread where every counterpoint you made included an animated gif or video of him appearing on some stupid 80's show that I can't remember the name of, regardless of what was said.

Basically the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying na nananana. Which you just did.

I like the bullets though. It's like when Bush would stick his thumb out and shake his fist when he was trying to make a point.

Because if you don't like a politician, you must be against every position he has ever held?

You are embarrassing yourself in this thread... maybe you shouldn't post when you are so fucked up from stress........

[pabstblueribbon]

One last comment before I die.


I'm 100% in agreement with Ron Paul's belief on that question.. what about you?


* I generally believe he's batshit insane when it comes to how small he wants to shrink the federal government.

I don't really know what the question was because I couldn't watch the debates, but I'm assuming he believes that the Federal government has no jurisdiction in providing/forcing health care?

If so, your first comment seems at odds with your second comment. I don't know how Dr. Paul feels about it, but I would prefer to let communities closer to the problem handle it rather than the Federal government, and IIRC thats how he feels on a lot of issues. I know it doesn't work for human rights, etc, but we know that, and that's what the constitution is for.

Not only does it bring the burden of the problem on the community that it directly effects, it also grants a clearer picture of how to solve it when you're closer to the problem, rather than some massive federal beurecratic fixall that might not be the answer depending on the circumstance.

Also makes the states accountable in a way, since if their laws suck people will move to a state with laws they are more in agreeance with.

Now, that I made that incredibly vague and swiss cheesy point, what is wrong with Pauls foreign policy?

[pabstblueribbon]

Because if you don't like a politician, you must be against every position he has ever held?

You are embarrassing yourself in this thread... maybe you shouldn't post when you are so fucked up from stress........

Well I've been pulling 80 hours a week on a system that could not only kill a ton of people, but could at the VERY LEAST give our economy a face numbing, poop its pants regularly, stroke.

And shit happens. I don't think it's all stress, not sure what it is actually.

How am I embarassing myself in this thread? The only one embarassing themselves is you by being completely narrow-minded and immature.

Oh I forgot to add that your first sentence illustrated exactly what I was saying. Read fail or what?

[Parkbandit]

One last comment before I die.

OMG STRESSED OUT AT WORK IS HARD!!!



I don't really know what the question was because I couldn't watch the debates, but I'm assuming he believes that the Federal government has no jurisdiction in providing/forcing health care?

If so, your first comment seems at odds with your second comment. I don't know how Dr. Paul feels about it, but I would prefer to let communities closer to the problem handle it rather than the Federal government, and IIRC thats how he feels on a lot of issues. I know it doesn't work for human rights, etc, but we know that, and that's what the constitution is for.

Not only does it bring the burden of the problem on the community that it directly effects, it also grants a clearer picture of how to solve it when you're closer to the problem, rather than some massive federal beurecratic fixall that might not be the answer depending on the circumstance.

Also makes the states accountable in a way, since if their laws suck people will move to a state with laws they are more in agreeance with.

Now, that I made that incredibly vague and swiss cheesy point, what is wrong with Pauls foreign policy?

Notice how I said I "GENERALLY" think he's crazy because of his plan to shrink the federal government? Yea.. I'm talking about his plan to do away with the TSA, HSO, FBI, IRS... but I agree that the federal government has no business to force it's citizens to buy health insurance. Weird to you, I realize.. but I don't agree with absolutely everything a politician believes.

As far as his foreign policy goes.. he wants to pull everyone out of every country and stop all foreign aid. Awesome plan... really...

[Parkbandit]

Well I've been pulling 80 hours a week on a system that could not only kill a ton of people, but could at the VERY LEAST give our economy a face numbing, poop its pants regularly, stroke.

OMG PABSTBLUERIBBON WILL SAVE TEH ECONOMY!!!

Christ, for a frail little guy, you sure do have a very exaggerated feeling of self worth. That must really be difficult to reconcile as you are in your bed, so sick from 'stress' that you can't function.



And shit happens. I don't think it's all stress, not sure what it is actually.


Really? That's not what you posted a few moments ago:


Been really stressed with projects. Woke up today, my feet are like, twice their normal size, my knees and arm sockets all feel.. loose, like everything in them is letting go.. but all my muscles are pulled tight.

I've also lost partial hearing in one ear.



How am I embarassing myself in this thread? The only one embarassing themselves is you by being completely narrow-minded and immature.

I'm just glad I quoted all of your stupidity.. that way when you aren't 'fucked up' from 'stress' you can enjoy it as much as we did.




Oh I forgot to add that your first sentence illustrated exactly what I was saying. Read fail or what?

No. You made the claim that because I agreed with Ron Paul on this one thing, that I must be eating crow because now I endorse Ron Paul. Pretty stupid, don't you agree?

[pabstblueribbon]

OMG STRESSED OUT AT WORK IS HARD!!!



Notice how I said I "GENERALLY" think he's crazy because of his plan to shrink the federal government? Yea.. I'm talking about his plan to do away with the TSA, HSO, FBI, IRS... but I agree that the federal government has no business to force it's citizens to buy health insurance. Weird to you, I realize.. but I don't agree with absolutely everything a politician believes.

As far as his foreign policy goes.. he wants to pull everyone out of every country and stop all foreign aid. Awesome plan... really...

Well, like I said, its probably a combination of long hours, stress, diet, maybe some foreign invader, who the fuck knows right?

Thanks for continuing to display your ignorance in an attempt to belittle me about obvious physiological problems I'm experiencing, regardless of the real cause.

Ok, old buddy calm down. Have a Werthers and take a load off. Pull out that Iphone that you equate to success in life and use that new app for checking your oldman pullup.

Hehe. It's funny how you say GENERALLY, but then use it with completely opposite imagery as BATSHIT.

* In my day, us old republicans would call that 'flip flopping' on the issue.

EDIT: I added a bulletin for you.

[pabstblueribbon]

No. You made the claim that because I agreed with Ron Paul on this one thing, that I must be eating crow because now I endorse Ron Paul. Pretty stupid, don't you agree?

Oh I wasn't insinuating that at all. I don't recall you agreeing with anything about Ron Paul in that discussion that was oh.. at least 4 years ago, so it was just a minor little victory for the mental breakdown I suffered from the embarassment of your witty comments and use of poingant infographics you so like to pull from GIS.

[pabstblueribbon]

Goddamn it, just shut up PB for like, 15 minutes so I can hobble away from my desk and forget you exist.


OMG PABSTBLUERIBBON WILL SAVE TEH ECONOMY!!!

I'm not going to 'save' it. But I'm pretty sure you could see the complications with linking every single railroads trains via radios / computers and controlling them without inducing failures, or waisting time and the economic impact it would have.

A lot of it is the complexity of all the different configurations and models that change ever so slightly depending on the customer make and build per model of locomotive.. its a fucking headache. Scouring schematics to make sure we make the correct electrical connections.. then putting feet on the ground to make sure the railroads schematics match what they have in the field.. organizing all the materials.. training the labor..engineering solutions on the fly to work.. I take a lot of pride in my work, no matter what I do, so yeah, I sit and think constantly about it, and stress about it, 24/7.

Fuck you. PB, i was trying to go an entire day without thinking about it.

[Parkbandit]

Well, like I said, its probably a combination of long hours, stress, diet, maybe some foreign invader, who the fuck knows right?

Boo hoo?



Thanks for continuing to display your ignorance in an attempt to belittle me about obvious physiological problems I'm experiencing, regardless of the real cause.

You poor thing you. Someone as frail as you should be institutionalized or maybe just take a handful of sleeping pills, chased with a good sized bottle of Nightquil and just go to sleep...



Ok, old buddy calm down. Have a Werthers and take a load off. Pull out that Iphone that you equate to success in life and use that new app for checking your oldman pullup.

This from the guy who has swollen feet, joint problems, can't move, etc.... you sound like you are 90 years old... but with the mental capacity of a 12 year old.



Hehe. It's funny how you say GENERALLY, but then use it with completely opposite imagery as BATSHIT.

I'm not sure why it is so difficult for you to understand a very simple concept.. let me see if I can dumb it down for you:

I agree with many positions of Ron Paul.. specifically many of his economic principles. I do not agree with many positions of Ron Paul.. specifically most of his foreign policy statements and his desire to completely gut the federal government by dismantling many of the government departments we currently have.



* In my day, us old republicans would call that 'flip flopping' on the issue.


Incorrect. My opinion of Ron Paul really hasn't changed much in the past 4-5 years.

[Rinualdo]

When are you two going to do something about all this sexual tension?

[pabstblueribbon]

When are you two going to do something about all this sexual tension?

Well, I have my doubts about the diagnoses of our tension being attributed to any sexual underpinnings..

When I get back to full strenght, I say we settle this in the Thunderdome.

Two men enter, one man leaves.

[Gan]

Hay! remember that time when you and Gan got all foamy at the mouth about how crazy Ron Pauls ideas where? Man! That was a hoot..

Whats crow taste like anyways?

Lets focus on the part in red. Notice how the wording you chose gives the appearance that I thought all of Ron Paul's ideas are crazy. I also noticed that you failed to mention that in some instances I think the man is a little crazy - but that's another story alltogether.

Spelling aside, your veiled attempt at hyperbole is duly noted.

Very slick sir. Slick indeed.

[Gan]

When are you two going to do something about all this sexual tension?
http://chzbromania.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/guidos-bros-douchebags-fratboys-rage-on-reality-bro.gif

[Parkbandit]

Well, I have my doubts about the diagnoses of our tension being attributed to any sexual underpinnings..

When I get back to full strenght, I say we settle this in the Thunderdome.

Two men enter, one man leaves.

Are you planning on someone being in your place? From the sound of it, this wouldn't be worthy of the Thunderdome... it would inevitably stress you out to the point you couldn't function again.

Maybe you should take up quilt making.. to alleviate all the stress attributed to you not single handedly destroying the US economy.......

[~Rocktar~]

* In my day, us old republicans would call that 'flip flopping' on the issue.

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Fuck no. You aren't and likely never have been a Republican any more than Keller is an independent.



Well, I have my doubts about the diagnoses of our tension being attributed to any sexual underpinnings..

When I get back to full strenght, I say we settle this in the Thunderdome.

Two men enter, one man leaves.

One man enters then you hobble/roll/get carried in, one man leaves.

So, you are going to try and build a combined remote control system for all the railroads? Great way to cut out human jobs there.

[Hulkein]

Ron Paul takes certain good ideas a bit too far but the actuality is he could not achieve as much as he'd like and would, in reality, just do the best job of cutting the fat. He himself has said this in debates that although he believes many federal programs are technically unconstitutional, he knows it's not right to just demolish them after decades of reliance (he said that re: social security amongst other programs).

I don't find his foreign policy batshit insane, though. I would like to see how much we could accomplish at home if we went isolationist for a bit. Cut that ridiculous military budget and just concentrate on intelligence gathering.

[Parkbandit]

I don't find his foreign policy batshit insane, though. I would like to see how much we could accomplish at home if we went isolationist for a bit. Cut that ridiculous military budget and just concentrate on intelligence gathering.

Oh, I believe that we have tons of money we could save from foreign aid, reducing the military and getting rid of dead weight in the state department.. but I do not subscribe to his notion that we should pull all forces out of all countries (like Germany, Japan, etc...) and stop all foreign aid. We would make matters worse.

[ClydeR]

There's a woman who came up crying to me tonight after the debate. She said her daughter was given that vaccine. She told me her daughter suffered mental retardation as a result of that vaccine. There are very dangerous consequences," Bachmann said on FOX News after the debate.

More... (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/09/13/bachmann_woman_told_me_gardasil_made_her_daughter_ mentally_retarded.html)

I think Bachmann is lying about her encounter with the crying mother. I think it never happened and that she is making it up for dramatic effect. Where is this mystery woman whose teenage daughter suddenly became retarded after getting a vaccination?

Rush thinks Bachmann jumped the shark (http://www.therightscoop.com/rush-bachmann-jumped-the-shark-over-gardasil-causing-mental-retardation/).

[Cephalopod]

I think Bachmann is lying about her encounter with the crying mother. I think it never happened and that she is making it up for dramatic effect. Where is this mystery woman whose teenage daughter suddenly became retarded after getting a vaccination?


http://www.teapartytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/sarah-palin1.jpg

[AnticorRifling]

I was going to say Jenny McCarthy but yours ties in the with politics better.

[Gan]

Nice one.

[ClydeR]

http://www.teapartytribune.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/sarah-palin1.jpg

You don't understand. This alleged woman said her daughter was fine until her daughter took the vaccine as a teenager and then suddenly developed mental retardation.

Either Bachmann is making it up or there was such a woman and Bachmann believed her.

[Deathravin]

http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/press/entry/nurses-say-letting-uninsured-patients-die-is-no-laughing-matter/#.TnC-BnsnNJ8.reddit


PRESS RELEASES

Nurses Say Letting Uninsured Patients Die Is No Laughing Matter Following Abhorrent Audience Cheers

For Immediate Release
September 13, 2011
Contact: Charles Idelson, (510) 273-2246, Carl Ginsburg, (917) 405-1060, or Donna Smith, (773) 617-4493

Nurses Say Letting Uninsured Patients Die Is No Laughing Matter Following Abhorrent Audience Cheers at CNN-Tea Party Debate

The nation’s largest representative of registered nurses today expressed revulsion at the cheering by some audience members in the CNN-Tea Party Republican debate Monday night at the prospect of letting a sick person die just because they do not have health insurance.

Prompting the outburst was a question from CNN’s Wolf Blitzer to Rep. Ron Paul about whether medical care should be provided to a hypothetical, uninsured 30-year-old man who lapsed into a coma, to which Paul responded, “that’s what freedom is all about, taking your own risks.” When Blitzer then asked, “Are you saying that society should just let him die?” a number of audience members erupted into loud cheers of “Yeah!” and laughter.

National Nurses United said the gruesome reaction from many in the audience is a reminder of the growing collapse of civil society in America, and the need for more humane policies. One such step would be to expand Medicare to cover all Americans so that no one has to be in danger of losing their life because they are uninsured.

Nor is it an academic question. Nearly 45,000 deaths in the U.S. every year are associated with lack of health insurance, according to a study this year by Harvard Medical School and Cambridge Health Alliance published by the American Journal of Public Health.

“It was stunning. My first reaction is how far have we degenerated as a society?” said NNU Co-President Jean Ross, RN who said she was watching the debate.

Ross called the reaction antithetical to the very essence of nursing. “Everything we do is geared toward preventing illness, and getting people well. If no one cares whether our patients get well, what are we doing advocating for them and fighting for them?”

A broader question, says NNU Executive Director RoseAnn DeMoro, is “one of national identity: Do we have — or even want — a country, a nation of common purpose and support — or just a collection of amoral individuals?”

NNU Co-President Deborah Burger, RN said the idea of “deciding whether someone deserves medical treatment based on their pocket book is abhorrent. Does that mean we should take someone off life support if they are in an accident just because they are uninsured? For nurses that would be unconscionable, and should not be part of any society I want to be in.”

“Healthcare should be a right for everyone, not just a privilege for the few, a point nurses would debate with anyone,” said Ross.

Ross said she was also disturbed by Paul’s comment about “freedom.”

“Abandoning people is not freedom,” said Ross, especially those without the resources to buy increasingly expensive private insurance. "That isn’t what I hear from my patients or their families.”

Strikingly, the audience cheers came just hours before the release Tuesday morning of new Census Bureau data showing the number of uninsured Americans this year rising by another 900,000 to 49.9 million people. Concurrently the Census Bureau reported a huge leap in the poverty rate, one reason so many people are without health coverage as insurance premiums alone have doubled in nine years.

“Most people feel that when someone is hurting or down on their luck, you take care of them,” said Ross. “Many of those I’ve cared for who are in their most dire circumstances have said to me that they feel fortunate because there are some who are worse off than they are. There is still a lot of empathy and sympathy for others in this country.”

“Most of us, other than the most wealthy, are just are one illness away from bankruptcy and lack of health insurance,” said DeMoro. “Nurses do not regard lack of wealth or personal misfortune as a handicap or an excuse to withdraw needed and appropriate medical care. Nor should that ever be acceptable in a just and humane society.”

National Nurses United, with 170,000 members, is the nation’s largest union and professional association of nurses. NNU is holding a national convention this week in San Francisco that will also feature a major rally on Thursday, September 15 of 1,000 RNs calling for a tax on Wall Street to raise revenue for Main Street reforms of jobs, healthcare for all, and freedom from hunger and homelessness.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think all the money spent on political ads, feminine hygiene ads and cigarette ads should be collected and used to pay for the uninsured.

[AnticorRifling]

Treat them, but understand you won't get paid as your hospital is collecting no money from the treatment. You worked your 8-12 hour shift but for 9 of those hours you provided care for the uninsured here's your check for the 3 hours you gave care to those who had proper coverage.

Boom NNU does a 180. They care, as long as they get paid.

[CrystalTears]

I think all the money spent on political ads, feminine hygiene ads and cigarette ads should be collected and used to pay for the uninsured.
So how much care do you provide to the uninsured? Preventive? Surgery? Intensive care? If we provide care to anyone just because we don't want to see people die, what's the incentive to have insurance in the first place? Or does this only apply to dire, about-to-die need?

[Tgo01]

Yes I'm very confused about this hypothetical person with no insurance. If he's poor enough he is eligible for Medicaid which pays 100% of everything. If he's not 'quite that poor' to receive Medicaid then isn't he eligible for free/reduced medical care that most (all?) hospitals have to provide to certain patients in exchange for not paying taxes? If he has enough money for medical insurance then why the heck doesn't he have it? Isn't treating him without him paying into the system going against the entire idea of the Democrats healthcare overhaul plan?

I guess we all might as well just stop paying for medical coverage and let the doctors and nurses work for free. I bet that would lower healthcare costs substantially.

[Parkbandit]

Yes I'm very confused about this hypothetical person with no insurance. If he's poor enough he is eligible for Medicaid which pays 100% of everything. If he's not 'quite that poor' to receive Medicaid then isn't he eligible for free/reduced medical care that most (all?) hospitals have to provide to certain patients in exchange for not paying taxes? If he has enough money for medical insurance then why the heck doesn't he have it? Isn't treating him without him paying into the system going against the entire idea of the Democrats healthcare overhaul plan?

I guess we all might as well just stop paying for medical coverage and let the doctors and nurses work for free. I bet that would lower healthcare costs substantially.

If you listen to the clip on the link, the fictional 30 year old guy makes plenty of money.. (I bet if CNN called him Rich, you would have a bunch of liberals scream out "LET HIM DIE!") but has made the decision to go without health insurance.

[Tgo01]

Red CNN GOP debate 09-14-2011 04:27 PM 100%?

Yes 100%, please know what you are talking about before leaving me retarded negative rep. I know a few people on Medicaid and 100% of their medical costs are covered, this includes medication as well.

[Parkbandit]

Red CNN GOP debate 09-14-2011 04:27 PM 100%?

Yes 100%, please know what you are talking about before leaving me retarded negative rep. I know a few people on Medicaid and 100% of their medical costs are covered, this includes medication as well.

Is that why we're 80 T-R-I-L-L-I-O-N in the hole in terms of liabilities for Medicare?

[Tgo01]

Is that why we're 80 T-R-I-L-L-I-O-N in the hole in terms of liabilities for Medicare?

Well I don't know about that but Medicare does not pay for 100%, there is a yearly deductible and copays.

[Rinualdo]

If you listen to the clip on the link, the fictional 30 year old guy makes plenty of money.. (I bet if CNN called him Rich, you would have a bunch of liberals scream out "LET HIM DIE!") but has made the decision to go without health insurance.

I don't think this hypothetical person was described as making "plenty" of money. Just that he could afford a few hundred a month for insurance.


Yes I'm very confused about this hypothetical person with no insurance. If he's poor enough he is eligible for Medicaid which pays 100% of everything. If he's not 'quite that poor' to receive Medicaid then isn't he eligible for free/reduced medical care that most (all?) hospitals have to provide to certain patients in exchange for not paying taxes? If he has enough money for medical insurance then why the heck doesn't he have it? Isn't treating him without him paying into the system going against the entire idea of the Democrats healthcare overhaul plan?

I guess we all might as well just stop paying for medical coverage and let the doctors and nurses work for free. I bet that would lower healthcare costs substantially.


This question was asked to Ron Paul, who believes that all the things you mentioned should not exist. The question was to imply that in a Ron Paul envisioned country, with no Medi-anything, should this person be left to die.

Ron's answer avoid the issue primarily and suggested it be left up to churches and private organizations to pay for someone in this situation.

As to why the heck he doesn't have it, I suppose it is a personal financial choice we all make. Do you have flood insurance? Fire/theft/hurricane/earthquake insurance? Is your car insurance the maximum allowed by your insurer or do you only have state minimum coverage? ETC...

I'm sure there are risks that each of us take no matter what our income levels. This question was designed around that "what happens when that risk blows up in our face".

I strongly disagree with Ron Paul on two points. I don't think healthcare should be a for-profit business and think it should be completely run by the government. I also think relying on the Church to pick up the slack for those who can't afford insurance opens the door to a whole host of new problems.

[Tgo01]

As to why the heck he doesn't have it, I suppose it is a personal financial choice we all make. Do you have flood insurance? Fire/theft/hurricane/earthquake insurance? Is your car insurance the maximum allowed by your insurer or do you only have state minimum coverage? ETC...

I have the state minimum, that is a risk I choose to make and will own up to it if it ever comes to that. Why is medical insurance different? Why do people get to make a decision to save a few hundred dollars a month then when it comes to them needing medical care it should be provided to them at the cost of others? As I said before why does anyone pay for medical insurance then?


I don't think healthcare should be a for-profit business and think it should be completely run by the government.

Uh-oh, something Rinualdo and I agree on. Someone hold me :(

[Rinualdo]

I have the state minimum, that is a risk I choose to make and will own up to it if it ever comes to that. Why is medical insurance different? Why do people get to make a decision to save a few hundred dollars a month then when it comes to them needing medical care it should be provided to them at the cost of others? As I said before why does anyone pay for medical insurance then?


Sounds like you are all for the government requiring people to have health insurance.

[Tgo01]

Sounds like you are all for the government requiring people to have health insurance.

Nope.

[Parkbandit]

I don't think this hypothetical person was described as making "plenty" of money. Just that he could afford a few hundred a month for insurance.



The actual quote is "A healthy 30 year old young man, has a good job, makes a good living" Good is in the eye of the beholder.. but it's obvious that the question pertains to working class people who can easily afford health insurance but makes the decision not to.

[Latrinsorm]

So how much care do you provide to the uninsured? Preventive? Surgery? Intensive care? If we provide care to anyone just because we don't want to see people die, what's the incentive to have insurance in the first place? Or does this only apply to dire, about-to-die need?We have already decided as a nation that certain needs cannot be adequately met by the free market: the military and utilities to name two. Perhaps insurance is one as well, and as you suggest the current system would die simply from lack of incentive to engage in it.

Now, whether or not the government would get the job done any better is certainly open for debate, but the mere fact that there would be no incentive for private insurance is not an important point.

[Rinualdo]

The actual quote is "A healthy 30 year old young man, has a good job, makes a good living" Good is in the eye of the beholder.. but it's obvious that the question pertains to working class people who can easily afford health insurance but makes the decision not to.

"...but decides, you know what, I'm not going to spend 200$ or 300$ dollars a month for health insurance. I'm healthy and I don't need it. But something terrible happens and he needs it. Who is going to pay for something if he goes into a coma."

I think the obvious implication is that the man is not rich and can not pay for the health care cost himself.

[Parkbandit]

"...but decides, you know what, I'm not going to spend 200$ or 300$ dollars a month for health insurance. I'm healthy and I don't need it. But something terrible happens and he needs it. Who is going to pay for something if he goes into a coma."

I think the obvious implication is that the man is not rich and can not pay for the health care cost himself.

There is a difference between being able to afford the health care costs associated with the accident / illness and affording the health insurance he decided not to purchase.

No one is questioning his ability to pay for the hospital costs, so I'm not sure why you are bringing it up. The entire premise of the question was that this guy took a risk and it didn't pay off.

[Hulkein]

"...but decides, you know what, I'm not going to spend 200$ or 300$ dollars a month for health insurance. I'm healthy and I don't need it. But something terrible happens and he needs it. Who is going to pay for something if he goes into a coma."

I think the obvious implication is that the man is not rich and can not pay for the health care cost himself.

Rinualdo, may I suggest you hit yourself in the head with a hammer? How can that possibly be your stance on the "obvious implication"? Rofl, they clearly meant someone who could afford it but chose not to.

[Tgo01]

Rinualdo, may I suggest you hit yourself in the head with a hammer? How can that possibly be your stance on the "obvious implication"? Rofl, they clearly meant someone who could afford it but chose not to.

I think Rinualdo meant the man could not afford the hospital bills but could afford health insurance. Problem is the man chose to buy a large 70 inch TV instead of buying health insurance and now that he is sick he wants other people who actually pay for health insurance to pick up his slack.

[Hulkein]

If that is what he meant then I will hit myself in the head with a hammer for speed reading and then making fun of him.

[ClydeR]

A powerful video about the motivation for Perry's decision on the Gardasil matter.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=8354516

[pabstblueribbon]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Fuck no. You aren't and likely never have been a Republican any more than Keller is an independent.




One man enters then you hobble/roll/get carried in, one man leaves.

So, you are going to try and build a combined remote control system for all the railroads? Great way to cut out human jobs there.

I wish I could take credit for 'trying' to build it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control

FRA mandate. It won't remove jobs, it will likely add them.

EDIT: I didn't read the wikilink until I posted it, but its inaccurate. Everyone is going to one system for interoperability.