Tracking Students Like Cattle

[ClydeR]

HOUSTON — Two school districts in the Houston area have begun monitoring students' whereabouts on campus by issuing them identification badges with radio frequency identification technology — the same technology used to track cattle.

More... (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/7241375.html)

When you're a student at a public school, you give up your rights, except for freedom of religion. Therefore, this tracking thing is a good idea. Just as long as the government doesn't start doing it with adults.


"There's real questions about the security risks involved with these gadgets," said Dotty Griffith, public education director for the ACLU of Texas.

What security risks? They had them on Star Trek the Next Generation and Star Trek Voyager and they generally worked fine, except that every now and then a crew member would go rogue and take his badge off and leave it somewhere as a decoy.

[Gnome Rage]

I'd be so pissed man. I'd never take that shit anywhere, or paint it with that stuff they paint hospitals with that blocks cellphones... That might not work with radio frequencies though.

Too big brother for my tastes.

[Bobmuhthol]

or paint it with that stuff they paint hospitals with that blocks cellphones... That might not work with radio frequencies though.

Please never take a job as a physicist.

[Fallen]

Please never take a job as a physicist.

Please never take a job as a motivational speaker.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Aluminum foil wallet, get!

[Clove]

Please never take a job as a motivational speaker.Quit giving him shit, Bob JUST learned how to quote properly.

[AnticorRifling]

Please never take a job as a physicist.

What does having people lay on a couch and talk about their feelings have to do with radio waves?!

[Gnome Rage]

Please never take a job as a physicist.

The NaturalNano line of anti-cellphone paint only blocks certain frequencies. My Point: the frequency that is used to make phone calls (which this paint blocks); may not block the radio frequency that they are using on these ID cards.

K thx. bye.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

The NaturalNano line of anti-cellphone paint only blocks certain frequencies. My Point: the frequency that is used to make phone calls (which this paint blocks); may not block the radio frequency that they are using on these ID cards.

K thx. bye.

Are they actually using that paint yet? I thought it'd only been developed but wasn't in wide use. All the rebar and stuff used to enforce the concrete hospitals are made out of and shiz usually does a good job blocking cell phone reception.

In any case I'd still go the tin foil wallet route, a LOT cheaper!

[Gnome Rage]

I don't know if its being used in the U.S. yet but I think it is being used in Japan. Not 100% on that, at all.

[ClydeR]

What does having people lay on a couch and talk about their feelings have to do with radio waves?!

I thought it was funny.

[AnticorRifling]

That's why I'm here. To make ClydeR laugh.

[Bobmuhthol]

The NaturalNano line of anti-cellphone paint only blocks certain frequencies. My Point: the frequency that is used to make phone calls (which this paint blocks); may not block the radio frequency that they are using on these ID cards.

K thx. bye.

Less anthropology, more physics, for the love of God.

[4a6c1]

Less anthropology, more physics, for the love of God.

Whoa whoa. Physics are brainhurt. Take chemistry until there is no more chemistry to take. Then start taking biology. It will blow your MIND.

[AnticorRifling]

It's more fun to experience the world than read about someone's version of the experience in a book. OH FUCKIN SNAP!

[ElvenFury]

This is all well and good, but when are we actually going to be able to MILK the students. And how many horts is the milk output expected to be?

[AnticorRifling]

Depends on the total weight (in stone) of the student. Also if the student is hypnotized first then, obviously, output of said lactate via hypno-lactation will be of greater quantity and better quality.

[Kyra231]

Are they actually using that paint yet? I thought it'd only been developed but wasn't in wide use. All the rebar and stuff used to enforce the concrete hospitals are made out of and shiz usually does a good job blocking cell phone reception.

In any case I'd still go the tin foil wallet route, a LOT cheaper!

I don't think they are that I've heard of. Hell a lot of frequent flyers in hospitals bring their cell in & use it rather than pay for the hospital phones. I've never heard anyone say they can't either.

[Kyra231]

I'd be so pissed man. I'd never take that shit anywhere, or paint it with that stuff they paint hospitals with that blocks cellphones... That might not work with radio frequencies though.

Too big brother for my tastes.

If you're not skipping or being places & doing things you're not supposed to why would you give a fuck?

[Bobmuhthol]

Really? You think a person (any member of a school administration, noting of course that almost all of these people are fucking retarded) should have that kind of power over a student body? I don't care how legal or illegal, ethical or unethical my actions are -- it's not acceptable to use RFID tracking on students.

[AnticorRifling]

Should probably get rid of hall monitors and taking attendance too.

[Bobmuhthol]

1. Hall monitors actually exist?
2. Taking attendance doesn't track you. I can't stop you from looking to see if I'm in the same room but I can surely stop you from scanning for my radio ID. There should be no lawful punishment for this.

[m444w]

It isn't like the government can't trace you with your cellphone or anything already. Now they just want to condition the new generation that it is perfectly acceptable... unless you have something to hide, of course. Who knows, in 30 years maybe they won't even need a warrant!

[Wyrmx]

I don't think they are that I've heard of. Hell a lot of frequent flyers in hospitals bring their cell in & use it rather than pay for the hospital phones. I've never heard anyone say they can't either.

Many hospitals are now retrofitting leaky coax with RF repeaters to provide localized cell service.

::Waits patiently for comments on leaky coax::

[Clove]

Really? You think a person (any member of a school administration, noting of course that almost all of these people are fucking retarded) should have that kind of power over a student body? I don't care how legal or illegal, ethical or unethical my actions are -- it's not acceptable to use RFID tracking on students.Why? What possible difference would it make to you if an administrator has the ability locate you on school grounds?

[Bobmuhthol]

It's an authority they don't need to have. I am more open to it if they get the same badges and I can locate them at my leisure.

[AnticorRifling]

Except you, the student, are never liable for the safety of the administrator are you? If I'm supposed to make sure you're getting to class, being safe, etc. then having a tool that lets me do that ONLY AT SCHOOL is bad how?

[Clove]

It's an authority they don't need to have. I am more open to it if they get the same badges and I can locate them at my leisure.They're responsible for access to the property and liable for injuries. So yes. They could benefit from being able to locate students. On the other hand you have no authority or responsibility so you don't need to locate staff.

My question was, however, why would it matter to you if you could be located? Focus.

[Bobmuhthol]

You can have as many tools as you want, as long as they can track me without forcing me to possess that tracking device. It doesn't make me any safer and it arguably violates the Fifth Amendment.

[Clove]

You can have as many tools as you want, as long as they can track me without forcing me to possess that tracking device. It doesn't make me any safer and it arguably violates the Fifth Amendment.Why. What difference does it make if you're required to carry an ID without an RF tracker as opposed to one that is? How does being required to carry a badge for access to a facility a violation of your Fifth Amendment rights?


No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

I don't see how this relates to trackable ID's?

[Bobmuhthol]

What difference does it make if you're required to carry an ID without an RF tracker as opposed to one that is?

One has a radio transmitter.


How does being required to carry a badge for access to a facility a violation of your Fifth Amendment rights?

It isn't, providing I have a choice (I don't have a reasonable choice not to attend school) and the badge does not have a radio transmitter in it. However, in this case both of those tests fail.

The Fifth Amendment implies the privacy of personal information, and location is information. Possessing a badge that broadcasts my location to the government is potentially in conflict with the right against self-incrimination.

[Clove]

One has a radio transmitter.What difference does that make to you?

[Clove]

It isn't, providing I have a choice (I don't have a reasonable choice not to attend school) and the badge does not have a radio transmitter in it. However, in this case both of those tests fail.What does a radio transmitter have to do with your Fifth Amendment rights? If you're required to carry an ID in school without one, how would a radio transmitter make any difference? Why do you feel you should have the choice to move anonymously on a school property?

[Gelston]

School officials say the devices improve security and increase attendance rates, a figure that's important because some school funding is tied to attendance. The Spring district uses the tracking system to find students counted absent by classroom teachers.
Often, the student is somewhere else on campus, allowing the district to recover $194,000 in state funding since December 2008, said Christine Porter, Spring's associate superintendent for financial services.


I have no problem with this. I remember in my Junior and Senior year in HS we had to wear ID cards at school. They didn't track us, but you were required to wear them, visibly, at all times. If you forgot to bring it, you got a nice little orange paper pinned to your shirt, which also served as your Saturday detention slip.

[Kyra231]

Really? You think a person (any member of a school administration, noting of course that almost all of these people are fucking retarded) should have that kind of power over a student body? I don't care how legal or illegal, ethical or unethical my actions are -- it's not acceptable to use RFID tracking on students.

As a matter of fact I do. With as many school shootings and other violent acts as there are now I would like to know asap if my kid is in the same classroom where it's happening.

Also if my girls were doing something illegal on school grounds(or any where else for that matter) I'd like to have them smacked down as quickly as possible. It's not a helluva lot different than me tracking their cell phone location and them not knowing it :)

[Bobmuhthol]

You wouldn't know if your kid is in the same classroom for two reasons: you only know where their ID is and you certainly are not going to have access to that information as it's happening. Additionally, this poses a security threat because, in the event of a school shooting, the tracking system can be compromised and it will tell the shooters exactly where everyone is; this is typically a situation we like to avoid, a la turning off lights, locking doors, and getting out of sight. But if you really believe that this system actually helps you in a school shooting situation, I guess there's nothing I can say to demonstrate how wrong you are.

It tells me a lot about your parenting that you want your children to be tracked by others, and that you think an RFID chip will tell you if an illegal act is being committed.

[Kyra231]

You wouldn't know if your kid is in the same classroom for two reasons: you only know where their ID is and you certainly are not going to have access to that information as it's happening. Additionally, this poses a security threat because, in the event of a school shooting, the tracking system can be compromised and it will tell the shooters exactly where everyone is; this is typically a situation we like to avoid, a la turning off lights, locking doors, and getting out of sight. But if you really believe that this system actually helps you in a school shooting situation, I guess there's nothing I can say to demonstrate how wrong you are.

It tells me a lot about your parenting that you want your children to be tracked by others, and that you think an RFID chip will tell you if an illegal act is being committed.


You're the one who brought up not wanting to be tracked while or if you were doing illegal things, I was just voicing my opinion on it.

I'm pretty sure what you think you know about my parenting is about zilch. Continue to blow hot air and froth at the mouth though, it's entertaining. When my 14 yo does it I have to keep a straight face, you i can just snicker away at.

Btw the kids are tracked quite a bit already. Video tapes on buses, attendance at the school, having to sign in and out...I'm not seeing a chip in their I'd as being a big deal since you yourself said it wouldn't help in tracking anything but their id cards.

[Tordane]

It tells me a lot about your parenting that you want your children to be tracked by others, and that you think an RFID chip will tell you if an illegal act is being committed.

I see what you're doing there.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/06/13/burnsexcellent.jpg

[Bobmuhthol]

You're the one who brought up not wanting to be tracked while or if you were doing illegal things, I was just voicing my opinion on it.

I'm pretty sure what you think you know about my parenting is about zilch. Continue to blow hot air and froth at the mouth though, it's entertaining. When my 14 yo does it I have to keep a straight face, you i can just snicker away at.

Btw the kids are tracked quite a bit already. Video tapes on buses, attendance at the school, having to sign in and out...I'm not seeing a chip in their I'd as being a big deal since you yourself said it wouldn't help in tracking anything but their id cards.

I brought up not wanting to be tracked. There are no qualifiers; it applies under all circumstances.

You admitted to wanting your children's school to use RFID chips to track them. I am not making anything up and it does speak to your parenting, unless you think that making decisions for your children is not parenting in which case that also speaks to your parenting.

When video surveillance on a bus becomes a realtime tracking device, let me know. When an attendance sheet becomes a realtime tracking device, let me know. When signing your name on a piece of paper becomes a realtime tracking device, let me know.

[Gelston]

One has a radio transmitter.



It isn't, providing I have a choice (I don't have a reasonable choice not to attend school) and the badge does not have a radio transmitter in it. However, in this case both of those tests fail.

The Fifth Amendment implies the privacy of personal information, and location is information. Possessing a badge that broadcasts my location to the government is potentially in conflict with the right against self-incrimination.

Your location in middle school and high school isn't private information. Intact in many states in the US, if you aren't over the age of 16, there are laws specifically designed to ensure you are at school during certain hours. Another thing concerning privacy at school, by entering school grounds you forfeit any right to refuse a search of your person or articles associated to your person. Including your car in the parking lot.

They district has stated this program saves them nearly $200,000. I'm all for saving money that's specifically allocated from tax dollars to education. Privacy of a minor be damned.

[Gelston]

I'd like to also throw in real fast, tha there does come a point where enough is enough. Tracking kids off school grounds or the deal with the school turning on web cams on school computers without warning qualify as that.

[Cephalopod]

I prefer counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think they should all be micro-chipped like my dogs and then their position broadcast to googlemaps live 24/7.

Or, to help pay for the microchipping, the school charges for a hunt night where the wild youngsters are set free in the parking lot and you get to shoot them with a tracking dart. Hell, I don't even have kids and I'd pay to do that!

[Latrinsorm]

School officials say the devices improve security and increase attendance rates, a figure that's important because some school funding is tied to attendance. The Spring district uses the tracking system to find students counted absent by classroom teachers.
Often, the student is somewhere else on campus, allowing the district to recover $194,000 in state funding since December 2008, said Christine Porter, Spring's associate superintendent for financial services.


I have no problem with this. I remember in my Junior and Senior year in HS we had to wear ID cards at school. They didn't track us, but you were required to wear them, visibly, at all times. If you forgot to bring it, you got a nice little orange paper pinned to your shirt, which also served as your Saturday detention slip.And then you joined the military. Cause and effect, match point to the military-crypto-industrio-fascist complex.

Privacy is for hippies. Comprehensive surveillance is long overdue. We're living in a society, here.

[Kyra231]

I brought up not wanting to be tracked. There are no qualifiers; it applies under all circumstances.

You admitted to wanting your children's school to use RFID chips to track them. I am not making anything up and it does speak to your parenting, unless you think that making decisions for your children is not parenting in which case that also speaks to your parenting.

When video surveillance on a bus becomes a realtime tracking device, let me know. When an attendance sheet becomes a realtime tracking device, let me know. When signing your name on a piece of paper becomes a realtime tracking device, let me know.

When the justice system relieves me of being responsible for my kids being at school then I'll be happy to go without the tracking system. In the meantime were my kids one of the ones who skip regularly & put me in danger of going to court/paying fines/jail time/etc then hell yes I believe they should do everything they can to know where they're at.

[Kyra231]

I'd like to also throw in real fast, tha there does come a point where enough is enough. Tracking kids off school grounds or the deal with the school turning on web cams on school computers without warning qualify as that.

Agreed. I approached my 2 teens with the idea & they just shrugged it off. There's so many rules & regulations they have to adhere to they're not worried about one more thing, especially when it's an ID card they could drop in a locker & walk off without if they really wanted to.

[4a6c1]

Holy crap I just dont know how I feel about this at all. I seriously cannot make up my mind. I think I've considered literally every possible outcome of the long term usage of these things and my brain hurts from thinking about it. So I'm going to stop and just let it play out. This almost never happens to me that I cant make up my mind about something like this...it might be a bad sign.

[Bobmuhthol]

There's so many rules & regulations they have to adhere to they're not worried about one more thing, especially when it's an ID card they could drop in a locker & walk off without if they really wanted to.

This is such a hypocritical argument that I can't begin to describe it.

[Kyra231]

This is such a hypocritical argument that I can't begin to describe it.
:rofl: So repeating what 2 teens told me they thought of it = my opinion and it's an argument? You're funny. :)

[4a6c1]

Well...opinion is argument. As soon as you have an opinion and speak it you are starting an argument. Not that argument is bad. It is necessary for critical thought and in turn the evolution of our silly little primate brains.

[Gelston]

And then you joined the military. Cause and effect, match point to the military-crypto-industrio-fascist complex.

Privacy is for hippies. Comprehensive surveillance is long overdue. We're living in a society, here.

Haha, no. I'd say my decision to join the military is from watching GI Joe as a kid. We'd play Army and stuff instead of cowboys and indians or cops and robbers.

And no, privacy isn't for hippies. I just don't feel you should expect it in a public, taxpayer funded place.

[Bobmuhthol]

I can't talk to anyone that doesn't understand what an argument is. This time, instead of speaking to your parenting, it speaks to your ability to make a persuasive argument. It's funny that you compared me to a negligible 14-year-old earlier because you're totally retarded.

[Kyra231]

I can't talk to anyone that doesn't understand what an argument is. This time, instead of speaking to your parenting, it speaks to your ability to make a persuasive argument. It's funny that you compared me to a negligible 14-year-old earlier because you're totally retarded.

Thanks, that means so much coming from you :yes:

Eta: You have noticed you & one other kid are the only ones were up in arms over this right? Also out of curiosity, exactly what does my parenting 'speak of' since you're now a parenting expert.

[Drunken Durfin]

Either pony up $9


http://www.roguewallet.com/shop/products.php?category_id=0&page=19

Or, for the Do-It-Yourselfer


http://www.rpi-polymath.com/ducttape/RFIDWallet.php

Problem solved.

[Tisket]

Eta: You have noticed you & one other kid are the only ones were up in arms over this right? Also out of curiosity, exactly what does my parenting 'speak of' since you're now a parenting expert.

Honestly, I think it's a bad idea too. I'm just not in a particularly argumentative mood right now. I might feel more combative tomorrow though.

[Methais]

Please never take a job as a motivational speaker.

Please never take a job as a motivational speaker.

[Tisket]

And no, privacy isn't for hippies. I just don't feel you should expect it in a public, taxpayer funded place.

Next up: body cavity searches when you attend a public sporting event!

Don't complain. After all it's your tax dollars at work.

[Gelston]

Next up: body cavity searches when you attend a public sporting event!

Don't complain. After all it's your tax dollars at work.

Honestly, that's really only necessary for drug searches. I did say earlier it would get to the point that enough is enough, but we aren't there, and I hope we never are.

[Drunken Durfin]

I did say earlier it would get to the point that enough is enough, but we aren't there, and I hope we never are.

Unfortunately, as long as there is cable TV and fast food there will never be a point where enough is enough for the American public. As long as the masses are entertained and fed they don't give a shit about what is being done to them. Yeah, they may whine, bitch and moan, but only until kickoff.

[Gelston]

I guess Ancient Rome had it right then.

[Latrinsorm]

Unfortunately, as long as there is cable TV and fast food there will never be a point where enough is enough for the American public. As long as the masses are entertained and fed they don't give a shit about what is being done to them. Yeah, they may whine, bitch and moan, but only until kickoff.It could also be that what is being done to them is actually not a big deal. Eees... no big deal! 'Sno big deal.