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Methais
08-05-2010, 03:33 PM
Portland lemonade stand runs into health inspectors, needs $120 license to operate

http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/photo/lemonade1jpgjpg-0930a77be036a276_large.jpg

It's hardly unusual to hear small-business owners gripe about licensing requirements or complain that heavy-handed regulations are driving them into the red.

So when Multnomah County shut down an enterprise last week for operating without a license, you might just sigh and say, there they go again.

Except this entrepreneur was a 7-year-old named Julie Murphy. Her business was a lemonade stand at the Last Thursday monthly art fair in Northeast Portland. The government regulation she violated? Failing to get a $120 temporary restaurant license.

Turns out that kids' lemonade stands -- those constants of summertime -- are supposed to get a permit in Oregon, particularly at big events that happen to be patrolled regularly by county health inspectors.

"I understand the reason behind what they're doing and it's a neighborhood event, and they're trying to generate revenue," said Jon Kawaguchi, environmental health supervisor for the Multnomah County Health Department. "But we still need to put the public's health first."

Julie had become enamored of the idea of having a stand after watching an episode of cartoon pig Olivia running one, said her mother, Maria Fife. The two live in Oregon City, but Fife knew her daughter would get few customers if she set up her stand at home.

Plus, Fife had just attended Last Thursday along Portland's Northeast Alberta Street for the first time and loved the friendly feel and the diversity of the grass-roots event. She put the two things together and promised to take her daughter in July.

The girl worked on a sign, coloring in the letters and decorating it with a drawing of a person saying "Yummy." She made a list of supplies.

Then, with gallons of bottled water and packets of Kool-Aid, they drove up last Thursday with a friend and her daughter. They loaded a wheelbarrow that Julie steered to the corner of Northeast 26th and Alberta and settled into a space between a painter and a couple who sold handmade bags and kids' clothing.

Even before her daughter had finished making the first batch of lemonade, a man walked up to buy a 50-cent cup.

"They wanted to support a little 7-year-old to earn a little extra summer loot," she said. "People know what's going on."

Even so, Julie was careful about making the lemonade, cleaning her hands with hand sanitizer, using a scoop for the bagged ice and keeping everything covered when it wasn't in use, Fife said.

After 20 minutes, a "lady with a clipboard" came over and asked for their license. When Fife explained they didn't have one, the woman told them they would need to leave or possibly face a $500 fine.

Surprised, Fife started to pack up. The people staffing the booths next to them encouraged the two to stay, telling them the inspectors had no right to kick them out of the neighborhood gathering. They also suggested that they give away the lemonade and accept donations instead and one of them made an announcement to the crowd to support the lemonade stand.

That's when business really picked up -- and two inspectors came back, Fife said. Julie started crying, while her mother packed up and others confronted the inspectors. "It was a very big scene," Fife said.

Technically, any lemonade stand -- even one on your front lawn -- must be licensed under state law, said Eric Pippert, the food-borne illness prevention program manager for the state's public health division. But county inspectors are unlikely to go after kids selling lemonade on their front lawn unless, he conceded, their front lawn happens to be on Alberta Street during Last Thursday.

"When you go to a public event and set up shop, you're suddenly engaging in commerce," he said. "The fact that you're small-scale I don't think is relevant."

Kawaguchi, who oversees the two county inspectors involved, said they must be fair and consistent in their monitoring, no matter the age of the person. "Our role is to protect the public," he said.

The county's shutdown of the lemonade stand was publicized by Michael Franklin, the man at the booth next to Fife and her daughter. Franklin contributes to the Bottom Up Radio Network, an online anarchist site, and interviewed Fife for his show.

Franklin is also organizing a "Lemonade Revolt" for Last Thursday in August. He's calling on anarchists, neighbors and others to come early for the event and grab space for lemonade stands on Alberta between Northeast 25th and Northeast 26th.

As for Julie, the 7-year-old still tells her mother "it was a bad day." When she complains about the health inspector, Fife reminds her that the woman was just doing her job. She also promised to help her try again -- at an upcoming neighborhood garage sale.

While Fife said she does see the need for some food safety regulation, she thinks the county went too far in trying to control events as unstructured as Last Thursday.

"As far as Last Thursday is concerned, people know when they are coming there that it's more or less a free-for-all," she said. "It's gotten to the point where they need to be in all of our decisions. They don't trust us to make good choices on our own."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/portland_lemonade_stand_runs_i.html

http://i583.photobucket.com/albums/ss273/DarthHonus29/1242180339343.png

Gnome Rage
08-05-2010, 03:34 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who read this and was like, wtf?

Kitsun
08-05-2010, 03:38 PM
Wow. $120 license. 240 glasses of lemonade to break even on that alone.

Tordane
08-05-2010, 03:40 PM
Man, times change so fast.

Deathravin
08-05-2010, 03:43 PM
Except this entrepreneur was a 7-year-old named Julie Murphy. Her business was a lemonade stand at the Last Thursday monthly art fair in Northeast Portland. The government regulation she violated? Failing to get a $120 temporary restaurant license.

That would lead me to believe she was actually AT a fair. That seems a bit too high-reaching for me. I mean a kid on a street corner is one thing. But a kid next to the hot-dog, popcorn and cotton candy stands I think would need a permit. Call me a socialist.

Carl Spackler
08-05-2010, 03:44 PM
Man, times change so fast.


Welcome to government and regulation. Costs go up everywhere.

Gnome Rage
08-05-2010, 03:44 PM
I think the most I ever made a lemonade stand was 50 bucks.

Carl Spackler
08-05-2010, 03:48 PM
There used to be an LPGA golf tournament at my country club, we'd set up shop right across the street. 100 bucks a day, easy.

Delias
08-05-2010, 04:35 PM
I think the most I ever made a lemonade stand was 50 bucks.

a "lemonade" stand, eh? Lemon and cocaine flavored snowcones for sale, that's my guess.

Gnome Rage
08-05-2010, 04:36 PM
a "lemonade" stand, eh? Lemon and cocaine flavored snowcones for sale, that's my guess.

>.> The UPS guy stopped twice and we filled his nalgene! He gave us 20 bucks!

ElvenFury
08-05-2010, 04:51 PM
That would lead me to believe she was actually AT a fair. That seems a bit too high-reaching for me. I mean a kid on a street corner is one thing. But a kid next to the hot-dog, popcorn and cotton candy stands I think would need a permit. Call me a socialist.
I only skimmed the first half of the article, but that's what it sounds like to me. Doesn't sound like it was the right place for a kid's stand.

Atlanteax
08-05-2010, 06:01 PM
"It's gotten to the point where they need to be in all of our decisions. They don't trust us to make good choices on our own."

About sums up "Big Government".

.


But county inspectors are unlikely to go after kids selling lemonade on their front lawn unless, he conceded, their front lawn happens to be on Alberta Street during Last Thursday.

telling them the inspectors had no right to kick them out of the neighborhood gathering.

Sounds like it was just a local block "fair" ... not one of those carnival-like fairs (where she would indeed be "competing" with hot-dog vendors and such, who all presumably obtained permits).

Definitely over-zealousness on the part of the health inspectors.

IorakeWarhammer
08-05-2010, 06:20 PM
what if the lemonade was unsanitary and then the city was sued for millions?

Paradii
08-05-2010, 06:23 PM
The event occurs on the last Thursday of every month, with art galleries changing displays. In warmer months, it becomes an outdoor party with the street closed to autos from 7 to 10 p.m. and buses rerouted. An estimated 10,000 people attend during the summer.

The festival is unique in that no single group runs it. Supporters are reluctant to charge vendor fees or to form an official board charged with taking responsibility for the event.


Source: http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/02/city_subsidy_for_popular_portl.html


Sounds like this is the fair. 10,000 people? Not your neighborhood block party, this is a real get together that is shutting down traffic.

Deathravin
08-05-2010, 06:25 PM
About sums up "Big Government".

.




Sounds like it was just a local block "fair" ... not one of those carnival-like fairs (where she would indeed be "competing" with hot-dog vendors and such, who all presumably obtained permits).

Definitely over-zealousness on the part of the health inspectors.


Surprised, Fife started to pack up. The people staffing the booths next to them encouraged the two to stay, telling them the inspectors had no right to kick them out of the neighborhood gathering. They also suggested that they give away the lemonade and accept donations instead and one of them made an announcement to the crowd to support the lemonade stand.

There WERE booths next to her... Here's the question of questions I think.

Did the event location require a permit in the first place? Did you have to go to a government building and schedule the time? or was it an ad-hoc block party?


After 20 minutes, a "lady with a clipboard" came over and asked for their license.

That makes it sound like it was a scheduled government permitted event. And the lady was just going around making sure everybody had obtained their permit.

Unfortunately the article is pretty heavily swayed so we're left in the dark on some specifics.

Drew
08-05-2010, 09:16 PM
That would lead me to believe she was actually AT a fair. That seems a bit too high-reaching for me. I mean a kid on a street corner is one thing. But a kid next to the hot-dog, popcorn and cotton candy stands I think would need a permit. Call me a socialist.

Even if it was at a fair there is no way in hell it costs 120 dollars to check and see if someone is making food in sanitary conditions. YOU are paying for this every time you eat.

phantasm
08-05-2010, 09:50 PM
This girl is going to grow up to be a country music artist now, good job.

Clove
08-05-2010, 10:07 PM
That makes it sound like it was a scheduled government permitted event. And the lady was just going around making sure everybody had obtained their permit.

Unfortunately the article is pretty heavily swayed so we're left in the dark on some specifics.Or it makes it sound like the officials knew there'd be a large gathering of people. It's actually a pretty informal event. Like a really big block party.

Tea & Strumpets
08-05-2010, 10:17 PM
Unfortunately the article is pretty heavily swayed so we're left in the dark on some specifics.

Yeah, that was pretty obvious from the gate. It's amazing how many people fall for the stereotype "poor little kid selling lemonade" without bothering with any of the details (like the law).

The writer of the article had way to many details that he/she accepted as fact, and the recitation of how much care the 7 year old had taken to use bottled water and to carefully cover the ice (and use a scooper!) was comical.

I saw some kids selling lemonade in my neighborhood a few weeks back, and felt obligated to stop and buy a glass. I took a fake drink and said "This is delicious!", then drove around the corner and dumped that toxic shit out. I'm sure those nosepicking little bastards had accidentally filled it with boogers.

On second thought, I am more likely to take the article at face value after reading the testimony of the fellow one booth over. You know, the anarchist guy.

Stretch
08-05-2010, 10:17 PM
I guarantee you that stand was just a meth stand in disguise.

Nieninque
08-05-2010, 10:27 PM
Sweet lemonade, Oooh Sweet lemonade.

Drew
08-05-2010, 10:32 PM
Sweet lemonade, Oooh Sweet lemonade.

Damn you, now I have to watch that 1000 times again.

Kuyuk
08-05-2010, 10:36 PM
lol, fucker.

radamanthys
08-06-2010, 12:29 AM
Crap.


Oh well. The health inspectors were playing by their rules. Doesn't mean the rules don't suck.

TheEschaton
08-06-2010, 09:32 AM
The rules are there so that when someone gets sick off an unlicensed booth at a permitted event (and I guarantee, if there are 10,000 people, and traffic is shut down, it's a permitted event), they don't sue the government for a million bucks as responsible.

-TheE-

Drew
08-06-2010, 09:35 AM
The rules are there so that when someone gets sick off an unlicensed booth at a permitted event (and I guarantee, if there are 10,000 people, and traffic is shut down, it's a permitted event), they don't sue the government for a million bucks as responsible.

-TheE-

A. It's a flaw if they can sue the government, that shouldn't be used to justify it.

B. It doesn't cost 120 bucks to inspect a lemonade stand.

Parkbandit
08-06-2010, 09:42 AM
The rules are there so that when someone gets sick off an unlicensed booth at a permitted event (and I guarantee, if there are 10,000 people, and traffic is shut down, it's a permitted event), they don't sue the government for a million bucks as responsible.

-TheE-

Yea.. I have to agree with the Commie on this. If it was a little kid on the corner of her neighborhood.. then I would say the government is doing what the government always does... goes overboard. This doesn't sound like the case.

Parkbandit
08-06-2010, 09:44 AM
A. It's a flaw if they can sue the government, that shouldn't be used to justify it.

B. It doesn't cost 120 bucks to inspect a lemonade stand.

You haven't priced licenses lately..

Many governments are raising fees to retarded levels to help fill the budget gap. Of course.. once the economy recovers, I'm sure the fees will revert back to their pre-recession levels.

TheEschaton
08-06-2010, 10:08 AM
Fees for licensing don't solely reflect inspection costs. In this case, with a "temporary restaurant license", I imagine the cost is intentionally prohibitive to make the vendor more responsible and less likely to be a fly-by-night sort of operation cutting all sorts of corners.

Celephais
08-06-2010, 10:49 AM
Fees for licensing don't solely reflect inspection costs. In this case, with a "temporary restaurant license", I imagine the cost is intentionally prohibitive to make the vendor more responsible and less likely to be a fly-by-night sort of operation cutting all sorts of corners.

Right... all those fly-by-night lemonade stands, you can only get lemonade made safely if it costs $4 a cup.

You can still be a shitty lemonade stand and overcharge/cut corners to make extra money to be able to afford the permit.

Clove
08-06-2010, 11:00 AM
Right... all those fly-by-night lemonade stands, you can only get lemonade made safely if it costs $4 a cup.

You can still be a shitty lemonade stand and overcharge/cut corners to make extra money to be able to afford the permit.

Ever have a frozen lemonade at a fair? 5 bucks at least. Now we know why. 7 year-olds could revolutionize competition. Personally I think this a conspiracy between government and big business...

Frankly, the Last Thursday crowd should just pass a hat for her permit (and the resulting event publicity wouldn't hurt either). Then the little tyke could make a "Legal Lemonade" sign and post her permit with pride.

Suppa Hobbit Mage
08-06-2010, 03:29 PM
Two little girls in my Neighborhood were GIVING away lemonade yesterday. If they are there again today I'm reporting them.

Paradii
08-06-2010, 03:36 PM
Ever have a frozen lemonade at a fair? 5 bucks at least. Now we know why. 7 year-olds could revolutionize competition. Personally I think this a conspiracy between government and big business...

Frankly, the Last Thursday crowd should just pass a hat for her permit (and the resulting event publicity wouldn't hurt either). Then the little tyke could make a "Legal Lemonade" sign and post her permit with pride.

Just heard on NPR that there is talk of staging a protest later this month where protesters are going to line the streets with lemonade stands, 100's of them.

CrystalTears
08-06-2010, 03:38 PM
So if she had a permit, would they have detained her mother for child labor? :D

Warriorbird
08-06-2010, 03:46 PM
My grandpa kicks out unlicensed vendors at his wine festival, no matter the age. I imagine it isn't much different when you're a city.

Drew
08-06-2010, 04:07 PM
Ever have a frozen lemonade at a fair? 5 bucks at least. Now we know why. 7 year-olds could revolutionize competition. Personally I think this a conspiracy between government and big business...


Actually it is. My dad started a company a long time ago in a market that was pretty much entirely unregulated. The successful companies in this field lobbied the Senate to set up "health and safety" regulations to "protect the consumer". Really they were just setting up huge barriers to entry, legally. They actually wrote the exact regulation word-for-word that was passed.

It's funny because my dad is a no-regulation small government kind of guy, but if you are allowed to set up a system that protects your business and drives away competition you would be stupid not to. Almost all government regulation is set up in nearly the exact same way for the exact same purposes. This is why I'm a libertarian, the only way to stop this kind of abuse it to not give the government to power to implement it.