Ten things that piss me off...

[Kithus]

1. Paying thousands of dollars into social security which will not cover me by the time I can retire. If we were all putting that into our 401k's we'd be golden at retirement age.

2. Welfare, in general. Anyone that should be on welfare should already be eligible for disability, unemployment or workman's comp.

3. The deterioration of the American family as a result of economic conditions. There is something fundamentally wrong with our society when both parents have to work to support a modest household and allow their children to be raised by strangers (daycare).

4. Mass health providing better health care for free than the coverage I pay for. I'm required to pay for both but only get the lesser of the two.

5. Big banks giving their executives multi million dollar bonuses while failing to pay their front line workers a living wage.

6. The complete inability of either of our major political parties to compromise and work together.

7. Tax deductions for charity. I don't give to charity as I would rather help out the people that matter to me. Why should tossing a few bucks at the Red Cross entitle someone to not pay their fair share of taxes. It's not really charity if you're filing it.

8. The top 1% of Americans control 42% of the wealth. The top 5% total 69% of the wealth. The top 10% have 80% of the wealth.

9. I'm sick of America being the worlds police force and nanny. Stop wasting money abroad and deal with problems at home. Afganistan was a problem for us. Iraq was a problem for its own people to solve.

10. Bailouts, of any kind, should never have been permitted. If a company fucked up they should go under. If someone fucked up when they bought their house, they should go bankrupt. No one is adjusting my mortgage because I was responsible when purchasing my home.

[Androidpk]

Home of the free.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I agree with some.

[Keller]

I disagree with some.

[AnticorRifling]

People that don't have access to the big picture but sure know how to fix it. They bug me, yup.

[Celephais]

Diatribes.

[Keller]

Soapboxes.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Charging for poonani.

[Kuyuk]

1. Paying thousands of dollars into social security which will not cover me by the time I can retire. If we were all putting that into our 401k's we'd be golden at retirement age.


You're paying for your parents/grandparents to live. Suck it up.



2. Welfare, in general. Anyone that should be on welfare should already be eligible for disability, unemployment or workman's comp.

Fucking retarded statement. Lookup welfare, as well as the other shit you just said. This doesn't even make sense to me.



3. The deterioration of the American family as a result of economic conditions. There is something fundamentally wrong with our society when both parents have to work to support a modest household and allow their children to be raised by strangers (daycare).

So you want a parent to be at home to raise kids, but do not support welfare? I understand they do not go hand in hand, but.. kinda of backwards statements. What do you think of WiC?




4. Mass health providing better health care for free than the coverage I pay for. I'm required to pay for both but only get the lesser of the two.

Why are you forced to pay for coverage?



5. Big banks giving their executives multi million dollar bonuses while failing to pay their front line workers a living wage.

Living wages differ, but I can agree with this for the most part.




6. The complete inability of either of our major political parties to compromise and work together.
Think of your top 10 list of things you hate. Could/would you compromise on some/all of these items to work together with someone with vastly different views?




7. Tax deductions for charity. I don't give to charity as I would rather help out the people that matter to me. Why should tossing a few bucks at the Red Cross entitle someone to not pay their fair share of taxes. It's not really charity if you're filing it.

If you dont give it, dont bitch about it. If people give 10% of their income to a cause, and not someone else, why should it not be deductible? They're not using it themselves.





8. The top 1% of Americans control 42% of the wealth. The top 5% total 69% of the wealth. The top 10% have 80% of the wealth.
Not sure what you're bitching about.. the fact you're poor, or the rich are super rich?



9. I'm sick of America being the worlds police force and nanny. Stop wasting money abroad and deal with problems at home. Afganistan was a problem for us. Iraq was a problem for its own people to solve.

Agree, and disagree. Look at the statistics of countries with armed forces, and ask yourself who is going to do something. While I agree we should focus the billions and billions of dollars we're losing in the middle east to our infrastructure, I think we could be of aid over there.



10. Bailouts, of any kind, should never have been permitted. If a company fucked up they should go under. If someone fucked up when they bought their house, they should go bankrupt. No one is adjusting my mortgage because I was responsible when purchasing my home.

Mostly agree. I do not agree with the bailouts of corporate companies that suck. Whats the difference between bailing out AIG, or poppa joe's restaurant that was open 47 years? The size? The amount of people affected by its closing? Let the big businesses fail, maybe we wont have so many monopolies.


Most of your items were "whaa whaa" items on your list, not actual things worth bitching about.

[Keller]

People that respond seriously to diary entries.

[AnticorRifling]

Transgenders?

[crb]

1. Paying thousands of dollars into social security which will not cover me by the time I can retire. If we were all putting that into our 401k's we'd be golden at retirement age.


Agreed.



2. Welfare, in general. Anyone that should be on welfare should already be eligible for disability, unemployment or workman's comp.


Agreed, and I'll go a step further. Unemployment benefits now last like 2 years, at what point do you stop extending them, why not just call it welfare?



3. The deterioration of the American family as a result of economic conditions. There is something fundamentally wrong with our society when both parents have to work to support a modest household and allow their children to be raised by strangers (daycare).


I don't mind modern families that much. I think though that this isn't the result of economic conditions, but lifestyles. People could live on one income, but would rather keep up with the Joneses and spend more, so they both work. Plus, women want to work, want to be independent of their husbands for financial security, and I see nothing wrong with that.



4. Mass health providing better health care for free than the coverage I pay for. I'm required to pay for both but only get the lesser of the two.

I have good insurance right now, probably would get taxed with the cadillac tax (which I'm in favor of, because it is a good idea), but I empathize with you.



5. Big banks giving their executives multi million dollar bonuses while failing to pay their front line workers a living wage.


When I hear the words "living wage" my eyes glaze over. It is one of those constructions like "undocumented immigrants" that annoys me. A bank teller is not a bad gig for someone with no schooling. Good hours, a pleasant working environment, decent pay. It isn't a career of course, not something to do the rest of your life, but it isn't a bad job.



6. The complete inability of either of our major political parties to compromise and work together.


Agreed. Stop thinking about what is best for your party or your own personal political future (Palin quitting like a punk) and do what is best for the country.



7. Tax deductions for charity. I don't give to charity as I would rather help out the people that matter to me. Why should tossing a few bucks at the Red Cross entitle someone to not pay their fair share of taxes. It's not really charity if you're filing it.

I can see your point. Many charities waste a lot of the money they bring in, or pay lavish salaries to their full time staffers and are more in the business of staying around, than helping people.



8. The top 1% of Americans control 42% of the wealth. The top 5% total 69% of the wealth. The top 10% have 80% of the wealth.


Strongly disagree, because guess who pays for pretty much the entire government? http://www.allegromedia.com/sugi/taxes/

Plus, a big chunk of the ultra rich wealth gets taxed upon their death. So it doesn't get passed on to the next generation.

More money is the incentive our society provides to people who work harder, who work smarter, who innovate, create, and invent. Without a reward we'd get less of all that. I do not begrudge Bill Gates his billions. Though, Vista pisses me off.



9. I'm sick of America being the worlds police force and nanny. Stop wasting money abroad and deal with problems at home. Afganistan was a problem for us. Iraq was a problem for its own people to solve.


Iraq is all but over though. And I too am annoyed by Team America World Police, but then again, we have the responsibility to act because we're the only country with the power to act (no other single country can match our military reach). One thing I dislike is politics influencing battle decisions. The job of a politician should be to set a goal for the military, NOT to tell the military how to reach that goal.



10. Bailouts, of any kind, should never have been permitted. If a company fucked up they should go under. If someone fucked up when they bought their house, they should go bankrupt. No one is adjusting my mortgage because I was responsible when purchasing my home.

100% agreed. I shed no tears for Dan and Nancy when they lose their home because they bought a $750,000 McMansion on a $50k a year income. The UAW bled GM dry, they should have had a normal bankruptcy with the UAW losing all promised benefits, as well as the enabling GM shareholders, executives, etc (instead of the rewrite of bankruptcy law the Obama administration finagled).

Banks are a slightly different story. For two reasons.

1. Maintaining the banking system is utterly important.
2. Banks were the most highly regulated area of of our economy, and many of the regulations contributed to their demise. If we really had a free market, they wouldn't have needed the bailouts. For instance there were procyclical regulations such as mark to market accounting which facilitated ever worsening downward spirals of bank balance sheets like a dominos setup from hell. The government had a hand in making the mess, they needed to clean it up. Note: this does not apply to insurers like AIG. Furthermore, the banks were not "Bailed out" as in given money. They were loaned money.

[Keller]

Plus, a big chunk of the ultra rich wealth gets taxed upon their death. So it doesn't get passed on to the next generation.


Wrong.

None of the "ultra rich wealth" gets taxed upon their death.

It all gets passed on to the next generation.

[radamanthys]

The money that people put into charity is a job the government doesn't have to do. And charities do it more efficiently than government could (volunteer labor, etc). So charitable donations reduce the need for taxes far more than they cause a loss in tax revenue.

By ending tax breaks for charitable donations, you basically nationalize charity. Many worthy causes would suffer- the arts, for one. As would medical research. And many others.

I wholeheartedly disagree.


And as to the distribution of wealth...
http://perotcharts.com/images/indicators/indicators07-640.png

If we want to talk fair share, here...

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Woohoo, I made top 25%!

[Kithus]

Why are you forced to pay for coverage?


I live in Massachusetts. We already face tax penalties if we don't have health care coverage. Hence why federal mandates on coverage don't bother me in the slightest.

[Kuyuk]

ok.

[Parkbandit]

Wrong.

None of the "ultra rich wealth" gets taxed upon their death.

It all gets passed on to the next generation.

It doesn't "all" get passes on.. since there are estate taxes. But, like all taxes, there are ways to reduce your liabilities.

[Keller]

It doesn't "all" get passes on.. since there are estate taxes. But, like all taxes, there are ways to reduce your liabilities.

There is not an estate tax.

[Kuyuk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

[Keller]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

I agree, there was an estate tax. And there will again be an estate tax.

There is not an estate tax.

[Latrinsorm]

More money is the incentive our society provides to people who work harder, who work smarter, who innovate, create, and invent.People who claim to believe this.

[Parkbandit]

There is not an estate tax.

So.. according to you.. when my wife and I die, my kids won't incur any tax on their inheritance?

Which country are you currently residing.. I might consider moving there if that's the case.

[Keller]

So.. according to you.. when my wife and I die, my kids won't incur any tax on their inheritance?

Which country are you currently residing.. I might consider moving there if that's the case.

I reside in the United States of America, where there is not an estate tax.

Your kids will not pay an estate tax. Your estate will.

I don't know why you accord those words to me, but I never once said anything similar to them. In order for me to have said the words you falsely attributed to me, I would have to know:

1) when you're going to die

2) the value of your estate

3) the value of gifts you've previously given your children.

I don't know, and never pretended to know, those things. Obviously I could not have proffered my opinion on whether your estate would pay a tax when you and wife die, because I don't have nearly enough information.

I can say that you provided the following facts:

1) January 12, 2010,

2) a ga-ja-billion-trillion dollars, and

3) a ga-ja-billion-trillion dollars,

I can say that your estate would not pay a tax.

[TheEschaton]

PB, the Estate tax expired on Jan 1st of this year, and will be reinstated Jan 1st of next year. Anyone who dies this year passes on their estate tax free.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

(So if you have any rich relatives, this is the year to off them in creative-but-untraceable ways).

[crb]

Wrong.

None of the "ultra rich wealth" gets taxed upon their death.

It all gets passed on to the next generation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

[crb]

The money that people put into charity is a job the government doesn't have to do. And charities do it more efficiently than government could (volunteer labor, etc). So charitable donations reduce the need for taxes far more than they cause a loss in tax revenue.

By ending tax breaks for charitable donations, you basically nationalize charity. Many worthy causes would suffer- the arts, for one. As would medical research. And many others.

I wholeheartedly disagree.


And as to the distribution of wealth...
http://perotcharts.com/images/indicators/indicators07-640.png

If we want to talk fair share, here...

Nice chart.

But lets be clear. It isn't charity, it is nonprofit.

I deduct my contributions to the Cato Institute for instance. They're not a charity.

[crb]

I agree, there was an estate tax. And there will again be an estate tax.

There is not an estate tax.

Don't be an ass.

[Emislity]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States

I just want you to be aware that Wikipedia isn't really a reliable source. Though here's an interesting article none-the-less.

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/fp/money/break/2420579/story.html

[Barundar]

I just want you to be aware that Wikipedia isn't really a reliable source.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4530930.stm

[Keller]

Don't be an ass.

Being right doesn't make me an ass.

:)

[Valthissa]

[quote=Kithus;1049754]
8. The top 1% of Americans control 42% of the wealth. The top 5% total 69% of the wealth. The top 10% have 80% of the wealth.
quote]

Very few people begin their life in the top 10% and end in the top 10%. Many people travel from the lowest quintile to the highest (me, for example).

Taking a snapshot of wealth at any given time isn't a meaningful statistic.

Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations is a very, very old saying. Look it up - if the distribution of wealth really bothers you that much, it should make you feel better.

C/Valth

[crb]

Being right doesn't make me an ass.

:)

Splitting hairs does. I don't think this thread was set as to discuss only this next year, but rather the direction of the country as a whole over time.

It'd be like if Kobe left the lakers, and had a contract to start with the Pistons, but the contract was not in force yet, and someone made a thread to discuss Kobe's future NBA prospects, and you said that Kobe was not an NBA player.

[Kithus]

I don't think this thread was set as to discuss only this next year, but rather the direction of the country as a whole over time.



No this thread was primarily started because I was cranky and wanted to bitch about a few things. Beyond that I wanted to point out that, despite my liberal views on health care reform, why I consider myself a moderate.

[Keller]

I don't think this thread was set as to discuss only this next year, but rather the direction of the country as a whole over time.

In that case I would say, "We don't have an estate tax because the Senate was not happy with the limited exclussion passed by the House. I'm glad that we're finally beginning to realize we should increase the exclussion to limit the number of estates that we tax."

Don't you think that is the right direction?

[Keller]

Splitting hairs does.

If by "splitting hairs" you mean saying precisely what I mean, regardless of whether you're too lazy to read it carefully - then I am not sorry.

[Celephais]

Hate to agree w/ crb, but you could have easily avoided the whole mess if you just said "The estate tax expired, it's not in effect right now, but it will be again" from the start, instead of your original baiting post.

[Cephalopod]

Hate to agree w/ crb, but you could have easily avoided the whole mess if you just said "The estate tax expired, it's not in effect right now, but it will be again" from the start, instead of your original baiting post.

Isn't part of the point of posting here to enjoy the baiting?

[Atlanteax]

Generally agree with: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7

6 = Probably a lost cause until a multi-party system

9 = the US is the world's police/nanny to preserve US hegemony

10 = Would prefer seeing limited bailouts in the form of a) nationalization and then gradually liquidation of assets or b) structured in a manner that makes it easier for healthy companies to assume control of the assets of the bankrupted... while fulfilling the objective of minimizing the negative impact to the US economy

[Keller]

Hate to agree w/ crb, but you could have easily avoided the whole mess if you just said "The estate tax expired, it's not in effect right now, but it will be again" from the start, instead of your original baiting post.

There are only 2, possibly 3, people I intentionally bait.

Let me have this little joy.