Election 09

[Parkbandit]

WASHINGTON – Independents who swept Barack Obama to a historic 2008 victory broke big for Republicans on Tuesday as the GOP wrested political control from Democrats in Virginia and New Jersey, a troubling sign for the president and his party heading into an important midterm election year.

Conservative Republican Bob McDonnell's victory in the Virginia governor's race over Democrat R. Creigh Deeds and moderate Republican Chris Christie's ouster of unpopular New Jersey Gov. Jon Corzine was a double-barreled triumph for a party looking to rebuild after being booted from power in national elections in 2006 and 2008.

Elsewhere on Tuesday, Maine voters rejected a state law that would allow same-sex couples to wed. If supporters had prevailed, it would have marked the first time that the electorate in any state endorsed gay marriage.

And Democrat Bill Owens captured a GOP-held vacant 23rd Congressional District seat in New York in a race that highlighted fissures in the Republican Party and illustrated hurdles the GOP could face in capitalizing on any voter discontent with Obama and Democrats next fall.

California Lt. Gov. John Garamendi, also a Democrat, won a special election to a vacant congressional seat, Ohio voters approved casinos and a slew of cities selected mayors, including New York, which gave Michael Bloomberg a third term.

The outcomes of Virginia and New Jersey were sure to feed discussion about the state of the electorate, the status of the diverse coalition that sent Obama to the White House and the limits of the president's influence — on the party's base of support and on moderate current lawmakers he needs to advance his legislative priorities.

His signature issue of health care reform was dealt a blow hours before polls closed when Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid signaled that Congress may not complete health care legislation this year, missing Obama's deadline and pushing debate into a congressional election year. Democrats in swing-voting states and moderate-to-conservative districts may be less willing to back Obama on issues like health care after Virginia and New Jersey showed there are limits to how much he can protect his rank and file from fallout back home.

The president had personally campaigned for Deeds and Corzine, seeking to ensure that independents and base voters alike turned out even if he wasn't on the ballot — and voters still rejected them. Thus, the losses were blots on Obama's political standing to a certain degree and suggested potential problems ahead as he seeks to achieve his policy goals, protect Democratic majorities in Congress and expand his party's grip on governors' seats next fall.

Interviews with voters leaving polling stations in both states were filled with reasons for Democrats to be concerned and for Republicans to be optimistic, particularly about independents — the crown jewel of elections because they often determine outcomes.

Independents were a critical part Obama's victory in Virginia, New Jersey and across the country. But after more than a year of recession, they fled from Democrats in the two states, where the economy trumped all.

The Associated Press exit polls showed that nearly a third of voters in Virginia described themselves as independents, and nearly as many in New Jersey did. They preferred McDonnell by almost a 2-1 margin over Deeds in Virginia, and Christie over Corzine by a similar margin.

Last year, independents split between Obama and Republican John McCain in both states.

In Virginia, McDonnell won by big margins in rapidly growing, far-flung Washington, D.C., suburbs — places like Loudoun and Prince William counties — that Republicans historically have won but where Obama prevailed last fall by winning over independents and swing voters. Republicans swept all three statewide Virginia offices up for election: governor, lieutenant governor and attorney general.

"Bob McDonnell's victory gives Republicans tremendous momentum heading into 2010," declared Haley Barbour, chairman of the Republican Governors Association. "His focus on ideas and pocketbook issues will serve as a model for Republicans running next year."

Said Tim Kaine, the Democratic National Committee chairman and the term-limited Virginia governor: "We are disappointed."

In both states, the surveys also suggested the Democrats had difficulty turning out their base, including the large numbers of first-time minority and youth voters whom Obama attracted. The Virginia electorate was whiter in 2009 than it was in 2008, when blacks and Hispanics voted in droves to elect the country's first black president.

Democratic victories in both Virginia, a new swing state, and New Jersey, a Democratic stronghold, in 2005 preceded big Democratic years nationally in 2006 and 2008.

Tuesday's impact on Obama's popularity and on the 2010 elections could easily be overstated. Voters are often focused on local issues and local personalities.

Yet, national issues, like the recession, were clearly a factor, with voter attitudes shaped to some degree by how people feel about the state of their nation — and their place in it.

And, voter attitudes — particularly among independents — could bode ill for Democrats in moderate districts and in swing states like Ohio, Colorado and Nevada, should they remain unchanged when the party seeks to defend its turf next fall. In 2010, most governors, a third of the Senate and all members in the House will be on ballots.

It's also difficult to separate Obama from the outcomes after he devoted a significant chunk of time working to persuade voters to elect Deeds in Virginia and re-elect Corzine in New Jersey.

More than four in 10 voters in Virginia said their view of Obama factored into their choice on Tuesday, and those voters roughly split between expressing support and opposition for the president. People who said they disapprove of Obama's job performance voted overwhelmingly Republican, and those who approve of the president favored Deeds, the Democrat.

The Obama factor was similar in New Jersey, though there were slightly more voters who said the president did not factor into their choice.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_election_rdp

My favorite part of this election day was Obama's response.. that he wasn't paying attention to these races.. that he actively campaigned for in the past month.

:rofl:

[Parkbandit]

Also decided Tuesday:

Voters rejected a state law Tuesday that would have allowed same-sex couples to wed. The repeal comes just six months after the measure was passed by the Maine legislature and signed by the Democratic Gov. John Baldacci.

Maine would have been the sixth state in the country to allow gay and lesbian couples to marry, but instead becomes the 31st state to oppose the unions in a popular vote.

With 87 percent of precincts reporting as of 2 a.m. today, gay marriage opponents claimed 53 percent of the vote to supporters' 47 percent.

Marc Mutty, campaign manager for Stand for Marriage Maine which opposed gay marriages, claimed victory at a rally in Portland just after midnight. "We've struggled, we've worked against tremendous odds, as we've all known," he said. "We prevailed because the people of Maine, the silent majority, the folks back home spoke with their vote tonight."

Gay-rights activists had hoped Maine voters -- known for thier moderate, independent-minded views -- would have been the first to endorse same-sex marriage in a statewide ballot. In the five states performing gay marriages – Iowa, Connecticut, Vermont, New Hampshire and Massachusetts -- the practice took effect after legislation or court order. New York and the District of Columbia recognize same-sex marriages performed in other states, but do not grant them.

"We're in this for the long haul. For next week, and next month, and next year until all Maine families are treated equally. Because in the end, this has always been about love and family and that will always be something worth fighting for," said Jesse Connolly of the pro-gay-marriage group Protect Maine Equality.

Sources inside the Protect Maine Equality campaign tell ABC News the referendum is likely headed for a statewide recount. After the Maine secretary of state certifies the results, the campaign will have to pay a nominal fee to request the count, which could take at least several weeks.

Both campaigns spent millions in out-of-state funds on rallies, phone calls, e-mails and ads in the days leading up to the vote, and their messages resonated among voters of both sides.

Mary Lou Narbus, a 51-year-old mother of three from Rockwood, Maine, told ABC News she's pleased Question 1 prevailed in rejecting same-sex marriage. "I believe that marriage is for a man and a woman... and I don't believe that [gay marriage] should be taught in school, period," she said.

Gay-marriage opponents had stressed the idea, disputed by supporters, that public schools would begin teaching children about unions between same-sex couples if the law were allowed to stand.

"That's a red herring," David Rutledge, a 43-year-old father of two in Bangor, told ABC News. "I have felt like this law was very important to equality."

Ellen Sanford McDaniel, 35, of Fairfield, Maine, said she's relieved the referendum passed, rejecting gay marriage. "I don't feel anybody has the right to redefine marriage," she said. "I would have been heartbroken for our country if it did not pass... We had a prayer night last night for it to go the way it should."

But gay marriage supporters, like Carole Cheeseman Russo, 65, of Carmel, Maine, says this vote likely won't be the last on the matter.

"No one in my family is gay – at least that I'm aware of -- but I just don't think anyone has the right to tell someone who they're allowed to love or who their allowed to marry ," she said. "[Same-sex marriage] has just got to come back."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/maine-gay-marriage-law-repealed/story?id=8992720

[Androidpk]

No change here in Boston.

[AnticorRifling]

I really don't get the same sex marriage bullshit. Two people getting married have no bearing on my life, let them. I'm conservative, not retarded, there is a difference.

[Apotheosis]

on a side note, I'm so glad a millage did NOT pass in my area...

[Sean]

Eh went out and voted, didn't win here in Jersey. C'est la vie, I don't pay property taxes directly so I expect minimal if any changes here in Jersey regardless of who won the race.

[Parkbandit]

I really don't get the same sex marriage bullshit. Two people getting married have no bearing on my life, let them. I'm conservative, not retarded, there is a difference.

Me either. Who the fuck really cares? How does this affect my life?

I don't get it... but then again, I'm pretty much anti-religion.

[Parkbandit]

Eh went out and voted, didn't win here in Jersey. C'est la vie, I don't pay property taxes directly so I expect minimal if any changes here in Jersey regardless of who won the race.

Let's be honest.. politicians are dirtbags, but Jon Corzine was a giant dirtbag.

I wish Bloomberg lost and that conservative in NY Dist. 23 won. Hopefully, both parties took notice what happened last night.. but I highly doubt it.

[Paradii]

Let's be honest.. politicians are dirtbags, but Jon Corzine was a giant dirtbag.

I wish Bloomberg lost and that conservative in NY Dist. 23 won. Hopefully, both parties took notice what happened last night.. but I highly doubt it.

Christie seems to be about equal in douchebagginess, but it's New Jersey, what can you possibly expect. I am just glad the TV commercials are over. I don't even live in the state, stop fucking buying ad time on PA stations!!!!

[Parkbandit]

Speaking of New York, it's hard to believe that the Democrat won in the heavily Republican area, especially since Palin/etc endorsed his opponent. Maybe too many people saw "Constitution party?" and backed off the other guy, come election day.

It's hard to believe.. only if you are ill informed or just plain stupid.

This "heavily Republican" area voted for Obama... yea, deep red there.

Liberal Democrat vs. Liberal "Republican" vs. Third Party Candidate.

Republican drops out of race, then immediately endorses Democrat.

It's not that hard to figure out.. just another prime example of how there will never be more than a two party system in this country.

[Parkbandit]

Christie seems to be about equal in douchebagginess, but it's New Jersey, what can you possibly expect. I am just glad the TV commercials are over. I don't even live in the state, stop fucking buying ad time on PA stations!!!!

There's a difference between dirtbags and douchebags.

[Clove]

Repulicans cross endorsed the Green Party candidates here and both won. Democrats have been obliterated from our town council for the first time in 20 years.

[Parkbandit]

Everything I'd seen claimed that the area had been a strong Republican area, but looking at their voting history, looks like they've had a Republican since the beginning of '93, but were Democratic for awhile before that.

Admittedly, I wasn't following the race very closely, but I think it's an example of how the contemporary Republican leaders are not willing to tolerate moderates or liberal-leaning Republicans. So Palin/Pawlenty/etc endorsed the rightist Constitution candidate, who lost.

If you are going to spin this, at LEAST get your facts straight. You are making assumptions, much like your assumption that it's a heavy Republican district... that are incorrect.

The "contemporary Republican leaders" are actually the ones that supported the very liberal Republican on the ticket. That forced the Conservative to go the route of third party.


The general Republican strategy of late has seemed to be, in response to independents/moderates leaving the party, "we need to shore up our conservative credentials: move further to the right, especially social conservative's version of right!" which turns off even more of the middle.


I disagree. The problem with the Republican party is that they forget or simply don't have their principles of smaller government, lower taxes and self responsibility. They listen to the Democrats and build this "Big Tent" to embrace all the "Republicans" like Spector, Snowe, Powell, McCain, etc... who are Republicans by name only.. which disenfranchises the true core of the party. I mean, come the fuck on.. Powell claims to be a Republican but endorses Obama? Obama stands for nothing that the Republicans have ever stood for!

[Tsa`ah]

You mean to tell me that two purple states elected governors from the opposing party? Shocker there.

This has no bearing on the national stage and has nothing to do with the President.

What does have a bearing, though small, is that the GOP lost a house seat to a democrat ... a seat held by the republicans since the civil war.

Thank you GOP for stabbing your own in the back ... thank you Rush, Palin, and the rest of you whackos (the real leadership) for the continued polarization of your own party.

[Sean]

Let's be honest.. politicians are dirtbags, but Jon Corzine was a giant dirtbag.

I wish Bloomberg lost and that conservative in NY Dist. 23 won. Hopefully, both parties took notice what happened last night.. but I highly doubt it.

Theres a general theme of apathy here (at least in the circles I run in) towards the Christie win. Most people were unethusiastic about Corzine going in but are about equally as unethusiastic about Christie coming out. I'll be interested to see how he deals with the budget shortfalls, short of firing everyone.

[Ravenstorm]

This is the kind of thing I've been seeing. Looking up the seat on Wikipedia though, it looks like a Democrat was elected as recently as 1989. So I don't really know where the disconnect is coming from, unless a bunch of news sources are just spewing outright (as opposed to thinly veiled) bullshit. Did they mean 1980s? Typo? That seems likely. Hm. I'll keep looking for examples.

It's because political districts change boundaries.

http://www.swingstateproject.com/diary/5072/amazing-political-history-of-ny23

[Warriorbird]

Creigh Deeds was from an area a lot of black Virginians aren't comfortable with. Then he positioned himself with redneck pandering. Bob McDonnell has positioned himself as a 'Northern Virginian.'

Dumb placement. Smart placement.

[Parkbandit]

There's apparently a difference between what you're calling "contemporary Republican leaders" and I am: the leaders of the party, on a national scale, are (tragically) people like Palin, Limbaugh, to a lesser extent Gingrich (and I was surprised to see him stand behind the GOP candidate). I don't think Steele does a good job of presenting any unified message or commands significant political clout.


There certainly is a difference. I'm actually calling the leaders of the Republican party the leaders.. you are taking Democratic talking points and calling people who aren't even holding an elected office of any sort the leaders.

Last I checked, Limbaugh, Palin and Gingrich didn't decide how the GOP spends their money on what candidates.

The rest of your post was pretty much nonsense and not worth replying to.

[Parkbandit]

You mean to tell me that two purple states elected governors from the opposing party? Shocker there.

This has no bearing on the national stage and has nothing to do with the President.

What does have a bearing, though small, is that the GOP lost a house seat to a democrat ... a seat held by the republicans since the civil war.

Thank you GOP for stabbing your own in the back ... thank you Rush, Palin, and the rest of you whackos (the real leadership) for the continued polarization of your own party.

:rofl:

You sound almost as stupid as Pelosi did.. declaring Democrat Victory last night.

[Parkbandit]

And last time I checked, Palin (especially in fundraising potential), Limbaugh and Gingrich are household names, and a lot of what they say is instantly shot across the world by the Drudge Report, Fox News and so on--I actively read political news, and very rarely see Steele's name mentioned, even though he is the de jure leader of the party.

Being a household name doesn't make anyone leader of an entire political party. Seriously, you should stop watching MSNBC for all of your political viewpoints... you are sounding dumber than normal.

Using your logic, Janeane Garofalo, George Clooney and Perez Hilton are the leaders of the Democratic Party.




Oh, and have fun addressing Raven's post about the district being heavily Republican, rather than being solely "my assumption."

That districts borders are moved all the time, depending on who's in power?

Yea.. that's difficult. Really.

[TheEschaton]

I think the 23rd going to a Democrat is a huge blow to the Republicans, personally, but I don't think you can deny that losing NJ to a Republican gov'r is a pretty big setback as well. Christie is corrupt (as well), and failed to be the whole "my hands are clean of this mess" candidate he portrayed himself to be.

Civil Unions passed in Washington, gay marriage overturned in Maine, who nevertheless expanded medical marijuana rights.

The Va. race was over months ago, imo.

I wanna hear from Gan, personally, on the Houston mayoral race. :P

[Methais]

I really don't get the same sex marriage bullshit. Two people getting married have no bearing on my life, let them. I'm conservative, not retarded, there is a difference.

Isn't the whole concept of "marriage" based in religion? If so that would be my guess as to why a lot of people are so against it.

I could care less about it either way, but why are they so hell bent on having the term "marriage" as opposed to just a civil union? Are the benefits (assuming marriage actually had benefits, for argument's sake) different between the two or something?

[TheEschaton]

In many places, yes, the benefits are different. And, as you noted, in places where they're called Civil Unions, but afforded the same rights as marriages, such as NJ, there's no additional push for them to be called "marriages."

I think the disturbing part of the whole Maine situation, imo, is how well the anti-gay marriage propoganda worked. They literally went around telling people that gay marriage would be TAUGHT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, and the ridiculous part is PEOPLE BELIEVED THEM.

[Paradii]

In many places, yes, the benefits are different. And, as you noted, in places where they're called Civil Unions, but afforded the same rights as marriages, such as NJ, there's no additional push for them to be called "marriages."

I think the disturbing part of the whole Maine situation, imo, is how well the anti-gay marriage propoganda worked. They literally went around telling people that gay marriage would be TAUGHT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, and the ridiculous part is PEOPLE BELIEVED THEM.

Have you spent any time in Maine? That doesn't strike me as ridiculous at all.

[Parkbandit]

I think the 23rd going to a Democrat is a huge blow to the Republicans, personally, but I don't think you can deny that losing NJ to a Republican gov'r is a pretty big setback as well. Christie is corrupt (as well), and failed to be the whole "my hands are clean of this mess" candidate he portrayed himself to be.

Civil Unions passed in Washington, gay marriage overturned in Maine, who nevertheless expanded medical marijuana rights.

The Va. race was over months ago, imo.

I wanna hear from Gan, personally, on the Houston mayoral race. :P

What exactly was the "blow"?

Let's be honest, it makes zero difference in the House. And that an independent was only 5% behind after having not only the Democrats but the Republicans campaigning and funding the campaign against a really boring accountant should make some politicians uneasy come 2010.

It looks like the pundits had the "republican" candidate right.. that she was a "Republican" in name only... she dropped out of the race and threw her sizable weight behind the Democrat in the race.

[Parkbandit]

Who's making assumptions now? I rarely read MSNBC (I don't "watch" news, dinosaur--I read it), and quite the opposite--I often read the Drudge Report and Fox News, along with the Washington Post and a few others.

Weird.. I knew about it.. yet you didn't. And by the way.. written news has been around FAR longer than televised news, Faggot.



Being the chairperson of the RNC doesn't make you the "leader of the party" if the person has no political clout--the people that get Republican voters out, and fired up, are the previously mentioned: not Michael Steele. The "establishment" supported the GOP candidate that dropped out, but the "leaders" of the party (minus Gingrich) supported the far-right Constitution party candidate.

If you put Limbaugh as a leader of the Republican party, then you agree that Janeane Garofalo is a leader of the Democratic party. If you put Palin as a key leader of the Republican Party, then you agree that Blagojevich is a key leader of the Democratic Party.

Or are you just picking the leaders you want to be portrayed as the leaders.. because at this point, it sure looks that way.


You claimed my assertion that NY-23 was a Republican-entrenched area was just "my assumption," and was "incorrect," despite being reported all over the place--Raven posted a source, and I just did. Address that. Do not backpedal.

Who the fuck is backpedalling? Obama won that district in 2008. Kerry almost won it in 2004. I wouldn't call that a "heavily republican" district.

[Parkbandit]

In many places, yes, the benefits are different. And, as you noted, in places where they're called Civil Unions, but afforded the same rights as marriages, such as NJ, there's no additional push for them to be called "marriages."

I think the disturbing part of the whole Maine situation, imo, is how well the anti-gay marriage propoganda worked. They literally went around telling people that gay marriage would be TAUGHT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, and the ridiculous part is PEOPLE BELIEVED THEM.

If you believe in the Bible, then you believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

It's not propaganda.. unless it's 1000+ year old propaganda.

[Sean]

Except the major examples of polygamous Biblical figures? And why exactly is the Bible dictating secular marriage law, anyway?

I'm generally not one to side with PB but why are you baiting him on this topic anyhow? It's pretty clear that he doesn't care.

[Sean]

Raven, I and the links we posted were both about the representative races--they hadn't elected a Democrat to represent them in the House for 100+ years. I'd say that's pretty solid "republican ground," and so would the other media sources Raven/I quoted, and I mentioned I'd seen. Your claim that it was "incorrect" and "my assumption" were bullshit. As usual.

On a scale of moderate to ultra conservative where did their electees generally fall?

[Parkbandit]

Except that I see

I think there is your answer... that is your opinion. One that is generally held by crazy ass liberals in a weak attempt at marginalizing the Republicans. I don't consider Blogo or Garafolo anymore the leaders of the Democrats than I do Palin and Limbaugh of the Republicans. Then again, unlike you.. I at least attempt to be intellectually honest. You don't even try.



The links Raven and I posted were both about the House representative races--they hadn't elected a Democrat to represent them in the House for 150 years. I'd say that's pretty solid "republican ground," and so would the other media sources Raven/I quoted, and I mentioned I'd seen. Your claim that it was "incorrect" and "my assumption" were bullshit. As usual.

I was making fun of your "heavily republican" term. Obviously it's not. Obviously you are wrong.. but hey, keep grasping at "But look who said it first!!"

It's not solid Republican ground when they vote for Obama and almost 50/50 for Kerry in 2 Presidential elections. Period.

[Parkbandit]

I have no idea.

BINGO.

[4a6c1]

Oh my word. The gay marraige thing is getting out of hand. Cant we just let go of state marriages. All marriages? Marriage is a religious institution to begin with, cant we just give it to the religions entirely and put an end to all state sanctioned marriages, PERIOD? It is so stupid lobbying to take the bible out of the courthouse and then trying to argue that we want all our crazy ass religious ceremonies recognized equally by the state. Likewise and equally stupid is saying that someone who performs buttseks with a man might single handedly ruin our war on terror.

Abolish state marriage. That is all.

/end rant

lolz@ purple states

You people want to see what happens in a libertarian leaning city when bi-partisan chaos insues??

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theworldnewser/2009/11/will-houston-elect-its-first-gay-mayor.html

[Cephalopod]

Abolish state marriage. That is all.


http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1966/sanctityofmarriage.jpg

[Latrinsorm]

I at least attempt to be intellectually honest.Isn't it curious how the article you cited devoted 44 (of 969) words to the Congressional election, and only 17 to California's Congressman Garamendi? How are those two outcomes any less of a "double-barreled triumph"?

[Parkbandit]

Um, no. "I see" as in: it's reported. Search Google News, the largest news aggregator, for the following terms:

Sarah Palin: 12,231 articles in recent postings
Rush Limbaugh: 6,198 articles
Glenn Beck: 4,241 articles
Michael Steele: 2,832 articles (more than I expected)
Newt Gingrich: 2,577 articles

President/Barack Obama: 150-180,000 articles
Rod Blagojevich: 1,421 articles
Janeane Garofalo: 48 articles

Translation: You're an idiot. It has nothing to do "my opinion." The major players in the Republican media sphere are not the de jure leaders like Steele--they're the radicals/sensationalists like Palin, Limbaugh, etc. People--politically--pay lots of attention to them. They, far and away, affect the political donations/turnout most strongly. No one pays attention to Janeane Garofolo and no one pays anything but /facepalm attention to Blagojevich. You're the one being intellectually dishonest, making false and irrelevant comparisons between Palin's/etc position in politics, and a minor celebrity/disgraced wash-up.

Wait.. you are using google to find out who has been mentioned the most in the news lately as the benchmark of who is the leader of a political party??

Holy fuck.. you are dumb as shit.

Here, you should google GOP LEADERSHIP. If you did, you would find out who is the actual leaders of the Republican Party. I'm pretty sure you would still be confused by this difficult task, so here you go.

Chairperson Michael Steele
Senate leader Mitch McConnell
House leader John Boehner

I'm even going to give you the leadership of the DNC so you can tell your Mommy you accomplished something today:

Chairperson Tim Kaine
Senate leader Joe Biden (President of the United States Senate)
Robert Byrd (Senate president pro tempore)
Harry Reid (majority leader)
House leader Nancy Pelosi (speaker)
Steny Hoyer (majority leader)

Notice the leadership isn't determined by who had the most news articles on Google News?

Holy fuck, you are dumb as shit.



HERE is the part that is arguably "my" opinion. However, I've seen as such repeated numerous times, by both conservative and liberal news sources. They were specifically referring to the district's voting record on the House.

So, according to your little world, an entire district can be labeled "Heavily Republican" by one elected position.. but not on how they vote for any other elected position.. even the President of the United States.

See above.. you are dumb as shit.



So I especially like how you've completely backpedaled/deflected from you being full of shit on the "your assumption" comment, and aren't even trying to be intellectually honest. Making you either delusional (BINGO!) and/or absolutely, 100% full of shit (DOUBLE BINGO!).

How the fuck am I backpedaling? Synopsis of our conversation:

You: District 23 is heavily Republican.
Me: No it's not... since they voted for Obama and almost 50/50 for Kerry
You: B-b-b-but NBC SAID IT WUZ, NOT ME!!
Me: You are dumb as shit. The district isn't heavily republican.
You: B-b-b-b-ut what about what Raven posted?
Me: District 23 isn't heavily republican.
You: U R DUM!!!

See above, you are seriously dumb as shit.

[Parkbandit]

Isn't it curious how the article you cited devoted 44 (of 969) words to the Congressional election, and only 17 to California's Congressman Garamendi? How are those two outcomes any less of a "double-barreled triumph"?

Not sure.. maybe you should write the author and bore them to tears with your stupidity?

[Androidpk]

Isn't the whole concept of "marriage" based in religion? If so that would be my guess as to why a lot of people are so against it.


Contrary to some opinions, marriage is not owned by religion. When you get a marriage license to marry do you get it from the church? No. You go to your local town hall to get one. Do marriage benefits come from your church? Nope. When you want a divorce do you go to your church to get one? Nope.

[Methais]

Contrary to some opinions, marriage is not owned by religion. When you get a marriage license to marry do you get it from the church? No. You go to your local town hall to get one. Do marriage benefits come from your church? Nope. When you want a divorce do you go to your church to get one? Nope.

I meant where it originally came from, as being a religious thing. Like 47382940237 years ago. Forgot to clarify :(

[Parkbandit]

And, like I said, there's a difference between the leader of the DNC/RNC de jure, and de facto. Leaders are the ones who set policy, have the most political clout.

Both political parties typically consider a sitting president as the leader of the political party, and whichever politicians have the strongest voice on the other side: and it is not any of the people occupying positions at the RNC. There is no unified "voice" of the Republicans--Steele is either ignored or criticized for lots of the things he's been doing. Such as the criticism of Limbaugh's extremism that he quickly backpedaled on.



Notice how we already talked about this previously, and yet here you are moronically bleating the same bullshit? I'm not disputing Steele holds the position of "chairperson," but that he holds very little clout, is ignored by both the media and other conservatives, and is far-and-away eclipsed by the de facto leaders of the party--especially Palin.



Again, it's not just "me" saying so. It was a bunch of different news sources--not just "MSNBC," and yet you declared it to be "my assumption." Making you wrong. Thanks. Windbag.



Angry neocon is angry! Oh, and wrong.

ACTUAL synopsis of our conversation:

Me: Hard to believe he won in a heavily republican area (as reported by the news sites mentioned later)
You: LAWL YOU R STUPID OR IGNORANT, THEY IZ NOT REPUBLICAN!
Me: Really? That's what I've read, but haven't paid that close attention.
You: You are making *assumptions!* LULZ! INCORRECT ASSUMPTIONS!
Me: I didn't assume--that's what I read.
Raven: *posts source confirming what I said*
Me: *posts source confirming what I said*
You: *refuses to address accusations of "assuming" being wrong*
Me: Um? Hello? Do not backpedal: Address your accusations of my "assuming."
You: Rambling, hostile banter -- refusing to address accusations
You: Rambling, hostile banter -- refusing to address accusations
Me: Um? Hello? Do not backpedal: Address your accusations of my "assuming."
You: Rambling, hostile banter -- refusing to address accusations
Me: Explaining what you've done until now.
Done.

You are a jackass, PB. Evasive when wrong, and love to focus on tangents as to deflect addressing your mistakes. What I disputed was not "b-b-b-but NBC said.." it was: You said I *assumed* rather than took numerous news sources at their word. You were wrong, as numerous sources back me up--they, at least, consider it a republican-heavy area. I did not "assume" anything. Have fun bullshitting your response to this.

Quoting this for posterity.. by tomorrow, you will realize how utterly stupid (but entertaining) you've been in this thread and want to delete it. This prevents such a travesty and will keep this for others to be entertained for years to come.

So to summarize:

1) Dist 23 is highly Republican, not because it's voted for Republicans, but because NBC said it was.

2) Palin, Limbaugh and Beck are the leaders of the Republican Party because they have more google news articles than Steele, McConnell and Boehner.

Awesome. Really.

[Androidpk]

I meant where it originally came from, as being a religious thing. Like 47382940237 years ago. Forgot to clarify :(

I actually did some quick research on this subject, I had a mock trial in my government class concerning gay marriage rights in California. I couldn't find any religious links to marriage in its earliest forms. I believe the first records of marriage are found in the Code of Hammuraby, around 1790 BC.

[Paradii]

I actually did some quick research on this subject, I had a mock trial in my government class concerning gay marriage rights in California. I couldn't find any religious links to marriage in its earliest forms. I believe the first records of marriage are found in the Code of Hammuraby, around 1790 BC.


1790 BC? Isn't that the same year the jews were burying the dinosaur bones?

[Parkbandit]

By all means, please do quote it "for posterity." It shows how incapable you are of understanding English.

1) I am not arguing whether or not it IS a liberal or conservative district--only that it was not "my assumption" that NY-23 was Republican. Are you SERIOUSLY not able to understand this? It may or may not be liberal, conservative, or whatever. But I did not just "assume" it was. I saw it in several places and it didn't seem contentious.

2) That's not what makes them the leaders--that's just an example of how much more media attention they garner. Ask any person on the street, Republican or not, and they can tell you who Sarah Palin is. Ask someone who Michael Steele is? Blank stares, a lot of the time--even from self-identifying Republicans. Palin is immensely popular, for whatever reason, among the religious right; she attracts lots of attention to events she attends and is a good fundraiser. Steele, on the other hand, is more of an administrator. He does not "set the tone" for the party--people out there being elected (or coming close to it), getting votes and raising the war chests do.

By your logic, Howard Dean was the "leader" of the Democratic party, despite his voice having been totally marginalized, or Tim Kaine now being the "leader" of the party, rather than its strongest voice and the essentially single-handedly setting policy and discussion: Obama.
---

I repeat: You're a jackass, and you're full of shit.

1) Ok.. it wasn't your assumption.. it was your ill informed ignorance. Point you and I formally withdraw the term "Assumption" and replace it with "stupid ignorance"

2) Again.. this is your opinion. When $600,000 went to support the "republican" candidate in NY Dist 23, it wasn't Palin or Limbaugh that ordered that money.. it was the.. and here's the key word.. "LEADERSHIP" of the Republican Party that made that decision. Last I checked, Palin didn't hold an elected office and Limbaugh/Beck are radio personalities.

I repeat: You're a fucking retard.

PS - Paris Hilton must be a huge movie star to you, because she has more google searches than Hillary Swank!

PPS - I repeat: You're a fucking retard.

[Parkbandit]

Wow. You, even in your usual reactionary, delusional way, admitted you were wrong, even if you meant it as a smarmy jab. You were full of shit, and admitted it. Excellent. There's nowhere for you to go but up, at this point.

Quite the Queen of spin, aren't you? You posted something stupid.. I called you out on it.. you apologized for being stupid and then blamed it on NBC..

And I'm wrong.

:rofl:

That's awesome.




And how many people donated personally, rather than to the RNC's coffers, at Palin's behest? How much money was donated?


So wait.. Palin is the leader because she has more google news articles.. and people donated to someone because she endorsed them.

That's awesome.



And I repeat: You're delusional, make half-baked, nonsense comparisons that you *know* are bullshit, simply in order to avoid having to address the *many* cases where you're wrong. You are a dumbass windbag.

Right back at you Earl

[Parkbandit]

Bold and italics.. you are upset.

So, we both agree you were ill-informed and your ignorance was on full display. CHECK.

[Ravenstorm]

Will you two just have sex already and get it over with?

[Keller]

I don't think Ashliana is attracted to PB.

Otherwise, I could see it happening.

[Skeeter]

I'm just glad Ohio FINALLY approved casinos. I got tired to driving to EVERY neighboring state to win some money.

I think the amish were holding it up.

[Gan]

I wanna hear from Gan, personally, on the Houston mayoral race. :P

Its a huge deal that the primary GOP candidate got 20% of the vote and yet did not make the runoff between the top 2 democrat candidates - 20% for a GOP candidate in Houston is a big deal. No surprise overall since local leadership tends to trend Democrat here in Houston for quite some time now. Hell, I even voted for the last Democrat mayor (Bill White).

So now we have the choice of voting for a gay white woman (Kathy Whitmire revisit) and former city comptroller or a charismatic black attorney and former civil rights activist. (I met Locke last month at a Houston Area Realtors luncheon and he's got quite a presence about him.) Locke has Bob Lanier's endorsement and that carries lots of weight. Of the two I'm leaning towards Locke because I think he can get things done whereas Parker shows a tendancy to get bogged down in the body politik and red tape.

Either way, neither candidate is a Bob Lanier or a Bill White. That being said, my vote will probably go for Locke (thats my slant for now - I'm constantly evaluating and will watch the runoff races closely to see how they behave and how they refine their positions and race to the middle.

Propositions 2,3,5 passed for the state amendments - and thats hugely important. Overall low Texas voter turnout for the state issues (6%).

[Gan]

I don't think Ashliana is attracted to PB.

Otherwise, I could see it happening.

PB asked to get IT back - he deserves everything IT dishes out. I tend to skim over ITS posts anyways...

[Mabus]

I'm just glad Ohio FINALLY approved casinos. I got tired to driving to EVERY neighboring state to win some money.

I think the amish were holding it up.
I voted for it, but only barely.

I did not want it to be constitutionally guaranteed to only two groups, nor did I think it should have been placed in the Ohio Constitution. I would have rather seen it legalized constitutionally, and then left to the state legislature, and localities, to further regulate.

I am not a gambler (well, not a casino, card-playing, money-wagering, lottery-playing gambler), but I am for individual liberty and I could care less what others do with their own money.

[Latrinsorm]

Palin is the leader because she has more google news articles.. and people donated to someone because she endorsed them.A leader without followers is not much of a leader.
So now we have the choice of voting for a gay white woman (Kathy Whitmire revisit) and former city comptroller or a charismatic black attorney and former civil rights activist.What is up with former city comptrollers running for mayor in major U.S. cities?

[Keller]

I am not a gambler (well, not a casino, card-playing, money-wagering, lottery-playing gambler), but I am for individual liberty and I could care less what others do with their own money.


I find [gambling] wasteful and ignorant.

Unh huh.

That thread was a serious walk down (recent) memory lane.

And Clove, you still owe me 500k silvers.

[Skeeter]

I voted for it, but only barely.

I did not want it to be constitutionally guaranteed to only two groups, nor did I think it should have been placed in the Ohio Constitution. I would have rather seen it legalized constitutionally, and then left to the state legislature, and localities, to further regulate.

I am not a gambler (well, not a casino, card-playing, money-wagering, lottery-playing gambler), but I am for individual liberty and I could care less what others do with their own money.

It will be at least 3 years before the first casino opens. I bet we see some tweaks to the law on the ballet by then. This was just the first step to force the administration to address the issue instead of just covering their ears and going nah-nah-nah like they have for the last 15.

[TheEschaton]

PB, for someone who doesn't think Palin, Rush, Hannity et al are leaders of the GOP, you seem to be toeing their line pretty well.

1) District 23 has not voted for a Democrat Representative for more than 100 years. While this doesn't make it "conservative", it makes it a Republican district. Your proof that it isn't is the Obama election, where a historically transformative candidate proved an exception, and that Kerry "almost" won the district. That is unreasonable, yet it also coincides with the viewpoint of the far right who wish to downplay how their ultra-conservative candidate *) lost to a democrat, and B) was so out of tough with local Republicans tat local rwepublicans endorsed the moderate Democrat instead.

[TheEschaton]

And 2) while not leaders in the literal sense, folks like Rush, Palin, and Hannity have become the mouthpieces for the party, and thus have as much, if not more sway, in the party. They are literally the "vox populi" of the GOP.. The last time Garafalo was culturally relevant was "Dogma", not to mention SHE'S A COMEDIENNE. To equate the former with the latter is ludicrous at best. Further, to say you don't see them as leading the GOP whilst parroting their every line and ignoring that of actual bonafide "leaders" like Steele and actual congressional Republicans is hilarious.

[Back]

rofl @ this thread.

HUGE WIN FOR THE REPUBLICANS!!!!

Dude, its two governor seats on an off election year... its not all REFERENDUM!

Well, it is referenDUMB.

[Mabus]

not to mention SHE'S A COMEDIENNE.
So was Senator Al Franken. Several politicians were entertainers (comedians, actors, athletes) before their political careers.

Senator Mitch McConnell, Congressman John Boehner, and RNC Chairman Michael Steele are the current leaders of the GOP.

Anything other then that is an attempt to marginalize those individuals by using the DNC talking points.

Out of the 3 only Boehner is very active on the media circuit, with Steele a close second.

Steele's (seemingly) forced black-colloquialisms are a bit jarring to me. It is as if he is trying to play his race to much for his party. If I was an adviser I would tell him to tone that down, be professional and be forceful with an agreed upon agenda in his message.

Should the media say Keith Olbermann is a leader of the Democratic Party? Of course not. He is as big a buffoon as Rush, and both are media pitchmen playing to their own demographics.

[Gan]

What is up with former city comptrollers running for mayor in major U.S. cities?

This part of the business cycle always makes for a good opportunity to demonstrate fiscal responsibility - and who better to do that than a successful comptroller.

[Parkbandit]

I don't think Ashliana is attracted to PB.

Otherwise, I could see it happening.

Dude.. seriously, stop projecting.

I'm not the guy who posted these:


Just for this post I am felating the first man I see tomorrow morning (it's midnight Paris time). I have no gag reflex.


I'd watch some porn to learn how to do it, too. (Not the deep-throat BS, just good ol' handS and mouth coordination.)

Unlike you, I'm a very strict heterosexual... I don't fantasize about sucking off another guy. Sorry :(

[Parkbandit]

PB, for someone who doesn't think Palin, Rush, Hannity et al are leaders of the GOP, you seem to be toeing their line pretty well.

So.. I can assume that Chavez and Castro are your leaders.. since you share many political views with them? Or do they need a certain number of google news articles to actually BE your "leaders"?




1) District 23 has not voted for a Democrat Representative for more than 100 years. While this doesn't make it "conservative", it makes it a Republican district. Your proof that it isn't is the Obama election, where a historically transformative candidate proved an exception, and that Kerry "almost" won the district. That is unreasonable, yet it also coincides with the viewpoint of the far right who wish to downplay how their ultra-conservative candidate *) lost to a democrat, and B) was so out of tough with local Republicans tat local rwepublicans endorsed the moderate Democrat instead.

Fine. District 23 is a heavily republican area of the country that simply forgot their principles when they voted for Obama, Kerry and now Owens. I will have to get the leaders Palin, Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck up to that area immediately and have them set those hicks straight.

[Parkbandit]

And 2) while not leaders in the literal sense, folks like Rush, Palin, and Hannity have become the mouthpieces for the party, and thus have as much, if not more sway, in the party. They are literally the "vox populi" of the GOP.. The last time Garafalo was culturally relevant was "Dogma", not to mention SHE'S A COMEDIENNE. To equate the former with the latter is ludicrous at best. Further, to say you don't see them as leading the GOP whilst parroting their every line and ignoring that of actual bonafide "leaders" like Steele and actual congressional Republicans is hilarious.

Garafalo has a liberal leaning political radio show. She's been very outspoken of the tea parties and has been on numerous shows detailing her liberal views.

What is hilarious is that you believe successful talk show hosts are the leaders of a political party. If that was the case, then why is it the Republican Party dumped hundreds of thousands of dollars on the Republican candidate in District 23 NY.. when the "leaders" like Limbaugh, Palin and Beck said not to?

[TheEschaton]

Who here has actually heard Garafalo's radio show? I'm perhaps one of the most liberal people on this forum, and I couldn't even tell you what radio station it's on, let alone claimed to have heard it.

Rush, though, brags about his millions and millions of viewers.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

Oh, and on the funding thing:



Michael Long, chairman of the Conservative Party of New York, is urging fellow conservatives not to contribute to the National Republican Congressional Committee.
His complaint: The NRCC is supporting the Republican candidate in New York’s 23rd Congressional District, who he says is out of step with GOP values.

The Republicans have nominated centrist State Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava as their candidate in the special election to be held on Nov. 3. In response, the Conservative Party nominated its own candidate, local accountant Doug Hoffman. Hoffman has been getting some traction, winning endorsements from several conservative groups and garnering 16% support in a recent poll. That has Republicans worried he will siphon support from Scozzafava and let Democrat Bill Owens pull off a victory.

Errr, it's quite simple, the RNC funded her because she was the GOP candidate. It's also quite simple to see that once she dropped out, they funded Hoffman.



Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele says the committee is endorsing the conservative in New York’s 23rd Congressional District race after Republican Assemblywoman Dierdre Scozzafava suspended her campaign and released her supporters.

http://online.wsj.com/media/NewYork_SpecialElection_D.jpgAssociated Press
Calling Scozzafava’s move a “selfless act,” Steele says the RNC’s change of course is effective immediately and will include financial backing and get out the vote efforts for Conservative candidate Doug Hoffman.

Wierd, how a little research can actually dispel the talking points you're given. The liberal rag source I got all this from: The Wall Street Journal.

[Parkbandit]

Who here has actually heard Garafalo's radio show? I'm perhaps one of the most liberal people on this forum, and I couldn't even tell you what radio station it's on, let alone claimed to have heard it.

Rush, though, brags about his millions and millions of viewers.

-TheE-

Well, in your defense, there isn't and has never been a successful liberal political radio program... so it's difficult to compare it to Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck.. who have very highly rated programs.

[Parkbandit]

Oh, and on the funding thing:



Errr, it's quite simple, the RNC funded her because she was the GOP candidate. It's also quite simple to see that once she dropped out, they funded Hoffman.



Wierd, how a little research can actually dispel the talking points you're given. The liberal rag source I got all this from: The Wall Street Journal.

Which talking point did that just dispell? You do realize that just confirmed everything I have stated here, right?

And I love how Steele said Dierdre Scozzafava was "selfless" for backing out of the election.... right before she put her enormous weight behind the Democrat in the race.

[TheEschaton]

You asked why the GOP funded Scozzafava when Rush et al said not to, the negative inference being that they should have funded Hoffman.

The problem is, Scozzafava was the pick of the local GOP committee, and thus was obligated to be funded by the RNC, but as soon as she dropped out, the RNC was MORE than eager to fund the NON-GOP third party candidate.

I don't know if you know funding rules: IF there is a R, a D, and a C, the GOP funds the R. If there is only a D and a C, they can fund whomever, in this case, the C. If it was only a D and an S(ocialist), they could have very well funded the D.

ETA: To sum up, the National RNC were drooling all over Hoffman, but couldn't fund him until the Republican Candidate dropped out. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that she was pressured out by folks in the national party structure.

-TheE-

[Parkbandit]

You asked why the GOP funded Scozzafava when Rush et al said not to, the negative inference being that they should have funded Hoffman.

The problem is, Scozzafava was the pick of the local GOP committee, and thus was obligated to be funded by the RNC, but as soon as she dropped out, the RNC was MORE than eager to fund the NON-GOP third party candidate.

I don't know if you know funding rules: IF there is a R, a D, and a C, the GOP funds the R. If there is only a D and a C, they can fund whomever, in this case, the C. If it was only a D and an S(ocialist), they could have very well funded the D.

ETA: To sum up, the National RNC were drooling all over Hoffman, but couldn't fund him until the Republican Candidate dropped out. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that she was pressured out by folks in the national party structure.

-TheE-

You do realize that the RNC's goal is to not have Democrats elected.. right? If the "Republican" nominee drops out (after receiving more than a half million from the RNC), you can understand their position that they should back whoever is going against the Democrat?

The RNC was never "drooling" over Hoffman. They backed Scozzafava from the get go. It was only when she decided to drop out 5 days before the election that the RNC was forced to "back" the Conservative from a 3rd party.

[TheEschaton]

Your willful ignorance is sometimes astounding.

-TheE-

[Parkbandit]

Your willful ignorance is sometimes astounding.

-TheE-

I was just about to say the same about you. :)

But I did love your fictionalized story, based on real events though. It was entertaining.

[TheEschaton]

You know literally nothing about funding local congressional races and party politics, except as expounded to you by Rush and Hannity.

[Atlanteax]

http://cagle.com/working/091104/beeler.jpg
http://cagle.com/working/091104/allie.jpg

[Atlanteax]

I think the biggest change has been more people disillusioned by the Obama rah-rah-RAH!!

[Warriorbird]

Not really seeming that way. His approval's about the same as what he was elected with.

Deeds' biggest stupid move in VA was trying to distance himself from Obama. Black Virginia Democrats said "Fuck you!" to Deeds and the entire election.

[Parkbandit]

You know literally nothing about funding local congressional races and party politics, except as expounded to you by Rush and Hannity.

Careful now.. your hypocrisy is showing up again.

What exactly have you brought to light here.. except that you feel that Scozzafava was forced out by the GOP.. and that you think that the RNC was drooling to support the conservative party in this race?

You are funny. Thank you for bringing the "facts" to yet another political thread.

[TheEschaton]

If you think Michael Steele would have supported a non-GOP ticket candidate with funds while there was a GOP selected candidate in the field, if he really liked that candidate better, you're delusional. Simple as that.

[Parkbandit]

Not really seeming that way. His approval's about the same as what he was elected with.

Deeds' biggest stupid move in VA was trying to distance himself from Obama. Black Virginia Democrats said "Fuck you!" to Deeds and the entire election.



Obama's job approval rating in mid February: 65% ish. http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obama.php

Obama's job approval rating in November: 51% http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obama.php

[EasternBrand]

there isn't and has never been a successful liberal political radio program....

http://imagecache5.art.com/p/LRG/27/2701/I5BND00Z/thomas-mcavoy-president-franklin-d-roosevelt-making-a-fireside-chat-speech-on-radio-during-wwii.jpg

[Parkbandit]

If you think Michael Steele would have supported a non-GOP ticket candidate with funds while there was a GOP selected candidate in the field, if he really liked that candidate better, you're delusional. Simple as that.

Not sure where you got this from...

I don't think Steele ever liked the Conservative candidate and was forced to back him 5 days before the election when the "republican" dropped out.

YOU stated that the GOP/RNC were "drooling" over the conservative candidate. I disagree.

[Methais]

Who here has actually heard Garafalo's radio show? I'm perhaps one of the most liberal people on this forum, and I couldn't even tell you what radio station it's on, let alone claimed to have heard it.

Doesn't that apply to all liberal radio shows?

[Keller]

Doesn't that apply to all liberal radio shows?

Probably.

Because liberals don't mind reading / can read.

:flamewar:

[Methais]

Probably.

Because liberals don't mind reading / can read.

:flamewar:

http://motivateurself.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/implied-facepalm.jpg

[TheEschaton]

So, Methais, you agree that comparing Rush to Garafalo in terms of being "influential pundits of their party" is asinine, no? ;)

[Methais]

I don't think it's a good comparison, because Rush is relevant, and Garafalo is not.

It's asinine, yeah, but no more asinine than calling Rush the leader of the Republican party.

Plus Chloe O'Brien is 47283094x hotter than Garafalo on 24, making her even less relevant.

[Parkbandit]

So, Methais, you agree that comparing Rush to Garafalo in terms of being "influential pundits of their party" is asinine, no? ;)

You argued that Limbaugh was the "leader" of the Republican Party. Now you've conveniently changed it to an "influential pundit"?

Nice backpedal... thanks for proving me correct.

[TheEschaton]

You realized you proved my point, right? You (general) claim that A) calling Rush the leader of the GOP is like calling Garafalo the leader of the Dems, B) you acknowledge that the latter has lower to almost non-existent following, because C) Rush is "relevant," IE, you follow his views.

Nice little circle coming back to my original point, Rush is a mouthpiece of the Republican party, and people look to him for the "relevant view."

At this point, I want to LOL@u for thinking Rush is relevant, btw.

-TheE-

[TheEschaton]

I said mouthpiece.

[TheEschaton]

And 2) while not leaders in the literal sense, folks like Rush, Palin, and Hannity have become the mouthpieces for the party, and thus have as much, if not more sway, in the party. They are literally the "vox populi" of the GOP.. The last time Garafalo was culturally relevant was "Dogma", not to mention SHE'S A COMEDIENNE. To equate the former with the latter is ludicrous at best. Further, to say you don't see them as leading the GOP whilst parroting their every line and ignoring that of actual bonafide "leaders" like Steele and actual congressional Republicans is hilarious.

Just in case you can't read posts 2 pages back.

[Parkbandit]

You realized you proved my point, right? You (general) claim that A) calling Rush the leader of the GOP is like calling Garafalo the leader of the Dems, B) you acknowledge that the latter has lower to almost non-existent following, because C) Rush is "relevant," IE, you follow his views.

Nice little circle coming back to my original point, Rush is a mouthpiece of the Republican party, and people look to him for the "relevant view."

At this point, I want to LOL@u for thinking Rush is relevant, btw.

-TheE-

Sweet Jesus.. I can't keep up with your constantly changing opinions.

If Limbaugh is the leader of the Republican Party, then of course he's relevant.

If Limbaugh is the "influential pundit", then of course he's relevant.

What is he now that you somehow decided that he's not relevant?

[TheEschaton]

I never said he was the leader of the GOP, or even a leader. I said he, Hannity, Palin, have become mouthpieces for the GOP. You seem to imply that it's patently absurd to consider him as such, but then acknowledge he's relevant to the party.

-TheE-

[Methais]

2) while not leaders in the literal sense, folks like Rush, Palin, and Hannity have become the mouthpieces for the party, and thus have as much, if not more sway, in the party.

They're more mouthpieces for conservatism than for the republican party. Not all republicans are conservative, and not all conservatives are republican.

Also when I said Rush is relevant, I meant that as in people give a shit about what he says. In Garofalo's case, most people don't even know she exists.

[TheEschaton]

If not all Republicans are conservative, what was the problem with running a moderate Republican in NY-23?

OH RIGHT, SHE WASN'T CONSERVATIVE.

[Methais]

If not all Republicans are conservative, what was the problem with running a moderate Republican in NY-23?

OH RIGHT, SHE WASN'T CONSERVATIVE.

http://stellarspectral.com/memes/trlht.jpg

[TheEschaton]

It's even brown, just like me! I see you can't refute the logical circles I'm running around you, so you've resorted to posting pictures. Good job.

[Parkbandit]

If not all Republicans are conservative, what was the problem with running a moderate Republican in NY-23?

OH RIGHT, SHE WASN'T CONSERVATIVE.

They were running a "moderate republican".. she decided to drop out of the election.

Republicans are chuck full of "moderate" republicans... I simply don't support them most of the time. Read: McCain, Snowe, Specter, Graham, etc... Hell, I can name more "moderates" than I can real conservatives.

[Methais]

I didn't pay much attention to the NY-23 election, but everything I heard about the "moderate" was that she was more liberal than moderate.

Plus, what kind of "moderate" endorses the other party after she drops out?


It's even brown, just like me!

I'm such a racist.

Not all republicans are conservative. But they should be.

[TheEschaton]

You don't know the definition of liberal, then, if you thought Scozzafava was liberal. She was a center right moderate all the way. She was ousted by far right elements who didn't want someone so close to the middle to represent them.

You guys simply need to give up - you can't argue Rush is not a mouthpiece for the party but is more relevant to the millions of people who listen to him than ALL those Republicans PB just mentioned. Nor can you argue that Garafalo is in a similar role where people listen to her over party leaders such as Obama, Clinton, etc, etc.

[Methais]

You don't know the definition of liberal, then, if you thought Scozzafava was liberal. She was a center right moderate all the way. She was ousted by far right elements who didn't want someone so close to the middle to represent them.

You guys simply need to give up - you can't argue Rush is not a mouthpiece for the party but is more relevant to the millions of people who listen to him than ALL those Republicans PB just mentioned. Nor can you argue that Garafalo is in a similar role where people listen to her over party leaders such as Obama, Clinton, etc, etc.

- Learn to read posts. I specifically stated that I didn't pay much attention to the race, and that her being more liberal than moderate was based on what I heard from various places.

- The fact that she endorsed the democrat after she dropped out doesn't maker her look very center right.

- I consider Rush a mouthpiece for conservatism, not for republicans. Maybe the reason Rush is more relevant than the republicans PB mentioned is because those millions of people you speak of want conservatives in office instead of spineless "moderates".

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaxk6MboemE

[TheEschaton]

When the center left candidate is closer in political view to you than the far right candidate, you endorse them. They were both moderates. It's not like she dropped out to endorse Castro.

Let's parse your sentence:

- I consider Rush a mouthpiece for conservatism, not for republicans. Maybe the reason Rush is more relevant than the republicans PB mentioned is because those millions of people you speak of want conservatives in office instead of spineless "moderates".

In your previous sentence, you said "not all Republicans are conservative." Yet this sentence says that 1) moderates are spineless, therefore 2) Rush, and thus the conservative movement, is more relevant than those moderates, 3) even if those moderates are Republicans.

You realize the inference there is that moderates shouldn't be Republican, right? A direct refutation of what you said earlier.

Oh, and how many "conservatives" that Rush is the mouthpiece of are not Republicans? You have a spattering of ultra-anarchist libertarians, I suppose, but not a statistically relevant portion. Besides, those libertarians, who believe in personal liberty like freedom from religious interference in the state, etc, and so on, aren't spoken for by Rush.

No, Rush is the mouthpiece for a very specific type of Christian Coalition Republican.

Arguing with you is like arguing with someone with short-term memory loss. You can't hold all the threads of what you've previously argued, so you try and refute the point just presented to you only to have it pointed out to you that you just said the opposite, which you then try and refute again.

[Parkbandit]

I give up...

Some people just want to wallow in their own ignorance. You can't help them.. it's better to just make fun of them and move on.

Your weak attempts for 4 pages to marginalize Republicans and more specifically conservatives is funny...

[TheEschaton]

...

[Parkbandit]

...

The only post you've made in this thread that we all can agree upon. You didn't make shit up.. even though it can be considered plagiarism on these boards.

[Methais]

You realize the inference there is that moderates shouldn't be Republican, right? A direct refutation of what you said earlier.

No it isn't. I never implied that moderates should be republican. I'd have no problem if the republican party was nothing but conservatives actually. Not super duper ultra extreme far right conservatives that you'd need dynamite and a jackhammer to pry their ass cheeks apart, but definitely more right than "moderate".

Plus this "big tent" shit apparently hasn't exactly been working out for the republicans has it?


Arguing with you is like arguing with someone with short-term memory loss.

Arguing with you is like arguing with someone with long-term stupidsmellyface.

[Warriorbird]

Obama's job approval rating in mid February: 65% ish. http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obama.php

Obama's job approval rating in November: 51% http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obama.php

Obama didn't get elected with 65% of the votes.... he got elected with 56%. Current stuff puts his approval between 51 and 58. Seems like closer to the number of folks he was elected with.

Then again... we're not playing the 'what was Bush's approval rating' game.

[Keller]

Obama didn't get elected with 65% of the votes.... he got elected with 56%. Current stuff puts his approval between 51 and 58. Seems like closer to the number of folks he was elected with.

Then again... we're not playing the 'what was Bush's approval rating' game.

Please, just once, respond to a post without mentioning Bush or republicans.

I am so fucking sick and tired of PB saying, "B-b-b-but the the republicans . .!"

[Parkbandit]

Obama didn't get elected with 65% of the votes.... he got elected with 56%. Current stuff puts his approval between 51 and 58. Seems like closer to the number of folks he was elected with.

Then again... we're not playing the 'what was Bush's approval rating' game.

Ah.. I read your initial post wrong then.

[Parkbandit]

Please, just once, respond to a post without mentioning Bush or republicans.

I am so fucking sick and tired of PB saying, "B-b-b-but the the republicans . .!"

Good to know you'll never, ever change.

You are seriously making Backlash look less and less creepy everyday.

[Keller]

Good to know you'll never, ever change.

You are seriously making Backlash look less and less creepy everyday.

:)

[Methais]

:)

http://www.comreviewed.com/600pxBigSmiley.png

[Keller]

http://www.comreviewed.com/600pxBigSmiley.png

http://ordsunshinepumpers.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/smiley-face-flat.jpg

[Methais]

http://ordsunshinepumpers.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/smiley-face-flat.jpg

http://www.lglan.net/vbdump/dan/3267_goatse.cx-pumpkin.jpg

[Parkbandit]

A tribute to my "leader"

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/GoingRogue.jpg

[EasternBrand]

A tribute to my "leader"

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e6/belike53/GoingRogue.jpg

It's a good initial attempt, but you need at least one in the loss column, and do they have a category for "Abandoned Games"?

[TheEschaton]

It's a good initial attempt, but you need at least one in the loss column, and do they have a category for "Abandoned Games"?

WTFPWNED!!!!11111one!!1