TARP: Taxpayers on the hook for $200 billion

[Seran]

Experts say the cost of the $700 billion bailout to taxpayers is a small price to pay for saving the economy. Others argue we are just staving off an inevitable collapse.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Taxpayers stand to lose between $100 billion and $200 billion on TARP -- Treasury's $700 billion financial market bailout.

While that's nothing to sneeze at, many experts say that the Troubled Asset Relief Program helped rescue the economy from a second Great Depression.

But there are others whoargue that the billions of dollars that taxpayers shelled out simply delayed an inevitable epic collapse of the financial sector.
A year ago, when the financial markets were in turmoil, the Bush administration and supporters in Congress said TARP would be used to buy banks' troubled assets, and would be an investment -- it could even turn a profit.

Source: http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/02/news/economy/tarp_anniversary/index.htm?postversion=2009100309
But TARP, which celebrates its first birthday on Oct. 3, has been used for many programs it was not initially intended for, like saving AIG, automakers and helping struggling homeowners.
One year later it turns out that indeed, former Presiden George W. Bush, Henry Paulson and Ben Bernake perpetuated one of the largest bait and switch campaigns to fund companies which ultimately should have been allowed to fail.

By mis-appropriating billions in taxpayer funds, that administration did little more than give a few months to companies which will ultimately fail and be dissolved under typical bankruptcy proceedings which allow for a market to re-evaluate massively overvalued assets.

We're still seeing the huge commodity speculations losses, the same extravegent pay to the fleeing officers of failing companies, and very little in the way of reinvestment of the funds the government lined the pockets of several national, and international banks.

Congratulations to everyone who grabbed their ankles on this one, and lets please vote in another pseudo-Republican socialist into the Whitehouse; as done in 2000 and 2004.

Source: http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/02/news/economy/tarp_anniversary/index.htm?postversion=2009100309

[Androidpk]

Ron Paul 2012

[Atlanteax]

You should be aware that it was the DEMOCRATIC Congress that passed the TARP *Legislation*. The Treasury had to *request* the funds.

[Parkbandit]

You should be aware that it was the DEMOCRATIC Congress that passed the TARP *Legislation*. The Treasury had to *request* the funds.

You should realize that if Bush wanted to stop it, he wouldn't have suggested it..and then signed it.

The buck stops at the Bush administration imo. It was a bad idea then.. it was a worse idea when Obama did it.. and it'll be a fucking horrible idea if they go through with their plans to do another one.

[Atlanteax]

You should realize that if Bush wanted to stop it, he wouldn't have suggested it..and then signed it.

The buck stops at the Bush administration imo. It was a bad idea then.. it was a worse idea when Obama did it.. and it'll be a fucking horrible idea if they go through with their plans to do another one.

Fortunately, I think any attempts for a 2nd are shriveling up.

[Parkbandit]

Shockingly reasonable of you. Yes, the democratic congress had a huge part in being complacent, following the leader and handing over taxpayer money; at the behest of the treasury secretary and president saying we'd face calamity if we didn't. Still; impressed.

I can sleep easily tonight because some idiot who pretends he's a girl on an internet forum is "impressed" by a post of mine.

Oh happy days.. really.

[Parkbandit]

Well, it's just shocking to see something that isn't unfathomably delusional and partisan come out of your mouth. I was thinking perhaps you're growing as a person, after the long 40-50 years of life you've had, and having turned into what you are.

That such a person even might have at least some remaining shard of reason is encouraging.

It's a lesson you should learn from.. since you are nothing but a mouthpiece for the cock of the liberal wing of the Democratic party.

Don't worry.. once you mature mentally, you won't have to go on the internet and pretend to be something you are not. You will simply accept the fact of what you are and that short of surgery, you are stuck in that hairy ass man body.

I do enjoy the return to your old form though.. it was getting boring here without your typical bullshit in the political threads. The bolds, the italics, the general stupidity.... good to know you didn't abandon all the things that made you the biggest jackass of all time on these forums. Now all we have to do is not hurt your feelings too much to make you quit.. or worse, break ToS again.

Welcome back It.

[ElvenFury]

I've always found PB's stances to be fairly moderate, he just presents them in an assholish way because he likes to watch the far left posters go into fits. :shrug:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

It's funny some people associate age with negative connotations in an effort to take a jab at someone rather than focus on the issues.

[AnticorRifling]

It's funny some people associate age with negative connotations in an effort to take a jab at someone rather than focus on the issues.
That's what you do when nothing else is working. ZOMG U R old/ugly/Nekk/etc.

[AnticorRifling]

I've never heard him "blow up" on vent.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm just pointing out the absurdity of a fifty year old vehemently arguing with someone half his age (or younger, as has been the case in the past), declaring how "immature" others are; especially as he routinely explodes into anger at strangers on the Internet, whether on these forums or Vent, and trying to offend with terms which meaning he doesn't understand, but thinks are offensive (referring to his numerous vile reputation messages he's left).

What does age have to do with arguing with other adults?

I don't think I've seen him explode into anger, I've always pictured him laughing on the other side on his monitor. What terms does he not understand their meaning and thinks are offensive? Just curious because you imply he doesn't understand them and they are not offensive.

[diethx]

Well, it's just shocking to see something that isn't unfathomably delusional and partisan come out of your mouth.

lol, irony.

[Atlanteax]

The point on age being that he's argued, replete with swearing, ad hominem attacks/etc with people half his age or less, not all of which were adults, and then accusing others of being immature. It's ironic at best, and hypocritically delusional at worst (which is what he is).

He's definitely been furious in previous discussions, though I'm sure he'd deny it. He's spewed all sorts of things to try and offend me, which typically are offensive, moronic or just idiotic. The funniest being "cock snorkler," the most offensive I wasn't actually offended by, but don't care to repeat. But he's repeatedly tried to call me a "twink" as a pejorative, when it doesn't carry an especially negative connotation to gays.. Maybe as shallow or young, in the most broad sense possible, but the vast majority of its use just describes a specific body type, which most gay men find attractive/positive, not the other way around. That's what I'm talking about, not that it has any specific relevance to his usual railing idiocy.

Short Response = You take Parkbandit's posts *way too literally*

[Keller]

It's funny some people associate age with negative connotations in an effort to take a jab at someone rather than focus on the issues.

Like how PB starts the vast majority of his posts addressing the other poster as "Boy"?

[Rocktar]

It's funny some people associate age with negative connotations in an effort to take a jab at someone rather than focus on the issues.

I call it a pathetic ad hominem attack and seriously agist.

[Parkbandit]

I've never heard him "blow up" on vent.

Really? What about last night when you said "Heal me, I can tank half this instance" and yelled at me for not being able to keep you up.. only to find out you had some bullshit dps gear on?

I went ballistic.. and almost gquit.

[Parkbandit]

The point on age being that he's argued, replete with swearing, ad hominem attacks/etc with people half his age or less, not all of which were adults, and then accusing others of being immature. It's ironic at best, and hypocritically delusional at worst (which is what he is).


You do realize that:

1) There is no age restrictions on this forum.
2) You brought up age in this thread first.
3) You are a guy, not a girl.



He's definitely been furious in previous discussions, though I'm sure he'd deny it. He's spewed all sorts of things to try and offend me, which typically are offensive, moronic or just idiotic. The funniest being "cock snorkler," the most offensive I wasn't actually offended by, but don't care to repeat. But he's repeatedly tried to call me a "twink" as a pejorative, when it doesn't carry an especially negative connotation to gays.. Maybe as shallow or young, in the most broad sense possible, but the vast majority of its use just describes a specific body type, which most gay men find attractive/positive, not the other way around. That's what I'm talking about, not that it has any specific relevance to his usual railing idiocy.

I wish I could take credit for cock snorkler.. but I can't. I stole that from someone else.

You sound like a poor, poor victim here... never, ever offending anyone else and always trying to stay above the fray. I call that the Keller Syndrome.. something you wish were true, but in reality it's quite the opposite.

[Rocktar]

I wish I could take credit for cock snorkler.. but I can't. I stole that from someone else.

I about fell out of my fucking chair laughing about that one.

[Sean of the Thread]

I've never heard him "blow up" on vent.

It's because he doesn't smoke when he's on his oxygen.




*lol cock snorkler

[Deathravin]

One year later it turns out that indeed, former Presiden George W. Bush, Henry Paulson and Ben Bernake perpetuated one of the largest bait and switch campaigns to fund companies which ultimately should have been allowed to fail.

By mis-appropriating billions in taxpayer funds, that administration did little more than give a few months to companies which will ultimately fail and be dissolved under typical bankruptcy proceedings which allow for a market to re-evaluate massively overvalued assets.

We're still seeing the huge commodity speculations losses, the same extravegent pay to the fleeing officers of failing companies, and very little in the way of reinvestment of the funds the government lined the pockets of several national, and international banks.

Congratulations to everyone who grabbed their ankles on this one, and lets please vote in another pseudo-Republican socialist into the Whitehouse; as done in 2000 and 2004.

Source: http://money.cnn.com/2009/10/02/news/economy/tarp_anniversary/index.htm?postversion=2009100309

I try to put the bailouts into perspective. It's like if an asteroid was careening toward earth, and we send up a few nukes to modify its trajectory. Then the nukes cause EMPs that wipe out 2% of the electronics on the planet.

Now the electronic issue is a big one. It takes a lot of money, time, energy, frustration, to fix. Its a problem, even an unwanted consequence. Some people are without power for weeks, others have to buy a new blackberry or laptop, and still others have some data permanently lost.

Should you just suck it up and realize it was for the greater good? or should you bitch about the consequence?


Make no mistake, the financial system of the planet was quite literally on the line. I have been frustrated by the debt of the country from the time I first learned of it when I was like 10 (of course my ideas on how to fix it have drastically changed since then LOL). But at the end of the day I'd like to still have an America to call home tomorrow.

So now that the crisis has been somewhat averted, lets take AIG and other organizations that are too big to fail and break them up into much smaller and bite-sized pieces. Lets make some legislation so the banking system can't kill itself again.

I wouldn't mind taking it quite a bit further and drastically changing the monetary system of the country so we don't have a system based on exponential growth anymore, but that's a bit too drastic for most people I guess... Lets take the necessary steps, but stop looking back and complaining. It sucked, but it had to be done.

[AnticorRifling]

Really? What about last night when you said "Heal me, I can tank half this instance" and yelled at me for not being able to keep you up.. only to find out you had some bullshit dps gear on?

I went ballistic.. and almost gquit.

1 My DPS gear isn't bullshit

2 I still blame you

3 I was laughing too damn hard to hear you say anything

[Parkbandit]

I try to put the bailouts into perspective. It's like if an asteroid was careening toward earth, and we send up a few nukes to modify its trajectory. Then the nukes cause EMPs that wipe out 2% of the electronics on the planet.

Now the electronic issue is a big one. It takes a lot of money, time, energy, frustration, to fix. Its a problem, even an unwanted consequence. Some people are without power for weeks, others have to buy a new blackberry or laptop, and still others have some data permanently lost.

Should you just suck it up and realize it was for the greater good? or should you bitch about the consequence?


Make no mistake, the financial system of the planet was quite literally on the line. I have been frustrated by the debt of the country from the time I first learned of it when I was like 10 (of course my ideas on how to fix it have drastically changed since then LOL). But at the end of the day I'd like to still have an America to call home tomorrow.

So now that the crisis has been somewhat averted, lets take AIG and other organizations that are too big to fail and break them up into much smaller and bite-sized pieces. Lets make some legislation so the banking system can't kill itself again.

I wouldn't mind taking it quite a bit further and drastically changing the monetary system of the country so we don't have a system based on exponential growth anymore, but that's a bit too drastic for most people I guess... Lets take the necessary steps, but stop looking back and complaining. It sucked, but it had to be done.

Make no mistake? There are many economists, both Democrat and Republican, that disagree with your "facts". And both the Bush TARP and the Obama "Stimulus" bills did nothing close to what they were supposed to do. Credit is still tight at banks, with more failures on the way.. and the "stimulus" has been an epic failure... not stimulating anything except Democrat re-election bids for 2010.

The worst has yet to come... we haven't changed a thing, only delayed the crash.

[Parkbandit]

1 My DPS gear isn't bullshit

2 I still blame you

3 I was laughing too damn hard to hear you say anything

You missed clearing 25 man ToC last night... which might very well be my favorite instance.

[AnticorRifling]

You missed clearing 25 man ToC last night... which might very well be my favorite instance. Yeah I know. Sucks that I missed it but Sun, Tues, Thurs I go to bed early because of gym time the next morning.

[Sean of the Thread]

Lol the only thing I've heard or done on vent with you guys is laugh or take a political stab to get a rise out of someone in the group.

Mostly laugh however.

*btw I don't miss WoW at all. Sort of kind of. Well just sort of not really.

[Rocktar]

How does anyone have fail DPS gear? I mean shit, you can get pretty decent stuff from simply farming the crap out of 5 man heroics to get to what, tier 8 - 8.5? I mean shit, if I can do it, then so can you. You can even get some average weapons (a few decent) without ever touching foot in a raid or 10 man. Hell, you can even get some decent weapons if you farm 5 man heroic TOC long enough. I want the rhondel and I want the daggers in my guilds weekly Ulduar raid to drop more than once in the past 3 months.

What is his wow-heroes gear rating? Hell, mine's 2265 and I have shit weapons for a mutilate spec rogue.


PS: Catacylism is coming...

[Deathravin]

Make no mistake? There are many economists, both Democrat and Republican, that disagree with your "facts".

Hindsight is 20/20

[AnticorRifling]

How does anyone have fail DPS gear?



It was fail DPS gear because I was in my DPS gear and I was the tank.....

[Parkbandit]

Hindsight is 20/20

Yet there were MANY people who were againt TARP and the "Stimulus".

And the way you wrote your post, it sounds like you still think the country would have collapsed without these two wastes of money.

[Parkbandit]

It was fail DPS gear because I was in my DPS gear and I was the tank.....

Remember when I even asked you if you were in the right spec, presence, etc... because you seemed pretty damn squishy?

Yea...

[AnticorRifling]

Remember when I even asked you if you were in the right spec, presence, etc... because you seemed pretty damn squishy?

Yea...
I was in the right spec and presence...just not the right gear lol. So I could take one or two mobs but the 6-8 pull ended poorly.

[Deathravin]

Yet there were MANY people who were againt TARP and the "Stimulus".

And the way you wrote your post, it sounds like you still think the country would have collapsed without these two wastes of money.

and it sounds like you think the country wouldn't have collapsed without them.
I guess we're just stating the obvious now.

You think Paulson WANTED to give the original $125,000,000,000 bailout to the banks or nationalizing Fannie & Freddie? Because every action before that (being a staunch free market advocate, partnering bear & JPMorgan for $2/share, invoking moral hazard, letting Lehman die) showed that he didn't.

Why would Paulson & Bernanke do those things if there were another option?
Why would they do a complete 180 on the values they held most dear if the country wouldn't have collapsed if they hadn't?