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Keller
08-13-2009, 01:19 PM
I bring to you the thoughts of a prominent tax attorney. The attorney runs a private listserve for other tax attorneys and occassionally sends non-tax related items, such as pictures of Mars, thoughts on steroids, and 60s rock and roll.

I found his e-mail to be quite articulate and well-reasoned. I hope you enjoy it.



I sometimes have trouble sitting on my hands and avoiding putting my foot in my mouth. I usually am restrained -- well, most of the time. I try as I can to stay as apolitical as I can. It is tough controlling myself. There is enough about each political party to detest. I try to be even handed in my disdain.

Sometimes I just loose control.

I react about as much as anyone to stories about big public companies obtaining government relief at the same time that these companies are ordering executive jets to transport high executives. I have listened to the debates, but I am unimpressed at the cost-efficiency of private executive jet travel for executives. (It is extremely expensive.) As far as I am concerned, even Federer should fly commercial. Chief executives often use corporate jets for personal travel and, on account of a long tax controversy that can be traced to the Nixon administration, the executives are taxed only on the cost of a first class ticket. I believe in taxing them based on corporate charter rates, based on what they actually receive, which would practically eliminate the use of executive jets for private excursions.

I have listened to and read complaints from many Congressmen about large companies providing corporate jets for their executives. Many of these complaints are convincing. I am in rare agreement with the conventional wisdom.

I read today in the newspapers about Congress earmarking $500 million for eight jets to upgrade the federal junket fleet. (This comes at a time of cancelling acquisitions of a major combat aircraft.) I reluctantly concede the President Air Force I. I could find a lot wrong with in if I went into detail about how it is outfitted. (I would have outfitted it like a commercial jet -- perhaps with a communications annex -- and not like a flying Taj Mahal. He is not an Arab sheik. The President would learn a lot if he had to deal with airport security lines, trying to find overhead space for his luggage, the shrinking legroom in coach, and airline sandwiches.) I do not concede the Vice President Air Force 2. Why does the most redundant and least important position in the world require a private jet? The vice-president has no greater security concerns than the mayor of South Pasadena. No one has even considered assassinating the vice-president -- whoever he is -- any more than they have considered assassinating the Presidential butler. I would let the Vice President fly commercial coach or ride in a C-130 (not a C-40 or C-37) when necessary. No one would recognize him.

Expanding the Congressional air force with new Boeing 737's (C-40's) and Gulfstream V planes (C-37) at a cost of $500 million is a bunch of @$%@$#%. The Pentagon insists that the Pentagon did not request the aircraft and does not want them. Without attempting to connect the dots (for this all could be coincidence), I note that this appropriation comes soon after well publicized complaints by a nameless Northern California Congresswoman that the Air Force did not have an executive jet available to ferry her home for week-ends.

An article about the expansion of the Congressional air force in the Wall Street Journal -- hardly known as a reform newspaper -- mentions that Congressional spouses often fly free. The tax system at least should see that they are taxed at executive charter rates. That is what they are getting -- executive charter transportation -- not first class air travel. (I cannot resist wondering if they are 1099ed at all.) The current regulations under Section 61 on taxing at a first class ticket rate are a disgrace and seem to be purely politically inspired. It looks like that slight to her dignity is going to cost us $500 million.

As far as I am concerned, let them all fly commercial coach.

Celephais
08-13-2009, 01:53 PM
In country I'd agree, out of country executive charter makes sense to me.

AnticorRifling
08-13-2009, 02:04 PM
In country I'd agree, out of country executive charter makes sense to me.
I agree, for the actual person that's in office. The family should be paying their way.

radamanthys
08-13-2009, 02:07 PM
In country I'd agree, out of country executive charter makes sense to me.

For state events, yea. Wouldn't want the Secretary of State to wander into peace accord late or without luggage.

Don't really think that the junkets, i.e. vacations, necessitate that kind of luxury. Regardless of position held. If the Prez wants to go on vacation, he can buy and fuel his own private plane. Or at least pay the taxpayers back for using AF1 for personal use.

Celephais
08-13-2009, 02:20 PM
I agree, for the actual person that's in office. The family should be paying their way.
I'm mixed on this, I think that if you're going to turn that "business trip" into a family vacation you should be fitting the bill, unfortunately being a congressional family you're not able to just take a vacation as normal (security detail, etc). Although I'm sure most congressmen could afford the extra bill.

... I've got a personal stake in that matter though, my dad's a private pilot (so I'm all for corporate fleets obviously!!), occasionally he flys somewhere and stays there for a while and either my mom or the whole family will meet him there (flying commercial), and even rarer he has to bring the plane somewhere without the clients (for example maintenance) where it costs nothing extra for us to tag along. So in cases where it'll cost nothing extra I think it's okay to bring them, unfortunately congressmen abuse this by scheduling "fact finding" missions to vacation hotspots. (which I think is the key to the disdane, and makes my "stake" irrelevant because my dad doesn't pick the destinations)

The job they have can lead to being away from the family frequently, and I think we should afford them some leway to being able to take their family with them ... if they'd stop fucking abusing it.

Drew
08-13-2009, 02:23 PM
unfortunately congressmen abuse this by scheduling "fact finding" missions to vacation hotspots. (which I think is the key to the disdane, and makes my "stake" irrelevant because my dad doesn't pick the destinations)


Problem: Mexico is experiencing a drug war.

Solution: Fact finding mission to Cabo San Lucas!

Celephais
08-13-2009, 02:27 PM
For state events, yea. Wouldn't want the Secretary of State to wander into peace accord late or without luggage.

Don't really think that the junkets, i.e. vacations, necessitate that kind of luxury. Regardless of position held. If the Prez wants to go on vacation, he can buy and fuel his own private plane. Or at least pay the taxpayers back for using AF1 for personal use.
Right... for the fact finding bullshit abuse again I agree. But the position makes it difficult for them to log into priceline and get themselves a $99 vacation to cancun. Granted they're all pretty rich anyway so they should be used to expensive vacations, and I'll agree they should pay at least what a normal individual would pay for a similar vacation.

radamanthys
08-13-2009, 02:30 PM
Problem: Mexico is experiencing a drug war.

Solution: Fact finding mission to Cabo San Lucas!

I'd do it. See, it's nice being a wholly corrupt individual, because you can fathom and even expect what these fucknuts will do with their power.

ClydeR
08-13-2009, 03:08 PM
I bring to you the thoughts of a prominent tax attorney.

The encouraging revelation I take from that e-mail is that I can write just as well as prominent tax attorney.

AnticorRifling
08-13-2009, 03:18 PM
Sometimes I just loose control.


Shouldn't it be lose and not loose?

Spell check said it was right!

Kembal
08-13-2009, 03:41 PM
The encouraging revelation I take from that e-mail is that I can write just as well as prominent tax attorney.

I think the persona of ClydeR just won the thread.

This is disconcerting.

Gan
08-13-2009, 03:57 PM
I really can't find anything in thr OP that disagree with. Although we'll never see this kind of transparency or accountability from our lawmakers. The question I have is how long do we let this type of behavior exist?

radamanthys
08-13-2009, 04:18 PM
Right... for the fact finding bullshit abuse again I agree. But the position makes it difficult for them to log into priceline and get themselves a $99 vacation to cancun. Granted they're all pretty rich anyway so they should be used to expensive vacations, and I'll agree they should pay at least what a normal individual would pay for a similar vacation.

Exactly. We pay them pretty damned well just for shit like this. They can afford it.


I really can't find anything in thr OP that disagree with. Although we'll never see this kind of transparency or accountability from our lawmakers. The question I have is how long do we let this type of behavior exist?

We have a second amendment for a reason. So they can't take away our ability to defend ourselves from government corruption and control.

Gan
08-13-2009, 09:51 PM
Without attempting to connect the dots (for this all could be coincidence), I note that this appropriation comes soon after well publicized complaints by a nameless Northern California Congresswoman that the Air Force did not have an executive jet available to ferry her home for week-ends.

Love the Pelosi slam.