Obama On Rushing Huge Unread Bills

[Methais]

He wasn't a fan of it in 2004, but it's ok now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Itir5IRSwEQ

[radamanthys]

His hypocrisy is nothing new to his opponents and is ignored by his supporters.

Sad, really.

[TheEschaton]

Funny, he was just saying yesterday how he didn't expect it to be done this month, and was willing to take as long as it took as long as it got DONE this year. Now, the legislation came out, what, last month? If Congress can't pass a bill (which includes reading it) in 6 months, it's not doing its job.

The truth of the matter is, the whole "The sky is falling" routine about pushing through the bill on the part of the Republicans, is, as usual, scare tactics.

Whereas the Patriot Act, thousands of pages long, was deliberated on for a WEEK in Nov in 2001, and was being changed the night before the vote by Congressional Republicans.

-TheE-

[Bhuryn]

Funny, he was just saying yesterday how he didn't expect it to be done this month, and was willing to take as long as it took as long as it got DONE this year. Now, the legislation came out, what, last month? If Congress can't pass a bill (which includes reading it) in 6 months, it's not doing its job.

The truth of the matter is, the whole "The sky is falling" routine about pushing through the bill on the part of the Republicans, is, as usual, scare tactics.

Whereas the Patriot Act, thousands of pages long, was deliberated on for a WEEK in Nov in 2001, and was being changed the night before the vote by Congressional Republicans.

-TheE-

I'd argue that it's more their job not to pass this bill (since it's outside their responsibility in my opinion) the it would be to pass it.

[Atlanteax]

The defeat/abandonment of the health care bill = Congress doing what it is supposed to do... in regard to this responsibility.

Kudos will be given to the "Blue Dogs" as a result for not allowing it to pass.

[TheEschaton]

Jesus fuck, I didn't mean it like that - if the bill can't be decided one way or the other, and is still in limbo at the end of 6 months, Congress is not doing its job.

Whether it should pass or not is a political question, not a question of the mechanics of passing a large, multi-thousand page bill quickly.

I obviously think a bill that advocates a single payer system (not what the bill currently proposes) should be passed, that the Blue Dog Democrats should be cut off at the knees and told to go form their own moderate party, and let me have an actual liberal party to vote for.

But that's just my selfish wants, not a politically feasible idea.

[Methais]

I obviously think a bill that advocates a single payer system (not what the bill currently proposes) should be passed, that the Blue Dog Democrats should be cut off at the knees and told to go form their own moderate party, and let me have an actual liberal party to vote for.

Exactly what part of a single payer system do you think will make us not end up with a shitty non-care system like Canada and Britain?

[Bhuryn]

Jesus fuck, I didn't mean it like that - if the bill can't be decided one way or the other, and is still in limbo at the end of 6 months, Congress is not doing its job.

Whether it should pass or not is a political question, not a question of the mechanics of passing a large, multi-thousand page bill quickly.

I obviously think a bill that advocates a single payer system (not what the bill currently proposes) should be passed, that the Blue Dog Democrats should be cut off at the knees and told to go form their own moderate party, and let me have an actual liberal party to vote for.

But that's just my selfish wants, not a politically feasible idea.

I'm ok with congress being mired in their own bullshit. It means they can't do anymore harm.

[Apotheosis]

I'm ok with congress being mired in their own bullshit. It means they can't do anymore harm.

:yeahthat:

[Mabus]

I obviously think a bill that advocates a single payer system (not what the bill currently proposes) should be passed,
They won't even debate single-payer.

I believe if we are going to spend trillions then we should go with a single-payer, with basic coverage being not-for-profit from insurance companies (closer to the Swiss model), rather then the shambles that is being proposed.

But single-payer has been called a "non-starter" by more then one "liberal" person from your beloved "liberal party". They are all (the majority party, the president, and even the "opposing" party) in the pocket of the insurance lobby and big pharma.

It looks like we are headed toward an overly expensive bill that will hurt small businesses, create larger deficits and taxation, but still do little to address the issue of the uninsured/under-insured.

[TheEschaton]

I don't consider the Democrats very liberal at all, and I'd love it if you could find me ever saying that. In fact, I got shit a few weeks back for calling Obama a moderate and the Democrats a center-right party.

And MEthais, Canada and the UK's system are far better. Far, far better. That you think they are worse means the propoganda has worked on you. :P

-TheE-

[Bhuryn]

I don't consider the Democrats very liberal at all, and I'd love it if you could find me ever saying that. In fact, I got shit a few weeks back for calling Obama a moderate and the Democrats a center-right party.

And MEthais, Canada and the UK's system are far better. Far, far better. That you think they are worse means the propoganda has worked on you. :P

-TheE-

So long as nothing serious happens to you...

[Nieninque]

So long as nothing serious happens to you...

The NHS is fucking awesome thanks. For those that don't want it, there is the private option. For the rest, it's a very good health service.

[Parkbandit]

I don't consider the Democrats very liberal at all, and I'd love it if you could find me ever saying that. In fact, I got shit a few weeks back for calling Obama a moderate and the Democrats a center-right party.

That was/is funny. I personally consider Obama very liberal.. very socialistic.



And MEthais, Canada and the UK's system are far better. Far, far better. That you think they are worse means the propoganda has worked on you. :P

-TheE-

OR, it could be that the propoganda has worked on you. If you are a young, unemployed and lazy.. then you are correct.. the Canada and UK healthcare systems are far superior to the US.

[Bhuryn]

OR, it could be that the propoganda has worked on you. If you are a young, unemployed and lazy.. then you are correct.. the Canada and UK healthcare systems are far superior to the US.

Didn't you know what it was our job as employeed citizens to take care of the old, lazy, crippled and dumb?

[Parkbandit]

Didn't you know what it was our job as employeed citizens to take care of the old, lazy, crippled and dumb?


I'm pretty liberal in that I do believe it's our duty to take care of the elderly, the physically disabled and the mentally disabled.

The lazy can fuck off though, imo.

[Bhuryn]

I'm pretty liberal in that I do believe it's our duty to take care of the elderly, the physically disabled and the mentally disabled.

The lazy can fuck off though, imo.

I subscribe the belief that if you try to take care of everyone, no one gets properly taken care of in the end.

[landy]

I'm pretty liberal in that I do believe it's our duty to take care of the elderly, the physically disabled and the mentally disabled.

The lazy can fuck off though, imo.

So if you want to be lazy you better get old quick! :rofl:

[Methais]

I don't consider the Democrats very liberal at all, and I'd love it if you could find me ever saying that. In fact, I got shit a few weeks back for calling Obama a moderate and the Democrats a center-right party.

I'm too lazy to find the post, but I'm pretty sure you said Obama was a center-right president, which is :rofl:.


And MEthais, Canada and the UK's system are far better. Far, far better. That you think they are worse means the propoganda has worked on you. :P

-TheE-

Or maybe it means the propaganda has worked for you.

If not, then pleasehow exactly the care you get over there is far better, and why people from all over the world, including Canada and England, come to America when they need serious medical treatment because they don't want to wait 6 months to get a band aid.

Please explain British teeth too while we're at it.

[Latrinsorm]

I subscribe the belief that if you try to take care of everyone, no one gets properly taken care of in the end.Off-topic tangent: do you subscribe to this belief in an international/military sense? It's only been 60 years, but I think we're doing a pretty good job of policing the world so far.

[Androidpk]

Off-topic tangent: do you subscribe to this belief in an international/military sense? It's only been 60 years, but I think we're doing a pretty good job of policing the world so far.

What about Darfur?

[Nieninque]

If not, then pleasehow exactly the care you get over there is far better, and why people from all over the world, including Canada and England, come to America when they need serious medical treatment because they don't want to wait 6 months to get a band aid.

You have a really ethnocentric view of the world...oh wait...you're a Septic.

[Methais]

You have a really ethnocentric view of the world...oh wait...you're a Septic.

Thank you for the in-depth, detailed explanation to my question. Thanks to you, I no longer have any worries about our health care system becoming like yours.

Cheerio.
http://img.broadway.com/photos/PhotoOp/Original/5030658.jpg

[Bhuryn]

Off-topic tangent: do you subscribe to this belief in an international/military sense? It's only been 60 years, but I think we're doing a pretty good job of policing the world so far.

Really? Why would you think that?

Oh, and don't forget our imperialism has had a hand in bankrupting the country.

[TheEschaton]

They "flock" to our country for non-life-threatening optional surgery because they have the money and can come.

If you think they're coming here because they have something so serious and they would die waiting for care in their own "socialist system" to get through everyone else in front of them on the list, you've bought the propoganda. They're paying for the convenience, IE, for the luxury, not that it is necessarily better.

We do have a very good system, for the very wealthy. Because we pay our specialists grotesque sums, many foreign doctors who are at the top of their field in their own countries come here to be paid an arm and a leg. However, if you think this suddenly means there's no brilliant doctors anywhere else who maybe have a more altruistic bone in their body, you're mistaken.

And lastly, the Europeans don't come to the States any more - they go to the UK and France. Sarkozy didn't come over here to get checked out when he collapsed the other day, he stuck where he was, France.

-TheE-

[Latrinsorm]

What about Darfur?Major areas needing improvement certainly include but are not limited to Africa, Eastern Europe, and Western Asia. Africa in particular has been addressed so poorly by established powers for so long it's almost hard to hope.
Why would you think that?Western Europe has found peace and prosperity wholly unmatched in the historical record, and I think it's fair to say we have had a very large hands in those matters. South America and the Far East are doing pretty well as of late as well. It's not all gum drops and roses, but compared to the days of actual/military imperialism I'd say we've made great strides.