Government Should Apologize for Slavery?

[ClydeR]

WASHINGTON – With unanimous consent, the U.S. Senate today apologized on behalf of the nation to African Americans for the legacy of slavery and the enforced system of segregation known as Jim Crow.

It differed from last year’s resolution passed by the House in one major detail only: The Senate’s version included a disclaimer noting that nothing in the resolution supports reparations for the families of slaves or “serves as a settlement of any claim against the United States.”

More... (http://www.freep.com/article/20090618/NEWS15/90618047/1285/Senate+OKs+apology+for+slavery++segregation)

No former slave owners are alive today. No former slaves are alive today. There's nobody left to apologize and nobody left to accept an apology.

[Latrinsorm]

On the other hand, there are plenty of people alive today who were and are subject to, and I quote, "the legacy of slavery" and "the enforced system of segregation known as Jim Crow".

[Bhuryn]

No former slave owners are alive today. No former slaves are alive today. There's nobody left to apologize and nobody left to accept an apology.

Because 1965 was so long ago, right? Do you know how to read or do you have canned responses to keywords?

[Latrinsorm]

Tell me more about 1965 was so long ago?

[Bhuryn]

Tell me more about 1965 was so long ago?

Were you refering to my (clearly) sarcastic response to ClydeR?

[Euler]

I had a conversation....actually I was sitting there as a guy was talking at me about the fact that African Americans should have to pay for having been slaves because if they had been left in Africa they would be starving and have AIDS.

I just tried to make no sudden movements.

[AestheticLife]

Any mention of slavery in American culture is immediately invalid, purely on the basis of the reparation-seeking cunts that attempt to abuse the system, and take advantage of their ancestor's suffering.

No offense, but I could care less if you great uncle's grandfather's brother-in-law was picking cotton. You're still given the same (if not better) opportunity to make it in today's America.

You may aswell bitch and moan about how disadvantaged you are, because your great great grandfather had herpes.


EDIT: For clarification: All of the above aside, that is simply the time we live in. I completely empathize with those who actually HAVE suffered due to the events of the more-recent past.

[Euler]

because your great great grandfather had herpes.

I dare you, talk about my great great grandfather one more time.

[ElvenFury]

I had a conversation....actually I was sitting there as a guy was talking at me about the fact that African Americans should have to pay for having been slaves because if they had been left in Africa they would be starving and have AIDS.

I just tried to make no sudden movements.

You didn't ask him if he was ClydeR?

[Mabus]

You didn't ask him if he was ClydeR?

:rofl:

[Latrinsorm]

Were you refering to my (clearly) sarcastic response to ClydeR?There's a Dinosaur Comics about the blockhead omni-computer and AIM bots, I was referring to it and your post. Today I think is a good day for everyone to read Dinosaur Comics!

http://www.qwantz.com

http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=854

I always think these references won't be that obscure, and then they always are, besides Clove and his fuckin' Spanish Armada. :(

[Back]

No former slave owners are alive today. No former slaves are alive today. There's nobody left to apologize and nobody left to accept an apology.

I don’t see how it could possibly hurt. It won’t make anything go away but its an extension of goodwill and an acknowledgment that it was indeed wrong.

Why not apologize? How is refusing to more productive?

[Bhuryn]

There's a Dinosaur Comics about the blockhead omni-computer and AIM bots, I was referring to it and your post. Today I think is a good day for everyone to read Dinosaur Comics!

http://www.qwantz.com

http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=854

I always think these references won't be that obscure, and then they always are, besides Clove and his fuckin' Spanish Armada. :(

Ah, I posted that at work, clearly I was insane at the time.

[AestheticLife]

I don’t see how it could possibly hurt. It won’t make anything go away but its an extension of goodwill and an acknowledgment that it was indeed wrong.

Why not apologize? How is refusing to more productive?

MORE productive? An apology isn't productive to begin with. In fact, it may be just the opposite, as it gives all of the worthless cunts the "told ya so" they needed to keep using the race (and thus slavery) card.

[g++]

THIS IS A FUCKING JOKE

Strategically it would be best if the DMV apologized for slavery. That way the rest of the government would still have plausible deniability about its role should the reaction be negative.

THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES ISSUING AN APOLOGY FOR SLAVERY WAS IN JEST.

[AestheticLife]

Strategically it would be best if the DMV apologized for slavery. That way the rest of the government would still have plausible deniability about its role should the reaction be negative.

Yeah, because NOT BEING ALIVE isn't good enough, right?

[g++]

Yeah, because NOT BEING ALIVE isn't good enough, right?

Oh let me fix it for ya.

There we go.

[Back]

MORE productive? An apology isn't productive to begin with. In fact, it may be just the opposite, as it gives all of the worthless cunts the "told ya so" they needed to keep using the race (and thus slavery) card.

Thats about one of the screwiest reasonings I’ve ever heard.

[g++]

Thats about one of the screwiest reasonings I’ve ever heard.

Yah neither is the being alive part. By that logic if I went to wal-mart and got a job in the returns department I could just flip everyone off until they started bringing receipts from items purchased after the day I was hired. Actually I guess walmart does kind of do that already though.

[ClydeR]

Now that the apology has cleared the Senate and is moving to the House, several members of the Congressional Black Caucus in the House plan to vote against the apology because it contains a disclaimer stating that nothing in the apology entitles anybody to reparations.


"Putting in a disclaimer takes away from the meaning of an apology," said Rep. Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.). "A number of us are prepared to vote against it in its present form."

Thompson and other Black Caucus members noted that a 1988 apology that the government issued to the Japanese-Americans held in U.S. camps during World War II had no disclaimer and didn't prevent compensation.

More... (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-slavery_19jun19,0,1688154.story)

Roland Burris, who is the only black Senator, voted in favor of the apology but made a statement on the Senate floor that, in addition to not entitling anybody to reparations, the apology also did not deny anybody reparation rights.

This isn't something that the President gets a chance to sign or veto, because it is just a resolution, not a law. As best I can tell, no President has ever apologized for slavery. Clinton planned to apologize, but his legal advisers talked him out of it, worrying that it would give black people a greater legal claim to reparations. In his inimitable slippery way, what Clinton actually ended up saying was that it would not be a bad thing to apologize for slavery. Anybody who heard Clinton's mellifluous delivery of his nonapology might at first think he had actually apologized, but if you read his statement carefully, you'll see that he didn't. Although Bush also never apologized, he also bravely said that slavery was bad.

[ClydeR]

I'm surprised by the poll results so far. I had you people pegged as a group that would reflexively favor whatever seemed the most liberal. I think my participation in this forum has shifted a lot of attitudes from extremely liberal to more moderate.

[Warriorbird]

Nice to see Clyde making fun of Democrats too.

[Neo]

It makes me smile. For reasons I don't not wish to explain. A good question to ask ones-self, does it really matter?

Maybe we can get a another federal holiday out of it! Now that would be cool! I could mean allot!

Neo

[AestheticLife]

Yah neither is the being alive part. By that logic if I went to wal-mart and got a job in the returns department I could just flip everyone off until they started bringing receipts from items purchased after the day I was hired. Actually I guess walmart does kind of do that already though.

If you're a customer service rep at Wal-Mart, you're working off of basic store procedure. If your grandfather's grandfather was a slave owner, how the fuck does that mean you owe someone?

I don't see any similarity.

[g++]

If you're a customer service rep at Wal-Mart, you're working off of basic store procedure. If your grandfather's grandfather was a slave owner, how the fuck does that mean you owe someone?

I don't see any similarity.

The United States government is apologizing for its support of the practice of slavery. Its not a personal apology. Much like Wal-Mart will honor your return even if its employee did not work there when you purchased it. Just like the senators who are writing the apology were not slave owners they still work for the United States. Its really not all that abstract.

[AestheticLife]

The United States government is apologizing for its support of the practice of slavery. Its not a personal apology. Much like Wal-Mart will honor your return even if its employee did not work there when you purchased it. Just like the senators who are writing the apology were not slave owners they still work for the United States. Its really not all that abstract.

Problem: YOU purchased the item you're returning. As such, you DESERVE the opportunity to return said item if it did not meet the commonly accepted standard involved, and Wal-Mart should certainly make good on their store policy.

The government is apologizing, in this case, to the Al Sharpton demographic. They aren't apologizing to the people who suffered, but rather, to the worthless individuals who are desperate enough to cling to the past. This is the fundamental difference in the metaphor you've offered up.

Being <insert race here> does not entitle you to sympathy; not on a personal level, and definately not on a national level (insert various ginger jokes here).

[Gibreficul]

What if my family's geneology dates back to the Mayflower, and my ancestors were northern religious puritans? (It does, and they were.) Also, what if some of my family were known to assist with the underground railroad and the freeing of slaves? I'm still a white guy so does that mean I "owe" something? Or, perhaps I should be getting my white ass kissed for what my ancestors did to assist. No... In fact, I'm treated like every other white male... the most discriminated against demographic and the most quiet about it. Cling to and blame the past because it's easier than facing the present, and doing something to improve your own future. That's most certainly the answer. <sarcasm run a muck>

No, the government should not apologize.

Bad dinner topic... FYI.

[Parkbandit]

I do hope that the US Government is also working on the apologies for the American Indians as well. I think as a planet, we should also consider apologies to the pretty much every race and religious group that has ever existed.

Also.. who is going to draft the apology to the neanderthals? We were responsible for completely wiping them out ffs!

[Ker_Thwap]

I'm still waiting for the Vikings to apologize for enslaving my ancestors.

[Valakhan]

I'm still waiting for the Vikings to apologize for enslaving my ancestors.

Oops, that would be me, sorry about that. :)

[Parkbandit]

I'm still waiting for the Vikings to apologize for enslaving my ancestors.

They also need to apologize to Green Bay this year:

http://mvn.com/thepurpletrojan/2690700258_69ab64bc7d.jpg.jpeg

[AnticorRifling]

I think the Stewie Griffin bit where he tells the black guy "You're welcome, we cashed a pretty big check there" at gettysburg ties in nicely to this thread.

[Daniel]

the most discriminated against demographic and the most quiet about it

Lawls


Really? You need to get a grip. For serious.

[AnticorRifling]

Lawls


Really? You need to get a grip. For serious. I'm guessing the <sarcasm disclaimer> at the end of that post covered that.

[Daniel]

I'm guessing the <sarcasm disclaimer> at the end of that post covered that.

WHAT YOU TRYING TO SAY??? I CAN'T READ A SARCASM DISCLAIMER BECAUSE I'M BLACK??

[AnticorRifling]

WHAT YOU TRYING TO SAY??? I CAN'T READ A SARCASM DISCLAIMER BECAUSE I'M BLACK??
Just another example of black text standing on the white paper to get ahead!

[Daniel]

Don't make me boycott your ISP!!

[g++]

I do hope that the US Government is also working on the apologies for the American Indians as well. I think as a planet, we should also consider apologies to the pretty much every race and religious group that has ever existed.

Also.. who is going to draft the apology to the neanderthals? We were responsible for completely wiping them out ffs!


I didnt say I thought drafting apologies for every wrong ever committed in history was a super idea. I just dont follow the logic that an entity cant apologize for something as long as everyone involved is gone.



The government is apologizing, in this case, to the Al Sharpton demographic. They aren't apologizing to the people who suffered, but rather, to the worthless individuals who are desperate enough to cling to the past. This is the fundamental difference in the metaphor you've offered up.

Right Im sure they used the Dear Al Sharpton letterhead. You're just making shit up at this point.

[Methais]

I do hope that the US Government is also working on the apologies for the American Indians as well. I think as a planet, we should also consider apologies to the pretty much every race and religious group that has ever existed.

Also.. who is going to draft the apology to the neanderthals? We were responsible for completely wiping them out ffs!

Who's gonna apologize to the fly community? Our country is headed by a vicious, cold hearted, remorseless, arrogant, self promoting FLY MURDERERRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

http://www.rawpostproduction.ro/black-power-pin.jpg

[AestheticLife]

Right Im sure they used the Dear Al Sharpton letterhead. You're just making shit up at this point.

...making shit up? It was a metaphor. BASIC COMPREHENSION FTWZ.

[CrystalTears]

I didnt say I thought drafting apologies for every wrong ever committed in history was a super idea. I just dont follow the logic that an entity cant apologize for something as long as everyone involved is gone.
What's the point though? If there is no one to directly apologize TO, why even do it in the first place?

[Junarra]

I think it's wonderful that our elected government officials are spending time crafting and rewriting and voting on "resolutions" like this.

Maybe they should craft a "resolution" to "apologize" for using their time doing this instead of working on current problems. Oh no, wait, those are more difficult?

[Back]

Did Germany apologize for the holocaust?

Yes. Germany's response to its war crimes has been largely lauded by the former Allies. The Government of the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany until 1990) offered official apologies for Germany's role in the Holocaust. Additionally, German leaders have continuously expressed repentance, most notably when former Chancellor Willy Brandt fell on his knees in front of a Holocaust memorial in the Warsaw Ghetto, also known as the Warschauer Kniefall in 1970. Germany has also paid extensive reparations, including nearly $70 billion to the state of Israel. It has given $15 billion to Holocaust survivors and will continue to compensate them until 2015. Additionally, the government of Germany coordinated an effort to reach a settlement with German companies that had used slave labor during the war; the companies will pay $1.7 billion to victims. Germany also established a National Holocaust Memorial Museum in Berlin for looted property.

[radamanthys]

Did anyone see Obama's Father's Day commercial?

[Stanley Burrell]

Did anyone see Obama's Father's Day commercial?

Nah, why?

[g++]

What's the point though? If there is no one to directly apologize TO, why even do it in the first place?

Its just a pronouncement that they felt what was done in the past was wrong. I dont think its a good use of their time but they can certainly issue an apology for things the United States has done that they felt were wrong if thats their perogotive. I guess the point would be to let everyone know they dont agree with what was done. Although the point is likely more about saying "Everyone look at how politically correct I am and vote for me".



...making shit up? It was a metaphor. BASIC COMPREHENSION FTWZ.


They apologized to African Americans in general for slavery unless your definition of African American is :


worthless individuals who are desperate enough to cling to the past

You are making shit up.

[AestheticLife]

They apologized to African Americans in general for slavery-

...which is why it's pointless and generally moronic to blindly support such a "show of good faith". They apologized to people who did not deserve an apology.

Seriously, everyone type slower so g++ can catch up.

[Methais]

They apologized to African Americans in general for slavery unless your definition of African American is:

Unless the people they're apologizing to were born in Africa and came here, as opposed to their great great great great grandfather fitting that mold, then they're not African American, they're just American, and they were never slaves.

And until they start referring to white people as European Americans (which would be just as gay as referring to blacks as African American), that will hold true.

[g++]

...which is why it's pointless and generally moronic to blindly support such a "show of good faith". They apologized to people who did not deserve an apology.

Seriously, everyone type slower so g++ can catch up.

Yes there were no lasting ramifications caused by the institution of slavery. Racism immediately ceased at the conclusion of the civil war and segregation never happened. Wow it does make things less complicated when you adopt an ignorant self serving world view I can see why you enjoy it so much.

[CrystalTears]

I would be more impressed with descendants of people who had slaves apologizing for their actions, than the government for allowing it.

[Methais]

Yes there were no lasting ramifications caused by the institution of slavery. Racism immediately ceased at the conclusion of the civil war and segregation never happened. Wow it does make things less complicated when you adopt an ignorant self serving world view I can see why you enjoy it so much.

So when will whites be apologized to for the double standard reverse racism? When will midgets get their apology for being laughed at and used at indy wrestling shows and carnivals all their lives? When will Klaive apologize to the ninja community?

[AestheticLife]

I would be more impressed with descendants of people who had slaves apologizing for their actions, than the government for allowing it.

Yeah, because they TOTALLY had control over that. STOP IT.

[Parkbandit]

I would be more impressed with descendants of people who had slaves apologizing for their actions, than the government for allowing it.

Sorry, my great, great, great, great, great, great grandfather once bought a cotton shirt that may or may not have been manufactured with the cotton that was picked by a black slave.

I've been living with this guilt all these years and that certainly felt good to get off my chest.

[CrystalTears]

Shit, forgot the italics. Sorry!

[AestheticLife]

Shit, forgot the italics. Sorry!

I still love you anyway.

[radamanthys]

An apology would be counterproductive. We're trying to get over it, I thought.

[AestheticLife]

An apology would be counterproductive. We're trying to get over it, I thought.

http://www.musicnotes.com/images/productimages/mtd/mn0050662.gif

[radamanthys]

http://www.musicnotes.com/images/productimages/mtd/mn0050662.gif

Apparently.

[4a6c1]

So when will whites be apologized to for the double standard reverse racism? When will midgets get their apology for being laughed at and used at indy wrestling shows and carnivals all their lives? When will Klaive apologize to the ninja community?

When will your avatar apologize to cake?

[radamanthys]

When will your avatar apologize to cake?

His avatar needs to apologize to (and fix) herself, everyone who's seen her, that picture, or has ever eaten a delicious baked good.

[ViridianAsp]

His avatar needs to apologize to (and fix) herself, everyone who's seen her, that picture, or has ever eaten a delicious baked good.

I'm sorry, very and truly. Apparently, Methias likes to share the pictures he took of me...I can't stop it.

[radamanthys]

I'm sorry, very and truly. Apparently, Methias likes to share the pictures he took of me...I can't stop it.

Your first penance is to give away that cake.

[Tisket]

Sorry for the bump but I just saw this thread. And every single one of you have it wrong.

If Britain had won the Revolutionary War then southern slaves might have been freed in 1834 when slavery was abolished in it's empire instead of having to wait until the Civil War. During the Revolution thousands and thousands of southern slaves fled to the British lines in search of freedom. It's been said that the British army was the greatest instrument of emancipation in American history before the Civil War.

So there you have it. If anyone should apologize it should be the Brits for being pussies.

:P


(miniature history lesson courtesy of Gordon S. Wood)