Iran Election

[Ignot]

Iran declares win for Ahmadinejad in disputed vote (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090613/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election)


Supporters of reformist candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi, some wearing green as the AP – Supporters of reformist candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi, some wearing green as the color of the party, …
By ALI AKBAR DAREINI and ANNA JOHNSON, Associated Press Writers Ali Akbar Dareini And Anna Johnson, Associated Press Writers – 10 mins ago

TEHRAN, Iran – Supporters of the main election challenger to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad clashed with police and set up barricades of burning tires Saturday as authorities declared the hard-line president was re-elected in a landslide. Opponents responded with the most serious unrest in the capital in a decade and charges that the result was the work of a "dictatorship."

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, closed the door on any chance he could use his limitless powers to intervene in the disputes from Friday's election. In a message on state TV, he urged the nation to unite behind Ahmadinejad, calling the result a "divine assessment."

But Ahmadinejad's main challenger, Mir Hossein Mousavi, has rejected the result as rigged and urged his supporters to resist a government of "lies and dictatorship."

The clashes in central Tehran were the more serious disturbances in the capital since student-led protests in 1999 and showed the potential for the showdown over the vote to spill over into further violence and challenges to the Islamic establishment.

Several hundred demonstrators — many wearing the trademark green colors of Mousavi's campaign — chanted "the government lied to the people" and gathered near the Interior Ministry as the final count was announced. It gave 62.6 percent of the vote to Ahmadinejad and 33.75 to Mousavi, who served as prime minister in the 1980s and has become the hero of a youth-driven movement seeking greater liberties and a gentler face for Iran abroad.

The turnout was a record 85 percent of Iran's 46.2 million eligible voters. Two other candidates received only a fraction of the vote.

Protesters set fire to tires outside the Interior Ministry and anti-riot police fought back with clubs and smashed cars. An Associated Press photographer saw a plainclothes security official beating a woman with his truncheon.

In another main street of Tehran, some 300 young people blocked the avenue by forming a human chain and chanted "Ahmadi, shame on you. Leave the government alone."

Mousavi's campaign headquarters urged people to show self-restraint.

Interior Minister Sadeq Mahsouli, who supervised the elections and heads the nation's police forces, warned people not to join any "unauthorized gatherings." Earlier, the powerful Revolutionary Guard said it would not tolerate any challenges by Mousavi's "green" movement — the color adopted by Mousavi's campaign.

"I'm warning that I won't surrender to this manipulation," said a statement on Mousavi's Web site. "The outcome of what we've seen from the performance of officials ... is nothing but shaking the pillars of the Islamic Republic of Iran's sacred system and governance of lies and dictatorship."

He warned "people won't respect those who take power through fraud."

The headline on one of Mousavi's Web sites: "I wont give in to this dangerous manipulation." Mousavi and key aides could not be reached by phone.

It was even unclear how many Iranians were even aware of Mousavi's claims of fraud. Communications disruptions began in the later hours of voting Friday — suggesting an information clampdown. State television and radio only broadcast the Interior Ministry's vote count and not Mousavi's midnight press conference.

Nationwide, the text messaging system remained down Saturday and several pro-Mousavi Web sites were blocked or difficult to access. Text messaging is frequently used by many Iranians — especially young Mousavi supporters — to spread election news.

At Tehran University — the site of the last major anti-regime unrest in Tehran in 1999 — the academic year was winding down and there was no sign of pro-Mousavi crowds. But university exams, scheduled to begin Saturday, were postponed until next month around the country.

The state-run Islamic Republic News Agency reported that Ahmadinejad plans a public address later Saturday in Tehran.

Even before the count began, Mousavi declared himself "definitely the winner" based on "all indications from all over Iran." He accused the government of "manipulating the people's vote" to keep Ahmadinejad in power and suggested the reformist camp would stand up to challenge the results.

"It is our duty to defend people's votes. There is no turning back," Mousavi said, alleging widespread irregularities.

Mousavi's backers were stunned at the Interior Ministry's results after widespread predictions of a close race — or even a slight edge to Mousavi.

"Many Iranians went to the people because they wanted to bring change. Almost everybody I know voted for Mousavi but Ahmadinejad is being declared the winner. The government announcement is nothing but widespread fraud. It is very, very disappointing. I'll never ever again vote in Iran," said Mousavi supporter Nasser Amiri, a hospital clerk in Tehran.

Bringing any showdown into the streets would certainly face a swift backlash from security forces. The political chief of the powerful Revolutionary Guard cautioned Wednesday it would crush any "revolution" against the Islamic regime by Mousavi's "green movement."

The Revolutionary Guard is directly under the control of the ruling clerics and has vast influence in every corner of the country through a network of volunteer militias.

In Tehran, several Ahmadinejad supporters cruised the streets waving Iranian flags out of car windows and shouting "Mousavi is dead!"

Mousavi appealed directly to Iran's supreme leader, Khamenei, to intervene and stop what he said were violations of the law. Khamenei holds ultimate political authority in Iran. "I hope the leader's foresight will bring this to a good end," Mousavi said.

Iran does not allow international election monitors. During the 2005 election, when Ahmadinejad won the presidency, there were some allegations of vote rigging from losers, but the claims were never investigated.

The outcome will not sharply alter Iran's main policies or sway major decisions, such as possible talks with Washington or nuclear policies. Those crucial issues rest with the ruling clerics headed by the unelected Khamenei.

But the election focused on what the office can influence: boosting Iran's sinking economy, pressing for greater media and political freedoms, and being Iran's main envoy to the world.

Before the vote count, President Barack Obama said the "robust debate" during the campaign suggests a possibility of change in Iran, which is under intense international pressure over its nuclear program. There has been no comment from Washington since Ahmadinejad was declared the winner.

In Israel, the deputy foreign minister, Danny Ayalon, said "the re-election of Ahmadinejad demonstrates the increasing Iranian threat."

Former President Jimmy Carter said he expects no major change in Iran's policies.

"I think this election has bought out a lot of opposition to his policies in Iran, and I'm sure he'll listen to those opinions and hopefully moderate his position," said Carter after meeting with Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad in the West Bank city of Ramallah.

[Ignot]

Was there any doubt Ahmadinejad was going to win?

[Dhuul]

It's not really an election if its held in Iran...

[Androidpk]

Was there any doubt Ahmadinejad was going to win?

Legally? Yes.

[Fallen]

What a crock. At least the people are angry about it.

[Belnia]

Almost every analyst on the BCC was convinced that Ahmadinejad was going to go down hard, and take his party with him. The movement against him was well organized, tech-savvy and backed by the under-30 crowd which comprises a large percentage of the voting electorate.

Some of the election day stuff on the BBC coverage even reported the cell phone network in the country couldn't keep up with all the calls and texts being sent around, and a lot of polling stations had to extend their hours to allow more people to vote.

I'm going to guess you don't see turnout like that to keep an unpopular political figure in office.

[radamanthys]

He and Mugabe read the same book on election rules, I think.

[ElanthianSiren]

What a bunch of BS.

[radamanthys]

What a bunch of BS.

Ah, the very essence of Politics.

[ClydeR]

This is good news. If Mousavi had won, then that would just have delayed until a time when Iran was stronger the inevitable war between the United States and the Islamic Republic of Iran. Best to get it over with as soon as possible.

[radamanthys]

This is good news. If Mousavi had won, then that would just have delayed until a time when Iran was stronger the inevitable war between the United States and the Islamic Republic of Iran. Best to get it over with as soon as possible.

Fuck war. Lets make a new glass parking lot for our F-22s.

[Androidpk]

There are reports that Mousavi is under house arrest.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

There are reports that Mousavi is under house arrest.

I've been link-surfing on Twitter.. kind of incredible. A lot of updates straight out of Iran, camera phone pics, etc.

Someone posted this link, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcHT8-ps64w

The BBC got a lot of footage.

[ElanthianSiren]

I'm not sure Tehran would risk it, but watching that video made me see something like Tienanmen Square going down eventually if it's really that serious and continues.

[Androidpk]

I wouldn't be suprised. Will be very interesting to see what Obama's response would be to something like that.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I'm not sure Tehran would risk it, but watching that video made me see something like Tienanmen Square going down eventually if it's really that serious and continues.

Some more updates from following the Tehran Election and Change for Iran channels on Twitter:

- People have been jamming the roads while in their cars, so they can remain safe from brutality while protesting. Police are demanding they move and have resorted to now smashing people's windows who don't.

- Police are surrounding universities, with vans. Speculation that they're going to arrest students.

- The government is trying to get Twitter blocked, phone lines and technology is jammed.. a lot of people are finding work-arounds, however.

- The use of tear gas is not working/only escalating the situation

- 3 people confirmed dead from the riots

- Iranian Gov't is requesting all foreign media leave

- BBC reporters arrested again very recently (reporters who did the youtube clip, were arrested before)

- Rumors that Mousavi was arrested (not just house arrest) to be investigated for inciting riots



http://www.flickr.com/photos/mousavi1388/sets/72157619592664479/show/with/3621715877/

[radamanthys]

Holy shit. I didn't realize that it was that bad.

Good for them. A little revolution is good for the soul.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUxmr3xQoX4

Captured on a camera phone, apparently there are people in this yelling "Death to the Dictator" before the tear gas comes.


People are now checking reports that Iran Gov't arrested 10 opposition leaders who backed Mousavi.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Hope people don't mind the updates, I'm glued to this:

The last tweet to be recieved from Iran:

my eyes are burning hard to keep them open

- Reports now that police have entered university dormitories and are using tear gas against students.

- Service to cellphones being disabled due to inability to block social sites (twitter)

- Reports that the Telecommunications Building in Tehran is on fire.

[radamanthys]

Holy mother of god. Where are you watching this?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Twitter, namely the Iran Election channel/trending topic

Some more tweets:

gun shots and loud booms heard from Shahid Beheshti Uni, people screaming.

I'm dizzy but ok. some people are getting shelter in the nearby unfinished bank building. police arresting a middle aged man

police have attacked to girls dormitory

SMS still down. Internet works, limited. Some ISPs very slow. Most websites filtered. People use email

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2mRvMDZYto&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOm7PzNbv5U&feature=channel

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Other updates:

http://tehranbureau.com/2009/06/13/alerts-from-tehran/

[Translated] “Here the internet is horrible. After much trouble, I was able t log on through a proxy. I’ll try my best to get the news to you. I have news right now that in Shahrake Gharb [neighborhood in northeast Tehran] is absolute chaos. People are in the streets, they’re chanting. No sign of police. Their protest continues at this hour. I also hear that Niavaran [north Tehran] is a big chaotic too — at least until an hour ago. I’m sorry my information is fragmented. I’m afraid I’ll get disconnected. In Niavaran people are shouting from their homes. That way when police comes they quickly retreat; so they haven’t been able to arrest anyone. I’ve also heard that people captured a few of the Basij guys and gave him a beating. It feels like Martial Law here. Cell phones are down, internet lines are horrible, Facebook is filtered, and … I also have news from Ahvaz. They have also announced there that if someone comes out of their house they will be arrested. So keep your fingers crossed and pray for us. Tomorrow is a great day. I gave you the news. Please try to publish it. Thx.”

[ElanthianSiren]

I'm hooked now too and driving my boyfriend nuts. Thanks for the updates.

[radamanthys]

Damn it. So much for sleep.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

More Updates:

From one Iranian twitterer-

still no working cellphones here and wireless speed is awful

there is a rumor now in Farsi twitting community about mousavi being seen after 12h of no known location

according to rumor mousavi requested all people to gather near his office at 12:30 pm today.

we should all go, after all he is the real president


Another Twitterer:

He asked ppl not to come out alone, especially girls, come in groups [He is Mousavi]

dear followers: when newspapers are shut down and the media is state-run, we can just report what we hear/see

trying to confirm the news about mousavi


Another twitterer (female student):

have heard of attacks to Esfehan University of Technology, they've arrested a lot of students

they've shattered everything in dorms. Students're wounded.


Another one:

My Father has a truck load of ballot boxes that were to be burned in the back of his truck.

I have to shut down for a bit, the police are looking for satellites.


And another:
Iranian police searching door to door for satellite.



--



There's now speculation that Mousavi's request could be fake and an attempt to trap his supporters, people are trying to confirm whether it's the real thing or not.

[radamanthys]

They're attacking students with axes.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

..? Haven't read anything about that.


Update on Mousavi apparently asking supporters to gather is that it's fake/a trap of some kind.. updating Iranian blogs, etc are warning people not to go.

[radamanthys]

..? Haven't read anything about that.


Update on Mousavi apparently asking supporters to gather is that it's fake/a trap of some kind.. updating Iranian blogs, etc are warning people not to go.

Yea, I noticed. Either side could be reporting that, though.

The house arrest thing makes me think that it might be a trap.

[Miscast]

Wait, so Iranians are on Twitter but I'm not? Fuck..

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Yea, I noticed. Either side could be reporting that, though.

The house arrest thing makes me think that it might be a trap.

Yeah, I have a feeling a ton of people will still turn out just in case it's not.

[radamanthys]

Yeah, I have a feeling a ton of people will still turn out just in case it's not.

This might go from heroic history to horrifying in a quick moment.

[radamanthys]

The ministry of Industry- one of the major telecom hubs, is on fire.

drangbar is the username that posted that.

[radamanthys]

Mousavi's site says it's a trap?

[radamanthys]

Roads into tehran blocked by greens.

[Tea & Strumpets]

They're attacking students with axes.

Sometimes you have to wonder how much fact checking is involved with that whole twitter thing...

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Sometimes you have to wonder how much fact checking is involved with that whole twitter thing...

It's a social networking site, so while it's definitely got very good up-to-the-minute news, there's always bound to be some misinformation.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Annd I'm gone for most of the day until the afternoon:


http://twitpic.com/7dbl1

[Ker_Thwap]

I especially like Carter's naive comments.

[Fallen]

How many of you guys think you could actually go to the streets in a situation like that? Must be a terrifying choice to make.

[radamanthys]

How many of you guys think you could actually go to the streets in a situation like that? Must be a terrifying choice to make.

Depends on the cause. I'm not sure I could be as brave and bold as the Tienanmen square tank man, but I'd be out there just the same.

[ElanthianSiren]

Depends on the cause. I'm not sure I could be as brave and bold as the Tienanmen square tank man, but I'd be out there just the same.

I thought that was the former USSR. Possibly both places, but I think I remember something like that from Russia. Balls of steel to be sure.

Fallen's question is one of would this piss me off enough? Likely, but there are things with the potential to piss me off more that I'd have to weigh in a country like Iran. I'd think about the rest of my family/associates. If it was just myself, yes definitely.

[radamanthys]

I thought that was the former USSR. Possibly both places, but I think I remember something like that from Russia. Balls of steel to be sure.

Fallen's question is one of would this piss me off enough? Likely, but there are things with the potential to piss me off more that I'd have to weigh in a country like Iran. I'd think about the rest of my family/associates. If it was just myself, yes definitely.

It seems like something that should have happened in russia, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

There's quite a bit to consider. I think that everyone is capable of something, given enough... incentive.

[ElanthianSiren]

It seems like something that should have happened in russia, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

There's quite a bit to consider. I think that everyone is capable of something, given enough... incentive.

Oof. I guess I remembered wrong. That's awesome though and definitely the photo I was thinking of.

[radamanthys]

Oof. I guess I remembered wrong. That's awesome though and definitely the photo I was thinking of.

One of the bravest acts ever recorded in its own element (rather than by written/spoken account).

[ClydeR]

The Iran election controversy presents an opportunity to contrast the leadership styles of Bush and Obama.

If Bush were still president, he would already have issued a condemnation of Ahmadinejad and announced that the Iran election was a fraud. Then he would have boldly called on world leaders to impose sanctions on Iran. He would have refused to have any diplomatic relations with Iran until it changed its regime. And he would have directed the CIA and our other foreign operatives to take action to foment the Iranian protests in hopes of leading to the overthrow of Iran's illegitimate government.

Compare that to what Obama has done. The only thing Obama has done since the Iranian election was to announce that the White House is "monitoring" the situation. He hasn't even declared that the election was a fraud. And in his Cairo speech two weeks ago, he appeared to rule out manipulating the Iranian population into overthrowing Iran's government, like we did in 1953.


For many years, Iran has defined itself in part by its opposition to my country, and there is in fact a tumultuous history between us. In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government. Since the Islamic Revolution, Iran has played a role in acts of hostage-taking and violence against U.S. troops and civilians. This history is well known. Rather than remain trapped in the past, I've made it clear to Iran's leaders and people that my country is prepared to move forward. The question now is not what Iran is against, but rather what future it wants to build.

More... (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-at-Cairo-University-6-04-09/)

Ask yourself which approach you think is better. The unhesitating approach that Bush would have taken? Or the "monitoring" forbearance that Obama is doing?

[Androidpk]

BOBLAWBOB

This is what concerns me the most about Obama. I think he is going to do some harm to our national security if he continues with the way he is handling foreign affairs.

[Mabus]

So let me get this straight...

Bush stole the election in Iran...?

Diebold ran the election...?

Ahmadinejad's message of "Hope and Change" didn't bring him a clear victory and mandate...?

:rofl:



(on a serious note, my heart does go out to the people of Iran)

[Fallen]

I dont think that Obama can do any lasting harm to the United States because in 4 years we can elect someone as pro-war as we like. I DO think he can do lasting good for the United States, as it shows we are capable of electing someone like Obama.

I was less than thrilled with the government response, but I guess they are trying to gather intel.

If I were a betting man, I imagine Obama and Co. thinks cheating or not, this election is done and over. If he doesn't make a fuss over it, Mr. Crazypants over there will have either A. Less ground to run his mouth and blame America for everything, or B. Possibly even be willing to engage in further diplomatic communication with us.

[Androidpk]

I was less than thrilled with the government response, but I guess they are trying to gather intel.



And what about White House responses to North Korea? It's the SAME response every time.

1. Continuing provocative actions are deeply regrettable.

2. They have now been denounced by everyone and have become further isolated.

3. Still an open opportunity for North Korea to return to six-party nuclear disarmament talks.

[Stanley Burrell]

If Bush were still president, he would already have issued a condemnation of Ahmadinejad and announced that the Iran election was a fraud.

That would probably (in your hypothetical scenario) make most of the world believe the Iran election was actually legitimate.

[ClydeR]

I dont think that Obama can do any lasting harm to the United States because in 4 years we can elect someone as pro-war as we like. I DO think he can do lasting good for the United States, as it shows we are capable of electing someone like Obama.

The large proportion of Iran's population under the age of 25 is why the United States needs to act now.


http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/rmi08a/iranage.jpg
Source (http://www.brookings.edu/papers/2003/06middleeast_fuller.aspx)


The case of Iran is an interesting and significant case, where the clergy has actually switched policies dramatically in accordance with need. In 1965, the Shah introduced programs of family planning. This policy was quickly reversed after the Islamic Revolution in 1979, reflecting “social traditionalism” as well as the psychological and demographic pressures produced by a long and devastating war with Iraq. With the end of the war, and aided by higher levels of female education and economic hardship that encouraged greater birth control, the clerics reversed course again at the end of the 1980s and called for a sharp decline in the birth rate. The result was one of the fastest drops in fertility rates in the developing world yet seen.

More... (http://www.brookings.edu/fp/saban/fuller20030601.pdf)

If we don't act now to shape their young minds, we may delay for decades -- until it is too late -- our ability to impress upon them that we are not a people who can be pushed around. We need to force them to do a regime change and use our military to take out their nuclear program.

[ClydeR]

That would probably (in your hypothetical scenario) make most of the world believe the Iran election was actually legitimate.

Then why did Mitt Romney agree with me and not with you on the teevee today?


STEPHANOPOULOS: What do you think of the administration's response to the election so far and how would you respond?

ROMNEY: Well, first of all, the comments by the president last week that there was a robust debate going on in Iran was obviously entirely wrong-headed. What has occurred is that the election is a fraud, the results are inaccurate, and you're seeing a brutal repression of the people as they protest.

The president ought to come out and state exactly those words, indicate that this has been a terribly managed decision by the autocratic regime in Iran.

More... (http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Politics/Story?id=7835048&page=3)

We have all the proof we need. President Bush wouldn't have dallied while there was "monitoring." Now is the time for action.

[Stanley Burrell]

Then why did Mitt Romney agree with me and not with you on the teevee today?

lol. Because your constant botched-up Colbert impersonation has finally rewired your brain into a state of multiple personality disorder and you are starting to actually believe you're a conservative? :medieval:

I dunno, why?

[Ignot]

Yeah keep the updates coming!

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I dont think that Obama can do any lasting harm to the United States because in 4 years we can elect someone as pro-war as we like. I DO think he can do lasting good for the United States, as it shows we are capable of electing someone like Obama.

I was less than thrilled with the government response, but I guess they are trying to gather intel.

If I were a betting man, I imagine Obama and Co. thinks cheating or not, this election is done and over. If he doesn't make a fuss over it, Mr. Crazypants over there will have either A. Less ground to run his mouth and blame America for everything, or B. Possibly even be willing to engage in further diplomatic communication with us.


Not just that, but if we come out in clear support of the Mousavi supporters, and they 'lose', we're fucked as far as negotiating about nuclear stuff, etc. We have a tenuous "understanding" with Iran as it is, without allowing ourselves to be clearly indicated as "inciting" the riots, etc.

Beyond that, Ahmedinejhad has already blamed the US a lot in his speech earlier today. His party/supporters have also tried to disenfranchise the other candidates by saying they were supported/working with the US rather than purely on behalf of the Iranian people.

Obama is a shitty situation. I can't see Bush being outspoken about this either, at this moment-- for all his faults, I don't think he'd be all gung-ho, "let's piss off Iran" during a time of unrest like this.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I'm going to start posting some updates to info I'm seeing, just need some minutes to wade through it all.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://twitter.com/Change_for_Iran

Follow him, he's barricaded in a University Dorm. Apparently their current threat is NOT the Iranian Police but militants. One of the students is hurt and they can't leave because the people standing guard will shoot. He is begging Iranians to halt protests and try to help those like him that are trapped.. according to him there are rumors that at least 15 are seriously injured, 100 or so wounded. Also talks about seeing some buildings on fire and people building barracades.

Last tweet: Change_for_IranI really want to sleep right now, it's more than 48hours of rapid incidents. I wonder what mousavi is doing does he know?

Gita is the other I am following.. she locked her page out of fear of being tracked specifically by the Iranian Police due to her being one of the only female twitterers keeping current.

So far she is barricaded somewhere safe and is reporting using land lines with contacts within Iran. 4 students she has confirmed as dead.

Other info:

- Iranian students singing "Ey Iran" while trapped in their dormitories by Police and extremist groups.

-Some reporting seeing police beat anyone on the streets, not just students.. including elderly, etc.

- Cries for doctor/doctor trainees at Tehran Uni being tweeted. Wounded students unable to leave/seek help, when trying to they are being shot at.

- Iranian Gov't monitoring twitter, users in Iran warned to not give away location, identifying info, etc.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

New reports that Youtube is pulling Iranian videos of the riots and protests, from camera phones, etc.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Reports that some University students have captured 2 riot police officers are now streaming.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Now reported that Mousavi is saying he is "Under pressure to accept the results".

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/imanjafari/3624477353/in/photostream/

Students at Tehran U wounded

[Parkbandit]

How do we actually know that the election had such widespread fraud that it was 65/35? That's a shitload of fraud to happen. Could it be that Mousavi's supporters are just upset that Ahmedinejhad won?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Reporting 7 new deathes in diff. city (Shiraz), anyone stepping outside of their homes subject to arrest/punishment.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

How do we actually know that the election had such widespread fraud that it was 65/35? That's a shitload of fraud to happen. Could it be that Mousavi's supporters are just upset that Ahmedinejhad won?

The polling and such leading up shows him in a very bad third place.

Mousavi's primary demographic showed in a 85%-90% turn out, they had to keep polling places open even longer.

Also, there were reportedly over 60 million (I think) ballots cast, and Ahmedinejad was declared the landslide victor in under 2 hours of "tallying". Reports came from Mousavi and other opposition runners that their people were denied any access to the tallying places, only Ahmedinejhad's people were there.

Apparently there's also physical evidence of ballot box burns, with some people having recovered unopened boxes and hiding them. Time will tell but I'm not inclined to believe Ahmedinejhad was honest at all.

According to polls, etc the only way Ahmedinejhad could have won was if Mousavi's demographic didn't turn out in good numbers. They did-- so for him to have won by a "landslide" and in such a short stretch of time is very suspect.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Update on Youtube: servers for videos overloaded, no removing going on.

[Gan]

:popcorn:

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Reports that Iranian Gov't has revoked foreign media permits and threatens with jail time for any continued filming/coverage.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Iranian twitterers begging for more non-traceable proxies for them to access.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a34y2aHc16Q

Iranian Police beating protestors, including women

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Reports that Germany dissents with the EU and doesn't see Iran as having Ahm. as the fairly voted victor.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

- Lots of political backlash for media of peaceful female protestors being attacked w/ pepper spray, beaten

- Talks of march at 4 pm tomorrow, Iranian Time

- Students still trapped in Tehran Uni, asking for doctor's advice

- Students at Isfahan Uni. attacked

http://entesabat88.persianblog.ir/post/2/ (warning: in farsi, graphic pics)

[Gan]

Sounds like the younger Iranian generation is fed up with being repressed.

Curious to see if and how the government will quell this one and if force and isolation will succeed.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Rumor Tweet: Anti-riot forces and 'Basij' militia have entered Tehran University's dormitory and attacked students around 2:30am.

Another rumor tweet: people are chanting "Obama help us!"

CNN carrying story about Iranian violence and twitter

Amnesty International citing "shocking" beatings of Iranians within Iran

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Sounds like the younger Iranian generation is fed up with being repressed.

Curious to see if and how the government will quell this one and if force and isolation will succeed.


That's really how it's seeming.

I don't relish the violence at all, but I have to say the whole thing gives me a lot of hope for Iran. I'm really praying that they aren't beaten into submission by their Gov't and the escalation of the violence is making me think this won't be a massacre, this may turn into a full on revolution.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

- Iranian police confiscating dishes, phones, cameras.

- Talk about possible military coup unless a re-vote is made the official stance.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Tehran Dorm Pic:

http://twitpic.com/7frbk

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

- Supporters leaving doors unlocked so protestors have places to hide when police come.

- Iranian twitters thanking for continual providing of proxies/non-traceable hacks

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

- Mousavi denied permit to protest/assemble, reports that those close to him are saying march is expected to go on regardless

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

My cousin's husband is half-Iranian and a huge chunk of his family lives in Tehran. He's gotten non-constant updates via landline phone but a lot of cousins have been protesting and can verify the excessive violence. Good enough for me as it's family, dunno about you guys.


Also, new link:
http://community.livejournal.com/ontd_political/3325951.html

[Daniel]

Welp, work is really about to suck.

[Fallen]

Welp, work is really about to suck.

Lawl. I am glad I just came off of Inactive Reserve.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Demographics on Ahm's supposed victory:

Landslide win in all 30 provinces, all age groups, all classes. No demographics lost.

...

As a lot of people are saying, he can't even rig his own victory right. Even among the most popular of political candidates, that kind of win is virtually impossible.

[Daniel]

Lawl. I am glad I just came off of Inactive Reserve.

Luckily I don't see us sending in soldiers to Iran under any circumstances. We'll see how this all turns out though.

This is going to immensely complicate the upcoming elections in Afghanistan though...if not like the entire war.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Luckily I don't see us sending in soldiers to Iran under any circumstances. We'll see how this all turns out though.

This is going to immensely complicate the upcoming elections in Afghanistan though...if not like the entire war.

Well, if they are successful in over-turning Ahm. and co, I forsee a lot of freaking out in other Middle Eastern areas (including Afghanistan).

[Stanley Burrell]

I like how when headscarf-clad Christiane Amanpour asked Ahmajinidad about the violence and he said it was just minor stuff that you see at soccer games and that people were just being fined.

I didn't really like it though. I loved it. Long time. With my pp.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I like how when headscarf-clad Christiane Amanpour asked Ahmajinidad about the violence and he said it was just minor stuff that you see at soccer games and that people were just being fined.

I didn't really like it though. I loved it. Long time. With my pp.

His behavior seems to have only stoked anger.

The younger generation seems legitimately pissed off.. even with violence/threat of death the protests and riots are continuing.

[Daniel]

Well, if they are successful in over-turning Ahm. and co, I forsee a lot of freaking out in other Middle Eastern areas (including Afghanistan).

Really? Like where? The Arabs, Indians and all those central asian groups who don't like Persians\Shiia's (read: most of central asia) would certainly be happy. You'd have a lot of salafis and other hard core fundamentalists kinda not happy but they're already in areas where everyone is freaking out as is. I guess that's kinda the good part about having a fucked up world.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Really? Like where? The Arabs, Indians and all those central asian groups who don't like Persians\Shiia's (read: most of central asia) would certainly be happy. You'd have a lot of salafis and other hard core fundamentalists kinda not happy but they're already in areas where everyone is freaking out as is. I guess that's kinda the good part about having a fucked up world.

My mind is only a bit on this thread (i.e. still focusing on other news sources) but it sends the message that the US inciting violence is not the only sort of "overthrow" to be feared and prevented. I need to find the piece but I've seen some well written articles about how Iran doing turn-around without incitement from foreign countries would send a very clear message that behavior is scrutinized even more closely within than outside.. basically that other countries that rely on this sort of "Hate the West" rhetoric can't count on that to keep the peace.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

- Reports of people now chanting "Dirty Liar" to Ahm.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Reporter arrested, beaten and released: talks about it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/globe-freelancer-detained-beaten/article1181792/

"My journalist credentials and Canadian passport got me out of the Interior Ministry building, but dozens of others remained in that basement."

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

-- Allgegations Ahm. employing/using Hezbollah to control protestors.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Alleged real quote:

"Iran is the most stable country in the world" - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Massive assortment of proxies and proxy-hacking info being given and requested to be re-tweeted so Iranian protesters see it/can use it.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

I'm headed to bed and will update further tomorrow. Sorry if my constant updates were annoying.

[Daniel]

My mind is only a bit on this thread (i.e. still focusing on other news sources) but it sends the message that the US inciting violence is not the only sort of "overthrow" to be feared and prevented. I need to find the piece but I've seen some well written articles about how Iran doing turn-around without incitement from foreign countries would send a very clear message that behavior is scrutinized even more closely within than outside.. basically that other countries that rely on this sort of "Hate the West" rhetoric can't count on that to keep the peace.

No worries. I know you said you have family, and yea I agree with that. I don't neccessarily see that as a bad thing though.

[Atlanteax]

One can only hope that the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who *did* order the Guardian Council (the most powerful governing body in Iran) to investigate the election results, and rules that Ahmadinejad's "victory" was indeed fraudulent.

I think his primary hesitation is not wanting to cause turmoil in Iran, or undermine whatever government "stability" that there is. ie, him thinking it'll be the "lesser evil" to allow Ahmadinejad to stay on for another term, and then a reformist winning the next election.

However, I'd argue that *now* is Iran's greatest opportunity to leverage Iraq/Afghan with an accommodating U.S. President (wishy-washy Obama) ... and that Mousavi "should" be declared President (odds seem that Ahmadinejad pulled a Chavez) ... in the interests of Iran's future prosperity and relations with the West.

I'd say best decision/outcome at this point, is that a run-off election (which would had happened if no candidate got more than 50% of the vote) is ordered to be held between Ahmadinejad and Mousavi.

[ElanthianSiren]

How are you going to make sure the runoff isn't fraudulent though, or do you believe the attention on Iran will be enough at this point?

I don't understand why Ahm. didn't just make sure he won by 5-7% of the vote and called it done if he really wanted to cheat. Ego?

edit: I'll admit that it's interesting to see the Ayatollah have to reverse his position based on the peoples' malcontent, sort of like watching the infallible become fallible.

[Atlanteax]

Runoff is far more unlikely to be fraudulent because everyone (in Iran) will be on the look-out for anything that gives a whiff otherwise during a run-off process.

It's one thing to go vote, and expect everything to be fine ... and to go vote and ensure yours and others' ballots are legitimately tabulated.

[ClydeR]

How do we actually know that the election had such widespread fraud that it was 65/35? That's a shitload of fraud to happen. Could it be that Mousavi's supporters are just upset that Ahmedinejhad won?

It would be reckless to wait for the final proof, the smoking gun. I agree with Mitt Romney that Obama should immediately declare the Iranian election to be a fraud.

[ClydeR]

One can only hope that the Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who *did* order the Guardian Council (the most powerful governing body in Iran) to investigate the election results, and rules that Ahmadinejad's "victory" was indeed fraudulent.

Many people believe it would be impossible to have widespread election fraud with out his participation. We should not naively expect his ordered inspection to reveal the truth.

[Androidpk]

It would be reckless to wait for the final proof, the smoking gun. I agree with Mitt Romney that Obama should immediately declare the Iranian election to be a fraud.

When did Romney say that?

*nvm, found it*

[4a6c1]

Zip up Iran. Your dictator is showing.

Fuck I feel bad for those women over there. Because you know what comes next. 'Put on the black curtains girls, the president says he liked the middle ages better!'. Iran used to be a cool country before all this extremist crap got popular. It used to be a good place to do business.

Also, Obama is embaressing me. I wish we could get a leader who wasnt afraid of mediating right now. That would be nice. Even a Jimmy Carter would be an improvement. Fonzi, Bueller. SOMETHING.

[Jorddyn]

Also, Obama is embaressing me. I wish we could get a leader who wasnt afraid of mediating right now. That would be nice. Even a Jimmy Carter would be an improvement. Fonzi, Bueller. SOMETHING.

Yea, if only we could get someone to return their phone calls. Or faxes. Damn Obama.

Wikipedia, I know...


In 2003, before invading Iraq, the Bush administration reportedly received a fax from the Iranian government, containing overtures to the United States. With the help of the American Iranian Council (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Iranian_Council), Iran purportedly made a secret proposal for a "grand bargain", which would have resolved outstanding issues between the U.S. and Iran, including Iran's support for terrorist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations) groups such as Hamas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas) and Hezbollah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah) and its nuclear program.[51] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-Iran_relations#cite_note-autogenerated1-50) The document came shortly after the 2003 invasion of Iraq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq) and Bush administration officials, including Richard Armitage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Armitage_(politician)), thought the Khatami government and the Swiss ambassador in Tehran were "promising more than it could deliver". Others, such as Vali Nasr and Gary Sick consider it a missed opportunity.[51] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-Iran_relations#cite_note-autogenerated1-50) The fax never received a reply and there continued to be no official relations between the two countries.[52] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-Iran_relations#cite_note-51) According to Trita Parsi, author of Treacherous Alliance: The Secret Dealings of Israel, Iran and the United States,[53] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-Iran_relations#cite_note-52) Lawrence Wilkerson, former secretary of state Colin Powell's chief of staff, told him "it was Cheney and Rumsfeld who made sure that Washington dismissed Iran's May 2003 offer to open up its nuclear program, rein in Hezbollah and cooperate against al-Qaeda."[54] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-Iran_relations#cite_note-53)

Now, I'm not saying Obama shouldn't get involved sometime soon. I am saying perhaps you should make sure you're including W in your embarrasment for our Middle East policy.

[ClydeR]

McCain agreed with Romney's comments from yesterday that we need immediate action. McCain said it was "obvious that this was a rigged election."


“The reaction of the Iranian people shows their discontent with this regime,” McCain said during an interview on Fox News’ “Fox & Friends.”

“It’s really a sham that they've pulled off and I hope that we will act,” he said.

More... (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0609/23747.html)

I guess that will shut up Certain People in this forum who urge caution and want to wait for more information. "Act" is the operative word from conservatives in this country. Acting now would be the responsible thing to do.

[4a6c1]

Yea, if only we could get someone to return their phone calls. Or faxes. Damn Obama.

Wikipedia, I know...


Now, I'm not saying Obama shouldn't get involved sometime soon. I am saying perhaps you should make sure you're including W in your embarrasment for our Middle East policy.

Barking up the wrong tree, sweetcheeks. I didnt vote for old EARS, there. I voted for some libertarian guy who likes guns alot. He lost. :(

[Parkbandit]

Yea, if only we could get someone to return their phone calls. Or faxes. Damn Obama.

Wikipedia, I know...


Now, I'm not saying Obama shouldn't get involved sometime soon. I am saying perhaps you should make sure you're including W in your embarrasment for our Middle East policy.

The ol' "But look what Bush did" defense mechanism.

Awesome.

[Jorddyn]

The ol' "But look what Bush did" defense mechanism.

Awesome.

I specifically stated I wasn't saying Obama shouldn't do something. I was pointing out the failure of the prior government to do something for nearly 6 years, and saying give the new guy a while to fix the mess that's been building for at least 6 years. Especially when he's also involved in managing wars on two fronts, and dealing with the mass financial chaos on the home front.

[4a6c1]

You are forgiven. If I can call you sweetcheeks 4ever. And if you call me your creepy uncle. And if I can slap your bum and call you a dirty socialist.

[Parkbandit]

I specifically stated I wasn't saying Obama shouldn't do something. I was pointing out the failure of the prior government to do something for nearly 6 years, and saying give the new guy a while to fix the mess that's been building for at least 6 years. Especially when he's also involved in managing wars on two fronts, and dealing with the mass financial chaos on the home front.

We all read what you posted.. it was highly entertaining. No need to re-explain why Obama hasn't done anything, especially when Bush lied and people died for so many years.

[Jorddyn]

You are forgiven. If I can call you sweetcheeks 4ever. And if you call me your creepy uncle. And if I can slap your bum and call you a dirty socialist.

Only if you can accurately define socialism and explain its relevance to this discussion.



We all read what you posted.. it was highly entertaining. No need to re-explain why Obama hasn't done anything, especially when Bush lied and people died for so many years.

BUT BUSH = Bush did it, so it is ok if Obama does.
What I said = If you're going to scold Obama for not taking action in 4 months, scold Bush for a huge missed opportunity, and not taking action in 4 years. And I think both deserve a frowny face.

See the difference?

Let me respond for you - OMG STUPID LIBERAL APOLOGIST COMMIE SOCIALIST!

[4a6c1]

Only if you can accurately define socialism and explain its relevance to this discussion.



Ok, but does it have to be factual?? Can I still slap you on the bum if I make something up?

[radamanthys]

Ok, but does it have to be factual?? Can I still slap you on the bum if I make something up?

It's better to ask for forgiveness than for permission.

[Atlanteax]

As for Jorddyn's link of the Bush Administration declining Iran's proposal after the 2003 invasion of Iraq...

I believe I commented before on how it was a missed opportunity that could had spared us much of the following headache with the "insurgency" (which was Iran-sponsored, incidentally).

However, we have North Korea as the bonafide example ... how do we know that Iran would had *delivered* on the promises they made in that proposal? One could argue that we'd be lampooning Bush right now, for the concessions made to Iran, after they flipped us the finger regardless of the good intentions and continued on with their nuclear weapon program.

Right now, compared to 2-3 years ago, Iraq can be said to be "stabilized" to the extent that we're removing troops from Iraq. Nevermind that we'd probably be "well, that's all done with now" in reference to Iraq/Afghan if it wasn't for the Taliban in Afghan/Paki, with it being still drawn out (shifting from Iraq to Afghan).

.

In the meantime... the Bush Administration *made a decision* and followed through on it (for better or worse) ... while Obama is currently crossing his fingers and hoping that this Iran problem "solves itself" for him...

... and THAT will be the "missed opportunity" that will be discussed in reference to Iran.

[Geshron]

Dun yoo think we shuld hug all the mooslims instead? Huh?

-Hevinsbane

[ClydeR]

See if you think this photo is fake.


http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/rmi08a/i05_19370133.jpg

It's photo #5 from this list. http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html#photo5

The reason I think it might be fake is because the writing on the policeman's back is in English.

Since most of the news from Iran is coming from anonymous Twitters and such, we don't know that the news is real and not something cunningly contrived to mislead the Iranians and the rest of the world.

[Ignot]

In the meantime... the Bush Administration *made a decision* and followed through on it (for better or worse) ... while Obama is currently crossing his fingers and hoping that this Iran problem "solves itself" for him...

... and THAT will be the "missed opportunity" that will be discussed in reference to Iran.

I don't think "making a decision" is any compliment to a former U.S. President and I would give Bush a lot more credit then that. Bush and Obama make tough decisions everyday, that's their job. I don't think that because ANY president is not taking fast action means that they are not making decisions. Maybe he is waiting for the right moment. Maybe it will turn out to be a big mistake or a huge success. Who knows?

[Atlanteax]

OR ... they buy their police uniforms in wholesale packages from a company that primarily distributes to the US Market ... and Iranian authorities don't mind it so much because they speak English too?

[ElanthianSiren]

The government seem to be organizing counter protests now but still not letting foreign news media in to shoot the footage. I'm suspicious.

[Atlanteax]

The government seem to be organizing counter protests now but still not letting foreign news media in to shoot the footage. I'm suspicious.

Sounds like they're referencing the Chavez political playbook.

[Atlanteax]

Further Updates:


Iran: No Students Died In Tehran University Riots - University President
June 16, 2009 1558 GMT
University of Tehran President Farhad Rahbar said June 16 that, despite earlier reports, no students were killed during recent riots at the university, Iranian news agency ISNA reported.

was followed by...


Iran: 119 Tehran University Faculty Members Resign?
June 16, 2009 1628 GMT
One hundred and nineteen Tehran University faculty members have resigned en masse to protest an attack on Tehran University dormitories the night of June 15, according to a June 16 posting in The Daily Dish blog at TheAtlantic.com, which cited an article from Bambad Khabar translated by a reader. Among those who resigned is Dr. Jabbedar Maralani, known as the father of electronic engineering in Iran. The resigned faculty members have called for the resignation of Tehran University's appointed president, Farhad Rahbari, for his incompetence in defending student lives and the university's dignity.

Seems that the University President was cowed by Ahmj's political backers.

.

In the meantime, it looks like this is starting to gain some momentum, particularly with:


Iran: Dissident Ayatollah Asks Youth To Protest Peacefully
June 16, 2009 1607 GMT
The dissident Iranian Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri asked the country's youth to "claim their rights" peacefully, Agence France-Presse reported June 16.

[ClydeR]

Our subversive liberal media is at it again.


The election results in Iran may reflect the will of the Iranian people. Many experts are claiming that the margin of victory of incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the result of fraud or manipulation, but our nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin -- greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday's election.

More... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/14/AR2009061401757.html)

This is why we would have been better off electing Romney (http://www.forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=953385&postcount=53) or McCain (http://www.forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=953863&postcount=105). They recognize that now is the time to leap into action, not the time to look for more evidence.

Public perception has already formed. No matter what the inspection shows, it's not going to change.

[Parkbandit]

BUT BUSH = Bush did it, so it is ok if Obama does.
What I said = If you're going to scold Obama for not taking action in 4 months, scold Bush for a huge missed opportunity, and not taking action in 4 years. And I think both deserve a frowny face.

See the difference?

Let me respond for you - OMG STUPID LIBERAL APOLOGIST COMMIE SOCIALIST!

Instead of actually addressing the topic of Obama not responding to the election results in Iran, you chose to deflect by saying Bush did the same thing and they both deserve frowny faces... instead of saying Obama should have responded.

That's my point.

[Latrinsorm]

which cited an article from Bambad Khabar translated by a reader.It's staggering how slowly the Western world is learning the languages of the Muslim world.

[Gan]

Didnt someone refer to speaking Muslim earlier on these boards?

(lol)

[Androidpk]

That was ClydeR.

[Atlanteax]

Well, I've recently been doing more reading on the situation in Iran ... and there is the suggestion that it should *not* come as a surprise that Ahmj won by that kind of margin.

1) Western Media/Culture is *not* able to get a pulse on the rural/poorer Iranian population, which far outnumbers the portion that is tech-savvy enough to make their voice known on twitter/internet/whatever and/or has a strong grasp of the English language to be able to communicate to Westerners.

2) so as a result of #1, what we're seeing right now, is a highly-skewed perspective of the situation, as Mousvi's supporters tend to also be the portion of the Iranian population able to interact with the West.

3) the "issues" that Ahmj "stands for" such as emphasis on religion and its role in tight-knit communities of families (a comparison could be drawn to the U.S. Bible Belt) and the promise of a strong Iran with emphasis on nature security and being able to stand up to the West (an empowering feeling to offset the humiliation/despair at "losing" the Iraq-Iran war a couple of decades ago) .. "speaks more" to that poorer/rural population. Versus the promise of personal liberities and such (that the West tends to consider to be the status quo for their societies) that "speaks more" to Mousavi supporters.

4) so as a result, it can lead to a biased perspective on the West's part that the promise of liberalism (personal freedoms, greater rights for women, etc etc) is being "suppressed" in Iran by Ahmj's victory and the administration's response to the protests. Particularly since we don't really "hear" the Iranians that indeed prefer the status quo (more Ahmj), since they shy away from the West.

.

I found it to be an interesting thought-process, as I was rooting for Mousavi to win the election instead of Ahmj (for reasons such as wanting an Iran more accomodative to the West) ... and figured that Ahmj's economic mismanagement would be a detraction for him, but underestimated how most Iranians are fine with that (Iran's economic problems) if it meant keeping the status quo of their day-to-day life.

Perhaps a bit more-so, when we as part of the West, are fully into the separation of Church and State, and lead lives that are mostly free of religious influences ... which would lead us to be scratching our heads in trying to understand why (most) Iranians are not strong supporters of the economic/personal/political liberalism that we take for granted.

That being said, I don't get the impression at all that Iran is hard-core pro-religion (Islam), like Afghan/NW-Pakinstan ... just more in the middle between the low emphasis on religion in the West and the high emphasis exercised by Afghan/NW-Pakinstan.

[Parkbandit]

I just find it unlikely that the paper ballots could have been counted in 3-4 hours to determine the winner.

[Ignot]

I just find it unlikely that the paper ballots could have been counted in 3-4 hours to determine the winner.

I must have missed that. 3 -4 hours? I agree that sounds like bullshit.

[Ashlander]

They had the ballots counted before some polls were closed.

[Mikalmas]

The last count I had heard was they reported to have counted 19% or so within 3 or 4 hours, and at about 24 hours (maybe a little less?) they supposedly had counted 91% of the paper ballots by hand...when over 31million ballots were cast.

[Atlanteax]

Now this strongly suggested fraud in the ballots:



Iran: Election Turnouts Over 100 Percent In 30 Towns - Unconfirmed Report
June 17, 2009 1708 GMT
Results from the June 12 presidential election listed June 17 on the the centrist Ayandeh website indicate that turnouts of over 100 percent were recorded in at least 30 towns; 26 provinces across the country showed participation levels either unheard of in democratic elections or in excess of the number of registered voters; and at least 200 polling stations recorded participation rates of 95 percent or above, the Guardian reported. Also, former Iranian interior minister, Ali Akbar Mohtashamipour, said June 16 that 70 polling stations returned more completed ballots papers than the number of locally eligible voters.

[Ashlander]

Also, former Iranian interior minister, Ali Akbar Mohtashamipour, said June 16 that 70 polling stations returned more completed ballots papers than the number of locally eligible voters.

Well in their defense they did have to replace the ballots they burned.

[Gan]

Well in their defense they did have to replace the ballots they burned.

LOL

[Atlanteax]

Providing the following for others to read...

.

Iran: Text of Mousavi's Letter to the Guardians Council

June 22, 2009 | 2152 GMT

Editor’s Note: The text that follows is a translation of a letter by Iranian presidential candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi originally published in Persian on June 20 by Qalam news, a Web site launched in April as one of Mousavi’s official news Web sites. STRATFOR cannot confirm the authenticity of the letter.

Honorable Guardian Council!

The enthusiastic participation of the Iranian people in the 10th presidential election, which was at least 20 percent higher than in the previous election, and brought to the ballot boxes millions of people who had shown no desire to take part in previous elections, produced an epic event that was unprecedented in the three decades of the Islamic revolution of Iran and Iranian democracy. Although they [the government] produced the results that were different from the way that they were, and although by distorting the results they have — like in other occasions — unjustly portrayed themselves as the winners; nevertheless, the social intelligence and enthusiasm of the Iranian nation will not believe so much injustice and violation of the law in its historical memory [presumably future generations will not believe so much injustice and unlawful acts].

I will continue my efforts within the context of the constitution and the existing laws of the country in order to reveal the truth and to regain the rights of the noble Iranian people. Hereby, I will explain some of the violations that were committed in the course of the 10th presidential election. It is clear that this constitutes only a part of the truth and of all the violations. In future, not only I, but also the Iranian nation and the Iranian history will provide greater details and will reveal more facts about those violations for future generations and in order to have them recorded and documented. Preparations had been made from many months ago for those violations and for planning those disgusting acts.

1. The inspection of the ballot boxes prior to voting: As the health and the fairness of the votes that have been cast in the ballot boxes would require that those votes are exactly the same votes that have been cast by the voters, it is necessary for the boxes to be carefully examined prior to voting. It should be ascertained whether the boxes are empty or not [as published] before they are sealed in the polling stations. This should be done in the presence and with the knowledge of the representatives of the candidates. This was not done in most polling stations.

2. The presence of the representatives of the candidates: According to note two of the single article of the law regarding the presence of the representatives of the candidates [at polling stations], the Interior Ministry was duty-bound to issue the cards of the representatives of the candidates who supervise the election and to hand the card to them 48 hours prior to the day of the election, and to inform them of the relevant places [the addresses of different polling stations]. However, basically the governors and the Interior Ministry have not acted in accordance with their legal duties, because:

First, no cards had been issued for a large number of the representatives of the candidates, and introducing those representatives [to those in charge of polling stations].

Second, in many cases, the cards that had been issued were done in such a way that they could not be used, and the observers could not be admitted to the polling stations by presenting those cards. For instance, in numerous cases, the names of the individuals had been wrong names, and in many cases the photographs of men had been placed on the cards of women or vice versa. In practice, those in charge of the ballot boxes did not allow the observers who had been introduced [by the candidates] to be present [at the stations] with those cards.

Third, the cards issued for the representatives of the candidates had been issued on the basis of the whims of the officials from different governors’ offices. They were also issued for the polling stations that were different from those specified by the candidates. In practice, this made it impossible for the presence of the representatives of the candidates [at the specified polling stations] due to various reasons. These included distance, not having any prior knowledge about the place [address] of the polling stations, the representatives’ lack of knowledge about the situation of the place, and even not knowing the officials in charge of the ballot boxes.

Fourth, in many cases, the number of the ballot boxes for which the observers had been introduced [to which they had been allocated] had been different from the boxes that had been in the place [polling station]. Consequently, the officials in charge of the ballot boxes had refused to admit the observers introduced by the candidates. Consequently, there has been no possibility of being present and observing [the voting].

Fifth, on numerous occasions, the cards that had been issued for the observers introduced by one candidate had been sent to the representatives of another candidate, and due to the shortage of time there had been no possibility of correcting the mistake and replacing the representatives.

Sixth, According to the second part of the single article about the participation of the representatives of presidential candidates, the representatives of the candidates can be present both in fixed and mobile stations, as well as in the places where the counting machines are situated. Also, in case they notice any violations they can report it in writing to the observers from the Guardian Council and to the supervisory bodies from various towns and cities and to the headquarters of the Ministry of Interior… [Ellipses as published]. Later on, in that article it is pointed out: “The presence of the representatives of any of the candidates right to the end of voting period in the premises where the counting machines are situated is forbidden and will be regarded as an offence, and those who violate this law will be liable to between six months and a year’s jail sentence.” [Sentence as published, presumably preventing the presence of the representatives… is forbidden].

Despite the fact that the laws of our country have prescribed such heavy penalties for those who violate these laws, throughout the country thousands of my representatives and the representatives of other candidates had been expelled from the polling stations. Also, many others had not been allowed to carry out their supervisory duties in keeping with the relevant laws and regulations. Only in one part of Tehran hundreds of my observers and those of other candidates had been expelled, and their reports to responsible officials had also been ignored. A large number of others who had not been expelled had also been deprived of any information regarding the course of the voting.

3. The story of mobile ballot boxes: According to the article of the law regarding the presidential elections, the allocation of mobile boxes would only be limited to mountainous areas that are difficult to access, to remote places and to places where it is not possible to have fixed voting stations. Despite having good weather in all parts of the country in the middle of the month of Khordad [early June], the number of mobile boxes were increased in an unexpected way and to a remarkable degree. Some of these mobile boxes were used in places where only a few meters away there had been a polling station and where there had been no need to make use of mobile boxes. This illegal act had been carried out despite the protest of the committee in charge of safeguarding the votes.

This had also been done contrary to the explicit text of the law allowing the presence of the representatives of all the candidates both in the stationary and in mobile polling stations. The observers who had been introduced had been refused [entry to the polling stations] by the officials of the governors, and it had not been possible for them to accompany the mobile boxes when they were moved from one place to the next. In view of the existence of about 14,000 mobile boxes, in practice there has been every possibility for tampering with those boxes, and may be this has in fact been the reason for the insistence to increase the number of mobile boxes.

4. Ballot papers: Normally, the number of the ballot papers that are printed and distributed at each period [presidential election] is in keeping with the number of eligible voters produced by the Population Statistics Centre of Iran and by the National Registry Office. Usually, in order to ensure that there is no shortage of ballot papers during the voting, a reasonable percentage of more ballot papers are printed. For this election, the Statistics Centre and the National Registry Office had announced that the number of eligible voters would be about 45,200,000 people, and 59,600,000 ballot papers had been printed with serial numbers. However, on 21st Khordad [ 11th June] millions of additional ballot papers were printed without any serial numbers. The printing of that number of ballot papers is questionable and noteworthy by itself. However, despite printing so many ballot papers, it is not clear why many polling stations, especially in some cities such as Tabriz and Shiraz and northern, eastern and western parts of Tehran where the level of people’s interest in the candidates that were critical of the present president was very high, faced shortages of ballot papers in the early hours of the day, and people had to wait for a long time in long queues in rain and storm.

5. Limiting the time of voting: Despite the interest of the members of the public to cast their votes in this election, something that everybody has admitted and which is also confirmed by the number of people who voted, it is not clear why contrary to the normal procedures and despite the shortage of ballot papers, in some places where people had not had the chance to vote at the right time, the officials in charge of holding the election were in such a great hurry to limit the time of voting! In many cases, not only by closing the doors of the polling stations the officials in charge of those stations prevented the people from joining the queues, they even expelled some people from the stations on the excuse that the time of voting had ended. This was done despite the fact that the Voice and Vision [radio and television] in its official announcements declared the opposite. In any case, past practices and the spirit of the law dictate that so long as one person is present in the voting station, the time of voting must be extended (paragraph 1-5 of the executive regulations of the law).

Furthermore, according to principle six of the constitution, the governance of the country is based on the votes of the public, and voting is the natural right of all citizens. The decision by the minister of interior to extend the period of voting is not a matter of choice and personal taste. He should consider various conditions, situations and circumstances in such a way that no citizen who is present at the polling stations is deprived of exercising his natural right. Yet, despite the fact that as mentioned before this time the level of public participation was very high and there was also a shortage of ballot papers in different parts, which would have necessitated an extension of the voting period to the maximum limit, nevertheless, contrary to previous elections, the honorable minister of interior limited the extension of the time for voting in different parts of the country. Contrary to normal practice, in many parts of the country it was announced that the deadline for voting would expire at nine o’clock. Despite having gone to the polling stations, many of the citizens were deprived of casting their votes, and they were expelled from the polling stations.

It is very regrettable that despite the fact that the gentlemen had deafened the people throughout the country with their slogan of the need for the maximum participation of the people in the election, in practice they acted differently. Despite the fact that four of my representatives had got in touch with the Ministry of Interior and had asked to meet with the minister, as had been customary in the past, the honorable minister had refused to meet with them. Consequently, as the result of the decisions of the Interior Ministry, and the haste that was shown in announcing the results of the voting in keeping with their own views, the rights of many of the citizens were violated and many of them were deprived of their right to vote.

6. Transferring the ballot boxes to the headquarters of the governors’ offices: The election law and the relevant regulations, as well as the law about the right of supervision by the representatives of the candidates, have to a large extent defined the extent of the duties of all the officials, and the executive and supervisory bodies. The least expectation of the candidates is that even if the spirit of law is not taken into consideration, at least the letter of the law and the minimum requirements of it will be observed. Unfortunately, in this election no attention was paid to this issue. Not only had there been a great deal of obstructionism at the stage of issuing the cards of the representatives of different candidates, not only had the officials made use of different tricks and had refused to issue the cards of the representatives of the candidates and giving them their cards in time; at the final stages too, in the course of the voting and safeguarding people’s trust, the law and morality had been trampled under foot as well.

During the process of counting the votes, preparing the minutes and filling the relevant forms, and transferring the ballot boxes from the polling stations to the headquarters of the governors’ offices, there had been no supervision by the representatives of different candidates in charge of observing the process in order to make sure that the contents of the boxes corresponded with the minutes that had been prepared.

While people were still continuing to cast their votes in some polling stations due to the delay in sending the ballot papers; contrary to the law, the relevant officials started reading the votes and announced the results of five million votes on the Voice and Vision. Furthermore, this was not done on the basis of counting the votes by hand or on the basis of the minutes and legal forms and the announcements by the offices of various governors. On the contrary, it was done purely on the basis of the declaration of the boxes [as published, presumably exit polls] and through computers [computerized counting]. However, according to the explicit text of the law, the national election headquarters should have announced the votes of each region separately and on the basis of the announcements made by the offices of different governors.

In addition to all the violations committed in the course of voting, basically the results of the votes that were announced by the headquarters in charge of collecting all the votes, in no way corresponded with the forecasts of the votes by a large number of observers who had been present by the ballot boxes and who had gone to various towns and villages due to the participation of new candidates [in the election]. They also did not fit in with previous voting results, and the number of the votes that had been cast for victorious candidates in the past. Basically, what had been done in the election headquarters and was broadcast on the Voice and Vision did not accord with the reality at all.

In this connection, the reports of each of the representatives who had been appointed by the three candidates to the central election headquarters of the country, which had been reported at 2.15 in the morning as follows, is a matter of great interest.

Timed 2.15 in the morning of 23/3/88 [ 13 June 2009] Honorable minister of interior, Your Excellency Mr. Mahsuli, with greetings!

A few minutes ago, some figures were released to the domestic and foreign media by the National Election Headquarters and by Mr. Daneshju. However, we the representatives of the candidates in the counting sites of the Ministry of Interior have no information about how those figures were gathered, counted and broadcast. As on the basis of articles 18 and 23 of the law and on the basis of former practices in presidential elections, the Ministry of Interior should announce the results (after receiving the minutes) it seems that the present announcement of the results is not in keeping with the law.

Meanwhile, the area [office] that has been allocated to the representatives of the candidates is a long way away from the place where the votes are being counted and there is no connection between this area and that site. Consequently, with the continuation of the present situation, our presence
or absence would make no difference.

[Signed] Seyyed Abbas Ahmadi (the representative of Engineer Mir Hossein
Mousavi) Ata’ollah Sohrabi (the representative of Mohsen Rezaie) Mas’ud
Soltanifar (the representative of Mr. [Mehdi] Karrubi)

Copies to: The office of the esteemed leader [Ayatollah Ali Khamenei]
The central group in charge of supervising the election
The honorable chairman of the election headquarters

That letter was published under the circumstances that the law explicitly stresses the right of the representatives of the candidates to be present [involved] at different stages. Also, articles 18 and 32 of the presidential election law are clearly contrary to the action taken by the election headquarters and the decisions that have been taken in a room with the participation of Messrs Daneshju, Mahsuli and one other individual.

7. The method used for the compilation of the basket of votes [presumably counting of votes or final results]: An issue that is of interest in this election and that has to be placed next to other issues regarding the health of the election, is the issue of the relatively fixed ratio of votes for different candidates in all parts of the country. In other words, the graph of the votes of different candidates from the start of the counting of the votes to the final nation-wide announcement of those results is in the form of a straight line without any fluctuation. The votes have been arranged in such a way that they would have the outcome that has been announced. For instance, even in the birthplaces of different candidates the number of votes of the candidate who has been declared the winner by the Ministry of Interior has been the same as in other regions. At the same time, it is worth noting that the announcement of the results has been carried out contrary to past practices, and without mentioning the votes of different regions separately.

Some violations prior to voting: In addition to these serious violations that represent only a part of all the violations that have been committed, and only one of which is sufficient to declare the election null and void, one should add that from the start the election was held under unequal opportunities, as well as making extensive use of government and public facilities. Among those, one can refer to the following cases:
1. Making use of public media, both before and after the start of the official election campaign in favor of a particular candidate. In this connection, the participation and the collective work of a number of prominent and independent experts in a fact-finding team can reveal the extent to which the national media has been used in an unfair way for broadcasting propaganda in favor of one of the candidates.
2. In the same connection, one can refer to the use of government facilities and of government media, including Iran newspaper, Keyhan, Javan, etc; as well as other media that make use of government assistance and government facilities.
3. Making use of aircraft and other means of government transport in propaganda trips both during and before the official electoral campaign.
4. Mobilizing the forces [personnel] of various departments and education and training [schools and universities] for official missions, and sometimes paying them special bonuses for taking part in welcoming ceremonies for a particular candidate.
5. Inaugurating development projects at particular times for the sake of propaganda purposes, and making use of those opportunities for self-promotion.
6. Inaugurating unfinished projects as finished projects, such as the Shiraz-Isfahan or Kerman-Zahedan railway lines.
7. Paying the delayed salaries of government and education department employees and increasing the pension of retired people, and the distribution of Justice [Edalat] shares during the last months leading to the election.
8. Propaganda speeches by various ministers during the period of presidential campaign in favor of a particular candidate, including the speeches by roads minister, first deputy president, and the minister of justice, stressing their own posts [presumably their achievements].
9. Cutting telecommunication services, including the cutting of SMS services during the days of voting, which had been regarded as the most important means of communication among the observers that had been introduced to election headquarters. It is worth noting that before the election, the head of the election headquarters had said that due to the fact that Iran is a member of the International Telecommunication Union, under no circumstances would it be possible to cut telecommunication services, and that there would be no room for concern.

In view of all these cases, in addition to all the cases that have been referred to in previous letters, if the slightest attention is to be paid to the laws it would necessitate the annulment of the [results of] election throughout the country.

[Signed]
Mir Hossein Mousavi

[Atlanteax]

O_o @ #3, #4, and #5 ... that obviously would make it very easy for Amja's supporters to "fudge" the votes ... which results into a large-scale distortion when aggregated up.

[ElanthianSiren]

I had read something earlier (Chatham House - British) that alleged massive fraud in the last election too. Powder keg anyone?