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ClydeR
05-17-2009, 04:54 PM
From Obama's Notre Dame Speech..


In this world of competing claims about what is right and what is true, have confidence in the values with which you've been raised and educated. Be unafraid to speak your mind when those values are at stake. Hold firm to your faith and allow it to guide you on your journey. Stand as a lighthouse.

But remember too that the ultimate irony of faith is that it necessarily admits doubt. It is the belief in things not seen. It is beyond our capacity as human beings to know with certainty what God has planned for us or what He asks of us, and those of us who believe must trust that His wisdom is greater than our own.

This doubt should not push us away from our faith. But it should humble us. It should temper our passions, and cause us to be wary of self-righteousness. It should compel us to remain open, and curious, and eager to continue the moral and spiritual debate that began for so many of you within the walls of Notre Dame. And within our vast democracy, this doubt should remind us to persuade through reason, through an appeal whenever we can to universal rather than parochial principles, and most of all through an abiding example of good works, charity, kindness, and service that moves hearts and minds.

More (pdf)... (http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/05/17/obama.nd.remarks.pdf)

That first paragraph was good, but next paragraph was definitely wrong. Doubt is not welcomed in religion. We know we are right, and there is no room for doubt, no cause for humility, no need to temper passions. The Obama philosophy is dangerous.

Mabus
05-17-2009, 05:11 PM
I watched it on C-SPAN.

I thought the speech was well written, delivered well and received well.

Hulkein
05-17-2009, 06:41 PM
The president of Note Dame should be fired.

Jayvn
05-17-2009, 10:27 PM
no cause for humility.


I'm fairly certain christians believe you ARE supposed to humble yourself before god... I'm not sure what religion you are posing as though.

Proverbs 18:12 Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, But humility goes before honor.
Proverbs 11:2 When pride comes, then comes dishonor, But with the humble is wisdom.
Philippians 4:12 I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need.
Philippians 2:3 Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each of you regard one another as more important than himself
Matthew 18:4 "Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

Do I need to put up some more?

Jayvn
05-17-2009, 10:29 PM
It just occured to me that the ClydeRs of the world are the reason I no longer attend church...

Mabus
05-17-2009, 11:28 PM
It just occured to me that the ClydeRs of the world are the reason I no longer attend church...
People that pretend to be ultra right-wing conservatives on game forums are why you don't go to a building to commune over writings about a nonexistent being?

I can see that.
;)

Gan
05-17-2009, 11:39 PM
There really is no room for doubt, in religion, education, society, or government.

Daniel
05-18-2009, 03:36 AM
There really is no room for doubt, in religion, education, society, or government.

This is a joke right?