Growing Mexican Problem

[ClydeR]

As the President attends the Summit of the Americas, he should keep in mind the threats that the United States faces from our neighbors to the south, especially the Mexicans.


11% of all Mexicans live in the United States. That's not a typo. In 1970, it was 1.4%.


More than half (55%) of the Mexicans in this country are here illegally.


Mexicans are 59% of the illegal aliens in the United States.


32% of all foreign born people in the United States are Mexicans. That's higher than any other immigrant group.


Mexicans have lower levels of education, lower incomes, larger households and higher poverty rates than any other immigrant group.


Since 2000, Hispanics have accounted for more than half (50.5%) of the overall population growth in the United States.


Hispanics account for 40% of all people sentenced for federal crimes.

The above statistics are from the Pew Hispanic Center (http://pewhispanic.org/).

Looks like I'm going to have to lean to speak Mexican.

[ElvenFury]

Looks like I'm going to have to lean to speak Mexican.

Mexicano iso myo secondo languago. Io onlyo chargo youo fiftyo dollarso ano houro too teacho youo. You'reo welcomo.

[NocturnalRob]

I generally don't have problems growing Mexicans. It's fitting them all in the mini-van that presents the true problem.

[Bhuryn]

I have no problem with committing to cutting down on illegal immigration since it puts a enormous strain on a weak ecnomoy. That said I won't support any bill that doesn't include sending you to mexico with the rest of them ClydeR.

[ClydeR]

I have no problem with committing to cutting down on illegal immigration since it puts a enormous strain on a weak ecnomoy. That said I won't support any bill that doesn't include sending you to mexico with the rest of them ClydeR.

Although I know you're just teasing about me, I think you make a good point by breaking it down by them and us, because that's really the issue. We have to decide as a nation if we are going to retain our historical national character. You can't look at the statistics I posted and conclude that the current situation with Mexico is a good one.

[Back]

Although I know you're just teasing about me, I think you make a good point by breaking it down by them and us, because that's really the issue. We have to decide as a nation if we are going to retain our historical national character. You can't look at the statistics I posted and conclude that the current situation with Mexico is a good one.

Uh, technically, they were here first. We bought the western half of the US from them.

But this us vs. them mentality is what is really hurting us. Everyone needs to think in terms of us as a whole planet wide population.

Here you are complaining about perceived problems yet not even lifting a finger to suggest solutions.

[Bhuryn]

Although I know you're just teasing about me, I think you make a good point by breaking it down by them and us, because that's really the issue. We have to decide as a nation if we are going to retain our historical national character. You can't look at the statistics I posted and conclude that the current situation with Mexico is a good one.

The historical national character of this piece of land we call the USA includes teepees and tomahawks. I bet you're not Native American so you can stop now.

[Rocktar]

Uh, technically, they were here first. We bought the western half of the US from them.

But this us vs. them mentality is what is really hurting us. Everyone needs to think in terms of us as a whole planet wide population.

Here you are complaining about perceived problems yet not even lifting a finger to suggest solutions.

Beautiful mush headed Liberal/Socialist idea you got there. Did you borrow it from some talking head on a PITA or Greenpeace YouTube? I know you didn’t come up with that all by yourself.

Think of the whole world as "us" huh, all under a nice socialist dictatorship right? Just so all of "us" that don't work, won’t work and want a free ride can live off the hind tit of those of “us” that do work, will work and work damn hard to improve ourselves? Hummm, so you think that putting everyone in the same pot and stirring will make everyone as healthy, wealthy and free as Americans? Or is there some less noble idea in your vacuously empty skull? All that throwing more into the pot seeking equality of outcome does is to push the rest of “us” down. The only equality of outcome ever achieved is by finding the lowest common denominator. That means everyone in abject poverty, ignorance and squalor.

And as for who was here first, well, amoebas were here before any people, so we should bow down to them and let them have the land back? Or bacteria, they were here even earlier? How about Amino acids, what about them? What a tired and lame argument. It is just as mature and effective as “He started it.”

[droit]

I'd just like to point out the awesomeness of ClydeR's five red bubbles. Think the next one is going to be bright red?

[thefarmer]

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

http://www.ebayonne.com/shopping_cart/statue_of_liberty_photos/P0000650.JPG

edit: and because this came up randomly in my search..

http://www.nicaliving.com/files/images/p621.preview.jpg

[Rocktar]

http://www.ebayonne.com/shopping_cart/statue_of_liberty_photos/P0000650.JPG

Legal immigration is the bomb, I will take just about any that want to come here legally, learn English and try and fit in somewhat, illegals sneaking in, trying to subvert our society to make it their own sucks ass. If their society was so great and worked so well, why the hell are they trying to leave it and come here? Quit trying to make our country look like their old one. Fit in, come here legally so you can pay your share of the tax burden, learn and USE English.

[Tisket]

The entire fucking history of mankind is one of migration. Leaving where you are from in order to offer a better life for your kids is a constant throughout history. It's a pretty basic human impulse. And you know, where you're born is a fucking lottery. You were lucky. I was lucky. They were not. That's all it comes down to in the end. Luck.

Anyway, I kind of admire hard working, determined people, who take huge risks in order to improve their lives and the lives of their families. I find it honourable. I like to believe that I would do the same if I were in the same position. That I would have the spine and guts to risk my life to provide for my family. Takes some pretty big balls in my opinion.

[Tisket]

Fit in, come here legally so you can pay your share of the tax burden, learn and USE English.

Who the fuck cares if someone coming here speaks English? Their children will for crissake. And illegals DO pay taxes. I'll let you figure that one out.

[Clove]

I don't really have a problem growing Mexicans. All you need is a Home Depot and a few contractors with some day work and 4 or 5 Mexicans turn into 30 or 40 Mexicans in no-time...

[Clove]

Rocktar, you don't even use English. Why should you demand it of anyone else?

[Sean of the Thread]

roflmao

[Jorddyn]

And as for who was here first, well, amoebas were here before any people, so we should bow down to them and let them have the land back? Or bacteria, they were here even earlier? How about Amino acids, what about them? What a tired and lame argument. It is just as mature and effective as “He started it.”

Just... wow.

You're one of those people who compares gay marriage to bestiality, aren't you?

[holocene]

FFS.

There are people in this world who are different from you. Some of them live next door.

Get over it.

[Jorddyn]

Some of them live next door.


Great. Now I have to move.

[Clove]

And as for who was here first, well, amoebas were here before any people, so we should bow down to them and let them have the land back? Or bacteria, they were here even earlier? How about Amino acids, what about them? What a tired and lame argument. It is just as mature and effective as “He started it.”Are you having a problem with microscopic squatters on your property? Try to sound more retarded, I dare you. I double dog dare you.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'll up the ante.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_jtZM_i2fSV8/RbDzQm-Eu-I/AAAAAAAAASA/4AQtowcBJww/s400/triple+dog+dare.jpg

[Rocktar]

I dunno Clove, you don't use logic, sense or even thought, why should you demand it out of anyone else?

Actually Jorddyn, I like the idea of same sex marriage and posted such a while back, guess you weren’t paying attention when I actually agreed with a thread you liked. Bonehead. I also posted the fact that I am not Christian a while back too, so don't ascribe fundamentalist Christian ideals to me. Kay? Thanks.

And Tisket, having lived in areas with a large percentage of the population being illegals from Mexico and points farther south, I can say, you are wrong. The kids often barely learn English, their lazy criminal parents may know it, but don't use it and speak predominantly Spanish to them and others. In the end, they will yell about “preserving their cultural heritage” and other crap when asked about it. Well, my ancestors came here speaking Swiss, German, Gaelic and a host of other languages, you don’t see me going around demanding that the government publish documents in those languages so I can be an ass and cop a holier-than-thou attitude about my cultural heritage, do you? They need to grow the fuck up, get over the victim mentality people like you instill in them and learn to fit in.

And another thing, while illegals pay sales tax and some even manage to pay federal taxes to faked SS numbers and such, the largest majority work in the cash payment, day labor market or in the grey labor market where they DON’T pay income and other federal taxes. They do, however, suck at the hind tit of government for education, healthcare, welfare and a host of other entitlements. THIS is why I have always been for making a way to legalize the criminal bastards, get them into the tax rolls properly and then anyone that sneaks in illegally after that, give them a one way boot in the ass back home.

[Tisket]

I'm just a stupid, racist fuck who thinks there are already too many brown people living in the United States.

Fixed that for you.

[Rocktar]

...I was lucky I wasn't killed and eaten at birth for being such a Liberal whanker...

Anyway, I kind of admire hard working, determined people, they make it so my lazy Liberal/Socialist ass can sponge off the hind tit of governement like a good little comrade...

There, fixed it for you.

[Tisket]

So apparently anyone who disagrees with your racist ass is a socialist and on welfare? You are such a moron. It boggles the mind.

[Jorddyn]

There, fixed it for you.

You cry about people ascribing ideals that are not yours to you, and yet you insist on thinking anyone who disagrees with you is a dirty Liberal. While I fully admit to and relish the title, Tisket hardly falls within that realm.

[Tisket]

Holy shit, I missed that, he called me a LIBERAL. Fucking asshole.

[Rocktar]

Not crying, just pointing out your lack of paying any attention.

Tisket has yet to post anything to a thread replying to me to suggest otherwise.

But since I hurt your little feelers:

http://s-ec-sm.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/web02/2009/1/13/4/b584a55efb6f9788fb7e2fe629a63b09_4.jpg

[Jorddyn]

Holy shit, I missed that, he called me a LIBERAL. Fucking asshole.

Uh, AND a Socialist. Just sayin'.

[Clove]

I dunno Clove, you don't use logic, sense or even thought, why should you demand it out of anyone else?This criticism, coming from someone who holds amoeba equivalent to human beings (presumably because they both have DNA and exist on the same planet), means very little.

[Tisket]

lmao

[Jorddyn]

This criticism, coming from someone who holds amoeba equivalent to human beings (presumably because they both have DNA and exist on the same planet), means very little.

I always believed amoebas existed. Then Rocktar posted about them.

Now I'm questioning their very existance. They might really just be a figment of someone's imagination that worked their way around the world through email forwards and stories from a-guy-I-know.

[Rocktar]

ROFLMAO That is funny as shit, damn Clove, I thought you were useless, and then you go and prove me wrong. Thanks, now I am off to bed.

[ElvenFury]

This criticism, coming from someone who holds amoeba equivalent to human beings (presumably because they both have DNA and exist on the same planet), means very little.

Sure, they have DNA, but where the fuck did he pull amino acids from?

CARBON ATOMS WERE HERE FIRST, JACKASS!!

[Sean of the Thread]

Wow rocktard actually pulled a whaambalunce?

[g++]

Rocktar, you don't even use English. Why should you demand it of anyone else?

ROFL Roasted.

[g++]

Sure, they have DNA, but where the fuck did he pull amino acids from?

CARBON ATOMS WERE HERE FIRST, JACKASS!!

The real question is when are we going to give gravitational fields casinos?

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

The entire fucking history of mankind is one of migration. Leaving where you are from in order to offer a better life for your kids is a constant throughout history. It's a pretty basic human impulse. And you know, where you're born is a fucking lottery. You were lucky. I was lucky. They were not. That's all it comes down to in the end. Luck.

Anyway, I kind of admire hard working, determined people, who take huge risks in order to improve their lives and the lives of their families. I find it honourable. I like to believe that I would do the same if I were in the same position. That I would have the spine and guts to risk my life to provide for my family. Takes some pretty big balls in my opinion.

I agree with this.

I've worked with a lot of immigrants, legal (and some or many likely illegal), and some who were smuggled in illegally by their parents.

Overwhelmingly they've been hard-working, dependable, and honest. Rocktar's characterization of criminal and lazy just cracks me up. I think he should go spend a few days in a kitchen in NYC or any major city in the US for that matter, and see exactly how "lazy" they are.

Obviously I don't think we should simply open the border and throw money at immigrants. But I wholeheartedly agree with making more legal and accessible avenues for people who want to work, to work.

[TheRunt]

I agree with this.
Overwhelmingly they've been hard-working, dependable, and honest.


27% of the federal prison population in 2004-2005 was illegal immigrants.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf

And a estimated 30% of the state prison.

And a estimated 36+ percent are on welfare.

Oh and if their honest, why are they here illegally?

[Warriorbird]

Oh and if their honest, why are they here illegally?

I always thought the whole self improvement bit was a Republican concept.

The Mexican government is STILL hopelessly corrupt. You have to pay out tremendous bribes to even approach legal immigrant status.

Much like drugs there's also a demand for illegal Mexican labor.

Whereas liberals may never ever complain about illegal immigration for fear of being insensitive, some of the biggest employers in the country use and profit off of illegals. Walmart and ADM are two of the biggest (and Republican contributing) examples. Construction as an industry is chock full of illegal labor as well.

Mexico's a pretty messed up place. I'd try to get out by whatever means if I was Mexican.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

27% of the federal prison population in 2004-2005 was illegal immigrants.
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf

And a estimated 30% of the state prison.

And a estimated 36+ percent are on welfare.

Oh and if their honest, why are they here illegally?

Okay, we can pull out percentages for pretty much any demographic to show there are some bad people. I'm not going to get into it, but I don't take much stock in percentages like these. It's a section of the population, not the population on the whole nor the majority.

But I digress..

My personal experience is that the lazy, thieving illegal alien stereotype is at best a silly one to toss out there. Again, my personal experience was dependable, hard-working and trustworthy. As far as entering the country illegally meaning they can't be trusted, most people know I don't view all morality and ethics as black and white. The lack of better avenues to obtain legal citizenship bugs me way more than people escaping horrible lives to try to build a new one.

[Shari]

Its complicated. I have no answer for it but I will offer this:

I know a lot of really fantastic Mexicans that are here illegally. They bust ass and don't complain and are generally good people.

But on the other side of the coin I see something on my local news station every day talking about robbery, drunk driving involving manslaughter, rape, assault, etc involving illegal immigrants.

Maybe it SEEMS more the bad then the good because I mean, come ON, we are dealing with the media...I'm sure crazy shit like that goes down every day as well with citizens of this country, but at least we can track them, and lock them up (or whatever punishment is deemed necessary) aside from just packing them up and deporting them from wherever they came from only so they can sneak back and do it again.

It sucks, that's for sure. And like I said, I have no solution. Perhaps make it easier (and cheaper?) to become a citizen. I've heard from a few people it costs a fucking fortune to get in here. And the wait is insane. It makes me frustrated when people here illegally are screaming for grandfathered citizenship if you've been here for 10 years or more when there are people struggling and waiting to do it the right way and getting blown off.

[Back]

Beautiful mush headed Liberal/Socialist idea you got there. Did you borrow it from some talking head on a PITA or Greenpeace YouTube? I know you didn’t come up with that all by yourself.

Heh. I just now saw your post.

In answer to your query... no. I kinda got it from watching Star Trek.


Think of the whole world as "us" huh, all under a nice socialist dictatorship right? Just so all of "us" that don't work, won’t work and want a free ride can live off the hind tit of those of “us” that do work, will work and work damn hard to improve ourselves? Hummm, so you think that putting everyone in the same pot and stirring will make everyone as healthy, wealthy and free as Americans? Or is there some less noble idea in your vacuously empty skull? All that throwing more into the pot seeking equality of outcome does is to push the rest of “us” down. The only equality of outcome ever achieved is by finding the lowest common denominator. That means everyone in abject poverty, ignorance and squalor.

Vacuously empty? Thats redundant.

I just have more optimism than you it seems. Optimism is a bangwagon everyone should be on. If someone isn’t all I can say is eat my dust.


And as for who was here first, well, amoebas were here before any people, so we should bow down to them and let them have the land back? Or bacteria, they were here even earlier? How about Amino acids, what about them? What a tired and lame argument. It is just as mature and effective as “He started it.”

Do you think amoeba and bacteria argue with themselves about how some of them aren’t towing the line and how that is going to run them into extinction?

[radamanthys]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pgz6ZCqhtg

[Warriorbird]

Oh yeah... organizations backed by eugenics supporters for the win...

I'd take a closer look at John Tanton and 'NumbersUSA' before taking anything at face value.

http://www.splcenter.org/pdf/static/splc_nativistlobby_022009.pdf

[radamanthys]

Who cares? Watch the video and take it at face value. There are no pro-eugenics arguments in there. They just happened to have posted a 5-min version of the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ&feature=related

This doesn't have the offending name associated. That should be better.

[Miscast]

Look, without Mexicans we wouldn't have tequila. Japanese chicks love tequila!

[Warriorbird]

It doesn't remove it from where it comes from, (a guy who's been a long term employee of and is best buds with a eugenics supporter) or make it anything other than nativist agitprop, Rad. Mexico actually has a pretty low birth rate. When you bring in a whole slew of other countries that don't typically send us much in the way of immigration it tends to skew his analogy quite a lot. It doesn't account for aids, famine, and high third world death rates either.

We're not facing an overwhelming horde of East Indian, Chinese, or Brazilian immigrants.

Consider taking a look at that article.

[Back]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pgz6ZCqhtg

I agree that poverty in any country must be addressed by that country. Including our own.

[radamanthys]

Taking in the impoverished doesn't really help solve our poverty problem, does it?

[Warriorbird]

Nativism has been constant throughout American history. Each group of immigrants, once assimilated, has bitched about the previous group.

I rather like our country.

[Back]

Taking in the impoverished doesn't really help solve our poverty problem, does it?

That depends on if we solve our poverty problem. I think we should. And I think we should encourage more hard working people into our county.

The text is from "The New Colossus," a poem by Emma Lazarus:

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

[thefarmer]

That depends on if we solve our poverty problem. I think we should. And I think we should encourage more hard working people into our county.

The text is from "The New Colossus," a poem by Emma Lazarus:

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"


Way to re-post that like 45 posts after I did.

[Warriorbird]

Ha ha.

[Back]

Way to re-post that like 45 posts after I did.

Sorry man, I don’t read every post.

[thefarmer]

Sorry man, I'm a dumbass every post.

Yes, we know.

[TheRunt]

The wait can be quite long, it is heavily weighted towards skilled workers in areas of need. And don't quote me but most of the expense is legal fees trying to fight it if your denied and citizenship classes and such to learn what is necessary to pass the tests. The actual fee is a max of $10 per the constitution article 1 sec 9.

I have a couple of solutions but I'd get flamed for most of them ;)
But the hell with it, it's only rep right?

Lock down the border as best we can. Mobilize the National guard, arm them, and turn back any illegals that are willing to retreat, if they don't retreat and run towards the U.S. authorize any force necessary to stop them. Hell we could even use the U.S. military, its not a violation of posse comitatus to defend the countries borders. Even use the civilian militia to guard it. There is one rancher in AZ who has stopped and held something like 10,000 illegals for the border patrol to pick up in 10 years. Use available technology to spot them before they get to the border, we have the ability to do wide area scans and spot them a mile or more before they get their and to mobilize units to the vicinity. Use seismographs and deep penetrating sonar to find the tunnels in existence and being build and destroy them. And figure out the best way to lock down the border with the minimum amount of manpower necessary.

Actively go after the illegals and the people that hire them.
Fine any business or person that hires a illegal, and or imprison them, and when I say fine not a slap on the wrist I mean a heavy fine, perhaps 1mo or 1 quarter earnings.

Give the illegals 60-90 days to immigrate back to their country of origin, even provide transportation(within reason, no semi-loads of goods, perhaps 2-3 suitcases per person) with no penalties, after that if they are caught illegally in the country, automatic ban of any legal immigration for them and seizure of all assets to pay for enforcement. If they have children that are citizens (anchor babies) they can either let a legal citizen adopt them, or take them back with them and they can then immigrate to this country when they are of age. Perhaps even amend the Constitution to disallow them citizenship.

After we have the border and the illegal population in hand, then we could allow some relaxation of immigration quotas.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Look, without Mexicans we wouldn't have tequila. Japanese chicks love tequila!

False, Tequila is a fancy Spanish wine.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Actively go after the illegals and the people that hire them.
Fine any business or person that hires a illegal, and or imprison them, and when I say fine not a slap on the wrist I mean a heavy fine, perhaps 1mo or 1 quarter earnings.


Heh, were this idea implemented it would probably shut down the entire restaurant industry, especially in major cities.

[Rocktar]

Sorry man, I don’t read.

Fixed that for ya.

[Tisket]

The truth is that no one is ever going to seriously push or support a measure to stop illegal immigration. Because (a) illegal immigrants are too important to the nation's economy and (b) Hispanic voters are too important a bloc to alienate and many of them feel empathy towards those who take the risks to enter the U.S. and work.

I read an article once about how, despite measures in the past, illegal immigration continues to rise. Part of it is that where before someone might come in, work a few months and return home, now he's afraid he won't be able to get back in a second time and resides in the US full time rather than risk it. I thought that had an amusing irony.

It's also amusing to remember that in the past the "unsavory" immigrants coming from southern and eastern europe (Slavs, Italians, etc.) and Asians were all represented as dirty, unskilled criminals who threatened the sanctity of American culture and law. Xenophobia is hardly new.

I understand that preserving the racial status quo is important to people like rocktard but really, it's bullshit to think someone has to be white and christian to help the nation develop.

Anyway, for the record, I'm for tougher enforcement of immigration policies. I just think it's pollyanna to think that there's going to be a massive change in one direction or the other. The economic and political realities just won't allow it. I also believe that the quickest way to assimilate the current immigrant population is to provide a means for them to normalize their status and stop creating an "us against them" conflict. I support visas for established illegal immigrants after paying a fine and submitting to a background check.

And by the way, it's ok if you hate Mexicans Rocktar. It actually gives you some much needed diversity from just hating blacks and gays.

[Tea & Strumpets]

The truth is that no one is ever going to seriously push or support a measure to stop illegal immigration. Because (a) illegal immigrants are too important to the nation's economy and (b) Hispanic voters are too important a bloc to alienate and many of them feel empathy towards those who take the risks to enter the U.S. and work.

I read an article once about how, despite measures in the past, illegal immigration continues to rise. Part of it is that where before someone might come in, work a few months and return home, now he's afraid he won't be able to get back in a second time and resides in the US full time rather than risk it. I thought that had an amusing irony.

It's also amusing to remember that in the past the "unsavory" immigrants coming from southern and eastern europe (Slavs, Italians, etc.) and Asians were all represented as dirty, unskilled criminals who threatened the sanctity of American culture and law. Xenophobia is hardly new.

I understand that preserving the racial status quo is important to people like rocktard but really, it's bullshit to think someone has to be white and christian to help the nation develop.

Anyway, for the record, I'm for tougher enforcement of immigration policies. I just think it's pollyanna to think that there's going to be a massive change in one direction or the other. The economic and political realities just won't allow it. I also believe that the quickest way to assimilate the current immigrant population is to provide a means for them to normalize their status and stop creating an "us against them" conflict. I support visas for established illegal immigrants after paying a fine and submitting to a background check.

And by the way, it's ok if you hate Mexicans Rocktar. It actually gives you some much needed diversity from just hating blacks and gays.

What you don't know is...ClydeR isn't a real person!!! If you don't reply within the next 5 minutes I will know it is because I blew your mind and your head literally exploded.

[thefarmer]

... and Asians were all represented as dirty, unskilled criminals who threatened the sanctity of American culture and law.

Triad represent!

http://www.yellowkidcomics.com/board/triad/signs2.jpg

[Tisket]

lol I would totally marry T&S if I could. I'll have to remain satisfied with e-stalking her.

[Stanley Burrell]

To truly grow a Mexican, one must plant a sombrero, jumping beans, maracas and some peyote in the sandy Earth.

[Tisket]

What you don't know is...ClydeR isn't a real person!!! If you don't reply within the next 5 minutes I will know it is because I blew your mind and your head literally exploded.

In my defense, I wasn't addressing ClydeR at all. My comments were toward the Runt and Rocktard.

[Tea & Strumpets]

lol I would totally marry T&S if I could. I'll have to remain satisfied with e-stalking her.

HER!!! I am so fucking pissed right now.

[Tisket]

I blame the "Strumpets" part of your handle for any gender confusion!

[Stanley Burrell]

One can be a man strumpet.

[Tisket]

I'm grasping at straws here dude. My e-crush is mad at me!

[Tea & Strumpets]

I blame the "Strumpets" part of your handle for any gender confusion!

Everyone knows that my name is from the movie Dumb and Dumber when he says "She'll probably invite us in for tea & strumpets" or something like that when he's talking about that girl he stalks to Colorado. People bring it up all the time in every day conversation. Get with the program.

[Tisket]

Every time you insult me, another 100 illegals enter the country and steal jobs.

[Bhuryn]

Everyone knows that my name is from the movie Dumb and Dumber when he says "She'll probably invite us in for tea & strumpets" or something like that when he's talking about that girl he stalks to Colorado. People bring it up all the time in every day conversation. Get with the program.

That "program" was 15 years ago. Why would you expect a normal person to remember something so inane?

[Tisket]

I'm not a "normal" person! I'm exceptional. Higher standards should apply.

:P

[thefarmer]

I'm not a "normal" person! I'm exceptional. Higher standards should apply.

:P

So in GS event terms you're just 'decent'?

[Tisket]

Boom, another 100 illegals stealing jobs! All your fault.

[Bhuryn]

I'm not a "normal" person! I'm exceptional. Higher standards should apply.

:P

Well, given the your title I expected any additional intellectual coefficients would be null and void.

[Tisket]

Have I just been insulted? If so then YOU are responsible for the growing illegal immigration problem too.

[Bhuryn]

Have I just been insulted? If so then YOU are responsible for the growing illegal immigration problem too.

Good, maybe one of them will buy my house so he can live next to the rest of his family that took over my neighborhood.

[thefarmer]

Good, maybe 50 of them will buy my house so he can live next to the rest of his family that took over my neighborhood.

Fixed

[Bhuryn]

Fixed

Nice catch. I can't even get out of my damn driveway sometimes. So many piece of shit cars!

[Tisket]

Nice catch. I can't even get out of my damn driveway sometimes. So many piece of shit cars!

Somehow I doubt that your neighborhood used to be a paradise with expensive housing that was invaded in Mad Max fashion by crazed illegals, who burned down all the mansions and set up taco stands..

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Every time you insult me, another 100 illegals enter the country and steal jobs.

I know you are kidding, but seriously... who wants those jobs anyway?! Yard work, day labor, maid, waiter...

I'm glad they are taking the jobs, personally. If I lose a job because someone more qualified than I takes it... who's fault is that? Oh, but they do it at a cut rate and destroy the economy you say? How so? People need to stop feeling entitled. I'm for legal immigration, but any arguements that they are taking jobs is bullshit. They are taking resources normally reserved for tax payers, I'll give you that, but the job thing is A-OK in my book.

[Sean of the Thread]

Actually the mexicants did an excellent job here at this ghetto apartment today. It may have taken them 5 or so hours to get the huge pile of oak leaves up... but at a dollar an hour I salute them.

Seriously it was blowers all fucking morning this place is a hell hole.

[Tisket]

I know you are kidding, but seriously... who wants those jobs anyway?! Yard work, day labor, maid, waiter...

I agree. There are places hiring illegal immigrants because they can't find people to do the work. Remember the chicken plant bust a couple years ago?

Federal immigration agents raided and took away almost the entire illegal hispanic workforce. After they took the illegals away the plant hired a bunch of blacks to do the work for more money than they were paying the immigrant workforce.

Many of them quit due to the working and living conditions in the factory and dorms. Then the plant hired convicts and the homeless to do the work. They quit. According to the article, they were last hiring Asian immigrants living in Wisconsin to move down and do the work.

link: http://news.georgiasouthern.edu/InTheNews/Jan07/Pittsburgh-immigration.htm

[Warriorbird]

Actually the mexicants did an excellent job here at this ghetto apartment today. It may have taken them 5 or so hours to get the huge pile of oak leaves up... but at a dollar an hour I salute them.

Seriously it was blowers all fucking morning this place is a hell hole.

Some places they get up to 15 an hour. Kinda crazy, no?

[Bhuryn]

Somehow I doubt that your neighborhood used to be a paradise with expensive housing that was invaded in Mad Max fashion by crazed illegals, who burned down all the mansions and set up orange stands..

They sell tacos not oranges.

[Tisket]

They sell tacos not oranges.

edited just for you.

[Parkbandit]

I know you are kidding, but seriously... who wants those jobs anyway?! Yard work, day labor, maid, waiter...

I'm glad they are taking the jobs, personally. If I lose a job because someone more qualified than I takes it... who's fault is that? Oh, but they do it at a cut rate and destroy the economy you say? How so? People need to stop feeling entitled. I'm for legal immigration, but any arguements that they are taking jobs is bullshit. They are taking resources normally reserved for tax payers, I'll give you that, but the job thing is A-OK in my book.

I know plenty of people that wouldn't mind those jobs.

And personally.. anyone who takes a government handout should be forced to taking those jobs instead of sitting around their house just collecting.

[Warriorbird]

I agree. The irony is that many of the employers would rather have the illegal.

[Parkbandit]

I agree. The irony is that many of the employers would rather have the illegal.

Then THAT is when our government should step the fuck up and enforce our laws. Make it illegal for people/companies to hire illegal aliens in the first place. Hire one? Great.. pay a huge fine. Hire another one and lose your business license.

Every single employer should be forced to use the E-Verify program that our government put together. It's a 10 second check to make sure the individual you are hiring is actually legal to work in the US.

[thefarmer]

Then THAT is when our government should step the fuck up and enforce our laws. Make it illegal for people/companies to hire illegal aliens in the first place. Hire one? Great.. pay a huge fine. Hire another one and lose your business license.

Every single employer should be forced to use the E-Verify program that our government put together. It's a 10 second check to make sure the individual you are hiring is actually legal to work in the US.

Wal-Mart would need a bailout then..

[Warriorbird]

and ADM.

[Parkbandit]

Wal-Mart would need a bailout then..

I know Hilton sure would have about 4 years ago. They rolled that program out, all ready with start dates, training and orientation.. then a memo came out "STOP THE PROGRAM!!!!!11111oneone"

I guess some big box hotels out in California would have pretty much had no housekeeping or maintenance if it went through.

[Jorddyn]

I agree. There are places hiring illegal immigrants because they can't find people to do the work. Remember the chicken plant bust a couple years ago?

Federal immigration agents raided and took away almost the entire illegal hispanic workforce. After they took the illegals away the plant hired a bunch of blacks to do the work for more money than they were paying the immigrant workforce.

Many of them quit due to the working and living conditions in the factory and dorms. Then the plant hired convicts and the homeless to do the work. They quit. According to the article, they were last hiring Asian immigrants living in Wisconsin to move down and do the work.

link: http://news.georgiasouthern.edu/InTheNews/Jan07/Pittsburgh-immigration.htm

And don't you feel safer now?

[Rocktar]

First, Walmart would not need a bailout; they at least make a semblance of trying to get legals or the ones that can get decently faked papers, anyway.

Second, Americans used to DO all those jobs. Migrant farm work, cleaning, hauling, waste removal and so on. It is only in the last 30-40 years that we have raised a lazy, wasteful, arrogant and did I mention lazy generation of people that think they are too good for this job or that. And to top it all off, with government handouts and parents from the 60s that let the fuckers sit around the house until they 40, there isn't really a penalty for being a lazy, snobbish bastard and we have loads of them mooching and with poor work ethics. I would make a comment about Jorddyn’s posting from work but I am trying to rise above that 2nd grade mentality.

[SHAFT]

california wouldnt survive without mexicans. my business wouldn't survive without mexicans. they take the jobs that the lazy whites don't want, or think they're too good for. if i were hiring for manual labor i'd take a mexican over a white all day every day.

its not just mexicans, its southern america in general. my housekeepers are from venezuela. they do a great job and don't charge an arm and a leg.

[SHAFT]

Second, Americans used to DO all those jobs. Migrant farm work, cleaning, hauling, waste removal and so on. It is only in the last 30-40 years that we have raised a lazy, wasteful, arrogant and did I mention lazy generation of people that think they are too good for this job or that. And to top it all off, with government handouts and parents from the 60s that let the fuckers sit around the house until they 40, there isn't really a penalty for being a lazy, snobbish bastard and we have loads of them mooching and with poor work ethics

Amen

[SolitareConfinement]

best drywall installers/finishers i've ever seen were mexicans and not just the same crew but a multitude of mexicans that drywall with a pimp fashion...just don't piss em off they will piss in the walls :( and lemme tell you something i've trimmed out a house before with mexican piss stench in the walls its not pleasant. but DAMN did those seems and corners look awesome

[Valthissa]

I know you are kidding, but seriously... who wants those jobs anyway?! Yard work, day labor, maid, waiter...

I'm glad they are taking the jobs, personally. If I lose a job because someone more qualified than I takes it... who's fault is that? Oh, but they do it at a cut rate and destroy the economy you say? How so? People need to stop feeling entitled. I'm for legal immigration, but any arguements that they are taking jobs is bullshit. They are taking resources normally reserved for tax payers, I'll give you that, but the job thing is A-OK in my book.

For anyone interested in the economics of illegal immigration, I recommend reading George Borjas. I don't know of any academic that seriously disputes his methods or data.

There are many academics that dispute the conclusions he reaches, but that's what you get in social science debates.

I have the cynical view that policy makers (both parties) are uninterested in any serious discussion of the social or economic issues relating to illegal immigration. They see immigration issues through the prism of how it might affect elections.

C/Valth

[AnticorRifling]

I have no problem with anyone being here, wanting to better their situation, and working their asses off. I have a problem with not paying taxes and taking advatange of systems without putting into them. At the very least make anyone that works, regardless of legal status, put into the system so things like free medical care aren't uber raped.

[Parkbandit]

I have no problem with anyone being here, wanting to better their situation, and working their asses off. I have a problem with not paying taxes and taking advatange of systems without putting into them. At the very least make anyone that works, regardless of legal status, put into the system so things like free medical care aren't uber raped.

So.. you would support open borders and unlimited immigration as long as everyone who wants to come to this country is registered like you and I, so they can pay into the systems we have in place?

[AnticorRifling]

So.. you would support open borders and unlimited immigration as long as everyone who wants to come to this country is registered like you and I, so they can pay into the systems we have in place?

Yes I would read into what I said and dumb it down to something as black and white as that...

[Parkbandit]

Yes I would read into what I said and dumb it down to something as black and white as that...


It was merely a question.. which is why I put a "?" at the end of it. Questions aren't used to dumb things down, they are, in some cases, asking for clarification.

Which was my only motivation. Way to take it the wrong way, AHOLE.

[Jorddyn]

It was merely a question.. which is why I put a "?" at the end of it. Questions aren't used to dumb things down, they are, in some cases, asking for clarification.


So, you're saying you are being difficult, adversarial, and just a wee bit obnoxious as per usual?

[Keller]

So.. you would support open borders and unlimited immigration as long as everyone who wants to come to this country is registered like you and I, so they can pay into the systems we have in place?

You can have your cake and eat it, too.

An analagous situation is the IRS and income from criminal activities. The IRS taxes ALL accretions to wealth, legal or not. They are also VERY clear that they will not turn you over to the relevant authorities for reporting illegal income.

Why can't we have a system in which illegal immigrants can apply for and receive an identification number for paying taxes? Maybe impose a two-tiered system for illegal immigrants who are identified taxpayers and those who are not. I don't know what the difference in deportation protocol would be, but it would need to be distinguishable enough to provoke illegals to apply for the taxpayer ID.

[Trouble]

Why can't we have a system in which illegal immigrants can apply for and receive an identification number for paying taxes? Maybe impose a two-tiered system for illegal immigrants who are identified taxpayers and those who are not. I don't know what the difference in deportation protocol would be, but it would need to be distinguishable enough to provoke illegals to apply for the taxpayer ID.

I agree with this type of scenario. Until we get off our lazy asses and do the jobs the illegals would kill for, we should make it as easy as possible for them to be as legal as possible while they are here. I've said before in other threads I don't have much of a problem with illegal immigrant workers as long as they're paying taxes (even if it's on someone else's SSN) and not commiting (non-immigration related) crimes. My main issue with them is the drain on social services which are already being strained by our fully legal yet lazy population.

Once all US Citizens decide they want to actually work for their benefits, we can decide how to escort the illegals out. But I doubt we'll ever get to that point (see Rocktar's post).

[Tisket]

or the ones that can get decently faked papers, anyway.

Which kind of blows your whole theory that they are not paying taxes since anyone working with faked papers pay all the same taxes, FICA, fed witholding, etc. that a regular U.S. citizen pays but without any hope of seeing a return.

Anyway, I am against open borders but it shouldn't take someone 5 to 20 years to get a green card. And we have to find a way to absorb the illegals already within our borders. Criminalizing them further wil hurt everyone. Think the economy is teetering now? Ban the Messicans and you'll need to buy a wheelbarrow to carry all the money you'll need to pay for your all-american lifestyle.

[Parkbandit]

So, you're saying you are being difficult, adversarial, and just a wee bit obnoxious as per usual?

Not at all since I know a few people who say they are for unrestricted legal immigration as long as the immigrants are registered and pay into the systems that this country has in place.

[AnticorRifling]

I don't think it should be unrestricted but it should be faster than the current process. I'd love for it to require some sort of military/public service but that won't happen.

[Parkbandit]

I don't think it should be unrestricted but it should be faster than the current process. I'd love for it to require some sort of military/public service but that won't happen.

Apology accepted. To make everything better, you should send Falgrin like 1000g and all will be forgiven.

[Sean of the Thread]

I have no problem with anyone being here, wanting to better their situation, and working their asses off. I have a problem with not paying taxes and taking advatange of systems without putting into them. At the very least make anyone that works, regardless of legal status, put into the system so things like free medical care aren't uber raped.

Try going to the emergency room here in little mexico Clearwater FL.

Bring some word puzzles or be bleeding to death.

[Jorddyn]

Try going to the emergency room here in little mexico Clearwater FL.

Bring some word puzzles or be bleeding to death.

The first time I read this, I thought you meant he'd have to have it to bribe someone to not hurt him. And the thought of a gang of thugs sitting around doing Soduko and Crosswords really makes me chuckle.

[Rocktar]

I have the cynical view that policy makers (both parties) are uninterested in any serious discussion of the social or economic issues relating to anything. They see all issues through the prism of how it might affect elections.

C/Valth

There, fixed that for you. :)

[Clove]

Now fix your duplicate posting.

[Rocktar]

Now that was whacked.

That make you more comfortable clove? Sorry to offend your delicate sensabilities with some kind of computer glitch that I didn't intentional cause or pretty much give a fuck about.

[Mabus]

Now that was whacked.

That make you more comfortable clove? Sorry to offend your delicate sensabilities with some kind of computer glitch that I didn't intentional cause or pretty much give a fuck about.
I have had it happen to me twice on these forums.

Odd little bug.

[Clove]

Now that was whacked.

That make you more comfortable clove? Sorry to offend your delicate sensabilities with some kind of computer glitch that I didn't intentional cause or pretty much give a fuck about.Considering how careless you are about punctuation, capitalization, grammar and simple reasoning I am more inclined to believe that this was more of the same than a simple bug. You have established a trend of foolishness.

[Rocktar]

Considering how careless you are about punctuation, capitalization, grammar and simple reasoning I am more inclined to believe that this was more of the same than a simple bug. You have established a trend of foolishness.

Actually, my punctuation is accurate, as is my grammar in most all cases. It is a little antiquated, as it is a reasonable facsimile of proper English usage and not the gutter vomit that you and others hack out, but proper none the less. You can believe what you wish, but you clearly have a track record of being a clueless, petty and petulant little twatwaffle who has nothing better to do than get pissy at things like double posts and so on. So, do me, yourself and everyone else a favor and just shut the fuck up. Now, just for you, because your little EMO feelers got bent and you got sand in your vagina, I will send you some help:

http://s-ec-sm.buzzfeed.com/static/imagebuzz/web02/2009/1/13/4/b584a55efb6f9788fb7e2fe629a63b09_4.jpg


And now, just because I am in a generous mood as my vacation time off got approved, here is a something just for you:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_g2G9XZSAzPY/Re5zJf-HhgI/AAAAAAAAAko/UfmYbVHvUWk/s400/Godu2.jpg

[Keller]

Actually, my punctuation is accurate, as is my grammar in most all cases.

Quoted for posterity.

[Keller]

I can't wait till Nien sees that reply.

Proper english . . . :rofl:

[Tisket]

Actually, my punctuation is accurate, as is my grammar in most all cases.

Except for the times where that is never true. Ever.

[Clove]

Actually, my punctuation is accurate, as is my grammar in most all cases. Blah, blah, blah...How wonderfully vitriolic. We never get that around here. I'm just glad you didn't call me "childish".

Actually (were it correct) you'd have a point had I not included your carelessness in capitalization and reasoning in the trend of foolishness you've established for yourself. You also make factually incorrect statements and display ignorance of topics you comment on. I'd say you have a lot of perfect grammar to pump out before you reverse your reputation for careless, foolish posts around here.

[Rocktar]

And you will never be able to dodge your reputation for emptyheadedness.

[Warriorbird]

I may find Clove dickish at times but I've never found him stupid. The occasional flicker of willful obtuseness in him is nothing like you. You make it your constant modus operandi.