Asians Should Americanize Their Names

[ClydeR]

When Asians come to this country -- legally, we hope -- they should Americanize their names, not just transliterate them. A name transliterated from Chinese isn't a real name at all. In Texas there's an effort to get the fake names off the voter rolls to be sure that only legally registered people vote.

When Rep. Betty Brown, a member of the Texas Legislature with a very American name, made that suggestion, the liberal Asian lobby went into an uncontrolled rage.


Ko told the committee that people of Chinese, Japanese and Korean descent often have problems voting and other forms of identification because they may have a legal transliterated name and then a common English name that is used on their driver’s license on school registrations.

Easier for voting?

Brown suggested that Asian-Americans should find a way to make their names more accessible.

“Rather than everyone here having to learn Chinese — I understand it’s a rather difficult language — do you think that it would behoove you and your citizens to adopt a name that we could deal with more readily here?” Brown said.

Brown later told Ko: “Can’t you see that this is something that would make it a lot easier for you and the people who are poll workers if you could adopt a name just for identification purposes that’s easier for Americans to deal with?”

Democratic Chairman Boyd Richie said Republicans are trying to suppress votes with a partisan identification bill and said Brown “is adding insult to injury with her disrespectful comments.”

Brown spokesman Jordan Berry said Brown was not making a racially motivated comment but was trying to resolve an identification problem.

More... (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6365320.html)

[Drew]

Is saying people should anglicize there names really so outrageous? My last name isn't the same it was in Ireland because it was anglicized, people have been doing just that for over 200 years now. I know Clyde R is trying to troll here and I don't know what this article is really dealing with (DNRTFM) but I don't think saying "it's a good idea to anglicize your name" is a terribly controversial statement.

[radamanthys]

Agreed, I know plenty of students at Binghamton (20% asian) who have done something like this.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Why? I can see the that we only want legalized citizens voting, but who cares what name they use so long as it's THEIR legal name. "Americanized" names are stupid anyway. I knew a kid in HS whos legal "American" name was Tice Tice.

Are names like Shaniqua, Vinh, Ahmed, Ashuk, Bill, Betty or Angela any different? I think not.

[radamanthys]

Not at all, a name is silly no matter how you slice it. But using multiple names is kinda silly, too.

[Sean]

Not at all, a name is silly no matter how you slice it. But using multiple names is kinda silly, too.

It's also silly to change your name just because someone else refuses to learn how to pronounce it.

[ElvenFury]

I think I'm going to start Pos repping Clyde whenever he succeeds in baiting people into posting serious replies.

[radamanthys]

It's also silly to change your name just because someone else refuses to learn how to pronounce it.

My name is now xyzzy. Learn to pronounce it. Vowelless.

Yea, so the entirety of America needs to learn an entirely new linguistic schema with tonal language skills that they do not possess?

Regardless- American expatriates in China are expected to do the same thing.

[Allereli]

Not at all, a name is silly no matter how you slice it. But using multiple names is kinda silly, too.

I wish I had a Chinese name, most of my cousins on my mom's side do. I probably wouldn't use it, but names are tied to identity and culture.

[Sean]

My name is now xyzzy. Learn to pronounce it. Vowelless.

Yea, so the entirety of America needs to learn an entirely new linguistic schema with tonal language skills that they do not possess?

Regardless- American expatriates in China are expected to do the same thing.

If you tell me how to pronounce it I will do my hardest to learn how to properly say it.

[Mtenda]

:wtf2:

I just threw up in mouth a little.

[Kuyuk]

<<My name is now xyzzy. Learn to pronounce it. Vowelless.>>

So, anyone that doesnt have an american name, needs a new name?

Or only Asian cultures?

What about Russian, Polish, French, or any other culture that have letters that are not in our language, should they change their names?

K.

[Allereli]

Or only Asian cultures?

What about Russian, Polish, French, or any other culture that have letters that are not in our language, should they change their names?

K.

Those people are white and are thus okay no matter what their names are

[Kuyuk]

oic

[DCSL]

My name is now xyzzy. Learn to pronounce it. Vowelless.


HA! Hoist on your own petard! Vowels are A, E, I, O, U, and sometimes Y. I would pronounce your new name as "zeezee". Or perhaps "zihzee".

I am, of course, totally kidding.

[Latrinsorm]

<<Yea, so the entirety of America needs to learn an entirely new linguistic schema with tonal language skills that they do not possess?>>

I've never come across an "Asian" name I couldn't pronounce when told it. The anglicization scheme of writing has some odd quirks, but no more odd than Sean magically having a "sh" sound. That shit threw me for weeks when I was in kindergarten. As far as white people with weird names go, ask Wally Szczerbiak how close to the homeland pronunciation "ZER-bee-ak" is. My guess is not very.

The "how the heck you say that gol durn name?" would really have a lot more pop to it if we were talking about African names. It would still border on xenophobia, but at least they're legitimately difficult to say.

[DCSL]

Yeah, "Sean" messed me up a lot when I was little too. I kept pronouncing it as seein' basically. Like, seein' is believin'. I think I got in one of my first fights at six over this.

[Latrinsorm]

I figured bean, mean, lean, clean; Sean must sound like scene!

http://oihayaku.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/lex-luthor-wrong.jpg

[Celephais]

I figured bean, mean, lean, clean; Sean must sound like scene!

http://oihayaku.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/lex-luthor-wrong.jpg
Same here...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c0/Alec_Trevelyan_by_Sean_Bean.jpg

[Sean]

<<Yea, so the entirety of America needs to learn an entirely new linguistic schema with tonal language skills that they do not possess?>>

I've never come across an "Asian" name I couldn't pronounce when told it. The anglicization scheme of writing has some odd quirks, but no more odd than Sean magically having a "sh" sound. That shit threw me for weeks when I was in kindergarten.

I guess I better change my name :( My mom will be very disappointed. Seriously though, I'd much rather take the time to learn someones real name than call them Sunny or Daisy.

[radamanthys]

I'm not advocating a mandated governmental intervention a la Ellis Island to Americanize foreigners. That would be wrong. A person should have the choice to do what they want. If you, like prince, want to change your name to an unpronounceable symbol, go right ahead. But. don't expect me to take you seriously.

If you don't learn english and have an unpronounceable name, I will treat you as a foreigner. "I" meaning "John Q Public". You can't change people en masse. Just not possible, no matter how much y'all try and inspire guilt.

I just think it's a person's responsibility to attempt to fit into a culture that they're trying to fit into. Either that, or not whine about their lack of acceptance. I don't walk into a church with a "Hail Satan" shirt on. At least not if I wanted people to treat me like I belonged- like a citizen resident.

And if I went to China, I'd be 'the white guy'. All my friends who go over there have been given Chinese names- not for shits and giggles, but for the sake of their new friends and residents of the country that they're a guest in.

So, espouse all the 'white guilt' you want. John Q. Public doesn't give a flying fuck.

[Mtenda]

If you don't learn english and have an unpronounceable name, I will treat you as a foreigner.

And how do you do this?

[Drew]

If you people moved to another country would you not change your name? My sister changed hers in Korea to something easier for them to say. Why? Because it's fucking considerate. Fucking.

[Rolton-Sammich]

I think I'm going to start Pos repping Clyde whenever he succeeds in baiting people into posting serious replies.
To me, there's a difference between this -- where the opinion is actually publicly advocated by apparently real people -- and a true Clyde bait -- like "my church talked about boycotting Elijah Wood," that's just fuckin' goofy.

In this case, it seems legitimate to respond because, even though Clyde is an imaginary troll, there is an actual person, in the real world, making actual news that one can react to.

It's the other cases, where Clyde just makes shit up, that call for any pos rep for trolling.

[radamanthys]

And how do you do this?

"I" in this instance does not mean me, the human on the keyboard. I was referring to John Q. Public. The ethnocentric, fearful, spiteful human in all of us.

You know, the person that you suppress daily- the one that inspires guilty liberal feel-gooders everywhere. The one that makes commentary like that above so revolting to many of you.

And I speak not only of Americans, but all nationalities. Fuck, the Asians (East Asians, Russians and Indians included) that I know are the most racist people I've ever met in my life. And it's not like anybody in Asia is a so-called "protected class".

Unless you're part of that select group that thinks only whites can be racist. For you, white guilt has become a dogmatized religion, and nothing will save you from yourself. It's a sad life, that one.

So, yea. Foreign. The 11th definition from dictionary.com is what I'll use here.
11.alien in character; irrelevant or inappropriate; remote.

That's how a foreigner is treated, if they choose to remain so. It's how we're wired. And as a whole, that won't change.

[Mtenda]

You know, the person that you suppress daily- the one that inspires guilty liberal feel-gooders everywhere. The one that makes commentary like that above so revolting to many of you.

I can't speak for anyone else but that person does not exist inside of me anymore. The only reason it ever did was because of choice.


And I speak not only of Americans, but all nationalities. Fuck, the Asians (East Asians, Russians and Indians included) that I know are the most racist people I've ever met in my life. And it's not like anybody in Asia is a so-called "protected class".

Unless you're part of that select group that thinks only whites can be racist. For you, white guilt has become a dogmatized religion, and nothing will save you from yourself. It's a sad life, that one.

I do agree with you in the sense that people will have some natural fear for what is different. But if we are talking about racism or general hatred of someone then I personally believe that is learned. What reasonable person thinks only whites can be racist anyway? I'd say that group is very select.


So, yea. Foreign. The 11th definition from dictionary.com is what I'll use here.
11.alien in character; irrelevant or inappropriate; remote.

That's how a foreigner is treated, if they choose to remain so. It's how we're wired. And as a whole, that won't change.

If they are truly a foreigner then sure why the hell should we care what they think about our politics? It does not effect them. I guess for me if someone is living in and by a culture with a "foreign" name I'm not going to choose to treat them as irrelevant. People that I have known that have hard to pronounce names usually go by something for short or whatever. But saying it should be americanized? Meh.

[radamanthys]

I can't speak for anyone else but that person does not exist inside of me anymore. The only reason it ever did was because of choice.



I do agree with you in the sense that people will have some natural fear for what is different. But if we are talking about racism or general hatred of someone then I personally believe that is learned. What reasonable person thinks only whites can be racist anyway? I'd say that group is very select.



If they are truly a foreigner then sure why the hell should we care what they think about our politics? It does not effect them. I guess for me if someone is living in and by a culture with a "foreign" name I'm not going to choose to treat them as irrelevant. People that I have known that have hard to pronounce names usually go by something for short or whatever. But saying it should be americanized? Meh.

This isn't a political thing for me in the least. It's about knowing when and how to fit in. Basically, If you wear your dick on your forehead, you're gonna be treated like a guy who wears his dick on his forehead.

Assuming otherwise is at the very least presumptuous, if not arrogant.

Actually, Perry Cox says it best:
"Lady, people aren't chocolates. D'you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bobble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine."

[thefarmer]

"I" in this instance does not mean me, the human on the keyboard. I was referring to John Q. Public. The ethnocentric, fearful, spiteful human in all of us.


I look like an Azn.

I have an Azn first name and a super wonderbread middle and last name.

I could have three cornbread cracker* names and you know what?

I still look AZN, therefor I'm going to be treated differently by your version of 'John Q. Public' anyway. What difference does changing your name do?

*replace whitey names with whatever nationality.


If you don't learn english and have an unpronounceable name, I will treat you as a foreigner..... That's how a foreigner is treated, if they choose
to remain so. It's how we're wired

Do you really think John Lee who can't speak engrish very well is less foreign that Hyo Lee who can say fried rice over flied lice?
Or going further, because my first name is AZN, despite my ability to speak English better than a majority of people with 'American' names, I'm still a foreigner because of my 'Un-Americanized' first name?


Separate thought, but what exactly is an 'American' name? How do you define it?

edit: Since Americans didn't invent their own native language, what do you base it on?

[Sean]

This isn't a political thing for me in the least. It's about knowing when and how to fit in. Basically, If you wear your dick on your forehead, you're gonna be treated like a guy who wears his dick on his forehead.

So if someone from Asia arrives here and lives here long enough to obtain citizenship and therefore voting rights the fact that they don't want to Americanize their names legally is a real problem for you? Is seems to me the real solution is to require all your documentation to have the same name/spelling. If your voter registration says your name is Zyyxxy then your drivers license should too and if you legally want to Americanize your name to John then do so but have all the corresponding documentation changed as well. Beyond that if your name is Zyyxxy I'm not going to treat you any different than if your name is John.

[crb]

I like asian (http://www.mahalo.com/Grace_Kim) women (http://www.hiromioshima.com/portfolio.php).
Whatever could encourage more such eye candy to come to to our shores suits me just fine.

edit: Asian chicks only. Asian dudes can stay on their side of the pacific.

[Drew]

Separate thought, but what exactly is an 'American' name? How do you define it?

edit: Since Americans didn't invent their own native language, what do you base it on?

Well no one is responding to me, but I said anglicize, not americanize for this very reason.

[Stanley Burrell]

I THINK AMERICANS SHOULD ASIANIZE THEIR NAMES.

HEIL CHAIRMAN MAO.

OR EVEN BETTER, WU-TANG THEIR NAMES.

http://blazonry.com/name_generator/wuname.php

qwpoeuoiryoieuwewoeuetoijrwp/eeoitprs'kgrjhlktreoiiw'etkrhtjikjdks'pok

[Drew]

So if someone from Asia arrives here and lives here long enough to obtain citizenship and therefore voting rights the fact that they don't want to Americanize their names legally is a real problem for you? Is seems to me the real solution is to require all your documentation to have the same name/spelling. If your voter registration says your name is Zyyxxy then your drivers license should too and if you legally want to Americanize your name to John then do so but have all the corresponding documentation changed as well. Beyond that if your name is Zyyxxy I'm not going to treat you any different than if your name is John.



I already gave this example but my sister moved to Korea and went by a Korean name because it was much easier for the vast majority of people there to say a Korean-ized named than her given one. What happened to common decency? Isn't it far more arrogant to assume that 300 million people should have to learn your name rather than you alone changing your name for the benefit of 300 million people.

[Stanley Burrell]

http://blazonry.com/name_generator/wuname.php

Irate Bastard

Bitter Dominator

[thefarmer]

I already gave this example but my sister moved to Korea and went by a Korean name because it was much easier for the vast majority of people there to say a Korean-ized named than her given one. What happened to common decency? Isn't it far more arrogant to assume that 300 million people should have to learn your name rather than you alone changing your name for the benefit of 300 million people.

What is her name? Korea's a fairly westernized culture. I can't see her having an absurd amount of difficulty with her name in the city.

[LMingrone]

I already gave this example but my sister moved to Korea and went by a Korean name because it was much easier for the vast majority of people there to say a Korean-ized named than her given one. What happened to common decency? Isn't it far more arrogant to assume that 300 million people should have to learn your name rather than you alone changing your name for the benefit of 300 million people.

You're right, it would be common decency to change it. But, then I wouldn't know how to pronounce my own name. And even then some American morons name their kids really stupid things.

I think it's a basic human right to call YOURSELF whatever you want. If I can't pronounce it correctly, don't get offended. See? We can get along. But yes, I would change my name to something more pronounceable if I moved.

My Grandfather still calls me Lorenzo in a voice I just can't copy. Doesn't bother me one bit.

[Faent]

Have you seen Little Wang?

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/04/man-hating_chinese_doctors_mur.php

[Back]

I’m going to Asianize my American name in protest...

Call me Won Hung Lo from now on.

[Back]

I THINK AMERICANS SHOULD ASIANIZE THEIR NAMES.

Stanrey!

Chairman Mao, Chairman Mao Tse-Tung,
spoke these words of wisdom.
Dare to struggle, dare to win,
fight the west from within!

[Warriorbird]

Irate Lover is my Wu Name.

[Back]

My Wu name is Foolish Destroyer, or shortened, Merry Samurai.

[radamanthys]

You're right, it would be common decency to change it. But, then I wouldn't know how to pronounce my own name. And even then some American morons name their kids really stupid things.

I think it's a basic human right to call YOURSELF whatever you want. If I can't pronounce it correctly, don't get offended. See? We can get along. But yes, I would change my name to something more pronounceable if I moved.

My Grandfather still calls me Lorenzo in a voice I just can't copy. Doesn't bother me one bit.

You wouldn't bother to learn the language and pronunciations of the country you were a guest in?

You can call yourself whatever you want. Nobody on this thread (other than the OP/article) advocated forced named changes.

[LMingrone]

Oh, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying in my example of me and my Grandfather, I've been called by him, the same name for 27 years. I still can't pronounce it anywhere close to how he can.

I'm all for learning the dialect out of respect for the culture you're trying to integrate into. Like I said, I would do it. I know no one is implying forced name changes. The woman in the article seemed like she would support it though.

Maybe I made my point incorrectly, my bad.

[Warriorbird]

The implication here was for people who learned the language too, rad. You'd presumably have to learn the language for full citizenship as well.

[Jayvn]

Everyone should just sign their social security number instead of their name... or just brand it on their wrist and or forehead.. and only those bearind the mark shall be allowed to vote... eat... etc.. continue with your bible misinterpretations as normal clyder

[Back]

Everyone should just sign their social security number instead of their name... or just brand it on their wrist and or forehead.. and only those bearind the mark shall be allowed to vote... eat... etc.. continue with your bible misinterpretations as normal clyder

Satjayvnen.

[Latrinsorm]

The ethnocentric, fearful, spiteful human in all of us.Oh, rubbish. Look at ancient Egypt, the Islamic Empire of late Antiquity, and on and on. People are ethnocentric because they're trained to be, not because they have to be. Further, America (80% white and 99% non-Arab) just elected a black guy with an Arabic-African name to the highest office in the country. Where did the ethnocentrism go?
What happened to common decency?Which of the following is harder to pronounce and, therefore, the greater insult to this "common decency":
Eoghain
Chang

[Drew]

Oh, rubbish. Look at ancient Egypt, the Islamic Empire of late Antiquity, and on and on. People are ethnocentric because they're trained to be, not because they have to be. Further, America (80% white and 99% non-Arab) just elected a black guy with an Arabic-African name to the highest office in the country. Where did the ethnocentrism go?Which of the following is harder to pronounce and, therefore, the greater insult to this "common decency":
Eoghain
Chang


One is a surname, one is a given. 99.9% of Americans with the name Eoghain spell it Owen (or Ian?) because that's the anglicized way. I know about Eoghain who plays Gemstone but the example does not prove the rule. I've never advocated people should be forced to change their names but I'd have the courtesy enough to respect the culture I was moving to by changing my name to something easier to say if I was to move somewhere else.

[Latrinsorm]

It's the whole idea of "culture" that's the problem. There is no American culture; there are thousands (if not millions) of American cultures. If Eoghain hangs out with people who happen to be familiar with Celtic languages, his name would not strike foreign overtones. If he were wandering around Amish country with his showy buttons and his devil's hairstyle, I'm sure the reaction would be different.

I guess in the end it seems to me rumblings like these have the tenor of xenophobia, and also seem too much "you do" and "you do" rather than "we'll do". Anecdotally, I can't ever remember a person who became combative over a name mispronunciation from any "ethnicity". Exasperation, frustration, sure, but problem-directed reactions rather than person-directed. Or maybe they all hated me behind my back, Ionno. I'm pretty sure they didn't. :)

[Warriorbird]

It's just a handy thing for conservatives to rail about.

[Drew]

I guess in the end it seems to me rumblings like these have the tenor of xenophobia, and also seem too much "you do" and "you do" rather than "we'll do". =


Yes I agree, I think it's arrogant to think you should say "you do" to 300 million people rather than just saying "I'll do".

[thefarmer]

I've never advocated people should be forced to change their names but I'd have the courtesy enough to respect the culture I was moving to by changing my name to something easier to say if I was to move somewhere else.

I think it's more for making life easier than out of respect (even including your sister). Had she had a name that was easy to say, would she have taken a Korean nickname? I'm guessing not. Unless she had severe yellow fever, which I suppose can't be discounted.

[Gan]

Betty Brown is a fucking idiot.

[Drew]

I think it's more for making life easier than out of respect (even including your sister). Had she had a name that was easy to say, would she have taken a Korean nickname? I'm guessing not. Unless she had severe yellow fever, which I suppose can't be discounted.


The reason you do it is for the convenience of the culture you are visiting. If she had an easy name to pronounce then I doubt she would change it, just as if someone came over here and their given name was "Dan" they probably wouldn't change it, because the culture they came to can already say the name.

[Stanley Burrell]

Chinese people's surnames are their actual names. When someone is named Xiao/Lao Ninja, they only put "Ninja" as their name on the SATs before scoring a 3000 and going to Harvard.

And if all else fails; Asian people, holy shit guys, can also change their names.

Also, we can make fun of people's stupid-sounding names, but Asian people are becoming too Americanized and doing corny whiteboy shit like turning Binghamton into a shooting gallery after we tell too many pee-pee in your coke jokes while squinting: So maybe we should act like a fourth-world Islamic country and stone everyone to death whose name isn't George Washington John Wayne in order to retain our phobic ways.

Look at all our fucking GemStone names.

This is the land of the free. If Frank Zappa can name his kids Dweezil and Moon Unit then my Vietnamese neighbors can name their children Q*bert Ng. Deal? Deal.







Here is an awesome picture of what happens when people try to alter their appearances:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_04/Jocelyn2BIG2502_721x1000.jpg

[thefarmer]

The reason you do it is for the convenience of the culture you are visiting. If she had an easy name to pronounce then I doubt she would change it, just as if someone came over here and their given name was "Dan" they probably wouldn't change it, because the culture they came
to can already say the name.


It could easily be as simple as your sister not wanting to listen to her name being mangled constantly. I know you keep saying it was for the Koreans convenience, but honestly it just seems like a convenience for your sister. I don't see any sort of respect or consideration involved.

[BigWorm]

You're right, it would be common decency to change it. But, then I wouldn't know how to pronounce my own name. And even then some American morons name their kids really stupid things.

I think it's a basic human right to call YOURSELF whatever you want. If I can't pronounce it correctly, don't get offended. See? We can get along. But yes, I would change my name to something more pronounceable if I moved.

My Grandfather still calls me Lorenzo in a voice I just can't copy. Doesn't bother me one bit.

I agree. It's fine by me if someone wants to change their name, but I don't believe in forcing anyone to change their name. And calling yourself whatever the fuck you want is clearly protected by the first amendment.

[Bhuryn]

I agree. It's fine by me if someone wants to change their name, but I don't believe in forcing anyone to change their name. And calling yourself whatever the fuck you want is clearly protected by the first amendment.

I bet if you wanted to Name yourself Osama Sadam Unibomber Son-of-Sam Hitler you'd run into some resistance at the local name-changin'-office.

[Clove]

It's also silly to change your name just because someone else refuses to learn how to pronounce it.Are you still bitter just because I pronounce your name "Seen"? Jesus, get over it already.