N. Korea rocket

[Kuyuk]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/01/north.korea.rocket/index.html


So they launch a satellite, big deal. They improve technology so they may learn how to launch ballistics longer range, big deal.

I think if we (meaning anyone in the world), shoot it down, it'll hurt relations more than letting them launch a satellite.

I mean shit, let them launch it, and make a secret operation to shoot it down within a year without being noticed.


K.

[Androidpk]

Actually it is a big deal. When you have a country that is as unstable as North Korea is, the last thing you want them to have is ballistic missile technology capable of hitting the western coast of the US. I'm hoping the Japanese blast the fucker out of the sky.

[Kuyuk]

I highly doubt they would ever try and fire on the west coast unless WW3 started..

What would be the flight time of a rocket from N-Korea to west coast anyway? a few hours? I'm sure we could deploy a few jets to make sure it got shot down if our missile defense system fails ;p


K.

[Latrinsorm]

At Mach 2 it would take over eight hours, more than enough time to deploy our "use Canada* as a continental meatshield" rockets.

*except, you know, Kranar and the other cool Canadians**.

**i.e. Wayne Gretzky, except he's in Phoenix, right? Fuck it.

[Kuyuk]

Wayne Gretzky is retired now, he's on the dinner plate.

Pity he kicked so much ass..

[Kuyuk]

Oh, and in 8 hours, I'm sure we could figure a solution to it. Hell, hire someone to suicide into it, the job market is pretty bleak, someone must need cash for their family.

[Androidpk]

A ballistic missile can travel at upwards of 15,000 mph. Hawaii is a little less then 5000 miles from Korea. About 20 minutes under ideal circumstances.

[Kuyuk]

well, no worries, there's 5 islands (6? more?)

We can lose a few..

[Latrinsorm]

A ballistic missile can travel at upwards of 15,000 mph. Hawaii is a little less then 5000 miles from Korea. About 20 minutes under ideal circumstances.Guess I screwed the pooch on that one. :oops:

[Celephais]

Holy shit this is an awesome pic from wiki:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Peacekeeper-missile-testing.jpg/792px-Peacekeeper-missile-testing.jpg

Testing at the Kwajalein Atoll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwajalein_Atoll) of the Peacekeeper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-118A_Peacekeeper) re-entry vehicles, all eight fired from only one missile. Each line, were its warhead live, represents the potential explosive power of about 375 kilotons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiloton) of TNT.

[Sean of the Thread]

Uhm it would take one .308 round hell... any round to keep anything from launching. And if you think there is not a spotter/sniper within 1000 meters of that launch pad at any given time then you need to take a reality check.

[Tsa`ah]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/01/north.korea.rocket/index.html


So they launch a satellite, big deal. They improve technology so they may learn how to launch ballistics longer range, big deal.

I think if we (meaning anyone in the world), shoot it down, it'll hurt relations more than letting them launch a satellite.

I mean shit, let them launch it, and make a secret operation to shoot it down within a year without being noticed.


K.

The problem in that is taking their word that it is indeed a satellite launch only ... or even just a satellite.

This isn't the first time they have attempted a test. In 98' they "attempted" to launch a satellite with a three stage rocket and "failed" ... yet they doubled the existing range of their missile capability. Which worries the fuck out of Japan (for good reason).

A successful "satellite" launch pretty much establishes ICBM capability. When that ability is reached by a nation with a lunatic hell bent on nuclear capability ... the satellite means nothing.

Though it's not something we (north America) need to worry about, since it's not a Topol SS 27, it is something every nation in that region needs to consider.

That and I'm not convinced we (the US) can shoot down anything launched at us. An ICBM traveling at Mach 13 isn't exactly a satellite.

[Kuyuk]

meh, give them the benefit of doubt and we can shoot down any satellite later

[Parkbandit]

meh, give them the benefit of doubt and we can shoot down any satellite later



Let's pretend that North Korea isn't putting a satellite into space.. but is really testing an inter-continental ballistic missile system. I will assume that you have also heard that North Korea is enriching uranium.

So let's see.. we have an ICBM.. and we have enriched uranium..... hmmmm......

[Tsa`ah]

Putting a satellite in orbit = ICBM capability

[Daniel]

meh, give them the benefit of doubt and we can shoot down any satellite later

Uh..Why?

[Tea & Strumpets]

Uhm it would take one .308 round hell... any round to keep anything from launching. And if you think there is not a spotter/sniper within 1000 meters of that launch pad at any given time then you need to take a reality check.

What do you mean, that there are snipers stationed and they would just keep shooting the Korean that was walking up to press the the giant red LAUNCH button, until the Koreans got the message?

[ElanthianSiren]

:lol: I would rep you for that mental image, but I can't.


Along with an Il style Team America subsequent rant.

[CrystalTears]

What do you mean, that there are snipers stationed and they would just keep shooting the Korean that was walking up to press the the giant red LAUNCH button, until the Koreans got the message?:rofl:

[Tsa`ah]

:lol: I would rep you for that mental image, but I can't.


Along with an Il style Team America subsequent rant.

Meh ... I gave him 2 rep on your behalf.

[Paradii]

well, no worries, there's 5 islands (6? more?)

We can lose a few..

More.

8 main islands and up to 132 others.

[Kuyuk]

Alright, say they do fire off this satellite. Is it the US's responsibility to shoot it down?

Or should the UN decide if a) it gets shot down, and b) who will be the person that destroys a countries (probably) billion dollar project?

If someone burst my billion dollar bubble, I'd probably aim for them first if I were to shoot nukes.

[Kuyuk]

<More.

8 main islands and up to 132 others.>



Oh shit, we have plenty for target practice for the koreans then.....

[CrystalTears]

<More.

8 main islands and up to 132 others.>



Oh shit, we have plenty for target practice for the koreans then.....
WTF. If you're going to be sarcastic about blowing up Hawaiian islands, put it in italics. If you're serious, please shut the fuck up.

Actually do it anyway because your responses in this whole thread have been rather fucktarded.

[Kuyuk]

Alright, after I posted that, I read this in the news: http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20090402/pl_bloomberg/aiffxa5likds

Pretty much goes into more detail than my one liner..<<Kim Jong Il’s regime threatened military action against any attempt to shoot it down.>>

and << Obama told China’s Hu Jintao that the U.S. would take up any missile launch by Pyongyang with the UN Security Council.>>

Take it up with the UN, let them decide what to do.

and lastly: <<Washington has no plans to shoot down the missile>>

[Atlanteax]

It'll get shot down before it approaches Japan.

The US and Japan both have assets in place to do the job.

Probably just hoping that NK will change their mind about doing it, hence *publicly stating* that there are no plans to do so.

[Sean of the Thread]

This is becoming interesting.

[Stanley Burrell]

What if they decide not to set their trajectory that far from home and, say, use an EMP above a somewhat neighboring country?

And yeah, we can send commandos into N. Korea to cut the heads off of the snake just like our covert operatives went into Pakistan to take care of Bin Laden.

[Rocktar]

What if they decide not to set their trajectory that far from home and, say, use an EMP above a somewhat neighboring country?

Well, with the level of scrutiny this thing is getting, they will likely have every known trajectory and target plotted within 10-20 seconds of launch and in a few more seconds, a decision will be made as to if it is going to be splashed. If they want to splash it, they will, long before it reaches a target of value.

As to commandos, well, the country is one of the most heavily armed (not well, just heavily) in the world with more standing military than most anywhere so I would imagine that the likelihood of doing a commando raid is pretty slim. Now, bombing his ass or sending him cruise missiles with love, that is a much easier thing to do and less costly in lives to cross the border. Me, I would have let MacArthur go for it and be done with this mess a long time ago.

[Warriorbird]

Hopefully the satellite will be as successful as their mega hotel.

http://www.cracked.com/article_17165_6-reasons-north-korea-funniest-evil-dictatorship-ever.html

[Tsa`ah]

I find it a bit odd that so many are confident we can shoot down a missile when we don't exactly have a history of that capability. We do have 95 billion (possibly more) thrown at unproven missile defense projects, but no real successful testing or real world application of such projects.

Again, a satellite is not a missile ... and we've only ever shot down one of those (and it wasn't a missile).

[Rocktar]

I find it a bit odd that so many are confident we can shoot down a missile when we don't exactly have a history of that capability. We do have 95 billion (possibly more) thrown at unproven missile defense projects, but no real successful testing or real world application of such projects.

Again, a satellite is not a missile ... and we've only ever shot down one of those (and it wasn't a missile).

Seriously, it wasn't a missle? Really?

Actually, we have a lot of proven technology with real world battle field testing. Just because it isn't splashed all over the news doesn't mean it hasn't happend or doesn't exist. I used to talk to some people in that very field and well, they are confident enough in the tech to say they had no fears of being on the target end of a multiple ICBM target package with the defenses we have available today. By the way, I used to live in Cheyenne, Wyoming not too long ago, the home of one of the two remaining land based ICBM bases in the country. These guys were in the know of what is really going in with missiles. Besides, the airborn laser defense system has a range of over 100 miles and that lets them sit in international airspace and shoot the thing down if they want and that is just one example of what we do know about publicly.

[Tsa`ah]

I'll actually take the word of experts over yours.

[CrystalTears]

Actually, we have a lot of proven technology with real world battle field testing. Just because it isn't splashed all over the news doesn't mean it hasn't happend or doesn't exist. I used to talk to some people in that very field...You know all this from emails, amirite?!

[Rocktar]

No, personally talking to the guys that used, deployed and serviced the systems as well as the guys that live in holes in the ground waiting to turn keys and incinerate millions of people.

[Keller]

Just because it isn't splashed all over the news doesn't mean it hasn't happend or doesn't exist. I used to talk to some people in that very field and well, they are confident enough in the tech to say they had no fears of being on the target end of a multiple ICBM target package with the defenses we have available today.

I feel like it could have happened, so the fact that it can't is a mere technicality.

[Sean of the Thread]

I think China might be a deciding factor in how this plays out to be honest.

[Kuyuk]

You think so?

I dont think China will play a major role in it, but who knows... I sure dont.


K.

[Warriorbird]

I think Sean is pretty wise (irony!). China has pull there.

[Androidpk]

China does indeed have a lot of pull with North Korea.

[Kuyuk]

China is also in the 6 party talks to denuke N.Korea.. I cant see them being part of the talks and want them to shoot this missile

Mebbe if they told their red headed step child neighbor to STFU and dont launch, they might listen?

[Sean of the Thread]

I think that was my point.

Current updates on the matter is China along with S korea america and japan are offering massive aid in return for them not launching.

South Korea and Japan have promised a swift and stern retaliation if they do launch however.

But in other news Obama made friends with the French for us. wtf is the world doing atm rofl.

[crb]

What do you mean, that there are snipers stationed and they would just keep shooting the Korean that was walking up to press the the giant red LAUNCH button, until the Koreans got the message?
An enemy cannot press a button if you disable his hand!

[crb]

Seriously, it wasn't a missle? Really?

Actually, we have a lot of proven technology with real world battle field testing. Just because it isn't splashed all over the news doesn't mean it hasn't happend or doesn't exist. I used to talk to some people in that very field and well, they are confident enough in the tech to say they had no fears of being on the target end of a multiple ICBM target package with the defenses we have available today. By the way, I used to live in Cheyenne, Wyoming not too long ago, the home of one of the two remaining land based ICBM bases in the country. These guys were in the know of what is really going in with missiles. Besides, the airborn laser defense system has a range of over 100 miles and that lets them sit in international airspace and shoot the thing down if they want and that is just one example of what we do know about publicly.
We have done successful missile tests.

We shot down that satellite, but we've also shot down missiles.

Sure, it was a test, we knew the missiles were being launched, this is a hell of a lot different than having North Korea shoot one at us to test it. Do you want to run that test? Aim a nuke at LA or San Fran and see if we can shoot it down, just so we know if the program is worth it?

Come on. Sure, the missile tests to date have not been 100%, but you know what? I'd rather have oh... a 75% chance to shoot down an enemy missile than a 0% chance.

I think the first successful missile test was in 2002 or 2003, pretty long ago technologically. That one went 2/3 I think (a little fuzzy) I'm sure they've gotten better.

I think this was the first success:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/2003/space-031212-afps01.htm

[Androidpk]

We should just go ahead and hit the launch site with a cruise missile. Enough of the baby steps.

[Kuyuk]

that would be pretty comical in a messed up way.

[Back]

I think Kim Jong Il is just insecure.

Say “Yo, Dog! Where the bitches?” and he’d be cool.

That’s what the secret FBI agents does.

[Back]

And about this Patriot Missile shit?

One percent has been successful.

Don’t kid yourself.

[Tsa`ah]

We have done successful missile tests.

We shot down that satellite, but we've also shot down missiles.

"My kid knocked the snot out of 7 of 11 balls yesterday at his tee ball game ... he's destined to play in the majors!"

"Ya? How old is he?"

"26"

"...."

The tests couldn't even be counted as slow pitch. They were not only highly scripted single target tests (the last that was supposed to include counter measures failed ... to deploy said counter measures), but so dumbed down that you couldn't count it as a real world scenario.


Sure, it was a test, we knew the missiles were being launched, this is a hell of a lot different than having North Korea shoot one at us to test it. Do you want to run that test? Aim a nuke at LA or San Fran and see if we can shoot it down, just so we know if the program is worth it?

We've spent over 95 bill (recorded) on these systems since Reagan ... setting up a realistic test with realistic multiple targets isn't the risk you've outlined since there are vast stretches of uninhabited land and empty expanses of vast ocean.

Then again, we're talking about the confidence we can shoot down this Korean rock/missile at our leisure. When we can pick off one of our own patriot 3's while yawning ... I'll understand the confidence.


Come on. Sure, the missile tests to date have not been 100%, but you know what? I'd rather have oh... a 75% chance to shoot down an enemy missile than a 0% chance.

I think the first successful missile test was in 2002 or 2003, pretty long ago technologically. That one went 2/3 I think (a little fuzzy) I'm sure they've gotten better.

I think this was the first success:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/library/news/2003/space-031212-afps01.htm

Read my opening response.

[Ignot]

I think that was my point.

Current updates on the matter is China along with S korea america and japan are offering massive aid in return for them not launching.

South Korea and Japan have promised a swift and stern retaliation if they do launch however.

But in other news Obama made friends with the French for us. wtf is the world doing atm rofl.

I wouldn't be surprised if China fronts like that want it stopped with intentions of letting it go.

[Mabus]

But in other news Obama made friends with the French for us. wtf is the world doing atm rofl.
When Chancellor Angela Merkel drive through Paris the other day all the French security forces dropped their weapons and held their hands up...

[Kembal]

I'm just kind of hoping it blows up on the launch pad.

I would not take N. Korea's word that it's a satellite launch. I'm fairly certain the N. Korean generals (who I think really run the show, not Kim Jong Il) believe they need the ability to threaten the U.S. with a nuclear launch in order to force the U.S. into dropping sanctions or something.

As for China, their motive is uncertain at any point in time regarding N. Korea. They like having them around as a distraction for the U.S. generally, but right now, I'd think they really don't want the U.S. distracted either. They've got too many T-bills and exports at risk if the U.S. economy nosedives again. (as opposed to the shaky holding pattern we're in now)

[Back]

Its all a show for attention.

NK is a drama queen.

[Sean of the Thread]

I'm just kind of hoping it blows up on the launch pad.

I would not take N. Korea's word that it's a satellite launch. I'm fairly certain the N. Korean generals (who I think really run the show, not Kim Jong Il) believe they need the ability to threaten the U.S. with a nuclear launch in order to force the U.S. into dropping sanctions or something.

As for China, their motive is uncertain at any point in time regarding N. Korea. They like having them around as a distraction for the U.S. generally, but right now, I'd think they really don't want the U.S. distracted either. They've got too many T-bills and exports at risk if the U.S. economy nosedives again. (as opposed to the shaky holding pattern we're in now)


Honestly I'm fairly sincere in thinking that their last failure was due to a US sniper team. I don't see why ... especially with out "stance" that we're not going to attempt to shoot it down pose... would be the case again.

A single suppressed round from 1500 meters would result in it being a clusterfuck again and it would be completely subversive and deniable no matter what.

For those of you that think we wouldn't have covert teams there now... please check yourself.

[Androidpk]

Richard Marcinko is on standby.

[Back]

Honestly I'm fairly sincere in thinking that their last failure was due to a US sniper team. I don't see why ... especially with out "stance" that we're not going to attempt to shoot it down pose... would be the case again.

A single suppressed round from 1500 meters would result in it being a clusterfuck again and it would be completely subversive and deniable no matter what.

For those of you that think we wouldn't have covert teams there now... please check yourself.

Too bad Biden is the new VP.

[Androidpk]

Looks like North Korea has gone ahead with their plans and launched the missile.

[Kuyuk]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/04/north.korea.rocket/index.html

[Kuyuk]

<<Japan did not try to intercept it, as it had indicated that it would if its territory was threatened, it said in a statement.>>

Drats.

Prolly were like "doo-do-doo.. Oh shit, there it goes.."



<< the U.S. military said "no object entered orbit." North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command officials said in a statement that the first stage of the rocket fell into the waters between Korea and Japan, while the two other stages, and its payload, landed in the Pacific Ocean.>>

Heh, N.Korea says it's in orbit, we say it's sinking to the bottom... who to believe, who to believe..




K.

[Parkbandit]

Heh, N.Korea says it's in orbit, we say it's sinking to the bottom... who to believe, who to believe..



I'll stick to believing the good ol' USA

[Androidpk]

I can see why North Korea would claim the launch was a success and the satellite (if that is what it truely was) entered orbit... but why would Russia also say the satellite entered orbit?

[Parkbandit]

I can see why North Korea would claim the launch was a success and the satellite (if that is what it truely was) entered orbit... but why would Russia also say the satellite entered orbit?

Why would Russia side with N. Korea? Hmm....


North Korea–Russia relations are determined by Russia’s serious and legitimate strategic interests in Korea. The fundamental goal of the preservation of peace and stability on the Korean peninsula defines Russia’s policy toward Korea, and by extension its position on a settlement of the North Korean nuclear crisis. Russia stands firmly behind a peaceful resolution of the crisis, achieved through diplomacy and negotiation.

Russia has sunk considerable amounts of capital into numerous large-scale, long-term international infrastructure projects involving the Korean peninsula, such as oil and gas pipelines and Trans-Korean and Trans-Siberian railroads junctions. These projects are of crucial importance to the economic revitalization of the Russian Far East, and in the case of a new Korean War, these projects—and Russian economic interests—would be severely damaged.

[Sean of the Thread]

pwnt