political/social reform in the us

[Apotheosis]

Here's a couple points I'm throwing up here, some of it's based on others' opinion's, some of it's based on my personal experience, some of it's just based on what I think makes the most sense to me.

In any case, I want to throw a few ideas out there, just to see what people think, how they may agree, how they may disagree.

By my nature, I tend to lean Libertarian (politically), that is, I'm for Smaller Government, Less Taxes, More Freedom. :-D

But the following are some issues that we're facing in this country, and here's how I think some of these "problems" can be solved..

I understand that some of these policies might actually mean HIGHER taxes, but I actually wouldn't mind that.

In addition, I think that WE THE PEOPLE should have more control over how our individual tax contributions are directed.


Education Reform:

1. Provide more cooperation with local and national employers and education institutions (elementary through 12th) for vocational or general training. This SHOULD prepare students for employment after graduation or to enter college.

2. Hold teacher unions, or individual teachers responsible for the success of their students, remove consistently underperforming students.

3. Create incentives for teachers that show an improvement in there students performance (based on independent review).

4. Increase teacher to student ratio ie (1:30).

5. Implement "voucher" system to allow parents in underperforming districts to send students to charter or private schools.

6. Create a mandatory, federal curriculum requiring students to learn the concepts of saving, maintaining a personal budget and reducing/avoiding debt.

7. Federally fund community college for ALL students for a maximum of 2 years.
Require work study or voluntary federal/community service for students receiving this benefit. Not applicable to 4 year Bachelor / Master programs.


Corporate Reform:

1. End tax breaks for corporations that ship jobs overseas.

2. Give tax breaks for 1 - 2 years for corporations that HIRE more people than are laid off / fired for the year.

3. Create a "junior employee" tax credit encouraging corporations to hire more out-of-college or new employees while retaining SENIOR employees.

4. Create a "rapid response" fraud investigation team. These people need to be on the front line and have access to congress & the senate before stuff starts hitting the fan.

5. INCREASE penalties for corporate fraud, including, but not limited to raising fines for pollution, hiring illegal immigrants...etc..



Immigration Reform:

1. Penalize employers who hire illegal immigrants over US citizens. Bring Back E-verify.

2. Create tighter borders, primarily along the south.. increase presence of national guard or other security force to manage problems related to drug cartels & smugglers.

3. Reduce liability for property owners near border/smuggling routes making efforts to secure their property. Offer tax credits for them to barricade/reinforce their property lines.

4. Clearly, I have NO idea how immigration works, HOWEVER, here's how I think it should work:

Applicants for US immigration should be able to BEGIN THE PROCESS in their home country through means of the US Embassy.

They have 1 - 2 years in which they a) have to line up employment, b) have to line up housing, c) have to line up travel, insurance, and d) pass a background check.
Throughout this process, the US and other non-profit groups should be able to provide limited assistance, which is only partially funded by taxpayers, not entirely.

Once everything is "clear", they have a 5 year probationary period before they can be granted "full US citizenship" as accorded by law. They should NOT be required to learn English, but have to deal with the repercussions of not knowing the language.

In cases of Asylum, etc. well, they need to get the hell out of their dictatorship first.

[Clove]

I think this infringes on immigrants', corporations' and students' pursuit of happyness.

[Apotheosis]

I think this infringes on immigrants', corporations' and students' pursuit of happyness.

(BTW: it's happiness)

while I appreciate your sarcasm in this reply.... I have to remind myself that my grandparents immigrated (emigrated?) to this country prior to the great depression...

my grandfather was a commercial painter/handyman, my grandmother was a talented embroiderer, together they ran a convenience store in their Italian
neighborhood (East Chicago).

My grandparents also taught the inherent value of extending their hands out to people in need... helping to feed those who needed it during the depression.

They raised a family of 5, provided for them.. those children went to college, worked hard (Either married or became entrepreneurs) and raised families of their own and in turn provided for them... did this mean handing their children all the $$ they needed? no.

it meant that their children and subsequently the grandchildren learned what it meant to work and earn a living without special favors from the government....

clearly the idea of self-reliance has been lost to most Americans and our politicians have forgotten who they work for.

a corporation is NOT a citizen of the US.

/rant

[Kuyuk]

I think your education reform ideas are seriously stupid, except for paid 2 year college.

<<Education Reform:

1. Provide more cooperation with local and national employers and education institutions (elementary through 12th) for vocational or general training. This SHOULD prepare students for employment after graduation or to enter college.>>
What does this even mean? provide more cooperation?


<<2. Hold teacher unions, or individual teachers responsible for the success of their students, remove consistently underperforming students.>>
Yeah, because it's the teachers fault the kids are either a) stupid, b) delinquents, c) dont give a shit because they're teenagers.

Teachers are there to discipline kids, they are there to TEACH kids. They cant teach people who have absolutely no interest in it, nor should they. To hold them responsible for it, is dumb.



<<3. Create incentives for teachers that show an improvement in there students performance (based on independent review).>>
Who does the review? who reviews the review board? what checks and balances are there to prevent this to become just as corrupt as many other incentive programs?

While I have no problem with incentives, teachers could make things extremely easy so the performance goes up. Unless you're teaching toward a test, in which case teachers just need to teach the test related material. Either way, it's not a good system, look at the SATs. All you have to do is grab a book and memorize the questions and answers and you're set.



<<4. Increase teacher to student ratio ie (1:30).>>
Great idea, however what if a group wants to have smaller groups? 1:14, 1:20, 1:5?

How will this work in large cities and such? Where will we get all these teachers? How can we convince people to start teaching to fill in all the voids if this were to ever become true - teachers dont get paid a whole lot... If we pay them more, it's increasing taxes..


<<5. Implement "voucher" system to allow parents in underperforming districts to send students to charter or private schools. >>
So you're transporting kids kids from shitty schools to private schools.. Who will pay for tuition? the shitty school? I would assume since it's a voucher.. In which case, the shitty school would be forced to be shittier because it would then be paying other schools to teach its districts kids instead of them.. which would make it so they couldnt spend money on teaching their own kids.. i.e. downward spiral - bad idea.


<<6. Create a mandatory, federal curriculum requiring students to learn the concepts of saving, maintaining a personal budget and reducing/avoiding debt. >>
While we need to teach everyone the basics of economics, not sure if a federal curriculum would be the best way. I would avoid the government influence and make the curriculum come from an educational source, not a government one.



<<7. Federally fund community college for ALL students for a maximum of 2 years.
Require work study or voluntary federal/community service for students receiving this benefit. Not applicable to 4 year Bachelor / Master programs. >>

I somewhat agree with this statement. I think we would be a lot better off if the Man paid for some(or all) of our college, not sure if I would put a maximum of 2 years on it. Maximum of 4 yes, so people can get 4 year degrees.

I like the idea of a service requirement for the funds.. I have often thought that there should be a minimum of 6 month 'community service' requirement for all people between 16-21 (after high school, during summers, etc). Not make it anything outrageous (i.e. join the military), but something constructive to the nation.. (i.e. beautifying the city/town, planting trees, picking up trash, construction for poorer neighborhoods, construction of schools/libraries/etc). This would pump a boatload of essentially free labor into the economy, and give everyone something to put on their resumes.

K.

[ClydeR]

Lots of good ideas by Apotheosis. Vouchers are for sure the way to go.

[BigWorm]

Remove under preforming students? What does that even mean? Dumb kids aren't allowed to go to school?

[Sean]

2. Hold teacher unions, or individual teachers responsible for the success of their students, remove consistently underperforming students.

3. Create incentives for teachers that show an improvement in there students performance (based on independent review).

I thought it was shown that in situations where these 2 concepts occur teachers are more likely to allow students to cheat/advance unethically in order to maintain their jobs and reach incentives?

[Warriorbird]

As much as I like a lot of your ideas... there are serious practical problems. Flat out Libertarians and the libertarian-leaning members of both parties have a long way to go before they can make progress.

Education

1. Vocational and general training...

...what vocations? What would the incentive be for corporations? Outsourcing and foreign labor and illegal labor tend to reduce the feasibility of this sort of thing.

2. Accountability for teachers I like... though it can lead to nasty teaching to the test so it should be broader than the whole No Child Left Behind idea.

Removing underperforming students... what the fuck do you do with them?

3. Who's independent review for the incentives? What areas? Are we going to artificially incentivize the right things?

4. Increase teacher to student ratio... with what money? The party you seem more drawn to wants to cut education budgets. The Democrats seem scared to propose things that would show them 'in the pocket of teacher's unions.'

5. Voucher system... most private schools charge a lot more than the public system would, as inefficient as it is. Is this segregation 2?

6. Great idea.

7. Great idea... but why don't we want them to go farther? Are you interested in creating some sort of underclass?


Corporate Reform

1. Cold day in hell when tax breaks for corporations who send jobs overseas will happen. They own Congress. ALL of Congress.

2. Interesting idea for an incentive. I like it.

3. Also a great idea.

4. The people who own Congress would HATE this idea.

5. Once again....

Immigration

1. Sadly... immigration enforcement is the redheaded stepchild of all other enforcement. People want it that way.

2. With what money?

3. Great idea on the tax breaks... there's just massive collusion along the borders. They're huge.

[Tsa`ah]

First, term limits for all elected positions ... and perhaps on the supreme court.

Give the people the ability to recall their elected representatives and executives ... only in the second term unless there's evidence of gross misconduct.

Education.

Equal distribution of funds, per student, across the board.

Break up the teachers union into smaller regional unions. Make the teachers in each region responsible for each other's performance ... this will force good teachers and faculty to cull the flock.

Break up large schools into smaller schools, cap the number of students per teacher in any given class room.

Within the smaller schools, allow for vocational studies in specific areas differing from other schools within the district. Allow for the students to co-op with other schools if their school doesn't provide for the desired vocational study.

If a school under-performs for a period of 3-4 years, that school will be closed for one year for re-staffing.

Subsidize all undergraduate studies based on income ... for a maximum of four years. Pay for graduate studies only in fields where a demand exists ... and require that graduates work in the US, in said field, for no less than 8 years.

Subsidize graduate studies based on the level of demand and income.

Taxes.

We're going to pay them ... use them efficiently. No more junkets, aka vacations paid for by the tax payer. No balls, no excessive events for foreign dignitaries ... you get the drift.

Disqualify immediate family members of elected officials from appointed positions. Disqualify immediate family members of elected officials state/federal employment unless said family member's employment existed prior to an election campaign. Both for the duration of the officials time in office.

No foreign contracts paid for by state or federal tax dollars unless a qualified contractor for said contract does not exist within the US.

Steep taxes for US companies that export jobs.

Remove all loopholes ... and then lower taxes.

No tax dollars for any political campaign.

That's probably enough for now. It's pretty much a list of things you'll never see in your lifetime.

[BriarFox]

The fact that ClydeR just agreed with you is the death knell for this thread.

Also, your educational reform ideas are ridiculous - you want to increase mandatory coursework, increase standards, and increase the teacher to student ratio to 1 to 30? The first two are more or less contradictory, while that ratio is infeasible in K-12, and not at all good for anything but lecture in college.

I didn't even bother to read anything after that.

[Warriorbird]

ClydeR = Ron Paul.

[Apotheosis]

I think your education reform ideas are seriously stupid, except for paid 2 year college.

<<Education Reform:

1. Provide more cooperation with local and national employers and education institutions (elementary through 12th) for vocational or general training. This SHOULD prepare students for employment after graduation or to enter college.>>
What does this even mean? provide more cooperation?


Clearly, I should have been more specific.

I would like to see more apprenticeship/trade/vocational options for students who CHOOSE to pursue that route as a career.

Conversely, corporations/business large and small should be able to recruit/train people interested in their field as early as Highschool.




<<2. Hold teacher unions, or individual teachers responsible for the success of their students, remove consistently underperforming students.>>
Yeah, because it's the teachers fault the kids are either a) stupid, b) delinquents, c) dont give a shit because they're teenagers.

Teachers are there to discipline kids, they are there to TEACH kids. They cant teach people who have absolutely no interest in it, nor should they. To hold them responsible for it, is dumb.


Clearly, I should have meant under performing TEACHERS, not students.
Discipline starts at the home. But umm.. there's plenty of ways to get people involved in their own education and well being. The problem is, school's not really "customized" to the student.



<<3. Create incentives for teachers that show an improvement in their students performance (based on independent review).>>
Who does the review? who reviews the review board? what checks and balances are there to prevent this to become just as corrupt as many other incentive programs?

While I have no problem with incentives, teachers could make things extremely easy so the performance goes up. Unless you're teaching toward a test, in which case teachers just need to teach the test related material. Either way, it's not a good system, look at the SATs. All you have to do is grab a book and memorize the questions and answers and you're set.





<4. Increase teacher to student ratio ie (1:30).>>
Great idea, however what if a group wants to have smaller groups? 1:14, 1:20, 1:5?

How will this work in large cities and such? Where will we get all these teachers? How can we convince people to start teaching to fill in all the voids if this were to ever become true - teachers dont get paid a whole lot... If we pay them more, it's increasing taxes..


There are a few teaching groups out there that actually spend a year or two out of college teaching inner-city students (can't remember the name of the group).. problem is, the Unions won't let them become permanent teachers (this is a situation unique to Michigan).



<<5. Implement "voucher" system to allow parents in underperforming districts to send students to charter or private schools. >>

So you're transporting kids kids from shitty schools to private schools.. Who will pay for tuition? the shitty school? I would assume since it's a voucher.. In which case, the shitty school would be forced to be shittier because it would then be paying other schools to teach its districts kids instead of them.. which would make it so they couldnt spend money on teaching their own kids.. i.e. downward spiral - bad idea.


Umm, well, with all parents having the option to send their children to a school of their choice, clearly that causes the bad schools to collapse.

This also encourages socio-economic/racial diversity at an early age.

How am I wrong?




<<6. Create a mandatory, federal curriculum requiring students to learn the concepts of saving, maintaining a personal budget and reducing/avoiding debt. >>

While we need to teach everyone the basics of economics, not sure if a federal curriculum would be the best way. I would avoid the government influence and make the curriculum come from an educational source, not a government one.


I guess, the basic premise was creating a baseline program mandated/tested/developed from a federal level so that all 50 states have the same "program" for learning the basics of economics / financial discipline.



<<7. Federally fund community college for ALL students for a maximum of 2 years.
Require work study or voluntary federal/community service for students receiving this benefit. Not applicable to 4 year Bachelor / Master programs. >>

I somewhat agree with this statement. I think we would be a lot better off if the Man paid for some(or all) of our college, not sure if I would put a maximum of 2 years on it. Maximum of 4 yes, so people can get 4 year degrees.


No, because community college is enough to get the basic creds for a 4 year degree out of the way while giving a student enough time to decide if they even WANT to go for a bachelor degree.. they can get 2 year degrees to learn a trade, business/office management functions, etc.

I don't want someone wasting taxpayer money for 4 years to decide that "fine art" degree wasn't what they really wanted.



I like the idea of a service requirement for the funds.. I have often thought that there should be a minimum of 6 month 'community service' requirement for all people between 16-21 (after high school, during summers, etc). Not make it anything outrageous (i.e. join the military), but something constructive to the nation.. (i.e. beautifying the city/town, planting trees, picking up trash, construction for poorer neighborhoods, construction of schools/libraries/etc). This would pump a boatload of essentially free labor into the economy, and give everyone something to put on their resumes.


No, because sometimes people need to work at the age of 16 (I did) to earn a few $$ to save for college, or other needs. Mandating free labor does not
encourage "volunteerism" down the road, however it does take time away from making pizza's so they can earn a few $$.

Perhaps mandating it as part of highschool curricula, not bad.

[Apotheosis]

I thought it was shown that in situations where these 2 concepts occur teachers are more likely to allow students to cheat/advance unethically in order to maintain their jobs and reach incentives?

Hence the reason why there needs to be an external scenario for them to test, etc.. Silvan Learning center perhaps?

This is an idea that I like, but not sure how it actually works out in reality.

[Apotheosis]

Remove under preforming students? What does that even mean? Dumb kids aren't allowed to go to school?

epic fail on my part.

I meant to remove/penalize under performing teachers..

[Apotheosis]

Education

1. Vocational and general training...

...what vocations? What would the incentive be for corporations?


Vocations that are relevant to the locality of the school system.. incentive for corporations: Good PR, seen as "giving back to the community", creates an early place for them to promote their brand/service/product, and gives children a glimpse into a company/industry they may or may not wish to work for.



2. Accountability for teachers I like... though it can lead to nasty teaching to the test so it should be broader than the whole No Child Left Behind idea.

3. Who's independent review for the incentives? What areas? Are we going to artificially incentivize the right things?

4. Increase teacher to student ratio... with what money? The party you seem more drawn to wants to cut education budgets. The Democrats seem scared to propose things that would show them 'in the pocket of teacher's unions.'

5. Voucher system... most private schools charge a lot more than the public system would, as inefficient as it is. Is this segregation 2?


I don't have an answer for some of the issues regarding education.. This is strictly my opinion.

Clearly it isn't, it's creating a scenario for more socioeconomic/social diversity. What's the fiscal difference between a private/charter school vs. public?
[/quote]



6. Great idea.

7. Great idea... but why don't we want them to go farther? Are you interested in creating some sort of underclass?




No, 2 years of community college is a way to get your feet wet, decide what career you want to pursue, mature, get basic electives out of the way, and even decide if you want a Bachelor's degree or higher.

At that point, federally funded loans exist, and it's time to really have a vested interest in your performance while in college.



Corporate Reform

1. Cold day in hell when tax breaks for corporations who send jobs overseas will happen. They own Congress. ALL of Congress.

2. Interesting idea for an incentive. I like it.

3. Also a great idea.

4. The people who own Congress would HATE this idea.

5. Once again....

Immigration

1. Sadly... immigration enforcement is the redheaded stepchild of all other enforcement. People want it that way.

2. With what money?

3. Great idea on the tax breaks... there's just massive collusion along the borders. They're huge.[/QUOTE]

[Clove]

a corporation is NOT a citizen of the US. Sure, corporations are "entity enough" to pay taxes... but the minute they want equal rights!!!!

[Gan]

Vocations that are relevant to the locality of the school system.. incentive for corporations: Good PR, seen as "giving back to the community"...

I want to chime in here in that I'm in agreement and I also see this locally here in Houston. There are several automotive dealerships who support auto-shop programs at several high-schools, without which those programs would easily be cancelled due to lack of funding.

I think there should be lots of types of vocational skill opportunities offered in highschools simply because not everyone wants to attend college but will need to acquire skills at some point once they graduate.

[ElanthianSiren]

Whomever mentioned bringing in no confidence votes has my vote.

[Gan]

Whomever mentioned bringing in no confidence votes has my vote.

That and term limits...

[Tisket]

The fact that ClydeR just agreed with you is the death knell for this thread.

I thought it meant an average of six additional pages added to a thread.