tax cheats

[Keller]

So now we know. President Obama has had a discrete and effective plan to raise federal revenue all along. This is how was sure he could operate under a pay-go model. The plan is simple, yet ingenious. He targets wealthy individuals who filled inaccurate tax returns, cheating the federal government out of tens of thousands of dollars. Then he just nominates them for cabinet positions.

All kidding aside, there are two points I think are worth making.

First, a couple months ago there was a collective groan from prospective Obama cabinet employees over the extensive and elaborate vetting process. It was widely criticized as too invasive of the individuals privacy at the most, and too daunting a collection of information at the least. But what we've come to find out is that, contrary to prior administrations vetting process, it has produced at least two high profile tax cheats.

Now, is this the result of Obama cabinet members being sleazy? Or is it the result of an extraordinary vetting process that has just uncovered an accepted, if not illegal, convention of individuals trying to save on their federal tax liability.

Second, and quite related to the first, is who is more ingenuous in this situation. Is it the high-tax liberals who evaded paying their own tax or the low-tax conservatives who criticize these individuals for paying fewer taxes? I'd posit that tax cheats are not few and far between, but that all of us has at one point or another not paid our literal liability -- whether intentional or unintentional. Is that wrong? Is it our patriotic duty (ahem, Mr. Biden) to pay our taxes? Does that mean we're unpatriotic if we don't report every in-kind income source? I don't know.

[CrystalTears]

I've been reporting my wages and paying taxes since the day I started working.

I even took it in the butt when my exhusband and I started our own business and he limped out on me when my family wouldn't continue to fund the business and he refused to get a loan.

Erm... TMI. Sorry.

[Clove]

CT takes it in the butt! Haha.

[Clove]

Does that mean we're unpatriotic if we don't report every in-kind income source? I don't know.No. Just fruadulant.

[DeV]

When you have a tax code that's 4000 pages you're going to have cheaters. Not to mention the individuals and companies who legally cheat the system. We've given bailout money to corporations who utilize offshore tax havens to varying degrees. That's ass backwards.

[Kuyuk]

CT made my day...

[Jorddyn]

When you have a tax code that's 4000 pages you're going to have cheaters.

Ding ding ding. Of course, if you had a tax code that read "Pay 25% of every dollar you earn", you'd still have cheaters. It's just that people with multiple sources of income, schedule C businesses, and other contract type income have a much easier time not reporting it than those who only get W-2s.

[Keller]

When you have a tax code that's 4000 pages you're going to have cheaters. Not to mention the individuals and companies who legally cheat the system. We've given bailout money to corporations who utilize offshore tax havens to varying degrees. That's ass backwards.

Oh, I agree. Tax planning is a gigantic industry. It's how I make my living.

But what I kind of want to get at, and I likely wasn't clear, is whether that is a bad thing. Is it tax planning or tax cheating? I am currently working on a series of transaction that legally produce an unnatural result of, at the end of the day, putting about 2 billion dollars of tax basis onto 5 year depreciable assets. It's all within the letter of the law, but do I or the client have a moral (patriotic?) duty to not engage in legal behavior that has such unnatural results?

If I don't have an obligation -- where does that obligation begin? When I have in-kind income? When I have knowledge of that in-kind income? I just see tax evasion or tax planning as a widespread practice that it perhaps as morally offensive as speeding. It's just a series of regulations that we're legally bound to comply with, but everyone tries their damndest to avoid.

[Clove]

When it doesn't break the law; it's planning.
When it does; it's fruad.

Jeezus Keller, didn't they burn out your ethics nerve in law school?

[Ignot]

Oh, I agree. Tax planning is a gigantic industry. It's how I make my living.

But what I kind of want to get at, and I likely wasn't clear, is whether that is a bad thing. Is it tax planning or tax cheating? I am currently working on a series of transaction that legally produce an unnatural result of, at the end of the day, putting about 2 billion dollars of tax basis onto 5 year depreciable assets. It's all within the letter of the law, but do I or the client have a moral (patriotic?) duty to not engage in legal behavior that has such unnatural results?

If I don't have an obligation -- where does that obligation begin? When I have in-kind income? When I have knowledge of that in-kind income? I just see tax evasion or tax planning as a widespread practice that it perhaps as morally offensive as speeding. It's just a series of regulations that we're legally bound to comply with, but everyone tries their damndest to avoid.

I would hope you would feel an obligation to inform your clients of the possible ramifications of the transactions. If it's in the law then that's fine, if it's borderline and people just aren't getting busted then you should discuss that with your clients. Like self-directed IRA's for example. You can't hold real estate in an IRA and this essentially gets around that. The IRS isn't attacking people yet but they can at anytime, 5 years from now, 10 years, whatever. I think there are lots of excellent and important ways to manage tax liability but if you find yourself asking if this is appropriate/borderline then you should probably think twice about it.

[Keller]

When it doesn't break the law; it's planning.
When it does; it's fruad.

Jeezus Keller, didn't they burn out your ethics nerve in law school?

What is "the law"? Go to a dozen law firms tax departments and you'll find a dozen interpretations of what happens when you have a dividend equivalent redemption in a partnership. Does it produce tax-exempt income? No law, but we think it does. How is that tax-exempt income allocated? According to the partnership agreement. What is the allocation has uneconomic effects? Well, maybe not according to the partnership agreement. Etc.

[Keller]

I would hope you would feel an obligation to inform your clients of the possible ramifications of the transactions. If it's in the law then that's fine, if it's borderline and people just aren't getting busted then you should discuss that with your clients. Like self-directed IRA's for example. You can't hold real estate in an IRA and this essentially gets around that. The IRS isn't attacking people yet but they can at anytime, 5 years from now, 10 years, whatever. I think there are lots of excellent and important ways to manage tax liability but if you find yourself asking if this is appropriate/borderline then you should probably think twice about it.

We routinely write 300+ page opinions for clients. They are intimately aware of our opinions and rely on them to avoid penalties.

[Ignot]

When it doesn't break the law; it's planning.
When it does; it's fruad.



I wish it were that cut and dry. You almost have to move on the side of caution because the IRS is one big Mafia ready to screw you at any chance they get.

[crb]

I got this letter from the IRS saying I had failed to make a monthly withholding payment (employer side) in July, but they were going to be kind enough to waive the penalty.

I went back and looked, I made the payment on time through EFTPS. Their computer system.

If they can't keep automated computer transactions tracked right, I don't see how they'll ever catch on to complex stuff. Simplify the tax code.

[Ignot]

I got this letter from the IRS saying I had failed to make a monthly withholding payment (employer side) in July, but they were going to be kind enough to waive the penalty.

I went back and looked, I made the payment on time through EFTPS. Their computer system.

If they can't keep automated computer transactions tracked right, I don't see how they'll ever catch on to complex stuff. Simplify the tax code.

Are you saying the IRS is stupid?

[Jorddyn]

I got this letter from the IRS saying I had failed to make a monthly withholding payment (employer side) in July, but they were going to be kind enough to waive the penalty.

I went back and looked, I made the payment on time through EFTPS. Their computer system.

If they can't keep automated computer transactions tracked right, I don't see how they'll ever catch on to complex stuff. Simplify the tax code.

$20 says they flagged your 941 payment as a 940. Whether that's your fault or theirs - who knows.

[crb]

Obviously inefficient more like it. How do you lose an automated computer payment done through your own system?

[Keller]

Are you saying the IRS is stupid?

I am.

They offer less sophisticated work at pennies on the dollar compared to what attorneys/accountants could get in private firms. The IRS gets the left-overs and the TheEs. Plus the only thing worse than saying at a party, "I am a tax attorney" is saying, "I'm a tax attorney working at the IRS."

[Parkbandit]

I got this letter from the IRS saying I had failed to make a monthly withholding payment (employer side) in July, but they were going to be kind enough to waive the penalty.

I went back and looked, I made the payment on time through EFTPS. Their computer system.

If they can't keep automated computer transactions tracked right, I don't see how they'll ever catch on to complex stuff. Simplify the tax code.

LOL.. I just got one from the State of Florida. They claimed that my payment was different than what they calculated it should be. On the back gave me the details that went like:


Your payment was $100.00

WE calculate your payment should have been : $100.00

Difference (amount you owe) is: $0.00

Penalty for not calculating your taxes correctly: $50.00


I actually had to laugh at it.. then just got angry because now I can't just call them up and tell them they are fucking dumbasses.. I have to write a letter to them and have it in within 2 weeks of the date of the notice.

[Ignot]

I am.

They offer less sophisticated work at pennies on the dollar compared to what attorneys/accountants could get in private firms. The IRS gets the left-overs and the TheEs. Plus the only thing worse than saying at a party, "I am a tax attorney" is saying, "I'm a tax attorney working at the IRS."

Sounds like you are saying the people working for the IRS are stupid. Maybe we disagree but I find the IRS to be very good at making sure they get their money. I'm referring more about loop holes and big fines rather then someone not reporting a small income.

[Jorddyn]

Obviously inefficient more like it. How do you lose an automated computer payment done through your own system?

Again, $20 says they flagged it to your 940. It's not lost, just misappropriated.

[Ignot]

LOL.. I just got one from the State of Florida. They claimed that my payment was different than what they calculated it should be. On the back gave me the details that went like:


Your payment was $100.00

WE calculate your payment should have been : $100.00

Difference (amount you owe) is: $0.00

Penalty for not calculating your taxes correctly: $50.00


I actually had to laugh at it.. then just got angry because now I can't just call them up and tell them they are fucking dumbasses.. I have to write a letter to them and have it in within 2 weeks of the date of the notice.

lol. MAFIA!

[Jorddyn]

I am.

They offer less sophisticated work at pennies on the dollar compared to what attorneys/accountants could get in private firms. The IRS gets the left-overs and the TheEs. Plus the only thing worse than saying at a party, "I am a tax attorney" is saying, "I'm a tax attorney working at the IRS."

Try "I'm an accountant at a meat processing facility." Works well at dinner parties, especially when I go into detail on the meat spigot (spits out the stuff that goes into bolo/hot dogs).

[Parkbandit]

Simplify the tax codes. If Timothy Geitner can't figure it out and he's supposed to be some expert, then how the fuck does anyone believe Tom Smith down the road is going to be able to do his?

Make it simple.. make it fair.. close the loopholes.

[Keller]

Sounds like you are saying the people working for the IRS are stupid. Maybe we disagree but I find the IRS to be very good at making sure they get their money. I'm referring more about loop holes and big fines rather then someone not reporting a small income.

I guess we disagree then. I think the IRS doesn't catch 90% of abuses and is highly successful when it finds the 10% because they are so patently offensive that even the IRS could spot it.

[Clove]

What is "the law"? Go to a dozen law firms tax departments and you'll find a dozen interpretations of what happens when you have a dividend equivalent redemption in a partnership. Does it produce tax-exempt income? No law, but we think it does. How is that tax-exempt income allocated? According to the partnership agreement. What is the allocation has uneconomic effects? Well, maybe not according to the partnership agreement. Etc.Obviously they don't care enough about it to write a law. Even some fairly straight-forward statutes can have interpretations; that's what makes courts, judges and lawyers an unfortunate necessity.


I wish it were that cut and dry. You almost have to move on the side of caution because the IRS is one big Mafia ready to screw you at any chance they get.I'm qualified to file about 80% of US returns. In most cases it really is that cut and dry and the IRS really isn't the mafia. They keep their information up to date, communicate clearly in a timely fashion and they are often willing to negotiate.

The IRS Department of Collections on the other hand, well they have a motto, which I've often quoted:

They had their chance. Now they have us.


Obviously inefficient more like it. How do you lose an automated computer payment done through your own system?Obviously if it is computerized it's infallible. I mean banks don't make computer errors. Businesses don't make computer errors. And they don't even have as much practice as the IRS which processes millions of filings a year.

[Keller]

Simplify the tax codes. If Timothy Geitner can't figure it out and he's supposed to be some expert, then how the fuck does anyone believe Tom Smith down the road is going to be able to do his?

Make it simple.. make it fair.. close the loopholes.

I'd suggest that 60% of the complication in the code comes from the distinction and tax difference between capital and ordinary income. Further, I promise that is a modest estimation.

Do you propose we tax them at the same rate? I would love to see that happen.

[Clove]

Federal Sales Tax.

[Keller]

Federal Sales Tax.

And you thought Daschle's failure to report in-kind income was a problem . . .

[Parkbandit]

Federal Sales Tax.

http://www.fairtax.org

I'm for it.

[TheEschaton]

I am.

They offer less sophisticated work at pennies on the dollar compared to what attorneys/accountants could get in private firms. The IRS gets the left-overs and the TheEs. Plus the only thing worse than saying at a party, "I am a tax attorney" is saying, "I'm a tax attorney working at the IRS."

LOL @ me ever working for the IRS. Tax bores me so badly it makes me violent.

My philosophy is that paying taxes is a duty imposed by the duties of society in general. Whether they're too high or too low a duty is debatable, obviously, but I think trying to avoid them simply for purposes of making more money seems like one wants the benefits of operating in society, with none of the responsibilities.

And they don't burn out your ethics nerve - they ask you very slyly to give it up through your own free will. If you say no, they can't take it away from you!

-TheE-

[Ignot]

Obviously they don't care enough about it to write a law. Even some fairly straight-forward statutes can have interpretations; that's what makes courts, judges and lawyers an unfortunate necessity.



Right. There is a gray area. Mess in the gray area and the IRS can get you. They can take away your gains, impose high fees, etc.




I'm qualified to file about 80% of US returns. In most cases it really is that cut and dry and the IRS really isn't the mafia. They keep their information up to date, communicate clearly in a timely fashion and they are often willing to negotiate.



Okay. Nobody disagrees with you here but so what? We are talking about tax laws and ethics not filing a tax return.

[Clove]

And you thought Daschle's failure to report in-kind income was a problem . . . Inorite, they never caught him...

[Clove]

Right. There is a gray area. Mess in the gray area and the IRS can get you. They can take away your gains, impose high fees, etc.If the judge agrees with their case, yes.


Okay. Nobody disagrees with you here but so what? We are talking about tax laws and ethics not filing a tax return.Then why did you mention it?

[Keller]

LOL @ me ever working for the IRS. Tax bores me so badly it makes me violent.

I didn't mean that you'd work for the IRS as much as I meant you're the type of person who will take a public interest job over a firm job.

Of people who work in the public sector, I'd say 15-20% had firm options while the rest just couldn't get a firm job and end up working for the govt.

[Keller]

If the judge agrees with their case, yes.

And it was an unreasonable interpretation of the law.

Otherwise it's just the liability + interest.

[Ignot]

Then why did you mention it?

:banghead:

[Clove]

:banghead:Look man, I said in most cases it was pretty cut and dry. You said it wasn't. When discussing ethical tax-filing we're talking about- tax filings. And in most cases filings are pretty straight-forward, as is the IRS.

If you're going to screw around in grey areas, make sure you have a solid rationale and a reserve to pay the interest.

[LordBacl]

What I really need to know is, can I still cheat on my taxes? My 17 dependents need to know!

[Parkbandit]

What I really need to know is, can I still cheat on my taxes? My 17 dependents need to know!

Anyone can cheat on their taxes.. but only a few can do it and still get appointed to high level government positions.

[Jorddyn]

What I really need to know is, can I still cheat on my taxes? My 17 dependents need to know!

It was much easier until 1986 when you had to have a SS# for all dependents.

Millions of children disappeared that year. Unfortunately, there was no AMW to track down the perpetrator of this horrific mass kidnapping.

[Keller]

Anyone can cheat on their taxes.. but only a few can do it and still get appointed to high level government positions.

Are you naive enough to think that Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, etc didn't have confirmed appointees who had not paid their correct tax liability?

I think the distinction lies in the vetting process the Obama administration puts appointees through versus the vetting process other administrations have put their appointees through.

[Keller]

It was much easier until 1986 when you had to have a SS# for all dependents.

Millions of children disappeared that year. Unfortunately, there was no AMW to track down the perpetrator of this horrific mass kidnapping.

That was definitely one of the funniest moments in Intro to Personal Income Tax. That's fucking classic game theory right there.

[Clove]

It was much easier until 1986 when you had to have a SS# for all dependents.

Millions of children disappeared that year. Unfortunately, there was no AMW to track down the perpetrator of this horrific mass kidnapping.My ferrets all have SSN's.

[Keller]

My ferrets all have SSN's.

SSN's what?

[Clove]

SSN's what?
Social Security Numbers n00b.

[Keller]

Social Security Numbers n00b.

Social Security Number's what?

[CrystalTears]

Social Security Number's what?
WTF are you asking?

[Keller]

The SSNs possess something that his ferrets have. I am just curious what it is.

[Jorddyn]

WTF are you asking?

He's mocking the inappropriate apostrophe use.

[CrystalTears]

A pulse and a residence in his house?

Oh I see. Nevermind. I'm known to do that too, since it looks weird to me to put an S after an acronym.

[Clove]

The SSNs possess something that his ferrets have. I am just curious what it is.My ferrets (all, each, one and all) have SSN's.

I'm naming the next one "Joe" for effect, too.

[Keller]

He's mocking the inappropriate apostrophe use.

It's not often that Clove makes a mistake.

[Keller]

A pulse and a residence in his house?

Oh I see. Nevermind. I'm known to do that too, since it looks weird to me to put an S after an acronym.

I once wrote a paper where I referred to the 1980's and 1990's. The professor knocked off 3 out of 10 points for grammar for that mistake alone. Since that point, I've become sensitive to it.

[Clove]

I once wrote a paper where I referred to the 1980's and 1990's. The professor knocked off 3 out of 10 points for grammar for that mistake alone. Since that point, I've become sensitive to it.Don't take your scholastic hazing out on me, pal.

[Parkbandit]

WASHINGTON (AP) - Nancy Killefer, who failed for a year and a half to pay employment taxes on household help, has withdrawn her candidacy to be the first chief performance officer for the federal government, the White House said Tuesday.
Killefer was the second major Obama administration nominee to withdraw and the third to have tax problems complicate their nomination after President Barack Obama announced their selection.

"Nancy Killefer has decided to withdraw her nomination, and we accepted her withdrawal," Tommy Vietor, a White House spokesman, said Tuesday. The 55-year-old executive with consulting giant McKinsey & Co., was expected to explain her reasons for pulling out later in the day.

When her selection was announced by Obama on Jan. 7, The Associated Press disclosed that in 2005 the District of Columbia government had filed a $946.69 tax lien on her home for failure to pay unemployment compensation tax on household help.

Since then, administration officials refused to answer questions about the tax error, which she resolved five months after the lien was filed. Obama's first choice for commerce secretary, New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, took his name out of consideration when his confirmation appeared headed toward complications because of a grand jury investigation over how state contracts were issued to political donors.

More recently, Timothy Geithner was confirmed as Treasury secretary despite belatedly paying $34,000 in income taxes, and Tom Daschle is still waiting to see if his late payment of more than $128,000 in income taxes will harm his nomination to be health and human services secretary.

On paper, Killefer brought impressive credentials to the two jobs Obama selected her for: deputy director for management at the Office of Management and Budget, which requires Senate confirmation, and a new White House post, chief performance officer for the entire federal government, which does not require confirmation.

Killefer oversees McKinsey's management consulting for government clients. During 1997-2000 in the Clinton administration, Killefer was assistant Treasury secretary for management. As such she was the chief financial officer and chief operating officer for the Treasury and its 160,000 employees and led a modernization of its largest component, the Internal Revenue Service.

But for nearly a month, the administration had refused to answer how its choice to make government workers more efficient and more responsive had bungled her household payroll taxes.

The AP reported that on March 7, 2005, the D.C. Department of Employment Services slapped a tax lien on her home in the tony Wesley Heights neighborhood. The local government alleged that just three years after she left the high-powered Treasury post she began to fail to pay unemployment compensation tax for a household employee. And she failed to make the required quarterly payments for a year and half, whereupon a lien for $946.69 was placed on her home.

That sum included $298 in unpaid taxes, $48.69 in interest and $600 in penalties. The lien was filed March 7, 2005, but Killefer didn't get the lien extinguished for almost five months, not until July 29.

During that period, Killefer and her husband, an economics professor, had a teenage son and daughter, but she had two nannies and a personal assistant to run her life when she was on the road, she told Harvard business students back then.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9646DBG0&show_article=1


Seriously? What the fuck is the pre-requisite to get nominated to work for Obama.. proving you can screw the IRS? What's that now.. 4?

Not sure if this is more of a statement for revising a very fucked up tax code (although.. paying for employment taxes is not that difficult to figure out..) or that there are so many people not doing their 'patriotic' duty and paying their fair share of taxes.

So I guess Obama will get on the air again and state that this was just another "honest" mistake?

[Sean of the Thread]

Uhm didn't read the thread but I'm going to attempt to file this year just for what little return I can get and maybe EIC.

Keller knows my situation or maybe he forgot but I think the worst they can do is just keep my return. I hope.

[Parkbandit]

Holy shit.. the more I read about Killefer.. the more entertaining her story becomes.


WASHINGTON (AP) — Nancy Killefer, the management consultant chosen by President-elect Barack Obama to make federal agencies work better for the public, has a lot of experience trying to improve the agency taxpayers love to hate, the Internal Revenue Service.

The longtime senior partner at the giant global consulting firm McKinsey & Co. has previously worked at the Treasury to modernize the IRS and on a public-private oversight board to push the tax agency to more aggressively pursue corporate and high-income tax cheats.

Killefer returns to government to take a new White House job Obama created — chief performance officer — to make federal programs more efficient and more responsive to those they serve and to help eliminate those that don't work.

With the 55-year-old mother of two at his side, Obama told a news conference Wednesday that Killefer's goal will be no less than to "restore the American people's confidence in their government, that it's on their side, spending their money wisely to meet their family's needs."

Killefer was astute enough not to promise overnight success. "Most of the operational issues that the government faces today have developed over decades and will take time to address," she told the news conference. "But there is an urgency to begin now."

Key people who worked with her during when she served as the Clinton administration's assistant treasury secretary for management during 1997-2000 were quick to praise her skills.

"She's got a good understanding of how government works and what the challenges are," said John Koskinen, now the conservator trying to overhaul Freddie Mac. As deputy Office of Management and Budget director for management under Clinton, Koskinen worked with her on Treasury Department reforms. Later, he also worked with her to be sure Treasury and IRS computers weren't flummoxed by the new millennium's arrival in 2000.

While serving as chief financial officer and chief operating officer for the Treasury and its 160,000 employees, Killefer led a major modernization of the IRS.

But even an experienced financial expert like Killefer is susceptible to tax errors: Four years ago, the District of Columbia slapped a $946 tax lien on her home for a few months until she paid back unemployment compensation tax for her personal employees.

As he left office, Clinton named Killefer to a five-year term on the IRS Oversight Board, a group of outside experts and internal officials that Congress established after taxpayer mistreatment scandals came to light in the late 1990s.

The board was to regularly assess IRS practices and spending for Congress, but as its chairman in 2004, Killefer went further. On behalf of the board, she presented Congress an alternative IRS budget to the one submitted by President George W. Bush.

She proposed more money to bring an additional 1,000 cases against high-income tax cheats and to boost by 42 percent the audits of corporations that try to dodge taxes. And she said the extra spending would ensure IRS could continue to answer at least eight of every 10 calls from individuals taxpayers seeking help.

"That's encouraging," said Adam Hughes of OMB Watch, a private group that scrutinizes federal management. Her message addressed the trends in IRS enforcement that OMB Watch found disturbing, Hughes said.

From a management reform perspective, Hughes was also pleased by the advice Killefer gave Harvard Business School students in 2004. She told the students that consultants need to focus on operational people below the CEO and get to know them as people. "Sit on your hands if you have to, but consulting is 75 percent listening," she said.

Hughes said that attitude would help, because federal workers now think top officials don't listen to them and set up irrelevant performance management systems.

Killefer arrived at McKinsey in 1979 with a new MBA in finance from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Secretive as a spy agency, McKinsey never divulges its client lists, but Killefer has said she was drawn to consumer and retail industries and has served clients in packaged goods, hotels, restaurants, pharmaceuticals and other businesses.

When she returned to McKinsey she shifted her emphasis. She now heads the firm's public sector practice, which in the United States primarily works with the federal government, McKinsey spokeswoman Yolande Daeninck said.

Even with that high-powered job, Killefer told the Harvard students she rarely worked weekends and always made time for her family: husband Robert Cumby, who is a Georgetown University economics professor, and a teenage son and daughter. But she could afford an enviable support system: two nannies and an assistant who runs her life when she's on the road.

Those personal employees apparently played a role in an embarrassing toe-stub for a former chief financial officer of the Treasury. In 2005, the District of Columbia placed a $946.69 tax lien on her home for unemployment compensation taxes she had failed to pay. Over a year and a half, she had failed to pay $298 in taxes (the rest was interest and penalties), and she cleared up the debt within a few months.

"She did make an error having to do with district unemployment tax payment, but it has been corrected," Obama transition spokesman Tommy Vietor said.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gfS4MpLstbt1vSBTODBVsglt8gnQD95IRUC00

[Jorddyn]

Seriously? What the fuck is the pre-requisite to get nominated to work for Obama.. proving you can screw the IRS? What's that now.. 4?

Not sure if this is more of a statement for revising a very fucked up tax code (although.. paying for employment taxes is not that difficult to figure out..) or that there are so many people not doing their 'patriotic' duty and paying their fair share of taxes.

So I guess Obama will get on the air again and state that this was just another "honest" mistake?

Given that she only failed to pay her 940 (Fed Unemployment), I'd file it as an honest-but-stupid mistake. If she was truly trying to avoid/hide the payments to her household staff, she would have skipped the 941 (FICA/Fed withholding) as well. Not only would the total of the tax be higher on that, by filing a 941 she was telling the IRS that she paid wages and therefore had to file a 940. Only a complete and total idiot would do this on purpose. It'd be like taking a cart of groceries through the checkout, paying for them, but arguing that you didn't buy anything so you shouldn't have to pay sales tax.

Had she skipped paying both the 941 and 940, I'd file it as something much different.

Edited to add: Working public accounting, I had several clients who wouldn't even look over their returns - they'd just sign them, sign however many checks I needed, and leave. I would then fill out the checks accordingly and mail them with their returns. These people (my clients) were well off, but had nowhere near the amount of money that you see bouncing around Washington. I think as the technology of the IRS continues to improve, we'll see more of this. LOTS more.

[Keller]

Seriously? What the fuck is the pre-requisite to get nominated to work for Obama.. proving you can screw the IRS? What's that now.. 4?

Not sure if this is more of a statement for revising a very fucked up tax code (although.. paying for employment taxes is not that difficult to figure out..) or that there are so many people not doing their 'patriotic' duty and paying their fair share of taxes.

So I guess Obama will get on the air again and state that this was just another "honest" mistake?

Or that Obama puts his nominees through an extensive vetting process that other administrations have not submitted their nominees to.

[Jorddyn]

Or that Obama puts his nominees through an extensive vetting process that other administrations have not submitted their nominees to.

Or that the matching by the IRS has improved significantly over the past few years, and will continue to do so.

[Kembal]

I'm confused. $946 seems so small of a tax problem that there's gotta be more to this story. I mean, Daschle had a problem of over $100k! (I didn't think he was a good nominee to begin with, so the tax issue is unimportant to me. I think there's better people to run HHS)

[Sean of the Thread]

All I know is I haven't filed in 5 years but there is also no trace of any of my income until this year.. er past year. But the last time I didn't file I owed about 3k I think and didn't file.

never heard a word from them.

[Cephalopod]

never heard a word from them.

Knock, knock.

[Parkbandit]

Given that she only failed to pay her 940 (Fed Unemployment), I'd file it as an honest-but-stupid mistake. If she was truly trying to avoid/hide the payments to her household staff, she would have skipped the 941 (FICA/Fed withholding) as well. Not only would the total of the tax be higher on that, by filing a 941 she was telling the IRS that she paid wages and therefore had to file a 940. Only a complete and total idiot would do this on purpose. It'd be like taking a cart of groceries through the checkout, paying for them, but arguing that you didn't buy anything so you shouldn't have to pay sales tax.

Had she skipped paying both the 941 and 940, I'd file it as something much different.

Edited to add: Working public accounting, I had several clients who wouldn't even look over their returns - they'd just sign them, sign however many checks I needed, and leave. I would then fill out the checks accordingly and mail them with their returns. These people (my clients) were well off, but had nowhere near the amount of money that you see bouncing around Washington. I think as the technology of the IRS continues to improve, we'll see more of this. LOTS more.


I guess you missed the irony of the nominee:


The longtime senior partner at the giant global consulting firm McKinsey & Co. has previously worked at the Treasury to modernize the IRS and on a public-private oversight board to push the tax agency to more aggressively pursue corporate and high-income tax cheats.


Then again.. I had to explain shaved heads to you yesterday.. so.. yea.

[Jorddyn]

I guess you missed the irony of the nominee:

I didn't miss the irony of it. I still would classify it as an honest mistake.


Then again.. I had to explain shaved heads to you yesterday.. so.. yea.

Even with your explanation, I'd call that a stretch.

[Parkbandit]

Well holy shit.. Tom Daschle actually did the right thing and dropped out.

Good news imo.

[Parkbandit]

I didn't miss the irony of it. I still would classify it as an honest mistake.



Even with your explanation, I'd call that a stretch.

I suppose you have a better explanation? OR.. you could just read Faent's post after that.. explaining it himself that I was dead on?

[Jorddyn]

I suppose you have a better explanation?

Because like most republican thugs with shaved heads, you'd rather just punch first and try to converse later.

This brings to my head the picture of a guy in his mid-20s, shaved head, driving a beat up truck, beer cans in the back, searching for a fight. Skin head? Not so much.



OR.. you could just read Faent's post after that.. explaining it himself that I was dead on?



Jorddyn picked up on 98% of the content I was aiming for. There's a chance you're a member of: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_Against_Racial_Prejudice


He did? Maybe that's the missing 2%.

[Parkbandit]

You missed his point. We get it.

:yawn:

[Nieninque]

I love how certain companies/businesses at this time in the economic climate are bitching about how government is not doing enough to help them out and should be providing more subsidy to help them through these hard times, yet at every opportunity they seek loopholes to the tax system that means they are not contributing to a fund that they now want to dip into to save their sorry arses.

Cunts, the lot of them.

[Ignot]

I love how certain companies/businesses at this time in the economic climate are bitching about how government is not doing enough to help them out and should be providing more subsidy to help them through these hard times, yet at every opportunity they seek loopholes to the tax system that means they are not contributing to a fund that they now want to dip into to save their sorry arses.

Cunts, the lot of them.

I agree, someone should pull down their knickers and give them a rotten good spankin! :cul:

[Keller]

I love how certain companies/businesses at this time in the economic climate are bitching about how government is not doing enough to help them out and should be providing more subsidy to help them through these hard times, yet at every opportunity they seek loopholes to the tax system that means they are not contributing to a fund that they now want to dip into to save their sorry arses.

Cunts, the lot of them.

I agree.

[DeV]

I agree, someone should pull down their knickers and give them a rotten good spankin! :cul:Oh. Really. :D

[Jorddyn]

I agree.

:lol:

[Keller]

:lol:

I do!

My job is great because it is intellectually challenging and a ton of fun. Not because I really want to help these schmucks.

[Parkbandit]

Or that Obama puts his nominees through an extensive vetting process that other administrations have not submitted their nominees to.

Nice attempt at spin.. but if Obama had vetted him properly, he would have known about all the tax issues and he wouldn't have nominated some of these people in the first place.

Even Obama disagrees with you.. since he apologized for the mistakes yesterday.

[Methais]

So now we know. President Obama has had a discrete and effective plan to raise federal revenue all along. This is how was sure he could operate under a pay-go model. The plan is simple, yet ingenious. He targets wealthy individuals who filled inaccurate tax returns, cheating the federal government out of tens of thousands of dollars. Then he just nominates them for cabinet positions.

All kidding aside, there are two points I think are worth making.

First, a couple months ago there was a collective groan from prospective Obama cabinet employees over the extensive and elaborate vetting process. It was widely criticized as too invasive of the individuals privacy at the most, and too daunting a collection of information at the least. But what we've come to find out is that, contrary to prior administrations vetting process, it has produced at least two high profile tax cheats.

Now, is this the result of Obama cabinet members being sleazy? Or is it the result of an extraordinary vetting process that has just uncovered an accepted, if not illegal, convention of individuals trying to save on their federal tax liability.

Second, and quite related to the first, is who is more ingenuous in this situation. Is it the high-tax liberals who evaded paying their own tax or the low-tax conservatives who criticize these individuals for paying fewer taxes? I'd posit that tax cheats are not few and far between, but that all of us has at one point or another not paid our literal liability -- whether intentional or unintentional. Is that wrong? Is it our patriotic duty (ahem, Mr. Biden) to pay our taxes? Does that mean we're unpatriotic if we don't report every in-kind income source? I don't know.

BUT THEY WERE HONEST MISTAKES, ALL THREE OF THEM! LIBERALS NEVER LIE OR CHEAT OMG!!!!!!!!!111

[Clove]

On a related note, I hear California's sending out IOUs (happy Keller) to residents that are due State tax rebates. True? Untrue? Who knows, but it's a hilarious idea.

[Stanley Burrell]

I love how certain companies/businesses at this time in the economic climate are bitching about how government is not doing enough to help them out and should be providing more subsidy to help them through these hard times, yet at every opportunity they seek loopholes to the tax system that means they are not contributing to a fund that they now want to dip into to save their sorry arses.

Cunts, the lot of them.

Yeah! The IMF and the WTO suck huge ones. I hate them. But not because they use foreign investment to power a factory in Jamaica for five years and then drop an economic pay-us-back-in-blood bomb on all of Kingston.

Nay.

I hate them, because, in general, three-letter abbreviations seem unnecessary. Soon, we'll be so lazy we'll have to use abbreviations for one-word ... words. And the UK and the US will just be the U. And Communist R & C will invade and make us all feudal serfs and it will be Obama's fault because he's in bed with the white man and didn't donate a testicle to the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

Your head asplode.

[Parkbandit]

Are you fucking kidding me?

A Senate committee today abruptly canceled a session to consider President Obama's nomination of Rep. Hilda Solis to be labor secretary in the wake of a report saying that her husband yesterday paid about $6,400 to settle tax liens against his business -- including liens that had been outstanding for as long as 16 years.

The report, by USA Today, came just before the Senate's Health Education Labor and Pensions Committee was slated to meet to consider Solis's nomination, which had been delayed by questions over her role on the board of the pro-labor organization American Rights at Work. A source said that committee members did not learn about the tax issue until today.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/02/05/solis_senate_session_canceled.html?hpid=topnews

Seriously? Here's a fucking idea.. if you can't fucking file your fucking taxes like every fucking citizen should, you shouldn't fucking be in our fucking government. IRS should audit anyone in government, running for government position or getting nominated for a government position.

FUCK.

[Methais]

Clearly the government needs Irwin R. Shyster to clean house.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/images/irs_action_figure_2_1.jpg

Terry Tate: Senate Enforcer wouldn't hurt either.