Rice: People will soon praise Bush

[Daniel]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/12/28/rice.administration/index.html?iref=mpstoryview


"

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says "there is no greater honor than to serve this country,"

"So we can sit here and talk about the long record, but what I would say to you is that this president has faced tougher circumstances than perhaps at any time since the end of World War II, and he has delivered policies that are going to stand the test of time," Rice said in an interview that aired on CBS' "Sunday Morning."

The secretary of state brushed off reports that suggest the United States' image is suffering abroad. She praised the administration's ability to change the conversation in the Middle East.

"This isn't a popularity contest. I'm sorry, it isn't. What the administration is responsible to do is to make good choices about Americans' interests and values in the long run -- not for today's headlines, but for history's judgment," she said.

"And I am quite certain that when the final chapters are written and it's clear that Saddam Hussein's Iraq is gone in favor of an Iraq that is favorable to the future of the Middle East; when the history is written of a U.S.-China relationship that is better than it's ever been; an India relationship that is deeper and better than it's ever been; a relationship with Brazil and other countries of the left of Latin America, better than it's ever been ...

"When one looks at what we've been able to do in terms of changing the conversation in the Middle East about democracy and values, this administration will be judged well, and I'll wait for history's judgment and not today's headlines."

Asked by CBS' Rita Braver why some former diplomats say Americans are disliked around the world, Rice said that's "just not true."

"I know what U.S. policy has achieved. And so I don't know what diplomats you're talking to, but look at the record," she said.

Rice said she wasn't bothered by criticism about her or the administration's polices, saying if a person in her business is not being criticized, "you're not doing something right."

"I'm here to make tough choices, and this president is here to make tough choices, and we have. And yes, I -- there are some things that I would do very differently if I had it to do over again. You don't have that luxury. You have to make the choices and take the positions that you do at the time," she said.

Asked about historians who say Bush is one of the worst presidents, Rice said those "aren't very good historians."

"If you're making historical judgments before an administration is already out -- even out of office, and if you're trying to make historical judgments when the nature of the Middle East is still to be determined, and when one cannot yet judge the effects of decisions that this President has taken on what the Middle East will become -- I mean, for goodness' sakes, good historians are still writing books about George Washington. Good historians are certainly still writing books about Harry Truman," she said.

Rice, 54, said she has enjoyed working in the Bush administration during the last eight years, first as national security adviser, then as secretary of state.

"There is no greater honor than to serve this country," she said, adding that there is also no greater challenge.

Rice said when the new administration takes over, she plans to return to the Hoover Institution at Stanford University and write two books -- one on foreign policy and one about her parents.


---

Comment reserved until Jan 20th.

[g++]

Jeez what a suck up its almost like she works for him or something.

[Methais]

She's probably right, especially once the Obama crew takes over and fucks everything up beyond repair.

[Daniel]

To: G++

I can't tell if you're joking or not, but as a civil servant of the executive branch she works for the people of the United States.

[g++]

Joking, but Bush could replace her so she prolly wont say what she really thinks till later in one of the books shes writing.

Also Im going to be in DC for Obamas big day, you DC folks doing anything?

[Parkbandit]

To: G++

I can't tell if you're joking or not, but as a civil servant of the executive branch she works for the people of the United States.


Actually, she doesn't. She works for the President as her position was an appointment and not an election. Granted, she has to be nominated/approved.. but it's not an elected position.

[Daniel]

Actually, she doesn't. She works for the President as her position was an appointment and not an election. Granted, she has to be nominated/approved.. but it's not an elected position.

No shit? She's also confirmed by Congress. That doesn't change my point. She still works for the people of the United States.

[Drew]

No shit? She's also confirmed by Congress. That doesn't change my point. She still works for the people of the United States.



So does the President. I don't see how it's working against the people of the United States to say the President put in place policies that will stand the test of time.


I view Bush as a Truman like figure. A galvanizing figure whose enemies were able to paint a negative picture of, who was roundly despised when he left office, but who is now considered to be one of our better Presidents.

[Back]

I view Bush as a Truman like figure. A galvanizing figure whose enemies were able to paint a negative picture of, who was roundly despised when he left office, but who is now considered to be one of our better Presidents.

You forgot the italics.

[Revalos]

I think Bush is going to be seen more like Hoover, honestly. Basically the loser of a game of hot potato played by a series of governmental fuck-ups going back to Johnson or Kennedy that led us to this point.

He really didn't do anything evil or horrendous on his own, he just chose a horrible cabinet to deal with this fallout.

What is funny is that Obama, whom I voted for, is going to get treated like a Kennedy for quite a while. Everyone remember 2002-2003 for Bush? Until Iraq really started to bog down, he was doing pretty good. Again, he chose bad advisors, or at least he chose to listen to those bad advisors.

But honestly, in a purely selfish way, I owe the guy my future career. All the upper level guys I work for are leaving when he leaves office because they are too scared of the change Obama theoretically will bring. This opens up a massive vacuum for ambitious folks to fill. And then I'll get to be one of those guys 30 years from now.

[Daniel]

So does the President. I don't see how it's working against the people of the United States to say the President put in place policies that will stand the test of time.


Is that what I said?



I view Bush as a Truman like figure. A galvanizing figure whose enemies were able to paint a negative picture of, who was roundly despised when he left office, but who is now considered to be one of our better Presidents.


That's nice.

[Parkbandit]

No shit? She's also confirmed by Congress. That doesn't change my point. She still works for the people of the United States.


"The People" can't fire her.. the President can. See Rumsfeld for further illustration... if it were up to "the people", he would have been gone by 2003.

[Sean of the Thread]

What is funny is that Obama, whom I voted for, is going to get treated like a Kennedy for quite a while.

Thus far there are really only few similarities in being minorities to gain office.


Can't compare him to Kennedy any until we see what he does imho. It's quite a leap.

[Daniel]

"The People" can't fire her.. the President can. See Rumsfeld for further illustration... if it were up to "the people", he would have been gone by 2003.

You are obviously daft. The Secretary of State promotes the interest of the American People abroad. Not the President. In government, someone having the authority to fire you or not fire you doesn't neccessarily mean that they are "your boss".

If that were the sole criteria for authority than the "Boss" of the President would be Congress as they do have the authority to fire the President.

See how silly that sounds?


The point being is that the Secretary of State or anybody else in the executive branch of the government should be doing what is right for the American people and not blindly following the person who appoints them. That is a skewed perspective that is really the antithesis of what our country should be about.

[Gan]

Yea, watch what happens if Hillary acts contrary to Obama's interests next year...

[Parkbandit]

You are obviously daft. The Secretary of State promotes the interest of the American People abroad. Not the President. In government, someone having the authority to fire you or not fire you doesn't neccessarily mean that they are "your boss".

If that were the sole criteria for authority than the "Boss" of the President would be Congress as they do have the authority to fire the President.

See how silly that sounds?


The point being is that the Secretary of State or anybody else in the executive branch of the government should be doing what is right for the American people and not blindly following the person who appoints them. That is a skewed perspective that is really the antithesis of what our country should be about.


While I realize your typical reaction is to defend your previously stupid position.. it's still factually incorrect. It's cute and sweet to think that Rice works for the American People (GO PEOPLES!!), but she works directly for the President of the United States who can fire her for any reason he sees fit.

Whether or not it is what our country "should be about" is a topic for another discussion.

[Parkbandit]

Thus far there are really only few similarities in being minorities to gain office.


Can't compare him to Kennedy any until we see what he does imho. It's quite a leap.

Have you not been watching the "news" lately? Obamalot man.. Obamalot.

Much like Kennedy, Obama is loved by the media and will go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents ever. What exactly did Kennedy do that was so fantastic to garner him such high support? He was in office less than 2 years, but is generally in the top 10 greatest Presidents of all time. Kennedy was largely responsible for the US involvement in Vietnam, the Bay of Pig abortion and the Great Frontier, which became the groundwork for the Great Society under Johnson.

All Obama has to do is not pull a Jimmy Carter and piss off the liberals in Congress and he'll be top 10 President as well.

[ClydeR]

Much like Kennedy, Obama is loved by the media and will go down in history as one of the greatest Presidents ever. What exactly did Kennedy do that was so fantastic to garner him such high support? He was in office less than 2 years, but is generally in the top 10 greatest Presidents of all time. Kennedy was largely responsible for the US involvement in Vietnam, the Bay of Pig abortion and the Great Frontier, which became the groundwork for the Great Society under Johnson.

Kennedy is remembered more fondly than he otherwise would have been because he was assassinated. We can only guess what his legacy would have been like if he had served a full four or eight years.

[Parkbandit]

Kennedy is remembered more fondly than he otherwise would have been because he was assassinated. We can only guess what his legacy would have been like if he had served a full four or eight years.

Fantastic. really.

You should stick to your really, really bad impersonation of Colbert because it hasn't gotten old at all. Big deal.. so Colbert is actually funny... doesn't mean you can't keep trying!

/sarcasm

[BigWorm]

Fantastic. really.

You should stick to your really, really bad impersonation of Colbert because it hasn't gotten old at all. Big deal.. so Colbert is actually funny... doesn't mean you can't keep trying!

/sarcasm

Clyde's post actually makes sense, dumbass.

[Drew]

Yes it's the equivalent of stating that the sky is blue.

[Parkbandit]

Clyde's post actually makes sense, dumbass.


I suppose it did have a function... since it probably brought up a good point to a simpleton like you who hadn't realized that JFK was assassinated. My response to his Captain Obvious post was more along the lines from the standpoint of the other 99.5% of the readers here.

I keep believing that people here are semi-intelligent and knowledgeable... but you've once again proved me incorrect. My apologies. :(

[ClydeR]

Yes it's the equivalent of stating that the sky is blue.

Facts about Kennedy's life are the same no matter where or when you consider those facts, but the color of the sky is not always, and has not always been, blue.

[Keller]

While I realize your typical reaction is to defend your previously stupid position.. it's still factually incorrect.

Daniel says: By definition, she works for the people.

PB says: :rofl: No you dumbass ignorant man slut. In reality, she works for the President.

Daniel says: In reality, we're in a recession.

PB says: :rofl: No you dumbass ignorant man slut. By definition, we're not!


It looks like Daniel's got a new leg-warmer for the winter season!

[Allereli]

Also Im going to be in DC for Obamas big day, you DC folks doing anything?

my mom is coming. we'll either be on the mall or at the newseum

[Clove]

If that were the sole criteria for authority than the "Boss" of the President would be Congress as they do have the authority to fire the President.

See how silly that sounds?That would be a fair analogy if Congress also hired the President.

[Back]

Also Im going to be in DC for Obamas big day, you DC folks doing anything?

I’m hitting the streets with my camera for some rogue photojournalism.

[Methais]

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n320/techno_barbarian/HopeiateoftheMasses_04.jpg

[Back]

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n320/techno_barbarian/HopeiateoftheMasses_04.jpg

From a graphic designer’s perspective: I can appreciate the time and effort it took to make. It is decently executed but the sum of it screams photoshop effects. It cheapens the message which is already passe.

Hopeiate of the masses is the cleverest part but the font choice and typesetting are amateur.


This is real Russian propaganda...

http://www.ets.ru/images/pk000075.jpg


Where did you find this, Meth?

[Methais]

From a graphic designer’s perspective: I can appreciate the time and effort it took to make. It is decently executed but the sum of it screams photoshop effects. It cheapens the message which is already passe.

Hopeiate of the masses is the cleverest part but the font choice and typesetting are amateur.


This is real Russian propaganda...

http://www.ets.ru/images/pk000075.jpg


Where did you find this, Meth?

Google image (3rd page). Same place I find everything else. I was actually looking for that demotivational picture of him staring in the mirror and the reflection being Kennedy, with a big DELUSION tag on it. I posted it somewhere on here within the past couple weeks.

[Back]

http://obambi.wordpress.com


http://www.blackfive.net/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/27/obamadance.gif

Heh. Gotta love the internets.

[Methais]

Heh wtf?

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk82/Uppity2008/WORDPRESS/obama-1.gif

[Back]

The dandruff was so bad. But who could approach the unapproachable candidate with this embarrassing fact? Did his groomers miss the snow drifts of scalp skin building on the shoulders of his Sears bought suit?

Then, finally! He noticed! He wiped it away and the crowd cheered in relief.

[Hulkein]

I thought they cheered because they liked his Jay-Z impression.

[Gan]

That would be a fair analogy if Congress also hired the President.

Overall its a semantic argument. And its stupid.

Anyone who works for the government could be said to be 'working for the people', because they're getting paid by the people.

The fact of the matter is that the Secretary of State is a Cabinet level position of the Executive branch that is appointed by the President, and can be removed by the President, whom is the supreme authority for anyone working in the executive branch of our government. The President is the direct supervisor/authority over that specific position (Sec/State) - ergo the Secretary of State works 'for' the President.

Yes, in principal, the Secretary of State works for the people of the United States.

By definition of position, the Secretary of State works 'for' the President of the United States.

Semantics.

[Euler]

maybe transitive? Work for prez who works for people and thus...

[Clove]

Yes, in principal, the Secretary of State works for the people of the United States.

By definition of position, the Secretary of State works 'for' the President of the United States.

Semantics.Exactly. Fail to enforce the President's policies as a cabinet member and you won't be "working for the people" for very long.

[Keller]

I'm not saying I agree with Daniel on this, but it amuses me that you two come out differently on this "semantic" distinction than you did re a recesion.

[Gan]

I find a lot of things here on the PC amusing.

[Revalos]

Not to threadjack but here is some Russian Nashi propaganda I think most of us can get behind.

http://www.allhatnocattle.net/nashi.jpg

[Clove]

I like that bar-code on her hip. Great for tracking ho's.

[Mighty Nikkisaurus]

Not to threadjack but here is some Russian Nashi propaganda I think most of us can get behind.

http://www.allhatnocattle.net/nashi.jpg

I wish my Russian nesting dolls looked like that.

[Daniel]

That would be a fair analogy if Congress also hired the President.

You must have trouble with analogies.

The criteria given was that the President is the boss of the Secretary of State because he can fire them. That would imply that congress is the boss of the President because they have the power to "fire" him\her.

If you want to include the issue of hiring the person then you run into the issue of Congress having the power to confirm and reject Presidential appointees.

At the end of the day, it's a matter of principle. You can sit here and argue a silly semantic argument all you want but the intent was clear and you're simply grasping at straws to win points on the internet. However, it still won't make up for all the ridiculous shit you tried to pass off on these boards during the election season. So, you might just want to give it up.

[Daniel]

Overall its a semantic argument. And its stupid.

Anyone who works for the government could be said to be 'working for the people', because they're getting paid by the people.

The fact of the matter is that the Secretary of State is a Cabinet level position of the Executive branch that is appointed by the President, and can be removed by the President, whom is the supreme authority for anyone working in the executive branch of our government. The President is the direct supervisor/authority over that specific position (Sec/State) - ergo the Secretary of State works 'for' the President.

Yes, in principal, the Secretary of State works for the people of the United States.

By definition of position, the Secretary of State works 'for' the President of the United States.

Semantics.

Okay? I'm sure that's how the R-team views it and it's pretty obvious I feel differently. No surprise I'd be incredulous that someone would feel more of a sense of fidelity towards a man instead of a country, but hey, what do I know what "Service"?

[Parkbandit]

Okay? I'm sure that's how the R-team views it and it's pretty obvious I feel differently. No surprise I'd be incredulous that someone would feel more of a sense of fidelity towards a man instead of a country, but hey, what do I know what "Service"?


Sorry, I don't deal with "feelings".. I am merely pointing out the facts.

Factually speaking, you are incorrect.

Emotionally speaking, you are just as correct as everyone else that 'feels' they are correct.

Sweetie. :)

[Daniel]

Sorry, I don't deal with "feelings".. I am merely pointing out the facts.

Factually speaking, you are incorrect.

Emotionally speaking, you are just as correct as everyone else that 'feels' they are correct.

Sweetie. :)

Lol.

Sense of duty is now "Emotional" and "Touchy-Feely". Yea. My sense of manliness is really hurt by some fat dude on the internet and definitely not things like my combat experience. You sure hurt my feelings there. I really don't know what I'll do with my life now.

Factually, you are still wrong. Your analogy was dumb and it definitely doesn't apply to civil positions. The intent of the law is there. That is why Congress has to confirm the appointment. It's another check vs balance to ensure that a person is not simply serving a man or a party. You can choose to ignore that if you want. Reality hasn't stopped you from believing any of the stupid shit you believe, so I don't know why it would now.

Sweetie.

[Clove]

You must have trouble with analogies.

The criteria given was that the President is the boss of the Secretary of State because he can fire them. That would imply that congress is the boss of the President because they have the power to "fire" him\her.

If you want to include the issue of hiring the person then you run into the issue of Congress having the power to confirm and reject Presidential appointees.While I'm continually impressed with your tenacity, I'm ever disappointed with your rationalizations. Congress does not select AND remove Cabinet members nor do they select AND remove the President.*

Personally I think you're really reaching when you compare a confirmation or impeachment action to an executive appointment, or termination; but that is pure semantics.

Ultimately Gan hit the nail on the head; in a philosophical sense Cabinet members "work for the people" but you and I both know who the Cabinet reports to. You're like that ass that informs the state trooper who pulled him over "I pay your salary, you work for me bub."

Actually, forget what I've written on the subject so far. Daniel you're a government employee; you work for me. STFU or I'll have you fired.

*I stand corrected Congress may impeach Cabinet members and Federal Judges. Even still impeachment is limited and Congress cannot simply remove a Cabinet member for simple poor job performance; only misconduct. It's a fine distinction but an important one.

[Gan]

LOL

[g++]

If you want to include the issue of hiring the person then you run into the issue of Congress having the power to confirm and reject Presidential appointees.


Congress works for me. Muhahahah

[Khariz]

Factually, you are still wrong. Your analogy was dumb and it definitely doesn't apply to civil positions. The intent of the law is there. That is why Congress has to confirm the appointment. It's another check vs balance to ensure that a person is not simply serving a man or a party. You can choose to ignore that if you want. Reality hasn't stopped you from believing any of the stupid shit you believe, so I don't know why it would now.



I'm actually glad people don't serve a man. For example, it comforts me to know that our soldiers have taken an oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" and not to protect the president.

[Parkbandit]

Lol.

Sense of duty is now "Emotional" and "Touchy-Feely". Yea. My sense of manliness is really hurt by some fat dude on the internet and definitely not things like my combat experience. You sure hurt my feelings there. I really don't know what I'll do with my life now.

Factually, you are still wrong. Your analogy was dumb and it definitely doesn't apply to civil positions. The intent of the law is there. That is why Congress has to confirm the appointment. It's another check vs balance to ensure that a person is not simply serving a man or a party. You can choose to ignore that if you want. Reality hasn't stopped you from believing any of the stupid shit you believe, so I don't know why it would now.

Sweetie.


FACT: The Secretary of State is employed by the President and is fired by the President. It's not an elected position. Congress confirms the President's nomination.. but the President still hires the Secretary of State and all other cabinet positions. If the President feels they are not doing a good job, then the President terminates them.

The People didn't have anything to do with the decision except for hiring the President.