The big three

[Khariz]

I think this says it all (make sure to read the fine print):

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9995/bigthreepv9.png

[Clove]

Simpsons did it.

[CrazyEyesMcKinney]

This just goes to show that we as Americans need to get away from cars and either telecommute or bike to work, regardless of local climate, geographic concerns like mountains.

[ClydeR]

Bush speaking earlier today
The terms of the loans will require auto companies to demonstrate how they would become viable. They must pay back all their loans to the government, and show that their firms can earn a profit and achieve a positive net worth. This restructuring will require meaningful concessions from all involved in the auto industry -- management, labor unions, creditors, bondholders, dealers, and suppliers.

In particular, automakers must meet conditions that experts agree are necessary for long-term viability -- including putting their retirement plans on a sustainable footing, persuading bondholders to convert their debt into capital the companies need to address immediate financial shortfalls, and making their compensation competitive with foreign automakers who have major operations in the United States. If a company fails to come up with a viable plan by March 31st, it will be required to repay its federal loans.

More... (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2008/12/20081219.html)

After the first shot (http://forum.gsplayers.com/showpost.php?p=854288&postcount=209), the score is Republicans 1, Unions 0.

The plan is to require auto plants to reduce benefits and wages for workers in Michigan to the same level as workers at the auto plants in Alabama. Not only will it weaken the unions, who always support Democrats, but, after a period of adjustment and relocation, it will also help to equalize the cost of living between Detroit and Alabama.

Next up is "card check (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_check)."

[Gan]

I think this says it all (make sure to read the fine print):

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9995/bigthreepv9.png

Awesome advertisement. :)

[TheWitch]

Bullshit, Clyde.

Bull freakin shit.

Just like they had rules and stipulations and specifications for the banks?

Yea, that's worked out really well so far.

That ad hits the nail on it's head, painfully.

Who's next in line, Dupont? Phizer? Dell?

[ClydeR]

Just like they had rules and stipulations and specifications for the banks?

You raise an excellent issue. As explained in the Washington Post article quoted below, the President and Congress tried to place restrictions on white collar pay in the $700 billion bank bailout bill, but they could not possibly have known that they would end giving money to the banks, instead of purchasing the troubled securities.

They didn't make the same mistake with the blue collar auto workers.




Congress wanted to guarantee that the $700 billion financial bailout would limit the eye-popping pay of Wall Street executives, so lawmakers included a mechanism for reviewing executive compensation and penalizing firms that break the rules.

But at the last minute, the Bush administration insisted on a one-sentence change to the provision, congressional aides said. The change stipulated that the penalty would apply only to firms that received bailout funds by selling troubled assets to the government in an auction, which was the way the Treasury Department had said it planned to use the money.

Now, however, the small change looks more like a giant loophole, according to lawmakers and legal experts. In a reversal, the Bush administration has not used auctions for any of the $335 billion committed so far from the rescue package, nor does it plan to use them in the future. Lawmakers and legal experts say the change has effectively repealed the only enforcement mechanism in the law dealing with lavish pay for top executives.

More... (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/14/AR2008121402670_pf.html)

[crb]

The ad is wrong. Obviously it is a joke, but it is making fun of the wrong things.

I live in Michigan here in a GM town, but I'm against any bailout, the companies are poorly mismanaged, and while their financial health has only been national news lately, it has been part of our local news forever, so watching the local news at night for years I've seem them be poorly mismanaged and lose money. Making fun of them for those issues is fairgame.

The quality issue is not. That issue was retired a decade ago, continuing to raise it really isn't fair to the companies, it it seems cruel.

The 2008 Motortrend car of the year was a Cadillac (CTS), one of the most awarded cars of the year, very high JD Power Rankings (including best overall midsized car), was a Chevy (Malibu).

When you actually look at ratings, the US manufacturers are equivalent to foreign now, they didn't used to be, but they are now. That stigma though just hasn't gone away.

[Parkbandit]

Bullshit, Clyde.

Bull freakin shit.

Just like they had rules and stipulations and specifications for the banks?

Yea, that's worked out really well so far.

That ad hits the nail on it's head, painfully.

Who's next in line, Dupont? Phizer? Dell?


...

You are an idiot of you don't realize that ClydeR is satire. It was funny the first week.. now I just don't bother reading his stupidity.

[Gan]

The ad is wrong. Obviously it is a joke, but it is making fun of the wrong things.

I live in Michigan here in a GM town, but I'm against any bailout, the companies are poorly mismanaged, and while their financial health has only been national news lately, it has been part of our local news forever, so watching the local news at night for years I've seem them be poorly mismanaged and lose money. Making fun of them for those issues is fairgame.

The quality issue is not. That issue was retired a decade ago, continuing to raise it really isn't fair to the companies, it it seems cruel.

The 2008 Motortrend car of the year was a Cadillac (CTS), one of the most awarded cars of the year, very high JD Power Rankings (including best overall midsized car), was a Chevy (Malibu).

When you actually look at ratings, the US manufacturers are equivalent to foreign now, they didn't used to be, but they are now. That stigma though just hasn't gone away.

What is the ratio of Honda cars vs. Chevy cars on the road today? Toyota cars vs. Chevy cars?

Honda and Toyota build cars that people want to drive. Chevrolet, Chrysler, and Ford build cars that they think people want to drive.

Huge difference. And the market has demonstrated that point, to a painful degree.

[crb]

What is the ratio of Honda cars vs. Chevy cars on the road today? Toyota cars vs. Chevy cars?

Honda and Toyota build cars that people want to drive. Chevrolet, Chrysler, and Ford build cars that they think people want to drive.

Huge difference. And the market has demonstrated that point, to a painful degree.
That isn't a quality issue, that is a mismanagement issue.

And besides, up until the Gas spike there was big interest still in suvs and light trucks, so much so that Toyota, Honda, VW, and even Porche all entered the SUV (and or light truck) segments. It seems silly to blame the US automakers for building SUVs while ignoring their small cars, while at the same time ignoring the foreign maker's SUVs, and lauding their small cars.

And I'm going to guess that there are more GM cars on the road than the others, I've not seen a figure of course, but GM has sold more cars than any other maker in recent times (an average of say the last 6 years) (not to mention historical times), so unless your point is people have stopped driving them wholesale, I'm guessing they have got the most on the road. That is globally by the way. If you're just talking about US, GM has a further lead.

[Gan]

I'll look up some numbers on car sales in America for the large manufacturers to see whats been selling the most of in the car market.

Fact is, foreign manufacturers have been making better and more desireable cars than domestic. I'll dig up some numbers to further iterate my point in a bit.

**Actually, I stand corrected. Seems there are more domestic cars being sold up to the data point I could find with the BTS data.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll102/learningtewfly/Cardata.jpg

http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/2007/html/table_01_16.html