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nub
10-29-2008, 10:38 PM
My little brother sent me this article, though for some reason it is a little hard for me to understand.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122385651698727257.html


One of Barack Obama's most potent campaign claims is that he'll cut taxes for no less than 95% of "working families." He's even promising to cut taxes enough that the government's tax share of GDP will be no more than 18.2% -- which is lower than it is today.
[Review & Outlook] AP

It's a clever pitch, because it lets him pose as a middle-class tax cutter while disguising that he's also proposing one of the largest tax increases ever on the other 5%. But how does he conjure this miracle, especially since more than a third of all Americans already pay no income taxes at all? There are several sleights of hand, but the most creative is to redefine the meaning of "tax cut."

For the Obama Democrats, a tax cut is no longer letting you keep more of what you earn. In their lexicon, a tax cut includes tens of billions of dollars in government handouts that are disguised by the phrase "tax credit." Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand no fewer than seven such credits for individuals:
[Review & Outlook]

- A $500 tax credit ($1,000 a couple) to "make work pay" that phases out at income of $75,000 for individuals and $150,000 per couple.

- A $4,000 tax credit for college tuition.

- A 10% mortgage interest tax credit (on top of the existing mortgage interest deduction and other housing subsidies).

- A "savings" tax credit of 50% up to $1,000.

- An expansion of the earned-income tax credit that would allow single workers to receive as much as $555 a year, up from $175 now, and give these workers up to $1,110 if they are paying child support.

- A child care credit of 50% up to $6,000 of expenses a year.

- A "clean car" tax credit of up to $7,000 on the purchase of certain vehicles.

Here's the political catch. All but the clean car credit would be "refundable," which is Washington-speak for the fact that you can receive these checks even if you have no income-tax liability. In other words, they are an income transfer -- a federal check -- from taxpayers to nontaxpayers. Once upon a time we called this "welfare," or in George McGovern's 1972 campaign a "Demogrant." Mr. Obama's genius is to call it a tax cut.

The Tax Foundation estimates that under the Obama plan 63 million Americans, or 44% of all tax filers, would have no income tax liability and most of those would get a check from the IRS each year. The Heritage Foundation's Center for Data Analysis estimates that by 2011, under the Obama plan, an additional 10 million filers would pay zero taxes while cashing checks from the IRS.

The total annual expenditures on refundable "tax credits" would rise over the next 10 years by $647 billion to $1.054 trillion, according to the Tax Policy Center. This means that the tax-credit welfare state would soon cost four times actual cash welfare. By redefining such income payments as "tax credits," the Obama campaign also redefines them away as a tax share of GDP. Presto, the federal tax burden looks much smaller than it really is.

The political left defends "refundability" on grounds that these payments help to offset the payroll tax. And that was at least plausible when the only major refundable credit was the earned-income tax credit. Taken together, however, these tax credit payments would exceed payroll levies for most low-income workers.

It is also true that John McCain proposes a refundable tax credit -- his $5,000 to help individuals buy health insurance. We've written before that we prefer a tax deduction for individual health care, rather than a credit. But the big difference with Mr. Obama is that Mr. McCain's proposal replaces the tax subsidy for employer-sponsored health insurance that individuals don't now receive if they buy on their own. It merely changes the nature of the tax subsidy; it doesn't create a new one.

There's another catch: Because Mr. Obama's tax credits are phased out as incomes rise, they impose a huge "marginal" tax rate increase on low-income workers. The marginal tax rate refers to the rate on the next dollar of income earned. As the nearby chart illustrates, the marginal rate for millions of low- and middle-income workers would spike as they earn more income.

Some families with an income of $40,000 could lose up to 40 cents in vanishing credits for every additional dollar earned from working overtime or taking a new job. As public policy, this is contradictory. The tax credits are sold in the name of "making work pay," but in practice they can be a disincentive to working harder, especially if you're a lower-income couple getting raises of $1,000 or $2,000 a year. One mystery -- among many -- of the McCain campaign is why it has allowed Mr. Obama's 95% illusion to go unanswered.

Daniel
10-29-2008, 10:40 PM
What exactly don't you understand?

nub
10-29-2008, 10:50 PM
What exactly don't you understand?

Why Obama is going to going to raise taxes but cut the amount that goes to the government.

Daniel
10-29-2008, 10:52 PM
He's only going to raise certain taxes.

The US is on a graduated tax system. So, if he raises taxes on a higher bracket it doesn't neccessarily mean that it raises for everyone.

Jayvn
10-29-2008, 10:54 PM
that looks like money i'd get.... too bad i don't care to vote... being that mine wouldn't matter anyway. how many votes does florida count for again?

g++
10-29-2008, 10:55 PM
A $4,000 tax credit for college tuition.

WooHoo 4 grand

Daniel
10-29-2008, 10:56 PM
that looks like money i'd get.... too bad i don't care to vote... being that mine wouldn't matter anyway. how many votes does florida count for again?

Alot. Your vote counts a lot actually.

A lot more than mine.

g++
10-29-2008, 10:58 PM
Alot. Your vote counts a lot actually.

A lot more than mine.

Yah voting in Baltimore is also quite boring. A couple years ago they could not accept republican votes for a few hours because the closest Republican electoral worker or whatever they call people that certify votes had to drive in from another County.

nub
10-29-2008, 11:02 PM
My parents didn't help me with college, I worked two jobs, and got scholarships because of grades. Why can't everyone else do this? I do not want to pay more taxes to have someone go to college.

Daniel
10-29-2008, 11:04 PM
My parents didn't help me with college, I worked two jobs, and got scholarships because of grades. Why can't everyone else do this? I do not want to pay more taxes to have someone go to college.

Congrats?

I did my associates while I was active duty military and finished 6 college courses in Iraq while doing combat operations.

Just because you do something doesn't mean everyone else can or should have to go through all that.

Jayvn
10-29-2008, 11:05 PM
it would be awesome..if you know...every vote counted....as a vote... i mean..don't we have the technology to do this... instead of..this state...eh..5 votes...this state..10.... w/e... i guess that's how a pres can win the popularity vote...and not win. I'd still rather have colbert

nub
10-29-2008, 11:07 PM
Congrats?

I did my associates while I was active duty military and finished 6 college courses in Iraq while doing combat operations.

Just because you do something doesn't mean everyone else can or should have to go through all that.

Why congratulate me? I am sure you know I was not looking for that. But yes, just because I do something, I feel everyone else can do it. And because I did it I don't feel like I SHOULD have to have my tax dollars go to their education.

g++
10-29-2008, 11:11 PM
My parents didn't help me with college, I worked two jobs, and got scholarships because of grades. Why can't everyone else do this? I do not want to pay more taxes to have someone go to college.


Im doing a second degree at night. I got my first degree the same way you did, doesnt mean Im not going to take 4 grand if someones just giving it away.

Jayvn
10-29-2008, 11:11 PM
I'd much rather give 4 grand to someone going through college to be something more than a baby machine with no job...than to the baby machine with no job complaining they dont get enough free ebt monies to go buy even more pepsi and potato chips with...

shit i dont even mind people getting food stamps so much..i just wish they would limit it to... food.... it pisses me off so much to see people getting free junk food that i want to eat too...

Tsa`ah
10-29-2008, 11:49 PM
Why congratulate me? I am sure you know I was not looking for that. But yes, just because I do something, I feel everyone else can do it. And because I did it I don't feel like I SHOULD have to have my tax dollars go to their education.

There's absolutely no reason why anyone able to get into college shouldn't be able to attend due to monetary constraints.

Congratulations on working your way through college ... lots of us have. The difference is that we acknowledge that many are unable to do so.

The tax credit, 4 grand for college, isn't hand out ... you have to work for it.

Daniel
10-30-2008, 12:03 AM
Why congratulate me? I am sure you know I was not looking for that. But yes, just because I do something, I feel everyone else can do it. And because I did it I don't feel like I SHOULD have to have my tax dollars go to their education.

Really? Could have fooled me. My point was merely that you shouldn't judge a person's situation based upon your own. You could do it with your parents not helping out. Could you have done it if you had to take care of your parents? Or if something else had happened?

The issue in simple terms is that it shouldn't be a dick measuring content to get an education. If you're willing to work for it, you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get it.

I think of it as a matter of national security. The better educated our people are, the people we do in the world.

Parkbandit
10-30-2008, 08:17 AM
Really? Could have fooled me. My point was merely that you shouldn't judge a person's situation based upon your own. You could do it with your parents not helping out. Could you have done it if you had to take care of your parents? Or if something else had happened?

The issue in simple terms is that it shouldn't be a dick measuring content to get an education. If you're willing to work for it, you shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get it.

I think of it as a matter of national security. The better educated our people are, the people we do in the world.


:rofl:

Jesus, this post is chuck full of irony. I wonder if you can make that into a bumper sticker:

"The better educated our people are, the people we do in the world"

Because that expressed the exact feelings I had about this handout.

Daniel
10-30-2008, 09:09 AM
Lol yea. My bad. You know what I meant.

Gan
10-30-2008, 09:38 AM
:rofl:

Jesus, this post is chuck full of irony. I wonder if you can make that into a bumper sticker:

"The better educated our people are, the people we do in the world"

Because that expressed the exact feelings I had about this handout.

Yea, I saw that this morning and just chalked it up to who posted it.

After a while, pointing out shit like that is like kicking a puppy.

Parkbandit
10-30-2008, 09:51 AM
It's definately signature worthy...

"I are edumacated real goodly"

NocturnalRob
10-30-2008, 10:13 AM
Lol yea. My bad. You know what I meant.

it's cool. i'm assuming when Daniel wrote this he was 8 J&Cs in and balls deep in some co-ed, typing with one hand and balancing his drink with the other.

I, for one, applaud his ability to multi-task. Next time however, I'd appreciate pics.

Daniel
10-30-2008, 10:22 AM
it's cool. i'm assuming when Daniel wrote this he was 8 J&Cs in and balls deep in some co-ed, typing with one hand and balancing his drink with the other.

I, for one, applaud his ability to multi-task. Next time however, I'd appreciate pics.

Lol.

When are you coming down to DC again?

TheEschaton
10-30-2008, 11:53 AM
It's a clever pitch, because it lets him pose as a middle-class tax cutter while disguising that he's also proposing one of the largest tax increases ever on the other 5%. But how does he conjure this miracle, especially since more than a third of all Americans already pay no income taxes at all? There are several sleights of hand, but the most creative is to redefine the meaning of "tax cut."


It also requires redefining "raising taxes" to "rolling back idiotic, unadvisable tax cuts made by a retarded president to what they were before."

-TheE-