Is Barack Obama Buying the Election

[crb]

In 2006 the gubernatorial election here in Michigan had a chorus of liberals chanting "You can't buy Michigan [Dick] Devos" because he had far more money than shitty incumbant Granholm.

But I'm sure those people will be happy to vote for Obama.

Most grating is how the media just parrots for him. He says McCain is negative, people echo it, and McCain - not comfortable in attacking (he really isn't, he isn't an attack dog, he is uncomfortable with lies, and half truths, and calling people out on the same - you can tell it in his debate performances - it isn't his style) doesn't do enough to address it, he just takes it.

Fact is Obama is running far more negative ads, more "swift boat" 527 groups are on the left than the right, and outspending at a 4:1 ratio.

I also feel the need to call out liberal hypocrites who have repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly, criticized the Bush administration for secrecy and going back on their words, lying.

Barack Obama lied about public financing, he lied about it, blatantly. His slick lawyering word parsing might give you an excuse to defend him and say he didn't lie, but I'm sorry, Bill Clinton did have sexual relations with that woman, and Barack Obama did say he would accept public financing.

Now Barack Obama refuses to release data on his contributors, their names. John McCain has, Obama refuses. How is that for openness and new politics?

We already know he has a large number of donors using fake names, it is theorized that people are donating over the limit, or that foreigners are making up significant amount of his donations, but we don't know, and we can't know, because he won't disclose his records.

What happens if after the election we find out that there was rampant fraud and illegal activity in his campaign financing? Nothing. Barack Obama wins on the back of fraudulent donations and no one gets punished. Why would they? Barack Obama will only issue pardons (pardon himself, pardon his manager, pardon his donors), and he will not instruct his justice department to investigate anyways. If not examined until after the election there will be absolutely no consequence for this behavior.

Liberals may be happy with an Obama victory, but how could anyone be happy with fraud? Because you know, there will be other elections, and do you want to start a precedent where winning candidates can receive illegal donations with impunity because they'll end up holding all the cards? There is no post election disqualification for fraud. If you win, you win, no matter how you did this.

Remember this in the future if a Republican does the same, I'm sure you'll be outraged, and don't forget the person who made it all possible.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/the_buying_of_the_presidency_2.html

[Warriorbird]

The disconnect you have with reality is amazing. McCain not running negative ads? Ha ha.

How can anyone be happy with fraud?

I'm sure you were happy as fuck when Bush won in 2000. And Republicans never ever commit voter registration fraud!

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-fraud20-2008oct20,0,3842357.story

Are the Republicans rigging the election? That's an actual arrest.

[crb]

Did I say McCain was not running negative ads?

http://www.wilddamntexan.com/kids/demotivators/Strawman.jpg

[Warriorbird]

He's 'uncomfortable with it.'

Bullshit.

He's hired the guy who spread the rumor that he had a black bastard kid in 2000 to work for him in South Carolina.

You've got all the wankery ('kill him' chants about Obama, Osama jeering, 'he's a terorist') going on at rallies. You've got 'the pro American parts of America' 'the real Virginia' 'Northern Virginia is communists.'

He hired Karl Rove's protege to run his campaign.

He's 'uncomfortable.' Riiight.

Throw a few more 'socialism' and 'anti-American' allegations in the mix and you'll have Joe McCarthy.

[crb]

You're such a hypocrite.

1. Yes, he is uncomfortable with it. You'd have to be blind to not see it in the debates, he doesn't have that killer instinct. Then again, I'm not surprised you can't see it, you've never been bright.

2. You're really going to bring up someone saying "kill him" at a rally? The Secret Service investigated that and found the story to be false, no one said that. As for calling him a terrorist? Well - have you ever seen a left wing protest? Ever? I mean.. you're going to sit there calling the kettle black with an army of pots on your side burning Bush and McCain in effigy and saying the most horrible things you can imagine about Palin and her family?

Of course McCain's campaign has run negative ads, that doesn't make him comfortable with it. He doesn't have the negative killer instinct Barack has. He is just old fashioned.

[Warriorbird]

Neither of them has 'killer instinct.' but they both seem quite comfortable with negative campaigns. For a long while most of McCain's push was negative...Obama's evening the gap now but that doesn't remove the existence of McCain's tremendous degree of negativity. I'd say he seems more comfortable with the negative than positive by far if you judge him on ads alone.

Obama did well in the debates (despite being a shitty debater) by being defensive. If McCain had went on positives (like he claimed he would from the start) I think his performances would've been much stronger.

The 'kill him' bit being false is an entertaining idea...despite being on Youtube. I think you're referring to the guys who claimed they had a plot against Obama but were mainly just caught with a ton of meth.

[Tsa`ah]

That this thread now has 7 posts, including my own, is simply amazing considering the guy that created it.

I've never read a bigger wall of bullshit anywhere ... except from Mabus, PB gets lost after a line and gives up on long posts after extended attempts.

[Warriorbird]

I have. Virilneus's official posts. Its refreshing that we don't have to play nice on the PC.

[Amber]

What justification do you have for saying that Obama has negative killer instincts? Personally, I've seen FAR more negative commercials run by the Republicans than the Democrats.

I do, however, feel that Obama needs to release his list of campaign contributors.

[Warriorbird]

I don't think a list of private citizens need to be made available for McCain robo calls.

[crb]

Neither of them has 'killer instinct.' but they both seem quite comfortable with negative campaigns. For a long while most of McCain's push was negative...Obama's evening the gap now but that doesn't remove the existence of McCain's tremendous degree of negativity. I'd say he seems more comfortable with the negative than positive by far if you judge him on ads alone.

Obama did well in the debates (despite being a shitty debater) by being defensive. If McCain had went on positives (like he claimed he would from the start) I think his performances would've been much stronger.

The 'kill him' bit being false is an entertaining idea...despite being on Youtube. I think you're referring to the guys who claimed they had a plot against Obama but were mainly just caught with a ton of meth.
I suppose you've never seen an Obama rally? The snide sarcasm?

And so you're going to say the Secret Service is lying when they say they found no corroboration of the "kill him" remark? And in anycase, are you going to admit that there as psychos on each side? There is this website called The Daily Kos - go read it.

[Warriorbird]

Ha ha. Psycho?

No more than Drudge or Red State.

Maybe you just get 'snide sarcasm' because you're hopelessly biased. I don't exactly get how calling Obama is a socialist is all that inspirational or positive.

[crb]

What justification do you have for saying that Obama has negative killer instincts? Personally, I've seen FAR more negative commercials run by the Republicans than the Democrats.

I do, however, feel that Obama needs to release his list of campaign contributors.
Then you have a selective memory, it is a fact Obama has run more negative ads. It is a fact that liberal 527s have outspent conservative ones. Obama may not have to report his donors, but he still has to report his expenditures, this is all public record.

And why does Obama have killer instincts? Watch or go to one of his rallies. He does not shirk from attacks, he is a very savvy politician, he walks so fine a line that he can spend more money on negative ads than any politician in history, and yet still convince people his shit doesn't stink. He is amazingly skilled at politics, and the killer instinct to find that chink in his opponents armor and exploit it mercilessly is part of that skillset.

McCain is not nearly as good, and even when he hires people who are good, he isn't comfortable in the roll they present to him. He isn't comfortable in the roll of a being a full throated partisan. The right has been egging him on, trying to get him to play hardball, get aggressive, but he hasn't. His strongest attack on Obama at the last debate was "The American people deserve to know the extent of their relationship." and that is pretty weak.

[Tsa`ah]

I do, however, feel that Obama needs to release his list of campaign contributors.

Doubt that will happen until Nov ... because it possibly has names on it like Ayers.

McCain only wants the association game to be a one way street though ... he doesn't want the name William Timmons brought up.

[crb]

All of McCain donors are on public record.

How can Obama campaign for more transparency in government and yet refuse to release his donor rolls? Are they filled with fictitious names and fraud?

[Parkbandit]

That this thread now has 7 posts, including my own, is simply amazing considering the guy that created it.

I've never read a bigger wall of bullshit anywhere ... except from Mabus, PB gets lost after a line and gives up on long posts after extended attempts.

LOL all this from a "guy" who claims people hump his leg if they post about him and who still holds the record for the most words in a single post without really saying anything intelligent. Holy Shit4brains!

You have outdone yourself on this post Humpy.

Of course people like you have no problem that Obama has spent OVER a half BILLION dollars... But claimed Bush was buying his election.

200 million dollars is a pretty large amount of cash not to disclose..

[Warriorbird]

Classy. He surrounds himself with positive people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVFWahLTdUo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsps2bNOpPs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjY8A5IFYbg

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1008/559004.html

Here's Joe McCarthy... blast from the past to illustrate where the McCain campaign gets their strategy from.

'He associates with terrorists!'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYic-W9wkhc

McCain hiring the guy who said he had a black bastard child in 2000

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/mccain-hires-go.html

[Tsa`ah]

I suppose you've never seen an Obama rally? The snide sarcasm?

Nothing of the caliber of any Palin speech ... but yes. I was in Springfield, old State capitol, at the rail right of the podium when Obama announced Biden. I attended a primary rally and I've attended another GE rally.

Anger, fear, hate ... not part of any.


And so you're going to say the Secret Service is lying when they say they found no corroboration of the "kill him" remark? And in anycase, are you going to admit that there as psychos on each side? There is this website called The Daily Kos - go read it.

Yes, because someone is going to tell the secret service that they yelled "kill him". I'm sorry ... but the secret service saying they can't corroborate isn't a lie. As for psychos ... that clearly appears to be GOP territory.

[Tsa`ah]

All of McCain donors are on public record.

I'm sure it's a quick read.


How can Obama campaign for more transparency in government and yet refuse to release his donor rolls? Are they filled with fictitious names and fraud?

I'm sure when the list is compiled, it makes War and Peace look like a comic book. Something is bound to get through ... the significance of those that get through are bound to be pretty insignificant.

And yes ... you just did that. William Timmons was mentioned and you pretended it wasn't there.

[Tsa`ah]

...

Did you say something short bus?

[Parkbandit]

B-b-b-b-b-but the Republicans!!

Right on queue Assliana

[crb]

Another talking point. Obama is running more negative ads in absolute terms, simply because he's running more ads, period. But as a percentage of his ads? I don't think I've seen a single McCain ad that didn't focus on attacking Obama, whereas I've seen plenty of simply pro-Obama ads.

However you choose to dress up your argument, there's a stark contrast in negativity between the two campaigns, and that perception is precisely the opposite of what you're claiming.

Splitting hairs and DNC talking points.

Because Obama has enough money to both run the most attack ads in history while still running some positive ads makes it all okay?



Back to the campaign contributions--you're essentially arguing that "because he hasn't released full disclosure of his campaign donors, he must be hiding either illegal or illegitimate donors."

Why does it not surprise me that a hyper-reactionary would take the stance of "guilty until proven innocent"? Exactly where is your evidence of wrongdoing? Upon what basis are you coming to this conclusion or even suspicion? I know it shocks and appalls you to think that people with money--the people oh-so-at-risk to a Democratic victory according to the so-called "right"--would donate their money so the REST of their money can be taxed away.

Look for facts first and make judgments afterwards. Not leap to a conclusion before you know anything.

My dear, you need to look at the facts. he has released donor information for those who gave more than $200 and there is rampant fraud. Mr "Good Will" for instance has donated $17,000 that we know about. asfdsahj has donated. As has mickey mouse.

But I'd be more than happy to withhold judgement until his financial records are released... when might that be? Should I hold my breath?

[Parkbandit]

Did you say something short bus?

I guess if it's not written in crayon, you don't understand it. Tell you what Shit4brains, send me a PM and I'll dumb it down to your 2nd grade level.

[crb]

And AShliana, you have to be naive to think there aren't business interests with big money that have bought Obama's protection. Like for instance... Fannie & Freddie... or labor unions... or personal injury lawyers, or the environment lobby.

Obama brings on Animal Farm. Of course the pigs are going to donate, it doesn't make them more equal than others, nor their system a good one. One of the biggest myths of socialism is that there are no winners and no one who stands to benefit. Big government benefits a whole lot of interest groups, whether or not it is good for the country as a whole or the economy is another matter entirely.

[Warriorbird]

So... going to go on a socialist hunt now, Khariz style? I hear bunkers are going cheap.

As repeated ad nauseum... the Republican throw money in the air system is just as bad... if not worse.

[Tsa`ah]

One of the biggest myths of socialism is that there are no winners and no one who stands to benefit. Big government benefits a whole lot of interest groups, whether or not it is good for the country as a whole or the economy is another matter entirely.

Actually ... I think the biggest myth of socialism is that it leads to communism.

[Parkbandit]

So... going to go on a socialist hunt now, Khariz style? I hear bunkers are going cheap.

As repeated ad nauseum... the Republican throw money in the air system is just as bad... if not worse.

I'll let Assliana address this as it's an obvious pet peeve of "his".

[crazymage]

Republicans rigged the ALCS.

[Mabus]

One of the most troubling things about the fund raising is that as much as $63 million dollars may have been donated in foreign currency.

The estimates are that between $12.8 million to $63 million (37,000 Obama donations) were foreign donations.

This does not even count the enormous amount of donors giving over $4,300 total, nor the instances of fictitious names and employers given with donations (Mr. Doodad Pro and Mr. Good Will, for instance, who both liste their emplyers as "Love You"). Nor does it count the "Obama Online Store", which has seen large foreign purchases.

Nor does it count the number of "over donations", which some people have admitted to not receiving refunds on.

A query of FEC records a few minutes ago showed:

Individuals Who Gave To: OBAMA, BARACK
Sorted By Transaction Type Then Last Name
Committee(s) Used In This Query:

OBAMA FOR AMERICA

The query you have chosen matched 424330 individual contributions.
So 37,000 out of 424,330 donors (nearly 9%) are potentially foreign.

You do the math.

All in all, it makes this campaign have the largest unreported, and potentially illegal, campaign financing on record.

[Audriana]

OP

It sounds like you're more frustrated with the system of politics than Obama himself.

[Parkbandit]

Seriously, though. This topic is about the election. There are two parties (or more) in our presidential elections, PB. Who would've thought you'd have to be told this, too? Especially since Crb's initial post included comments on both. :clap:

Since when isn't a political topic really about two or more political parties and philosophies? I hope that in some small way, I've shown you how utterly stupid your "b-b-b-b-b-but Democrats" retort has been and how utterly hypocritical you've been to use it.

Isn't it amazing how you've never criticised a liberal/democrat for using that 'defense'? Ever?

It's as dumb as Tsa'ah's "OMG U R HUMPING MY LEG!" whenever someone responds to his stupidity. Don't be a Tsa'ah..

[Daniel]

Quick!!!

Someone call the Waaaammbulance!!!

[RichardCranium]

D is a terrorist.

(Negative rep this one bitch!)

[crazymage]

Evan Longoria is a terrorist.

[Parkbandit]

Republicans rigged the ALCS.


:rofl:

"Bitter party of ONE, your table is ready.."

GO RAYS!

[crazymage]

Parkbandit likes penis.

[TheEschaton]

Then you have a selective memory, it is a fact Obama has run more negative ads. It is a fact that liberal 527s have outspent conservative ones. Obama may not have to report his donors, but he still has to report his expenditures, this is all public record.

It's not a negative ad in the pejorative sense if you are addressing the issues of a candidate, as opposed to the candidate himself. All Obama's ads that I have seen are, "John McCain's policy on X is (insert one of the following: batshit crazy/laughable/wrong)."

John McCain's negative ads, on the other hand, attack the character of Obama far more than Obama ever says about McCain himself.

-TheE-

[Tsa`ah]

William Timmons

[Parkbandit]

Parkbandit likes penis.


Tsa'ah?

[Parkbandit]

It's not a negative ad in the pejorative sense if you are addressing the issues of a candidate, as opposed to the candidate himself. All Obama's ads that I have seen are, "John McCain's policy on X is (insert one of the following: batshit crazy/laughable/wrong)."

John McCain's negative ads, on the other hand, attack the character of Obama far more than Obama ever says about McCain himself.

-TheE-

You obviously don't live in a battleground state.. Obama's negative ads are on constantly in Florida.

Just because you've not seen any doesn't mean they aren't out there. I'm sure you can google them up on Youtube if you wanted to.

[Ignot]

You obviously don't live in a battleground state.. Obama's negative ads are on constantly in Florida.

Just because you've not seen any doesn't mean they aren't out there. I'm sure you can google them up on Youtube if you wanted to.

Yeah i have seen some of those Obama commercials. I was disappointed. I guess that's politics. I do love the people who do the narrations though. They make it sound like the other party is out to destroy the world.

[TheEschaton]

I've seen some of the commercials for NH, which broadcast here for some reason, but I agree, I probably haven't seen the brunt of them. Care to link any particularly egregious ones?

[Stretch]

I think the war in Iraq has pretty much proven that the ends justify the means.

[Parkbandit]

I've seen some of the commercials for NH, which broadcast here for some reason, but I agree, I probably haven't seen the brunt of them. Care to link any particularly egregious ones?

I see them on TV, not on Youtube. Hell, I see them on TV every hour of every day here it seems... I can't wait until after the election JUST so they stop already.