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ClydeR
10-14-2008, 07:24 PM
As a salve for hard economic times, Obama proposed tax relief yesterday for retirement plan (401k accounts and most IRA accounts) withdrawals. Today, McCain one-upped him and offered even more relief. Although the issue is complicated, I think their two approaches to the issue demonstrate how they would balance the issues of fairness and equality in the tax laws.

Based on my reading of a single article in US News (http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/retirement/2008/10/14/what-obama-and-mccains-new-plans-mean-for-you.html), I have determined that the best way to break down their proposals is by the age of retirement plan participants. Below I summarize their proposed treatment of those below age 59.5 years, those between 59.5 and 70.5, and those above 70.5.


Obama
Under 59.5 -- Penalty free (the normal penalty is 10%) withdrawal through 2009 of lesser of 15% of account balance or $10,000, but still subject to normal income tax rates.

Between 59.5 and 70.5 -- Nothing.

Above 70.5 -- Tax-free withdrawals up to the amount of the "required minimum distribution." (People over 70.5 are required to take a minimum amount from their retirement account each year based on their life expectancy.)


McCain
Under 59.5 -- Nothing.

Between 59.5 and 70.5 -- The first $50,000 of withdrawals each year will be taxed at a 10% income tax rate through the end of 2009, instead of the taxpayer's normal marginal income tax rate.

Above 70.5 -- In addition to the $50,000 for those in the above group, those above age 70.5 will be exempt from the requirement to take a "required minimum distribution" each year.

It's not easy to sift through those complicated proposals and discern the candidates' philosophy. Don't tax your brain. Let me do it for you.

Obama wants most of the benefit to go to people, including young people who may have lost their jobs, who both a) have modest balances in their retirement plans and b) don't have a lot of other income. McCain wants everybody who has reached retirement age to get a sizable benefit. The difference between the two is that Obama's plan unfairly advantages poor people, when the reward should go to good productive people who have contributed the most to society and, consequently, have large balances in their retirement plans.

RichardCranium
10-14-2008, 07:25 PM
As of today I've lost 63.8% of my 401k.

Parkbandit
10-14-2008, 07:27 PM
It's a horrible plan out of both camps.. encouraging people to withdraw from their 401K.

Trouble
10-14-2008, 07:32 PM
It's a horrible plan out of both camps.. encouraging people to withdraw from their 401K.

Agreed. Even if people cash in their 401k holdings in panic, they should still keep the money in the 401k. Social Security isn't gonna cut it.

BriarFox
10-14-2008, 07:37 PM
The difference between the two is that Obama's plan unfairly advantages poor people, when the reward should go to good productive people who have contributed the most to society and, consequently, have large balances in their retirement plans.

You were more or less making sense until you got to that statement.

Ignot
10-14-2008, 08:10 PM
The difference between the two is that Obama's plan unfairly advantages poor people, when the reward should go to good productive people who have contributed the most to society and, consequently, have large balances in their retirement plans.

Yeah this is a bit ridiculous to say but whatever.

I have been seeing ALOT of early withdrawals lately. Its good to be addressed but the penalties are their to discourage. I don't like any of the proposals. If you need the money then take it but your going to get penalized and taxed.

Obama's plan seems to want to help those who need the help but it strongly discourages changing life style and saving.

McCain's tax cutting on withdrawals is very big and clearly designed for wealth transfer.

Once again, Obama wants to help the middle class and McCain wants to help the wealthy but both of these proposals suck ass IMO.

NocturnalRob
10-14-2008, 08:12 PM
It's a horrible plan out of both camps.. encouraging people to withdraw from their 401K.

qft, although i do think that the closer you are to 59.5, the more it begins to make sense.

Ignot
10-14-2008, 08:43 PM
Between 59.5 and 70.5 -- The first $50,000 of withdrawals each year will be taxed at a 10% income tax rate through the end of 2009, instead of the taxpayer's normal marginal income tax rate.




I just can't stop thinking about this.

Kembal
10-15-2008, 12:03 AM
....I don't like both proposals either. Can't you just take a loan against the 401k? (which means you end up paying interest to yourself, inherently not a bad thing.)

Gan
10-15-2008, 12:20 AM
I'm not impressed with either proposal.